Should youth teams be judged on results or # of eventual senior team players?

[palos]

Observer made an interesting post in a nex thread that got me thinking...

Elan apart from the fact Anton as coach, do you believe the National youth programs U15 and U17 should be about results? I ask because I was looking at the 2001 U17 where France won against Nigeria. As far as I undersatnd the stars of the tournament for those two teams are no where to be found on their Senior teams. In my eyes they have lost out on a generation. Where are Brown (Nigeria), Pongolo, Le Telec or Meghni today. As you quite rightly indicated, Spain has Iniesta, Argentina Macherano and Tevez, Brazil Diego etc.

What is the purpose of youth teams?  Is it to win tournaments?  Or is it first and foremost about development with a mind to be the pipeline for the senior national team and having players that are prepared to play at that level?

I think it's the latter.  If it is, shouldn't the coaching at this level (youth level) be THE MOST IMPORTANT factor in player development?  Ideally when a player gets to the senior team level (the pinnacle by the way), they should have the fundamentals down pat.  The senior team coach should not be having to teach players spacing, organization, playing off the ball etc.  This should already be there.

So with T&T in particular, what does the fact that we qualify for a U 17 or a U 20 WC really say?  How prepared are our players for making that "step up" to the senior national team?  Is it really a "step up"?

[Coach]

At some point with proper development you will get result, also winning at the international does bring some recognition to your country players, coaches and their development program.

[Observer]

The reason I brought this up is because the coaches of Spain, Holland, France, Italy and Germany in a recent UEFA conference on youth football, played down the results at the early ages. They basically said its easy to cheat at these ages and select the biggest and fastest players, get results, but those players never make it to the top. Italy and Holland played down the entire significance of this tournament. Now UEFA has quite a structure for International development, with tournaments at 15-16-17.

[Arazi]

i think youth teams are all about the experience gained..sometimes players develop a chemistry that carries on to senior team..for example (portugal's golden generation)..it helps the natioanl team of that generation develop an identity...
or sometimes they don't grow to their potential..the whole point I believe is so that they learn the concept of or importance of representing their countries...

i don't think it should be based on results or senior player produced..because it's near impossible to predict who is going to develop or who's going to stay on form for instance maxi lopez was rated higher than tevez in that tourney and look where their careers went...who gets in an accident (nkosi blackman)..i think it's about developing

Fernando Torres and Pablo Zabaleta also played in U-17 world cup in 2001 btw..

As for those players their international careers may not be over..look at the position ppl like pongolle and le tallec played..look at who they were up against...henry, trezeguet, cisse..
not exactly the easiest team for the youths to break into..so it may be a bit harsh to call thier careers done as yet...

[elan]

This is my reply to Observer in the other thread. Will go into depth later.



I think the U-14 - U17 should be about development and exposing the players at a younger age to "different" football. Obviously you want  to win, but that should be about 3rd down the list. The idea at these youth level should be to continually identify and attempt to push the better, best players on to the next level.

Now the U-20s results should be paired with development at the top. I say this cause there will be the stars who can cope with all the pressure, but there would still be those players who chronologically (age wise) and physically there, but mentally still need assistance in getting to that level where the pressure does not hamper their ability on the field in various footballing experience.

[pardners]

I think it should be mainly about development for most the various reasons stated above.  I also think that once the development is on track, that development should be manifested in the results...not only the results but also the competitiveness.  Being competitive at least says that something is working for you...with more progress you can possibly excel or rise to the top.  Results in the order of 17 and 13 goals after three games...without scoring sends a message that not all is well in the camp by way of development.

[palos]

I think it should be mainly about development for most the various reasons stated above.  I also think that once the development is on track, that development should be manifested in the results...not only the results but also the competitiveness.  Being competitive at least says that something is working for you...with more progress you can possibly excel or rise to the top.  Results in the order of 17 and 13 goals after three games...without scoring sends a message that not all is well in the camp by way of development.

More from a lack of scoring or the amount of goals being conceded?

I remember the lead up to the senior team's appearance in the germany 2006 world cup, we were getting thrashed by czech repulblic and slovakia I think it was.  Even our warm up's against Wales and German lower division club teams were disappointing in terms of results.

Then we played our WC matches and performed creditably.  Certainly above the expectations of most if not all of us.  But in so doing, we hardly played football.  Instead, we concentrated on minimizing the damage hoping to catch a break from a set play or something.  We played REALISTICALLY knowing our limitations which made the results palatable.  But we haven't really progressed to a point where we can play any other way and get a result at that level and that to me is disappointing.

[Observer]

i think youth teams are all about the experience gained..sometimes players develop a chemistry that carries on to senior team..for example (portugal's golden generation)..it helps the natioanl team of that generation develop an identity...
or sometimes they don't grow to their potential..the whole point I believe is so that they learn the concept of or importance of representing their countries...

i don't think it should be based on results or senior player produced..because it's near impossible to predict who is going to develop or who's going to stay on form for instance maxi lopez was rated higher than tevez in that tourney and look where their careers went...who gets in an accident (nkosi blackman)..i think it's about developing

Fernando Torres and Pablo Zabaleta also played in U-17 world cup in 2001 btw..

As for those players their international careers may not be over..look at the position ppl like pongolle and le tallec played..look at who they were up against...henry, trezeguet, cisse..
not exactly the easiest team for the youths to break into..so it may be a bit harsh to call thier careers done as yet...

You are quite right. I did not mean to come across as saying they are a right off. Basically I was saying they did not climb to the heights as anticipated (considering their domination at U17) and not even up for selection on the French senior squad, when you look at the young players who have already played Remy, Gignac, Benzema. I know Pongolle got his first call up versus Tunisia (I believe).

[pardners]

I think it should be mainly about development for most the various reasons stated above.  I also think that once the development is on track, that development should be manifested in the results...not only the results but also the competitiveness.  Being competitive at least says that something is working for you...with more progress you can possibly excel or rise to the top.  Results in the order of 17 and 13 goals after three games...without scoring sends a message that not all is well in the camp by way of development.

More from a lack of scoring or the amount of goals being conceded?

I remember the lead up to the senior team's appearance in the germany 2006 world cup, we were getting thrashed by czech repulblic and slovakia I think it was.  Even our warm up's against Wales and German lower division club teams were disappointing in terms of results.

Then we played our WC matches and performed creditably.  Certainly above the expectations of most if not all of us.  But in so doing, we hardly played football.  Instead, we concentrated on minimizing the damage hoping to catch a break from a set play or something.  We played REALISTICALLY knowing our limitations which made the results palatable.  But we haven't really progressed to a point where we can play any other way and get a result at that level and that to me is disappointing.

I agree Palos, that is why when I think that Beenie having seen that our guys couldn't cope with the speed the other teams were playing with, decided to employ a strategy that would make it difficult to LOSE the game, bearing in mind that he can't change our play drastically in 2 to 3 weeks.  So it does hurt me when I see we go up against the odds and try to run with them big teams on their turf and not think about the best strategy to employ to make ourselves diificult to beat...if not win the game.

[ann3boys]

also there is the opportunity to be scouted when you are seen in international competitions and games- coaches looking for new talent will go to see not only winning teams, but those undervalued teams, because that's where they find the future stars...

[kicker]

They should be judged based on both- depending on the footballing environment in the particular country....but primarily judged on results.

Senior nat'l team football is not the be all and end all of a football playing career.  

Especially in large countries where the chances of actually wearing your senior team's shirt are so small just by odds alone.  

If you could put together a good youth team that proves to be the best amongst its peers by way of tournament performances, the players failing to progress to the senior level should not dampen the achievement.  Like I say, senior nat'l team football isn't the be all and end all of a football playing career... If a player can go on to have a successful pro football career (or a career outside of football even) and have only his representation on a nat'l youth team on his resume, he should still be able to boast to his heart's desire that he rep'd his country.  

In a small country like T&T where pro football is kind of a joke, there is little global exposure given to our young players, and where football academies and professional players at the youth level are almost absent I could see the youth teams being a major feeder for the senior nat'l team, but in larger more developed football playing nations, the senior team can probably feed off a number of alternate sources (often better than the youth teams) to stock it's nat'l senior roster... I want to imagine that when a country like Brazil or Argentina puts out its Nat'l U-17 team, that those players are probably not the best 20 youth players in the respective countries... Maybe a few of them, but by and large, alot of the talent gets passed by, and probably surfaces sometime later on.

[Bourbon]

In my view....the purpose of a youth team should be on development. Results can simply give an indication of how your work is paying off and where you rank in terms of your peers. From what I have noticed, many times youth sucess does not translate to senior level sucess. Pongolle and Le Talc....yuh dont even hear about them again...they both played for Liverpool, and have fallen off the map since. A next example is Maximillo Lopez...when I saw him for U17 down here....I made sure to remember his name. Signed for Barca...hit a sour spot.....playing in Russia...never heard of again. Burkina Faso were among the top 4 in that U17 tournament.....which established footballer currently comes from there? At the youth level....athleticsm can get you far. Pongolle i remember hearing that he only started playing football around 12 or 14.....but he was top scorer in that tournament. But....after that.....nothing.

I think that football development programs are designed for the player to hit the peak of his abilities around 23 -26..when he is at his peak physically. Within the teenage years, development of technique and mental approaches in terms of in a team structure are the main focus.....so that when the player reaches the senior team....they fundamentally sound. What i think may result is that many players may peak too early. In our case...we have no coherent youth system so many times our players peak late. In my view...around 17 or 18 a player still teachable if raw talent and a proper ethic in place...but after that its increasingly difficult.

In our case...we keep on saying....we not on those other teams level. We may have some individuals who capable, who can perform on the big stage but....that isnt often the case for all our players. Pragmatically speaking one of our players when compared to the best in the game may be slightly comparable at a given point in time, but that isnt enough. Understanding that makes one not be suprised at the poor results the U20's getting on tour, or the U17's etc. Our foundation is poor....our youth system is a fluke rather than systematic..and while probably blessed with natural talent.....the hard work factor that elevates average ability to world class is non existant. Even if we were to start now...say from ages 12 moving up....it would still take at least 8 years to see any consistent measure of sucess. The results we may get may be better in terms of tournament qualification for U17 and U20 in the CONCACAF pool show what is possible if some sort of plan is put in place long in advance, is a whole different thing in the ocean of the world.

Setting our sights on simple qualification is not good enough. CONCACAF should not be our focus, our world standing should be. Being able to go toe to toe with the best in the world is what I want. Its a major thing to ask yes, but aiming for the best possible should be our focus. By virtue of that...we would be a force in CONCACAF, our players would be able to aquit themselves on the world stage, we would actually live up to the level that we fool ourselves into thinking we are at right now.

Why this does not happen? Well thats a whole long other discussion...

[CK1]

Youth development programs are designed with both short and long term goals in mind so the process begins even earlier than U-14 - U-20. There must be a common methodology and approach to developing fundamentals/technical components while the players are still developing their motor skills.
International competition is exactly what it is "competition"...WC qualifying and the WC is competition and winning is the ultimate goal regardless of the age group. What the U-20 team is going through now is good preparation for competition so the results may be a secondary factor...when they get to Egypt it's a different story and the (more successful) countries have a clear understanding of these differences.
The French had a 10 year developmental program geared towards the long term goal of competiting favorably in the 1998 WC which paid off with a WC Championship. 200 players passed through that program some of whom we've never heard of but it was all part to a systamic developmental program that has continued to produce world class players. It is not only about players though, the plan must include coaches; administrators; resourses etc. for things to work. The US used Project Gold 2010 as their plan and we know what they have been able to achieve with their youth and senior programs.
I'm fortunate to have access to some information in this regard and I will tell you that Germany has in recent months launched a new developmental program with the long term goal of "Winning every FIFA World Cup at Every age group both Male and Female by 2026" This developmental program will begin with 3 year olds.
We often refer to our natural talent; but realistically, every country in the world has the same talent we have. How do we develop the talent to produce the quality of players that will allow us to compete on the international stage remains a challenge for all involved. We have to step out of our little world and see what is being done in the other contries...step out ; send people out; bring people in....beg; burrow; steal anything that we can use to take us where we want to. We can start by not pointing fingers at individuals; coaches; players, but first define our short and long term goals and look for ways to put a proper program in place. Perhaps there is one already in place but we are not patient enough to allow things to develop because ultimately all we care about is the results!!!!

[palos]

Youth development programs are designed with both short and long term goals in mind so the process begins even earlier than U-14 - U-20. There must be a common methodology and approach to developing fundamentals/technical components while the players are still developing their motor skills.
International competition is exactly what it is "competition"...WC qualifying and the WC is competition and winning is the ultimate goal regardless of the age group. What the U-20 team is going through now is good preparation for competition so the results may be a secondary factor...when they get to Egypt it's a different story and the (more successful) countries have a clear understanding of these differences.
The French had a 10 year developmental program geared towards the long term goal of competiting favorably in the 1998 WC which paid off with a WC Championship. 200 players passed through that program some of whom we've never heard of but it was all part to a systamic developmental program that has continued to produce world class players. It is not only about players though, the plan must include coaches; administrators; resourses etc. for things to work. The US used Project Gold 2010 as their plan and we know what they have been able to achieve with their youth and senior programs.
I'm fortunate to have access to some information in this regard and I will tell you that Germany has in recent months launched a new developmental program with the long term goal of "Winning every FIFA World Cup at Every age group both Male and Female by 2026" This developmental program will begin with 3 year olds.
We often refer to our natural talent; but realistically, every country in the world has the same talent we have. How do we develop the talent to produce the quality of players that will allow us to compete on the international stage remains a challenge for all involved. We have to step out of our little world and see what is being done in the other contries...step out ; send people out; bring people in....beg; burrow; steal anything that we can use to take us where we want to. We can start by not pointing fingers at individuals; coaches; players, but first define our short and long term goals and look for ways to put a proper program in place. Perhaps there is one already in place but we are not patient enough to allow things to develop because ultimately all we care about is the results!!!!

Excellent post!  I especially like this part..

The French had a 10 year developmental program geared towards the long term goal of competiting favorably in the 1998 WC which paid off with a WC Championship. 200 players passed through that program some of whom we've never heard of but it was all part to a systamic developmental program that has continued to produce world class players. It is not only about players though, the plan must include coaches; administrators; resourses etc. for things to work.

Thanks again CK1

[daryn]

It's not about whether the specific people who are stars at the youth level turn out to be stars at senior level.  In any sport it is somewhat difficult to predict which youths will mature into senior level stars or at what rate (c.f. Darrel Brown vs Richard Thompson).  If you have a good youth program, all else being equal, you will have a strong senior team down the road.

you can't say France loss a generation because Ribery is only a year older than Pongolle and Le Tellec and players like Ben Arfa, Benzema and Nasri are only 2 years younger.  Pongolle playing for Atletico Madrid so the reality of the situation is that he is a very good footballer.  He just get surpassed by his peers.

[kicker]

Youth development programs are designed with both short and long term goals in mind so the process begins even earlier than U-14 - U-20. There must be a common methodology and approach to developing fundamentals/technical components while the players are still developing their motor skills.
International competition is exactly what it is "competition"...WC qualifying and the WC is competition and winning is the ultimate goal regardless of the age group. What the U-20 team is going through now is good preparation for competition so the results may be a secondary factor...when they get to Egypt it's a different story and the (more successful) countries have a clear understanding of these differences.
The French had a 10 year developmental program geared towards the long term goal of competiting favorably in the 1998 WC which paid off with a WC Championship. 200 players passed through that program some of whom we've never heard of but it was all part to a systamic developmental program that has continued to produce world class players. It is not only about players though, the plan must include coaches; administrators; resourses etc. for things to work. The US used Project Gold 2010 as their plan and we know what they have been able to achieve with their youth and senior programs.
I'm fortunate to have access to some information in this regard and I will tell you that Germany has in recent months launched a new developmental program with the long term goal of "Winning every FIFA World Cup at Every age group both Male and Female by 2026" This developmental program will begin with 3 year olds.
We often refer to our natural talent; but realistically, every country in the world has the same talent we have. How do we develop the talent to produce the quality of players that will allow us to compete on the international stage remains a challenge for all involved. We have to step out of our little world and see what is being done in the other contries...step out ; send people out; bring people in....beg; burrow; steal anything that we can use to take us where we want to. We can start by not pointing fingers at individuals; coaches; players, but first define our short and long term goals and look for ways to put a proper program in place. Perhaps there is one already in place but we are not patient enough to allow things to develop because ultimately all we care about is the results!!!!

Very good post...doubt that part in bold though 

To follow up on this, I suppose the answer to the question is really:

It depends on 2 things:

1) The (stated) objective- you could only objectively judge a program based on what it sets out to achieve.  I guess a sub question related to this thread (which some have already begun to answer) is "what is the most suitable stated objective of (T&T's or any country's)youth program?"

2) Who's judging- everyone involved will have different motives and hence will selfishly (not meant in a derogatory way) assess the success of the program based on its ability to facilitate his/her needs/intentions. 

The objectives will vary depending on the footballing environment and the discretion of the federation in charge of establishing the program....

...and who's judging varies from players aspiring to be professionals/senior team players, those who just love the game but might quit after playing at the youth level (I'm sure there are some), the whole host of coaches with varying objectives, investors who put their dollars behind it etc...

Good thread Palos   

[Observer]

Youth development programs are designed with both short and long term goals in mind so the process begins even earlier than U-14 - U-20. There must be a common methodology and approach to developing fundamentals/technical components while the players are still developing their motor skills.
International competition is exactly what it is "competition"...WC qualifying and the WC is competition and winning is the ultimate goal regardless of the age group. What the U-20 team is going through now is good preparation for competition so the results may be a secondary factor...when they get to Egypt it's a different story and the (more successful) countries have a clear understanding of these differences.
The French had a 10 year developmental program geared towards the long term goal of competiting favorably in the 1998 WC which paid off with a WC Championship. 200 players passed through that program some of whom we've never heard of but it was all part to a systamic developmental program that has continued to produce world class players. It is not only about players though, the plan must include coaches; administrators; resourses etc. for things to work. The US used Project Gold 2010 as their plan and we know what they have been able to achieve with their youth and senior programs.
I'm fortunate to have access to some information in this regard and I will tell you that Germany has in recent months launched a new developmental program with the long term goal of "Winning every FIFA World Cup at Every age group both Male and Female by 2026" This developmental program will begin with 3 year olds.
We often refer to our natural talent; but realistically, every country in the world has the same talent we have. How do we develop the talent to produce the quality of players that will allow us to compete on the international stage remains a challenge for all involved. We have to step out of our little world and see what is being done in the other contries...step out ; send people out; bring people in....beg; burrow; steal anything that we can use to take us where we want to. We can start by not pointing fingers at individuals; coaches; players, but first define our short and long term goals and look for ways to put a proper program in place. Perhaps there is one already in place but we are not patient enough to allow things to develop because ultimately all we care about is the results!!!!

The French had a 10 year developmental program geared towards the long term goal of competiting favorably in the 1998 WC which paid off with a WC Championship.

This is a myth put forward by the French Federation in an attempt to sell its program (according to France media). Media in France have questioned this  and it infuriated Gerrard Houllier. Though the idea is a good one, the generation of the 10 year program (Clairefontaine opened 1988 & Centers of formation) has yet to make their mark, as many football peoples in France have drawn reference too. Henry is the only player from the FIRSt Clairefontaine generation that was in the France squad for 1998. The rest of the squad were born between 1963 and 1972 and were a product of the club system.
Having said all that the Clairefontaine model has done well and as indicated has produced several players for the French National team. Back in 2001, FIFA U17 (Trinidad and Tobago) 4 players on that Victorious French squad came from Clairefontaine. It is a model worth replicating but is a very expensive venture and needs to be duplicated by all clubs (as is presently done in France).

[Deeks]

Everyone made valid points. The youth tournaments are about development. Some countries try not to put to much pressure on the youths. But after viewing some of these tournaments, that is not necessarily the case.

The Euro countries( the top guys, Italy, Germany, Spain, France, England, Holland) appear to put development before results. I use the word appear. But for  some S. America, Concacaf, Africa, Asia, these sub. tournaments are  as much about development and results. It is a prestigeous thing for the socalled lower countries. They don't have the resources, they want immediate results. The licking our boys got on this tours have some people on the forum in some serious fustration. We ready to dump these guys and bring in a new batch.

[Big Magician]

top thread...even though its no secret...
this thread may even be beyond some forumites...

[Deeks]

Bye the way I saw a replay of the final for the South American group between Brazil and Arg. real classic. Boy the field remind me of Geo. V under lights or PSA. I could not believe for a tournament like this, that the field would be in such a state. Brazil won on pks.

[Observer]

Bye the way I saw a replay of the final for the South American group between Brazil and Arg. real classic. Boy the field remind me of Geo. V under lights or PSA. I could not believe for a tournament like this, that the field would be in such a state. Brazil won on pks.

Geo V  I watched that myself and the field was suffering from so many games in a short period. What was refreshing was how dem youth handled the conditions.

[weary1969]

Agree youth team is about development. D fact that dem yutes went to under 17 and goin under 20 should hold over football in good stead if d TTFF eh do what Scotland say.

[nnyman18]

It seems most folks on this thread agree with development over results. As I was reading this thread I was reminded of an experience while doing my A-License. The instructor was pretty torn up about losing the U-20 Women's World Cup the previous year. You could tell losing the semis  on pk's was having a real adverse effect on him. Then he informed us that what kept him going was the conversation he had with the president of the federation and the Head women's national team coach. He was reminded that his sole purpose/role with the team was to assist with the future development of the youth players that were under his charge. Since they were able to bring 4 of those players into the full national team after the youth WC,they felt he had done his job. Those 4 players are now permanent fixtures on our senior national team today. One of them scored the winner in the gold medal game in the olympics. So for me as long as the youth coaches in Trinidad doing their part to get these young players ready to take the mantle when their turn arrives I am fine with that

[asylumseeker]

The reason I brought this up is because the coaches of Spain, Holland, France, Italy and Germany in a recent UEFA conference on youth football, played down the results at the early ages. They basically said its easy to cheat at these ages and select the biggest and fastest players, get results, but those players never make it to the top. Italy and Holland played down the entire significance of this tournament. Now UEFA has quite a structure for International development, with tournaments at 15-16-17.

Granted.

However, perhaps this underscores that European perspectives may not be shared elsewhere. Let's face it, in much of the ironically-named "developing countries", the clear ambition is on prestige and winning. Deeks and others flesh out this point.

What I don't see addressed here (I may have missed it) ... is focus on the capacity to develop ... even if/where a nation actively views these tournaments as agents of development.

I'm focusing on 'actively' because it appears some contributors are referencing passive development in the form of tangible (maybe even intangible) benefits gained from participating at a youth WC or like tourney. Passive development has no mandated direction. Active development is an entirely different ballgame. Literally.

In this context, the example of Gambia comes to mind.

[asylumseeker]

It's not about whether the specific people who are stars at the youth level turn out to be stars at senior level.  In any sport it is somewhat difficult to predict which youths will mature into senior level stars or at what rate (c.f. Darrel Brown vs Richard Thompson).  If you have a good youth program, all else being equal, you will have a strong senior team down the road.

you can't say France loss a generation because Ribery is only a year older than Pongolle and Le Tellec and players like Ben Arfa, Benzema and Nasri are only 2 years younger.  Pongolle playing for Atletico Madrid so the reality of the situation is that he is a very good footballer.  He just get surpassed by his peers.

I remain struck by the fact that Ronaldinho is the only Brazilian player of his generation to play through all of the age group ranks at the international level.

[pardners]

The reason I brought this up is because the coaches of Spain, Holland, France, Italy and Germany in a recent UEFA conference on youth football, played down the results at the early ages. They basically said its easy to cheat at these ages and select the biggest and fastest players, get results, but those players never make it to the top. Italy and Holland played down the entire significance of this tournament. Now UEFA has quite a structure for International development, with tournaments at 15-16-17.

Granted.

However, perhaps this underscores that European perspectives may not be shared elsewhere. Let's face it, in much of the ironically-named "developing countries", the clear ambition is on prestige and winning. Deeks and others flesh out this point.

What I don't see addressed here (I may have missed it) ... is focus on the capacity to develop ... even if/where a nation actively views these tournaments as agents of development.

I'm focusing on 'actively' because it appears some contributors are referencing passive development in the form of tangible (maybe even intangible) benefits gained from participating at a youth WC or like tourney. Passive development has no mandated direction. Active development is an entirely different ballgame. Literally.

In this context, the example of Gambia comes to mind.

I was thinking along the same lines Observer.  In my opinion there is always the penchant in our country that once we play friendlies and go on tours, it means we are developing.  We also tend to think that we could do it on our own, we don't need outside help....which sometimes take a different spin in that once the help comes from outside it might be better than local...then we have to rationalise costs etc.

[Observer]

It's not about whether the specific people who are stars at the youth level turn out to be stars at senior level.  In any sport it is somewhat difficult to predict which youths will mature into senior level stars or at what rate (c.f. Darrel Brown vs Richard Thompson).  If you have a good youth program, all else being equal, you will have a strong senior team down the road.

you can't say France loss a generation because Ribery is only a year older than Pongolle and Le Tellec and players like Ben Arfa, Benzema and Nasri are only 2 years younger.  Pongolle playing for Atletico Madrid so the reality of the situation is that he is a very good footballer.  He just get surpassed by his peers.

I agree with what you are saying. I guess this is not the best way for someone to express what they are trying to say. The issue is what is the objective of youth programs. Using France may not be the best example, but my point was that though successful the 2001 team (made up of 22 players) has yet to reward France. Again I agree the objective is to have as many players in professional ranks as possible and France has done that. A different insight may be the Latapy, Hislop, Yorke,  generation was not a successful International youth program, but the players went on to bigger and better things and T&T was rewarded in the end.

[palos]

If, as everyone seems to agree that youth football is primarily about development, how developed are our coaches to be able to impart the knowledge necessary to enable our youths to be competitive on the international stage?  Do they have the resources at their disposal to be able to do the job properly?

One thing I notice with teams like a Barcelona or a Man Utd and it harks back to the days of watching my favourite ever club team, AC Milan of Baresi, Gullit, Rijjkaard, Donadoni, Van Basten etc...is that as great offensive teams as they were/are, their work OFF THE BALL always fascinated me.  These offensive stars would work extremely hard to put pressure on the opposition to win back the ball when they didn't have possession.  

Look at Barca and check out Iniesta and Xavi in particular.  Their work rate is incredible.  And it's not wildness going all over the place peltin tackle.  Is puttin pressure on their man, oftentimes nicking the ball away and it invariably falls to a teammate.  So how come it falls to a teammate?  I've come to the conclusion that the same way they ensure that the man on the ball has 2 or 3 options when they have possession, similarly the same options present themselves when they DON'T have the ball, so that when the ball is nicked away, the chances of it falling to a teammate is high.

I look at T&T and that's a skill, a mindset that's conspicuously absent from our game in general.  Carlos Edwards does it to some extent.  So too Birchall.  Whitley did it in 2005 as did Yorke.  But that's about it.

So I asked someone what do these big clubs do to get their young players to buy into the concept of playing off the ball and working hard to get it back.  The person said a couple of revealing things:

1 - Clubs train their minds at a young age what they need to do when they lose the ball.  In essence, they condition their central nervous system to react a particular way.
2 - Competiton.  You have X amount of time to prove that you really want it.  If you don't, you're out.  Competiton for places is the biggest motivator.

I totally understood the competiton thing, but the conditioning the mind thing surprised me, but it makes a lot of sense.

[CK1]

So I asked someone what do these big clubs do to get their young players to buy into the concept of playing off the ball and working hard to get it back.  The person said a couple of revealing things:

1 - Clubs train their minds at a young age what they need to do when they lose the ball.  In essence, they condition their central nervous system to react a particular way.
2 - Competiton.  You have X amount of time to prove that you really want it.  If you don't, you're out.  Competiton for places is the biggest motivator.

I totally understood the competiton thing, but the conditioning the mind thing surprised me, but it makes a lot of sense.

Of course it is a cricital factor in the total development of the player. We tend to only focus on what our players can or cannot do with the ball., but football is a brain game and at the highest level that's where the differences occur in split seconds; so at the early ages when motor skills are being developed (ages 3-10) the technical aspects (this is also an area where the central nervous system is conditioned) have to be developed; after that the brain is being developed (11-16) so tactical awareness then become the focal point of the player's development. I witnessed several sessions last summer at my camp two guest coaches from Barca worked with some players who we thought were quality players for their age; most of the sessions focused on their ability to play off the ball and execute a certain skill with precision once the ball was recieved. Many of the players struggled because they became mentally fatigued even faster than they were physically fatigued.

[kicker]

Look at Barca and check out Iniesta and Xavi in particular.  Their work rate is incredible.  And it's not wildness going all over the place peltin tackle.  Is puttin pressure on their man, oftentimes nicking the ball away and it invariably falls to a teammate.  So how come it falls to a teammate?  I've come to the conclusion that the same way they ensure that the man on the ball has 2 or 3 options when they have possession, similarly the same options present themselves when they DON'T have the ball, so that when the ball is nicked away, the chances of it falling to a teammate is high.

Don't mean to stray from the topic but I like this example as one of the subtle differences you notice as football gets more sophisticated.  It was one of the things that jumped out at me when we played against England in WC 06. (being at the game made it so much more noticeable) - a high percentage of England's defensive headers were actually aimed at a teammate- and I mean defensive headers executed under pressure as well...  Even our strongest players in air when they rise to clear, they seem to be most focussed on just winning the ball and clearing the danger, but when Terry & Ferdinand challenged for a ball in the air you could see them adjust their approach to ball so that they could direct their defensive header at a teammate and many times it was a well controlled clearance too....akin to your example of Xavi's all in one tackle & pass (at the same time) style of defending. 

ok back to the topic.