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Author Topic: How would you compare our present day players to those of the past  (Read 2855 times)

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Offline nnyman18

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It seems like present day players can't rise to the level of players back in the early 70's through to the early 90's. Every time we talk about big time players we always revert to Latapy and Yorke. You would think by now we would have developed a couple more players of that caliber. Just recently there was a post on the most exciting player ever and even though some men confused quality with excitement, the majority of players mentioned were players from our past. Why is that? One would think that the coaching in Trinidad is much better today than it was in the past and the present day players have a lot more avenues to further develop their abilities. Maybe i am just plain wrong about that!
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Offline kicker

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Re: How would you compare our present day players to those of the past
« Reply #1 on: May 21, 2009, 08:23:14 AM »
Old people will say that past players were soooooooo much better.

Surprisingly Trinidad football appears to have been at pretty much the same level throughout time.

Something tells me that if we had current footage of some of these old greats that get rated on this board, the old heads would probably readjust their estimation of them... Nostalgia, selective memory and relative lack of exposure is a hell of a thing. 

Latapy & Yorke (and a possibly a few others) aside.  Logic would tell me that on average the calibre of T&T player hasn't really changed through time. 
« Last Edit: May 21, 2009, 08:25:40 AM by kicker »
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Offline daryn

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Re: How would you compare our present day players to those of the past
« Reply #2 on: May 21, 2009, 08:39:37 AM »
yeah kicker, yuh spot on.

the way I look at is that 20 years ago a 17 yr old Dwight Yorke was already one of the best players in the country. then he went England and took several seasons to really become an established player.  Now we have several players in the Premiership/Championship.

the one thing that the modern era might be deficient in is the quality of the talent in the local leagues.  that is to be expected given the relatively large number of players (considering our small population) that we've exported to foreign leagues.   

Offline futbolfan

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Re: How would you compare our present day players to those of the past
« Reply #3 on: May 21, 2009, 08:55:19 AM »
Old people will say that past players were soooooooo much better.

Surprisingly Trinidad football appears to have been at pretty much the same level throughout time.

Something tells me that if we had current footage of some of these old greats that get rated on this board, the old heads would probably readjust their estimation of them... Nostalgia, selective memory and relative lack of exposure is a hell of a thing. 

Latapy & Yorke (and a possibly a few others) aside.  Logic would tell me that on average the calibre of T&T player hasn't really changed through time. 

Definitely some truth to your comments, but at present, would you rather have the back 4 from the strike squad era or our current 09/10 version. :beermug:
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Offline palos

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Re: How would you compare our present day players to those of the past
« Reply #4 on: May 21, 2009, 09:59:07 AM »
Old people will say that past players were soooooooo much better.

Surprisingly Trinidad football appears to have been at pretty much the same level throughout time.

Something tells me that if we had current footage of some of these old greats that get rated on this board, the old heads would probably readjust their estimation of them... Nostalgia, selective memory and relative lack of exposure is a hell of a thing. 

Latapy & Yorke (and a possibly a few others) aside.  Logic would tell me that on average the calibre of T&T player hasn't really changed through time. 

Definitely some truth to your comments, but at present, would you rather have the back 4 from the strike squad era or our current 09/10 version. :beermug:

The back 4 from 1989 was a much more settled unit.  Those guys trained, ate, and slept together for a year.  As a result, they were in a better position to work as a unit than the current back 4.

Of that 1989 back 4, the wing backs would be able to make this current team (Brian Williams and Marvin Faustin).  As much as I love JB and Pec, I cyah see dem ahead of Dennis Lawrence, Dog, or Keyeno Thomas.  They would have experience on the likes of a Makan Hislop.

I don't think you can compare the 2 backlines.  Different football times, different conditions, different environment.
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Offline berris

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Re: How would you compare our present day players to those of the past
« Reply #5 on: May 21, 2009, 10:13:55 AM »
Back in de 'day' we never had a goal scorer like #14 ,we never went to ah WC, so I doh know how anyone cud say ''like present day players can't rise to the level of players back in the early 70's through to the early 90's.'' What did the players of the 70s accomplish ???.We use tuh fight up tuh beat de likes of Barbados,Suriname,Guyana tuh name ah few and we were never a dominant force in de Caribbean .Today dem same teams doh stand ah chance .Now whatever de reason is for dat is another discussion but is no way the 'teams' back den accomplished more than the team/teams of today .   
The evidence is in how far we have reached .IMO TnT football has gotten much better due to outside coaching and de only time we even look like qualifying for a WC 'back in de 70s' was when Kevin Verity (ah tink dais he name ,not too sure) was de coach.   
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Offline palos

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Re: How would you compare our present day players to those of the past
« Reply #6 on: May 21, 2009, 10:24:05 AM »
Back in de 'day' we never had a goal scorer like #14 ,we never went to ah WC, so I doh know how anyone cud say ''like present day players can't rise to the level of players back in the early 70's through to the early 90's.'' What did the players of the 70s accomplish ???.We use tuh fight up tuh beat de likes of Barbados,Suriname,Guyana tuh name ah few and we were never a dominant force in de Caribbean .Today dem same teams doh stand ah chance .Now whatever de reason is for dat is another discussion but is no way the 'teams' back den accomplished more than the team/teams of today .   
The evidence is in how far we have reached .IMO TnT football has gotten much better due to outside coaching and de only time we even look like qualifying for a WC 'back in de 70s' was when Kevin Verity (ah tink dais he name ,not too sure) was de coach.   

Excellent point.

There's also a parallell with that 73 team and now too.

That 73 team had Cummings, Archibald, David, Moraldo, Barclay, and Douglas who were ALL playing overseas as professional footballers.   The first 5 in the NASL and Tony Douglas in Jamaica.

As we all know, the vast majority of our players in 2006 play their football in overseas leagues.

I eh sayin dat in order to be successful, we need to have our players playing overseas. The Strike Squad is one example of that.  But the Strike Squad had 3 major advantages.
1 - That team did everything together for at least a year.  There was no club vs country conflict except for the latter part when Yorke was signed by Aston Villa.
2 - Russell Latapy
3 - Dwight Yorke

Leonson Lewis also helped.
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Offline Touches

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Re: How would you compare our present day players to those of the past
« Reply #7 on: May 21, 2009, 11:00:01 AM »
kicker,

I going against the grain here...the older folk were better. (In certain departments)

It hard to compare because we have depended on the same old players for so long but I will use this current crop of players 09 players vs the squads from 2002 for the basis of my arguement.

Having Stern John, latapy and Yorke in the team still is testament that no young player has stepped up and filled the void. Had any of them done it better...achieving results and playing creditably there would be no need for any of these 3 players on the field.

Goalkeeping...Tricky to compare...This may be even, but it can be argued the younger batch get pro contracts abroad. Shaka and Ince around since 2002, jack to a lesser extent so if you match them up vs Jan and Phillips, Cleon John etc. The old folk better.

Defence...While some may point out Dog and Lawrence to be competent. I think in the wingback position marvin faustin was and still is better than what we have available.  

Midfield...hands down the yesteryear group was better and by a Mile...the current group is a bunch of labourers and or lacking skill. The past group not only had skill but were EFFECTIVE. Nuttin better than marcelle or lewis on the wing in this current group. none of them coulda general a midfield like Nahkid, nobody here could win a ball like Ronnie Mauge or Reynold Carrington...doh talk bout Dwarika. We ent see nuttin good like he since. Den alyuh fellas forgettin men like Rougier, alvin thomas, jughead, even Angus Eve better than what we have now...I even lowering the bar a bit to say Lydon Andrews better than what we running with right now.

Fwds...lewwe take Stern out the equation...who else of the new crop good? kenweyne is Blah! and Scotland ent reach yet...so who?...breds Nigel Pierre have a better strike rate than them, and if yuh didnt rate him dais to show yuh how bad the current fwd line is without stern. Dexter Cyrus better than them men  ;D...i would go so far as to say a gary Glasgow before he break his foot was a good player. even peter prosper .

Dig up the squad from around 2000 when top the semi-final round and beat Mexico here...dat side player for player  better than what we have now...in fact dat shoulda be the squad to go world cup as all men were 25-26 and in they prime. I worse men on that team were Stokley Mason and shurland david.

Yesteryear players were better...the current stars of this bunch ent do nuttin yet.



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Offline palos

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Re: How would you compare our present day players to those of the past
« Reply #8 on: May 21, 2009, 11:08:01 AM »
kicker,

I going against the grain here...the older folk were better. (In certain departments)

It hard to compare because we have depended on the same old players for so long but I will use this current crop of players 09 players vs the squads from 2002 for the basis of my arguement.

Having Stern John, latapy and Yorke in the team still is testament that no young player has stepped up and filled the void. Had any of them done it better...achieving results and playing creditably there would be no need for any of these 3 players on the field.

Goalkeeping...Tricky to compare...This may be even, but it can be argued the younger batch get pro contracts abroad. Shaka and Ince around since 2002, jack to a lesser extent so if you match them up vs Jan and Phillips, Cleon John etc. The old folk better.

Defence...While some may point out Dog and Lawrence to be competent. I think in the wingback position marvin faustin was and still is better than what we have available.  

Midfield...hands down the yesteryear group was better and by a Mile...the current group is a bunch of labourers and or lacking skill. The past group not only had skill but were EFFECTIVE. Nuttin better than marcelle or lewis on the wing in this current group. none of them coulda general a midfield like Nahkid, nobody here could win a ball like Ronnie Mauge or Reynold Carrington...doh talk bout Dwarika. We ent see nuttin good like he since. Den alyuh fellas forgettin men like Rougier, alvin thomas, jughead, even Angus Eve better than what we have now...I even lowering the bar a bit to say Lydon Andrews better than what we running with right now.

Fwds...lewwe take Stern out the equation...who else of the new crop good? kenweyne is Blah! and Scotland ent reach yet...so who?...breds Nigel Pierre have a better strike rate than them, and if yuh didnt rate him dais to show yuh how bad the current fwd line is without stern. Dexter Cyrus better than them men  ;D...i would go so far as to say a gary Glasgow before he break his foot was a good player. even peter prosper .

Dig up the squad from around 2000 when top the semi-final round and beat Mexico here...dat side player for player  better than what we have now...in fact dat shoulda be the squad to go world cup as all men were 25-26 and in they prime. I worse men on that team were Stokley Mason and shurland david.

Yesteryear players were better...the current stars of this bunch ent do nuttin yet.



Yuh talk plenty tata jes fuh arguments sake dey bro.
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Offline kicker

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Re: How would you compare our present day players to those of the past
« Reply #9 on: May 21, 2009, 11:18:20 AM »
kicker,

I going against the grain here...the older folk were better. (In certain departments)

It hard to compare because we have depended on the same old players for so long but I will use this current crop of players 09 players vs the squads from 2002 for the basis of my arguement.

Having Stern John, latapy and Yorke in the team still is testament that no young player has stepped up and filled the void. Had any of them done it better...achieving results and playing creditably there would be no need for any of these 3 players on the field.

Goalkeeping...Tricky to compare...This may be even, but it can be argued the younger batch get pro contracts abroad. Shaka and Ince around since 2002, jack to a lesser extent so if you match them up vs Jan and Phillips, Cleon John etc. The old folk better.

Defence...While some may point out Dog and Lawrence to be competent. I think in the wingback position marvin faustin was and still is better than what we have available.  

Midfield...hands down the yesteryear group was better and by a Mile...the current group is a bunch of labourers and or lacking skill. The past group not only had skill but were EFFECTIVE. Nuttin better than marcelle or lewis on the wing in this current group. none of them coulda general a midfield like Nahkid, nobody here could win a ball like Ronnie Mauge or Reynold Carrington...doh talk bout Dwarika. We ent see nuttin good like he since. Den alyuh fellas forgettin men like Rougier, alvin thomas, jughead, even Angus Eve better than what we have now...I even lowering the bar a bit to say Lydon Andrews better than what we running with right now.

Fwds...lewwe take Stern out the equation...who else of the new crop good? kenweyne is Blah! and Scotland ent reach yet...so who?...breds Nigel Pierre have a better strike rate than them, and if yuh didnt rate him dais to show yuh how bad the current fwd line is without stern. Dexter Cyrus better than them men  ;D...i would go so far as to say a gary Glasgow before he break his foot was a good player. even peter prosper .

Dig up the squad from around 2000 when top the semi-final round and beat Mexico here...dat side player for player  better than what we have now...in fact dat shoulda be the squad to go world cup as all men were 25-26 and in they prime. I worse men on that team were Stokley Mason and shurland david.

Yesteryear players were better...the current stars of this bunch ent do nuttin yet.



Yeah my post and your post not really talking to eachother - Almost everybody you call there I consider them modern day players.  I guess my answer is not really accurate to the question posed in the thread (present day vs. past)

By old players I talking about Strike squad & before (players who I don't know about but hear the old timers on the board rave about).

Either way I can't really compare because of course I haven't seen many of the older legends, but like ah say, other than the standouts here and there who I consider to be the outliers, logic would suggest that the average calibre of T&T player hasn't really changed through time.  On a relative basis (relative to the rest of the world) it's probably improved.  

Maybe we can compare generations? 60's v 70's v 80's v 90's v 00's to clear it up a bit....in that comparison you might find some decades being relatively stronger than others because of the timing of some of the standout players...but overall I think the general standard of our football and footballers was always at that "talented amateur" level because we've never had a true system to develop solid career professionals in the sport.
« Last Edit: May 21, 2009, 11:22:02 AM by kicker »
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Offline elan

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Re: How would you compare our present day players to those of the past
« Reply #10 on: May 21, 2009, 12:02:56 PM »
Players today are just as good if not better. For one thing most would be a bit stronger and faster today. Faster games, more games, better training, balls that require a better touch to settle than balls of yesteryear, teams across the region and internationally more tactically sophisticated than before. How many of those teams from back in the day would survive in the PFL day in and day out? Savannah football - and as bad as the PFL is- is two different kettle of fish.

Like it or not players today are exposed to so much more football than players from back in the day. Remember, when we say a man today is shyte is in comparison to their cohort,not those from another era. I does look at the game where the strike squad draw with the USA in California and the game so simple I does wonder. The Tactical deployment and movement was what you would have expect from a basic team. The T&T Nashville team would have beat that USA tream by 3-4 clear goals.
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Offline Marcos

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Re: How would you compare our present day players to those of the past
« Reply #11 on: May 21, 2009, 12:08:21 PM »
In reality all we are missing is composure and creativity in the middle, consistent wing back play and fitness.

Latas knows this and is concentrating on fitness it seems.

I have a feeling the earlier generations had at least one special player who was able to lift the level of the entire team i.e. Latapy, Nakhid, Dwarikah (ppl I am familair with).

We don't have THE GUY on this team to lead it. Sorry but 40-year old Latapy and Dwight can't lift the team at their age
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Offline nnyman18

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Re: How would you compare our present day players to those of the past
« Reply #12 on: May 21, 2009, 01:00:32 PM »
Elan I ain't to sure bout that one nah. I cah vouge for that Nasville team. They does still geh me nightmares. Ah cah see that team beating that US team by no 3 or 4 goals nah. Ah could see that strike squad team giving them 3 or 4 though. As we does say that performance was real to to ;D
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Offline Big Magician

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Re: How would you compare our present day players to those of the past
« Reply #13 on: May 21, 2009, 01:40:45 PM »
remember in 1989... the back pass rule was not yet in effect....
and if you think that dont make a difference well..lets forget it then
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Offline injunchile

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Re: How would you compare our present day players to those of the past
« Reply #14 on: May 21, 2009, 01:55:57 PM »
The 73 team did not make a W/c because they get thief in Haiti. Just imagine Latapy and Yorke still needed, we begging for Dog and Avery to come back. Men on this forum mentioning that KJ cant trap a ball properly, yet we comparing footballers from the past to this present crop. For those of you who have not seen the likes of Alvin Corneal, Kelvin Berassa, Carlton Franco. Or those who did not see football at PSA- Chinapoo- The last of the red men- Sammy L- Ron Laforest, keep quiet. Even COOPS posting on this board better than anything in a football boots today.

Offline slates

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Re: How would you compare our present day players to those of the past
« Reply #15 on: May 21, 2009, 01:56:06 PM »
To me, plenty of the back-in-d-day stars get their ranks from playing savannah ball, skinner park, etc. althoug I know some of them did make it to the NASL and maybe even beyond.

Players today getting graded on a higher level due to the greater exposure today.

Back in the day, ah man woulda call a player a shithound if he couldn't pull down a ball dead like Ron La or Archibald. Today, Kenwyne getting put down because he cyah kill it dead like Berbatov.

Exposure have a big thing to do with it. Men does rate up players from long ago based on what they hear. Today, the opinions are more based almost exclusively on what you see.

Put the old time team in their prime against the modern team (and I too talking about pre Strike Squad) and is lix for the old timers, is my belief.

I guess even I too subject to it to a certain extent because I eh think this current team beating the Strike Squad. But, I say that realizing that the thing that stands out most when I consider Strike Squad and the current team is, the Strike Squad was a TEAM!
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Offline MATADOR

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Re: How would you compare our present day players to those of the past
« Reply #16 on: May 21, 2009, 02:10:14 PM »
i think the older players demonstrated more passion and desire, back in the days money wasn't the attraction more so the opportunity...nowadays it is more like how much you paying me and when can I expect it.

Offline injunchile

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Re: How would you compare our present day players to those of the past
« Reply #17 on: May 21, 2009, 02:12:12 PM »
Good Point- The strike squad was a team.

Offline nnyman18

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Re: How would you compare our present day players to those of the past
« Reply #18 on: May 21, 2009, 02:47:21 PM »
Oh God Boy Injunctile yuh raise meh puase with just the mention of PSA. It had a dread who use to play for Tunapuna modniks( ah know this spelling wrong anyway) I am a youth man watching them play one night. He put a ball through a man leg and sgtand over him as he fell then proceeded to ask him to get up while he stood over him. the whole stands on either side waiting to see the out come as the brother getting up he put the ball through he leg again and gone. Well boy men nearly run out PSA with that one. if anyone know that dread please drop his name.

As for Ron La see him bend down to tie he shoe lace down in Chaguanas and as the man rush him spanna the man. Ron was always one of meh favorites I had a chance to play with him in the break away league in the mid 80's class player
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Re: How would you compare our present day players to those of the past
« Reply #19 on: May 21, 2009, 03:29:18 PM »
Back in the day, ah man woulda call a player a shithound if he couldn't pull down a ball dead like Ron La or Archibald. Today, Kenwyne getting put down because he cyah kill it dead like Berbatov.

Exposure have a big thing to do with it. Men does rate up players from long ago based on what they hear. Today, the opinions are more based almost exclusively on what you see.

Put the old time team in their prime against the modern team (and I too talking about pre Strike Squad) and is lix for the old timers, is my belief.

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Re: How would you compare our present day players to those of the past
« Reply #20 on: May 21, 2009, 07:00:34 PM »
The 73 team did not make a W/c because they get thief in Haiti. Just imagine Latapy and Yorke still needed, we begging for Dog and Avery to come back. Men on this forum mentioning that KJ cant trap a ball properly, yet we comparing footballers from the past to this present crop. For those of you who have not seen the likes of Alvin Corneal, Kelvin Berassa, Carlton Franco. Or those who did not see football at PSA- Chinapoo- The last of the red men- Sammy L- Ron Laforest, keep quiet. Even COOPS posting on this board better than anything in a football boots today.


I go ask de question again ...What has any team from de 70s or 90s accomplish ? And if they were so great or better why they had tuh fight up tuh beat team like Barbados and Suriname ? I was in de oval when Barbados put water in we eye ,remember Tom Phillip flick  ;) Today we washing de likes ah Barbados every time we meet dem .
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Offline capodetutticapi

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Re: How would you compare our present day players to those of the past
« Reply #21 on: May 21, 2009, 07:31:53 PM »
right now i'll take de strike squad over de warriors.
soon ah go b ah lean mean bulling machine.

Offline Coop's

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Re: How would you compare our present day players to those of the past
« Reply #22 on: May 21, 2009, 07:45:27 PM »
The 73 team did not make a W/c because they get thief in Haiti. Just imagine Latapy and Yorke still needed, we begging for Dog and Avery to come back. Men on this forum mentioning that KJ cant trap a ball properly, yet we comparing footballers from the past to this present crop. For those of you who have not seen the likes of Alvin Corneal, Kelvin Berassa, Carlton Franco. Or those who did not see football at PSA- Chinapoo- The last of the red men- Sammy L- Ron Laforest, keep quiet. Even COOPS posting on this board better than anything in a football boots today.


I go ask de question again ...What has any team from de 70s or 90s accomplish ? And if they were so great or better why they had tuh fight up tuh beat team like Barbados and Suriname ? I was in de oval when Barbados put water in we eye ,remember Tom Phillip flick  ;) Today we washing de likes ah Barbados every time we meet dem .

     Come on Berris,what was the score in that game you saw it?you saw the game i played in it,did you know we went Barbados and gave them threeafter that

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Re: How would you compare our present day players to those of the past
« Reply #23 on: May 21, 2009, 08:34:31 PM »
right now i'll take de strike squad over de warriors.
I go take de Classic '73 team over de Squad ;)
« Last Edit: May 21, 2009, 08:45:56 PM by Werklmann »
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Offline Deeks

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Re: How would you compare our present day players to those of the past
« Reply #24 on: May 21, 2009, 09:30:28 PM »
Berris,
         I aint taking nothing away for the current crop of players. But It difficult to compare eras. The current players are fortunate to have more opportunies to play abroad than the players of yesteryear. We know for a fact the EPL  were not ready for foreigners, especially Africans and WI. They were very few playing in the lower divison and they caught hell(monkey chants, etc). The old players had to ply their trade in the novice league of the US.

     Now, while we have more guys playing in England and some are quite outstanding for their various teams, their performance for the national team is  left much to be desired. We have explored the many reasons for this on the forum before, so I ain't going anywhere further with that.

The present day player has the good fortunate of TV and the internet. We can see all the "super stars" on U-tube, etc at our finger tips. Long ago was newspapers accounts if you did not go the the savannah, the Oval, Geo V, PSA or St. Mary's(POSFL use to play games at Saints ground at one time) or simply word of mouth account of the game.

When I was growing up the number one strikers was Buggy Haynes(Malvern), Steve David, Wilfred Cave, Kenny Joseph. Then Sammy, Ron La, Tom Philips, Coops came in the mix. Were they better than Dwight , Stern and KJ. It is hard for me to say. All we know is that the young ones had the opportunities to fullfil their potential in the top leagues, while the former had to play for the love of the game while working on the port, the sugar mills or the oil refineries, police, army or (probably get some money under the table) or hope to play in the NASL

TT performace long ago as to the present team is relative. The Haitian and Suriname teams were good, or at times slightly better than TT. Nowadys those teams  are poor because of years of economic issues. It hard for all yuh to envisage that because all yuh were not around. The bajan team that beat TT was a good team. The team was made up mostly of Pan Am Wales(about 8 players). The BFA hired a German coach called Fischer and they went Germany for about a month and gave TT a run for their money when they came back for the WC. They beat TT 2-1 in B'dos. We beat 1 -0 in the Oval and then beat them 3-1 in B'dos. But that was good footbal B'dos had a nice brand. Gas Clarke and the Goodard brothers were excellent. The oval was packed. A next time we play B'dos Olimpic football in the oval on a mid-week. 20,000 in the oval. All yuh ain't go understand that. That is why I am a ball jumbie.

And a correction, the game Tom attempted that flick was against Suriname in the Oval. I think Coops scored for we.  

Offline palos

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Re: How would you compare our present day players to those of the past
« Reply #25 on: May 22, 2009, 01:22:12 AM »
Berris,
         I aint taking nothing away for the current crop of players. But It difficult to compare eras. The current players are fortunate to have more opportunies to play abroad than the players of yesteryear. We know for a fact the EPL  were not ready for foreigners, especially Africans and WI. They were very few playing in the lower divison and they caught hell(monkey chants, etc). The old players had to ply their trade in the novice league of the US.

     Now, while we have more guys playing in England and some are quite outstanding for their various teams, their performance for the national team is  left much to be desired. We have explored the many reasons for this on the forum before, so I ain't going anywhere further with that.

The present day player has the good fortunate of TV and the internet. We can see all the "super stars" on U-tube, etc at our finger tips. Long ago was newspapers accounts if you did not go the the savannah, the Oval, Geo V, PSA or St. Mary's(POSFL use to play games at Saints ground at one time) or simply word of mouth account of the game.

When I was growing up the number one strikers was Buggy Haynes(Malvern), Steve David, Wilfred Cave, Kenny Joseph. Then Sammy, Ron La, Tom Philips, Coops came in the mix. Were they better than Dwight , Stern and KJ. It is hard for me to say. All we know is that the young ones had the opportunities to fullfil their potential in the top leagues, while the former had to play for the love of the game while working on the port, the sugar mills or the oil refineries, police, army or (probably get some money under the table) or hope to play in the NASL

TT performace long ago as to the present team is relative. The Haitian and Suriname teams were good, or at times slightly better than TT. Nowadys those teams  are poor because of years of economic issues. It hard for all yuh to envisage that because all yuh were not around. The bajan team that beat TT was a good team. The team was made up mostly of Pan Am Wales(about 8 players). The BFA hired a German coach called Fischer and they went Germany for about a month and gave TT a run for their money when they came back for the WC. They beat TT 2-1 in B'dos. We beat 1 -0 in the Oval and then beat them 3-1 in B'dos. But that was good footbal B'dos had a nice brand. Gas Clarke and the Goodard brothers were excellent. The oval was packed. A next time we play B'dos Olimpic football in the oval on a mid-week. 20,000 in the oval. All yuh ain't go understand that. That is why I am a ball jumbie.

And a correction, the game Tom attempted that flick was against Suriname in the Oval. I think Coops scored for we.  

Steupes.  Is Barbados yuh talkin bolut Deeks.  At NO TIME IN DEM EXISTENCE were they any kind of football power in de region.  Slates have it absolutely correck.  In dem times, man was lookikn at we top players and sayin dey good because dey was playin against players who weren't any better than them.  Now we players gettin compared to who man seein on TV regular, week in...week out.  Yuh seein de best players in de world every single week.  Back in de day, de only time yuh seein Pele on TV was durin a world cup...if yuh lucky.

How yuh explain when Charlie Cooke and dem so used to come down and play we national team wit all we "stars" and ress a easy 5 and 6 on we.  And dem English teams dem times was nowhere near as strong as they are now.  Now we playin ENGLAND in World Cup and takin dem to de 80th minute before dey score.  Play Sweden with 10 men and draw.  In de World Cup Finals.  Nah Deeks....players today better in general.  Yuh go always have 1 or 2 exceptions but doh let nostalgia tie yuh up.
« Last Edit: May 22, 2009, 01:24:24 AM by palos »
Carlos "The Rolls Royce" Edwards

Offline injunchile

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Re: How would you compare our present day players to those of the past
« Reply #26 on: May 22, 2009, 06:38:27 AM »
The past was never that good and the present is never that Bad.

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Re: How would you compare our present day players to those of the past
« Reply #27 on: May 22, 2009, 06:58:38 AM »
Berris,
         I aint taking nothing away for the current crop of players. But It difficult to compare eras. The current players are fortunate to have more opportunies to play abroad than the players of yesteryear. We know for a fact the EPL  were not ready for foreigners, especially Africans and WI. They were very few playing in the lower divison and they caught hell(monkey chants, etc). The old players had to ply their trade in the novice league of the US.

     Now, while we have more guys playing in England and some are quite outstanding for their various teams, their performance for the national team is  left much to be desired. We have explored the many reasons for this on the forum before, so I ain't going anywhere further with that.

The present day player has the good fortunate of TV and the internet. We can see all the "super stars" on U-tube, etc at our finger tips. Long ago was newspapers accounts if you did not go the the savannah, the Oval, Geo V, PSA or St. Mary's(POSFL use to play games at Saints ground at one time) or simply word of mouth account of the game.

When I was growing up the number one strikers was Buggy Haynes(Malvern), Steve David, Wilfred Cave, Kenny Joseph. Then Sammy, Ron La, Tom Philips, Coops came in the mix. Were they better than Dwight , Stern and KJ. It is hard for me to say. All we know is that the young ones had the opportunities to fullfil their potential in the top leagues, while the former had to play for the love of the game while working on the port, the sugar mills or the oil refineries, police, army or (probably get some money under the table) or hope to play in the NASL

TT performace long ago as to the present team is relative. The Haitian and Suriname teams were good, or at times slightly better than TT. Nowadys those teams  are poor because of years of economic issues. It hard for all yuh to envisage that because all yuh were not around. The bajan team that beat TT was a good team. The team was made up mostly of Pan Am Wales(about 8 players). The BFA hired a German coach called Fischer and they went Germany for about a month and gave TT a run for their money when they came back for the WC. They beat TT 2-1 in B'dos. We beat 1 -0 in the Oval and then beat them 3-1 in B'dos. But that was good footbal B'dos had a nice brand. Gas Clarke and the Goodard brothers were excellent. The oval was packed. A next time we play B'dos Olimpic football in the oval on a mid-week. 20,000 in the oval. All yuh ain't go understand that. That is why I am a ball jumbie.

And a correction, the game Tom attempted that flick was against Suriname in the Oval. I think Coops scored for we.  
    Breds thanks you speak for guys like me.

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Re: How would you compare our present day players to those of the past
« Reply #28 on: May 22, 2009, 03:29:36 PM »
Palos,
        No English team ever come down in TT and give them 6 when I was around. Maybe in all yuh time. When Charlie Cook came down with Chelsea, they were the FA and UEFA cup champions. Chelsea had all the their stars for that game. Bonetti, Alan Hudson(one of the best mid-fielders England ever produce, Alf Ramsey did not like him), Peter Osgood. Our team was all local. Figeroux, Rondon, Murren, Dennie, Texiera, Arnim David, Jimmy Springer , Buggy, ray Roberts, Keith Reno, Ulric Boxhill, Leo Brewster. At times Chelsea school TT with their one touch and their positional play. We match them with speed, fitness and individual skill. Chelsea had about 60% possesion of the ball. They beat us 3-2. Buggy and Ray Roberts score. We also play Southhampton and lost 1-0 in Skinner Park. We played Hull City, St. Mirren, Nautico(Brazil)  and all the performance were credible for an amateur team playing pros.  Venezuela came to TTand got hammered  in the 3 games we played them. Ven. send a university side. They  think TT was soft. Buggy and Steve David bust one set a goal on them.
                    Bro in the late 60's and early 70's when only on team use to qualify for WC, Mex. was top dog. In the Caribbean, Haiti, Suriname, TT/Cuba were the top teams.  Martinique and Quadeloupe were good but they could not play WC. I telling all yuh, B'dos team with the Goodard bros was a good team. JA was going thru a real funk. They had good individuals(Cole, Woodstock, Art Welch) but Cuba and Haiti use to pass them out in WC and Olimpics early o'clock. All yuh would not know that. Because all yuh was not dey. All yuh talking to the ultimate ball-jumbie.  That is ME.

We should have gone to the 74 WC. Poor refereeing mess we up. How we would have done is a different story. Haiti got beat up, but they scored a goal. After 74, a combination of the bummbling TTFA, lack of gov't and business support, and all know who, are some of the things that has retarded TT football. The passion and crowd support was incredible in my times.I ain't exaggerating. That is a fact. The players nowadays maybe stronger and faster and have more opportunities, but with the exception of the recent WC team performance in Germany, the performances of the current teams are POOR.

Offline palos

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Re: How would you compare our present day players to those of the past
« Reply #29 on: May 22, 2009, 03:53:17 PM »
We should have gone to the 74 WC. Poor refereeing mess we up.

Let's put that MYTH to bed once and for all.

That qualifying tournament was held in Haiti in 1973

It was a round robin tournament with each team playing each other once.  Total points decided who went to Germany

The teams in the competition were:

Guatemala
Honduras
Haiti
Mexico
Netherland Antilles
Trinidad & Tobago

Our 1st match was against Honduras.  We lost 2-1.  Most people conveniently forget that fact when talking about we should have gone to Germany.

Our 2nd match was against Haiti.  That was the controversial match where we scored 4 times and "lost" 2-1

Our 3rd match was against Guatemala who we beat 1-0

Our 4th match we beat Mexico 4-0

Going into the final round of matches....Haiti had already qualified for Germany because they had won their 4 matches up to that point.  Their final match against Mexico was therefore meaningless.  A match in which they lost 1-0.

So yes.....all things being equal....had we won against Haiti, we would have been in an excellent position to qualify.  But the game that REALLY sunk us was NOT the Haiti match but the 1st match against Honduras which we lost.

Had we not lost that game, it would not have mattered if Haiti "beat" us because we had a superior goal difference.
Carlos "The Rolls Royce" Edwards