Where was the Defense?

[ribbit]

how else was he supposed to reach that ball? the problem was not that he tried the diving header, the problem was he  was not marking the guy. if he  was he would not  have to try the diving header. if u c the replay again look at what dog did. he started marking the guy  b4 the cross came in but then gradually drifted away from the guy  in anticipation of stopping the cross or the crosser

completely agree. even with the 2nd goal, the CR attackers stop going forward, all three defenders back and heading de ball to the unmarked attackers. these defenders not marking and the CR players did almost nothing to lose them!

[dreamer]

I might be crazy   but maybe a thought to try Birchell at the Center back with Lawrence. He is solid at defending, decent in the air   and could cover    Lawrence......

Sorry Obs. I know you mean well. We all trying hard to help Latas find de magic solution.

[GunnerStunner]

ball watching and basic defensive errors cost us bad

[Arimaman]

I might be crazy but maybe a thought to try Birchell at the Center back with Lawrence. He is solid at defending, decent in the air and could cover Lawrence. Is not like Mexico big and tall up front.

Nah sah..that eh go wok...Birchall is not a defender, especially central defender.

[Arimaman]

Keyeno Thomas has not had a bad game in defense yet in the hex.  He has been our most consistent defender in qualifying so far (apart from the injuries).  Why was he benched?  Like Latapy forget de slogan "if it aint broke don't fix it".  Central defense was not our big problem defensively.  The wings were the problem along with the fact that Keon Daniel never performed his defensive duties while Akile Edwards took all the blame.

     Latapy eh forget nothing,peeps on here feel Latas is he own boss but is the same thing all other Coaches went through,Latas playing who he is told to play.The consencus here is that they rather experience than work with younger players so that they can gain experience,Tallest and them pulling stones all the time but Coaches always taking the blame for them,this is one game you can't hide all of them going to get expose,the difference now is nobody wants to blame Latas so players getting it even Yorke,i'm glad to see the table has turned and peeps are starting to blame players instead of Coach.      

Coops I totally disagree here.  Latas didn't come begging for the wok, they went after him.  He is his own man and making his own selections.  I said this before, the one thing I was worried about Latas was whether or not he would put friend in front of country i.e. playing dog instread of Keyeno...

I believe Latas will stamp his authority on the team.  Is only one game and he cyar work miracles but team selection is critical to our well being.

[Babalawo]

Get Samuel Jlloyd here right now JW!!

And time to buf Dwight Yorke too.  He didnt hustle back fast enough to help the defence with he old, aint play in months legs

[Brownsugar]

Get Samuel Jlloyd here right now JW!!

And time to buf Dwight Yorke too.  He didnt hustle back fast enough to help the defence with he old, aint play in months legs

As much as I want to be biased and say "Yipppeee Dwight played the full game!!!", I'd only be saying it out of sentimental reasons....he should not have played the full 90....he could have been replaced with Birchall perhaps?? 
Or is it that we have the same problem as the 2 centre backs...if not him then who??....

[Bourbon]

Get Samuel Jlloyd here right now JW!!

And time to buf Dwight Yorke too.  He didnt hustle back fast enough to help the defence with he old, aint play in months legs

As much as I want to be biased and say "Yipppeee Dwight played the full game!!!", I'd only be saying it out of sentimental reasons....he should not have played the full 90....he could have been replaced with Birchall perhaps?? 
Or is it that we have the same problem as the 2 centre backs...if not him then who??....

T&T: 1.Clayton Ince, 16.Silvio Spann, 4.Marvin Andrews, 6.Dennis Lawrence, 3.Avery John, 11.Carlos Edwards, 17.Dwight Yorke (capt), 8.Trent Noel, 10.Hayden Tinto, 20.Jason Scotland, 15.Kenwyne Jones.

T&T Subs: 7.Christopher Birchall, 2.Makan Hislop, 19.Keon Daniel, 12.Collin Samuel, 13.Cornell Glen, 5.Keyeno Thomas, 21.Marvin Phillip.

Of the subs....only 3 could be considered defensive : Birchall...Hislop....Thomas. If thomas did start....yuh woulda hear noise why Dog on de bench. Same with Makan.  Buh...a midfield with a 37 year old dwight yorke who eh play a game in the longest while and silvio spann who does look terrible when placed at right back because he not defensively sound was expected to provide cover for a defence with two central defenders who while formidable in the air....slow like a stampede of turtles. I dunno if more defensive tactics might be employed in mexico..and due to the altitude....birchall and theobald get a rest cuz dey hadda run dey lungs out Wednesday. I doh know....ize not no coach...i eh have no badges yet or no certificate. All i have is internet access. But to me de quality of defence was made glaringly obvious because it had no midfield cover. None. And I starting to worry bout if i wrong because like ize de only person who seeing it or thinking it important enough to warrant mention here. Probably I am yes. Four games gone.....9 points squandered...but we have 18 to play for to bring us to a grand total of 20. Faith is supposed to be the belief in things hoped for..the evidence of things not seen. I eh seeing how we going South Africa unless dem fundamental mistakes get corrected.....buh..dahs wha faith is about.

[Brownsugar]

hhhhmmmm ah hear yuh Bourbon....I haven't yet seen a replay of the game to be able to fully appreciate what yuh saying....when I do I'll try to look for the midfield errors you point out here....

Speaking of replay...anybody download the thing from CNMG and want to share??  Please and thanks....

[dreamer]

Bourbon yuh wukkin' overtime dread. Ah hearing a desperate passion to help nudge de discourse. Keep it up.
This football has so much nuanced tactics it eh funny.
Well hear dis, one could say that in the rarified air of Azteca, with men having to "run dey lungs out", one would be tempted to say Yorke cyah make more than a half in dat. But on de contrary, one key to surviving that kinda low oxygen situation, is to avoid ball chasing and hold POSSESSION, like gold. Therefore: Yorke, the best ball holder (bar Latas) on de side will be crucial. He will play right thru the 90. Ent? Otherwise Theobald will have to take over after.

[spideybuff]

Hmmm...I not sure how much of allyuh watch the game but Andrews and Avery John added a lot to our defence. They attacked the ball with aggression and we looked much better as a unit. The goals were down to individual mistakes, two of which were to Dennis Lawrence who was guilty of ball watching and losing his man. Yorke was a huge liability as he definitely ran out of steam and the team basically fell apart when Cornell replaced Spann and we switched to a 4-3-3...but Latas really had no choice as we were chasing a goal and he figured we needed Dwight experience on the field.

But Lawrence and Yorke were the main reasons for the goals and the third one came when Lawrence had been sent up to play striker. However, I not crucifying Lawrence so soon and from where I sat the Big Dog was definitely an asset.

[Bourbon]

Bourbon yuh wukkin' overtime dread. Ah hearing a desperate passion to help nudge de discourse. Keep it up.
This football has so much nuanced tactics it eh funny.
Well hear dis, one could say that in the rarified air of Azteca with men having to "run dey lungs out" one would be tempted to say Yorke cyah make more than a half in dat. Bot on de contrary, one key to surviving that kinda low oxygen situation is to avoid baqll chasing and hold POSSESSION, like gold. Therefore: Yorke, the best ball holder (bar Latas) on de side. He will play right thru the 90.

Hope allyuh doh cuss when allyuh see a midfield of birchall theobald and yorke nah. And even so....holding posession...wha dey going and do with it? De talk is to make the ball do the work...buh...unless men advance into positions.....de more likely to get caught in posesssion close to our defensive third. Buh...maybe i over thinking. Maybe is a 4-5-1...with jones up top....tinto and samuel on de wings..and yorke birchall and theobald in de middle. Buh.....dahs just me.

[sHOTTA)]

 I was surprised Andrews got the start, he doesn't look fit. Dennis made alot of mistakes too just as he did in the USA game. I don't agree with Yorke been too old thou, he is the captain and the things you don't see with the naked eye sometimes is the gel holding it together.  Yorke is an entertainer, I would watch him play at fifty five.

[spideybuff]

I was surprised Andrews got the start, he doesn't look fit. Dennis made alot of mistakes too just as he did in the USA game. I don't agree with Yorke been too old thou, he is the captain and the things you don't see with the naked eye sometimes is the gel holding it together.  Yorke is an entertainer, I would watch him play at fifty five.

Yeah his influence on the pitch is more important than his performance on it. I really not sure if it is worse to have him as a liablity on the pitch when the 60th minute reach and he start to make bad passes and can't keep pace with the other teams attackers, or if he off the pitch and the team lose it's shape and it's composure anyway. Damned if we do, damned if we don't. He may not be too old, just not match fit...but since it is off season and he unemployed, I not seeing him getting match fit anytime soon.

I feel he should stay home for the rest of the year and join Tobago United as player/coach.

[Small Magician aka Wazza]

where were the help from the midfielders?

Latas placed too much emphasis on attacking... But all good attacking sides have 1 midfielder designated to help cover the defence.. and it's not like we have a United or Chelsea type defence..so why leave them so exposed?

Dropping Birchall proved decisive... hopefully He learnt from his error for the remainder of the campaign

[weary1969]

Hmmm...I not sure how much of allyuh watch the game but Andrews and Avery John added a lot to our defence. They attacked the ball with aggression and we looked much better as a unit. The goals were down to individual mistakes, two of which were to Dennis Lawrence who was guilty of ball watching and losing his man. Yorke was a huge liability as he definitely ran out of steam and the team basically fell apart when Cornell replaced Spann and we switched to a 4-3-3...but Latas really had no choice as we were chasing a goal and he figured we needed Dwight experience on the field.

But Lawrence and Yorke were the main reasons for the goals and the third one came when Lawrence had been sent up to play striker. However, I not crucifying Lawrence so soon and from where I sat the Big Dog was definitely an asset.

Cosignnnnnnnnnnnnnnn. We sat at d DYS and saw d game.

[Small Magician aka Wazza]

Hmmm...I not sure how much of allyuh watch the game but Andrews and Avery John added a lot to our defence. They attacked the ball with aggression and we looked much better as a unit. The goals were down to individual mistakes, two of which were to Dennis Lawrence who was guilty of ball watching and losing his man. Yorke was a huge liability as he definitely ran out of steam and the team basically fell apart when Cornell replaced Spann and we switched to a 4-3-3...but Latas really had no choice as we were chasing a goal and he figured we needed Dwight experience on the field.

But Lawrence and Yorke were the main reasons for the goals and the third one came when Lawrence had been sent up to play striker. However, I not crucifying Lawrence so soon and from where I sat the Big Dog was definitely an asset.

Cosignnnnnnnnnnnnnnn. We sat at d DYS and saw d game.

DOG AVERY AND CARLOS WERE MASSIVE

unfortunately Big Dennis had a poor game and was at fault for the second... the 1st was just a poor goal to concede... and the 3rd was equally disappointing....Yorkie wasnt sharp and had about 20 good minutes out of the 90..and that was a key factor in the loss

[weary1969]

Hmmm...I not sure how much of allyuh watch the game but Andrews and Avery John added a lot to our defence. They attacked the ball with aggression and we looked much better as a unit. The goals were down to individual mistakes, two of which were to Dennis Lawrence who was guilty of ball watching and losing his man. Yorke was a huge liability as he definitely ran out of steam and the team basically fell apart when Cornell replaced Spann and we switched to a 4-3-3...but Latas really had no choice as we were chasing a goal and he figured we needed Dwight experience on the field.

But Lawrence and Yorke were the main reasons for the goals and the third one came when Lawrence had been sent up to play striker. However, I not crucifying Lawrence so soon and from where I sat the Big Dog was definitely an asset.

Cosignnnnnnnnnnnnnnn. We sat at d DYS and saw d game.

DOG AVERY AND CARLOS WERE MASSIVE


Cosign. Tell d haterzzzzzzzzzzz who were not even in d twin island republic

[Small Magician aka Wazza]

doe take them on Weary.... only about 100 forumites here have football brains from attending and watching and supporting the lads of the past campaigns 110% .. so when we say this player was massive..we know what we are talking about

every single forumite who said Avery and Dog were shit are the one's to be laughed at when you read it... i feel sorry for them cuz i cant imagine being a fan of football and knowing nothing about the game

[weary1969]

doe take them on Weary.... only about 100 forumites here have football brains from attending and watching and supporting the lads of the past campaigns 110% .. so when we say this player was massive..we know what we are talking about

every single forumite who said Avery and Dog were shit are the one's to be laughed at when you read it... i feel sorry for them cuz i cant imagine being a fan of football and knowing nothing about the game

Amen dem does make meh feel like a 1000 watts bulb BRIGHTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT

[Weh-it-is]

When glad men learn what defence is all about then we could become better.  Clean up! That is it, plain and simple... clean up. Marvin Dogg did not clean up after Lawrence and Lawrence did not clean up after dogg shit. Carlos was not at fault, he played that winger all the way and did not lapse unless he had foul de man. Our first stopper and last were our weakest links.

hoss when last u watch football? what first & last stopper u talking about?! them days gone since the start of the 90's. NOBODY does play wit that defensive formation anywhere anymore, it's all about 2 CBs.

 You miss de whole point and went on first and last stopper. That is not de the focus breds. Ok...back to what we was talking about. Men need to learn to cover each other more so than ball watching. There were time when players were unmarked in the box. Why are experience defenders still ball watching than man marking?

[Observer]

I might be crazy but maybe a thought to try Birchell at the Center back with Lawrence. He is solid at defending, decent in the air and could cover Lawrence. Is not like Mexico big and tall up front.

Nah sah..that eh go wok...Birchall is not a defender, especially central defender.

Well if I was watching T&T for the first time against CR, I would of come to the same conclusion about the two central defenders that played 

[lefty]

T&T: 1.Clayton Ince, 16.Silvio Spann, 4.Marvin Andrews, 6.Dennis Lawrence, 3.Avery John, 11.Carlos Edwards, 17.Dwight Yorke (capt), 8.Trent Noel, 10.Hayden Tinto, 20.Jason Scotland, 15.Kenwyne Jones.

T&T Subs: 7.Christopher Birchall, 2.Makan Hislop, 19.Keon Daniel, 12.Collin Samuel, 13.Cornell Glen, 5.Keyeno Thomas, 21.Marvin Phillip.

Of the subs....only 3 could be considered defensive : Birchall...Hislop....Thomas. If thomas did start....yuh woulda hear noise why Dog on de bench. Same with Makan.  Buh...a midfield with a 37 year old dwight yorke who eh play a game in the longest while and silvio spann who does look terrible when placed at right back because he not defensively sound was expected to provide cover for a defence with two central defenders who while formidable in the air....slow like a stampede of turtles. I dunno if more defensive tactics might be employed in mexico..and due to the altitude....birchall and theobald get a rest cuz dey hadda run dey lungs out Wednesday. I doh know....ize not no coach...i eh have no badges yet or no certificate. All i have is internet access. But to me de quality of defence was made glaringly obvious because it had no midfield cover. None. And I starting to worry bout if i wrong because like ize de only person who seeing it or thinking it important enough to warrant mention here. Probably I am yes. Four games gone.....9 points squandered...but we have 18 to play for to bring us to a grand total of 20. Faith is supposed to be the belief in things hoped for..the evidence of things not seen. I eh seeing how we going South Africa unless dem fundamental mistakes get corrected.....buh..dahs wha faith is about.

oh gawd  yeah dat wake mih up

[fordy]

Get Samuel Jlloyd here right now JW!!

And time to buf Dwight Yorke too.  He didnt hustle back fast enough to help the defence with he old, aint play in months legs

As much as I want to be biased and say "Yipppeee Dwight played the full game!!!", I'd only be saying it out of sentimental reasons....he should not have played the full 90....he could have been replaced with Birchall perhaps?? 
Or is it that we have the same problem as the 2 centre backs...if not him then who??....

T&T: 1.Clayton Ince, 16.Silvio Spann, 4.Marvin Andrews, 6.Dennis Lawrence, 3.Avery John, 11.Carlos Edwards, 17.Dwight Yorke (capt), 8.Trent Noel, 10.Hayden Tinto, 20.Jason Scotland, 15.Kenwyne Jones.

T&T Subs: 7.Christopher Birchall, 2.Makan Hislop, 19.Keon Daniel, 12.Collin Samuel, 13.Cornell Glen, 5.Keyeno Thomas, 21.Marvin Phillip.

Of the subs....only 3 could be considered defensive : Birchall...Hislop....Thomas. If thomas did start....yuh woulda hear noise why Dog on de bench. Same with Makan.  Buh...a midfield with a 37 year old dwight yorke who eh play a game in the longest while and silvio spann who does look terrible when placed at right back because he not defensively sound was expected to provide cover for a defence with two central defenders who while formidable in the air....slow like a stampede of turtles. I dunno if more defensive tactics might be employed in mexico..and due to the altitude....birchall and theobald get a rest cuz dey hadda run dey lungs out Wednesday. I doh know....ize not no coach...i eh have no badges yet or no certificate. All i have is internet access. But to me de quality of defence was made glaringly obvious because it had no midfield cover. None. And I starting to worry bout if i wrong because like ize de only person who seeing it or thinking it important enough to warrant mention here. Probably I am yes. Four games gone.....9 points squandered...but we have 18 to play for to bring us to a grand total of 20. Faith is supposed to be the belief in things hoped for..the evidence of things not seen. I eh seeing how we going South Africa unless dem fundamental mistakes get corrected.....buh..dahs wha faith is about.

Bourbon check my first post on this thread! You and I are on the same page!!

[Arimaman]

where were the help from the midfielders?

Latas placed too much emphasis on attacking... But all good attacking sides have 1 midfielder designated to help cover the defence.. and it's not like we have a United or Chelsea type defence..so why leave them so exposed?

Dropping Birchall proved decisive... hopefully He learnt from his error for the remainder of the campaign

SM, please forgive meh here, I eh see the whole game just the highlights but how could we say the coach placed too much emphasis on attacking?  It's a home WC qualifier yuh have to WIN at home...  What he suppose to do...  Now going to Mexico is a different story but Latas had to go on the offensive.  In either case, I believe that offense is your best defense considering the sorry state of our defense.

With that said, Chris Birchall is a ball winner and that's why we need him on the field.

[Arimaman]

What's I notice on this board is men does watch the last event that occured prior to the goal.  On the first goal I could tell you there is absolutely no...absolutely no way that Carlos can allow the man to serve the ball from inside the 18 into the 6 yard box.  Same thing on the last goal, tallman diving in and turning his back allowing the man to serve the ball.  If the ball don't come across, neither of them goals score.  That in essence is the problem with the first goal and third goals not the fact that dog try a diving header and all kinda nonsense....

Another issue that I will agree with others, we have numbers in the box when the balls are served in, however, for a lack of defensive positioning the balls are being won by the offensive team, another set a stupidness.  Why that doesn't happen on the other end...because the blasted other teams attack the ball and don't ball watch.....

We giving away goals while we have to earn ours.  That is not coaching that is lack of execution....

[spideybuff]

yeah Carlos was definitely at fault for the first goal but it look like he was expecting Tinto to be there to help him and he didn't know which man to cover and get caught scrambling. It was a mistake and at this level you pay for mistakes, but I not crucifying them men over that. It was a new defensive strategy Latas employ regarding how the midfield was working and men were still learning their roles.

[Jah Gol]

Hmmm...I not sure how much of allyuh watch the game but Andrews and Avery John added a lot to our defence. They attacked the ball with aggression and we looked much better as a unit. The goals were down to individual mistakes, two of which were to Dennis Lawrence who was guilty of ball watching and losing his man. Yorke was a huge liability as he definitely ran out of steam and the team basically fell apart when Cornell replaced Spann and we switched to a 4-3-3...but Latas really had no choice as we were chasing a goal and he figured we needed Dwight experience on the field.

But Lawrence and Yorke were the main reasons for the goals and the third one came when Lawrence had been sent up to play striker. However, I not crucifying Lawrence so soon and from where I sat the Big Dog was definitely an asset.

I thought dog did very well. Overall the structure was decent too. We went to sleep on the goals yes but I thought Ince could have done better on at least one of those goals. However, I think we created too many opportunities to blame the defence for that game. Trent missed 2 Scotland missed 2 KJ could have done better on some 50/50 chances.

All the talk about Stern is shit and the goals had to come from midfielders, steups. I will say it loud "Stern John is the best goalscorer we have".

[fordy]

Hmmm...I not sure how much of allyuh watch the game but Andrews and Avery John added a lot to our defence. They attacked the ball with aggression and we looked much better as a unit. The goals were down to individual mistakes, two of which were to Dennis Lawrence who was guilty of ball watching and losing his man. Yorke was a huge liability as he definitely ran out of steam and the team basically fell apart when Cornell replaced Spann and we switched to a 4-3-3...but Latas really had no choice as we were chasing a goal and he figured we needed Dwight experience on the field.

But Lawrence and Yorke were the main reasons for the goals and the third one came when Lawrence had been sent up to play striker. However, I not crucifying Lawrence so soon and from where I sat the Big Dog was definitely an asset.

I thought dog did very well. Overall the structure was decent too. We went to sleep on the goals yes but I thought Ince could have done better on at least one of those goals. However, I think we created too many opportunities to blame the defence for that game. Trent missed 2 Scotland missed 2 KJ could have done better on some 50/50 chances.

All the talk about Stern is shit and the goals had to come from midfielders, steups. I will say it loud "Stern John is the best goalscorer we have".

oh lawd ah cosign that statement big time!!!! especially the one scotland get that KJ gave him that he kick over the bar!!

[Coach]

Latapy was never a defensive player but great attacking player, he can be a little short on helping a team play well defensively in his early days as a head coach at the international level, but he will learn as he gains experience.

1. Costa Rica game 1 v 1 defending around the penalty area his defenders were not closing down tight which could have prevented crosses that ended up as a goals.

2. Needs to have coverage and effective communications from second defender so that the 1st defender can be more effective on the attackers to at least force attackers back to use supporting players

3. Defenders in the the penalty area need to stop "ball gazing" and be focus on both man and ball, and not just ball alone. We had more defenders in our penalty area and CR player still got a free shot to score.

4. Great defensive teams communicate well all game even the keeper.