Confederations Cup Thread

[kicker]

I was calling for Alves and Pato from the half. Dunga looked way too passive.

Can't believe Ronaldinho can't make this side...they have no imagination.
Robinho is a disappointment as usual.

The Brazilian attack depends almost entirely on Kaka and Robinho winning individual battles. It is not an attack based on much collective play/ball movement. If Kaka and Robinho have trouble springing free, Brazil has next to nada. Dat, apparently is Dunga's plan and he sticking with it. It often works, but every so often yuh see a game like this from Brazil. Gilberto Silva needs to go. Anderson need to be playing dat role and it's in these kinda tournaments he supposed to be getting groomed. He adds a lot more ability on the ball and is strong defensively.

And yes...Brazil needs Dinho. And altho he has been medicre for the senior team, I think yuh need Diego for games like this. And start grooming Hernanes from SP.....dat is a bad bad #10

hear nah....I calling for de Fat Man too. He play some boss ball in his last two games. And he might atually be getting fatter.

Brazil doh usually play toots twice in a row, so I kinda expect dem to come good in the final. But before SA 2010, something hadda change

Yep, experiment in progress. Interesting observations.

What I will say is Ramires is one don whose return ticket to South africa has been reserved.

He didn't look too good today, but yeah he's been a revelation this tourney- speed for days..

[Marcos]

I also not really sold on Maicon being better than Dani.
And why does he take all the corners? His crosses are terrible!

[Mango Chow!]

I was calling for Alves and Pato from the half. Dunga looked way too passive.

Can't believe Ronaldinho can't make this side...they have no imagination.
Robinho is a disappointment as usual.

  I tawt I was de only one tinkin' dat.  He has been given alot of credit for his play in this tournament but I eh really likin' what I seein'.  iI find he dribblin a lil too much.

Somehow I tort dribblin and too much dohapply tuh D Brazilians

  Yeah, but there were kwite a few instances where I felt he coulda shoot or pass and he end up dribbling and killin' de play.  I eh too vex, tho.  I jes' want dem bussup allyuh side on Sunday. 

[Observer]

What today's game showed was that when Brazil go on top early
many of the new players play with more composure & looked relaxed.
Under the stress of today's game, they showed panic and a lack of
composure & quality in their football. This was a good test for Dunga
to get a feel for his best squad.

[palos]

What today's game showed was that when Brazil go on top early
many of the new players play with more composure & looked relaxed.
Under the stress of today's game, they showed panic and a lack of
composure & quality in their football. This was a good test for Dunga
to get a feel for his best squad.

I like Ramires.  Nice player.

[frico]

This is brilliant news for CONCACAF and we should be proud of what the US is doing to make our football acceptable the world over.The dismantling of the African Champions was great but beating Spain,well! no one can argue with that.I have said before that African football is over-hyped and Asian football is no where CONCACAF standard.I am backing USA to beat another over-hyped Brasil,who came close to losing to SA,a team that we beat before.Having said that we have ameeting with USA later on,we are going to turn things on its head by beating them,no probs.

[Brownsugar]

You start ah whole thread for this because uuuuuummmm.....

Chups....

[Mango Chow!]

I rel like these people who SWEAR that the usa's success somehow is "great for concacaf" is mind boggling.  I didn't see Australia's success do anything for Fiji or Papua New Guinea.

[acb]

I am backing USA to beat another over-hyped Brasil,who came close to losing to SA,a team that we beat before.

like you get temporary amnesia or what?

While Brasil might have come close to losing to SA, they completely annihilated the USA a little over a week ago 3-0, in a score that could have been easily in the double figures.

Enthusiasm is acceptable, but logic should creep in. Just up to last Sunday prior to the USA-Egypt matchup, the press and supporters were writing off Bob Bradley and this team.

Brasil will dismantle and dispatch the USA even easier than before.

If anything, this is a run of good fortune, no doubt - but not entirely sustainable.

[Mango Chow!]

I now read where the man call this Brazil team "over-hyped" oui!  Allyuh good, yes.....steups!

[E-man]

Torres: Back to square one
FIFA.com

Anyone expecting Spain to be in a state of shock after USA put an end to their historic runs of 15 consecutive wins and 35 games unbeaten should think again. Speaking to FIFA.com at the end of his side's 2-0 FIFA Confederations Cup semi-final defeat to the Americans, Fernando Torres vowed that La Roja will be going all out to win the play-off for third place and start all over again.

"What hurts most is going out in the semi-finals of a big competition, not the end of the run," explained the Liverpool goal-getter. "We knew that we couldn't possibly win every single game from now to the end of our careers and that the run would have to come to an end some day. We just didn't expect it to be here in South Africa, but that's the way it is. These things happen when you least expect them."

The blond-haired hitman, who notched a hat-trick in Spain's opening match against New Zealand, sees Sunday's match in Rustenburg as an opportunity to start yet another record-breaking sequence. "When you lose a game and you've got a lot of players who can barely remember the last time it happened, then it shows that you're on the right track. In fact, I'd rather this happen now than at the 2010 World Cup."

"We have to go back to square one now and start putting some more wins together," continued Torres before adding with a broad smile on his face, "I'd love us to go another 35 matches without losing. That would be great, especially with a World Cup in the middle."
I don't think anyone can say we ever showed a lack of respect to our opponents in that time. USA were the better side because they coped with the pressure we put on them and scored the goals.
Fernando Torres, Spain striker

Though El Niño and the rest of his team-mates appear to have taken defeat to the Americans in their stride, that does not mean to say they are relieved to see the end of a lengthy purple patch in which they earned the admiration of the entire footballing world. "Absolutely not," countered Torres emphatically. "I wanted us to win even more games. We didn't feel any extra pressure just because we were winning game after game. Something like that can only give you confidence. At the end of the day the USA took their chances up front, kept it tight at the back and deserved to win. You've got to congratulate them on that."

"The most important thing now is that we keep on showing the same down-to-earth approach as we did when we went all that time unbeaten," added the former Atletico Madrid prodigy. "I don't think anyone can say we ever showed a lack of respect to our opponents in that time. USA were the better side because they coped with the pressure we put on them and scored the goals. We'll try to take something out of the game and improve, just as we've been doing up to today."

Just to underline the scale of the Americans' achievement, only two sides (Finland in an October 2007 friendly and Italy in the quarter-finals of UEFA EURO 2008) have prevented the Spanish, spearheaded by the deadly duo of Torres and David Villa, from scoring in the last two and a half years.

In earning their notable win, Bob Bradley's side were brave up front and resolute at the back, qualities that Torres was well aware they possessed. "We saw how much better USA played with two strikers against Egypt, and when they decide to go on the offensive they are a really dangerous team. I still think we did ok though. We created chance after chance and didn't take any, while they put theirs away."

Spain's immediate priorities are Sunday's match for third place and the remainder of their qualification matches for the 2010 FIFA World Cup South Africa™. And as the gifted striker confirmed, their hunger for success remains undiminished. "Records are nice for everyone on the outside but as far as we concerned tonight is not the end for us. Far from it. The really big challenges are only just beginning."

[Deeks]

Mango,
          Austrailia no longer in the Oceania group. They in the Asian group. They don't played Papua etc any more.

[Mango Chow!]

Mango,
          Austrailia no longer in the Oceania group. They in the Asian group. They don't played Papua etc any more.

  Yeah, Deeks, I know.  But they only made the switch from Oceania to Asia since this current World Cup Campaign and they have qualified easily already.  Nobody ain't looking at that and saying that Oceania is all that good because Australia come over and beating people.

[Deeks]

I don't think that it was all that easy. Is just that the Aussies have improved their football. They have a lot of players in Europe and then they have the A league which is okay. Their is a passion for football even though Aussie rules is still the big game in town.

[Mango Chow!]

I don't think that it was all that easy. Is just that the Aussies have improved their football. They have a lot of players in Europe and then they have the A league which is okay. Their is a passion for football even though Aussie rules is still the big game in town.

  Either way, Deeks, my point remains.  Australia improved, and had they stayed in Oceania, their improvement would have been eminent.....but it didn't mean that the other teams in the confederation automatically begin to get recognized as world beaters.  the other teams HAVE to step up and match the dominant teams' success for things to change for the better for that confederation.  China is not automatically going to benefit form the successes of the other top AFC teams unless they go out, improve their game and get results.  Same goes for the teams in concacaf trying to get where the usa, Costa Rica and Mexico have been.   

[Deeks]

Well the fact remains that if the US, Mexico, CR improved to be world beaters on a regular basis, that means we have to improve to beat them( US, Mexico, CR) or at least keep up with them. In that way out football will have impproved. One thing those three teams have in come is that their associations are not afraid to spend money on them.

[Mango Chow!]

Well the fact remains that if the US, Mexico, CR improved to be world beaters on a regular basis, that means we have to improve to beat them( US, Mexico, CR) or at least keep up with them. In that way out football will have impproved. One thing those three teams have in come is that their associations are not afraid to spend money on them.

  Ok.....and again, the staus quo in concacaf has been the status quo for a long time( Mexico, usa and Costa Rica).....how have we (and any other concacaf teams) improved to consistently be competitive with them alone, far less to compete with teams in other confederations that you can really say concacaf is doing big things?  We have had Haiti in '74, Jamaica in '98 and T&T in '06 and the most we can say we have done for ourselves over that time frame is a jamaican victory over Japan and T&T's draw with Sweden.  How else has concacaf "benefited" from anything the status quo has done?  The only reason we have 3.5 slots in the World Cup isn't because fifa said "hey jack, we like how concacaf looking so we going to give you guys an extra 1.5 slots."  I hardly think so, Padnah. 

[Dinner Mints]

Mango Chow leh me break it down to you simple...

UEFA's prestige isn't determined by San Marino and Iceland. It's determined by Spain, Germany, Italy, etc. Its lesser teams' quality is measured by that standard.

The Premiership's prestige isn't determined by Fulham and Sunderland. It's determined by Liverpool, Man U, Arsenal, etc. Its lesser teams' quality is measured by that standard.

If de powerhouses of CONCACAF are perceived as shit, then CONCACAF is perceived as shit. Its lesser teams' quality is measured by that standard.

All who complaining about lack of quality warm-ups will continue to wait, because there will be no apparent benefit for quality teams in playing anyone in this confederation. All who concerned about the country's ranking, which affects our players' prospects for a work permit will have to chill. We ain't playing nobody bigger dan US and Mexico, and de higher their rankings the better for us. All who happy about 3 or 4 places will have to get used to 2. All who just want us to command respect from the footballing community will have to hold on wit that.

No matter how reluctant you may be to accept it, if our powerhouses perform well outside of CONCACAF, especially against highly-ranked opponents, it's beneficial to what we trying to achieve.

[Mango Chow!]

Mango Chow leh me break it down to you simple...

UEFA's prestige isn't determined by San Marino and Iceland. It's determined by Spain, Germany, Italy, etc. Its lesser teams' quality is measured by that standard.

The Premiership's prestige isn't determined by Fulham and Sunderland. It's determined by Liverpool, Man U, Arsenal, etc. Its lesser teams' quality is measured by that standard.

If de powerhouses of CONCACAF are perceived as shit, then CONCACAF is perceived as shit. Its lesser teams' quality is measured by that standard.

All who complaining about lack of quality warm-ups will continue to wait, because there will be no apparent benefit for quality teams in playing anyone in this confederation. All who concerned about the country's ranking, which affects our players' prospects for a work permit will have to chill. We ain't playing nobody bigger dan US and Mexico, and de higher their rankings the better for us. All who happy about 3 or 4 places will have to get used to 2.

No matter how reluctant you may be to accept it, if our powerhouses perform well outside of CONCACAF, especially against highly-ranked opponents, it's beneficial to what we trying to achieve. The least of which, I would assume, is commanding respect from the footballing community.

  Boss, your explanation, to me, which is the general consensus of those sharing your view, is all well and good if the improvements seen by the usa somehow can filter down to us and "therefore"......the "if this, then that" theory is all to simple to me but the bottom line is this:  the usa is improving consistently and everybody else (including us, T&T,) is not.  Maybe we will see something from Honduras and/or El Salvador if the make it to SA next year but concacaf is not that much more respected now just because the usa beat Spain yesterday.  the usa may get some respect but not concacaf.  As long as we and other fledgling teams keep on putting up the kind of hapless performances we did against Mexico or as we always do agains the same usa, concacaf is not going to budge.  Mexico, Costa Rica and usa will always be the great whites, and we are always going to be among the seals.  Every now and thaen, one of us is going to slip out into the open seas, but for the most part, we'll still continue to just be fodder on the field.   

[Deeks]

Mango,
             You already know why the Caribbean teams not improving. Good organization and money are the real reasons. We already know the TT situation. The problem with Haiti has more to do with political instablity than money. The are plenty of Haitian businesses in Miami/NY who can put money into football when they ready. With JA it maybe more about money than anything else.

[Mango Chow!]

Mango,
             You already know why the Caribbean teams not improving. Good organization and money are the real reasons. We already know the TT situation. The problem with Haiti has more to do with political instablity than money. The are plenty of Haitian businesses in Miami/NY who can put money into football when they ready. With JA it maybe more about money than anything else.

   Deeks, no matter the reason though, the end result is still the same.  Remember, too, there are many a country that having their own political, military and socioeconomic problems and their football is improving too eh.  Yuh could close yuh eye and pick any of them African teams and their problems might even be worse than ours.

[Deeks]

We can't compare with the Africans. There's so much talent there it is frightening. But Poverty,  and the hunger to succeed is the extra edge that they propably have that does put them over the top.

[Toppa]

This is brilliant news for CONCACAF and we should be proud of what the US is doing to make our football acceptable the world over.The dismantling of the African Champions was great but beating Spain,well! no one can argue with that.I have said before that African football is over-hyped and Asian football is no where CONCACAF standard.I am backing USA to beat another over-hyped Brasil,who came close to losing to SA,a team that we beat before.Having said that we have ameeting with USA later on,we are going to turn things on its head by beating them,no probs.

Allyuh sad yes.

[Mango Chow!]

This is brilliant news for CONCACAF and we should be proud of what the US is doing to make our football acceptable the world over.The dismantling of the African Champions was great but beating Spain,well! no one can argue with that.I have said before that African football is over-hyped and Asian football is no where CONCACAF standard.I am backing USA to beat another over-hyped Brasil,who came close to losing to SA,a team that we beat before.Having said that we have ameeting with USA later on,we are going to turn things on its head by beating them,no probs.

Allyuh sad yes.

  Leave de people chirren dem alone please, Toppa.

[Zeppo]

I rel like these people who SWEAR that the usa's success somehow is "great for concacaf" is mind boggling.  I didn't see Australia's success do anything for Fiji or Papua New Guinea.

Good performances by CONCACAF teams in the World Cup bring benefits to the region in the form of more places for CONCACAF teams at the World Cup.

In the 2002 World Cup both the USA and Mexico -- 2 out of the 3 CONCACAF teams there -- advanced from their group. That success was instrumental in getting the region a half spot for 2006: the same half spot that T&T used to qualify!

Currently Mexico is the only team in the region that has a seed for the next World Cup draw. This is because they consistently advance from their group at the WC finals. The USA's win against Spain, and the overall good performance in the Confederations Cup, will boost our rankings for sure. It still probably won't be enough to get us a seed for the 2010 draw, although that could happen if we win the Gold Cup. But it's still a long shot.

At any rate, if you want to see CONCACAF continue to hang onto that half spot for WC qualification -- and possibly earn another one -- then you should want to see the USA, Mexico and other teams from the region (like CR) perform well on the big stages.

[frico]

Awrite mates,I understand that the majority of people from our part of the world,Trinidad, are supporters of Brazil and to a greater degree African teams.I was also the same but I have changed my way of thinking about 10 years ago.I have seen so much football from those teams and sometimes it is difficult to believe that I am looking at Brasil,or say,Nigeria,Ghana or even SA.I dont intend to follow blindly the masses who still live on the past of a Brasil of the 70s,they are now quite a comparable team with anybody and not better by miles as some of you would have people believe.No one is denying the individual skills of the South Americans but over the last 10 or 15 years things are levelling out.
 We keep "bad mouthing" our own TT players but yesterday's performance by KAKA.....what do you expect me to say?WELL YOU AND I KNOW HE PLAYED WELL UP TO HIS EXOTIC NAME...kaka!!!!
I wouldn't have minded if it was Jones,Scotland or Stern but this Brasilian,isn't he some kindah God,as for Robinho
the less said the better,he playes one good match every 5 in the EPL.Lets not forget that SA is not even the 4th best African team,they put 2 defensive mid fielders out there and shut out the whole Brasilian mid field,complete lock out,arnt they superior footballers,superior skills,superior football brain,what a shame SA didn't put away that early header,dont forget we beat SA 2 years ago.The only parallell I can draw from this match is Chelsea vs Tobago United,as you have noticed I haven't said anything about African football,that is simple,there is nothing to be said.I'll say again USA to beat Brasil,I hope you blokes dont start to cuss me now coz I've still got feelings for Africa and South America,not the same like when ah was young and blind.

[asylumseeker]

I was calling for Alves and Pato from the half. Dunga looked way too passive.

Can't believe Ronaldinho can't make this side...they have no imagination.
Robinho is a disappointment as usual.

  I tawt I was de only one tinkin' dat.  He has been given alot of credit for his play in this tournament but I eh really likin' what I seein'.  iI find he dribblin a lil too much.

Somehow I tort dribblin and too much dohapply tuh D Brazilians

  Yeah, but there were kwite a few instances where I felt he coulda shoot or pass and he end up dribbling and killin' de play.  I eh too vex, tho.  I jes' want dem bussup allyuh side on Sunday. 

In the mix though was a lot of holding up the ball for off the ball movement ... he got what he was looking for more times than not.

[Mango Chow!]

Awrite mates,I understand that the majority of people from our part of the world,Trinidad, are supporters of Brazil and to a greater degree African teams.I was also the same but I have changed my way of thinking about 10 years ago.I have seen so much football from those teams and sometimes it is difficult to believe that I am looking at Brasil,or say,Nigeria,Ghana or even SA.I dont intend to follow blindly the masses who still live on the past of a Brasil of the 70s,they are now quite a comparable team with anybody and not better by miles as some of you would have people believe.No one is denying the individual skills of the South Americans but over the last 10 or 15 years things are levelling out.
 We keep "bad mouthing" our own TT players but yesterday's performance by KAKA.....what do you expect me to say?WELL YOU AND I KNOW HE PLAYED WELL UP TO HIS EXOTIC NAME...kaka!!!!
I wouldn't have minded if it was Jones,Scotland or Stern but this Brasilian,isn't he some kindah God,as for Robinho
the less said the better,he playes one good match every 5 in the EPL.Lets not forget that SA is not even the 4th best African team,they put 2 defensive mid fielders out there and shut out the whole Brasilian mid field,complete lock out,arnt they superior footballers,superior skills,superior football brain,what a shame SA didn't put away that early header,dont forget we beat SA 2 years ago.The only parallell I can draw from this match is Chelsea vs Tobago United,as you have noticed I haven't said anything about African football,that is simple,there is nothing to be said.I'll say again USA to beat Brasil,I hope you blokes dont start to cuss me now coz I've still got feelings for Africa and South America,not the same like when ah was young and blind.

  No need to still have "feelings for Africa and South America" boss, you can go and wrap yourself up in a red, white and blue flag and nobody'll oppress yuh for it.  It ain't no scene.  What you're suffering from is a severe case of waggonism.   The funny thing you saying here is your implication that Brazil hasn't played any attractive football for their real fans' liking since the 70's.   I could only laugh at that because while it may be arguable that the 1970 is the greatest team to ever win a World Cup, they looked absolutely terrible in Germany and were overshadowed by the host nation's performance (as Peru can attest to) in '78, and Brazil's game has changed (arguably out of necessity) ever since.  Sounds like you're using the age-old soundbite that commentators use of Brazil's fans wanting to still see them play "the beautiful game" as only they can play it and that isn't going to happen against today's opposition.  You think the usa is going to come out in anything more than a defensive-counterattacking posture on Sunday?  Think again.  They'll stack up their defense and.....well, you know the rest.   The African teams are still a work in progress.  Progress being the operative word.  

I rel like these people who SWEAR that the usa's success somehow is "great for concacaf" is mind boggling.  I didn't see Australia's success do anything for Fiji or Papua New Guinea.

Good performances by CONCACAF teams in the World Cup bring benefits to the region in the form of more places for CONCACAF teams at the World Cup.

In the 2002 World Cup both the USA and Mexico -- 2 out of the 3 CONCACAF teams there -- advanced from their group. That success was instrumental in getting the region a half spot for 2006: the same half spot that T&T used to qualify!

Currently Mexico is the only team in the region that has a seed for the next World Cup draw. This is because they consistently advance from their group at the WC finals. The USA's win against Spain, and the overall good performance in the Confederations Cup, will boost our rankings for sure. It still probably won't be enough to get us a seed for the 2010 draw, although that could happen if we win the Gold Cup. But it's still a long shot.

At any rate, if you want to see CONCACAF continue to hang onto that half spot for WC qualification -- and possibly earn another one -- then you should want to see the USA, Mexico and other teams from the region (like CR) perform well on the big stages.

 

   Listen, zip head, your last sentence embodies the one point I have been making all along, except, it doesn't apply to Costa Rica, who is already a member of the upper echelon of concacaf.  Any success they enjoy will only be seen as a return to form and not any improvement of the confederation.  To some extent, the same applies to El Salvador.  It's the OTHER TEAMS IN THE REGION that have to step up AND CONSISTENTLY PLAY WELL (and while that may especially apply to Canada, it especially applies to T&T, Jamaica, Cuba and Haiti and maybe even Guyana) in order for the confederation as a whole, to gain some modicum of respect.  I want you to go here:      
    http://www.socawarriors.net/forum/index.php?topic=44732.0    read question 11 and see how it applies to you in this particular discussion.  Here are some facts for you to consider:  Ever since the original WC in 1930 up until 1978, concacaf was ALWAYS given either 1 or 2 slots, and I want you to hold on to that point, but consider the following:  As the wheels of colonization started falling off, African nations in particular, started emerging to the point that they no longer had to go into a playoff between themselves and other confederations and CAF first started consistently getting their lone slot in 1970.  Just ONE SLOT.   Fifa made this change while the field for the WC was still only 16 teams.  There have twice been expansions to the field from 16 to 24 in 1982 and from 24 to 32 in 1998.   Over that period of time, concacaf has gained 1.5 additional slots and CAF has gained 4.  I am well aware of Trinidad having used that .5 slot to qualify for Germany and we can thank expansion and jack warner for that.  Now, if fifa decides with their mafia self to further expand the field from 32 to 36 or even 40 teams (because, remember, since the break-up of USSR, more and more teams are now emerging from Europe, and fifa is, after all, a European organization) maybe we can expect to get a slot or two, maybe. But even so, if the bottom-dwelling European and Asian and African teams start showing vast improvement across the board as opposed to the same teams over and over again, and the same three top teams in concacaf keep getting results, who do you think fifa are going to give those extra slots to?  concacaf?   You would have to be a jack-ass to believe that.  As it is, if we don't show consistency and produce results with that .5 slot in the playoffs against other confederations(now with CONMEBOL) we just might lose it for real because the other confederations are showing improvement across the board.  If the other concacaf teams don't improve, teams numbered 1 through 3 will always be a Mexico, usa and Costa Rica, and team number 3.5 will always be a T&T or Jamaica or Guatemala that would have a hard time playing off against any other confederation.  You can afford run your mouth and wave your flag because the usa is the likeliest team to be in the top 3, year after year and whether or not they get seeded has everything to do with their OWN performance and not anybody elses.  

[asylumseeker]

Re: South Africa and Brazil.

The match offered some info as far as the discussion regarding tactical prowess, buh ah will reserve that until the final. What I will say is that Santana probably gave us more of an interesting and entertaining platform for the game than would have Carlos Alberto Parreira.

If I have ah "beef" is that to be more threatening in open play, SA needed to get an additional player into the box. Two was more or less the constant. Set plays brought numbers forward but there wasn't any symmetry ... even Mokoena's header looked more opportunistic than convincing (when he got in between Lucio and Luisao). The hint fuh me is that practically every other green shirt seemed to be on a different page on what they expected of the delivery.

Other observation ... kinda relevant re: Maicon over Dani Alves ... having reviewed the first half, going forward SA had the opportunity to play a couple diagonal balls in behind Maicon, but elected to play the ball square in front of the attacker ... hence also in front of Maicon. These were not productive.

Perhaps they didn't want to get caught out on the counter ... but getting tucked in that space would have asked some questions of Dunga.

Will Santana be able to build on this? Or, did he pull this off based on his familiarity with the opposition? Cause there's that.  

[Brownsugar]

Mango Chow yuh have real patience.....