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Manchester United or Barcelona? Who's Treble Was Greater?

Manchester United
17 (53.1%)
Barcelona
15 (46.9%)

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Offline FF

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Re: Manchester United or Barcelona? Who's Treble Was Greater?
« Reply #30 on: August 07, 2009, 12:29:39 PM »
The original article is the correct answer!

The Barca treble team and brand is/was better!
But the Man U treble achievement was greater...

plus it had plenty more parity in football dem days.

Show me which part of this post makes sense?

Barcelona's treble was better than United's although United's achievement was greater?

 :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

Quote
plus it had plenty more parity in football dem days

?

There was not as much of a divide between the top teams in a given league and the rest. i.e. it was more competitive
« Last Edit: August 07, 2009, 12:31:28 PM by FF »
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Offline kicker

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Re: Manchester United or Barcelona? Who's Treble Was Greater?
« Reply #31 on: August 07, 2009, 01:08:50 PM »
The fact that all United/EPL fans will say that United's treble was better, and all Barca/La Liga will say that Barca's was better renders this discussion useless and lacking objectivity. 

There are arguments on both sides and I maintain that neither of the achievements should take the shine off the other....They were both monumental. 

It's one thing to say that Man U had stiffer competition, but that same argument can be used against them (i.e. Barca didn't face the same level of competition as Man U did, not because the level of competition was low, but because Barca themselves were that Great)...After all Barca did steamroll Man U in the CL final...A Man U squad that dominated England and coasted through much of the Champions' League and was being compared to the great treble winning side of 99....

The Barca of 2009 played a level of football that I've seen no other team in the modern game execute with that degree of consistency....and they did it with a style that football fans dream of.  They simply demolished teams...

The Man U of 1999 won games in the manner that movies are made of...Even when they didn't play well they were resilient and found ways to eke out victories.

Whichever you consider greater is a matter of preference and as this thread indicates- biased allegiance. 
« Last Edit: August 07, 2009, 01:14:00 PM by kicker »
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Offline dinho

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Re: Manchester United or Barcelona? Who's Treble Was Greater?
« Reply #32 on: August 07, 2009, 01:12:46 PM »
Barca's treble was greater because with all dem "epic" games Man U had in 99 (and they were epic)...Barca's feat was more incredible because aside from the Chelsea game in the 2nd leg, they took apart teams that were top teams in the sport.  it's the equivalent of Man U taking those same teams in 99 and trouncing all bar one of them. 

Along the way Barca decimated French Champions Lyon

Trounced German Champions Bayern Munich

And in the CL Final they dropped a thorough ass whipping on the team many (english) pundits were saying was the best team in the world.  That title was soon transferred by the same pundits to Barcelona (as if there was any doubt by TRUE football fans).

This was no fluke.  Aside from Chelsea in the 2nd leg of the CL semi final, they steamrolled ALL OPPOSITION including DESTROYING arch rivals and top club Real Madrid 6-2 ON REAL'S HOME TURF to execute the coup de grace for the La Liga title.

Yes Man U's triumph in 1999 was more dramatic, but as the CL Final showed, Barca's accomplishment and the manner in which they did it, destroying teams with classic...pure...attractive...attacking...DREAM football, is the stuff of legend.  Nothing has come close.

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Offline Toppa

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Re: Manchester United or Barcelona? Who's Treble Was Greater?
« Reply #33 on: August 07, 2009, 01:15:04 PM »
Barca's treble was greater because with all dem "epic" games Man U had in 99 (and they were epic)...Barca's feat was more incredible because aside from the Chelsea game in the 2nd leg, they took apart teams that were top teams in the sport.  it's the equivalent of Man U taking those same teams in 99 and trouncing all bar one of them. 

Along the way Barca decimated French Champions Lyon

Trounced German Champions Bayern Munich

And in the CL Final they dropped a thorough ass whipping on the team many (english) pundits were saying was the best team in the world.  That title was soon transferred by the same pundits to Barcelona (as if there was any doubt by TRUE football fans).

This was no fluke.  Aside from Chelsea in the 2nd leg of the CL semi final, they steamrolled ALL OPPOSITION including DESTROYING arch rivals and top club Real Madrid 6-2 ON REAL'S HOME TURF to execute the coup de grace for the La Liga title.

Yes Man U's triumph in 1999 was more dramatic, but as the CL Final showed, Barca's accomplishment and the manner in which they did it, destroying teams with classic...pure...attractive...attacking...DREAM football, is the stuff of legend.  Nothing has come close.

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Offline Giggsy's Chestwig

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Re: Manchester United or Barcelona? Who's Treble Was Greater?
« Reply #34 on: August 07, 2009, 06:00:42 PM »
Quote
they steamrolled ALL OPPOSITION including DESTROYING arch rivals and top club Real Madrid 6-2 ON REAL'S HOME TURF to execute the coup de grace for the La Liga title.

Not really a major achievement when you consider that Real are terribly inept at defending. They lost 10 league games last season. 10. They also conceeded 52 GOALS in La Liga alone...So 6-2 isn't that much of a big deal, imo.

I don't buy into this hyperbole about this new form of 'out of this World' brand of football.  They still managed to lose five games in the league which just backs up what I said before that they were never really challenged. United lost four games during the entire 1998/99 campaign...IN ALL COMPETITIONS. Taking into the account the teams they faced, you can't deny that their Treble has to be regarded as a monumental (and unrivaled) achievement.

Instead, you want to talk about 'football we've never seen before' yadda yadda yadda, a label that was thrown around when Cruyff was in charge there. 'The Dream Team' who played 'unbelievable, dream-like football'. Not as unbelievable as the 4-0 spanking Capellos Milan handed them in the 1994 Champions League final (for those of us who can think back that far).

Barcelona aren't unbeatable, five games lost in La Liga proves that...they're just very, very good.

I'll also go ahead and say that those people who dismiss Uniteds exploits in 1999 as being lucky should remember that Chelsea would have been in the final this year had it not been for some diabolical refereeing. I seem to remember Mr. 'I prefer dominance over luck' dinho moaning and complaining about how the referee won that semi final and how lucky Barcelona were in April...

Tsk. Tsk.

Quote
Along the way Barca decimated French Champions Lyon

Trounced German Champions Bayern Munich

Lyon are a good side, nothing more. You make them out to be some sort of European giant yet they never seem to get past the quarter final stage and play in a very weak domestic league. The Eredivisie is a stronger competition than Lique 1, so I'm assuming that you'll promote AZ Alkmaar to 'giant' status the moment somebody decent beats them? Lyon are so brilliant, that they've NEVER gotten past the quarter final stage and usually lose against the first decent side they come up against.

United eliminated them in the second round in 2008, yet I didn't hear anyone laud it as some fantastic achievement. In all honesty, United were expected to progress from that round...

As for Bayern Munich, they've been on the slide in Europe for a few years now. In fact, they've never gotten past the quarter final stage since 2001. Sounds like you're throwing Bayern into the mix for the sake of it to back up what you are saying. They've been a shadow of what they once were for a long time now. From 1998 to 2001, they were one of the best sides in Europe. Apart from Ribery, who from Bayern could you seriously call world class? In 1999 they had Elber, Effenberg, Basler, Lizarazu, Kahn and Kuffour...a truly fantastic group of players...

Then theres this beauty from FF:

Quote
There was not as much of a divide between the top teams in a given league and the rest. i.e. it was more competitive

So Barcelona's treble should be more highly regarded because European club football was more competitive in 1999?

Oh dear.






« Last Edit: August 07, 2009, 06:07:57 PM by Giggsy's Chestwig »

Offline freakazoid

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Re: Manchester United or Barcelona? Who's Treble Was Greater?
« Reply #35 on: August 07, 2009, 06:54:27 PM »
3=3
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Offline FF

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Re: Manchester United or Barcelona? Who's Treble Was Greater?
« Reply #36 on: August 07, 2009, 07:00:13 PM »
Then theres this beauty from FF:

Quote
There was not as much of a divide between the top teams in a given league and the rest. i.e. it was more competitive

So Barcelona's treble should be more highly regarded because European club football was more competitive in 1999?

Oh dear.



Jackarse... i convince you lacking in reading comprehension... convinced... I actually said the opposite...

go back and read the original article and then read what i post.

Typical Man U fan... so want to argue... they totally blind
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Offline freakazoid

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Re: Manchester United or Barcelona? Who's Treble Was Greater?
« Reply #37 on: August 07, 2009, 07:06:25 PM »
threads like these, make u know what kinna sh*t man using to make their manure
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Offline kicker

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Re: Manchester United or Barcelona? Who's Treble Was Greater?
« Reply #38 on: August 07, 2009, 07:21:25 PM »
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Offline acb

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Re: Manchester United or Barcelona? Who's Treble Was Greater?
« Reply #39 on: August 08, 2009, 07:47:08 AM »
somebody need to merge the ManUre fan application with this thread.
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Offline Toppa

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Re: Manchester United or Barcelona? Who's Treble Was Greater?
« Reply #40 on: August 08, 2009, 11:25:00 AM »
somebody need to merge the ManUre fan application with this thread.

http://www.livefootball.net/manchester-united-supporters.html

Mr Chestwig undoubtedly qualifies. What a name, btw.
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Offline Toppa

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Re: Manchester United or Barcelona? Who's Treble Was Greater?
« Reply #41 on: August 08, 2009, 11:29:32 AM »
Quote
they steamrolled ALL OPPOSITION including DESTROYING arch rivals and top club Real Madrid 6-2 ON REAL'S HOME TURF to execute the coup de grace for the La Liga title.

Not really a major achievement when you consider that Real are terribly inept at defending. They lost 10 league games last season. 10. They also conceeded 52 GOALS in La Liga alone...So 6-2 isn't that much of a big deal, imo.

I don't buy into this hyperbole about this new form of 'out of this World' brand of football.  They still managed to lose five games in the league which just backs up what I said before that they were never really challenged.


You call losing five games in the league NOT being challenged?

And Real Madrid had clawed back within four points of Barcelona so you take your time with yuh outta timing talk.

Let us not forget how injury ridden Real Madrid's squad was last year and how many starters were side-lined for lengthy periods and a couple crucial others for the entire season. It was so bad that they needed youth players to make up practice.
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Offline Filho

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Re: Manchester United or Barcelona? Who's Treble Was Greater?
« Reply #42 on: August 08, 2009, 11:50:47 AM »
For the fans that say ManU, the one thing you not considering is this....the ManU that was completely dsimantled by Barca last year would destroy the ManU of 99. Remember, Mourinho's Chelsea came in and completely revolutionize the level of play and points you need to win the EPL. I think there was a season that ManU finished a distant second to Chelsea and still had enough points to have broken the EPL record prior to that. So even in a space of 10 years, football is a whole different proposition now. Ball being played at an entire different level and pace.

But at the end of the day, like somebody said...3=3. Comparing trebles is kinda ridiculous.

Offline Giggsy's Chestwig

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Re: Manchester United or Barcelona? Who's Treble Was Greater?
« Reply #43 on: August 09, 2009, 11:02:40 AM »
Lets start with FF...

Quote
Jackarse... i convince you lacking in reading comprehension... convinced... I actually said the opposite...

Really?

Quote
The Barca treble team and brand is/was better!
But the Man U treble achievement was greater...

Barcelona's team and 'brand' is better but Uniteds treble was greater....but then you go on to say that the article is correct and Barcelona's treble was the better of the two...

And you want to lecture people on comprehension? I think you should dust down your hooked on phonics DVD or separate one of your split personalities.

Then you sit there in your corner and dribble some more about:

Quote
there was more parity in football in those days

Which suggests that football was more competitive then than it is now, which would mean that it would have actually been harder for United to win the treble then than it would be now. Huh?

And now we come to filho...

Quote
Ball being played at an entire different level and pace.

And yet United are STILL winning titles these days...

Quote
Mourinho's Chelsea came in and completely revolutionize the level of play and points you need to win the EPL.

Did he?

Chelsea finished with 95 points in 2004/05 (Mourino's first season in charge)
Chelsea finished with 91 points in 2005/06

Mourinho didn't really revolutionise anything. He broke the points record in 2004/05 by three points and then won the league the following season with the same points total that United achieved in 1999/2000. So finishing the league campaign with 90 points plus is nothing new is it? If thats the case, United broke the goals for record in the Premiership in 1999/2000 (97), can I say they revolutionised the Premiership as well?

United also finished as champions with 92 points in 1993/94...So Chelsea break that record by three points, Mourinho should be hailed as some sort of messiah? United finished the season with points total above 90 on two separate occasions before Mourinho came along...Chelsea merely improved on that figure...by three points.

I'd hardly call that a revolution or a massive shift...

Quote
ManU finished a distant second to Chelsea and still had enough points to have broken the EPL record prior to that.

WRONG.

In Mourinho's first season in charge, United finished third with 77 points. The Premiership points record at that time was 92 (which was held by United). In Mourinho's second season, United finished in second with 83 points, 8 points behind Chelsea (who had incidentally won the league with 91 points, the same total United won the title with in 1999/2000). On each of those occasions, United were nowhere near breaking the Premiership points record...oops.

Toppa:

Quote
You call losing five games in the league NOT being challenged?

Barcelona lost six games in Rijakaards Champions League winning season and still won the league by 12 points.

Barcelona lost five games in Guradiolas Champions League winning season and lost five games and won by a clear nine points.

In 2005-06, Barcelona won the league losing another six games. Where were Real Madrid? 12 points behind in second place.

The rule of thumb in La Liga is that if Real Madrid are unable to challenge, then Barcelona usually finish top with a large  lead. If either are unable to challenge, then someone else wins La Liga (Valencia and Deportivo in the early 00's). Its a league whose outcome is dictated on the type of challenge each of those two sides mount. In fact, in the last 24-25 years only three sides (other than Barcelona and Real Madrid) have managed to win La Liga (Valencia twice, Athletico Madrid once and Deportivo La Coruna once)

You can't afford to lose five games and then win the league with a nine point gap in the Premiership.

Quote
And Real Madrid had clawed back within four points of Barcelona so you take your time with yuh outta timing talk.

Which means nothing in the grand scheme of things since they still managed to finish 9 points behind Barcelona. Its like getting a 'D' in an exam and saying "I failed, but I answered all my questions correctly at one point"...

Quote
Let us not forget how injury ridden Real Madrid's squad was last year and how many starters were side-lined for lengthy periods and a couple crucial others for the entire season.

Are you blaming injuries on the fact that Madrid conceeded a whopping 52 league goals? Five less than Recreativo who finished bottom of the table?















 



















« Last Edit: August 09, 2009, 11:15:48 AM by Giggsy's Chestwig »

Offline FF

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Re: Manchester United or Barcelona? Who's Treble Was Greater?
« Reply #44 on: August 09, 2009, 12:21:20 PM »
Chestwig yuh is ah dunce pretending to be an intellect


Manchester United or Barcelona? Who's Treble Was Greater?
By David Arreola (Columnist)


The Verdict
In my humble opinion, I think the 2009 Barcelona Treble team was better than the 1999 Treble team of Manchester United. Barcelona were never really challenged, except for the Chelsea matches, as they ran through all competitions.

However, I believe that Manchester United's Treble season was the stuff of legends. Late goals, dramatic comebacks, and that unbelievable night at the Nou Camp, all of these things means to me that their Treble was greater. It is hard to differentiate between the two, as they are so very even.


This is exactly what i said... if you cannot comprehend that... same as the article.. look it right there.

But you is a rank c#nt so I done with you... IL+1
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Offline Arazi

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Re: Manchester United or Barcelona? Who's Treble Was Greater?
« Reply #45 on: August 09, 2009, 01:06:25 PM »
The fact that all United/EPL fans will say that United's treble was better, and all Barca/La Liga will say that Barca's was better renders this discussion useless and lacking objectivity. 

There are arguments on both sides and I maintain that neither of the achievements should take the shine off the other....They were both monumental. 

It's one thing to say that Man U had stiffer competition, but that same argument can be used against them (i.e. Barca didn't face the same level of competition as Man U did, not because the level of competition was low, but because Barca themselves were that Great)...After all Barca did steamroll Man U in the CL final...A Man U squad that dominated England and coasted through much of the Champions' League and was being compared to the great treble winning side of 99....

The Barca of 2009 played a level of football that I've seen no other team in the modern game execute with that degree of consistency....and they did it with a style that football fans dream of.  They simply demolished teams...

The Man U of 1999 won games in the manner that movies are made of...Even when they didn't play well they were resilient and found ways to eke out victories.

Whichever you consider greater is a matter of preference and as this thread indicates- biased allegiance. 


this is the winning post of the thread so far..everybody else just turning into a la liga vs epl thing...

btw..barca's own was more impressive for me..because of how they dominated everything..

alot of the manu/ epl fans also show how little they know of la liga..
very few teams do the la liga copa del rey double.. plus to say barca were never challenged is a stretch..the 6-2 was compelling because at the time barca were in a slump and despite their troubles REAL put together a 19 game winning streak to get with 4 points of Barca..

on top of that Real scored first at the Bernabeu...and pulled the game back to 3-2 just after the half before barca just pulled away to a majestic win...

United' treble required more graft and was more "exciting"...but Barca's triumph was awesome in the way they accomplished what they did...but they are both great achievements..
« Last Edit: August 09, 2009, 01:28:51 PM by Arazi »

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Re: Manchester United or Barcelona? Who's Treble Was Greater?
« Reply #46 on: August 09, 2009, 01:12:43 PM »
The team that won 3 trophys.

Offline Observer

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Re: Manchester United or Barcelona? Who's Treble Was Greater?
« Reply #47 on: August 09, 2009, 01:55:29 PM »
Barca own because they beat and dominated the defending champions in the final ;D
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Offline Filho

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Re: Manchester United or Barcelona? Who's Treble Was Greater?
« Reply #48 on: August 09, 2009, 04:01:28 PM »

And now we come to filho...

Quote
Ball being played at an entire different level and pace.

And yet United are STILL winning titles these days...

what does that have to do with anything? I'm saying everyone is playing at a higher level. why so defensive?

Quote
Mourinho's Chelsea came in and completely revolutionize the level of play and points you need to win the EPL.

Did he?

Chelsea finished with 95 points in 2004/05 (Mourino's first season in charge)
Chelsea finished with 91 points in 2005/06

Mourinho didn't really revolutionise anything. He broke the points record in 2004/05 by three points and then won the league the following season with the same points total that United achieved in 1999/2000.

Good point. I got that wrong as I was going off memory and didn't check stats. I think I know why I got it mixed up. The second season that Chelsea won with 91 points was the season ManU finished with 83 points. 83 points was ManU's total the last time ManU won the EPL prior to that in 2002-2003. I must have heard a commentator say it would have been enough to win the title the last time they did and remembered it wrong. my bad. But Chelsea did change the game imo. Note I said they changed both the points total and the level of play. They did break the record and the kind of points total you need to win now is hovering around the 90 point mark. Before that, it was possible to win the EPL with high 70s or low 80s, as ManU did in 2002-2003 for example. Yuh eh seeing that again. The second part is far more subjective, but I dod think the standard of play in the EPL (and football on the whole) is far higher now than 10 years ago. But for the purpose of this discussion, it's fair to say the ManU team of 1999/2000 also took it to another level. Sorry I mixed up that statistic

So finishing the league campaign with 90 points plus is nothing new is it? If thats the case, United broke the goals for record in the Premiership in 1999/2000 (97), can I say they revolutionised the Premiership as well?

Of course. ManU has played an integral part in improving the quality of the EPL in a massive way.

United also finished as champions with 92 points in 1993/94...So Chelsea break that record by three points, Mourinho should be hailed as some sort of messiah? United finished the season with points total above 90 on two separate occasions before Mourinho came along...Chelsea merely improved on that figure...by three points.

I'd hardly call that a revolution or a massive shift...

Quote
ManU finished a distant second to Chelsea and still had enough points to have broken the EPL record prior to that.

WRONG.

yep. already explained why i got that wrong

In Mourinho's first season in charge, United finished third with 77 points.

Yeah..like I said..I was remembering the 2nd season when United's point total was enough to win the EPL the last time United had won it. my mistake

The Premiership points record at that time was 92 (which was held by United). In Mourinho's second season, United finished in second with 83 points, 8 points behind Chelsea (who had incidentally won the league with 91 points, the same total United won the title with in 1999/2000). On each of those occasions, United were nowhere near breaking the Premiership points record...oops.


Statistically I see where I was wrong, but still stand by the idea that the game is played at a higher level now than it was 10 years ago and believe that Mourinho's Chelsea introduced the last big shift in what it takes to win the EPL. You say just 3 points, but if it was just 3 points, someone would have broken it already. Mourinho's Chelsea broke the record. Every time a team does that, they make the previously unattainable, a reality and it pushes the rest to higher heights. Arsenal did it the season before with their unbeaten league season. ManU did it before that with the treble. I see all these are revolutionary moments in the EPL.  BUt more importantly, I stand by the more important point I was trying to make..both trebles are equally impressive in my opinion.

Offline Marcos

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Re: Manchester United or Barcelona? Who's Treble Was Greater?
« Reply #49 on: August 10, 2009, 06:41:19 AM »
Man U had YORKE.
End of conversation
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