Ince failed his fellow teammates.

[Flex]

Clayton Ince failed his fellow teammates.
By: DIEZ.HN

Fortunately for Honduras, Trinidad and Tobago goalkeeper, Clayton Ince, was not at his best tonight.

Caribbean goalkeeper had a tough time with the attacks of our forwards and looked uncertain in mourning yesterday to the Bicolor.

Ince narrowed too much on the two goals he scored Carlos Pavon and was easily defeated in their own frame.

The team of the "Soca Warriors" lost his confidence and his defense is beginning to see fragile.

Clayton Ince wanted the earth to swallow him upon seeing his goal defeated. His face was a poem and could not find words to explain the tragic night at the Olympic. Total bitterness.

The minutes passed quickly for us but for the Trinity goal was total hell. Trinidad and Tobago began to crumble and our warriors did not settle for ever.

UNSAFE

The defense of the "Soca" lost confidence, the big goalkeeper had failed them at key moments and that we Adueñare endorsed for the three points in this round.

Even our captain, Amado Guevara, he sent a shot Ince's soft and interrupted with many problems. It was the beginning of his nightmare.

That's why "the Wolf" captured that moment of weakness and withering the goal of Trinidad and Tobago.

It was the third goal for Honduras, and Ince was the villain of Trinidad and Tobago. Then come the "King David" and that was a 4 to 1 lapidary.

THE HONOR

The best thing that could happen to Trinidad and Tobago was ending the match and it was.

The darlings of Jack Warner, practically say goodbye to their aspirations to qualify for the World Cup South Africa 2010.

Now they will play against Costa Rica and their participation will be almost honorable. That was the end of Trinidad and Tobago and in particular of Ince.

Clayton Ince le falló a sus compañeros

Afortunadamente para Honduras el portero de Trinidad y Tobago, Clayton Ince, no estuvo en su mejor noche.

El arquero caribeño la pasó mal con los ataques de nuestros delanteros y lució inseguro en el duelo de ayer ante la Bicolor.

Ince achicó demasiado en los dos goles que le anotó Carlos Pavón y fue derrotado fácilmente en su propio marco.

El equipo de los “Soca Warriors” perdió la confianza y su defensa se empezó a ver frágil.

Clayton Ince quería que la tierra se lo tragara al momento de ver su meta derrotada. Su rostro era un poema y no encontraba palabras para explicar la trágica noche en el Olímpico. Amargura total.

Los minutos pasaban rápido para nosotros, pero para el meta trinitario fueron un infierno total. Trinidad y Tobago se empezó a derrumbar y nuestros guerreros no se conformaron nunca.

INSEGURO

La defensa de los “Soca” perdió la confianza, el corpulento arquero les había fallado en los momentos claves y eso avaló para que nos adueñáramos de los tres puntos de esta eliminatoria.

Incluso nuestro capitán, Amado Guevara, le mandó un disparo suave e Ince la atajó con muchos problemas. Era el inicio de su pesadilla.

Es por eso que “el Lobo” captó ese momento de debilidad y fulminó la meta de Trinidad y Tobago.

Era el tercer tanto de Honduras, Ince ya era el Villano de Trinidad y Tobago. Luego llegaría el “Rey David” y eso fue un 4 a 1 lapidario.

POR EL HONOR

Lo mejor que le podía pasar a Trinidad y Tobago era que terminará el partido y así fue.

Los consentidos de Jack Warner, prácticamente le dicen adiós a sus aspiraciones para clasificar a la Copa Mundial de Sudáfrica 2010.

Ahora van a jugar contra Costa Rica y su participación será casi honorífica. Ese fue el final de Trinidad y Tobago y en especial de Ince.

[CarenageBoy]

There's always a tendency to blame the players after a disappointment. However, I say you can't blame the players (especially the goalkeeper) unless there were blatant demonstrations of carelessness on the field  and not just momentary lapses.

Even though it's more practical to blame the coach, you can't do that either. The reason why will become more apparent later.

We can't ignore the four most important factors that brought us here:

1) The blacklist of foreign-based players that denied Wim of quality players for friendlies and the Gold Cup. That denial of more experienced players also denied the team opportunities to gel with both the younger players and the Pro League players. That lost opportunity (by way of the blacklist) resulted in our poor performance against such minnows as Bermuda.

2) The firing of Wim is another huge factor. Wim carried on the tradition of a tight defensive approach to the game which was introduced by Leo. He was familiar with the team and had already worked with them for a considerable amount of time. Don't forget the fact he attended a lot of the Pro League games. That is why he could speak honestly about the PFL shortcomings. Bringing in a new coach to replace him at this stage set us back quite a bit.

3) It is now hindsight, but it's still obvious that hiring Maturana (although well intentioned) was a mistake. He didn't know our players or our style of football and spent too much time at this late stage experimenting. However, keep in mind that Mats didn't hire himself.

4) Finally, it was ill-timed to place the Little Magician in this predicament so late in the game. His task was mission impossible from the beginning. It would have been better to bring him on after our attempt at the 2010 WC campaign was over. By bringing him on after the campaign, he could develop the U20s for 2014. In either case, Latapy was still a far better choice than Maturana.

These factors above all others were responsible for the predicament that we now find ourselves.

Here's what we can do now:

1) Allow Latapy to keep fighting down to the end.

2) Regardless of the outcome, keep him on board to develop the next generation (which should include the U20s) for 2014.

3) Move Zoran Vranes to coaching the generation of U17s. He did a good job with the U20s and will likely do the same great job with the U17s.

4) Start providing the Senior men's team with some quality international friendlies while not neglecting the same opportunity for the U20s.

[Big Magician]

well i guess he could not get 3 man of the match in ah row....

[CarenageBoy]

Did Ince fail? Or, was it defense?

[asylumseeker]

Collective failure.

[Touches]

Ince do shit for nearly all of the goals.

[Weh-it-is]

One team was ready the other was not. 

[acb]

well i guess he could not get 3 man of the match in ah row....

as much as I wanted to join in the chorus and blame Ince, I held back because he saved our ass in the last game vs ES and gave us the chance to get to yesterday's game with hope.

live by the gun, die by the gun.

[Anbrat]

Collective failure.

So true!

[sjahrain]

And it written we are here because the momentum was not sustained following our first world cup appearance

[CarenageBoy]

And it written we are here because the momentum was not sustained following our first world cup appearance

Why didn't we maintain that momentum? See my previous post: http://www.socawarriors.net/forum/index.php?topic=45932.msg605677#msg605677

Sometimes you have to look back in order to move forward. May be we can avoid making the same mistakes again.

[CarenageBoy]

I watched the first two goals on replays a few times. There's a very delicate balancing act that a GK has to play when facing a charge. He needs to decide when to come off his line or when to hold his ground. Ince was doing his job.

What you need to ask is where was the defense during the Honduran break-away run? The defense should have been there to break up that charge.

[Mango Chow!]

I watched the first two goals on replays a few times. There's a very delicate balancing act that a GK has to play when facing a charge. He needs to decide when to come off his line or when to hold his ground. Ince was doing his job.

What you need to ask is where was the defense during the Honduran break-away run? The defense should have been there to break up that charge.

  Finally, somebody who seem to know what he's talking about. 

  I watch all them goals and there was not much that Ince could have done for any of them.  His defense left him out to dry and Honduras scorched him.  Plain and simple. 

[weary1969]

Ince do shit for nearly all of the goals.

Wrong is DOGGGGGGGGGGG

[jai john]

Ince do shit for nearly all of the goals.

Wrong is DOGGGGGGGGGGG

Wha bout de coaching aspect ? de coach going good ? You used to be a long time, everyday critic of the person in charge , win lose or draw. You change yuh tune now girl ? Who pick Dog ? who selected de team ? in fact who is rightly responsible for the team's performance ?
Strange ..all dem questions eh important anymore ..Latapy in charge ...
So how do you rate LATAPY ?  ...since you eh broaching de subject atall !

[palos]

As defensively shaky as we are, prior to the first goal, T&T was looking fairly comfortable IMO.  Honduras wasn't threatening.  They didn't have much flow.  T&T was in the game.  We weren't being overrun or anything close to be.

Then Ince decide to sprint out for a ball he had no hope of getting....trying to narrow an angle that exposed his entire goal because he was literally caught in no man's land....to the extreme left of his goal towards the outer end of his penalty area and little or no defensive cover.

Yes...the ball beat samuel who was a step behind his man but the guy still had a LOT OF WORK TO DO.  It's unlikely that he was going to shoot on goal from that angle.  His main play was to do what he did...square it back.  With Ince caught completely out of the way, the entire goal was unguarded.  Abu Bakr made a valiant attempt to clear but in his PANIC...he botched his clearance...it fell to Pavon and he simply had to slot it into a relatively empty net with Ince almost closer to the corner flag than the goal.

Once that goal scored...we pretty much fell apart.  It's not just that the goal was scored...it was the manner in which it was scored.  We practically scored on ourselves.  And I believe it affected MENTALLY, the rest of our game.  The longer it stayed at 0-0...without us committing football hari kari...the better chance we would have stood in the game.  It seems like an obvious statement but it merely reinforces the point that we CANNOT AFFORD THESE KIND OF MISTAKES.  We don't have the firepower or mental fortitude to overcome them.

Ince saved us the past 2 matches.  He can't perform miracles every game.  But that first goal on saturday was a howler.  Not exactly out of character for Ince if you follow his career.  But he's still the best we have so yuh have to live with the good and the bad.

[palos]

Ince do shit for nearly all of the goals.

Wrong is DOGGGGGGGGGGG

Dog eh able babes.  Valiant soldier.  True warrior.  But the game has passed him by.  Ah know daz yuh dog but daz how it go.

Even Makan Hislop is a better choice now.  And you know it too.

[Arazi]

As defensively shaky as we are, prior to the first goal, T&T was looking fairly comfortable IMO.  Honduras wasn't threatening.  They didn't have much flow.  T&T was in the game.  We weren't being overrun or anything close to be.

Then Ince decide to sprint out for a ball he had no hope of getting....trying to narrow an angle that exposed his entire goal because he was literally caught in no man's land....to the extreme left of his goal towards the outer end of his penalty area and little or no defensive cover.

Yes...the ball beat samuel who was a step behind his man but the guy still had a LOT OF WORK TO DO.  It's unlikely that he was going to shoot on goal from that angle.  His main play was to do what he did...square it back.  With Ince caught completely out of the way, the entire goal was unguarded.  Abu Bakr made a valiant attempt to clear but in his PANIC...he botched his clearance...it fell to Pavon and he simply had to slot it into a relatively empty net with Ince almost closer to the corner flag than the goal.

Once that goal scored...we pretty much fell apart.  It's not just that the goal was scored...it was the manner in which it was scored.  We practically scored on ourselves.  And I believe it affected MENTALLY, the rest of our game.  The longer it stayed at 0-0...without us committing football hari kari...the better chance we would have stood in the game.  It seems like an obvious statement but it merely reinforces the point that we CANNOT AFFORD THESE KIND OF MISTAKES.  We don't have the firepower or mental fortitude to overcome them.

Ince saved us the past 2 matches.  He can't perform miracles every game.  But that first goal on saturday was a howler.  Not exactly out of character for Ince if you follow his career.  But he's still the best we have so yuh have to live with the good and the bad.

TRUTH.COM

Honduras were relatively circumspect until that goal went in..it broke the shackles for them..and what team plan we had..particularly in the midfield...went completely out the window..i usually endorse ince...buh he was wrong both in running out on the first goal for the reason palos pointed out..the attacker was in no position to shoot and would have likely cut back...which ince made easier becuz Duff now had to cover for his keeper instead of mark the run of the onrushing attacker...and for his positioning/decision making on the second and fourth goals was also questionable...

The mere fact that it's the Honduran press saying this and not one of our local cynics is more than evidence enough how much at fault he was...

[pardners]

I know with some certainty, for the last goal, Ince was seen backing when the attacker was coming at him.  He was probably shy after the way the first goal was scored...but that was when he needed to cover the angles.

[dinho]

As defensively shaky as we are, prior to the first goal, T&T was looking fairly comfortable IMO.  Honduras wasn't threatening.  They didn't have much flow.  T&T was in the game.  We weren't being overrun or anything close to be.

Then Ince decide to sprint out for a ball he had no hope of getting....trying to narrow an angle that exposed his entire goal because he was literally caught in no man's land....to the extreme left of his goal towards the outer end of his penalty area and little or no defensive cover.

Yes...the ball beat samuel who was a step behind his man but the guy still had a LOT OF WORK TO DO.  It's unlikely that he was going to shoot on goal from that angle.  His main play was to do what he did...square it back.  With Ince caught completely out of the way, the entire goal was unguarded.  Abu Bakr made a valiant attempt to clear but in his PANIC...he botched his clearance...it fell to Pavon and he simply had to slot it into a relatively empty net with Ince almost closer to the corner flag than the goal.

Once that goal scored...we pretty much fell apart.  It's not just that the goal was scored...it was the manner in which it was scored.  We practically scored on ourselves.  And I believe it affected MENTALLY, the rest of our game.  The longer it stayed at 0-0...without us committing football hari kari...the better chance we would have stood in the game.  It seems like an obvious statement but it merely reinforces the point that we CANNOT AFFORD THESE KIND OF MISTAKES.  We don't have the firepower or mental fortitude to overcome them.

Ince saved us the past 2 matches.  He can't perform miracles every game.  But that first goal on saturday was a howler.  Not exactly out of character for Ince if you follow his career.  But he's still the best we have so yuh have to live with the good and the bad.

you see palos, when you take a deep breath, relax and try hard enough, yuh really capable of talking some sense when yuh ready..

dat piece ah madness ince do for the 1st goal was similar to the shit that the argentine keeper do for the 3rd goal; except that the argentine keeper did not have the benefit of recovering defenders and also did not have to consider honduran attackers coming into the box for the square pass.

What Ince shouldve really done is what he did to save the initial shot on the 3rd goal with his feet.. step out to the 6 yard box, make heself big and narrow the angle, then invite the attacker to shoot. And save me that shit about he had a split second to make that decision, Ince is 38 yrs old and have enough experience in this game to know not to be misjudging a through ball that was impossible to reach like that.

Also, even though he do shit on the 4th goal, really and truly i not going to begrudge that because it was a clear one v one with slow ass Dog gearing down to first gear admiring the play... Odds are that Ince was most likely to get beat or leave out anyway if he came out to challenge like he should have.

But you right though.. Ince save we cunny plenty in the last few games but had an off night against Honduras.. And we hadda take the good with the bad.

If we view his performances wholistically, his account balance still reading positive.

[Brownsugar]

As defensively shaky as we are, prior to the first goal, T&T was looking fairly comfortable IMO.  Honduras wasn't threatening.  They didn't have much flow.  T&T was in the game.  We weren't being overrun or anything close to be.

Then Ince decide to sprint out for a ball he had no hope of getting....trying to narrow an angle that exposed his entire goal because he was literally caught in no man's land....to the extreme left of his goal towards the outer end of his penalty area and little or no defensive cover.

Yes...the ball beat samuel who was a step behind his man but the guy still had a LOT OF WORK TO DO.  It's unlikely that he was going to shoot on goal from that angle.  His main play was to do what he did...square it back.  With Ince caught completely out of the way, the entire goal was unguarded.  Abu Bakr made a valiant attempt to clear but in his PANIC...he botched his clearance...it fell to Pavon and he simply had to slot it into a relatively empty net with Ince almost closer to the corner flag than the goal.

Once that goal scored...we pretty much fell apart.  It's not just that the goal was scored...it was the manner in which it was scored.  We practically scored on ourselves.  And I believe it affected MENTALLY, the rest of our game.  The longer it stayed at 0-0...without us committing football hari kari...the better chance we would have stood in the game.  It seems like an obvious statement but it merely reinforces the point that we CANNOT AFFORD THESE KIND OF MISTAKES.  We don't have the firepower or mental fortitude to overcome them.

Ince saved us the past 2 matches.  He can't perform miracles every game.  But that first goal on saturday was a howler.  Not exactly out of character for Ince if you follow his career.  But he's still the best we have so yuh have to live with the good and the bad.

That is exactly what I've been trying to say re: Ince since Saturday.....when next yuh coming Trinbago??....ah owe some of these for that post....  

[weary1969]

Ince do shit for nearly all of the goals.

Wrong is DOGGGGGGGGGGG

Wha bout de coaching aspect ? de coach going good ? You used to be a long time, everyday critic of the person in charge , win lose or draw. You change yuh tune now girl ? Who pick Dog ? who selected de team ? in fact who is rightly responsible for the team's performance ?
Strange ..all dem questions eh important anymore ..Latapy in charge ...
So how do you rate LATAPY ?  ...since you eh broaching de subject atall !

4 a San Juan man u does talk real crap. I was 1st 2 bawl bout Chubby makin d team. U pardner get 14 mths and d team look good in 1 game I C d win v El Sal at d MLS. So give Latas he 14 mths

[weary1969]

Ince do shit for nearly all of the goals.

Wrong is DOGGGGGGGGGGG

Dog eh able babes.  Valiant soldier.  True warrior.  But the game has passed him by.  Ah know daz yuh dog but daz how it go.

Even Makan Hislop is a better choice now.  And you know it too.

U was goin good till u mention Hislop. Whether it pass or it present I does just get tired of everyting bein d man fault. Ince do ah set ah crap but man blamin Dog.

[Coop's]

Ince do shit for nearly all of the goals.

      He must do shyt when he is playing behind a shyt team,how do you expect a GK to do well if he is playing behind a team that can't defend,he is not a bobolee he is a Goalkeeper.

[weary1969]

Ince do shit for nearly all of the goals.

      He must do shyt when he is playing behind a shyt team,how do you expect a GK to do well if he is playing behind a team that can't defend,he is not a bobolee he is a Goalkeeper.

So he defence eh good so u go run out like yuh mudder call u.

[CarenageBoy]

Ince saved us the past 2 matches.  He can't perform miracles every game.  But that first goal on saturday was a howler.  Not exactly out of character for Ince if you follow his career.  But he's still the best we have so yuh have to live with the good and the bad.

I know that coming off his line too often and too far has been Ince's Achilles heel for much of his career, but he's much improved in that area. Even though you can argue that Ince was over-committed, the blame should still fall square with defense and not with Ince. That break-away charge toward goal even if there was no intention to shoot should have been broken up. At the very least someone should have been marking the man to the right. The defense was caught sleeping on the job.

[Mango Chow!]

I know with some certainty, for the last goal, Ince was seen backing when the attacker was coming at him.  He was probably shy after the way the first goal was scored...but that was when he needed to cover the angles.

   Boss, yuh eh really know wha yuh talkin' 'bout here, but lemme help yuh out: the opponent was initially approaching the goal from just beyond the 18-yard box with a ball bouncing in front of him.  Ince could NOT have afforded to rush off his line to "cover angles" because the opponent would have had an opportunity to simply lob or chip the ball over Ince at that point.  Once he made his first touch and controlled the ball along the ground, that is where and exactly when Ince was supposed to start coming out to "cover the angle" as you put it and that is exactly what he did, but it would not have mattered at that point.  He was always at a position that was disadvantageous to him, especially with the opponent attacking from straight down the middle of his central defense.

    "...He was probably shy after the way the first goal was scored.........."
     FIRST GOAL?!?!  FIRST GOAL, Dred?!?!  At this point we are down THREE and our defense don't have a CLUE.  Every goal we conceded was a direct result of one or more defenders that either didn't do his/their job/s or did it/them very, very poorly (the story of our national teams) and you think Ince might only be psychologically and emotionally affected by the FIRST GOAL?!   Come on Bredda....watch the footage again nuh.  How is it, on the third goal, that the man (no. 15) that took the initial shot that Ince brilliantly saved, how is it that he was even able to get past/between TWO defenders so close together to even get off a shot in the first place?  I agree and I will criticize Ince when he do shyte, but as far as this game was concerned, you have to find fault (even YET again!!) with the defense.

[CarenageBoy]

Here's what Clayton Morris had to say about the GK and the defenders:

This lack of communication between defenders, he pointed out, may have led goalkeeper Clayton Ince to rush for the ball early and let in two first half goals.

"I think that is what forced Clayton Ince (in) doing what he did, at least for the two goals," Morris explained. "He wasn't getting that reaction from the defenders that it should be. It was a clear misunderstanding. That alone answered my concerns."

[asylumseeker]

I'm struck by definitive comments that #16 was never going to shoot. Allyuh is seasoned ball watchers ... there would have been NOTHING revolutionary fuh player to lick that shot from that angle. Chow? You keep goal wha yuh think? I watched the footage as it happened, and even on the replays (where I knew the actual development) the shot seemed more than a remote prospect.

#16 made a tactically superior decision in passing the ball, but I would hardly say the shot was never going to happen.

[Coop's]

Ince do shit for nearly all of the goals.

      He must do shyt when he is playing behind a shyt team,how do you expect a GK to do well if he is playing behind a team that can't defend,he is not a bobolee he is a Goalkeeper.

So he defence eh good so u go run out like yuh mudder call u.

       The two last goals he stayed and it was one on one with the keeper,Honduras run past our defenders,what difference did it make.