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Author Topic: Stats don't lie! Stern John 2005 vs Kenwyne Jones 2009  (Read 7112 times)

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Offline dinho

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Re: Stats don't lie! Stern John 2005 vs Kenwyne Jones 2009
« Reply #30 on: September 10, 2009, 09:05:58 AM »
my god...this is like comparing Ruud with Bentdner

Stern John= LEGEND...69 in 109 and will rise to the occasion and get the job done

KJ = Waste of Time that will never play his heart out for T&T and possibly retire by year's end

Stern missing the last 5 games were a huge factor... vs CR at home and today we would have gotten the points.

Name the teams them 69 goals came from nah?

Berris go easy eh, just trying to bring some reality.

Colombia, South Africa, Egypt, Scotland, Wales, Finland, Venezuela, Iraq, Mexico, Costa Rica, Honduras, Guatemala, Panama, Haiti, Jamaica, Martinique, Guadeloupe, Cuba, Barbados, Bermuda, Dominican Republic, Dominica, St. Vincent & the Grenadines, St. Kitts & Nevis, Antigua & Barbuda, Cayman Islands

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Offline kicker

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Re: Stats don't lie! Stern John 2005 vs Kenwyne Jones 2009
« Reply #31 on: September 10, 2009, 09:06:09 AM »
kenwyn jones is not a striker, he is a player without a position. he is not comfortable in front the goal. just because he has size the english put him infront but it is like fitting a square in a trinagle. he has no touches, cah control and lack the prowess and instinct as a striker.
how in the world he starts for tnt amazes me. stern produced, his numbers showed for himself, yes later on he slowed up with age but he was class. people saying kj is only 24 but in modern football stars produce at that age, at 24 stern was a star producing goals.

i do not see kj getting much better until he gets a position he is comfortable. where that is i do not know.

big post. he needs to play defense...the position he started off playing as a youth!

I don't think he started as a defender.  I think he was converted for that U-17 tournament.  I think I read in an article (or was told by someone who read the article) that he played it because he wanted to make the team and would basically play anywhere to be in the line up.  From my understanding, KJ is naturally an attacking player.  
Live life 90 minutes at a time....Football is life.......

Offline FireBrand

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Re: Stats don't lie! Stern John 2005 vs Kenwyne Jones 2009
« Reply #32 on: September 10, 2009, 09:36:05 AM »
my god...this is like comparing Ruud with Bentdner

Stern John= LEGEND...69 in 109 and will rise to the occasion and get the job done

KJ = Waste of Time that will never play his heart out for T&T and possibly retire by year's end

Stern missing the last 5 games were a huge factor... vs CR at home and today we would have gotten the points.

Name the teams them 69 goals came from nah?

Berris go easy eh, just trying to bring some reality.

Colombia, South Africa, Egypt, Scotland, Wales, Finland, Venezuela, Iraq, Mexico, Costa Rica, Honduras, Guatemala, Panama, Haiti, Jamaica, Martinique, Guadeloupe, Cuba, Barbados, Bermuda, Dominican Republic, Dominica, St. Vincent & the Grenadines, St. Kitts & Nevis, Antigua & Barbuda, Cayman Islands

hmmm...Colombia.  De Colombia hattrick in de Orange Bowl was almost as sweet as de 2 brace Guatemala and Mexico get. Doh talk bout de couple beavers he added to de mix. LEGEND FLICKIN 14!
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Offline dwn

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Re: Stats don't lie! Stern John 2005 vs Kenwyne Jones 2009
« Reply #33 on: September 10, 2009, 09:53:17 AM »
I don't think he started as a defender.  I think he was converted for that U-17 tournament.  I think I read in an article (or was told by someone who read the article) that he played it because he wanted to make the team and would basically play anywhere to be in the line up.  From my understanding, KJ is naturally an attacking player.  

Interesting how as an u17 he is willing to play anywhere to make the team and now he seems to not care that much.

Offline Zeppo

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Re: Stats don't lie! Stern John 2005 vs Kenwyne Jones 2009
« Reply #34 on: September 10, 2009, 09:55:43 AM »
one time i saw tinto had a break away and he pass kj and home boy standup and did not run to give support, i was like that dude lazy.

John Harkes pointed that out on the ESPN broadcast.

It was a counterattack for T&T and he was in a perfect position to join in and add numbers to the attacking move, but he just stood there and let everyone run past him. I couldn't believe it when I saw it.
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Offline Socapro

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Re: Stats don't lie! Stern John 2005 vs Kenwyne Jones 2009
« Reply #35 on: September 10, 2009, 10:03:00 AM »
I asked Kenwyne after the game how does he feel that people think that he does not give his all for his country and he replied.........."i dont care"

But these players performances are a lot deeper than that.........if anyone is to blame, its the TTFF, they treat the players like shit!!

More details to follow!!

ah love it!!

Fellas I think it time to either leave KJ in England to concentrate on his club career or if we still wish to use him, use him maybe in some other position as a defender for example or let him come off the bench!

Best soultion for me is to let KJ concentrate on his club career for a while, while we give other young talented strikers a chance to prove themselves with the national team.
« Last Edit: September 10, 2009, 10:05:43 AM by Socapro »
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Offline Trinimassive

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Re: Stats don't lie! Stern John 2005 vs Kenwyne Jones 2009
« Reply #36 on: September 10, 2009, 11:25:39 AM »
I asked Kenwyne after the game how does he feel that people think that he does not give his all for his country and he replied.........."i dont care"

But these players performances are a lot deeper than that.........if anyone is to blame, its the TTFF, they treat the players like shit!!
More details to follow!!

ah love it!!

I believe they probably treat players like shit BUT Keep in mind Stern play under the same TTFF and been scoring goals regardless.

LEGEND 14

Offline elan

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Re: Stats don't lie! Stern John 2005 vs Kenwyne Jones 2009
« Reply #37 on: September 10, 2009, 11:27:52 AM »
my god...this is like comparing Ruud with Bentdner

Stern John= LEGEND...69 in 109 and will rise to the occasion and get the job done

KJ = Waste of Time that will never play his heart out for T&T and possibly retire by year's end

Stern missing the last 5 games were a huge factor... vs CR at home and today we would have gotten the points.

Name the teams them 69 goals came from nah?

Berris go easy eh, just trying to bring some reality.

Colombia, South Africa, Egypt, Scotland, Wales, Finland, Venezuela, Iraq, Mexico, Costa Rica, Honduras, Guatemala, Panama, Haiti, Jamaica, Martinique, Guadeloupe, Cuba, Barbados, Bermuda, Dominican Republic, Dominica, St. Vincent & the Grenadines, St. Kitts & Nevis, Antigua & Barbuda, Cayman Islands

Know how long I trying to find that. It have anywhere the amount he scored against each?


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Offline weary1969

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Re: Stats don't lie! Stern John 2005 vs Kenwyne Jones 2009
« Reply #38 on: September 10, 2009, 11:33:41 AM »
KJ is not a natural striker so he will neva look like 1. So he will neva match Stern and he have a right not 2 care. Trinis luv 2 hate he doh play good 4 we he does play betta 4 Sunderland yada yada yada.
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Offline Tallman

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Re: Stats don't lie! Stern John 2005 vs Kenwyne Jones 2009
« Reply #39 on: September 10, 2009, 11:35:32 AM »
my god...this is like comparing Ruud with Bentdner

Stern John= LEGEND...69 in 109 and will rise to the occasion and get the job done

KJ = Waste of Time that will never play his heart out for T&T and possibly retire by year's end

Stern missing the last 5 games were a huge factor... vs CR at home and today we would have gotten the points.

Name the teams them 69 goals came from nah?

Berris go easy eh, just trying to bring some reality.

Colombia, South Africa, Egypt, Scotland, Wales, Finland, Venezuela, Iraq, Mexico, Costa Rica, Honduras, Guatemala, Panama, Haiti, Jamaica, Martinique, Guadeloupe, Cuba, Barbados, Bermuda, Dominican Republic, Dominica, St. Vincent & the Grenadines, St. Kitts & Nevis, Antigua & Barbuda, Cayman Islands

Know how long I trying to find that. It have anywhere the amount he scored against each?

Goals by Stern John. Yuh go hadda total dem up.
The Conquering Lion of Judah shall break every chain.

Offline Disgruntled_Trini

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Re: Stats don't lie! Stern John 2005 vs Kenwyne Jones 2009
« Reply #40 on: September 10, 2009, 12:00:09 PM »
Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital.

Let we index all them goals against games played, opposition, shots taken, shots on target and blatant misses and yuh go realise that dem 69 goals is small change.

All yuh does get carried away yes.



Més que un club.

Offline Tallman

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Re: Stats don't lie! Stern John 2005 vs Kenwyne Jones 2009
« Reply #41 on: September 10, 2009, 12:35:01 PM »
Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital.

Let we index all them goals against games played, opposition, shots taken, shots on target and blatant misses and yuh go realise that dem 69 goals is small change.

All yuh does get carried away yes.

Subject all T&T forwards to the same criteria and what do you get? As was pointed out before, he can only score or attempt to score on the opposition that is provided to us. While he does have his fair share of misses, it is a positive thing that he actually gets himself in the position to create the chances. With many of our other forwards, the less missed chances does not necessarily indicate a better performance, it could actually mean a worse performance because their positioning is off. Ah know all of dis eh relly mean nutten because yuh jes doh like de man, but it eh mean yuh have tuh distort, belittle or discredit de man accomplishments. In the same vain, his accomplishments should not be blown out of proportion either, but rather taken in context. We talking bout the performances of T&T strikers while representing de national team. In de end, we eh have tuh drag down no player in order to big another one up.
The Conquering Lion of Judah shall break every chain.

Offline Disgruntled_Trini

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Re: Stats don't lie! Stern John 2005 vs Kenwyne Jones 2009
« Reply #42 on: September 10, 2009, 01:01:00 PM »
Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital.

Let we index all them goals against games played, opposition, shots taken, shots on target and blatant misses and yuh go realise that dem 69 goals is small change.

All yuh does get carried away yes.

While he does have his fair share of misses, it is a positive thing that he actually gets himself in the position to create the chances. With many of our other forwards, the less missed chances does not necessarily indicate a better performance, it could actually mean a worse performance because their positioning is off.

/quote]

That is why we have to have all the stats before we make such a broad generalisation.

I am sure if Stern did score 1/3 of his GLARING MISSES, his goal scaring record would've been astronomical.

Having said that, Jones shit down he self in this hex bad bad bad. And if he eh careful he to could be subject to a animated gif.

steups........I sour like ah bag ah lemon yes. 


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Offline Bitter

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Re: Stats don't lie! Stern John 2005 vs Kenwyne Jones 2009
« Reply #43 on: September 10, 2009, 01:19:22 PM »
Goals by Stern John. Yuh go hadda total dem up.

Opponent   Total
Antigua and Barbuda   2
Barbados   3
Bermuda   3
Bermuda+   3
Cayman Islands   1
Colombia   3
Costa Rica   1
Cuba   3
Dominica   4
Dominican Republic   5
Egypt   1
Finland   1
Guadeloupe   1
Guatemala   2
Haiti   6
Honduras   5
Iraq   2
Jamaica   4
Martinique   4
Mexico   3
Panama   2
Scotland   1
South Africa   1
St. Kitts and Nevis   3
St. Vincent and the Grenadines   2
Venezuela   2
Wales   1
Grand Total   69
« Last Edit: September 10, 2009, 01:33:05 PM by Bitter »
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Offline Bitter

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Re: Stats don't lie! Stern John 2005 vs Kenwyne Jones 2009
« Reply #44 on: September 10, 2009, 01:23:04 PM »
Caribbean Cup   
   Antigua and Barbuda   1
   Dominica      4
   Haiti         3
   Jamaica         1
   Martinique      3

Caribbean Cup Total      12

CONCACAF Gold Cup   
   Costa Rica   1
   Honduras   2

Gold Cup Total      3

CONCACAF Gold Cup Qualifier   
   Antigua and Barbuda   1
   Cuba         1
   Guadeloupe      1
Gold Cup Qualifier Total   3

Copa Caribe   
   Barbados   2
   Cuba      2
   Haiti      1
   Jamaica      1
Copa Caribe Total      6

Friendly   
   Barbados   1
   Bermuda      2
   Bermuda+   2
   Cayman Islands   1
   Colombia   3
   Egypt      1
   Finland      1
   Haiti      2
   Honduras   1
   Iraq      2
   Jamaica      1
   Martinique   1
   Scotland   1
   South Africa   1
   St. Vincent and the Grenadines   2
   Venezuela   2
   Wales      1
Friendly Total      25

World Cup Qualifier   
   Bermuda         1
   Bermuda+      1
   Dominican Republic   5
   Guatemala      2
   Honduras      2
   Jamaica         1
   Mexico         3
   Panama         2
   St. Kitts and Nevis   3

World Cup Qualifier Total      20

Grand Total      69

Bitter is a supercalifragilistic tic-tac-pro

Offline KND2

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Re: Stats don't lie! Stern John 2005 vs Kenwyne Jones 2009
« Reply #45 on: September 10, 2009, 01:45:11 PM »
The difference between Stern and KJ is that stern had to work his way up through the TnT Senior team to build his career. KJ went abroad at a young age based on Potential more so than performance. When Stern was playing for TnT for Caps and fame early in his career before he became a big name in MLS. Given that type of oppournity you develop a mentality of fighting and taking the chances you get.
you go into every 50/50 and you want to Play.

Then once you start scoring you get more desire to do it in more games it becomes addictive and you set personal goals. Stern wanted to be the highest goal scorer for TnT. Personal drive is the best motivation.

Stern is a man who love to come back and play against Dominican Republic because he know is goals he could score and that type of effort just continue when you play the US

KJ started his career for TnT as a utility player fitting in anywhere Bertile wanted to use him usually on the wing defense. and grousing that he was not playing striker.

He also mostly only plays in the most competitive matches because he has been abroad since 18 so he miss out on shell cup digicel cup and all them fun games for scoring goals.

He learn to play striker as the " Finish man"
Which in the premiership mens
Stand in the box
we will get you the ball and you finish.

That not happening in the hasley crawford no way no how.
You have to battle and scrap and fight for half chance.

When you look at a man like Stern in the last Hex you see the battle and fight and drive that you can only get by have to fight through it daily.
KJ is not that type of player, he is standing waiting for chances to put away.
unfortuantely we are not good enough to create those chances at the moment and he also is out of form which all strikers go through.
eventually he will catch form and score some goals for TnT

Yorke had the same issue,
He also learned to play striker in England
scored a million in the premiership but struggle to score for TnT

The Mental is what drives the Physical
and the emotional controls the Mental.

Kenwyne is not emotionally attached to score goals for TnT
Stern John is.
emotional attachment can only come from physical experiences.

Both experiences are quite different.

Latapy and John vs Kenwyne and Yorke all great players but the first set did much much more for TnT on the field.

Years in the Gold Cup Carribean cup and friendlys
If you only playing world cup qualification then you missing 2/3 of the action.

Offline Peong

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Re: Stats don't lie! Stern John 2005 vs Kenwyne Jones 2009
« Reply #46 on: September 10, 2009, 01:56:24 PM »
Jones' performance last night was an improvement on his previous outings.
He got on the end of some passes and wasn't falling down without being fouled.
Onyewu was on him hard all night and he still managed to get some space.
An improvement, but he's not a replacement for Stern.

Offline troy piloy

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Re: Stats don't lie! Stern John 2005 vs Kenwyne Jones 2009
« Reply #47 on: September 10, 2009, 07:05:58 PM »
I must say when i made this topic i didn't expect this amount of responses and i thank everyone for it.

As i have heard said and i will repeat it is that Stern John is a Legend in Trinidad football, has always made himself available for his country and perform despite his ridicule.

I hope that when he finally retires from international football he will get the heroes farewell that he deserves

Troy 8)
Stern John fan for life
Senior Advisor to AWATT's Intelligence Unit

Offline Small Magician aka Wazza

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Re: Stats don't lie! Stern John 2005 vs Kenwyne Jones 2009
« Reply #48 on: September 10, 2009, 07:32:04 PM »
On Sports News Latapy made a special announcement about Stern basically saying he(Latapy) missed him badly during his games in charge... He went on to say he is a great goalscorer and the fans have always treated him badly but it is ironic how fans are wishing he was fit now

Class is Class..and Stern John is that... I'm sure every manager in the English leagues will agree

Stern John= Goals

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Re: Stats don't lie! Stern John 2005 vs Kenwyne Jones 2009
« Reply #49 on: September 10, 2009, 07:34:31 PM »
great memories of the game against guatemala in '05... at halftime 3/4 of the uncovered stands was bawling for stern to come off as the team was walking off the field... he had every right to cuss all of us when he made it 3-2. lol

dat is still d best game i have ever seen soca warriors play live. dat is a game i think i will never forget.
Doh f**k wit MY warriors!!!

Offline Bakes

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Re: Stats don't lie! Stern John 2005 vs Kenwyne Jones 2009
« Reply #50 on: September 10, 2009, 07:50:33 PM »
I must say when i made this topic i didn't expect this amount of responses and i thank everyone for it.

As i have heard said and i will repeat it is that Stern John is a Legend in Trinidad football, has always made himself available for his country and perform despite his ridicule.

I hope that when he finally retires from international football he will get the heroes farewell that he deserves

Troy 8)
Stern John fan for life

This is a dumbass thread... you easily could have made the case that Stern deserves greater appreciation from fans without making the comparison to Kenwyne and trying to make KJ look bad.

Offline Small Magician aka Wazza

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Re: Stats don't lie! Stern John 2005 vs Kenwyne Jones 2009
« Reply #51 on: September 10, 2009, 07:55:32 PM »
I must say when i made this topic i didn't expect this amount of responses and i thank everyone for it.

As i have heard said and i will repeat it is that Stern John is a Legend in Trinidad football, has always made himself available for his country and perform despite his ridicule.

I hope that when he finally retires from international football he will get the heroes farewell that he deserves

Troy 8)
Stern John fan for life

This is a dumbass thread... you easily could have made the case that Stern deserves greater appreciation from fans without making the comparison to Kenwyne and trying to make KJ look bad.

Kenwyne does that by himself lol

Long Live Stern John

Offline troy piloy

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Re: Stats don't lie! Stern John 2005 vs Kenwyne Jones 2009
« Reply #52 on: September 10, 2009, 07:57:25 PM »


This is a dumbass thread... you easily could have made the case that Stern deserves greater appreciation from fans without making the comparison to Kenwyne and trying to make KJ look bad.

Like KJ is allya golden boy someone make an gif mashing up Stern i aint hear you say nothing then.
I quote some stats highlighting his lack of goal scoring  and you vex
outside with you
If it was the other way around ppl like you would not have hesitated to mash Stern up.

Troy 8)
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Offline Bakes

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Re: Stats don't lie! Stern John 2005 vs Kenwyne Jones 2009
« Reply #53 on: September 10, 2009, 08:21:00 PM »
Like KJ is allya golden boy someone make an gif mashing up Stern i aint hear you say nothing then.
I quote some stats highlighting his lack of goal scoring  and you vex
outside with you
If it was the other way around ppl like you would not have hesitated to mash Stern up.

Troy 8)

Dred you campaigning fuh some kinda c**t award or what??  When Disgruntled make dat .gif ah Stern after the El Sal penalty miss I was one ah de most vocal man saying it was shit.  Go back and pull any one ah dem thread and yuh'll see fuh yuhself instead ah talking dat presumptive pack ah ass.

Typical crab in ah f**king barrel... pulling down one man tuh try and elevate another.

Offline kounty

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Re: Stats don't lie! Stern John 2005 vs Kenwyne Jones 2009
« Reply #54 on: September 10, 2009, 08:39:21 PM »
Like KJ is allya golden boy someone make an gif mashing up Stern i aint hear you say nothing then.
I quote some stats highlighting his lack of goal scoring  and you vex
outside with you
If it was the other way around ppl like you would not have hesitated to mash Stern up.

Troy 8)

Dred you campaigning fuh some kinda c**t award or what??  When Disgruntled make dat .gif ah Stern after the El Sal penalty miss I was one ah de most vocal man saying it was shit.  Go back and pull any one ah dem thread and yuh'll see fuh yuhself instead ah talking dat presumptive pack ah ass.

Typical crab in ah f**king barrel... pulling down one man tuh try and elevate another.
I hear yuh bredda.  I don't know who it goin and benefit to break kenwyn down.

Offline Quags

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Re: Stats don't lie! Stern John 2005 vs Kenwyne Jones 2009
« Reply #55 on: September 10, 2009, 08:45:18 PM »
cant take every post as a full orn assault . Just it is what it is .Am sure Troy  wants him do well in England ,but hes totally useless  as a strike option for us .  Hey some players flop for there country but do well for there clubs,eint no shame . But we doh need him ,cause he doh produce for us maybe in the future ,but I woulda prefer Stern over the last week myself .
« Last Edit: September 10, 2009, 09:16:07 PM by Quagmire »

Offline Bakes

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Re: Stats don't lie! Stern John 2005 vs Kenwyne Jones 2009
« Reply #56 on: September 10, 2009, 09:14:09 PM »
Me eh holding no brief fuh nobody... I give each man his due.  When Kenwyne first sign with Sunderland and was everybody flavor of de month I was de one getting pong fuh saying on dis board dat he need to cut out de extra stuff... de flipping and dancing and carrying on after every goal.  Why?  because once he fails to do it consistently he go look like ah damn ass... showing off and carrying on and barely doing anything to justify it.

Same way me and Berris get into it before because I criticize Stern... but I does also support Stern and defend him when man talking shit about it.  The problem with some ah we is that we don't know what 'constructive criticism' means... let alone how to give it.  Is only ah fight down.  Today dey is yuh friend, tomorrow they saying yuh is "shit" and "dotish" and "lazy"... and what not.  I juss doh get why some of these so-called SocaWarriors "supporters" feel like they have to cry down and belittle our national players when half ah dem cyah even make ah all-Savannah team.
« Last Edit: September 10, 2009, 09:15:47 PM by Bake n Shark »

Offline Quags

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Re: Stats don't lie! Stern John 2005 vs Kenwyne Jones 2009
« Reply #57 on: September 10, 2009, 09:24:01 PM »
Its so sad we have to attack our players ,but is the only way for our blind coaches to take them of the team .And they stil doh listen .......is useless .f**k. What you need to go M.I.T to know ...........wait who we should use as a striker instead of kenwyne or scotty ..............Glen and ...Tinto??

Offline Quags

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Re: Stats don't lie! Stern John 2005 vs Kenwyne Jones 2009
« Reply #58 on: September 10, 2009, 09:31:49 PM »
We dont have a good striker do we .....just converted wingers dont we ! Forbes ? hmm  we don"t have one.we have to either convert Tinto or wait for Winchester and Gay. And am not sold on Gay
« Last Edit: September 10, 2009, 09:33:26 PM by Quagmire »

Offline weary1969

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Re: Stats don't lie! Stern John 2005 vs Kenwyne Jones 2009
« Reply #59 on: September 10, 2009, 11:19:38 PM »
great memories of the game against guatemala in '05... at halftime 3/4 of the uncovered stands was bawling for stern to come off as the team was walking off the field... he had every right to cuss all of us when he made it 3-2. lol

dat is still d best game i have ever seen soca warriors play live. dat is a game i think i will never forget.

Dat is d game dat take meh heart again b4 dat I was supportin wit meh head but could not take d pressure so I kept meh heart but after dat 3-2 meh heart went. I need to go back wit meh head it easier to recover.
Today you're the dog, tomorrow you're the hydrant - so be good to others - it comes back!"