Are we losing our magic.

[Deeks]

Ryan,
         I a'in't go argue what you mean by magic. We could go on and on and on. To say that only Latas had magic is stretching it a bit to far.

[Blue]

Ryan,
         I a'in't go argue what you mean by magic. We could go on and on and on. To say that only Latas had magic is stretching it a bit to far.

By magic I mean talent combined with trickery on an international level. I might be younger dan many on dis board (can remember back to 1988, no further), but I don't recall anyone playing against International opposition other than Latas who was/is able to trap a ball, hit a man a spanner and then have the vision to pick out a killer pass, all in the same passage of play. I could be wrong, please tell me I am  (PS - no Intercol stories please)

[Socafan]

Football has changed. The kinda football allyuh like, the rest of the world stop playing since the '60's. The game now is based on SPEED, and STRENGTH  in combination, the epitome of which is BRAZIL. When last have you watched them play. To excel in today's game, yuh team needs to be big, strong, fast and be technically proficient. Back in the day all yuh needed to have was good ball control.

Maybe I'm biased but our current U20 team is the best we have ever had. They are competent in every position. They lost the tactical game against Egypt is what I see, and lost it badly. We have a coaching problem, as usual. To make matters worse, our team was obviously well scouted, because Egypt was playing right in that gap between Defence and midfield. You can bet we knew NOTHING about Egypt before we met them. I have no doubt when the right team/coach combination is found, it will prove to be an unusually good team, because in my estimation, unlike too many people here, we finally have a team with all the basic ingredients in all positions.

Stay tuned.

[Ngozi]

Simple things cause big problems in that Egypt game ... namely marking ... men not marking their opponents and
even when they are as soon as the opponents move they don't track them off the ball and attacking wise this Egypt team moves off the ball well and quickly too ... I remember the goal that come off the post and hit Thomson to score ...that goal was coming a play before that.... men set up for the free kick and three Trinidad
defenders line up in front three Egyptian players not marking each other i say wey sah when they finally wake up one man was sleeping and leave his man free and he run from deep and head to goal and the keeper save simple man to man marking ...... then with the corner now the marking was better man to man but the man who score drop off and did his man did go with him?  No! he choose to stay in the 6 yd box and what happen ....goal ...track yuh f**king opponents .... this is kindergarten shit cmon .... we have no defensive discipline!

[Brownsugar]

Ngozi....yuh nearly make mih cry....ah going and pull out mih DVD copies of our WC 2006 games.....a revisit to the good ole days is overdue...*sigh*   

[just cool]

Hell this might be my farewell tread oui ,cause my faith in our ability has finally been shaken.I use to just ignore Kicker and Filho eh ,but I beleive now WE SUCK lol .These boys cyah f**king play .Bunch ah wanna be jokers.
If alyah see a man rolling down ah hill is just me jumping off the wagon  bye .

Love.

Breds , if yuh want tuh leave and stop posting, then by all means do so, but just do it for the right reasons, or else yuh would look like one ah dem ppl who didn't attend the USA game @ home BC our chances of qualifying was slim.

i would say leave yes! but not BC the players pool drying up, but rather the TTFF eh care bout we football and does do their endeavor best tuh cripple our chances of being amongst the top three in concacaf .

leave BC the same TTFF not allowing some of our better players to take the field.

leave BC the TTFF would not invest in ah quality coach, one who could prepare us for the future, leave BC the TTFF did not, and would not acknowledge FPATT!

leave BC jack warner and camps would not do the right thing and admit they ran out of ideas and allow fair elections so the football could move forward.

leave BC it look like latas and yorke iz dictators just like their predecessors, and if given the chance could be just as destructive as camps and his master.

but doh tell me yuh want out BC we not talented enough! i'll tell yuh this, and it may come as a shock to you, but i rather lose miserably with my best team and an ambitious fair federation, than tuh go to the WC every yr and be in our condition with the TTFF, warner and his cronies.

i'd rather be in the position of a barbados, or grenada, hek! even all the minovs.  why? that's BC they have ppl who care even though not too bright, but none the less running their football with heart and soul even though with limited talent and resources, but is in controll of their own destiny.

 they don't have ah jack $ borrell like TNT and jamaica, and if they stay like that, then i give them 10 yrs before they start seriously competing for places in the top three in cocacacaf.

i'd rather take time and build with the right ppl on board, than to be in the running for WC every yr wid all the bacchanal and turmoil associated with this disfunctional federation.

bottom line? if we lose this putrid federation and instill ah better more competent functional federation, then we would do way better.           jack and camps have to go! for us to grow!

[Dutty]

Ah cyar stop to read the whole thread (ah have pot on the fire  )

 yuh cookin? or yuh dyeing clothes?

[Observer]

Ah cyar stop to read the whole thread (ah have pot on the fire  )

 yuh cookin? or yuh dyeing clothes?

 

I don't think T&T has lost much. We just don't have enough quality in every position. No different than any other time. In the 70's we had a good generation (were robbed), in the 80's we had some good players Bert Neptune, Spanner, Sammy generation, but the ban hurt T&T football. Then came Latas, Nixon, Leonson and Yorke, arguably the best generation, who amazingly did not qualify. Ok we qualified in 2006 despite that fact that we did not have the best, but to say we will be consistent is asking a lot. We now looking for the next generation, but standards are getting higher

[Arimaman]

Simple things cause big problems in that Egypt game ... namely marking ... men not marking their opponents and
even when they are as soon as the opponents move they don't track them off the ball and attacking wise this Egypt team moves off the ball well and quickly too ... I remember the goal that come off the post and hit Thomson to score ...that goal was coming a play before that.... men set up for the free kick and three Trinidad
defenders line up in front three Egyptian players not marking each other i say wey sah when they finally wake up one man was sleeping and leave his man free and he run from deep and head to goal and the keeper save simple man to man marking ...... then with the corner now the marking was better man to man but the man who score drop off and did his man did go with him?  No! he choose to stay in the 6 yd box and what happen ....goal ...track yuh f**king opponents .... this is kindergarten shit cmon .... we have no defensive discipline!

Everybody knows when yuh playing trini we doh track and we have no discipline..that eh nothing knew Ngozi...why yuh surpised?

[weary1969]

Ah cyar stop to read the whole thread (ah have pot on the fire  )

 yuh cookin? or yuh dyeing clothes?

 

[Ngozi]

Ah cyar stop to read the whole thread (ah have pot on the fire  )

 yuh cookin? or yuh dyeing clothes?

lol

[Ngozi]

Simple things cause big problems in that Egypt game ... namely marking ... men not marking their opponents and
even when they are as soon as the opponents move they don't track them off the ball and attacking wise this Egypt team moves off the ball well and quickly too ... I remember the goal that come off the post and hit Thomson to score ...that goal was coming a play before that.... men set up for the free kick and three Trinidad
defenders line up in front three Egyptian players not marking each other i say wey sah when they finally wake up one man was sleeping and leave his man free and he run from deep and head to goal and the keeper save simple man to man marking ...... then with the corner now the marking was better man to man but the man who score drop off and did his man did go with him?  No! he choose to stay in the 6 yd box and what happen ....goal ...track yuh f**king opponents .... this is kindergarten shit cmon .... we have no defensive discipline!

Everybody knows when yuh playing trini we doh track and we have no discipline..that eh nothing knew Ngozi...why yuh surpised?

Brentos I cyar help it ...... if we do that alone wit this team or the senior team even if we eh learn to control the ball or even pass but if we improve in that dept of tracking players you'll see a marked improvement  ... if we dont do that it doesnt even make sense we go onto the pitch because we at least good for three!   

[dwolfman]

Flare is all well and good, but what does that have to do with winning football games? In the end we'd rather lose 5-0 and see our players dribble and look pretty than lose 4-1 with simple structure and tactics. What is this magic that we no longer have? Were we world beaters before and can't manage to win games now? Dribbling, juggling, etc. never won football games. The ability to control and pass, do all the simple things first is what matters because if you can't even control the ball for yourself when you getting the chance to "beats"?

19 years ago we looked like minnows, lucky to be in the tournament. There wasn't one match where we looked like we belonged there. At least after one match (still time for that to change) we looked like we could play the game, even with all the tactical mistakes.

[lefty]

Flare is all well and good, but what does that have to do with winning football games? In the end we'd rather lose 5-0 and see our players dribble and look pretty than lose 4-1 with simple structure and tactics. What is this magic that we no longer have? Were we world beaters before and can't manage to win games now? Dribbling, juggling, etc. never won football games. The ability to control and pass, do all the simple things first is what matters because if you can't even control the ball for yourself when you getting the chance to "beats"?

19 years ago we looked like minnows, lucky to be in the tournament. There wasn't one match where we looked like we belonged there. At least after one match (still time for that to change) we looked like we could play the game, even with all the tactical mistakes.

most sense spoken here thus far

[Lightning]

This is age group ball we talking bout.  T&T is more a U19 than a U 20 team. Jake is 20  years 4 months so he has almost a year on the rest of the team in terms of maturity and development.  Unless you looking at special players like messi or fabregas, that age difference will always show on the field in age group ball (John D or Sando Tech 1980s?)

 
The average age of the T&T starting 11 on  Thursday was 19 yrs 2 months. 
The average age of the Egypt team was 19 years 7 months. Italy will be 19 years 8 months. Paraguay will be around 19 years 7 months.

[dwolfman]

This is age group ball we talking bout.  T&T is more a U19 than a U 20 team. Jake is 20  years 4 months so he has almost a year on the rest of the team in terms of maturity and development.  Unless you looking at special players like messi or fabregas, that age difference will always show on the field in age group ball (John D or Sando Tech 1980s?)

 The average age of the T&T starting 11 on  Thursday was 19 yrs 2 months. 
The average age of the Egypt team was 19 years 7 months. Italy will be 19 years 8 months. Paraguay will be around 19 years 7 months.

Maturity wise and physically that isn't going to make much difference. Perhaps if we were fielding a bunch of 16-17 years olds, but not this group. I think the difference is in their professional experience. Our opponents typically have been playing at a higher level for a longer period of time. That has nothing to do with their age.

[Quags]

Flare is all well and good, but what does that have to do with winning football games? In the end we'd rather lose 5-0 and see our players dribble and look pretty than lose 4-1 with simple structure and tactics. What is this magic that we no longer have? Were we world beaters before and can't manage to win games now? Dribbling, juggling, etc. never won football games. The ability to control and pass, do all the simple things first is what matters because if you can't even control the ball for yourself when you getting the chance to "beats"?

19 years ago we looked like minnows, lucky to be in the tournament. There wasn't one match where we looked like we belonged there. At least after one match (still time for that to change) we looked like we could play the game, even with all the tactical mistakes.

most sense spoken here thus far

Wrong it makes very little,if he read the posts and really understand ,is the same thing he saying. It all goes together like white on rice." Control ,passing ".dribbling ,juggling all forms together in a wonderfull symmetry ,poetry in motion ,when u have the gifts and practice working together.

[lefty]

Flare is all well and good, but what does that have to do with winning football games? In the end we'd rather lose 5-0 and see our players dribble and look pretty than lose 4-1 with simple structure and tactics. What is this magic that we no longer have? Were we world beaters before and can't manage to win games now? Dribbling, juggling, etc. never won football games. The ability to control and pass, do all the simple things first is what matters because if you can't even control the ball for yourself when you getting the chance to "beats"?

19 years ago we looked like minnows, lucky to be in the tournament. There wasn't one match where we looked like we belonged there. At least after one match (still time for that to change) we looked like we could play the game, even with all the tactical mistakes.

most sense spoken here thus far

Wrong it makes very little,if he read the posts and really understand ,is the same thing he saying. It all goes together like white on rice." Control ,passing ".dribbling ,juggling all forms together in a wonderfull symmetry ,poetry in motion ,when u have the gifts and practice working together.

my point is our football has to let that pass, we never had much else to offer especially against technically proficient teams and now that even ball skills is elluding us, dont u think that build technically proficient teams that atleast can executed in ALL the games BASIC fundamentals, though be it somewhat drone like, will serve us much better than a bunch of individuals who are good at putting circus performances and then simply loose the ball, we have to start from scratch, and stop with d attitude dat ah workman like team only ugly and boring, if d team have d fundamentals down, which we rarely ever did, we can only go up from there................having said dat though, they need to re-learn the concept of building from d back............ our teams now seem to have ah short passing fobia nowadays

point is we have play the beautyful game ugly, until we learn to TRULY play d game. 1989 gone 

[g]

In spite of all of this, we still feature in world championships, there are other countries that never have qualified for a FIFA tournament at any level.

Countries with 100x the resources availble. Go figure

[dwolfman]

In spite of all of this, we still feature in world championships, there are other countries that never have qualified for a FIFA tournament at any level.

Countries with 100x the resources availble. Go figure

Give examples of countries with massive resources that do not qualify for "world championships", please? The fact that we qualify for world cups is more accidental than systematic. To be satisfied to wait for the next "fluke" team to qualify will make us more frustrated.

NB I am taking nothing away from the work that this team has put in to get to where they are today.

most sense spoken here thus far

Wrong it makes very little,if he read the posts and really understand ,is the same thing he saying. It all goes together like white on rice." Control ,passing ".dribbling ,juggling all forms together in a wonderfull symmetry ,poetry in motion ,when u have the gifts and practice working together.

If what I am saying is the same as what you are saying then how come it makes very little sense?

Poetry in motion, as you put it, is a concept of flair and that has nothing to do with winning football games. You referenced lack of dribbling skills and basically said that you aren’t impressed with Jake Thompson because all he does is play the game simple. It’s interesting to note that not Paul, Gay or Hyland are coming in for praise in this tournament from the commentator and fans, but the simple and effective way that Thompson is approaching the game. That is what footballers need to be able to do first.

[Quags]

It eint making sense cause you disgreeing with me .All I saying learn great  ball control ,which you could do before the age of 13 ,Me eint saying doh learn what alyah torking about .What wrong with being able to raise ah football ? is all ball control ,just practise with u habging out after ah sweat.

[dinho]

wait nuh is not 1-1?

this alt-tabbing thing in work steups.

[dwolfman]

It eint making sense cause you disgreeing with me .All I saying learn great  ball control ,which you could do before the age of 13 ,Me eint saying doh learn what alyah torking about .What wrong with being able to raise ah football ? is all ball control ,just practise with u habging out after ah sweat.

I never said you aren't making sense. I asked how can what I said not be making sense if according to you we are saying the same thing. Also, I am not agreeing or disagreeing with you on anything. All I have been saying is that you seem to be focusing on the flair of the game. This is not even referencing specifically juggling which is important because it demonstrates ball control.

We've just played 45 minutes against Italy and despite a lot of mistakes we look like we belong at that level. The 1990 team, by no stretch of the imagination, did not look like they belonged. Also, I asked what was magical about our international accomplishments before that justifies the statement that we have lost our magic?

[Quags]

It eint making sense cause you disgreeing with me .All I saying learn great  ball control ,which you could do before the age of 13 ,Me eint saying doh learn what alyah torking about .What wrong with being able to raise ah football ? is all ball control ,just practise with u habging out after ah sweat.

I never said you aren't making sense. I asked how can what I said not be making sense if according to you we are saying the same thing. Also, I am not agreeing or disagreeing with you on anything. All I have been saying is that you seem to be focusing on the flair of the game. This is not even referencing specifically juggling which is important because it demonstrates ball control.

We've just played 45 minutes against Italy and despite a lot of mistakes we look like we belong at that level. The 1990 team, by no stretch of the imagination, did not look like they belonged. Also, I asked what was magical about our international accomplishments before that justifies the statement that we have lost our magic?

Why ppl keep saying this ,I never said anything about International accomplishments ,I just say locally we had really tricky players ,that we believed could be world beaters  .
As for today I asked for heart desire and standing your ground against on coming attackers and they showed me that they could do it . Job well done ,take out your fustration of today on Paraguay, Men .

[D.H.W]

In spite of all of this, we still feature in world championships, there are other countries that never have qualified for a FIFA tournament at any level.

Countries with 100x the resources availble. Go figure

Give examples of countries with massive resources that do not qualify for "world championships", please? The fact that we qualify for world cups is more accidental than systematic. To be satisfied to wait for the next "fluke" team to qualify will make us more frustrated.

it have nothing accidental with U17 AND U20 qualification they earn they spot.

[dwolfman]

In spite of all of this, we still feature in world championships, there are other countries that never have qualified for a FIFA tournament at any level.

Countries with 100x the resources availble. Go figure

Give examples of countries with massive resources that do not qualify for "world championships", please? The fact that we qualify for world cups is more accidental than systematic. To be satisfied to wait for the next "fluke" team to qualify will make us more frustrated.

it have nothing accidental with U17 AND U20 qualification they earn they spot.

My lord, please put a hand. How did you miss the simple point so comprehensively. Of course they earned their spot, however, we do not have a system for consistently qualifying for these tournaments, hence accidental. What the f**k does earning their spot have to do with that?

[soccerman]

My whole thing is this, our team will not be able to compete and win big games often when our players are not exposed to playing at a high level consistiently meaning week in and week out. Granted that the game today could've gone either way, if our players were used to playing top flight football with players there age we would know how to battle in close contests like that especially from the stand point of being able to concentrate for the entire duration of the game. It's not easy to go beat and Italian team just like that, it's more than just being able to control and pass....whcih we still need to improve on btw.
Almost of T&T's national players around the age of 14-17 critical developmental ages, play secondary schools football which is the standard to assess our young talent and when you look at the other players from the European and South American countries, the top players are in an academy linked to a professional club being developed by quality coaches and playing at a high level week in and week out. If you look at the roster of the Italians and see the clubs their palyers are linked to and compare it to ours....HUGE difference.
If you compare a 5 year old child in Trinidad and a 5 year old child in England for example, they both are run and kick the ball roughly the same way. If you compare these two players 15 years later at the age of 20 and say they both represent their country, the English player is far more technical, mentally stronger, fitter, makes better decisions...on average than the Trinidad player. Why? Something is different in each player's development during that 15 years, those players are exposed to things we're not. Until we find a way to develop our players in an enviornment where they practice and play at a high level from young, rubbing shoulders with the best, we'll never be able to compete consistiently, in our outside CONCACAF!!! We might shock a big team once in a while but if we want to be a power house, forget that!

[Coop's]

My whole thing is this, our team will not be able to compete and win big games often when our players are not exposed to playing at a high level consistiently meaning week in and week out. Granted that the game today could've gone either way, if our players were used to playing top flight football with players there age we would know how to battle in close contests like that especially from the stand point of being able to concentrate for the entire duration of the game. It's not easy to go beat and Italian team just like that, it's more than just being able to control and pass....whcih we still need to improve on btw.
Almost of T&T's national players around the age of 14-17 critical developmental ages, play secondary schools football which is the standard to assess our young talent and when you look at the other players from the European and South American countries, the top players are in an academy linked to a professional club being developed by quality coaches and playing at a high level week in and week out. If you look at the roster of the Italians and see the clubs their palyers are linked to and compare it to ours....HUGE difference.
If you compare a 5 year old child in Trinidad and a 5 year old child in England for example, they both are run and kick the ball roughly the same way. If you compare these two players 15 years later at the age of 20 and say they both represent their country, the English player is far more technical, mentally stronger, fitter, makes better decisions...on average than the Trinidad player. Why? Something is different in each player's development during that 15 years, those players are exposed to things we're not. Until we find a way to develop our players in an enviornment where they practice and play at a high level from young, rubbing shoulders with the best, we'll never be able to compete consistiently, in our outside CONCACAF!!! We might shock a big team once in a while but if we want to be a power house, forget that!

      :applause:well said.