We are encouraging slackness

[Jah Gol]

I have been following this team since they were U15s. I've maintained that if the TTFF is getting anything right its the development of this stream of players. I share the view of  dissatisfaction with losing after playing bravely. It's a cop out in most cases. This performance however must be into perspective. It is clear we must do more to develop a winning mentality. However I don't think we should denigrate the progress made. We must objectively assess our performance and determine which areas need to be improved.  We must encourage our young players to work harder and smarter together in the quest for footballing excellence.

[palos]

I think where this performance is worthy of praise is not so much in the physical effort put out on the field, as great as it was, by the players.

It wasn't even that we've made progress and were truly unlucky to LOSE the match IMO...a draw would have been just reward I felt based on the balance of play.

I think this performance is noteable and praiseworthy mostly because for the first time I have been watching T&T football.....we played an opponent of the calibre of Italy....on the biggest stage these guys could play....and BELIEVE we could beat them.

You could see that our guys were not overawed.  We weren't beaten before the kickoff because it was Italy.  I saw GENUINE BELIEF that we could beat these guys.  And I don't remember seeing that ever before...not in Germany....not anywhere.

Maybe is jes me and I chose to see that or chose to ignore it on other occasions that it happened.  But when yuh see Hyland on de ground after de game, cryin...and yuh see de faces of we players...yuh realize dat dey KNEW...we coulda beat dem...it didn't happen.

DAT to me, is progress.

[NYtriniwhiteboy..]

palos yuh took the words out meh mouth...well said

[dumpalewie]

We are getting what we truly deserve and this shite about  good performance  and cinderella team is smoke being blown up our arse,   we playing the game like there is  no thought process involved in it, mind u the 1st thing to go when  a man tired is his "thinking" ablity.   ok so we we werent embarrassed, so everybody good. was that our aim? was that why all the money and time was invested? To not be embarrassed? we will never meet a weaker italian side than this one.

We went neck and neck with the italians so we should hold our heads  high, absoulte  and utter poppy cock.  no wonder we  cant produce a team that can  be world beaters, we still battling with inferiority complexes. how did the usa beat spain at the confed cup by saying this is the #1 team in the world  so we would do good to jus go neck to neck with them and lose.

our aim is way too low and I for one will not be congratulating this team who vex lost ,this is big men football. you screwed urself and i cannot applaud that. i really hate when we throw away a game announcers coming and say they made us proud. After all this time and effort to not b in contention to make the 2nd round  is really heart breaking  4 me. i cannot express that enough.if italy dont lose a game but dont make it out of this group u think the italian media would say this team made them proud?. not a chance in hell. we are settingthe standards   too low and for us competing is a win.  thats a losers mentality. i must admit as much as some jamiacans annoy me  sometimes i admire the mentality that they have, that no one is better than them and that mentality is evident in the way they play all sports. imagine a jamaican pardner giving me talks about their horse that won in santa rosa geez they compete 4 everything.

 i really hate to lose  to a side thats not physically better than us. we need to stop encouraging a losers mentality   where jus competing makes us proud. if so then we dont belong on the world stage.

This is a pack ah assness yuh write here!!!

You have no concept of scale.

No one here likes to lose and we are not happy to be second best. People are only encouraged by a good performance. You have to crawl before you can walk. When have we ever been competitive at this level? In 1994 when USA lost 1-0 to a te-man Brazil team, were they slating their team? No, they were happy with the performance. In fact, the same team that beat Spain were commended for their performance in the final even though they lost after being 2-up.

Come again with this nonsense!!!

[Observer]

Did not see the game, but I spoke to several people who did (& they have no ties to T&T). They were impressed with T&T, especially after the Egypt performance. The most telling comment in my opinion was that T&T simply lost to a team that had experience enough to understand how to control T&T's game strengths & play for a result.
Now this is easy to say after the game, especially since nobody knows how Italy would have reacted should T&T have gone ahead.

All said indications are the T&T team showed marked improvement.

[dumpalewie]

i just curious.. what is allyuh expectations?

the team fight hard, and give sweat and blood.. we compensate for our inferior skill with superior fight.

we score a disallowed goal, when the man was offside on a technicality.

we rock up dey cross bar.. we test their keeper a few times well.. we bore dem to equalize and at that point was still pushing forward.

what more it is allyuh want again?

lawd i really feel i not from here dread.   werent u one of them who was talking in disgust of the spanner hyland rest on gerrard but lost d ball or something  like that?so  we rock their post so what? thats what u all  feeling proud of?. losing a game that we should of won? inferior skill? what game u was watching. u all are seeing ITaly  and like a wild animal in a head light allyuh freeze. inferiority complex. that is a weak  weak italian side who paraguay shoulda well brush up. expect egypt to boobolize them.  
what i am gathering is the fact that u ask what was our expectations means yours for the team was very low.    i expected this team to b in contention for the 2nd rounds and i said that b4 the tournament started.  so 4 u the team is exceeding expectations 4 me they have underperformed badly.   in that case    i wouldnt  spew flith on the board anymore, after all  a mentality does not come over night.

 BE CHAMPIONS ( insert sarcasm here)

Except that Paraguay did not brush them up.

[freakazoid]

 


this thread is dejavu though, strange anyways.

 let mi break down 4 allyuh,  if a A+ student gets a B on a test do u congratulate and applaud them? no. u said u n do bad but i really expected better. however if    a D student gets a B u r overjoyed and u heap praises on them. the whole thing is , i viewed our team as A+ while most viewed it as D. thats it plain and simple.

after seeing italy play against paraguay i am sure we would of beaten them.  we had  the chance to and we blew it. contrast that to someone who  think italy would murder us  and didnt. we would really have totally different emotions after the game.  cant break it down further than that.



yeah and 4 those who find ah talk assness . keep it hush hush, manning  may get jealous

[Bakes]

this thread is dejavu though, strange anyways.

 let mi break down 4 allyuh,  if a A+ student gets a B on a test do u congratulate and applaud them? no. u said u n do bad but i really expected better. however if    a D student gets a B u r overjoyed and u heap praises on them. the whole thing is , i viewed our team as A+ while most viewed it as D. thats it plain and simple.

after seeing italy play against paraguay i am sure we would of beaten them.  we had  the chance to and we blew it. contrast that to someone who  think italy would murder us  and didnt. we would really have totally different emotions after the game.  cant break it down further than that.



yeah and 4 those who find ah talk assness . keep it hush hush, manning  may get jealous

So in short you not vex because the team didn't do well enough... you just vex b/c they didn't live up to your inflated expectations?  Compared to the competition they're facing at the WC I don't think you can call this team A+

[Big Magician]

too too... and very stink too too

[Socafan]

Freak I hear yuh yes man. Yuh hold this team in high regard. Me too. So when they eh do as well as yuh feel they should, thats a failure and somebody feet should be held to the fire. I agree. But for me the knock should not be on the team but on the coaching staff. I with yuh, no way this particular team, with so much quality shouldn't have made it to next round.......but it was bound to happen because the coaching wasn't/isn't great. I reserve my fire for the coaching staff, not the team.

The team was playing to instruction, kicking ball straight up top to tall forwards. That might be a good concept, except that our crossing and passing is not competent enough for that. Flawed coaching. This team needs a possession game through midfield. One setta man feel we players cyar dribble anymore. Thats because we eh getting to see the team play possession through the middle to the top of the box. What's annoying is that they CAN play the possession game, and knock ball through the box. We cyar even get Leston Paul in gear with the way they playing. Madness.

Doh knock the team rasta. My hope is a coach materializes who can bring out the best in these youths.....Latapy .....!!?? Wha yuh say?

[freakazoid]

that fact that allyuh interpreting wat i say all how is very interesting and its  kiinna mirroring   your  mentality . u all r saying cause the team  name italy we shouldnt beat them. i am not dealing with that. i am dealing with the italy team that was at this tournament (a weak team) and if u all after watching that game not disheartened that we lost but rather happy that we put up a fight  then we really on 2 different pages and we will have to agree to disagree.  the reason y our players play better for  their clubs may not be much of a mystery now that i think of it.


jus off the issue , if i say some black ppl are racist against "themself" would u say that i talking rubbish. jus curious

[kicker]

this thread is dejavu though, strange anyways.

 let mi break down 4 allyuh,  if a A+ student gets a B on a test do u congratulate and applaud them? no. u said u n do bad but i really expected better. however if    a D student gets a B u r overjoyed and u heap praises on them. the whole thing is , i viewed our team as A+ while most viewed it as D. thats it plain and simple.

after seeing italy play against paraguay i am sure we would of beaten them.  we had  the chance to and we blew it. contrast that to someone who  think italy would murder us  and didnt. we would really have totally different emotions after the game.  cant break it down further than that.



yeah and 4 those who find ah talk assness . keep it hush hush, manning  may get jealous

Freak based on this post, I think you overrated our team, and you underrated Italy.  Seriously, there was nothing to suggest that we would beat Italy.  There was nothing to suggest that we'd win a game in our group.  Our pre-tournament results weren't that good.  We lost to the U.S.  We lost to Australia.  We qualified 4th out of our confederation.  Not one of our players plays at a top club.  Our coaching staff is relatively unacccomplished.  You talk about after seeing Italy against Paraguay?  Italy got a point.  We lost our first game by 3 goals!!!  How could you view us as A+ ?  You're applying an inconsistent measuring stick in your assessment of Italy, as compared with your assessment of T&T.

This Italy team was weaker than one would expect Italy to be.  In all fairness, alot of their good youth players were not selected for this tournament- but even so, they were better than we were.  As bravely as we played today, Italy still had the upper hand on us in every department of the game.  They outpossessed us, They had twice as many shots as we did, and almost 3 times as many shots on target...and most importantly they put the ball in the back of the net more than we did.... Individually and collectively they were better.  The overall level of their play was better than ours, and it doesn't take much knowledge of football to see that individually and collectively they had more quality than we did...As weak as you thought they are, the fact is we are weaker, and you have no basis to refute that.

You overrated the young warriors, and you had no basis for doing so.   Doh vex with everyone else. 

We played as well as any indicators would suggest...and even better....loser mentality or not, we have all reason to applaud our team.

[Trini]

depends on how u view it...glass half full or half empty.

i believe the optimistic view is better in encouraging improvement.

Is like parenting for a child.

If you look at our history on the world stage of football, lets be honest, we are barely causing ripples.

we have qualified for 4 tournaments (hosted one other, so i won't realy count that too much as an actual on-d-field-achievement).

In the first tournament in 1991, we concede like 12 goals without scoring, totally outclassed with Dwight Yorke.

In 2006 in germany, we showed improvement by actually being competitive and getting our first point. the world took some notice.

in the U-17 in 2007, we scored our first goal (discounting the 2001 tournament in T&T), although we were comprehensively beaten in all the games.

Now in 2009, the U-20's are again competitive, and now scored in back to back games.

That to me shows some improvement over the 4 tournaments. If we were to score and be competitive vs Paraguay on thursday, that will be very good. The players now believe they can actually get points in world finals.  The mere fact that we arguing about how we should react when we lose in a FIFA finals tournament is in itself a good thing.
lets also not forget that we played perhaps the biggest name in world football that we have ever played (outside of Brazil a few times in the past). They are pure class, you can see it by that second goal they scored. There is no shame in losing to a goal like that.

Moving forward, the next important step for our football is to start blending some of these players with the senior team, and including the likes of Atilluah Guerra, Peltier and Elton john etc for what should be on paper one of our strongest ever assembled Olympic Teams. Qualifying for the Olympics should be viewed as absolutely essential. It will mean we will be the first caribbean nation to qualify ALL its teams for FIFA tournaments.

The game vs Paraguay will go a long way in defining how this tournament went for us.
A creditable display will round off a decent tournament.
A heavy defeat will damage our brave fight thus far.

The other big difference with this team and the seniors, you could see the fight in these youngsters. Losing is never a good thing, but when u give it your all, its a little easier to accept.

good luck vs Paraguay, which will  be a VERY VERY tough game, perhaps the toughest of all 3 games, as they still fighting for a qualification spot and we traditionally do not do well agasint these types of teams....

[dumpalewie]

this thread is dejavu though, strange anyways.

 let mi break down 4 allyuh,  if a A+ student gets a B on a test do u congratulate and applaud them? no. u said u n do bad but i really expected better. however if    a D student gets a B u r overjoyed and u heap praises on them. the whole thing is , i viewed our team as A+ while most viewed it as D. thats it plain and simple.

after seeing italy play against paraguay i am sure we would of beaten them.  we had  the chance to and we blew it. contrast that to someone who  think italy would murder us  and didnt. we would really have totally different emotions after the game.  cant break it down further than that.



yeah and 4 those who find ah talk assness . keep it hush hush, manning  may get jealous

Freak based on this post, I think you overrated our team, and you underrated Italy.  Seriously, there was nothing to suggest that we would beat Italy.  There was nothing to suggest that we'd win a game in our group.  Our pre-tournament results weren't that good.  We lost to the U.S.  We lost to Australia.  We qualified 4th out of our confederation.  Not one of our players plays at a top club.  Our coaching staff is relatively unacccomplished.  You talk about after seeing Italy against Paraguay?  Italy got a point.  We lost our first game by 3 goals!!!  How could you view us as A+ ?  You're applying an inconsistent measuring stick in your assessment of Italy, as compared with your assessment of T&T.

This Italy team was weaker than one would expect Italy to be.  In all fairness, alot of their good youth players were not selected for this tournament- but even so, they were better than we were.  As bravely as we played today, Italy still had the upper hand on us in every department of the game.  They outpossessed us, They had twice as many shots as we did, and almost 3 times as many shots on target...and most importantly they put the ball in the back of the net more than we did.... Individually and collectively they were better.  The overall level of their play was better than ours, and it doesn't take much knowledge of football to see that individually and collectively they had more quality than we did...As weak as you thought they are, the fact is we are weaker, and you have no basis to refute that.

You overrated the young warriors, and you had no basis for doing so.   Doh vex with everyone else. 

We played as well as any indicators would suggest...and even better....loser mentality or not, we have all reason to applaud our team.

Well said!!!

[elan]

Alyuh not easy nah. T&F is an individual sport, where we were whipping the US recently.

Football teams need 22 players of which at least 14 needs to be 1st class. It will always be tough to get that with us from out limited player resources.

It's like being 5'4 and always wanting to be the dominant player in the NBA.

[Raul]

Performance = f(Natural Talent, Sustained Investment)

If I coulda have 22 children (for different mothers) and house them, clothe them, feed them and provide a coach & facilities for 20 years, then I sure Trinidad would win the World Cup.

It have nothing to do with size and probability, it is about taking the raw talent (which we have) and having a sustained & structured investment (which we can do, but don't).

[kicker]

If I coulda have 22 children (for different mothers) and house them, clothe them, feed them and provide a coach & facilities for 20 years, then I sure Trinidad would win the World Cup.

Propose that strategy to the TTFF...

[Touches]

I watching it this way....we work real hard to reach where we reach.

We did good considering the opposition, atmosphere, level of skill from the players and calibre of opposition.

But we will never anytime soon, get the chance to beat them two side again.

It was an opportunity lost.

We ent fed up learn from our mistakes...why it is a TT side from junior to senior cyar get it right when it matters.

We did so vs Guatemala, Mexico, Bahrain, Sweden and Bermuda...the rest is a setta hard luck horse...better next time.

I kinda on the side with Freakazoid in that we like to validate hard luck and excuses. Instead of overcoming them and getting it right when it matters.

Also yuh want to say Hard luck they try their best...and their best wasnt good enough...but really dat wasn't they best...and it is what they put out wasnt good enough.

Everyman on the team can play better or be more effective than what they show out there...we all know what they capable of and they did not deliver when it mattered.

Palos hit the nail on the head...they were crying cause they knew they could have won...and them fellas will never get nuttin so in life again.

But I proud of them, I glad we step up, I glad we can compete and we have shown the world we not there to make up numbers. Improvements noted and we move from creeping...we in waddling and fall down stage.

[Observer]

Performance = f(Natural Talent, Sustained Investment)

If I coulda have 22 children (for different mothers) and house them, clothe them, feed them and provide a coach & facilities for 20 years, then I sure Trinidad would win the World Cup.

It have nothing to do with size and probability, it is about taking the raw talent (which we have) and having a sustained & structured investment (which we can do, but don't).

What over simplication! If it were so easy why does everyone not do it?
Why do you have different results?
Why did so many countries with footballing structures not make it?
Why do clubs who have 22 players from different mothers, at every age group from 10 to 20 not produce World Class players consistently?
If you do exactly what you said, their is a probability you could  only end up with one quality player, maybe none.

[Kayus]

the "small population" excuse have to stop dred. yes we are a small nation, but tnt produces a wealth of natural talent that can be compared to some of the top footballing nations in the world IMHO. the problem lies mainly in the nurturing and development of that talent, as well as the footballing culture freakazoid was speaking about. time after time tnt has come close to and even achieved some footballing milestones that would not be expected because of our so called small stature. the painful thing is that when we place ourselves in an excellent position to build on what we accomplished and take it to the next level, we take 10 steps back. and  a crippling paradox is created because of our "you did your best mentality" because it's like we expect to always be in the category of minnows because of excuse a, b, c etc.

now don't get me wrong, i am not saying be in an uproar and lambaste our boys if we lose to the brazils, italys etc. but don't write us off on paper, and be so "proud" of a "respectable" scoreline. that is just breeding the  mediocrity in our nations football that has been around for too long now. Kudos, however must be given to the U20s in this tourney because the truly showed that they were out there to WIN and  not fulfill the schedule. Once the mentality is there the results will follow please the Lord.

[asylumseeker]

Performance = f(Natural Talent, Sustained Investment)

If I coulda have 22 children (for different mothers) and house them, clothe them, feed them and provide a coach & facilities for 20 years, then I sure Trinidad would win the World Cup.

It have nothing to do with size and probability, it is about taking the raw talent (which we have) and having a sustained & structured investment (which we can do, but don't).

What over simplication! If it were so easy why does everyone not do it?
Why do you have different results?
Why did so many countries with footballing structures not make it?
Why do clubs who have 22 players from different mothers, at every age group from 10 to 20 not produce World Class players consistently?
If you do exactly what you said, their is a probability you could  only end up with one quality player, maybe none.

Now, that's a rebuttal ...

[dinho]

Also yuh want to say Hard luck they try their best...and their best wasnt good enough...but really dat wasn't they best...and it is what they put out wasnt good enough.

Everyman on the team can play better or be more effective than what they show out there...we all know what they capable of and they did not deliver when it mattered.

this is where i will have to categorically disagree with you..

because from what i saw i thought them men played their best.

[The_Ice]

...

Palos hit the nail on the head...they were crying cause they knew they could have won...and them fellas will never get nuttin so in life again.

But I proud of them, I glad we step up, I glad we can compete and we have shown the world we not there to make up numbers. Improvements noted and we move from creeping...we in waddling and fall down stage.

reality is harsh. let us hope these fellas have the pride and the intelligence so that the lesson learnt. maybe its a good thing they went out there knowing they could have beaten them and instead lost. better to realise the implications now than never.

[weary1969]

...

Palos hit the nail on the head...they were crying cause they knew they could have won...and them fellas will never get nuttin so in life again.

But I proud of them, I glad we step up, I glad we can compete and we have shown the world we not there to make up numbers. Improvements noted and we move from creeping...we in waddling and fall down stage.

It need pride and intelligence from d TTFF as well
reality is harsh. let us hope these fellas have the pride and the intelligence so that the lesson learnt. maybe its a good thing they went out there knowing they could have beaten them and instead lost. better to realise the implications now than never.

[Bakes]

I watching it this way....we work real hard to reach where we reach.

We did good considering the opposition, atmosphere, level of skill from the players and calibre of opposition.

But we will never anytime soon, get the chance to beat them two side again.

It was an opportunity lost.

We ent fed up learn from our mistakes...why it is a TT side from junior to senior cyar get it right when it matters.

We did so vs Guatemala, Mexico, Bahrain, Sweden and Bermuda...the rest is a setta hard luck horse...better next time.

I kinda on the side with Freakazoid in that we like to validate hard luck and excuses. Instead of overcoming them and getting it right when it matters.

Also yuh want to say Hard luck they try their best...and their best wasnt good enough...but really dat wasn't they best...and it is what they put out wasnt good enough.

Everyman on the team can play better or be more effective than what they show out there...we all know what they capable of and they did not deliver when it mattered.

Palos hit the nail on the head...they were crying cause they knew they could have won...and them fellas will never get nuttin so in life again.

But I proud of them, I glad we step up, I glad we can compete and we have shown the world we not there to make up numbers. Improvements noted and we move from creeping...we in waddling and fall down stage.

Can't disagree with much... but again I think we need to keep things in perspective.  One doesn't just wake up with a professional attitude, and I seriously think that's what's missing.  Particularly with the Italy match, all it takes is a single moment's lapse in concentration that makes the difference between victory and defeat.  Being a professional (not that I know) requires putting in a full 90-minute+ shift... not 89'55 or 89'59.  Yuh can't switch off not for a moment.... that's the type of focus they're running up against and sadly it bringing out their schoolboy qualities.  Thay type of focus only comes with experience and the young professionals being fielded by other countries have already developed that focus and experience on the basis of the frequency and quality of the matches they have had (a reasonable argument could be made for coaching as well).  Hopefully in time these youths will grow into their potential... else is lather, rinse, repeat.

[palos]

the "small population" excuse have to stop dred. yes we are a small nation, but tnt produces a wealth of natural talent that can be compared to some of the top footballing nations in the world IMHO.

I disagree.

[nunu]

I share the view of  dissatisfaction with losing after playing bravely.

your country only hav 1.35 million people man , you will never achieved what
Jamaica did in football . we did better than you at every  level , your best bet is to
defend and hope to win 1 nil . boo ! 

[Touches]

Dinho,

Yuh categorically disagreeing with meh...alright.

So the performance by Hyland...dais the best he could do?, dais the best he ever play or could play?

Come Dinho understand what I getting at.

Hyland much better than that loss ball game he was playing.

Some of them fellas ent bring they "A" game to the field...they show heart and fight yes, but the experienced ones the ones who the others looking to and the ones to make things happen ent deliver.

Big players perform when it matters.

Dinho I happy for the fellas and the team and the effort...but I ent happy at the scoreline, we had a game to draw and another to win. We just ent deliver.

[Pointman]

Freak, ah hear what yuh saying and i understand where it coming from, however i don't believe that the TnT team(s) that take the pitch go out there to simply compete and not get embarassed.On the contrary, I believe that they go out there to win(as was evident vs Italy) we were just unlucky and lacked the necessary experience needed to win at that level. Those young warriors played their hearts out and had Italy worried and on any other day that first goal would have stood but say wha.

Let's see how they perform v Paraguay. With nothing to gain except to save face, let's see if our young warriors will leave it all on the pitch.
.

[Socapro]

I share the view of  dissatisfaction with losing after playing bravely.

your country only hav 1.35 million people man , you will never achieved what
Jamaica did in football . we did better than you at every  level , your best bet is to
defend and hope to win 1 nil . boo ! 

How did Jamaica come into this argument?

We have no care or concern for Jamaica round here!

Maybe you should change your name to ReggaeBoyz_Man cause is like you lost yuh way while surfing for the RB site?!

Try googling Reg-GAY football team and I am sure a million and one links will come up!

No need to thank me for directions!