Columbus Day

[Conquering Lion]

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/DHxw088qQms" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/DHxw088qQms</a>

[Tallman]

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/zU9GYLzONaI" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/zU9GYLzONaI</a>

[Queen Macoomeh]

..an quite a drunk I've read...
I remembering studying all about Columbus in school and how great he was. Amazing how history is (re)written by the conqueror..
Still today, people are 'discovering' lands already inhabited by its people. The word discover is a misnomer or is misapplied, I think.

[capodetutticapi]

i dont know if is senility settin in already but im havin ah problem.with de columbus day holiday in USA them kids in school learnin stuff about him.......to cut ah long story short....i always taught trini was discovered in 1492.....my daughter tellin me 1498,i even google it and it says 1498....to me i learn in school back home was 1492.....not so?

[Socapro]

i dont know if is senility settin in already but im havin ah problem.with de columbus day holiday in USA them kids in school learnin stuff about him.......to cut ah long story short....i always taught trini was discovered in 1492.....my daughter tellin me 1498,i even google it and it says 1498....to me i learn in school back home was 1492.....not so?

Because folks upload stuff to the Internet that doesn't make it officially correct!

Yes it was 1492 that he discovered Trinidad but as Shadow would say Columbus never discovered anything as the Caribs & Arawaks were already living here for 100's of years before he arrived. Columbus lied and the Europeans brainwashed us with their books into believing those lies!

[E-man]

i dont know if is senility settin in already but im havin ah problem.with de columbus day holiday in USA them kids in school learnin stuff about him.......to cut ah long story short....i always taught trini was discovered in 1492.....my daughter tellin me 1498,i even google it and it says 1498....to me i learn in school back home was 1492.....not so?

Because folks upload stuff to the Internet that doesn't make it officially correct!

Yes it was 1492 that he discovered Trinidad but as Shadow would say Columbus never discovered anything as the Caribs & Arawaks were already living here for 100's of years before he arrived. Columbus lied and the Europeans brainwashed us with their books into believing those lies!

He made 4 trips.

1. 1492 'discovered' Bahamas, Cuba, Hispaniola


2. 1493 returned to Cuba and Hispaniola and also hit Jamaica, PR and some leeward islands.


3. 1498 Trinidad


4. 1502 Panama and Central America


Happy indigenous people's day

[Queen Macoomeh]

So was it Vespucci who 'discovered the north America?
...and did Columbus really travel that distance twice in 2 years?

[E-man]

So was it Vespucci who 'discovered the north America?
...and did Columbus really travel that distance twice in 2 years?

Columbus' first trip was from 3 August 1492 to 15 March 1493. He departed on the second trip 24 September 1493.

Amerigo Vespucci explored the South American coast from Guyana southward. He never landed in North America, though the whole "new world" is named after him.

Bjarni Herjólfsson was a Norwegian who is the first known European sight the mainland of the Americas, in 986. But he didn't land since he was in a hurry to get to Greenland and had been blown off course. Lief Ericsson followed up on the report of land there and set off some years later landing as far south as possibly Labrador, Canada.

Juan Ponce de León, who arrived in Florida in 1513, is credited as being the first European to land in what is now the continental United States.

[Socapro]

So was it Vespucci who 'discovered the north America?
...and did Columbus really travel that distance twice in 2 years?

Columbus' first trip was from 3 August 1492 to 15 March 1493. He departed on the second trip 24 September 1493.

Amerigo Vespucci explored the South American coast from Guyana southward. He never landed in North America, though the whole "new world" is named after him.

Bjarni Herjólfsson was a Norwegian who is the first known European sight the mainland of the Americas, in 986. But he didn't land since he was in a hurry to get to Greenland and had been blown off course. Lief Ericsson followed up on the report of land there and set off some years later landing as far south as possibly Labrador, Canada.

Juan Ponce de León, who arrived in Florida in 1513, is credited as being the first European to land in what is now the continental United States.

As Shadow said those discoveries were big white lies as there were indigenous folks there already including the Aztecs whose ancestors had already sailed from Africa to the Americas.

[capodetutticapi]

So was it Vespucci who 'discovered the north America?
...and did Columbus really travel that distance twice in 2 years?

Columbus' first trip was from 3 August 1492 to 15 March 1493. He departed on the second trip 24 September 1493.

Amerigo Vespucci explored the South American coast from Guyana southward. He never landed in North America, though the whole "new world" is named after him.

Bjarni Herjólfsson was a Norwegian who is the first known European sight the mainland of the Americas, in 986. But he didn't land since he was in a hurry to get to Greenland and had been blown off course. Lief Ericsson followed up on the report of land there and set off some years later landing as far south as possibly Labrador, Canada.

Juan Ponce de León, who arrived in Florida in 1513, is credited as being the first European to land in what is now the continental United States.

As Shadow said those discoveries were big white lies as there were indigenous folks there already including the Aztecs whose ancestors had already sailed from Africa to the Americas.

shadow was high,i eh tink de aztecs ancestors came from africa.

[Bitter]

So was it Vespucci who 'discovered the north America?
...and did Columbus really travel that distance twice in 2 years?

Columbus' first trip was from 3 August 1492 to 15 March 1493. He departed on the second trip 24 September 1493.

Amerigo Vespucci explored the South American coast from Guyana southward. He never landed in North America, though the whole "new world" is named after him.

Bjarni Herjólfsson was a Norwegian who is the first known European sight the mainland of the Americas, in 986. But he didn't land since he was in a hurry to get to Greenland and had been blown off course. Lief Ericsson followed up on the report of land there and set off some years later landing as far south as possibly Labrador, Canada.

Juan Ponce de León, who arrived in Florida in 1513, is credited as being the first European to land in what is now the continental United States.

As Shadow said those discoveries were big white lies as there were indigenous folks there already including the Aztecs whose ancestors had already sailed from Africa to the Americas.

You ranting and doh even know that it was 1498?
Check yuh trinpad before you post again.

I think most people accept that Columbus didn't "discover" anything, but nonetheless, none of us would be here today if he didn't jump in a ship and sail west.

[Socapro]

So was it Vespucci who 'discovered the north America?
...and did Columbus really travel that distance twice in 2 years?

Columbus' first trip was from 3 August 1492 to 15 March 1493. He departed on the second trip 24 September 1493.

Amerigo Vespucci explored the South American coast from Guyana southward. He never landed in North America, though the whole "new world" is named after him.

Bjarni Herjólfsson was a Norwegian who is the first known European sight the mainland of the Americas, in 986. But he didn't land since he was in a hurry to get to Greenland and had been blown off course. Lief Ericsson followed up on the report of land there and set off some years later landing as far south as possibly Labrador, Canada.

Juan Ponce de León, who arrived in Florida in 1513, is credited as being the first European to land in what is now the continental United States.

As Shadow said those discoveries were big white lies as there were indigenous folks there already including the Aztecs whose ancestors had already sailed from Africa to the Americas.

shadow was high,i eh tink de aztecs ancestors came from africa.

Shadow didn't say that, I was only elaborating on the point that Shadow made in his song which you can listen to above.

The Carnival band I play music for depicted the theme “Aztecs – The Lost Empire” last year (2008) and in our research of the Aztecs we found out that there were communication links between the Aztecs in America and the African Continent. This also explains the pyramids in the Aztec empire being similar to those in Egypt. My bad, maybe I should have said they had already travelled between America & Africa before Columbus had discovered the new world rather than saying their ancestors were from Africa which is still disputable.

[doc]

So was it Vespucci who 'discovered the north America?
...and did Columbus really travel that distance twice in 2 years?

Columbus' first trip was from 3 August 1492 to 15 March 1493. He departed on the second trip 24 September 1493.

Amerigo Vespucci explored the South American coast from Guyana southward. He never landed in North America, though the whole "new world" is named after him.

Bjarni Herjólfsson was a Norwegian who is the first known European sight the mainland of the Americas, in 986. But he didn't land since he was in a hurry to get to Greenland and had been blown off course. Lief Ericsson followed up on the report of land there and set off some years later landing as far south as possibly Labrador, Canada.

Juan Ponce de León, who arrived in Florida in 1513, is credited as being the first European to land in what is now the continental United States.

As Shadow said those discoveries were big white lies as there were indigenous folks there already including the Aztecs whose ancestors had already sailed from Africa to the Americas.

shadow was high,i eh tink de aztecs ancestors came from africa.

Shadow didn't say that, I was only elaborating on the point that Shadow made in his song which you can listen to above.

The Carnival band I play music for depicted the theme “Aztecs – The Lost Empire” last year (2008) and in our research of the Aztecs we found out that there were communication links between the Aztecs in America and the African Continent. This also explains the pyramids in the Aztec empire being similar to those in Egypt. My bad, maybe I should have said they had already travelled between America & Africa before the Columbus had discovered the new world rather than saying their ancestors were from Africa which is still disputable.

Check out Dr. Ivan Van Sertima's book "They came before Columbus" for another perspective.

[Socapro]

So was it Vespucci who 'discovered the north America?
...and did Columbus really travel that distance twice in 2 years?

Columbus' first trip was from 3 August 1492 to 15 March 1493. He departed on the second trip 24 September 1493.

Amerigo Vespucci explored the South American coast from Guyana southward. He never landed in North America, though the whole "new world" is named after him.

Bjarni Herjólfsson was a Norwegian who is the first known European sight the mainland of the Americas, in 986. But he didn't land since he was in a hurry to get to Greenland and had been blown off course. Lief Ericsson followed up on the report of land there and set off some years later landing as far south as possibly Labrador, Canada.

Juan Ponce de León, who arrived in Florida in 1513, is credited as being the first European to land in what is now the continental United States.

As Shadow said those discoveries were big white lies as there were indigenous folks there already including the Aztecs whose ancestors had already sailed from Africa to the Americas.

You ranting and doh even know that it was 1498?
Check yuh trinpad before you post again.

I think most people accept that Columbus didn't "discover" anything, but nonetheless, none of us would be here today if he didn't jump in a ship and sail west.

Hey Bitter, I am not ranting about anything, was just responding to Queen Macoomeh's query with the date I remembered and was corrected by E-Man.

It is also disputable that none of us would be here in the West now if Columbus didn't sail.

There is evidence that before Columbus got to the new world (as he called it) folks had already sailed from Africa to the Americas but were not bent on conquering new lands like the Europeans and sailed back to Africa peacefully after exchanging goods with indigenous tribes.

We overcame slavery but I don't think I want to thank Columbus for laying the foundations for that barbaric trade.

[Queen Macoomeh]

I always wonder what it is that is hard-wired in us to behave like a virus and destroy what is in our path? We want to own and control things and each other.
Couldn't Isabella have simply said - look those islands are mine - and left the people alone? Why wipe them out?
The European saw the African and decided (after killing off their own people in the heat) that these dark people could be used in a murderous fashion.
And it's not even identifiable as a race issue because the Chinese and Egyptians and Arabs and Persians enslaved and commited genocide too.
it used to take months, years, decades to fight one little war but we've moved at breakneck speed to be able to annihilate in minutes..

We destroy forests and oceans, destroy entire species for sport...
egads...
So....why...whose image were we made in to be able to do these things on such a scale?


*stares at her soapbox*
hmm...made in Taiwan.

[Bitter]

So was it Vespucci who 'discovered the north America?
...and did Columbus really travel that distance twice in 2 years?

Columbus' first trip was from 3 August 1492 to 15 March 1493. He departed on the second trip 24 September 1493.

Amerigo Vespucci explored the South American coast from Guyana southward. He never landed in North America, though the whole "new world" is named after him.

Bjarni Herjólfsson was a Norwegian who is the first known European sight the mainland of the Americas, in 986. But he didn't land since he was in a hurry to get to Greenland and had been blown off course. Lief Ericsson followed up on the report of land there and set off some years later landing as far south as possibly Labrador, Canada.

Juan Ponce de León, who arrived in Florida in 1513, is credited as being the first European to land in what is now the continental United States.

As Shadow said those discoveries were big white lies as there were indigenous folks there already including the Aztecs whose ancestors had already sailed from Africa to the Americas.

You ranting and doh even know that it was 1498?
Check yuh trinpad before you post again.

I think most people accept that Columbus didn't "discover" anything, but nonetheless, none of us would be here today if he didn't jump in a ship and sail west.

Hey Bitter, I am not ranting about anything, was just responding to Queen Macoomeh's query with the date I remembered and was corrected by E-Man.

It is also disputable that none of us would be here in the West now if Columbus didn't sail.

There is evidence that before Columbus got to the new world (as he called it) folks had already sailed from Africa to the Americas but were not bent on conquering new lands like the Europeans and sailed back to Africa peacefully after exchanging goods with indigenous tribes.

We overcame slavery but I don't think I want to thank Columbus for laying the foundations for that barbaric trade.

I just wanted to use Trinpad in a sentence. 

If Columbus never sail, Other people would be here, but not us, not in the world we're in now.
What if the natives had kill all of them when they land? What would the world be like now?

We can't answer that question. History is what it is. So it's a fact. No Columbus, none of us would be here now. Do these ends justify the means?

[Socapro]

So was it Vespucci who 'discovered the north America?
...and did Columbus really travel that distance twice in 2 years?

Columbus' first trip was from 3 August 1492 to 15 March 1493. He departed on the second trip 24 September 1493.

Amerigo Vespucci explored the South American coast from Guyana southward. He never landed in North America, though the whole "new world" is named after him.

Bjarni Herjólfsson was a Norwegian who is the first known European sight the mainland of the Americas, in 986. But he didn't land since he was in a hurry to get to Greenland and had been blown off course. Lief Ericsson followed up on the report of land there and set off some years later landing as far south as possibly Labrador, Canada.

Juan Ponce de León, who arrived in Florida in 1513, is credited as being the first European to land in what is now the continental United States.

As Shadow said those discoveries were big white lies as there were indigenous folks there already including the Aztecs whose ancestors had already sailed from Africa to the Americas.

You ranting and doh even know that it was 1498?
Check yuh trinpad before you post again.

I think most people accept that Columbus didn't "discover" anything, but nonetheless, none of us would be here today if he didn't jump in a ship and sail west.

Hey Bitter, I am not ranting about anything, was just responding to Queen Macoomeh's query with the date I remembered and was corrected by E-Man.

It is also disputable that none of us would be here in the West now if Columbus didn't sail.

There is evidence that before Columbus got to the new world (as he called it) folks had already sailed from Africa to the Americas but were not bent on conquering new lands like the Europeans and sailed back to Africa peacefully after exchanging goods with indigenous tribes.

We overcame slavery but I don't think I want to thank Columbus for laying the foundations for that barbaric trade.

I just wanted to use Trinpad in a sentence. 

If Columbus never sail, Other people would be here, but not us, not in the world we're in now.
What if the natives had kill all of them when they land? What would the world be like now?

We can't answer that question. History is what it is. So it's a fact. No Columbus, none of us would be here now. Do these ends justify the means?

You are still guesstimating in that sentence, we cannot know for sure that none of us as African people would be here right now. As I said there is evidence that Africans had already sailed between Africa and America before Columbus landed. So what if some of us decided that where we were was a big too crowded and decided to settle in America on various journies? President Obama wasn’t born in America as a result of Slavery; his father came to America out of his own curiosity. Would you say that Columbus is responsible for him being born in America too?

[Bitter]

European wealth from the 1500s onward is based in the most part on the subjugation and exploitation of the rest of the planet. Columbus heading to the "new world" is a major link in the chain that brings us to 2009 discussing this over the internet.  Maybe if he didn't sail, it would be someone else and the chain would end where we are today. But probably not. Would africans migrate? probably. Would the Aztec and Mayan empires still be here? Would they have imploded otherwise?

You are guesstimating that a different start would produce the same end we're in now. I'm merely saying that its unlikely. Praise for Columbus, not really. Acknowledgement that if he didn't sail we're probably all living a different life. Yep.

[Socapro]

European wealth from the 1500s onward is based in the most part on the subjugation and exploitation of the rest of the planet. Columbus heading to the "new world" is a major link in the chain that brings us to 2009 discussing this over the internet.  Maybe if he didn't sail, it would be someone else and the chain would end where we are today. But probably not. Would africans migrate? probably. Would the Aztec and Mayan empires still be here? Would they have imploded otherwise?

You are guesstimating that a different start would produce the same end we're in now. I'm merely saying that its unlikely. Praise for Columbus, not really. Acknowledgement that if he didn't sail we're probably all living a different life. Yep.

I never argued that a different start would produce the same end we're in right now, where did you see me argue that? What I argued was that it is not guaranteed that none of us would be here right now contrary to what you are arguing!

Also consider that if Columbus (as the first European) didn't sail and so-called discover the new world some other European would have eventually done the same and laid that claim to fame and things may have still turned out quite similar.

[NYtriniwhiteboy..]

allyuh never learned the little rhyme or wah? 1492 columbus sailed the ocean blue...1498, Columbus sailed through our gate.

[Conquering Lion]

European wealth from the 1500s onward is based in the most part on the subjugation and exploitation of the rest of the planet. Columbus heading to the "new world" is a major link in the chain that brings us to 2009 discussing this over the internet.  Maybe if he didn't sail, it would be someone else and the chain would end where we are today. But probably not. Would africans migrate? probably. Would the Aztec and Mayan empires still be here? Would they have imploded otherwise?

Anytime you go to Liverpool you must check out the slave museum. Since Liverpool was a shipbuilding town, many of the slave ships were built there, and on display in the museum you can also see how many companies profited from the business of slavery...Lloyds of London and many others included.

The book "Capitalism and Slavery" by Eric Williams is a must read, and talks about how slavery was abolished because of economics (not because of bleeding heart abolitionists)