D.C. sniper set to die by lethal injection

[weary1969]

Another reason why I have no sympathy for people who commit murder...especially, especially when the victim is a child. Hang them high OR inject they ass, I don't care!

Ask me why???
http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/11/16/north.carolina.missing.girl/index.html

Girl's body found in North Carolina, police sayBy Gabriel Falcon, CNN
November 16, 2009 2:42 p.m. EST

Shaniya Davis, 5, was reported missing last week. Authorities said they found her body Monday.

(CNN) -- The body of a missing 5-year-old girl has been found in North Carolina, police said Monday.

Theresa Chance, public information officer of the Fayetteville Police Department, confirmed the girl's body was discovered.

A statement from Fayetteville Police Chief Tom Bergamine said positive identification was being sought for the recovered body. In a separate e-mail to CNN, Fayetteville police said the body found was that of the missing girl, Shaniya Davis.

About 200 people had been searching for the child's body after "reliable information" indicated that she might be dead, according to Fayetteville police.

Searchers located the body shortly after 1 p.m. ET, Chance told reporters. People at the scene, including searchers and police officers, were "torn up," she said.

The search focused on land near a roadway because "reliable information received that the body of Shaniya Davis may have been dumped there," a police statement said.

Investigators had been searching for Shaniya for several days.

Police have charged the girl's mother, Antoinette Nicole Davis, with trafficking and other offenses, authorities said. Davis was "prostituting her child," Chance said.

Other charges against the mother include felony child abuse, prostitution and filing a false police report, according to the Fayetteville Police Department.

The mother told police last week that the child vanished from their mobile home in Fayetteville.

Hotel surveillance video taken around the same time Shaniya was reported missing showed the girl with a man identified as Mario Andrette McNeill. He was charged with first-degree kidnapping.

Police said they dropped kidnapping charges against another man, Clarence Coe, who was arrested Thursday in connection with the case.

they need to simplify this death penalty. general population for all. look how dahmer went out - the first prison riot, they handle him one time.

Dat sound like a plan a cheap one at dat.

[truetrini]

Geez.

I was so sure they would have found that little girl alive and well.

I'm curious as to why they dropped charges against Coe when he was the one seen taking the child from the trailer park in his car.

We should avoid rushing to judgment against the mother on that charge of prostituting her child... I'm not sure how they would conclude that when the child didn't live with her and was only visiting.  Only evidence giving rise to that charge would seem to come from would-be "johns"... and at this point everybody is a suspect and as such likely to give up their mother if it means them getting off the hook.

Mr. McNeil has a lot of explaining to do.

Bakes where did you hear that Coe was seen taking the girl?  I think initially he was suspected as someone said they saw him leaving the trailer park, but it may have been Mc Neil..the sick f**ker.

"Mario Andrette McNeill was arrested early Friday morning and charged with 1st Degree Kidnapping of 5 year-old Shaniya Davis.  He is being held on $100,000 bond at the Cumberland County Detention Center in North Carolina.  He is expected to make his first court appearance at 2:30pm Friday.  Shaniya was spotted with McNeill at an area hotel but the pair were gone before police got there.  Police had previously arrested Clarence Coe on 1st Degree Kidnapping charges.  He has now been released from jail and charges have been dropped against him.  Police say that McNeill has confessed to abducting the girl and that Coe was not involved in the abduction.  Shaniya Davis has still not been found. "

[Bakes]

I was following this story since Sunday morning, and I felt they will find this child because I kept saying family disrupt. So I really didn't assume the worst. Today in board meeting I in the back listening to them blah blah and my cell phone buzz. I took a glance at it and first thing to read CNN breaking news "The body of missing 5-year-old Shaniya Davis has been found near Sanford, North Carolina, police say". One anger just took over my  senses that I heard absolutely nothing for a full 4 mins from those talking in front. What can a 5 year old child do to provoke you into killing her? Bakes I haven't reach the stage of saying 'who did it' because I'm sure they still trying to patch some pieces together. i won't be surprised if this child was raped, sodomized and tortured. Eh 5 years old.

As you said, I did read about the mother prostituting her child, but I myself can't see that as a possibility because the child was just visiting.  But with the 2 photos of the man holding the bare feet child entering the elevator, have me second guessing that prostitution angle.

And now another CNN.com headline Oklahoma doctor held in death of son, 9
http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/11/16/oklahoma.child.slaying/index.html

And then people saying life imprisonment? Nah some deaths are justified!! Swing dey ass man!
 

I eh go lie... dis story real f**k mih up

[Bakes]

Bakes where did you hear that Coe was seen taking the girl?  I think initially he was suspected as someone said they saw him leaving the trailer park, but it may have been Mc Neil..the sick f**ker.

"Mario Andrette McNeill was arrested early Friday morning and charged with 1st Degree Kidnapping of 5 year-old Shaniya Davis.  He is being held on $100,000 bond at the Cumberland County Detention Center in North Carolina.  He is expected to make his first court appearance at 2:30pm Friday.  Shaniya was spotted with McNeill at an area hotel but the pair were gone before police got there.  Police had previously arrested Clarence Coe on 1st Degree Kidnapping charges.  He has now been released from jail and charges have been dropped against him.  Police say that McNeill has confessed to abducting the girl and that Coe was not involved in the abduction.  Shaniya Davis has still not been found. "

This NBC report... at around 1:50...

http://www.hulu.com/watch/108895/nbc-today-show-missing-5-year-old-spotted-in-hotel-video

[truetrini]

Cool, apparently then they mistook Mc Neal for Coe.  Not nice guys anyway.

Poor soul, children raped, sold for sex.....damn!

[ribbit]

if the govt can kill, who is we?

==

Teen Confesses To Molesting Sister, Dad Executes Him
Jamar Pinkney Sr. Could Face Life in Prison if Convicted
By EMILY FRIEDMAN


A 15-year-old boy who was killed by his father in an execution style killing spent the last moments of his life pleading, "No, Daddy! No!"

Jamar Pinkney Jr. was shot in the head Monday by his 37-year-old father, Jamar Pinkney Sr., who allegedly made the teen strip his clothes off and kneel in a vacant lot before he was killed by a single bullet.

The boy's mother, Lazette Cherry, told the Detroit Free Press that Pinkney Sr., showed up at her Highland Park, Mich., home after she told him that their son had made a startling confession.

According to Cherry, the 15-year-old had admitted to having "inappropriate contact" with his 3-year-old half sister.

"I called and told his father this isn't something you sweep under the rug," Cherry, who was unable to be reached by ABCNews.com, told the paper.

Pinkney Sr. began by pistol whipping his son in the living room where the teen lived with his mother before taking him outside, despite Cherry's pleas to stop.

The father marched the naked boy into the lot and made him kneel down. As the boy pleaded for his life and his distraught mother looked on, Pinkney Sr. allegedly executed the boy with a shot in the head.

Pinkney Sr. was charged with first degree murder and if convicted, could spend the rest of his life in prison. The judge entered a "not guilty" plea on behalf of Pinkney. He is also charged with three counts of felonious assault and one count of felony firearm.

Video of the arraignment shows a relative of the child being taken out of the court room after screaming "No, no, no," when Pinkney Sr. was led into court.

His lawyer, Corbett O'Meara, called the incident a "devastating tragedy."

"My client is in shock and in mourning, but is hopeful that his family will be able to come out of this in as whole a state as possible," said O'Meara.

O'Meara said that Pinkney Sr., who turned himself into authorities, had no previous criminal history and had worked "for years" as a letter carrier for the United States Post Office.


Boy Killed by Father Was Known as Teddy Bear

"No individual has the right to exact the death penalty on another no matter how reprehensible the behavior," prosecutor Kym Worthy said in a statement. "That is why we have laws."

O'Meara told ABCNews.com that he hopes Worthy will "realize the case is far from straight forward" and requires something "other than the most aggressive" punishment.

And even though Pinkney Sr. had never been diagnosed with mental health problems, O'Meara said that if the allegations of the murder are true, "there must be issues with his mental health."

Meanwhile, the community where the child was raised is mourning the loss of a boy they say was known by friends as "teddy bear."

Volunteers at the high school where Pinkney Jr. was a sophomore said the teen was "always smiling," according to The Detroit News.

The principal at Martin Luther King Jr. High School, Deborah Jenkins, told the paper that Pinkney Jr. was "well-liked" and that the school community has been "shaken badly" by his death.

"He was articulate. He passed his courses with A's, B's and C's. Everyone knew him to be a nice, quiet boy," said Jenkins.

[Bakes]

"No individual..."


Next.

[TriniCana]

Ribbit you have kids? To be exact daughters?

I'll leave this question right here and go in my bed. I'll get up in the morning and whether you answer or not, I'll continue!



*****************
CNN.com

Murder and rape charges will be filed against a North Carolina man in the death of 5-year-old Shaniya Davis, police said Thursday.

http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/11/18/shaniya.davis/index.html

[ribbit]

"No individual..."


Next.

yuh make paralegal with that response.

Ribbit you have kids? To be exact daughters?

I'll leave this question right here and go in my bed. I'll get up in the morning and whether you answer or not, I'll continue!



*****************
CNN.com

Murder and rape charges will be filed against a North Carolina man in the death of 5-year-old Shaniya Davis, police said Thursday.

http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/11/18/shaniya.davis/index.html

no.

[Bakes]

yuh make paralegal with that response.

Dai'z okay de concept over yuh head doh worry about it... keep putting yuh high school diploma to good use helping out de teacher in de classroom.

[TriniCana]

Morning Ribbit,

Okay 'no', neither to I. But I have 2 god daughters and 1 god son. Although none came from me, they are still mine to protect and love. I didn't come out from under a rock yesterday, I'm fully aware of how the world is turning and what nastiness goes on. You can't trust anyone with your children.

Call me overly protective....that's okay! But I'm not going to come home from work one afternoon, hear one of them screaming and crying her lungs out, only to find some man whether be boyfriend or stranger on top of her and me saying "aye stop that!" and dial 911.  Some deaths are justified!  I will deal with the consequences after, but at least I know the child is still with me.....emotionally battered, but still with me.

I really don't give ah flying fack if you have some chemical in balance or you mentally challenged, they are mine to protect.

I didn't googled or took any thoughts from a book I read....this is me and it's quite simple.
Up to now no one have put forward anything to me to convince me that I shouldn't rally for capital punishment.

Let them swing or in modern times, inject dey arse!!

[kounty]

I have 3 daughters, and no, is not right to take another man's life...especially a teen.  although sometimes yuh does get real vex and frustrated.

[pecan]

Morning Ribbit,

Okay 'no', neither to I. But I have 2 god daughters and 1 god son. Although none came from me, they are still mine to protect and love. I didn't come out from under a rock yesterday, I'm fully aware of how the world is turning and what nastiness goes on. You can't trust anyone with your children.

Call me overly protective....that's okay! But I'm not going to come home from work one afternoon, hear one of them screaming and crying her lungs out, only to find some man whether be boyfriend or stranger on top of her and me saying "aye stop that!" and dial 911.  Some deaths are justified!  I will deal with the consequences after, but at least I know the child is still with me.....emotionally battered, but still with me.

I really don't give ah flying fack if you have some chemical in balance or you mentally challenged, they are mine to protect.

I didn't googled or took any thoughts from a book I read....this is me and it's quite simple.
Up to now no one have put forward anything to me to convince me that I shouldn't rally for capital punishment.

Let them swing or in modern times, inject dey arse!!

Cana your scenario describes taking action when a split second decision has to be made.

But capital punishment is a measured response. The fact that some states / countries have the death penalty and other don't suggests that there is a major divide on this issue.

It is not a clear cut course of action as some would suggest.  All depends on your point of view.

[TriniCana]

Yes it's definitely my point of view.....still is!
What is the difference between a spilt decision and when caught after the fact? The fact reminds is you committed a crime that led to someone's death. Worst yet for a repeat offender. And you still alive? NAH!! I'm no judge but am sure  part of a jury.

Whether be spilt decision or a 4 year trial in court, my stand is, you going to your maker for a crime you committed. Take for example that guy from Cleveland. He was in jail for many years for rape and whatever. He was released and to this day they still looking for bodies at his house - AFTER his release crimes. The count reached 11 women. He shows no remorse for his crimes committed. If it wasn't for one of the raped victims reporting his ass, he would have still be killing women out there today and family members still out there searching for their loved ones.  What's the plan with him now? Send him back to jail for life and feed him? Seek therapy?  steupse!!

If I have to be part of weeding out the evils of this world, so be it! When it's my turn to meet my maker, we'll have a debate. You earthlings not convincing me at all.





***********************************
Kounty my post is a general post, and not in response to any story in here. I also get vex and frustrated when the line for gas long and I'm late for a meeting because of traffic. That anger goes way beyond....

[ribbit]

yuh make paralegal with that response.

Dai'z okay de concept over yuh head doh worry about it... keep putting yuh high school diploma to good use helping out de teacher in de classroom.

bait n' switch, is you, RF and troy marquis for forum troll of de year.

Morning Ribbit,

Okay 'no', neither to I. But I have 2 god daughters and 1 god son. Although none came from me, they are still mine to protect and love. I didn't come out from under a rock yesterday, I'm fully aware of how the world is turning and what nastiness goes on. You can't trust anyone with your children.

Call me overly protective....that's okay! But I'm not going to come home from work one afternoon, hear one of them screaming and crying her lungs out, only to find some man whether be boyfriend or stranger on top of her and me saying "aye stop that!" and dial 911.  Some deaths are justified!  I will deal with the consequences after, but at least I know the child is still with me.....emotionally battered, but still with me.

I really don't give ah flying fack if you have some chemical in balance or you mentally challenged, they are mine to protect.

I didn't googled or took any thoughts from a book I read....this is me and it's quite simple.
Up to now no one have put forward anything to me to convince me that I shouldn't rally for capital punishment.

Let them swing or in modern times, inject dey arse!!

Yes it's definitely my point of view.....still is!
What is the difference between a spilt decision and when caught after the fact? The fact reminds is you committed a crime that led to someone's death. Worst yet for a repeat offender. And you still alive? NAH!! I'm no judge but am sure  part of a jury.

Whether be spilt decision or a 4 year trial in court, my stand is, you going to your maker for a crime you committed. Take for example that guy from Cleveland. He was in jail for many years for rape and whatever. He was released and to this day they still looking for bodies at his house - AFTER his release crimes. The count reached 11 women. He shows no remorse for his crimes committed. If it wasn't for one of the raped victims reporting his ass, he would have still be killing women out there today and family members still out there searching for their loved ones.  What's the plan with him now? Send him back to jail for life and feed him? Seek therapy?  steupse!!

If I have to be part of weeding out the evils of this world, so be it! When it's my turn to meet my maker, we'll have a debate. You earthlings not convincing me at all.





***********************************
Kounty my post is a general post, and not in response to any story in here. I also get vex and frustrated when the line for gas long and I'm late for a meeting because of traffic. That anger goes way beyond....

rookmin, me eh know whether that was the right decision or not; me eh presume to adjudicate that. however, it is this man's responsibility MORE then anyone else who only now come to run dey mouth like this lawyer do in the article.

[Bakes]

bait n' switch, is you, RF and troy marquis for forum troll of de year.

Assuming your are correct... emphasis on de ASS part, who fault it is that yuh keep eating de chain up den?  If yuh cyah run in de race den just siddung on de side and suck yuh snow cone and keep yuh ass quiet.

[pecan]

ah asking a serious question


1) What good comes out of exacting the death penalty other than a sense of revenge/satisfaction and perhaps saving some money?


Possible answers

1) Deterrent? if so, then Texas would have a 0 homicide rate
2) Closure? not sure about that because killing the killer does not bring back the victims.  Only time may heal and that is still not a guarantee
3) Guarantee that the killer is not released to kill again? could be, but if the criminal system was efficient, those killers would never be released to kill again
4) weeding out evil?  then the system better impose the death penalty for a wider array of evil crimes which extend beyond homicide.


for the record, i believe that rehabilitation is a crock.  I would rather they stay in jail forever and repay their debt by working for society for the rest of their lives.

[pecan]

Yes it's definitely my point of view.....still is!
What is the difference between a spilt decision and when caught after the fact?

None - i was implying that you made the decision to execute or kill a person in a split sec  because you were attempting to save your chile.  Whereas when the state makes a decision after the fact, they are making a conscious decision to kill a person.  A crime of passion may have extenuating circumstances.  But then again, one may argue that the death penalty is a legalized crime of passion because I do not understand what good comes out of executing a person.

here is a thought .. may be the death penalty decision should be made by the victim's family?

The fact reminds is you committed a crime that led to someone's death. Worst yet for a repeat offender. And you still alive? NAH!! I'm no judge but am sure  part of a jury.

Whether be spilt decision or a 4 year trial in court, my stand is, you going to your maker for a crime you committed. Take for example that guy from Cleveland. He was in jail for many years for rape and whatever. He was released and to this day they still looking for bodies at his house - AFTER his release crimes. The count reached 11 women. He shows no remorse for his crimes committed. If it wasn't for one of the raped victims reporting his ass, he would have still be killing women out there today and family members still out there searching for their loved ones.  What's the plan with him now? Send him back to jail for life and feed him? Seek therapy?  steupse!!

and what happens if you are not guilty (as has happened so many times) before when an innocent person is found guilty and subsequently executed. 

If I have to be part of weeding out the evils of this world, so be it! When it's my turn to meet my maker, we'll have a debate. You earthlings not convincing me at all.

I can't really argue with your point of view.  That is a strong personal decision that each person will have to make if push comes to shove.

[Queen Macoomeh]

ah asking a serious question


1) What good comes out of exacting the death penalty other than a sense of revenge/satisfaction and perhaps saving some money?


Possible answers

1) Deterrent? if so, then Texas would have a 0 homicide rate
2) Closure? not sure about that because killing the killer does not bring back the victims.  Only time may heal and that is still not a guarantee
3) Guarantee that the killer is not released to kill again? could be, but if the criminal system was efficient, those killers would never be released to kill again
4) weeding out evil?  then the system better impose the death penalty for a wider array of evil crimes which extend beyond homicide.


for the record, i believe that rehabilitation is a crock.  I would rather they stay in jail forever and repay their debt by working for society for the rest of their lives.

The system is not efficient.

You don't mind paying to clothe, house, feed, educate them for the rest of their lives, in a manner above many others who have never harmed society?

[pecan]

ah asking a serious question


1) What good comes out of exacting the death penalty other than a sense of revenge/satisfaction and perhaps saving some money?


Possible answers

1) Deterrent? if so, then Texas would have a 0 homicide rate
2) Closure? not sure about that because killing the killer does not bring back the victims.  Only time may heal and that is still not a guarantee
3) Guarantee that the killer is not released to kill again? could be, but if the criminal system was efficient, those killers would never be released to kill again
4) weeding out evil?  then the system better impose the death penalty for a wider array of evil crimes which extend beyond homicide.


for the record, i believe that rehabilitation is a crock.  I would rather they stay in jail forever and repay their debt by working for society for the rest of their lives.

The system is not efficient.

You don't mind paying to clothe, house, feed, educate them for the rest of their lives, in a manner above many others who have never harmed society?

so instead of fixing the system, we will execute as a temporary measure? instead of dealing with the root cause?

No, I don't mind paying for incarceration . .that is the price of a civilized society.  Plus the price of death row has got to exceed the cost of full time incarceration ( i dont have any stats on that comment - just my gut feeling) . Plus, make them repay their debt by working them so that the net cost is zero.



As long as we executing, our society is not as civilized as we would like to think.

In my definition, a civilized society does not kill. The human race have a long way to go.

[Queen Macoomeh]

Not sure how one can deal with a root cause that has thus far eluded us.
What causes a human being to kill another.
What causes an adult to strangle and rape a baby. And how might we stop him/her from doing so.
They gave women a bligh called PMS but so far men have no such escape clause.
I don't know.

I can't argue the gut feeling on the cost. I have no idea either, not even a gut feeling.

"In my definition, a civilized society does not kill. The human race have a long way to go."
Sounds like the cart is in front of the horse. The person killed and society reacted by killing him/her.
It is one of the recourses we have. Kill them, incarcerate them. Poor choices for this civilized society among whom murderers live.

I do not know what I would do were I faced with this choice. My grief may cause me to want revenge, it may lead me to prayer, it may lead me to madness. I don't know. But I have to put that grief some place. When I bang my shin on the couch, I am vexed with the couch.
I admit that freely. I can only ask and wonder and guess.
In my definition, a civilized soceity would not have this question.

[ribbit]

As long as we executing, our society is not as civilized as we would like to think.

In my definition, a civilized society does not kill. The human race have a long way to go.

is this equivalent to the notion that there's some intrinsic value to a human life? mho, is that value have to be earned not gifted by society. in the modern day terms, people talking alot about what "rights" they have but no mention of why they have these rights. this presumption didn't used to exist and it is subject to abuse/advantage.

[Bakes]

ah asking a serious question


1) What good comes out of exacting the death penalty other than a sense of revenge/satisfaction and perhaps saving some money?


Possible answers

1) Deterrent? if so, then Texas would have a 0 homicide rate

This is a fallacy.  Using your rationale imprisonment serves no deterrent either, since there isn't a single country with 0 crime rate.  Why waste time locking them up, right?

2) Closure? not sure about that because killing the killer does not bring back the victims.  Only time may heal and that is still not a guarantee

Having a body to bury doesn't bring the victim back either... but try telling the families that the 'closure' argument doesn't make any sense and see what they say.

3) Guarantee that the killer is not released to kill again? could be, but if the criminal system was efficient, those killers would never be released to kill again

So mandatory life for all death-eligible criminals instead... on the taxpayers dime to boot.  Why?  seeing that this too is likely to totally eradicate crime?  But your rationale again, killing them will serve the same purpose.

4) weeding out evil?  then the system better impose the death penalty for a wider array of evil crimes which extend beyond homicide.

"evil" is a moral construct, not a criminal one and as such no amount of mortal punishment will serve towards eradicating evil en toto.  So that argument is a non-starter.


for the record, i believe that rehabilitation is a crock.  I would rather they stay in jail forever and repay their debt by working for society for the rest of their lives.

Working for society doing what... making license plates and otherwise benefitting the prison industry?  How is that 'working for society'?  Life imprisonment is no more a rational solution than the death penalty.  In the end it comes down to your own personal leaning.

[verycute1]

Yes it's definitely my point of view.....still is!
What is the difference between a spilt decision and when caught after the fact? The fact reminds is you committed a crime that led to someone's death. Worst yet for a repeat offender. And you still alive? NAH!! I'm no judge but am sure  part of a jury.

Whether be spilt decision or a 4 year trial in court, my stand is, you going to your maker for a crime you committed. Take for example that guy from Cleveland. He was in jail for many years for rape and whatever. He was released and to this day they still looking for bodies at his house - AFTER his release crimes. The count reached 11 women. He shows no remorse for his crimes committed. If it wasn't for one of the raped victims reporting his ass, he would have still be killing women out there today and family members still out there searching for their loved ones.  What's the plan with him now? Send him back to jail for life and feed him? Seek therapy?  steupse!!

If I have to be part of weeding out the evils of this world, so be it! When it's my turn to meet my maker, we'll have a debate. You earthlings not convincing me at all.





***********************************
Kounty my post is a general post, and not in response to any story in here. I also get vex and frustrated when the line for gas long and I'm late for a meeting because of traffic. That anger goes way beyond....

Amen, amen, preach on. I have a daughter. Four years old. And so help me if anyone even look at her the wrong way he will deal with me. And if god forbid...... anything like that ever happened, put the damn rope in my hand, I go handle them myself. Rape, assault, whatever you want to call it is bad. But ( and this is my opinion) when you attack a child, or an elderly woman, the crime is intensified. You attack me, at least I have a fighting change to save myself. You go after a 5 year old. Aint right.

Queen, you say you dont know what you would do in a situation like that, I already know. There are some things that are unforgivable. Some things that dont make sense. Some things that dont even need a judge and jury and a prison sentence.

[Bakes]

so instead of fixing the system, we will execute as a temporary measure? instead of dealing with the root cause?

What is the 'root cause'... and how are we NOT dealing with it?

No, I don't mind paying for incarceration . .that is the price of a civilized society.  Plus the price of death row has got to exceed the cost of full time incarceration ( i dont have any stats on that comment - just my gut feeling) . Plus, make them repay their debt by working them so that the net cost is zero.

As long as we executing, our society is not as civilized as we would like to think.
In my definition, a civilized society does not kill. The human race have a long way to go.

Based on who's definition?  These are very conclusory statements based on nothing but emotion.  Sometimes it becomes necessary to kill, which is why there is such a thing as a justifiable homicide.  Adopting your absolutist position waging war or killing to save a life is 'uncivilized'... after all, these are all state-sanctioned forms of killing.

In my view there are certain criminals who simply don't deserve to live... men like Dole Chadee being among them... and a nameless many here in the US.  A year ago, two years ago I was one like you arguing against the death penalty, but the truth is that the public-at-large is buffeted from some of the heinous crimes that take place in relative obscurity.  One case that will forever stay with me is the murder of a housewife in Georgia several years ago that went largely unnoticed by the media.  The killers broke into this older couple's house, shot the husband and left him for dead.  They robbed them, stole their car and kidnapped the 50-something wife.  They then beat and repeatedly raped her before wrapping her head-to-toe in duct tape and forcing her off a bridge and into an icy river below.

To me the only rational argument against their execution was the fact that they were juveniles... and as much as I am against executing juveniles even this case was enough to try my resolve.

As for your gut feeling... it is indeed more expensive to execute than to incarcerate for life, but that's only on account of the costs involved in the appellate process in most cases.  Other than that in financial terms it's not at all expensive to throw the switch or administer the drugs.

[TriniCana]

ah asking a serious question


1) What good comes out of exacting the death penalty other than a sense of revenge/satisfaction and perhaps saving some money?


Possible answers

1) Deterrent? if so, then Texas would have a 0 homicide rate
2) Closure? not sure about that because killing the killer does not bring back the victims.  Only time may heal and that is still not a guarantee
3) Guarantee that the killer is not released to kill again? could be, but if the criminal system was efficient, those killers would never be released to kill again
4) weeding out evil?  then the system better impose the death penalty for a wider array of evil crimes which extend beyond homicide.


for the record, i believe that rehabilitation is a crock.  I would rather they stay in jail forever and repay their debt by working for society for the rest of their lives.

What good comes out of exacting the death penalty other than a sense of revenge/satisfaction and perhaps saving some money?

pecan I really didn't read your 'possible answers', but mine is quite straight forward.

answer: my piece of mind that this son of ah bitch not alive to hurt another.

I going personal now. I said this before in this very forum. I was on the jury for the Sa Gomes and Scott murder trial (#9) I sat in that chair for a month and 2 days. I watched the families of the 2 murdered women. I watched the maid who was beaten, raped and sodomized.  I watch Chuck Attin mother every single day just sitting there in a daze. I watched the face expressions of the Mohammed fella.  I listened to the graphic evidence what these fellas did to the maid before going on the killing spree. I held the blood stained knife/cutlass, the blood stained underwear, pieces of tape, pictures of their nude bodies, pictures of the blood stained walls/ground/carpet.  It only took us about 12 mins to come back with a verdict. Mohammed was sentence to death and Attin being a minor at the time got life. My civic duty was to sit there, listen and decide. That was ALL those 2 was getting from me. It took a mental and physical toil on me. I felt sick....lost weight and was in a mild depression. I was angry for a long time. Not because of the crime, but because the children had to grow up without their mothers. Young mothers. Who's to say they didn't do crime prior to that case? Or if wasn't caught what more gruesome acts they would be performing.

So pecan I have justification for what I believe in and why I know what I'd do whether for self defense, protection or to protect someone else.  Because I know and I see what humans can do...just because they can!! 

pecan we will agree to disagree....I'm fine with that. You continue to nourish them for me to hang after. :beermug

[pecan]

ah asking a serious question


1) What good comes out of exacting the death penalty other than a sense of revenge/satisfaction and perhaps saving some money?


Possible answers

1) Deterrent? if so, then Texas would have a 0 homicide rate

This is a fallacy.  Using your rationale imprisonment serves no deterrent either, since there isn't a single country with 0 crime rate.  Why waste time locking them up, right?

2) Closure? not sure about that because killing the killer does not bring back the victims.  Only time may heal and that is still not a guarantee

Having a body to bury doesn't bring the victim back either... but try telling the families that the 'closure' argument doesn't make any sense and see what they say.

3) Guarantee that the killer is not released to kill again? could be, but if the criminal system was efficient, those killers would never be released to kill again

So mandatory life for all death-eligible criminals instead... on the taxpayers dime to boot.  Why?  seeing that this too is likely to totally eradicate crime?  But your rationale again, killing them will serve the same purpose.

4) weeding out evil?  then the system better impose the death penalty for a wider array of evil crimes which extend beyond homicide.

"evil" is a moral construct, not a criminal one and as such no amount of mortal punishment will serve towards eradicating evil en toto.  So that argument is a non-starter.


for the record, i believe that rehabilitation is a crock.  I would rather they stay in jail forever and repay their debt by working for society for the rest of their lives.

Working for society doing what... making license plates and otherwise benefitting the prison industry?  How is that 'working for society'?  Life imprisonment is no more a rational solution than the death penalty.  In the end it comes down to your own personal leaning.

I posted those possible answers to reflect what I though proponents of the death penalty may have answered in response to my question of what good comes out of the death penalty.

The only thing that the death penalty serves is to guarantee that the killer does not kill again.  But I think that life imprisonment does the same thing, .. yes, on the tax payers dime. 

I have to admit, much of my belief has to do with emotion.  I don't support the notion of legalized murder (which is what I think the death penalty is),

Your comment Having a body to bury doesn't bring the victim back either... but try telling the families that the 'closure' argument doesn't make any sense and see what they say.

I have tried telling that to the family ... my wife, her uncle and the rest of her family. And I know what they say.  Mrs Pecan 1st cousins, 16 and 18 year old girls were brutally slashed and stabbed to death.  So I know first hand what the families went through.  I personally helped with aspects of the funeral. I personally saw how it devastated the family.  Yet NOT ONCE did any of the immediate family ever advocate for the death penalty.  The two murderers were caught, tried, found guilty and sentenced to what the Cdn justice system calls life imprisonment.

So I am speaking somewhat first hand as a member of the victim's family.  The girls' murders did not change my view of the death penalty. Rather it re-enforced my wife's and my current views that if we kill those killers, we become them. Obviously that is an emotional view, but no different than the emotions that drive others to rally for the death penalty.

[pecan]

pecan I really didn't read your 'possible answers', but mine is quite straight forward.

answer: my piece of mind that this son of ah bitch not alive to hurt another.

So pecan I have justification for what I believe in and why I know what I'd do whether for self defense, protection or to protect someone else.  Because I know and I see what humans can do...just because they can!! 

pecan we will agree to disagree....I'm fine with that. You continue to nourish them for me to hang after.

At least we agree that they should be removed from society at large.  Forever.

cant argue with the statement that they will not kill again.

Interesting though how your experience with a brutal murder has resulted with your views and how my experience has resulted with an opposing view.  Not as clear cut as we would like it to be. 

[pecan]

Based on who's definition?  These are very conclusory statements based on nothing but emotion.

I agree - as I said, that was my definition. I I have no expectation that other will agree with it

 Sometimes it becomes necessary to kill, which is why there is such a thing as a justifiable homicide.  Adopting your absolutist position waging war or killing to save a life is 'uncivilized'... after all, these are all state-sanctioned forms of killing.

Yes, I maintain that war is state sanctioned killing but  I still don't agree with the notion of war.  At this stage in human societal development, was is a natural by-product and a necessity at times.  Hopefully there will come a time when we dont need it.  Altruistic - absolutely. 

In my view there are certain criminals who simply don't deserve to live...

To me the only rational argument against their execution was the fact that they were juveniles... and as much as I am against executing juveniles even this case was enough to try my resolve.

Curious point? why should juveniles be treated differently than adults fore heinous crimes?  it should not make a difference if you support the death penalty in general.

[verycute1]

ah asking a serious question


1) What good comes out of exacting the death penalty other than a sense of revenge/satisfaction and perhaps saving some money?


Possible answers

1) Deterrent? if so, then Texas would have a 0 homicide rate
2) Closure? not sure about that because killing the killer does not bring back the victims.  Only time may heal and that is still not a guarantee
3) Guarantee that the killer is not released to kill again? could be, but if the criminal system was efficient, those killers would never be released to kill again
4) weeding out evil?  then the system better impose the death penalty for a wider array of evil crimes which extend beyond homicide.


for the record, i believe that rehabilitation is a crock.  I would rather they stay in jail forever and repay their debt by working for society for the rest of their lives.

What good comes out of exacting the death penalty other than a sense of revenge/satisfaction and perhaps saving some money?

pecan I really didn't read your 'possible answers', but mine is quite straight forward.

answer: my piece of mind that this son of ah bitch not alive to hurt another.

I going personal now. I said this before in this very forum. I was on the jury for the Sa Gomes and Scott murder trial (#9) I sat in that chair for a month and 2 days. I watched the families of the 2 murdered women. I watched the maid who was beaten, raped and sodomized.  I watch Chuck Attin mother every single day just sitting there in a daze. I watched the face expressions of the Mohammed fella.  I listened to the graphic evidence what these fellas did to the maid before going on the killing spree. I held the blood stained knife/cutlass, the blood stained underwear, pieces of tape, pictures of their nude bodies, pictures of the blood stained walls/ground/carpet.  It only took us about 12 mins to come back with a verdict. Mohammed was sentence to death and Attin being a minor at the time got life. My civic duty was to sit there, listen and decide. That was ALL those 2 was getting from me. It took a mental and physical toil on me. I felt sick....lost weight and was in a mild depression. I was angry for a long time. Not because of the crime, but because the children had to grow up without their mothers. Young mothers. Who's to say they didn't do crime prior to that case? Or if wasn't caught what more gruesome acts they would be performing.

So pecan I have justification for what I believe in and why I know what I'd do whether for self defense, protection or to protect someone else.  Because I know and I see what humans can do...just because they can!! 

pecan we will agree to disagree....I'm fine with that. You continue to nourish them for me to hang after. :beermug

Girl, I remember that like it was yesterday. Shivers up and down my spine.