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Author Topic: Fort Hood Shooting - TEXAS  (Read 14483 times)

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Offline Bakes

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Re: Fort Hood Shooting - TEXAS
« Reply #60 on: November 09, 2009, 10:31:39 AM »
That is not a fair argument. Weary was referring to this type of event and not attributing the 2nd ammendment as The Cause of all gun violence in teh US.

Have you been following the discussion?I have to ask because there's no way you could have read her initial statements and say that she wasn't attributing workplace violence to the 2nd Amendment right to bear arms.

Well Texas is d wild wild west so d showin it. D want d right 2 bear arms so bear this is d effect.

D culture of wild wild west is dat whether d shootin happen on an army base is insignificant. So it may have been easier 2 get d gun in dis instance. D fact is dat compare to other developed countries especially their colleagues in Europe where dey eh have d right to bare arms d number of these instances are far less. I am sure you would have read about it in your extensive readings.

The quotes are there plain as day for all to read... there is a clear link being made between workplace shootings like these and "the right to bear arms".  If you have some alternate interpretation as to the meaning inherent in the bolded statements then I'm more than willing to hear it.

The "causes" for high rate of gun violence will be multiple and can (and most likely will) be different for each country. Clearly a lot of US gun violence is crime related and committed using illegal weapons. However the rate of crime and lawlessness in these “embattled” countries like Jamaica, Colombia, Trinidad and Brazil is a lot higher than in the US.  So the question would be why is the US even in the same neighbourhood with those countries in terms of numbers.

The U.S. has over 300 million people... Colombia 45 million.  In fact of the countries you mentioned only Brazil remotely comes close with just under 200 million inhabitants...it's understandable why the incidence of gun violence in the US will be disproportionately high.  As a matter of fact, if you discount the numbers living in the Amazon and other sparsely populated areas where presumably people aren't shooting each other as much, the true incidence of gun violence in these countries would dwarf anything seen in the US.

More to the point though, comparing total gun-related murders conceals the phenomenon surrounding this particular type of crime where a disturbed, heretofore, non-criminal individual legally purchases semi-automatic weapons, weapons whose only purpose is to be as deadly as possible. It is reasonable to suggest that those types of killings can be curtailed by better gun control.


Really how? Particularly in light of the fact that the individual has no prior history of criminality?  In 1976 Washington DC instituted a virtual ban on handgun ownership.  Between 1976 and 1991 DC's murder rate rose 200% while the US in general experienced a 12% increase.  I don't have the figures readily at hand, but I can guarantee you that the vast number of these murders involved handgun.  Want to make the argument that better gun control would prevent handgun violence again?  The percentage of homes with guns in the US is roughly 49%.  In Finland it's 50%... why is it that the Finns have more lax gun control (legally-owned weapons more widely available) yet they don't come nearly as close to the US in the incidence of gun violence?  Is the problem really "better gun control"?

I am all in favor of gun control, having never owned a gun and having little desire to do so.  It is entirely reasonable to ask if better gun control would have made a difference in cases such as these.  It is plain silly however to simplistically attribute crimes such as these to the Constitutional right to bear arms, or to blame them on insufficient gun control.  Gun control legislation only affects the availability of legal guns.  An individual like this who is hell-bent on mayhem likely isn't goint to be hindered by some gun law... if he's intent on killing he'll find some way legal or illegal to get a gun.  Focusing the debate on gun control ignores the larger reality that the problem lies with the individual and not with gun laws.


To question the effect of gun control on US gun violence a better comparison for the US would be similarly developed, affluent countries like Canada and other G7 nations that do have stronger gun control. Even accounting for economic differences and general crime statistics the comparison is stark from the numbers you posted below. The US is 3 times the rate of Canada and France, 7 times that of Italy and more than ten times that of Germany.

To begin with you simply cannot separate the overall incidence of crime from any discussion of gun violence.  For a number of reasons the US has a higher rate of criminality, much of which is tied to the drug trade.  Much of the world's production of narcotics come from South America, with a smaller trade coming from Asian countries such as Afghanistan and the former Soviet Republics.  A disproportionate amount of the global narcotic output ends up in the US, simply because it's easier to get the drugs from SA to North American markets than it is to send it to Europe.  Demand analysis aside, the supply to Canada would also be affected by the fact that market in the US is so lucrative.... consequently there is more narcotics here in the US than probably anywhere else outside of South America.  The correlation between gun violence and the incidence of illegal drugs is one any urban child could make... and is routinely noted by criminologists here in the US.  Withouth going into it much further, drug-related crime is the prime reason why the US has a disproportionate inciddence of gun-related violence.

However you guys want to parse it weary was not too far off. Her statement was about the gun culture in the US facilitating these types of tragedies and that the cost of life has to be borne by the society that “loves their guns”. Such a society cannot have it both ways. Just as the parent whose child discharges a family weapon, accidentally or on purpose, has to bear responsibility. In this instance this was a weapon obtained as a civilian.

It is shocking to me that someone who has lived here (presumably) as long as you have, and seemingly as intelligent as you are would endorse statements as unintelligent as these.  The sheer volume and polarizing nature of the debate over gun-control would seemingly nullify any talk about this being a gun-loving society. For all her claims about being familiar with the US Constitution, as specious a claim as that might be, it is clear that Weary fails to appreciate the context within which the 2nd Amendment came about, and why it hasn't yet been repealed.  This is a society that was borne of distrust of government.  One tool used by the British rulers was to prevent colonial residents from owning arms... making it that much easier to control a restive population.  Therefore written into the Constitution was a prohibition against government establishing an absolute ban on gun-ownership.  It had nothing to do with "loving guns" then... it has nothing to do with "loving guns" now. 

The true "gun-loving" population is fairly small.  A larger percent of opponents to gun-control simply don't want government to interfere with their right to own a gun, should they so desire to own a gun.  It's an irrational stance no different from that of many opponents to the current proposed healthcare overhaul... they don't want government involvement in what they see as their private affairs... it's not that they "love" not having health insurance. And then separate from these nut-jobs, is a number of people who favor gun ownership because they see it as a necessity in a society riddled by crime.  The long and the short of it being that the gun debate is hardly as black and white as the two of you are trying to make it.  It's not about people "loving their guns".  This is important because it is the "gun-loving culture" (mentality) that is being implicated here, when in fact such 'culture' or mentality is hardly pervasive.  Such a simplistic attribution if often made by people who don't live here and who still see American society as being homogenous, when in fact there is no ONE American society, and no ONE American culture.  It varies by region among other things.


There will be disturbed people everywhere but these cases will always be more prevalent and more costly when there is easy access to weapons that do the most damage in the least amount of time. I would think that with the litany of similar incidents people would not be questioning the role of legalizing and promoting these weapons in these events.

On a sidenote it would be interesting to know whether this weapon could have been as easily obtained in MD/VA.


You do realize that this man used handguns and not assault rifles... right?  I have to confess that even I find this surprising, because I couldn't fathom someone shooting up a military base with handguns.  In my mind there will be other armed soldiers nearby who would be able to take out the shooter before he could shoot as many people as this man did.  The assumption was that this had to be some quick strike act. It was only later that I came to realize how this became possible, since as the Colonel said... that is their home, they don't walk around there strapped.

As for the last question, I don't know how the laws relate to Texas, but MD and VA likely only require a photo ID, clean criminal history and a three-day wait... as is the case in most states.

Offline Bakes

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Re: Fort Hood Shooting - TEXAS
« Reply #61 on: November 09, 2009, 10:36:25 AM »
Thanks much, I knew you would come through with the info  ;D


SO essentially, while the US had ( in 94 anyway) the highest total gun related deaths, there weren't as many murders as there were suicides. And If I'm not mistaken, suicide by firearms is the no 1. method in the us even to this day isnt it?

Yeah I saw a stat somewhere where suicide by gun is by far the preferred method.  Incidentally... as this chart shows http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-related_death_rate

Of all gun-related deaths in the US over 70% are suicides, with homicide constituting just under a third.... in other words, when people kill, they are more than twice as likely to use a gun on themselves than to kill someone else.
« Last Edit: November 09, 2009, 10:50:12 AM by Bake n Shark »

truetrini

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Re: Fort Hood Shooting - TEXAS
« Reply #62 on: November 09, 2009, 10:52:37 AM »
All Large military and even semi large military bases have civilian police ..simply called base police. 

Offline weary1969

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Re: Fort Hood Shooting - TEXAS
« Reply #63 on: November 09, 2009, 11:26:49 AM »
When dis become an issue of legal and illegal guns. D issue is y yankees luv 2 go postal. We neva was talkin bout gun violence every country have an issue wit gun violence. But the good ole USA is the place where a man loose he wuk and 2 yrs later go shoot up d place stop changing the goal post. D gun use in Fort Hood as legal as dey come. But would a Canadian muslim in d same situation do the same ting. U are d intellectual what is d answer.



Wait... is NOT YOU who start with de 2nd Amendment talk???  The Second Amendment refers to the right to legally own guns.  YOU attributed this shooting to the Second Amendment right... your very first comment in factessentially said Americans love they right to bear arms to this is the result.   Now you saying is about "y yankees luv 2 go postal"... and yet you have the cheek to talk about me changing goalpost?  Look yuh even bringing "Canadian muslim" into the talk as if the man religion had anything to do with him shooting these people.  I am sure it have people in Canada who shoot up their workplace as well but incidents like that don't make international news.  For good or bad American media is globally pervasive, so anything that happens here becomes readily available around the world.  Everyone around the world knows of CNN, FOX and MSNBC... and readily go there for 'news'.  Ask those same people to name international news sources on par with these from other countries and the most they'll volunteer is the BBC or Al-Jazeera.  It takes something exceptional happening in other countries to make news internationally, but if America only fart people like you could not only describe the smell, but diagnose what America had fuh lunch as well.

Is not u who strt the gun violence talk?  I was talkin bout d fact that is u right 2 bear arms mean like u have d right 2 use it when u get vex. U and Jc went on bout gun violence.
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Offline elan

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Re: Fort Hood Shooting - TEXAS
« Reply #64 on: November 09, 2009, 11:57:46 AM »
Alyuh knowWikiBakes will try to convince ah orange that it is an apple.

Up to now he eh address the crux of the matter that Weary address, "what is the motivation for Americans to use guns to deal with frustrations, disappointments, etc?" Though you can argue that every country have it's share of gun crimes, the simplicity of killing random people because you lost your job or your wife divorce you or you are being placed in a situtation you don't want to be is absolutely dumb. This shows an inability to deal with emotions and rectify differences amicably. Remember most of these type crimes are committed by "educated" people who hold are normally valued members of the community.

In T&T, they killing people (gang wars, attempted robberies, kidnapping, crimes within the "norm" of crimes). I remember my friend getting fired and when he was going too the HR office, the HR ask for him to be escorted. The reason being, when people are fired they tend to react violently.

So as  Weary ask, what is the reason these people choose this type of response to stressful situations?
<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/blUSVALW_Z4" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/blUSVALW_Z4</a>

truetrini

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Re: Fort Hood Shooting - TEXAS
« Reply #65 on: November 09, 2009, 12:04:04 PM »
So guns make them react so?  And what is norm al as it pertains to crime?  steups

Offline weary1969

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Re: Fort Hood Shooting - TEXAS
« Reply #66 on: November 09, 2009, 12:15:09 PM »
Alyuh knowWikiBakes will try to convince ah orange that it is an apple.

Up to now he eh address the crux of the matter that Weary address, "what is the motivation for Americans to use guns to deal with frustrations, disappointments, etc?" Though you can argue that every country have it's share of gun crimes, the simplicity of killing random people because you lost your job or your wife divorce you or you are being placed in a situtation you don't want to be is absolutely dumb. This shows an inability to deal with emotions and rectify differences amicably. Remember most of these type crimes are committed by "educated" people who hold are normally valued members of the community.

In T&T, they killing people (gang wars, attempted robberies, kidnapping, crimes within the "norm" of crimes). I remember my friend getting fired and when he was going too the HR office, the HR ask for him to be escorted. The reason being, when people are fired they tend to react violently.

So as  Weary ask, what is the reason these people choose this type of response to stressful situations?



My hypothesis ihas been clearly stated but d null hypothesis rambling on and on
So guns make them react so?  And what is norm al as it pertains to crime?  steups

U tell we       
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Offline Bakes

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Re: Fort Hood Shooting - TEXAS
« Reply #67 on: November 09, 2009, 12:37:47 PM »

Is not u who strt the gun violence talk?  I was talkin bout d fact that is u right 2 bear arms mean like u have d right 2 use it when u get vex. U and Jc went on bout gun violence.

Where did you EVER say that?

Offline weary1969

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Re: Fort Hood Shooting - TEXAS
« Reply #68 on: November 09, 2009, 12:41:58 PM »

Is not u who strt the gun violence talk?  I was talkin bout d fact that is u right 2 bear arms mean like u have d right 2 use it when u get vex. U and Jc went on bout gun violence.

Where did you EVER say that?

Well it was implied but I guess yuh eh get it.
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Offline Bakes

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Re: Fort Hood Shooting - TEXAS
« Reply #69 on: November 09, 2009, 12:47:15 PM »
Alyuh knowWikiBakes will try to convince ah orange that it is an apple.

Up to now he eh address the crux of the matter that Weary address, "what is the motivation for Americans to use guns to deal with frustrations, disappointments, etc?" Though you can argue that every country have it's share of gun crimes, the simplicity of killing random people because you lost your job or your wife divorce you or you are being placed in a situtation you don't want to be is absolutely dumb. This shows an inability to deal with emotions and rectify differences amicably. Remember most of these type crimes are committed by "educated" people who hold are normally valued members of the community.

In T&T, they killing people (gang wars, attempted robberies, kidnapping, crimes within the "norm" of crimes). I remember my friend getting fired and when he was going too the HR office, the HR ask for him to be escorted. The reason being, when people are fired they tend to react violently.

So as  Weary ask, what is the reason these people choose this type of response to stressful situations?

No wonder you sporting ah gyul name like "elan", because yuh's ah f**king c**t... ah walking, breathing festering c**t.  Up to now Weary ent talk about the man frustrations... the most she alluded to more than a day later into the discussion is the talk about people going postal and why that happens more in the US than other places.  Even so none of what she suggested was anything to do with the individual motivation or psychological reasons.  All she keep harping on was Second Amendment talk.  How de f**k Second Amendment talk all of a sudden turn into "why d yankees does go postal"??

If that is what she did say from jump it wouldna have no setta long talk because it is apparent that the problem of workplace violence is more acute here than elsewhere.  I have no issues with that... that is a fact that people with more degrees behind dey name dan me can't figure out.  My entire opposition to her comment centers on the tenuous link she tried to establish between this shooting and 2nd Amendment rights.  It shouldn't be too hard to recognize dat... but de uneducated dunce that you are it is understandable that you would struggle to recognize that... especially when yuh so busy sizing yuh head to fit up next man ass.

Offline weary1969

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Re: Fort Hood Shooting - TEXAS
« Reply #70 on: November 09, 2009, 12:47:43 PM »
UPDATE: Hasan is awake and able to talk. According to reports, the hospital spokesman announced it this morning and it is likely investigators will start their questioning immediately. Hasan was shot in the torso by a police officer. His motive is not yet clear whether it was a shooting spree or a terroristic attack.

"This is a modest tribute to those who lost their lives even as many were preparing to risk their lives for their country," Obama said in remarks delivered at the White House, which also will fly its flag at half-staff. "And it's also a recognition of the men and women who put their lives on the line every day to protect our safety and uphold our values."

Thirteen people died either at the Army base's Soldier Readiness Center or in area hospitals of injuries they sustained after being shot by alleged gunman Maj. Nidal Malik Hasan, 39, who began firing on soldiers as they prepared to deploy, Col. John Rossi, deputy commanding general at Fort Hood, said Friday during an early morning news conference.

Of the 30 people injured, 28 remained hospitalized, Rossi said. One civilian was among the 13 who died and several civilians were among the injured, he said.
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Offline weary1969

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Re: Fort Hood Shooting - TEXAS
« Reply #71 on: November 09, 2009, 12:49:12 PM »
Alyuh knowWikiBakes will try to convince ah orange that it is an apple.

Up to now he eh address the crux of the matter that Weary address, "what is the motivation for Americans to use guns to deal with frustrations, disappointments, etc?" Though you can argue that every country have it's share of gun crimes, the simplicity of killing random people because you lost your job or your wife divorce you or you are being placed in a situtation you don't want to be is absolutely dumb. This shows an inability to deal with emotions and rectify differences amicably. Remember most of these type crimes are committed by "educated" people who hold are normally valued members of the community.

In T&T, they killing people (gang wars, attempted robberies, kidnapping, crimes within the "norm" of crimes). I remember my friend getting fired and when he was going too the HR office, the HR ask for him to be escorted. The reason being, when people are fired they tend to react violently.

So as  Weary ask, what is the reason these people choose this type of response to stressful situations?

No wonder you sporting ah gyul name like "elan", because yuh's ah f**king c**t... ah walking, breathing festering c**t.  Up to now Weary ent talk about the man frustrations... the most she alluded to more than a day later into the discussion is the talk about people going postal and why that happens more in the US than other places.  Even so none of what she suggested was anything to do with the individual motivation or psychological reasons.  All she keep harping on was Second Amendment talk.  How de f**k Second Amendment talk all of a sudden turn into "why d yankees does go postal"??

If that is what she did say from jump it wouldna have no setta long talk because it is apparent that the problem of workplace violence is more acute here than elsewhere.  I have no issues with that... that is a fact that people with more degrees behind dey name dan me can't figure out.  My entire opposition to her comment centers on the tenuous link she tried to establish between this shooting and 2nd Amendment rights.  It shouldn't be too hard to recognize dat... but de uneducated dunce that you are it is understandable that you would struggle to recognize that... especially when yuh so busy sizing yuh head to fit up next man ass.

So once yuh frustrated is aok. Nobody else doh b frustrated.
Today you're the dog, tomorrow you're the hydrant - so be good to others - it comes back!"

Offline ribbit

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Re: Fort Hood Shooting - TEXAS
« Reply #72 on: November 09, 2009, 01:00:46 PM »
another impact of the 2nd amendment is that it guaranteed a market for guns (for civilians). check the subsequent growth of the civilian firearms industry and rise of the gun lobby. that's a fundamental change to the big picture. de usa woulda coulda been a very different society.

lots of innovation in that industry as well. the gun hassan had is called "the cop killer" - designed to go through kevlar. deer doh wear kevlar so draw your own conclusions.

Offline weary1969

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Re: Fort Hood Shooting - TEXAS
« Reply #73 on: November 09, 2009, 01:05:26 PM »
another impact of the 2nd amendment is that it guaranteed a market for guns (for civilians). check the subsequent growth of the civilian firearms industry and rise of the gun lobby. that's a fundamental change to the big picture. de usa woulda coulda been a very different society.

lots of innovation in that industry as well. the gun hassan had is called "the cop killer" - designed to go through kevlar. deer doh wear kevlar so draw your own conclusions.

Nah none ah dem significant d fella was frustrated
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Offline Bakes

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Re: Fort Hood Shooting - TEXAS
« Reply #74 on: November 09, 2009, 01:17:05 PM »
So once yuh frustrated is aok. Nobody else doh b frustrated.

Where did I ever suggest that it was ok??

Nah none ah dem significant d fella was frustrated

That should answer the apologists who run in here saying how yuh was really questioning "what is the motivation for Americans to use guns to deal with frustrations, disappointments, etc?"

It also betrays your true agenda as one more oriented to implicating the availability of guns itself... and not whether said availability makes people feel like they have a right to use it.
« Last Edit: November 09, 2009, 01:21:35 PM by Bake n Shark »

Offline pecan

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Re: Fort Hood Shooting - TEXAS
« Reply #75 on: November 09, 2009, 02:27:18 PM »
When dis become an issue of legal and illegal guns. D issue is y yankees luv 2 go postal. We neva was talkin bout gun violence every country have an issue wit gun violence. But the good ole USA is the place where a man loose he wuk and 2 yrs later go shoot up d place stop changing the goal post. D gun use in Fort Hood as legal as dey come. But would a Canadian muslim in d same situation do the same ting. U are d intellectual what is d answer.



...  I am sure it have people in Canada who shoot up their workplace as well but incidents like that don't make international news. 

Workplace shootings in Canada are very rare .. they do happen but not to the extent as they do in the US, even when measured on a per capita scale.  In 2004, there were 184 firearm fatalities and most were not workplace related. 

Here are some stats on the worst mass-workplace killing in Canada from recent years.  Note how how infrequent it is. Or maybe they eh reporting the one-off shooting because they doh count as mass murder ..


December 1989: 14 women killed by anti-feminist Marc Lepine at Montreal's Ecole Polytechnique engineering school.  Lepine wounded another 9 women and 4 men and fatally shot himself.

1975: 13 people die after being herded into a storage room in Montreal's Gargantua nightclub.  Some were shot but most suffocated when the building was set on fire in what was believed to be an underworld contract hit. 

September, 1992: 9 miners killed by deliberately set blast in Yellowknife's Giant Mine.   Roger Warren, a striking miner, sentenced to life in prison for setting the bomb during a bitter strike-lockout.

April 1999: 4 employees killed at OC Transport transit garage in Ottawa by co-worker, Pierre Lebrun.   Lebrun, who had complained of ongoing harassment in the workplace, then killed himself.

1992: 4 members of engineering faculty at Concordia University in Montreal gunned down by a disgruntled colleague-- sentenced to life in prison.

1984: 3 people killed by wild machine-gun fire when Canadian Forces Cpl. Denis Lortie invades the Quebec legislature.

1992: 3 people killed and a fourth was injured after a botched robbery at a McDonald's restaurant in Sydney River, N.S.  Three men were handed life sentences for the triple-slaying.

1992: 3 shot to death at Ontario Glove, a plant in Waterloo, by co-worker Patrick Dombroskie.  He then drove to nearby Cambridge and surrendered.


There have also been school shootings in Canada.  14 women were killed by a madman/sicko in Montreal in '89 (see list above)  The fatalities are in the last column (to the right of the year) in the table below

Altona schoolhouse shooting    Altona, Manitoba, Canada    October 10    1902.     2 killed
Centennial Secondary School shooting    Brampton, Ontario Canada    May 28    1975 .    2 killed
St Pius X High School School    Ottawa, Ontario, Canada    October 27    1975.     1 killed
École Polytechnique Massacre    Montreal, Quebec, Canada    December 6    1989.      14 killed
Concordia University massacre    Montreal, Quebec, Canada    August 24    1992.    4 killed
W. R. Myers High School shooting    Taber, Alberta, Canada    April 28    1999 .   1 killed
Dawson College shooting    Montreal, Quebec, Canada    September 13    2006 .   1 killed
C. W. Jefferys Collegiate Institute shooting    Toronto, Ontario, Canada    May 23 , 2007.    1  killed    
Bendale Business and Technical Institute shooting    Toronto, Ontario, Canada    September 16 , 2008    0  killed

That is a total of 26 fatalities in over a century.

Here is an article from 2007 on US gun fatalities in 2004

Dr. Z’s Medical Report
Ed Zimney, MD
Health and Medical News You Can Use
April 24, 2007
Firearm Fatalities – The Awful Toll

The tragic murders of 32 innocent people at Virginia Tech on April 16 should be a wakeup call to the shocking fact that, on average, and in some macabre coincidence, 32 people are murdered by firearms every single day in the United States. This is based on data from 2004 (the most recent figures available) in which there were 11,624 firearm-related murders. That’s in comparison to a total of 184 firearm murders in Canada in 2004, 73 in England and Wales, 56 in Australia, 37 in Sweden, and 5 in New Zealand.

In 2004, there were 29,569 total firearm fatalities, including 16,750 suicides, 649 accidents and 235 with unknown intent. That’s 81 firearm-related deaths every single day in the United States.

The presence of a gun in the home triples the risk of homicide in the home and raises the risk of suicide fivefold. There are approximately 194 million privately owned firearms in the U.S., including 65 million handguns. In 1998, licensed firearm dealers sold an estimated 4.4 million guns, of which 1.7 million were handguns.

In 2004, nearly 8 children and teenagers, ages 19 and under, were killed by guns every single day. Each year during 1993-1997, an average of 1,621 murderers were under the age of 18 when they took someone’s life with a gun.

The tragedy at Virginia Tech is grievously played out every day in the United States.

How many deaths will it take…



Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see.

Offline elan

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Re: Fort Hood Shooting - TEXAS
« Reply #76 on: November 09, 2009, 02:30:38 PM »
Alyuh knowWikiBakes will try to convince ah orange that it is an apple.

Up to now he eh address the crux of the matter that Weary address, "what is the motivation for Americans to use guns to deal with frustrations, disappointments, etc?" Though you can argue that every country have it's share of gun crimes, the simplicity of killing random people because you lost your job or your wife divorce you or you are being placed in a situtation you don't want to be is absolutely dumb. This shows an inability to deal with emotions and rectify differences amicably. Remember most of these type crimes are committed by "educated" people who hold are normally valued members of the community.

In T&T, they killing people (gang wars, attempted robberies, kidnapping, crimes within the "norm" of crimes). I remember my friend getting fired and when he was going too the HR office, the HR ask for him to be escorted. The reason being, when people are fired they tend to react violently.

So as  Weary ask, what is the reason these people choose this type of response to stressful situations?

No wonder you sporting ah gyul name like "elan", because yuh's ah f**king c**t... ah walking, breathing festering c**t.  Up to now Weary ent talk about the man frustrations... the most she alluded to more than a day later into the discussion is the talk about people going postal and why that happens more in the US than other places.  Even so none of what she suggested was anything to do with the individual motivation or psychological reasons.  All she keep harping on was Second Amendment talk.  How de f**k Second Amendment talk all of a sudden turn into "why d yankees does go postal"??

If that is what she did say from jump it wouldna have no setta long talk because it is apparent that the problem of workplace violence is more acute here than elsewhere.  I have no issues with that... that is a fact that people with more degrees behind dey name dan me can't figure out.  My entire opposition to her comment centers on the tenuous link she tried to establish between this shooting and 2nd Amendment rights.  It shouldn't be too hard to recognize dat... but de uneducated dunce that you are it is understandable that you would struggle to recognize that... especially when yuh so busy sizing yuh head to fit up next man ass.

WikiBakes, yuh never disappoint.

I guess you reading and taking what yuh want, is the same as me not being able to understand your myopic point of view. As well your boyish attempts at insult will go before.

My name is girlish, and you live up to yours, a powdery  scavenger.
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Offline pecan

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Re: Fort Hood Shooting - TEXAS
« Reply #77 on: November 09, 2009, 02:40:06 PM »
Alyuh knowWikiBakes will try to convince ah orange that it is an apple.

Up to now he eh address the crux of the matter that Weary address, "what is the motivation for Americans to use guns to deal with frustrations, disappointments, etc?" Though you can argue that every country have it's share of gun crimes, the simplicity of killing random people because you lost your job or your wife divorce you or you are being placed in a situtation you don't want to be is absolutely dumb. This shows an inability to deal with emotions and rectify differences amicably. Remember most of these type crimes are committed by "educated" people who hold are normally valued members of the community.

In T&T, they killing people (gang wars, attempted robberies, kidnapping, crimes within the "norm" of crimes). I remember my friend getting fired and when he was going too the HR office, the HR ask for him to be escorted. The reason being, when people are fired they tend to react violently.

So as  Weary ask, what is the reason these people choose this type of response to stressful situations?

No wonder you sporting ah gyul name like "elan", because yuh's ah f**king c**t... ah walking, breathing festering c**t.  Up to now Weary ent talk about the man frustrations... the most she alluded to more than a day later into the discussion is the talk about people going postal and why that happens more in the US than other places.  Even so none of what she suggested was anything to do with the individual motivation or psychological reasons.  All she keep harping on was Second Amendment talk.  How de f**k Second Amendment talk all of a sudden turn into "why d yankees does go postal"??

If that is what she did say from jump it wouldna have no setta long talk because it is apparent that the problem of workplace violence is more acute here than elsewhere.  I have no issues with that... that is a fact that people with more degrees behind dey name dan me can't figure out.  My entire opposition to her comment centers on the tenuous link she tried to establish between this shooting and 2nd Amendment rights.  It shouldn't be too hard to recognize dat... but de uneducated dunce that you are it is understandable that you would struggle to recognize that... especially when yuh so busy sizing yuh head to fit up next man ass.

WikiBakes, yuh never disappoint.

I guess you reading and taking what yuh want, is the same as me not being able to understand your myopic point of view. As well your boyish attempts at insult will go before.

My name is girlish, and you live up to yours, a powdery  scavenger.

The use of 'Social filters' is the underlying phenomenon at play here.  He doh have any (i.e not knowing how to interact in a socially acceptable fashion). Or maybe he confusing that with fatigue and picong.  :-\
Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see.

Offline Bakes

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Re: Fort Hood Shooting - TEXAS
« Reply #78 on: November 09, 2009, 02:44:55 PM »
WikiBakes, yuh never disappoint.

I guess you reading and taking what yuh want, is the same as me not being able to understand your myopic point of view. As well your boyish attempts at insult will go before.

My name is girlish, and you live up to yours, a powdery  scavenger.

Weary come back and ridicule the same "frustration" point yuh claim she was making yuh illiterate c**t.  Yuh doh even f**king know what it is sheself arguing but yuh running tuh throw yuh frame in de conversation say yuh trying to "explain" what she mean.  Damn ass.


btw... a shark is a predator yuh tun tun hole... not a scavenger.  Ah even one ah dem li'l schoogirls yuh claim tuh be coaching coulda tell yuh dat, big f**king dunce like you.

Offline verycute1

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Re: Fort Hood Shooting - TEXAS
« Reply #79 on: November 09, 2009, 04:45:10 PM »
another impact of the 2nd amendment is that it guaranteed a market for guns (for civilians). check the subsequent growth of the civilian firearms industry and rise of the gun lobby. that's a fundamental change to the big picture. de usa woulda coulda been a very different society.

lots of innovation in that industry as well. the gun hassan had is called "the cop killer" - designed to go through kevlar. deer doh wear kevlar so draw your own conclusions.

Nah none ah dem significant d fella was frustrated


Weary girl, you know I wouldnt step on you toes for anything, but you have to explain this one to me. Your statement as written, makes it seem like you are excusing his actions because he was frustrated. I see big red flags everywhere as far as this man was concerned, and none of his actions strike me as that of a man who was frustrated. Crazy, perhaps, insane, most likely, but not frustrated.





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Offline elan

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Re: Fort Hood Shooting - TEXAS
« Reply #80 on: November 09, 2009, 04:46:24 PM »
WikiBakes, yuh never disappoint.

I guess you reading and taking what yuh want, is the same as me not being able to understand your myopic point of view. As well your boyish attempts at insult will go before.

My name is girlish, and you live up to yours, a powdery  scavenger.

Weary come back and ridicule the same "frustration" point yuh claim she was making yuh illiterate c**t.  Yuh doh even f**king know what it is sheself arguing but yuh running tuh throw yuh frame in de conversation say yuh trying to "explain" what she mean.  Damn ass.


btw... a shark is a predator yuh tun tun hole... not a scavenger.  Ah even one ah dem li'l schoogirls yuh claim tuh be coaching coulda tell yuh dat, big f**king dunce like you.

Hahahhaaaa
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Offline elan

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Re: Fort Hood Shooting - TEXAS
« Reply #81 on: November 09, 2009, 04:54:33 PM »
WikiBakes, yuh never disappoint.

I guess you reading and taking what yuh want, is the same as me not being able to understand your myopic point of view. As well your boyish attempts at insult will go before.

My name is girlish, and you live up to yours, a powdery  scavenger.

Weary come back and ridicule the same "frustration" point yuh claim she was making yuh illiterate c**t.  Yuh doh even f**king know what it is sheself arguing but yuh running tuh throw yuh frame in de conversation say yuh trying to "explain" what she mean.  Damn ass.


btw... a shark is a predator yuh tun tun hole... not a scavenger.  Ah even one ah dem li'l schoogirls yuh claim tuh be coaching coulda tell yuh dat, big f**king dunce like you.

WikiBakes..... and you calling me a dunce.  :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:
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Offline weary1969

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Re: Fort Hood Shooting - TEXAS
« Reply #82 on: November 09, 2009, 07:54:45 PM »
another impact of the 2nd amendment is that it guaranteed a market for guns (for civilians). check the subsequent growth of the civilian firearms industry and rise of the gun lobby. that's a fundamental change to the big picture. de usa woulda coulda been a very different society.

lots of innovation in that industry as well. the gun hassan had is called "the cop killer" - designed to go through kevlar. deer doh wear kevlar so draw your own conclusions.

Nah none ah dem significant d fella was frustrated


Weary girl, you know I wouldnt step on you toes for anything, but you have to explain this one to me. Your statement as written, makes it seem like you are excusing his actions because he was frustrated. I see big red flags everywhere as far as this man was concerned, and none of his actions strike me as that of a man who was frustrated. Crazy, perhaps, insane, most likely, but not frustrated.







Cute my hypothesis is dat u yanks go postal because u have d right 2 bear arms. By extension if u have it u go use it. D bright ones among us u c I went 2 school in august say I dotish etc and I neva take d man frustrations into consideration. That is d only reason d frustations was mentioned.
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Offline Bakes

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Re: Fort Hood Shooting - TEXAS
« Reply #83 on: November 09, 2009, 08:46:15 PM »
Cute my hypothesis is dat u yanks go postal because u have d right 2 bear arms. By extension if u have it u go use it. D bright ones among us u c I went 2 school in august say I dotish etc and I neva take d man frustrations into consideration. That is d only reason d frustations was mentioned.

Can you point to where anyone said you never took his frustrations into consideration?  Matter of fact doh bother, I'm beginning to sense it will just be a further waste of time.

Offline weary1969

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Re: Fort Hood Shooting - TEXAS
« Reply #84 on: November 09, 2009, 09:18:20 PM »
Cute my hypothesis is dat u yanks go postal because u have d right 2 bear arms. By extension if u have it u go use it. D bright ones among us u c I went 2 school in august say I dotish etc and I neva take d man frustrations into consideration. That is d only reason d frustations was mentioned.

Can you point to where anyone said you never took his frustrations into consideration?  Matter of fact doh bother, I'm beginning to sense it will just be a further waste of time.

U bring up d issue of frustration dat is yuh dependant variable. I simply stated a hypothesis.
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Offline Bakes

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Re: Fort Hood Shooting - TEXAS
« Reply #85 on: November 09, 2009, 09:48:49 PM »
U bring up d issue of frustration dat is yuh dependant variable. I simply stated a hypothesis.

Oh really?  Where did I bring up frustration?

...and while yuh at it show me where I said you never brought up frustration.


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Offline verycute1

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Re: Fort Hood Shooting - TEXAS
« Reply #86 on: November 09, 2009, 10:14:38 PM »
OK Weary I think I see your point but... I respectfully disagree. Just because you have it or are allowed to, doesnt mean you will use it. For every idiot that uses their registered gun to commit mass murder or murder in general, there are hundreds more that don't. And you ignoring the multiple shootings that are committed by illegal weapons where something like the right to bear, just doesnt count.

Wasnt there a shooting recently in trinidad where an officer was gunned down? It seems like almost once a week if not more, someone dies from a shooting in Trinidad and arent all these guns illegal? What about that man, the murder suspect who was shot in the court yard? Were those hitmen carrying licensed guns? What will you blame those murders on?

You Saying that "we yanks" go postal because we have the right to bear arms, what are you going to say about the ever increasing gun related murders in Trinidad? Or doesnt it count because in the US, most of the time when some idiot takes out a firearm, they take down more than one person? Are we willing to overlook gun related crime in Trinidad because we only taking people out one at a time?


Guns, whether legal or illegal, kill people. That is a fact.
Guns kill people in several countries all over the world. That is a fact.
Guns kill people in Trinidad. That is a fact.
There are more gun related deaths in the US than anywhere else. That is a fact. However you need to take out the suicides and accidental shootings and look at just the pure murder, then break that down into legal guns and illegal guns before you make any type of judgement about Right to Bear and going postal.
Gun related crimes are on the rise. That is another fact.
High instances of firearm related death in the US can be attributed to the right to bear arms is a hypothesis. But you've already said you were just formulating a hypothesis. However in the same  way people say do not equate this incident with terrorism until we have solid proof, show me your data that says specifically that R2b is the reason "we" go postal. Because you know and I know that if I formulated a hypothesis like "Trinidadians has become a cesspool of crime where the innocent are held captive and robbed of their hard earned valuables,where people are afraid to go about their normal lives for fear of being the target of a vicious crime"  Or if I formulated a hypothesis like "There has to be an underground slave trade flourishing in Trinidad due to the number of missing people in trinidad every year" If I formulated any hypothesis such as these based strictly on what I read in the express or what I heard from some people living at home, you know damn well plenty people on this board would be hanging me out to dry. Let us not deal in hypothesis and supposition, let us deal with facts. And the only thing we know for sure is that some idiot shot a bunch of people on an army base. We dont know if he frustrated, we dont know if he have some kind of  PTSD.

Personally I believe that the media has created the environment where it is almost acceptable to go postal. Back in 98 or 99, I think, where there were several shooting instances in schools one after the other, and multiple killings,  kids saw other kids, rejects acting out against their perceived abuse. The media did everything but write a handbook for these troubled teens. If you were already borderline before and you have this article telling you that so and so took out almost his entire class with a gun he bought over the internet... well there's your copycat. Psychos watch this stuff and refine their plans based on what they observed in other situations. Nothing to do with R2B. Just some follow fashions.


Here's something else to think about. Guns, legal guns (and sometime illegal ones) are used to save lives, to ward off would be attackers, to scare off burglers, sometimes without taking any lives at all. And guns probably save more lives per year than they take. Why don't we hear about that in the media?
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Offline weary1969

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Re: Fort Hood Shooting - TEXAS
« Reply #87 on: November 09, 2009, 10:24:53 PM »
OK Weary I think I see your point but... I respectfully disagree. Just because you have it or are allowed to, doesnt mean you will use it. For every idiot that uses their registered gun to commit mass murder or murder in general, there are hundreds more that don't. And you ignoring the multiple shootings that are committed by illegal weapons where something like the right to bear, just doesnt count.

Wasnt there a shooting recently in trinidad where an officer was gunned down? It seems like almost once a week if not more, someone dies from a shooting in Trinidad and arent all these guns illegal? What about that man, the murder suspect who was shot in the court yard? Were those hitmen carrying licensed guns? What will you blame those murders on?

You Saying that "we yanks" go postal because we have the right to bear arms, what are you going to say about the ever increasing gun related murders in Trinidad? Or doesnt it count because in the US, most of the time when some idiot takes out a firearm, they take down more than one person? Are we willing to overlook gun related crime in Trinidad because we only taking people out one at a time?


Guns, whether legal or illegal, kill people. That is a fact.
Guns kill people in several countries all over the world. That is a fact.
Guns kill people in Trinidad. That is a fact.
There are more gun related deaths in the US than anywhere else. That is a fact. However you need to take out the suicides and accidental shootings and look at just the pure murder, then break that down into legal guns and illegal guns before you make any type of judgement about Right to Bear and going postal.
Gun related crimes are on the rise. That is another fact.
High instances of firearm related death in the US can be attributed to the right to bear arms is a hypothesis. But you've already said you were just formulating a hypothesis. However in the same  way people say do not equate this incident with terrorism until we have solid proof, show me your data that says specifically that R2b is the reason "we" go postal. Because you know and I know that if I formulated a hypothesis like "Trinidadians has become a cesspool of crime where the innocent are held captive and robbed of their hard earned valuables,where people are afraid to go about their normal lives for fear of being the target of a vicious crime"  Or if I formulated a hypothesis like "There has to be an underground slave trade flourishing in Trinidad due to the number of missing people in trinidad every year" If I formulated any hypothesis such as these based strictly on what I read in the express or what I heard from some people living at home, you know damn well plenty people on this board would be hanging me out to dry. Let us not deal in hypothesis and supposition, let us deal with facts. And the only thing we know for sure is that some idiot shot a bunch of people on an army base. We dont know if he frustrated, we dont know if he have some kind of  PTSD.

Personally I believe that the media has created the environment where it is almost acceptable to go postal. Back in 98 or 99, I think, where there were several shooting instances in schools one after the other, and multiple killings,  kids saw other kids, rejects acting out against their perceived abuse. The media did everything but write a handbook for these troubled teens. If you were already borderline before and you have this article telling you that so and so took out almost his entire class with a gun he bought over the internet... well there's your copycat. Psychos watch this stuff and refine their plans based on what they observed in other situations. Nothing to do with R2B. Just some follow fashions.


Here's something else to think about. Guns, legal guns (and sometime illegal ones) are used to save lives, to ward off would be attackers, to scare off burglers, sometimes without taking any lives at all. And guns probably save more lives per year than they take. Why don't we hear about that in the media?


Agree that crime is eveywhere but I was linkin d number of of goin postal shootings in d US as compare 2 other so call ist world countries. My hypothesis is at since it is common in d US because u have a right 2 bear arms. I eh talkin crime in particular I eh say d media eh play a role etc. I just wondering y in d US a shrink can go postal. Again I say if a Canadian was in d same situation would there be d same result?

Me eh say meh hypothesis right but I blieve I have a right to have d hypothesis even thou I went 2 school in august.
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Re: Fort Hood Shooting - TEXAS
« Reply #88 on: November 10, 2009, 02:27:47 AM »
very interesting!

http://www.guninformation.org/

MYTH: Keeping guns in the home increases personal protection.

TRUTH: Obviously, self defense is not a good argument against gun control since those who own firearms are actually more likely to be victims of homicide. Two studies published in The New England Journal of Medicine revealed that keeping a gun in the home increases the risk of both suicide and homicide. Keeping a gun in the home makes it 2.7 times more likely that someone will be a victim of homicide in your home (in almost all cases the victim is either related to or intimately acquainted with the murderer) (source) and 4.8 times more likely that someone will commit suicide (source). Guns make it more likely that a suicide attempt will be successful than if other means were used such as sleeping pills.

MYTH:"Guns don't kill, people kill people" is a good argument against gun control.
TRUTH: This pro-gun argument makes about as much sense as claiming that "glasses don't see, eyes see" is a good argument against wearing glasses. Glasses are a tool which help people to see just as guns are a tool that help people to kill and injure others. Empirical research indicates that firearms increase the chances that a crime will turn deadly. A study done by the National Commission on the Causes and Prevention of Violence reported that a victim is about five times more likely to survive if an attacker is armed with a knife rather than a gun (source). Furthermore, The International Crime Victim Survey concluded that there is a correlation between gun ownership and an increase in both homicide and suicide. "The present study, based on a sample of eighteen countries, confirms the result of previous work based on the 14 countries surveyed during the first International Crime Survey. Substantial correlations were found between gun ownership and gun-related as well as total homicide and suicide rates. Widespread gun ownership has not been found to reduce the likelihood of fatal events committed with other means. Thus, people do not turn to knives and other potentially lethal weapons less often when more guns are available, but more guns usually means more victims of homicide and suicide." (source- PDF File).

MYTH: Guns are used defensively 2.5 million times each year in the US.

TRUTH: Gary Kleck conducted a survey which concluded that 2.5 million people in the US each year use guns to defend themselves. One percent of the US population is between 2 and 3 million. So if only one percent of the survey respondents had answered the survey dishonestly that would make the results of the survey inaccurate by millions. According to the NCVS (National Crime Victim Survey) guns are used defensively less than 100,000 times each year (source). The NCVS surveyed over 90,000 people. In contrast, Kleck only surveyed about 5,000 people. Thus it would be reasonable to conclude that the NCVS provides a more reliable estimate of the number of defensive gun uses in the US. An article published in the Journal of Criminal Law and Criminology (Northwestern)87 (1997): 1430 revealed that using methods similiar to Kleck's, it could be concluded that nearly 20 million Americans have seen aircraft from another planet and that one million Americans have had contact with aliens.

"Since a small percentage of people may report virtually anything on a telephone survey, there are serious risks of overestimation in using such surveys to measure rare events. The problem becomes particularly severe when the issue has even a remote possibility of positive social desirability response bias. Consider the responses to a national random-digit-dial telephone survey of over 1500 adults conducted in May 1994 by ABC News and the Washington Post. [34] One question asked: 'Have you yourself ever seen anything that you believe was a spacecraft from another planet?' [Page 1438] Ten percent of respondents answered in the affirmative. These 150 individuals were then asked, 'Have you personally ever been in contact with aliens from another planet or not?' and 6% answered 'Yes.'By extrapolating to the national population, we might conclude that almost 20 million Americans have seen spacecraft from another planet, and over a million have been in personal contact with aliens from other planets. That more than a million Americans had contact with aliens would be incredible news--but not the kind actively publicized by reputable scientists."(source)

MYTH: A decrease in crime in Kennesaw, Georgia after it passed a law which required people to keep a firearm in their homes shows that guns reduce crime.

TRUTH: Philip J. Cook and Jens Ludwig explain, "The case of Kennesaw, Georgia, which adopted an ordinance in 1982 requiring every household to keep a gun, has been prominent. There have been several published analyses of the burglary trends in Kennesaw around the time of the ordinance, with contradictory results. In any event, this is not a good test of the deterrence hypothesis, since the ordinance was purely symbolic. Most homes in Kennesaw already had a gun before the ordinance, and it seems unlikely the ordinance had any effect on prevalence since there was no penalty specified in the law for refusal to comply." ("Guns and Burglary", Evaluating Gun Policy, pages 81-82)

The gun ownership rate of Kennesaw could have actually decreased because there has been a big increase in the population of Kennesaw since 1982, and it's not certain how many of the new residents abide by the ordinance. Nationwide the gun ownership rate has decreased according to the General Social Survey. So if Kennesaw has followed nationwide trends the gun ownership rate in Kennesaw would have also declined.

MYTH: People in Switzerland are heavily armed. There is an assault weapon in every Swiss home.

TRUTH: It's true that Swiss soldiers are required to keep their assault rifles at home. How big is the Swiss Army? 400,000 (source). There are about 3 million Swiss households (source- PDF file). 400,000/3,000,000= 0.133. Therefore, there is a military assault rifle in about 13% of Swiss homes. Switzerland also has rather strict gun control laws. In Switzerland a permit is required in order to purchase a weapon (The permit shows that you are at least 18 and don't have a criminal record). A permit is also required to carrry a weapon. Such a permit is mostly issued to people who work in security-type occupations. To obtain this permit, you have to demonstrate that you need to carry a weapon and that you know how to handle a gun safely and have knowledge of the law regarding firearms use (source). Soldiers in the Swiss Army are required to store their military weapons at home under lock and key and to undergo regular training. Strict gun laws in Switzerland minimize the dangers of gun ownership. However, such dangers can not be completely eliminated as illustrated by the case of Friedrich Leibacher who rushed into a session of parliament in the Swiss town of Zug. He used his Swiss Army assault rifle and a grenade to murder fourteen people. Eleven of these people were lawmakers (source) .

MYTH: The 1976 handgun ban in Washington D.C. caused an increase in crime.

TRUTH: The handgun ban has prevented 47 deaths each year (source) Gun control has saved lives. Let's look at a graph that displays information about the homicide rate in the District of Columbia a decade before the ban and a decade after. There are random fluctuations in the crime rate from year to year so it's best to look at homicide data from many years. In the decade preceding the ban, the homicide rate exceeded 35 per 100,000 4 times. In the decade following the ban this happened only once. The average homicide rate of the ten years that followed the ban was lower than the homicide rate of the previous decade. Was this part of a general decrease in homicide that would have happened without the ban? If that were so you would expect the non-gun homicide rate to have declined as well as the gun homicide rate. However, there was only a statistically significant decrease in the number of homicides that involved firearms.

MYTH: If you outlaw guns only the outlaws will have guns.

TRUTH: If you outlaw guns, very few criminals will have guns. In America guns start out legal. Then they enter the black market one way or the other (source). So if you have less legal guns then there will less guns entering the black market and consequently less outlaws owning guns. Think about it. Nations with very strict gun control laws such as the UK, Australia, and Japan have much lower gun crime rates than the US. The most probable explanation for this is that criminals in the US have much greater access to guns due to less gun control. Saying "If you outlaw guns only the outlaws will have guns" is very misleading and completely absurd. If you outlaw guns, less outlaws will have guns. Would you rather have more or less outlaws owning guns? The answer is obvious.

MYTH:Gun ownership is a protection against political tyranny.

TRUTH: Private ownership of guns was very common under Saddam Hussein's regime (source).It certainly didn't protect the Iraqi people against political tyranny. Gun ownership was legalized in Germany in 1928, five years before Hitler rose to power. Despite the claims of pro-gun activists, gun ownership did nothing to stop a tyrant like Hitler from seizing power. In 1938, Germany's gun laws were relaxed except in the case of Jews. Although the gun lobby has tried to associate racism with gun control, white supremacists have often praised the Nazis for being pro-gun and have opposed gun control. An example of that is this quote: "If you register your gun with anybody, you're a nut! When the conspiracy comes for your firearm, give it to 'em like this grand dragon is going to - right between the eyes." -Klu Klux Klan (Richmond Times- Dispatch, July 5, 1967)

Offline ribbit

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Re: Fort Hood Shooting - TEXAS
« Reply #89 on: November 10, 2009, 09:35:15 AM »
We dont know if he frustrated, we dont know if he have some kind of  PTSD.

imagine de military have hassan consoling soldiers coming back from tours, listening to their horror stories and then they promote him to major and send him to the same hell-on-earth he hearing about.


Here's something else to think about. Guns, legal guns (and sometime illegal ones) are used to save lives, to ward off would be attackers, to scare off burglers, sometimes without taking any lives at all. And guns probably save more lives per year than they take. Why don't we hear about that in the media?

funny how an absence of guns does save lives too. here's another thing a gun does. a gun indirectly puts a price on life; especially those guns designed specifically for humans.

 

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