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Author Topic: Death penalty for gays?  (Read 12546 times)

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truetrini

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Re: Death penalty for gays?
« Reply #30 on: December 16, 2009, 11:57:39 AM »
TC, i admire your attempts to enlighten a bunch of dummies. thing is they all living in a society that is the product of science and is idiot-proof enough to tolerate the inherently anti-scientific ignorance of religion. they could read their religious text and pretend that they devotely believe in it and when they sick, go to the hospital and get the best care that science provides. they will never experience a true test of their so-called faith knowing that they always have the safety net of science.

Man telling me that I using science to disprove the Koran, yet he using science to prove the Koran???  Steups.  he come with big bang and embryology and say that Mohammad and Koran right about it, den tell me dat science changing and dat teh koran constant...man contradicting he self without even knowing it.

If the Big Bang dat SCIENCE gave us is wrong...den why say the Koran was right about it?

The FACT of the matter is that The Koran NEVER addressed the Bing Bang Theory, ius a bunch of zealots who claiming that, yet when I show dem how different it is from what the Koran speaks of they vex, and saying science changing?   

And for their edification Sura 33:37 calls adopted children SONS not brothers!

Behold! Thou didst say to one who had received the grace of Allah and thy favour: "Retain thou (in wedlock) thy wife, and fear Allah." But thou didst hide in thy heart that which Allah was about to make manifest: thou didst fear the people, but it is more fitting that thou shouldst fear Allah. Then when Zaid had dissolved (his marriage) with her, with the necessary (formality), We joined her in marriage to thee: in order that (in future) there may be no difficulty to the Believers in (the matter of) marriage with the wives of their adopted sons, when the latter have dissolved with the necessary (formality) (their marriage) with them. And Allah's command must be fulfilled.
-- Sura 33:37

ThAT IS WHAT HE COME UP WITH AFTER he see he son wife wanted she so he come with something else!

bEFORE DAT THIS IS WHAT IT SAY:

Allah has not made for any man two hearts in his (one) body: nor has He made your wives whom ye divorce by Zihar your mothers: nor has He made your adopted sons your sons. Such is (only) your (manner of) speech by your mouths. But Allah tells (you) the Truth, and He shows the (right) Way. Call them by (the names of) their fathers: that is juster in the sight of Allah. But if ye know not their father's (names, call them) your Brothers in faith, or your maulas. But there is no blame on you if ye make a mistake therein: (what counts is) the intention of your hearts: and Allah is Oft-Returning, Most Merciful.
-- Sura 33:4-5

LOL HE COVER HE BASES GOOD
« Last Edit: December 16, 2009, 12:00:40 PM by Trinity Cross »

Offline sammy

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Re: Death penalty for gays?
« Reply #31 on: December 16, 2009, 04:16:06 PM »


Man telling me that I using science to disprove the Koran, yet he using science to prove the Koran???  Steups.  he come with big bang and embryology and say that Mohammad and Koran right about it, den tell me dat science changing and dat teh koran constant...man contradicting he self without even knowing it.

If the Big Bang dat SCIENCE gave us is wrong...den why say the Koran was right about it?


The FACT of the matter is that The Koran NEVER addressed the Bing Bang Theory, ius a bunch of zealots who claiming that, yet when I show dem how different it is from what the Koran speaks of they vex, and saying science changing?   

I was making a general statement about science on the whole breds. It changes as more info comes about, not only that but there are differing views on varying topics. -Am i wrong? 


And for their edification Sura 33:37 calls adopted children SONS not brothers!

Behold! Thou didst say to one who had received the grace of Allah and thy favour: "Retain thou (in wedlock) thy wife, and fear Allah." But thou didst hide in thy heart that which Allah was about to make manifest: thou didst fear the people, but it is more fitting that thou shouldst fear Allah. Then when Zaid had dissolved (his marriage) with her, with the necessary (formality), We joined her in marriage to thee: in order that (in future) there may be no difficulty to the Believers in (the matter of) marriage with the wives of their adopted sons, when the latter have dissolved with the necessary (formality) (their marriage) with them. And Allah's command must be fulfilled.
-- Sura 33:37

ThAT IS WHAT HE COME UP WITH AFTER he see he son wife wanted she so he come with something else!

bEFORE DAT THIS IS WHAT IT SAY:

Allah has not made for any man two hearts in his (one) body: nor has He made your wives whom ye divorce by Zihar your mothers: nor has He made your adopted sons your sons. Such is (only) your (manner of) speech by your mouths. But Allah tells (you) the Truth, and He shows the (right) Way. Call them by (the names of) their fathers: that is juster in the sight of Allah. But if ye know not their father's (names, call them) your Brothers in faith, or your maulas. But there is no blame on you if ye make a mistake therein: (what counts is) the intention of your hearts: and Allah is Oft-Returning, Most Merciful.
-- Sura 33:4-5

LOL HE COVER HE BASES GOOD









I already addressed that. I am not about to go around in circles. Thats y in my first post i said this to you :

hey, if u have questions/ concerns, why not consider joining an islamic site and debate/chat with some muslims who may be more knowledgable on the topics that you've raised?

However, if u dont want to believe u will never really accept any response posted by JC or any other user. So if u on that scene its just fruitless arguing with you. You will be just be firing ridiculous statements taken out of context or not even a part of islam, and we will have to spend all of our time trying to answer you like a contest or a game.


[/color]




I cant begin to answer all your concerns breds, hence the reason y my invitation to debate with men who might be in a better position to do so. I dont have the time or resources such as daniel pipes or jihad watch etc. to go around doing research to reply to their every claim in order to deter people from islam. Can u put some links to the sites that u got your info from, or did u come up with it on your own? - thanks.


No-one is against science ribbit....and no need to be disrespectful is big men talking here, is only u come in like a dummy with your comment.


"Giving away something in charity does not cause any decrease in a person's wealth, but increases it instead. The person who adopt humility for the sake of Allah is exalted in ranks by Him".
(Muslim)

Offline sammy

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Re: Death penalty for gays?
« Reply #32 on: December 16, 2009, 04:45:57 PM »

Morality have nutten to do with God, it is societal. 

If it is societal as u say, then y u finding issues with something that is accepted in the islamic society? Again, is there a law in the T&T or  "the west" about marrying the wife of your brother after he divorces her? If not, then what moral standing u are basing your argument on or what cause u championing?


God is Great they proclaim as they strap bombs on their bodies and kill themselves and innocents.

I have problems with that also, however i cant begin to imagine what goes through a man's mind to make him do that. Seeing your family killed and u cant retaliate can do things to a mans metal state, but that isnt an excuse for Killing innocents which is forbidden in islam.



« Last Edit: December 16, 2009, 04:51:52 PM by sammy »
"Giving away something in charity does not cause any decrease in a person's wealth, but increases it instead. The person who adopt humility for the sake of Allah is exalted in ranks by Him".
(Muslim)

truetrini

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Re: Death penalty for gays?
« Reply #33 on: December 16, 2009, 05:03:11 PM »
Each society has it own set of rules, but in most there is a common thread.  And one thing that is sick, and condemned like when Woody Allen married his adopted daughter, Mohammad making his adopted son divorce his wife so HE, Mohammad could have her is jes wrong!

I was championing no cause you came at me with questions and I answered them.  I happened to have studied a bit of religion and know what I know from research.  I wasn't always an atheist, far from it, if you knew the truth you'd be surprised.

I however feel very strongly that religion is man made and used for greater harm than good.

Matters not if atheists commit crimes, they have no platform of doing good, blessing people, praising god and claiming that they are here to serve humanity and spirituality.  AND again, it was his son..NOT his brother, and that is according to the Koran too.  he changed the rules after the marriage.  And I provided you with Suras showing the changes...and evolution.  If you choose not to see the truth of it all, then that is a matter for you and your faith.  You asked and I provided my side, your response frankly was very lame and puerile.

I also have a hard time rationalizing the level of brainwashing these Mullahs and Imams have over their charges that they can strap bombs on their bodies and shout God is Great while detonating themselves.  The despair, the frustration, the hatred, the bitterness that they have in their hearts.

but remember these guys believe that they are fighting Jihad, and ONE SURE WAY TO GET INTO PARADISE ACCORDING TO THE KORAN....IS THRU JIHAD!  Otherwise all other people enter hell first!  SO these young men, with no future as they can see, decide to die and enter into God's presence where they will be rewarded with 29(/) virgins and eternal bliss.

The guys sending them never seem to contemplate strapping the bombs on their bodies though! 

Offline just cool

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Re: Death penalty for gays?
« Reply #34 on: December 16, 2009, 06:10:32 PM »
Each society has it own set of rules, but in most there is a common thread.  And one thing that is sick, and condemned like when Woody Allen married his adopted daughter, Mohammad making his adopted son divorce his wife so HE, Mohammad could have her is jes wrong!

I was championing no cause you came at me with questions and I answered them.  I happened to have studied a bit of religion and know what I know from research.  I wasn't always an atheist, far from it, if you knew the truth you'd be surprised.

I however feel very strongly that religion is man made and used for greater harm than good.

Matters not if atheists commit crimes, they have no platform of doing good, blessing people, praising god and claiming that they are here to serve humanity and spirituality.  AND again, it was his son..NOT his brother, and that is according to the Koran too.  he changed the rules after the marriage.  And I provided you with Suras showing the changes...and evolution.  If you choose not to see the truth of it all, then that is a matter for you and your faith.  You asked and I provided my side, your response frankly was very lame and puerile.

I also have a hard time rationalizing the level of brainwashing these Mullahs and Imams have over their charges that they can strap bombs on their bodies and shout God is Great while detonating themselves.  The despair, the frustration, the hatred, the bitterness that they have in their hearts.

but remember these guys believe that they are fighting Jihad, and ONE SURE WAY TO GET INTO PARADISE ACCORDING TO THE KORAN....IS THRU JIHAD!  Otherwise all other people enter hell first!  SO these young men, with no future as they can see, decide to die and enter into God's presence where they will be rewarded with 29(/) virgins and eternal bliss.

The guys sending them never seem to contemplate strapping the bombs on their bodies though! 
Yuhs ah stinkin lying kaffa!!! ah tell yuh already if yuh go bring argument then come with correct info or refrain from posting missleading information!

 the man was not his son, but ah yute whom he raised from the age of 12, and he didn't make him devorce the woman!! but rather zaid devorced her on his own and muhammad married her afterwards!!

there's even an ayat in the quran where that was addressed. and that's BC in arab culture , ah man could not marry his son's ex wife so when muhammad was contemplating marrying zaynab( zaid's ex wife) but the ppl was having ah hard time accepting it, that's when the ayat was revealed telling muhammad tuh go ahead and marry her after zaid, and the ayat also mentioned that muhammad is not the father of non of you , but he's the messenger of allah, and it also stated that adopted son's should not be considered your sons but your breddren! 

you also lied about ah few things, but ah workin on something right now, and when ah get ah free time i will address all of the missleading crappy info yuh get on them orentailist web sites, and acting like yuh actually know bout islam, when yuh depending of the crappy missleading info of others.

all you doing is making ah big a$$ of yuh self since yuh missrepresent a lot of quranic verses. any arabic scholar who reads this slop will laugh his arse off, and will laugh even more when they find out that this didn't come from ah child, but ah hard granite stones fool!

don't you know mr bone head that arabic is not ah simple dimple language as english? one single word could have so many different meanings depending on the context? that's why there's tafsear  that explains the arabic and in what context the word was used , fellas does go tuh school yrs just tuh understand how tuh interpret quranic verses, but you just come along and know it just so? yuhs ah mega genius?
The pen is mightier than the sword, Africa for Africans home and abroad.Trinidad is not my home just a pit stop, Africa is my destination,final destination the MOST HIGH.

truetrini

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Re: Death penalty for gays?
« Reply #35 on: December 16, 2009, 06:22:13 PM »
Each society has it own set of rules, but in most there is a common thread.  And one thing that is sick, and condemned like when Woody Allen married his adopted daughter, Mohammad making his adopted son divorce his wife so HE, Mohammad could have her is jes wrong!

I was championing no cause you came at me with questions and I answered them.  I happened to have studied a bit of religion and know what I know from research.  I wasn't always an atheist, far from it, if you knew the truth you'd be surprised.

I however feel very strongly that religion is man made and used for greater harm than good.

Matters not if atheists commit crimes, they have no platform of doing good, blessing people, praising god and claiming that they are here to serve humanity and spirituality.  AND again, it was his son..NOT his brother, and that is according to the Koran too.  he changed the rules after the marriage.  And I provided you with Suras showing the changes...and evolution.  If you choose not to see the truth of it all, then that is a matter for you and your faith.  You asked and I provided my side, your response frankly was very lame and puerile.

I also have a hard time rationalizing the level of brainwashing these Mullahs and Imams have over their charges that they can strap bombs on their bodies and shout God is Great while detonating themselves.  The despair, the frustration, the hatred, the bitterness that they have in their hearts.

but remember these guys believe that they are fighting Jihad, and ONE SURE WAY TO GET INTO PARADISE ACCORDING TO THE KORAN....IS THRU JIHAD!  Otherwise all other people enter hell first!  SO these young men, with no future as they can see, decide to die and enter into God's presence where they will be rewarded with 29(/) virgins and eternal bliss.

The guys sending them never seem to contemplate strapping the bombs on their bodies though! 
Yuhs ah stinkin lying kaffa!!! ah tell yuh already if yuh go bring argument then come with correct info or refrain from posting missleading information!

 the man was not his son, but ah yute whom he raised from the age of 12, and he didn't make him devorce the woman!! but rather zaid devorced her on his own and muhammad married her afterwards!!

there's even an ayat in the quran where that was addressed. and that's BC in arab culture , ah man could not marry his son's ex wife so when muhammad was contemplating marrying zaynab( zaid's ex wife) but the ppl was having ah hard time accepting it, that's when the ayat was revealed telling muhammad tuh go ahead and marry her after zaid, and the ayat also mentioned that muhammad is not the father of non of you , but he's the messenger of allah, and it also stated that adopted son's should not be considered your sons but your breddren! 

you also lied about ah few things, but ah workin on something right now, and when ah get ah free time i will address all of the missleading crappy info yuh get on them orentailist web sites, and acting like yuh actually know bout islam, when yuh depending of the crappy missleading info of others.

all you doing is making ah big a$$ of yuh self since yuh missrepresent a lot of quranic verses. any arabic scholar who reads this slop will laugh his arse off, and will laugh even more when they find out that this didn't come from ah child, but ah hard granite stones fool!

don't you know mr bone head that arabic is not ah simple dimple language as english? one single word could have so many different meanings depending on the context? that's why there's tafsear  that explains the arabic and in what context the word was used , fellas does go tuh school yrs just tuh understand how tuh interpret quranic verses, but you just come along and know it just so? yuhs ah mega genius?


hahahahahaha  ahhhhhahahahahahahaha  yuh is ah cow c**t  Yuh dead wrong..The Koran also is not written entirely in Arabic also.  lol

yuh is ah clown.  Yuh working on nutten yuh have to run and ask people for rebuttals and for info yuh have to surf the web..I doh have to do dat fool.  I know more than you can about these religions for reasons I eh want to go into with YOU  asshole, I refrain..but I know enough to dispute yuh superstitious shit!

The people was having a hard time accepting thats is why Mohammed get ah revelation saying it ok...lol

RIGHTTTTTT!  Up until Mohammed marry de woman it was against custom in that area to marry yuh son, adopted or otherwise.  AFTER he marry her he get the"revelation," dat it was ok..lol BULLSHIT. he wanted that ass and got it and den justified it.

God say it ok thru Michael the arch angel.

lol

The religion for everyone needs scholars to interpret it..okkkk then...the man was his adopted son, jump high or jump low.  Mohammad wanted her and Zaid divorced her, Mohammad married her!



Wa `alaykum As-Salamu wa Rahmatullahi wa Barakatuh.

 

In the Name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.

 

All praise and thanks are due to Allah, and peace and blessings be upon His Messenger.

 

Dear questioner, we would like to thank you for the great confidence you place in us, and we implore Allah Almighty to help us serve His cause and render our work for His sake.

 

Generally speaking, divorce is not viewed favorably in Islam; rather it has been either condemned or discouraged unless warranted by valid reasons. The Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) cautioned against senseless exercise of divorce when he said "Divorce is the most abominable of all permissible acts in the sight of Allah" (Abu Dawud). So no one with sound Islamic spirit and attitude should resort to divorce except in extreme and unavoidable cases, where it has been considered as legitimate in Islam. The reason for this is clear, for divorce entails serious consequences for families and individuals. It results in deep psychological and emotional scars, especially when children are involved.

 

In his response to your question, Sheikh Ahmad Kutty, a senior lecturer and Islamic scholar at the Islamic Institute of Toronto, Ontario, Canada, states the following:

    This is certainly wholly untrue and false; such a misconception is mainly due to utter ignorance of the laws of the Shari`ah as well as, unfortunately, to the distorted ways we have been practicing these laws in our societies. When all the evidence is considered and evaluated, it is crystal clear that in Islam women, just like men, can have legitimate rights to divorce their husbands.

    Divorce, however, it must be noted, is the most abominable of all permissible things in Islam. It is considered as the pet project of the devil, who is never satisfied with anything other than breaking up the relations between a husband and his wife. So all conscientious Muslims, male as well as female, must guard against the snares of Satan. They are obligated to try their utmost to maintain the sanctity of family. Therefore, divorce is a rare exception only to be undertaken for specific reasons, after having exhausted all means of reconciliation.

    Having said this, I must state that Islam envisages perfect equity between the spouses in rights and responsibilities: [They shall have rights just as they have responsibilities in fair measure] (Al-Baqarah 2:228).

     

    Such rights of women definitely include the right to divorce their husbands when and where cohabitation becomes difficult.


    Such genuine reasons include physical or emotional abuse, for at no time does Islam tolerate such behavior from anyone; the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) instituted the firm principle that "there shall be no inflicting or reciprocating of harm" (Ahmad and Ibn Majah).

    The Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) inferred the above principle from numerous Qur'anic verses that clearly forbid abuse, injury, or harm in every respect in all cases, and even more particularly in spousal relations. Thus we read a constant theme in the Qur'an:

     

    [But do not retain them in order to harm or wrong them.] (Al-Baqarah 2:231)

     

    [Do not harass them so as to make life intolerable for them.] (At-Talaq 65:6)

     

    [A mother should not be made to suffer because of her child, nor should a father because of his child. The same duties devolve upon the father's heir.] (Al-Baqarah 2:233)

     

    Based on these and similar evidence, there is a consensus among scholars that where there is clear evidence of harm inflicted on a wife, she has every right to seek divorce from her husband.

     

    The Qur'an has also established the principle that where spouses feel that they are so utterly incompatible with each other that they find themselves in a situation where they will not be able to protect themselves against sins, then they have a right to divorce. Thus we read in the sources that the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) granted divorces to women who had complained to him that they were no longer happy with their husbands because of their incompatibility, while their husbands had no moral faults as such. The Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) never harassed these women by further questioning; he only told them to return the dower and gifts they had received from their husbands.

Excerpted, with slight modifications, from www.islam.ca.
« Last Edit: December 16, 2009, 06:29:06 PM by Trinity Cross »

Offline just cool

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Re: Death penalty for gays?
« Reply #36 on: December 16, 2009, 06:32:14 PM »
TC, i admire your attempts to enlighten a bunch of dummies. thing is they all living in a society that is the product of science and is idiot-proof enough to tolerate the inherently anti-scientific ignorance of religion. they could read their religious text and pretend that they devotely believe in it and when they sick, go to the hospital and get the best care that science provides. they will never experience a true test of their so-called faith knowing that they always have the safety net of science.
Imagine ah dummy trying tuh enlighten other dummies about science when that dummy in question believe system had evaded all scientific logic and reasoning. imagine he wants tuh redicule ppl when what he believes is full of holes!!

up till now there's still no intermediate species tuh conclude on evolution through natural selection THEORY!! HE could jump on muhammad and moses, but fellas like professor miller frabricating experiments tuh fool even the scientific community, what about the pilt down man's scandal! what about when they said that australiopithecenes was a predicesor and ancestor tuh homohabilis when there has been recent finding tuh show that homohabilis fosils out dated  australiopithecenes.

BC he ramble out some verses , doh mean he even knew what he was talking bout, them fellas only rambling, but they does pick they spots on topic tuh talk bout , and when they can't trump yuh , they act like you eh worth talking wid and begin with the insults and name callin, but ignore the facts that was put forth.
« Last Edit: April 01, 2010, 06:38:09 PM by just cool »
The pen is mightier than the sword, Africa for Africans home and abroad.Trinidad is not my home just a pit stop, Africa is my destination,final destination the MOST HIGH.

truetrini

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Re: Death penalty for gays?
« Reply #37 on: December 16, 2009, 06:49:13 PM »
TC, i admire your attempts to enlighten a bunch of dummies. thing is they all living in a society that is the product of science and is idiot-proof enough to tolerate the inherently anti-scientific ignorance of religion. they could read their religious text and pretend that they devotely believe in it and when they sick, go to the hospital and get the best care that science provides. they will never experience a true test of their so-called faith knowing that they always have the safety net of science.
Imagine ah dummy trying tuh enlighten other dummies about science when that dummy in question believe system had evaded all scientific logic and reasoning. imagine he wants tuh redicule ppl when what he believes is full of holes!!

up till now there's still no intermediate species tuh conclude on evolution through natural selection THEORY!! HE could jump on muhammad and moses, but fellas like professor miller frabricating experiments tuh fool even the scientific community, what about the pilt down man's scandal! what about when they said that australiopithecenes was a predicesor and ancestor tuh homohabilis when there has been recent finding tuh show that homohabilis fosils out dated  australiopithecenes.

BC he ramble out some verses , doh mean he even knew what he was talking bout, them fellas only rambling, but they does pick they spots on topic tuh talk bout , and when they can't trump yuh , they act like you eh worth talking wid and begin with the insults and name callin, but ignore the fact that was put forth.

ka-ka hole yuh done with yuh wuk?  Yuh come back talking shit?  You are the one who first resorted toi name calling.  I have answered every position yuh proposed, yuh is ah Muslim?  lol  Everytime something happened to Mohammad he come up with a verse in the Koran to address it...why Allah eh tell he what to do from the jump?

steups

de man make up something and allyuh swallow dat without question..good fuh allyuh.

I choose NOT to believe...and me eh care what allyuh believe as each man have dey own life to live.

all yuh degree in Biology eh prepare yuh for proper syntax and grammar and spelling?   oh yes, it was not ah english course or degree...wey yuh went to school?  Ah stilla waiting yuh diploma and yuh school...yuh fowl f**king asswipe.

truetrini

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Re: Death penalty for gays?
« Reply #38 on: December 16, 2009, 06:53:54 PM »
Zaynab bint Jahsh wife of Zayd ibn Harithah's (adopted son of Muhammad) wife, whom Muhammad saw dressed in a chemise with a veil over her face when he went to Zaid one day on certain business. She was fair, and her physical appearance was perfect among the women of the Quraish.  He saw her, get the hots for his adopted son's wife and had her.  he made his son divorce her so he could have her!

وَإِذْ تَقُولُ لِلَّذِي أَنْعَمَ اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَأَنْعَمْتَ عَلَيْهِ أَمْسِكْ عَلَيْكَ زَوْجَكَ وَاتَّقِ اللَّهَ وَتُخْفِي فِي نَفْسِكَ مَا اللَّهُ مُبْدِيهِ وَتَخْشَى النَّاسَ وَاللَّهُ أَحَقُّ أَن تَخْشَاهُ فَلَمَّا قَضَى زَيْدٌ مِّنْهَا وَطَرًا زَوَّجْنَاكَهَا لِكَيْ لَا يَكُونَ عَلَى الْمُؤْمِنِينَ حَرَجٌ فِي أَزْوَاجِ أَدْعِيَائِهِمْ إِذَا قَضَوْا مِنْهُنَّ وَطَرًا وَكَانَ أَمْرُ اللَّهِ مَفْعُولًا

"When thou saidst to him whom God has blessed and thou hadst favoured, 'Keep thy wife to thyself; and fear God', and thou wast concealing within thyself what God should reveal, fearing other men; and God has better right for thee to fear Him. So when Zaid had accomplished what he would of her, then We gave her in marriage to thee, so that there should not be any fault in the believers, touching the wives of their adopted son, when they had accomplished what they would of them; and God's commandment must be performed." (Sura al-Ahzab 33:37)[156]

Offline just cool

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Re: Death penalty for gays?
« Reply #39 on: December 16, 2009, 07:05:11 PM »
Each society has it own set of rules, but in most there is a common thread.  And one thing that is sick, and condemned like when Woody Allen married his adopted daughter, Mohammad making his adopted son divorce his wife so HE, Mohammad could have her is jes wrong!

I was championing no cause you came at me with questions and I answered them.  I happened to have studied a bit of religion and know what I know from research.  I wasn't always an atheist, far from it, if you knew the truth you'd be surprised.

I however feel very strongly that religion is man made and used for greater harm than good.

Matters not if atheists commit crimes, they have no platform of doing good, blessing people, praising god and claiming that they are here to serve humanity and spirituality.  AND again, it was his son..NOT his brother, and that is according to the Koran too.  he changed the rules after the marriage.  And I provided you with Suras showing the changes...and evolution.  If you choose not to see the truth of it all, then that is a matter for you and your faith.  You asked and I provided my side, your response frankly was very lame and puerile.

I also have a hard time rationalizing the level of brainwashing these Mullahs and Imams have over their charges that they can strap bombs on their bodies and shout God is Great while detonating themselves.  The despair, the frustration, the hatred, the bitterness that they have in their hearts.

but remember these guys believe that they are fighting Jihad, and ONE SURE WAY TO GET INTO PARADISE ACCORDING TO THE KORAN....IS THRU JIHAD!  Otherwise all other people enter hell first!  SO these young men, with no future as they can see, decide to die and enter into God's presence where they will be rewarded with 29(/) virgins and eternal bliss.

The guys sending them never seem to contemplate strapping the bombs on their bodies though! 
Yuhs ah stinkin lying kaffa!!! ah tell yuh already if yuh go bring argument then come with correct info or refrain from posting missleading information!

 the man was not his son, but ah yute whom he raised from the age of 12, and he didn't make him devorce the woman!! but rather zaid devorced her on his own and muhammad married her afterwards!!

there's even an ayat in the quran where that was addressed. and that's BC in arab culture , ah man could not marry his son's ex wife so when muhammad was contemplating marrying zaynab( zaid's ex wife) but the ppl was having ah hard time accepting it, that's when the ayat was revealed telling muhammad tuh go ahead and marry her after zaid, and the ayat also mentioned that muhammad is not the father of non of you , but he's the messenger of allah, and it also stated that adopted son's should not be considered your sons but your breddren! 

you also lied about ah few things, but ah workin on something right now, and when ah get ah free time i will address all of the missleading crappy info yuh get on them orentailist web sites, and acting like yuh actually know bout islam, when yuh depending of the crappy missleading info of others.

all you doing is making ah big a$$ of yuh self since yuh missrepresent a lot of quranic verses. any arabic scholar who reads this slop will laugh his arse off, and will laugh even more when they find out that this didn't come from ah child, but ah hard granite stones fool!

don't you know mr bone head that arabic is not ah simple dimple language as english? one single word could have so many different meanings depending on the context? that's why there's tafsear  that explains the arabic and in what context the word was used , fellas does go tuh school yrs just tuh understand how tuh interpret quranic verses, but you just come along and know it just so? yuhs ah mega genius?


hahahahahaha  ahhhhhahahahahahahaha  yuh is ah cow c**t  Yuh dead wrong..The Koran also is not written entirely in Arabic also.  lol

yuh is ah clown.  Yuh working on nutten yuh have to run and ask people for rebuttals and for info yuh have to surf the web..I doh have to do dat fool.  I know more than you can about these religions for reasons I eh want to go into with YOU  asshole, I refrain..but I know enough to dispute yuh superstitious shit!

The people was having a hard time accepting thats is why Mohammed get ah revelation saying it ok...lol

RIGHTTTTTT!  Up until Mohammed marry de woman it was against custom in that area to marry yuh son, adopted or otherwise.  AFTER he marry her he get the"revelation," dat it was ok..lol BULLSHIT. he wanted that ass and got it and den justified it.

God say it ok thru Michael the arch angel.

lol

The religion for everyone needs scholars to interpret it..okkkk then...the man was his adopted son, jump high or jump low.  Mohammad wanted her and Zaid divorced her, Mohammad married her!



Wa `alaykum As-Salamu wa Rahmatullahi wa Barakatuh.

 

In the Name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.

 

All praise and thanks are due to Allah, and peace and blessings be upon His Messenger.

 

Dear questioner, we would like to thank you for the great confidence you place in us, and we implore Allah Almighty to help us serve His cause and render our work for His sake.

 

Generally speaking, divorce is not viewed favorably in Islam; rather it has been either condemned or discouraged unless warranted by valid reasons. The Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) cautioned against senseless exercise of divorce when he said "Divorce is the most abominable of all permissible acts in the sight of Allah" (Abu Dawud). So no one with sound Islamic spirit and attitude should resort to divorce except in extreme and unavoidable cases, where it has been considered as legitimate in Islam. The reason for this is clear, for divorce entails serious consequences for families and individuals. It results in deep psychological and emotional scars, especially when children are involved.

 

In his response to your question, Sheikh Ahmad Kutty, a senior lecturer and Islamic scholar at the Islamic Institute of Toronto, Ontario, Canada, states the following:

    This is certainly wholly untrue and false; such a misconception is mainly due to utter ignorance of the laws of the Shari`ah as well as, unfortunately, to the distorted ways we have been practicing these laws in our societies. When all the evidence is considered and evaluated, it is crystal clear that in Islam women, just like men, can have legitimate rights to divorce their husbands.

    Divorce, however, it must be noted, is the most abominable of all permissible things in Islam. It is considered as the pet project of the devil, who is never satisfied with anything other than breaking up the relations between a husband and his wife. So all conscientious Muslims, male as well as female, must guard against the snares of Satan. They are obligated to try their utmost to maintain the sanctity of family. Therefore, divorce is a rare exception only to be undertaken for specific reasons, after having exhausted all means of reconciliation.

    Having said this, I must state that Islam envisages perfect equity between the spouses in rights and responsibilities: [They shall have rights just as they have responsibilities in fair measure] (Al-Baqarah 2:228).

     

    Such rights of women definitely include the right to divorce their husbands when and where cohabitation becomes difficult.


    Such genuine reasons include physical or emotional abuse, for at no time does Islam tolerate such behavior from anyone; the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) instituted the firm principle that "there shall be no inflicting or reciprocating of harm" (Ahmad and Ibn Majah).

    The Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) inferred the above principle from numerous Qur'anic verses that clearly forbid abuse, injury, or harm in every respect in all cases, and even more particularly in spousal relations. Thus we read a constant theme in the Qur'an:

     

    [But do not retain them in order to harm or wrong them.] (Al-Baqarah 2:231)

     

    [Do not harass them so as to make life intolerable for them.] (At-Talaq 65:6)

     

    [A mother should not be made to suffer because of her child, nor should a father because of his child. The same duties devolve upon the father's heir.] (Al-Baqarah 2:233)

     

    Based on these and similar evidence, there is a consensus among scholars that where there is clear evidence of harm inflicted on a wife, she has every right to seek divorce from her husband.

     

    The Qur'an has also established the principle that where spouses feel that they are so utterly incompatible with each other that they find themselves in a situation where they will not be able to protect themselves against sins, then they have a right to divorce. Thus we read in the sources that the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) granted divorces to women who had complained to him that they were no longer happy with their husbands because of their incompatibility, while their husbands had no moral faults as such. The Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) never harassed these women by further questioning; he only told them to return the dower and gifts they had received from their husbands.

Excerpted, with slight modifications, from www.islam.ca.

Breds ah think yuh should stop before yuh make ah bigger fool of yuh self! the quran is ah pure arabic text! go ask yuh scholars that yuh learned from. and for the record, i'm not you, i don't have tuh run tuh no one tuh deal wid you.

unlike you , i have ah life that i have tuh tend too, and can't run on the internet every day tuh talk bout relgion like you. i have tuh put food on the table, hence the reason i eh worrying wid you right now. as for zaid and his wife, what more yuh want meh tuh say?

 the man devorce the woman and muhammad married her, he didn't rape her and he didn't steal her, and he didn't ordered zaid to devorce her either, as you previously stated! it was consentual. i answered all yuh missrepresentations and all i could get iz that i'm ah C#$t, i'm ah A$$ i'm ah Fool! but no addmitance of bringing false info, first yuh said zaid was his son, then when i rebut that, yuh said muhammad ordered zaid tuh devorce her, then when i rebut that , yuh jump on devorce iz ah bad thing and muhammad condemn devorce and now he run and marry ah devocee. and bring up ah whole bunch of hadth tuh prove yuh point when hadith is ah very doubtful book, since most off them were put together 300 yrs after muhammad passed.

but lets go back to the quran! fella there's ah whole sura( chapter) in the quran dedicated to the rule and conditions of devorce, it's the 65th sura, AL TALAQ/ DEVORCE! if it was such an abomination then why is there ah whole chapter dedicated to devorce. keep coming wid yuh warp arguments! i doh need tuh go tuh no one for you, you real sorf, and the only reason i does oblige yuh sorf arguments is BC of the bredders on the board, and the fact that i want them tuh know the truth about islam and not the lie you gave to it!

but you coming with some real sorf arguments guy!
« Last Edit: April 01, 2010, 06:41:40 PM by just cool »
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truetrini

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Re: Death penalty for gays?
« Reply #40 on: December 16, 2009, 07:09:30 PM »
Breds is Arab scholars who say that divorce is not pleasing to Allah, not me..I wasn't dey when de man was marrying 6 years chirren and writing suras to cover he deeds.

As I said, this is a forum, if I put my ideas and thoughts, and yuh doh like dem...doh respond...BUT if yuh choose to respond, do so logically.

De man was he adopted son...he then changed the sura to say that thye should keep their blood lines and names and dat yuh could marry in dat case..it was not so before he marry de man wife.

Regardless if there are 20 suras dedicated to divorce, the fact is there is one saying it is evil and not pleasing to Allah...so which should I believe?


Quote
Allah, in His infinite, wisdom, recognized that some people would be ill-suited for one another. Rather than force them to live together in a farce of a marriage, divorce is allowed. However, divorce is not something to be taken lightly; it is to be used as a last resort. In fact, getting a divorce without a valid reason is considered a sin. In a hadith reported by Abu Dawud, Prophet Mohammed (PBUH) said, "Among lawful things, divorce is most hated by Allah."
[/b]
« Last Edit: December 16, 2009, 07:12:08 PM by Trinity Cross »

Offline just cool

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Re: Death penalty for gays?
« Reply #41 on: December 16, 2009, 07:15:50 PM »
Zaynab bint Jahsh wife of Zayd ibn Harithah's (adopted son of Muhammad) wife, whom Muhammad saw dressed in a chemise with a veil over her face when he went to Zaid one day on certain business. She was fair, and her physical appearance was perfect among the women of the Quraish.  He saw her, get the hots for his adopted son's wife and had her.  he made his son divorce her so he could have her!

وَإِذْ تَقُولُ لِلَّذِي أَنْعَمَ اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَأَنْعَمْتَ عَلَيْهِ أَمْسِكْ عَلَيْكَ زَوْجَكَ وَاتَّقِ اللَّهَ وَتُخْفِي فِي نَفْسِكَ مَا اللَّهُ مُبْدِيهِ وَتَخْشَى النَّاسَ وَاللَّهُ أَحَقُّ أَن تَخْشَاهُ فَلَمَّا قَضَى زَيْدٌ مِّنْهَا وَطَرًا زَوَّجْنَاكَهَا لِكَيْ لَا يَكُونَ عَلَى الْمُؤْمِنِينَ حَرَجٌ فِي أَزْوَاجِ أَدْعِيَائِهِمْ إِذَا قَضَوْا مِنْهُنَّ وَطَرًا وَكَانَ أَمْرُ اللَّهِ مَفْعُولًا

"When thou saidst to him whom God has blessed and thou hadst favoured, 'Keep thy wife to thyself; and fear God', and thou wast concealing within thyself what God should reveal, fearing other men; and God has better right for thee to fear Him. So when Zaid had accomplished what he would of her, then We gave her in marriage to thee, so that there should not be any fault in the believers, touching the wives of their adopted son, when they had accomplished what they would of them; and God's commandment must be performed." (Sura al-Ahzab 33:37)[156]
:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: Yuhs ah lying fack!! who ever wrote this is ah bigger a$$ than you! first of all bone head, zaynab was muhammad's relative, he known her all her life, he didn't need tuh go tuh zaids house tuh see zaynab when probably he was the one who performed their marriage in the first place!

go back on line and get some more missleading half truths yuh disgruntled troll! :devil:

BTW didn't i just mentioned that sura to you, and BTW , i doh see nothing where zaid was ordered tuh devorce her! yuh really tying up yuh own self now buddy boy! yuh going round in circles. :loser:
« Last Edit: April 01, 2010, 06:42:49 PM by just cool »
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Re: Death penalty for gays?
« Reply #42 on: December 16, 2009, 07:26:50 PM »
Breds is Arab scholars who say that divorce is not pleasing to Allah, not me..I wasn't dey when de man was marrying 6 years chirren and writing suras to cover he deeds.

As I said, this is a forum, if I put my ideas and thoughts, and yuh doh like dem...doh respond...BUT if yuh choose to respond, do so logically.

De man was he adopted son...he then changed the sura to say that thye should keep their blood lines and names and dat yuh could marry in dat case..it was not so before he marry de man wife.

Regardless if there are 20 suras dedicated to divorce, the fact is there is one saying it is evil and not pleasing to Allah...so which should I believe?


Quote
Allah, in His infinite, wisdom, recognized that some people would be ill-suited for one another. Rather than force them to live together in a farce of a marriage, divorce is allowed. However, divorce is not something to be taken lightly; it is to be used as a last resort. In fact, getting a divorce without a valid reason is considered a sin. In a hadith reported by Abu Dawud, Prophet Mohammed (PBUH) said, "Among lawful things, divorce is most hated by Allah."
[/b]
So now yuh jumpin on something else now! what would you think of next! FYI aisha was 11 yrs old when she was promised too muhammad , and he consumated the marriage when she was 15, as you know, in those days that was acceptable, it was costomary for grown men to marry young women, if that was ah big deal then abu bakar would never gave his daughter aisha tuh muhammad!

mary was fifteen when she had jesus and joseph was well into his forties when he marired her. if you want tuh bring western modern day values to an ancient time, then keep wasting yuh time, as a matter of fact, that practice still goes on up till today in the east amongst muslims, jews and nonbelievers alike! and here i thought i was talking to ah man wid sense. :notlistening:
« Last Edit: December 16, 2009, 07:30:58 PM by just cool »
The pen is mightier than the sword, Africa for Africans home and abroad.Trinidad is not my home just a pit stop, Africa is my destination,final destination the MOST HIGH.

truetrini

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Re: Death penalty for gays?
« Reply #43 on: December 16, 2009, 07:30:32 PM »
she was 6 when promised and had sex with the prophet when she was 9!  Anyone who knows anything knows she was 9 years old when he had sex with her.  You can read her own words guy..She was still playing with dolls when he had her...and if yuh really know Islam yuh doh play with images etc. after yuh puberty!  Steups.

    Aisha:
    The Prophet engaged me when I was a girl of six (years). We went to Medina and stayed at the home of Bani-al-Harith bin Khazraj. Then I got ill and my hair fell down. Later on my hair grew (again) and my mother, Um Ruman, came to me while I was playing in a swing with some of my girl friends. She called me, and I went to her, not knowing what she wanted to do to me. She caught me by the hand and made me stand at the door of the house. I was breathless then, and when my breathing became all right, she took some water and rubbed my face and head with it. Then she took me into the house. There in the house I saw some Ansari women who said, "Best wishes and Allah's Blessing and a good luck." Then she entrusted me to them and they prepared me (for the marriage). Unexpectedly Allah's Apostle came to me in the forenoon and my mother handed me over to him, and at that time I was a girl of nine years of age. (Sahih al-Bukhari, Volume 5, Book 58, Number 234)

    Narrated 'Aisha:
    that the Prophet married her when she was six years old and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old, and then she remained with him for nine years (i.e., till his death). (Sahih al-Bukhari, Volume 7, Book 62, Number 64; see also Numbers 65 and 88)

A Muslim may say that, contrary to the opinion of Ibn Kathir and al-Shafi, the age of puberty cannot be fixed at fifteen since some girls attain puberty at a younger age. They may further argue that Aisha happened to attain puberty at nine, which means that she was lawful for Muhammad. The problem with this assertion is that it contradicts the express statements of specific Islamic sources that say that Aisha hadn’t attained puberty when Muhammad consummated his marriage with her:

    'A'isha (Allah be pleased with her) reported that Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) married her when she was seven years old, and he was taken to his house AS A BRIDE WHEN SHE WAS NINE, AND HER DOLLS WERE WITH HER; and when he (the Holy Prophet) died she was eighteen years old. (Sahih Muslim, Book 008, Number 3311)

The reason why Muhammad permitted Aisha to take her dolls to his house and play with them after their marriage was because she hadn’t reached puberty:

    Narrated 'Aisha:
    I used to play with the dolls in the presence of the Prophet, and my girl friends also used to play with me. When Allah's Apostle used to enter (my dwelling place) they used to hide themselves, but the Prophet would call them to join and play with me. (The playing with the dolls and similar images is forbidden, but it was allowed for 'Aisha at that time, as she was a little girl, NOT YET REACHED THE AGE OF PUBERTY.) (Fateh-al-Bari page 143, Vol.13) (Sahih Al-Bukhari, Volume 8, Book 73, Number 151)







Now address my position on embryology and The Big Bang...if you can!
« Last Edit: December 16, 2009, 07:37:40 PM by Trinity Cross »

Offline just cool

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Re: Death penalty for gays?
« Reply #44 on: December 16, 2009, 07:39:08 PM »
she was 6 when promised and had sex with the prophet when she was 9!  Anyone who knows anything knows she was 9 years old when he had sex with her.  You can read her own words guy..She was still playing with dolls when he had her...and if yuh really know Islam yuh doh play with images etc. after yuh puberty!  Steups.

Now address my position on embryology and The Big Bang...if you can!
Bigger lie! she was 10 or eleven when promised, and some say 14 some say 15 when they consumated the marriage! ah tell yuh fella, the the hadith was writen 300 yrs after muhammad, and it's ah fact that there was over 200,000 hadith gathered, and most of them were daif(doubtful) fellas was making up shit, some was plain ole malicious Bc muhammad was hated, since he change the whole pagan culture that was loved by the proud arabs of those days. and a lot of the jews of that day had tuh pay the jizziah tax and they hated muhammad and islam for it, so i does take hadith with ah grain of salt and ah tank of water.
The pen is mightier than the sword, Africa for Africans home and abroad.Trinidad is not my home just a pit stop, Africa is my destination,final destination the MOST HIGH.

truetrini

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Re: Death penalty for gays?
« Reply #45 on: December 16, 2009, 07:48:36 PM »
she was 6 when promised and had sex with the prophet when she was 9!  Anyone who knows anything knows she was 9 years old when he had sex with her.  You can read her own words guy..She was still playing with dolls when he had her...and if yuh really know Islam yuh doh play with images etc. after yuh puberty!  Steups.

Now address my position on embryology and The Big Bang...if you can!
Bigger lie! she was 10 or eleven when promised, and some say 14 some say 15 when they consumated the marriage! ah tell yuh fella, the the hadith was writen 300 yrs after muhammad, and it's ah fact that there was over 200,000 hadith gathered, and most of them were daif(doubtful) fellas was making up shit, some was plain ole malicious Bc muhammad was hated, since he change the whole pagan culture that was loved by the proud arabs of those days. and a lot of the jews of that day had tuh pay the jizziah tax and they hated muhammad and islam for it, so i does take hadith with ah grain of salt and ah tank of water.

Not true, all the evidence shows she was a mere child, why else would her friends hide?  Why would her mother have to wash her face?  Why was she surprised when he took his pants off?  Why would she be playing with dolls?

You lie and the apologists lie.

he married a little child!  And worse he screwed her!   Whjy did he wait 3 years to sex her?  Becasue she was 6 years old! 


Quote
Sahih Muslim Book 008, Number 3310:
'A'isha (Allah be pleased with her) reported: Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) married me when I was six years old, and I was admitted to his house when I was nine years old.

Sahih Bukhari Volume 7, Book 62, Number 64
Narrated 'Aisha:
that the Prophet married her when she was six years old and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old, and then she remained with him for nine years (i.e., till his death).

Sahih Bukhari Volume 7, Book 62, Number 65
Narrated 'Aisha:
that the Prophet married her when she was six years old and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old. Hisham said: I have been informed that 'Aisha remained with the Prophet for nine years (i.e. till his death)." what you know of the Quran (by heart)'

Sahih Bukhari Volume 7, Book 62, Number 88
Narrated 'Ursa:
The Prophet wrote the (marriage contract) with 'Aisha while she was six years old and consummated his marriage with her while she was nine years old and she remained with him for nine years (i.e. till his death).

Some Muslims claim that it was Abu Bakr who approached Muhammad asking him to marry his daughter. This is of course not true and here is the proof.

Sahih Bukhari 7.18
Narrated 'Ursa:
The Prophet asked Abu Bakr for 'Aisha's hand in marriage. Abu Bakr said "But I am your brother." The Prophet said, "You are my brother in Allah's religion and His Book, but she (Aisha) is lawful for me to marry."

Arabs were a primitive lot with little rules to abide. Yet they had some code of ethics that they honored scrupulously. For example, although they fought all the year round, they abstained from hostilities during certain holy months of the year. They also considered Mecca to be a holy city and did not make war against it. A adopted son’s wife was deemed to be a daughter in law and they would not marry her. Also it was customary that close friends made a pact of brotherhood and considered each other as true brothers. The Prophet disregarded all of these rules anytime they stood between him and his interests or whims.

Abu Bakr and Muhammad had pledged to each other to be brothers. So according to their costoms Ayesha was supposed to be like a niece to the Holy Prophet. Yet that did not stop him to ask her hand even when she was only six years old.
[/b]

truetrini

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Re: Death penalty for gays?
« Reply #46 on: December 16, 2009, 07:52:08 PM »
In fact most Muslims agree she was 9!  hey have excuses though, saying girls in hot climates mature faster etc.

http://www.muhammadanism.org/Hadith/Topics/Marriage.htm
« Last Edit: December 16, 2009, 08:01:08 PM by Trinity Cross »

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Re: Death penalty for gays?
« Reply #47 on: December 17, 2009, 04:37:55 AM »
In fact most Muslims agree she was 9!  hey have excuses though, saying girls in hot climates mature faster etc.

http://www.muhammadanism.org/Hadith/Topics/Marriage.htm

Let me ask u something, lets say maybe 100 years ago how many people in trini married in their early teens and it was the norm. Dont you think that 1400 years ago that someone to marry at "9" was acceptable due to the development of the human being? What is the purpose of menstruating and what does it represent?

YOu're the one who says morals are societal, but on the same hand u want to say that the islamic society is wrong? If i go along with your thinking about the base of morals, what makes your society right whilst another is wrong or is it only religious societal morals count for nothing? If societies in the states were racists and lynched african people, if i go along with your line of thinking, how can u say they are wrong since morals are relative to their society? Sorry, in this instance I think you want to have your cake and eat it to.



"Giving away something in charity does not cause any decrease in a person's wealth, but increases it instead. The person who adopt humility for the sake of Allah is exalted in ranks by Him".
(Muslim)

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Re: Death penalty for gays?
« Reply #48 on: December 17, 2009, 04:49:59 AM »


I also have a hard time rationalizing the level of brainwashing these Mullahs and Imams have over their charges that they can strap bombs on their bodies and shout God is Great while detonating themselves.  The despair, the frustration, the hatred, the bitterness that they have in their hearts.

but remember these guys believe that they are fighting Jihad, and ONE SURE WAY TO GET INTO PARADISE ACCORDING TO THE KORAN....IS THRU JIHAD!  Otherwise all other people enter hell first!  SO these young men, with no future as they can see, decide to die and enter into God's presence where they will be rewarded with 29(/) virgins and eternal bliss.

The guys sending them never seem to contemplate strapping the bombs on their bodies though! 

Somehow i get the impression that u dont recognize the nature of the environment that these live in and come from as the motivating factor in the bombings and u are only linking their actions to the Quran. What would make a person from the IRA blow up a building, surely is not Jihad? or a hindu in india blow up a mosque surely it is not quran?
"Giving away something in charity does not cause any decrease in a person's wealth, but increases it instead. The person who adopt humility for the sake of Allah is exalted in ranks by Him".
(Muslim)

truetrini

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Re: Death penalty for gays?
« Reply #49 on: December 17, 2009, 05:16:30 AM »
In fact most Muslims agree she was 9!  hey have excuses though, saying girls in hot climates mature faster etc.

http://www.muhammadanism.org/Hadith/Topics/Marriage.htm

Let me ask u something, lets say maybe 100 years ago how many people in trini married in their early teens and it was the norm. Dont you think that 1400 years ago that someone to marry at "9" was acceptable due to the development of the human being? What is the purpose of menstruating and what does it represent?

YOu're the one who says morals are societal, but on the same hand u want to say that the islamic society is wrong? If i go along with your thinking about the base of morals, what makes your society right whilst another is wrong or is it only religious societal morals count for nothing? If societies in the states were racists and lynched african people, if i go along with your line of thinking, how can u say they are wrong since morals are relative to their society? Sorry, in this instance I think you want to have your cake and eat it to.





Yes I hear you loud and clear.  it was very wrong at that time too.  That was NOT their norm 1500 years ago.  A woman had to reach puberty and usually that was a fact.  Also if you know anything about societal norms at the time, you did not marry a child.  She was playing with her dolls, and swings and her child friends.  

You are looking for excuses, at least you are not trying to hide the fact that he married a 9 year old.  In fact a prepubescent 9 year old!

According to culture,at the time she must have been a CHILD still as she played with dolls!  Dolls were reserved for CHILDREN alone.  At 15 you were considered an adult!  It had nothing to do with menstruation as you put it.

As for having my cake and eating it too, thats your doing...or maybe you are agreeing with me that morality has nothing to do with a God or gods, but is societal.

And be careful if you agree.


"Narrated 'Aisha: I used to play with the dolls in the presence of the Prophet, and my girl friends also used to play with me. When Allah's Apostle used to enter they used to hide themselves, but the Prophet would call them to join and play with me. (The playing with the dolls and similar images is forbidden, but it was allowed for 'Aisha at that time, as she was a little girl, not yet reached the age of puberty.) (Fateh-al-Bari page 143, Vol.13)"


I think if you research instead of having BLIND faith you will learn a lot more than merely listening to the parroting of "teachings."

He had sex with a mere child!

Society at the time did not condone marrying 9 year olds, nor did Islam which considered playing with dolls as an adult is considered shirk!

Try this, I have many more Hadiths and writings from the girl child herself indicating she did not reach her period until she was 14!


*************************
I clearly understand the situation under which these young men live.  I know how deep and how desperate their situations are!  Indeed, my qualms are not because these men are hurting, often living under despotic rulers, backed by western governments, I have a beef with the RELIGION that condones these actions.  I also take issue with the IRA, The Basque separatists and the Hindu fanatics who not only blow up mosques, but christian churches as well!

You miss my point, maybe because you are blind to the truth?

I am not merely linking their actions to the Koran, but also to the men who extrapolate info from the Koran and convince these men to kill themselves and others.

Do you really believe that these men will enter Paradise according to what they are made to believe?  Do you really think that IF there is such a kind and compassionate god that he holds these beliefs as good and beneficial that he rewards these  so called "martyrs" with immediate passage into Paradise as well as bestowing upon them virgins?

Can a spirit have sex?  lol

You surely jest!  It is not only Islam that I take issue with, it is ALL religious leaders that use God to blind men, causing them to lose sight of their humanity and wantonly kill.

I understand that these men don't have an army, an airforce, or a navy to fight their wars, but religion is used as a form of governance, and intolerance is a prime component of many religions.

If you are a Hindu, you think thats the real religion and you burn mosques and other places of worship that is non-Hindu in India, in fact they are VERY intolerant there..as in VERY!

If you are Muslim, you alone are Allah's chosen there is much contradiction in the Koran about who will enter heaven!)  And many other religions are expelled, in fact it is against the law to proselytize if you are a christian or any other religion in MOST Muslim states...jail, death etc is your lot if you dare!

Catholics in their dogma teach that all others are accursed, and doomed to hell.  it is there for all who want to learn the truth.  Many see the fake love and think all is well, research the dogma and learn the truth about that "religion."

Fundamentalist Christians believe that Jesus is Lord and no one else, that somehow you can have 3 Gods in one.  Does that mean when Jesus was crucified that god died?  How can god die?  And when was Jesus made God be the christian church? was he always God according to early christian teachings?  Surprisingly no!

The teachings of Islam make men kill in the name of Allah, and it is not justified.  Fight off oppression, kill the tyrants, but not innocents.  Strapping a bomb on your person and detonating it is haram!  The men who convince others to do so are cowardly, as they NEVER seem to become suicide bomber themselves.

Another thing, do you see or hear about Hindu militants attacking and killing others outside of their own countries?  Same with the IRA when they were bombing?

« Last Edit: December 17, 2009, 05:27:52 AM by Trinity Cross »

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Re: Death penalty for gays?
« Reply #50 on: December 17, 2009, 09:05:05 PM »
In fact most Muslims agree she was 9!  hey have excuses though, saying girls in hot climates mature faster etc.

http://www.muhammadanism.org/Hadith/Topics/Marriage.htm

Let me ask u something, lets say maybe 100 years ago how many people in trini married in their early teens and it was the norm. Dont you think that 1400 years ago that someone to marry at "9" was acceptable due to the development of the human being? What is the purpose of menstruating and what does it represent?

YOu're the one who says morals are societal, but on the same hand u want to say that the islamic society is wrong? If i go along with your thinking about the base of morals, what makes your society right whilst another is wrong or is it only religious societal morals count for nothing? If societies in the states were racists and lynched african people, if i go along with your line of thinking, how can u say they are wrong since morals are relative to their society? Sorry, in this instance I think you want to have your cake and eat it to.




Don't for ah minuite believe that sammy!!!! this man is ah forkin liar!!! the truth iz, muhammad did not marry aisha @ 6, or 9, she was promissed to him @ 9, then when she was 12 he went to live with him , he never touched aisha till she was 15 going on 16, two yrs before his death, just read up on the tabakat kubra, it's ah more earlier version than bukhari or sahi muslims! like i said to this demon before, the hadith especially bukhari and sahi muslims has ah lot of lies on the prophet.

if yuh want ah better account of hadiths then read al kaffi or tabakat kubra, or even the sera of ibn isac. this fella just looking for any way tuh discredit any form of divine belief. first he started wid cristianity then he moved on tuh islam, but what he didn't cater for was that ppl would not just swallow what he posted without rebutle.

first he came wid the argument that muhammad marry his son's wife, not knowing that it have ppl who know the story, and when i mentioned to him that zaid was not muhammad's son, but ah yute he raised from the age of 12. which was the FIRST LIE:rotfl: :devil:

then he when he saw he couldn't win that argument, he then came wid the arguement that muhammad stole zaid's wife from him, he then said how muhammad went to zaid's house on business and saw zaynab and fell in love wid her beauty and ordered zaid tuh devorce her so he could marry her, not knowing that zaynab was muhammad's cousin, and he knew zaynab all her life and he didn't have tuh go tuh zaid's house tuh see zaynab , insinuating that it was the first time he saw zaynab. so the forker get catch in the SECOND LIE! :rotfl: :devil:

then he said how muhammad ORDERED zaid to devorce zaynab, and then he (muhammad) married her soon afterwards claiming that muhammad invented a verse in the quran tuh achieve his agender, but little did the forker know that muhammad married zaynab yrs after zaid devorced her, and way after zaid was killed in one of the battles, i think it was the battle of uhud. THIRD LIE!! :shameonyou:

the next slander was how muhammad said devorce is hated by allah and how he said it was one of the permissable things that allah really hate, fine, then he went on tuh say muhammad enticed zaid tuh devorce knowing devorce is ah big no no, and it's offensive to the one muhammad claimed tuh serve, but he never cater for the sura 65 AL TALAK! IT'S AH WHOLE SURA DEDICATED TO DEVORCE and ironically the word TALAK MEANS DEVORCE! this sura regulates and stpiulate how devorce should be carried out, and all the legalities of devorce. FOURTH SLANDER! :bs:

ALL THIS TIME HE SLANDERED MUHAMMAD HE NEVER RENDERED AN APOLOGY FOR HIS MISSREPRESENTATION ON THE ZAID AND ZAYNAD SAGA.

then after he got duss out wid the zaid argument, as if i didn't know, he would then come wid the aisha saga, that is every muslim bashers trump card, how muhammad  married aisha @ six and rape the little girl @ nine! and then run on line tuh get hadith tuh back up his case, that's the same man who would not believe a single hadith if it backed up the islamic argument , but he believes the ones that slanders the prophet who the hadith is written of.

but what this joker don't know iz it have hundreds of thousands of hadith, and most of them are bogus, especially the ones in sahi muslims and sahi bukhari. bukhari was ah turkish iranian russian who never met muhammad, nor anyone from the next generation(tabaien) or even 5 generation there after! as ah matter of fact, bukhari came 300 yrs after muhammad lived!

when bukhari started collecting hadith, it was 300 yrs later. do you know how many inaccurate accounts could be narrated after 300 yrs. not only that , but after the death of muhammad the ummah(muslim community) was split amongst themselves, some followed the power hungry sahabi's(companions of muhammad) and some followed the ahlilbait( family of muhammad).

it's ah known fact that when the umayad dynasty ruled arabia, they not only killed and hunted the family and close friends of muhammad, but they also made up lies and slandered muhammad and his family's name. even he muhammad said that after he died ppl would make up loads of lies on him and would slander his name.

yazid and muhawiya ordered a lot of hadiths written, and also slandered ali, hassan and hussein, that's why it is said that abu bakar, omar, uthman, and ali was the four rightly guided caliphs, implying that after them , it was unsure of the character of the fellas that followed, and right after ali was muhawiya who was ah member of the omayad klann , and it's no secret that muhammad was from the hashim klan, and the omayad klann was bitter rivals to the bani hashim.

if yuh go to the tabakat kubra yuh would see that muhammad was promised aisha when she was 9, and she married him @ 12 and went tuh live wid him and his other wives, and muhammad never consumate the marriage until aisha completed two yrs after pubity, that was when she was 15/16 two yrs before his death.

it would also state that abu baker was the one who gave his daughter aisha to muhammad and not the other way around. the wives of muhammad was advised not to devluge any information about muhammad or even private stuff like his sex life, do you really believe that aisha would talk about how muhammad's private looked like and describe the interlude to the public, when ppl who are performing a janaza bath( washing the dead) can't even look @ the dead person's private parts, it's covered and not exposed while they are washed under a covering, and the ppl involve cannot devulge no information of the deceased while they were being washed, but aisha would talk about the prophet like that??!

do you really think abu bakar would give his baby daughter to muhammad? when muhammad himself was told not to annoy or be harsh on his followers, or else they would abandon him. do you believe those stiff neck arab ppl would love and follow him after he supposedly slept with ah nine yr old girl ? i know i wont!

yuh can't see all the info he coming wid came from the book satanic verses! just by the things he addressed lead me to think he eh know shyte about islam, and evey thing he came with was debated over time and time again. Tijani assamarwi has a book called" ask those who know", all this nonsense he coming with was debated over and debunked yrs ago, since before salman rashdie, as ah matter of fact the egyptian  orientalist has been staunch opponents of islam for centuries.

TT might be one of them, but he late like turtle going tuh church, that argument is ah day late and ah dollar short. you eh see he eh have no life! his life is tuh come here and malign ppl's faith with each waking day, he's ah :loser:!
« Last Edit: December 17, 2009, 09:18:17 PM by just cool »
The pen is mightier than the sword, Africa for Africans home and abroad.Trinidad is not my home just a pit stop, Africa is my destination,final destination the MOST HIGH.

truetrini

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Re: Death penalty for gays?
« Reply #51 on: December 17, 2009, 09:37:15 PM »
hahahahahahaha yuh is ah real joker JC....de man marry and sex a little child.

Below is the passage from the Quran on the event of his marriage to HIS SON!!!  Incidentally until AFTER Mohammad had married his son Zaid's wife the son was called : Zayd bin Muhammad   After Mohammad married his son's wife the man was then called Zayd bin Harithah  cehck it he was called Zaid son of Mohammad before the marrigae and after ...lol   

You said to the man whom God and yourself have favored: ‘Keep your wife and have fear of God.’ You sought to hide in your heart what God was to reveal. You were afraid of man, although it would have been more proper to fear God. And when Zayd divorced his wife, We gave her to you in marriage, so that it should become legitimate for true believers to wed the wives of their adopted sons if they divorced them. God’s will must needs be done. No blame shall be attached to the Prophet for doing what is sanctioned for him by God. Such was the way of God with the prophets who passed away before him (God’s decrees are pre-ordained); who fulfilled the mission with which God had charged them, fearing God and fearing none beside Him. Sufficient is God’s reckoning. The Confederate Tribes, 33:37, 38 Dawood.

Sam Shamoun summarizes Muhammad’s justification and trite excuse, found above, and presents two significant problems with the Quran’s pretext:

According to the Quran itself Allah caused Muhammad to have desires for another man’s wife, namely his adopted son Zaid ibn Haritha’s spouse Zaynab bint Jash. This led to his adopted son divorcing her so that Muhammad could marry her. The alleged reason why Allah commanded this to happen was so that Muhammad could set the example for others to emulate, making it permissible for adoptive fathers to marry their adopted children’s divorcees:

The other problem with this marriage is that shortly after it took place Allah abolished the practice of adoption completely:

God has not assigned to any man two hearts within his breast; nor has He made your wives, when you divorce, saying, ‘Be as my mother’s back,’ truly your mothers, neither has He made your adopted sons your sons in fact. That is your own saying, the words of your mouths; but God speaks the truth, and guides on the way. Call them after their true fathers; that is more equitable in the sight of God. If you know not who their fathers were, then they are your brothers in religion, and your clients. There is no fault in you if you make mistakes, but only in what your hearts premeditate. God is All-forgiving, All-compassionate. S. 33:4-5


By the way, Salman Rushdie has more credibility in his little toe than you have in your entire body!  He wrote a piece of fiction and allyuh act like he call allyuh fakes.

I CALLING ALLYUH MODDER c**tS FAKES!

The Satanic Verses is nutten to do about Islam..nutten.  I bet you have never read it or else yuh weon't be talking shit that you can get facts from it..steups..dunce ass follower and bullshitter.
« Last Edit: December 17, 2009, 09:56:01 PM by Trinity Cross »

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Re: Death penalty for gays?
« Reply #52 on: December 18, 2009, 02:11:12 AM »
hahahahahahaha yuh is ah real joker JC....de man marry and sex a little child.

Below is the passage from the Quran on the event of his marriage to HIS SON!!!  Incidentally until AFTER Mohammad had married his son Zaid's wife the son was called : Zayd bin Muhammad   After Mohammad married his son's wife the man was then called Zayd bin Harithah  cehck it he was called Zaid son of Mohammad before the marrigae and after ...lol   

You said to the man whom God and yourself have favored: ‘Keep your wife and have fear of God.’ You sought to hide in your heart what God was to reveal. You were afraid of man, although it would have been more proper to fear God. And when Zayd divorced his wife, We gave her to you in marriage, so that it should become legitimate for true believers to wed the wives of their adopted sons if they divorced them. God’s will must needs be done. No blame shall be attached to the Prophet for doing what is sanctioned for him by God. Such was the way of God with the prophets who passed away before him (God’s decrees are pre-ordained); who fulfilled the mission with which God had charged them, fearing God and fearing none beside Him. Sufficient is God’s reckoning. The Confederate Tribes, 33:37, 38 Dawood.

Sam Shamoun summarizes Muhammad’s justification and trite excuse, found above, and presents two significant problems with the Quran’s pretext:

According to the Quran itself Allah caused Muhammad to have desires for another man’s wife, namely his adopted son Zaid ibn Haritha’s spouse Zaynab bint Jash. This led to his adopted son divorcing her so that Muhammad could marry her. The alleged reason why Allah commanded this to happen was so that Muhammad could set the example for others to emulate, making it permissible for adoptive fathers to marry their adopted children’s divorcees:

The other problem with this marriage is that shortly after it took place Allah abolished the practice of adoption completely:

God has not assigned to any man two hearts within his breast; nor has He made your wives, when you divorce, saying, ‘Be as my mother’s back,’ truly your mothers, neither has He made your adopted sons your sons in fact. That is your own saying, the words of your mouths; but God speaks the truth, and guides on the way. Call them after their true fathers; that is more equitable in the sight of God. If you know not who their fathers were, then they are your brothers in religion, and your clients. There is no fault in you if you make mistakes, but only in what your hearts premeditate. God is All-forgiving, All-compassionate. S. 33:4-5


By the way, Salman Rushdie has more credibility in his little toe than you have in your entire body!  He wrote a piece of fiction and allyuh act like he call allyuh fakes.

I CALLING ALLYUH MODDER c**tS FAKES!

The Satanic Verses is nutten to do about Islam..nutten.  I bet you have never read it or else yuh weon't be talking shit that you can get facts from it..steups..dunce ass follower and bullshitter.
I really feel you retarded or yuh dislexic or something! where did you see the quran mention that allah caused muhammad tuh have desires for zaid's wife? this is the reason i don't like tuh discourse wid you, BC when yuh get duss out yuh does still continue wid yuh lying!

listen fella , doh waste my time! i dun show yuh where zaid divorced the woman and had time move on wid his life, then died in one of the battles, and after that muhammad married tuh her! even the verse in the quran says "and when zaid divorced his wife we gave her to you". 

that verse came down BC according arab costom back then ah man should not marry his son's wife. it was also an arab costom tuh bury their girl children alive if they felt like it, or wirship idols and eat pork, and women used tuh dress with their breast un covered, but muhammad changed all that, so what's the big deal when he changed the law that fathers could marry their adopted son's wives?
 
 zaid was not his son, but ah slave of his deceased wife khadijah. her brother bought zaid in the market place and gave him to her, then when muhammad married khadijah  he freed him and the boy became attached to muhammad so ppl started calling him zaid ibn muhammad, when in fact the boy was ah slave tuh his wife khadijah and not some kid he raised from small as his own.

as a matter of fact,muhammad was the one who insisted that zaynab married zaid, but zaynab and her brother was against marrying ah slave boy, and as yuh know the marriage was arranged, but zaynab did not like zaid very much, and zaid used to complain tuh muhammad about zaynab's treatment of him and how he wanted tuh devorce her, but muhammad encouraged him tuh stick it out, finally zaid decided he wanted out of the marriage.

it was zaynab who wanted tuh marry muhammad and not the other way around. tha hadith that you quote about muhammad seeing zaynab through the open door was ah lie, he knew zaynab all his life,after all she was the daughter of his aunt umaimah.

but of course you wouldn't know this BC yuh never read the tafsir, all yuh wanted tuh accomplish was slander, but in fact yuh never really try tuh know the real, but rather embrace the slander so yuh could malaign muhammad.

imagine you callin me ah joker, when you can't even present an argument based on SOLID unadulterated facts! :loser:
The pen is mightier than the sword, Africa for Africans home and abroad.Trinidad is not my home just a pit stop, Africa is my destination,final destination the MOST HIGH.

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Re: Death penalty for gays?
« Reply #53 on: December 18, 2009, 05:24:58 AM »
Sammy, check this out. an article on aisha's supposed age of engagement and consumation. and an overview of his dealing wid zaynab bint jahsh

http://www.muslim.org/islam/aisha-age.htm
http://www.fountainmagazine.com/article.php?ARTICLEID=1026
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhammad%27s_wives
« Last Edit: December 18, 2009, 07:21:17 AM by just cool »
The pen is mightier than the sword, Africa for Africans home and abroad.Trinidad is not my home just a pit stop, Africa is my destination,final destination the MOST HIGH.

truetrini

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Re: Death penalty for gays?
« Reply #54 on: December 18, 2009, 09:04:33 AM »
Sammy, check this out. an article on aisha's supposed age of engagement and consumation. and an overview of his dealing wid zaynab bint jahsh

http://www.muslim.org/islam/aisha-age.htm
http://www.fountainmagazine.com/article.php?ARTICLEID=1026
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhammad%27s_wives

Yeah Sammy check his references..especially this one:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhammad%27s_wives


Married to Aisha

Aisha was six or seven years old when betrothed to Muhammad. She stayed in her parents' home until the age of nine, when the marriage was consummated in Medina.[12][14][15][16] Both Aisha and Sawda, his two wives, were given apartments adjoined to the Al-Masjid al-Nabawi mosque.[13] Muhammad wished to divorce Sawda, who offered to give her turn of Muhammad's conjugal visit to Aisha to prevent this.[17]

See also this link:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aisha


When doing your research you will see that the Koran was written piece meal and not in its entirety (all at once)

Revelations came to suit occurrences.  It is a fact, for example when Aisha was accused of adultery, Mohammad got a revelation that rebuked her accusers and gave them 40 lashes each!    Fella don't beleive any and everything they trow at you, research and come to your own conclusion.

If some book comes along and tells you fire is cool, yuh go jes believe it?  When your own experiences and your own common sense shows it to be hot?

Jes doh believe ANYTHING, science, religious books nutten..test them first!

Take this for what it is worth:

Aisha played with dolls, it is shirk for adults to play with dolls, Mohammad played along with her and her friends.   She wrote many, many Hadiths that are held in high esteem by Muslim scholars to this day.

In her own Hadiths she said she was 6 when married and 9 when she had sexual relations with Mohammad!

Quote
Historians see Aisha as a learned woman, who tirelessly recounted stories from the life of Muhammad and explained Muslim history and traditions. She is considered to be one of the foremost scholars of Islam's early age with some historians accrediting up to one-quarter of the Islamic Sharia (Islamic religious law), based on the collection of hadiths, to have stemmed from her narrations. Aisha became the most prominent of Muhammad’s wives and is revered as a role model by millions of women.[9] Feminist writers such as Haleh Afshar have argued that Aisha provided a role model for women's political participation in Islamic communities, and that women became marginalized in Islamic polity following Aisha's defeat.[20]

Sammy, your assertion that child marriages were part of the culture then and there is valid, very valid.  Bedouin societyHistorians see Aisha as a learned woman, who tirelessly recounted stories from the life of Muhammad and explained Muslim history and traditions. She is considered to be one of the foremost scholars of Islam's early age with some historians accrediting up to one-quarter of the Islamic Sharia (Islamic religious law), based on the collection of hadiths, to have stemmed from her narrations. Aisha became the most prominent of Muhammad’s wives and is revered as a role model by millions of women.[9] Feminist writers such as Haleh Afshar have argued that Aisha provided a role model for women's political participation in Islamic communities, and that women became marginalized in Islamic polity following Aisha's defeat.[20] had allowed such for a long time.  I also beleive that back then, like even in the WILD wEST IN THE us, CHILDREN TENDED TO MATURE FASTER.  tHAT still DOES NOT LINE UP WITH kORANIC GUIDELINES....THEREIN LIES MY PROBLEM!


rEAD HER OWN hADITH,S DON'T LET ANYONE SAY THAT THEY ARE FAKE, SHE IS A FOREMOST LEADER FOR ISLAMIC WOMEN, and well respected as noted above!


Bukhari
Volume 5, Book 58, Number 234:
Narrated Aisha:
The Prophet engaged me when I was a girl of six (years). We went to Medina and stayed at the home of Bani-al-Harith bin Khazraj. Then I got ill and my hair fell down. Later on my hair grew (again) and my mother, Um Ruman, came to me while I was playing in a swing with some of my girl friends. She called me, and I went to her, not knowing what she wanted to do to me. She caught me by the hand and made me stand at the door of the house. I was breathless then, and when my breathing became Allright, she took some water and rubbed my face and head with it. Then she took me into the house. There in the house I saw some Ansari women who said, “Best wishes and Allah’s Blessing and a good luck.” Then she entrusted me to them and they prepared me (for the marriage). Unexpectedly Allah’s Apostle came to me in the forenoon and my mother handed me over to him, and at that time I was a girl of nine years of age.

Volume 5, Book 58, Number 236:
Narrated Hisham’s father:
Khadija died three years before the Prophet departed to Medina.. He stayed there for two years or so and then he married ‘Aisha when she was a girl of six years of age, and he consumed that marriage when she was nine years old.

Volume 7, Book 62, Number 118:
Narrated ‘Ursa:
Aisha said, “While the Ethiopians were playing with their small spears, Allah’s Apostle screened me behind him and I watched (that display) and kept on watching till I left on my own.” So you may estimate of what age a little girl may listen to amusement.

Volume 7, Book 62, Number 163:
Narrated ‘Aisha:
The Prophet was screening me with his Rida’ (garment covering the upper part of the body) while I was looking at the Ethiopians who were playing in the courtyard of the mosque. (I continued watching) till I was satisfied. So you may deduce from this event how a little girl (who has not reached the age of puberty) who is eager to enjoy amusement should be treated in this respect..

Volume 8, Book 73, Number 151:
Narrated ‘Aisha:
I used to play with the dolls in the presence of the Prophet, and my girl friends also used to play with me. When Allah’s Apostle used to enter (my dwelling place) they used to hide themselves, but the Prophet would call them to join and play with me. (The playing with the dolls and similar images is forbidden, but it was allowed for ‘Aisha at that time, as she was a little girl, not yet reached the age of puberty.) (Fateh-al-Bari page 143, Vol.13)

Offline just cool

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Re: Death penalty for gays?
« Reply #55 on: December 18, 2009, 07:24:24 PM »
Mr true lair...oh sorry true trini, you could believe what yuh want tuh believe , that's your right, but i know better. all those daif hadith you quoting is fabricated tuh slander muhammad , but telling you dat is like talking tuh all stone wall in ah deaf city! since i've already told you so many times. bottom line, ppl see what they want tuh see and believe what they want tuh believe without nesessarily seeking out the truth.

yuh think this is the first time i've seen or heard this argument? this is nothing new, it's been ah subject for debate for centuries.that and so much more incriminating sh!t! and the scolars who know negated and showed the facts of how these hadiths were forged, but it serves your purpose and the purpose of many others, so believe on.

 muawiahya and yazid hated muhammad and his family, and wrote tons of evil shyte about them and passed it off as hadith. plus there was the jews of yathrib who hated him equally, and also slandered and malign him just as bad in the form of hadith and street slander.

it even have hadith that said muhammad liked french kissing young boys, and the list goes on! as for the quran being revealed piece meal, yuh preaching tuh the chior.

doesn't mean muhammad used it for his own purpose. if muhammad wanted tuh be the king of arabia he could've easily been! he was that powerful and that influential, plus he was offered on many occasion the honor of being the head honcho of the arabian peninsula, and all he had tuh do was stop preaching this islam thing and he would've been in, but he bluntly refused!

 so why if he wanted tuh live ah wonton life go the religious route ? when he could've easily taken the simple route,and have his boys , little girls, his slaves, his status, wid big money involved BC of the trade routes that passed through there, plus the pilgrimage used tuh bring in buccaud income in the city he was born (mecca),?

why did he throw it all away tuh pray 7 times ah day, BC him being the prophet, his prayers was 7 instead of five, fasting in ramazan, live in poverty, that's BC when he fled mecca all his possesions were ceased as spoils, abandon drinking, not having the freedom tuh sex whom he wanted without appeasing no one, waking up early tuh pray, and all the hardships that goes with being ah devout worshiper?

that just don't make sense to me! if ah fella wanted tuh play all those games then the religious route would not be the way tuh do it, especially in that day and time, and not in that city and country.
« Last Edit: December 18, 2009, 07:42:53 PM by just cool »
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truetrini

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Re: Death penalty for gays?
« Reply #56 on: December 18, 2009, 09:46:22 PM »
No one, especially me, will argue that Mohammad was not a brilliant fella.  He was damn bright, astute and cunning.  Religion was a way to unite epople and bring order....I have no doubt that he MAY have felt he was really doing God's work.  He may have heard voices for all I know.

There would have been good reasons for the Jews to hate him especially as he slaughtered them frequently without provocation.

The Kora has many more contradictions than the Bible.  it does NOT address any meaningful science nor does it accurately describe anything remotely close to the Big Bang and Embryology!

The historical references are also frequently wrong. 

The FACT that Mohammad preached one thing and did another on MANY occasions is evident.

Does he hold a place in History as a most influential figure?  Most assuredly.  Was he a determined and extremely intelligent character?  Hell yes!

Did he really speak to God?  That is a matter of personal faith.  Based on the evidence...I personally doubt it!

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Re: Death penalty for gays?
« Reply #57 on: December 18, 2009, 10:36:37 PM »
No one, especially me, will argue that Mohammad was not a brilliant fella.  He was damn bright, astute and cunning.  Religion was a way to unite epople and bring order....I have no doubt that he MAY have felt he was really doing God's work.  He may have heard voices for all I know.

There would have been good reasons for the Jews to hate him especially as he slaughtered them frequently without provocation.

The Kora has many more contradictions than the Bible.  it does NOT address any meaningful science nor does it accurately describe anything remotely close to the Big Bang and Embryology!

The historical references are also frequently wrong. 

The FACT that Mohammad preached one thing and did another on MANY occasions is evident.

Does he hold a place in History as a most influential figure?  Most assuredly.  Was he a determined and extremely intelligent character?  Hell yes!

Did he really speak to God?  That is a matter of personal faith.  Based on the evidence...I personally doubt it!
He slaughtered jews unprovked?? like you never read anything about the life of muhammad or what??, i'm surprised sometimes how utterly naive you could be! bredder, the jews were the #1 agitators in yathrib!

they sided with the meccans tuh kill muhammad on countless occasions! FYI, muhammad was fleeing mecca from religious persecution and the threat of being killed, he then seeked refuge in yathrib(medina) where he had ah big following. and the rest of his followers fled to abyssinia where they were protected by the negus.

despite fleeing, the meccans still pursued them! all the way too abyssinia  and medina, that's how wicked and cruel they was! @ that time medina was over populated with jews fleeing roman persecution and found ah favorable city in medina.

when muhammad started spreading islam in yathrib, the jews didn't want no part of it , and became secret enemies to the muslim, all this time the meccans was still hunting and killing muslims, and had a price out on muhammad's head, that's when the revelation came down to him urging him too fight until persecution iz no more.

the jews then joined up wid the meccans and was fighting against the muslims, but they were in the back ground playing two sides, like they always do. that's when the sura munafiqun/ hypocrites was revealed.

many jews died yes, and so did many muslim and pagan meccans alike. but it wasn't un provoked as you said! it was war, and if yuh can't take the repercussions of war, then stay clear! 



as for muhammad not practicing what he preached being EVIDENT!!! ACCORDING TUH WHO??!! the orientalist, the west?? ah man who had so many enemies, especially in his ranks, who showed their hatred of him after his death when they tried to wipe out his whole family, i'm not surprised i don't hear more disgusting sh!t about him TBH.

i know one things for sure, if this man was as disgusting as ppl made him out to be, then why is his faith the largest in the world? and why did the arabs made so much strides after his death, going from some of the most unlearned disgusting ppl to leaders in science, medicine and astronomy?
The pen is mightier than the sword, Africa for Africans home and abroad.Trinidad is not my home just a pit stop, Africa is my destination,final destination the MOST HIGH.

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Re: Death penalty for gays?
« Reply #58 on: December 18, 2009, 11:26:46 PM »
fella, my goal is not to disprove anything.  You trying to prove something to me!

Mohammed had a habit of writing scripture to suit his actions..like the time he sent his men to rob travellers.  Justifyinmg his actions after the fact.  run by yuh frens dem to correct me, Mohammed was told by an angel to have his son (adopted) to divorce his wife so he could marry her!

Suras in the Quran does convientently pop up so  Mohammed can justify his actions. e.g, when he wanted his adopted son's wife, he suddenly get a revelation from Allah declaring it right to take another man's wife. When he wanted to stop his wives from quarreling or to accept more wives, he got a quick revelation for that too.  If yuh know de history most ah dem revelations come AFTER he do he do!

Also, throughout the Koran, the history is all wrong...that is the chain of events not chronological at all.

Yuh like to sayu how scientific the Koran is, Like when He say Allah created mountains to stop the earthquakes?

Or when he wrote the moon was a light like the sun?  Or maybe when he talk about the stars and say they were darts to throw at demons?

Or when Mohammed say de sun does set in a muddy pool? Or what about de ants and dem that did talk to Solomon?

Or when he talk about the Pyramids and dem?

Haman - A minister of the Pharoah?
(Koran 28:8)
...For Pharaoh and Haman and all their hosts were Men of sin.

(Koran 28:38)
...therefore, O haman! light me a klin to bake bricks
out of clay, and build me a loftly palace...

Here the man and de Koran clearly imply dat Haman and de Pharaoh exist at de same time and place. But History tells we odderwise. The Pharaoh lived during the time of Moses and Haman served as a minister of Ahasuerus (Xerxes I). The Koranic verse in this case contains not only an error in location, but also an error of time as well (1,000 years).

Once again the Koran proves to us that Mohammed had no real knowledge of History, is either dat or de angels misguided him?
Breds it's ah known fact amongst geologist that the mountains do stablize the earth, the crust of the earth is the thinest sector, and it flaots on liqid molten lava.here's dr naik on this subject. @ minuite 6:25 of the lecture= http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Brpwcl51bnU&feature=related

Breds , no way did the quran says the moon has it's own light, here's dr naik again. the subject starts @ min, 5:30 = http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_eGrTOzzOyI

about the ants and solomon,here's another lecture about that subject.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wtSuMXGwOHY&feature=related

As for haman, bredder please!  since when you reading the story of ruth in the bible tuh legitimize your claim? so BC it had ah harman in persia in 300 BC , that means he ws the said haman in the quran? first off , i'm sure they did not have one solitary haman in the world, and i'm pretty sure that the haman in moses time was ah builder and not ah minisiter, and even if he was, i don't see the connection , except for a name. come on you could do better than that!
« Last Edit: December 18, 2009, 11:54:03 PM by just cool »
The pen is mightier than the sword, Africa for Africans home and abroad.Trinidad is not my home just a pit stop, Africa is my destination,final destination the MOST HIGH.

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Re: Death penalty for gays?
« Reply #59 on: December 19, 2009, 12:22:35 AM »
all de apologist who making things up to justify the errors in the Koran cannot hide the truth!

The Historical record is clear, as there are many more inconsistencies in teh Koran as there are in the Bible!

If you acknoledge that the Koran was written piecemeal..whats the reason for Ramadan and Eid again?
« Last Edit: December 19, 2009, 12:25:51 AM by Trinity Cross »