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Offline triniairman

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Radio Frequencies Help Burn Salt Water
« on: September 11, 2007, 05:14:42 PM »
Radio Frequencies Help Burn Salt Water
By David Templeton, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette

Tue, 11 Sep 2007, 11:41AM

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ERIE, Pa. - An Erie cancer researcher has found a way to burn salt water, a novel invention that is being touted by one chemist as the "most remarkable" water science discovery in a century.

John Kanzius happened upon the discovery accidentally when he tried to desalinate seawater with a radio-frequency generator he developed to treat cancer. He discovered that as long as the salt water was exposed to the radio frequencies, it would burn.

The discovery has scientists excited by the prospect of using salt water, the most abundant resource on earth, as a fuel.

Rustum Roy, a Penn State University chemist, has held demonstrations at his State College lab to confirm his own observations.

The radio frequencies act to weaken the bonds between the elements that make up salt water, releasing the hydrogen, Roy said. Once ignited, the hydrogen will burn as long as it is exposed to the frequencies, he said.

The discovery is "the most remarkable in water science in 100 years," Roy said.

"This is the most abundant element in the world. It is everywhere," Roy said. "Seeing it burn gives me the chills."

Roy will meet this week with officials from the Department of Energy and the Department of Defense to try to obtain research funding.

The scientists want to find out whether the energy output from the burning hydrogen — which reached a heat of more than 3,000 degrees Fahrenheit — would be enough to power a car or other heavy machinery.

"We will get our ideas together and check this out and see where it leads," Roy said. "The potential is huge."
http://green.yahoo.com/index.php?q=node/1570

Offline Dutty

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Re: Radio Frequencies Help Burn Salt Water
« Reply #1 on: September 11, 2007, 06:41:31 PM »
Great...so now dem boy lookin to use up de all de  seawater on de earth to drive dey old car

I hope that research hits a brick wall
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Offline E-man

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Re: Radio Frequencies Help Burn Salt Water
« Reply #2 on: September 11, 2007, 10:30:03 PM »
Great...so now dem boy lookin to use up de all de  seawater on de earth to drive dey old car

I hope that research hits a brick wall

But we're in global warming - all the sea water we use up will just be replaced by melting ice bergs keeping everything at a level  :D

Offline dcs

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Re: Radio Frequencies Help Burn Salt Water
« Reply #3 on: September 11, 2007, 10:55:10 PM »

I think when you burn Hydrogen you get water instead of carbon dioxide as the main by-product.

Not sure what bi-product the sodium would form...Na2O?  traces of white powder?


Offline Organic

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Re: Radio Frequencies Help Burn Salt Water
« Reply #4 on: September 12, 2007, 05:34:12 AM »

I think when you burn Hydrogen you get water instead of carbon dioxide as the main by-product.

Not sure what bi-product the sodium would form...Na2O?  traces of white powder?


u mean when u durn water u get H. cause if u coulda burn hydrogen and get water..i woulda open ah business..l0l
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Offline E-man

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Re: Radio Frequencies Help Burn Salt Water
« Reply #5 on: September 12, 2007, 09:38:04 AM »
The real question for me is are you getting out more energy than you are putting in? Is there potential energy being released in this process? Or is so much energy needed to produce the radio waves that you're not really getting anything out of it.

Offline WestCoast

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« Last Edit: September 12, 2007, 10:12:48 AM by WestCoast »
Whatever you do, do it to the purpose; do it thoroughly, not superficially. Go to the bottom of things. Any thing half done, or half known, is in my mind, neither done nor known at all. Nay, worse, for it often misleads.
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Offline dcs

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Re: Radio Frequencies Help Burn Salt Water
« Reply #7 on: September 12, 2007, 11:07:37 AM »

I think when you burn Hydrogen you get water instead of carbon dioxide as the main by-product.

Not sure what bi-product the sodium would form...Na2O?  traces of white powder?


u mean when u durn water u get H. cause if u coulda burn hydrogen and get water..i woulda open ah business..l0l

No.

The radio frequencies  free up the Hydrogen gas (H2) from the water (H2O).
And burning something is just oxidation so basically reversing the process to combine H2 gas with Oxygen to get back the water.

E-man I was wondering the same thing but maybe it still useful even if there is no net energy gain.  Could look at it as a way to store energy in a clean burning fuel by producing the hydrogen gas to be used remotely.  Also converting one type of energy into another....whatever the source of the radio freq power (electricity probably) to a more explosive type source.

I skeptical though.  I wonder what the frequency is and if people could set this up with the right equipment or if is some crazy amount of power needed to produce one bubble   :D

Offline E-man

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Re: Radio Frequencies Help Burn Salt Water
« Reply #8 on: September 12, 2007, 11:41:52 AM »
Here's a video demonstation of it
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tf4gOS8aoFk

Offline Jah Gol

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Re: Radio Frequencies Help Burn Salt Water
« Reply #9 on: September 12, 2007, 11:45:36 AM »
What is the waste product of burnt salt water ?

Offline Dutty

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Re: Radio Frequencies Help Burn Salt Water
« Reply #10 on: September 12, 2007, 12:08:54 PM »
What is the waste product of burnt salt water ?

Brown seaweed??
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Offline Dutty

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Re: Radio Frequencies Help Burn Salt Water
« Reply #11 on: September 12, 2007, 12:16:45 PM »
Here's a video demonstation of it
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tf4gOS8aoFk

well the cure for cancer attempt is a noble enough effort...hope he succeeds


and as a bonus, that newsclip make me just want to rub mih hands all over de anchorwoman silk blouse
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Offline Bitter

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Re: Radio Frequencies Help Burn Salt Water
« Reply #13 on: December 09, 2009, 10:34:24 AM »
The real question for me is are you getting out more energy than you are putting in? Is there potential energy being released in this process? Or is so much energy needed to produce the radio waves that you're not really getting anything out of it.


No problem man. Jus tune yuh radio to station Hot 666!

I am wondering the same thing. If it occurs at a low power level it could work to augment traditional sources of heat and power.
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Offline Bakes

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Re: Radio Frequencies Help Burn Salt Water
« Reply #14 on: December 09, 2009, 11:23:53 AM »
The cure for cancer didn't work by the way... he died earlier this year according to a follow-up story on 60 Minutes.

Offline PantherX

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Re: Radio Frequencies Help Burn Salt Water
« Reply #15 on: December 09, 2009, 02:59:59 PM »

I think when you burn Hydrogen you get water instead of carbon dioxide as the main by-product.

Not sure what bi-product the sodium would form...Na2O?  traces of white powder?


u mean when u durn water u get H. cause if u coulda burn hydrogen and get water..i woulda open ah business..l0l

No.

The radio frequencies  free up the Hydrogen gas (H2) from the water (H2O).
And burning something is just oxidation so basically reversing the process to combine H2 gas with Oxygen to get back the water.

E-man I was wondering the same thing but maybe it still useful even if there is no net energy gain.  Could look at it as a way to store energy in a clean burning fuel by producing the hydrogen gas to be used remotely.  Also converting one type of energy into another....whatever the source of the radio freq power (electricity probably) to a more explosive type source.

I skeptical though.  I wonder what the frequency is and if people could set this up with the right equipment or if is some crazy amount of power needed to produce one bubble   :D

In the video the flame burns with a bright yellow color, since Hydrogen burns with an virtually invisible flame  this is an indication that Sodium is being oxidised.  So it seems to me that Sodium Oxide would be produced which would combine with water in the air and produce Sodium Hydroxide.

Furthermore wouldn't releasing Hydrogen from the water molecule also produce Hydroxide ions thereby creating a basic solution?  I'm leaning on Sixth form Chemistry here but I remember that water is not H2O but HOH....a Hydride(H-) ion bonded to a Hydroxide (+OH) ion. 

The more I think about this is more confused I become......What happens to the Chlorine in the salt?

 ???

Offline Deeks

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Re: Radio Frequencies Help Burn Salt Water
« Reply #16 on: December 09, 2009, 05:06:40 PM »
Is the water good enough to drink after the oxidization?

Offline E-man

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Re: Radio Frequencies Help Burn Salt Water
« Reply #17 on: December 09, 2009, 06:06:07 PM »

I think when you burn Hydrogen you get water instead of carbon dioxide as the main by-product.

Not sure what bi-product the sodium would form...Na2O?  traces of white powder?


u mean when u durn water u get H. cause if u coulda burn hydrogen and get water..i woulda open ah business..l0l

No.

The radio frequencies  free up the Hydrogen gas (H2) from the water (H2O).
And burning something is just oxidation so basically reversing the process to combine H2 gas with Oxygen to get back the water.

E-man I was wondering the same thing but maybe it still useful even if there is no net energy gain.  Could look at it as a way to store energy in a clean burning fuel by producing the hydrogen gas to be used remotely.  Also converting one type of energy into another....whatever the source of the radio freq power (electricity probably) to a more explosive type source.

I skeptical though.  I wonder what the frequency is and if people could set this up with the right equipment or if is some crazy amount of power needed to produce one bubble   :D

In the video the flame burns with a bright yellow color, since Hydrogen burns with an virtually invisible flame  this is an indication that Sodium is being oxidised.  So it seems to me that Sodium Oxide would be produced which would combine with water in the air and produce Sodium Hydroxide.

Furthermore wouldn't releasing Hydrogen from the water molecule also produce Hydroxide ions thereby creating a basic solution?  I'm leaning on Sixth form Chemistry here but I remember that water is not H2O but HOH....a Hydride(H-) ion bonded to a Hydroxide (+OH) ion. 

The more I think about this is more confused I become......What happens to the Chlorine in the salt?

 ???


The Na+ and Cl- doesn't come into play except maybe as a catalyst since I'm not sure if you can do this with distilled water, but the process is simply H2O + radio energy -> H2 and O2. Then in a reverse process the H2 and O2 burn and convert back to H2O.

and yeah you're right about the structure of H2O is H-O-H with the bonds at about a 104.5 degree angle.



Offline Deeks

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Re: Radio Frequencies Help Burn Salt Water
« Reply #18 on: December 09, 2009, 06:38:05 PM »
Can yuh drink the Wahwah??????

Offline E-man

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Re: Radio Frequencies Help Burn Salt Water
« Reply #19 on: December 09, 2009, 06:41:46 PM »
Can yuh drink the Wahwah??????

If the 'burned' water is being captured in another separate vessel from the original salt water (no longer salty) then there's no reason why you can't.

Offline PantherX

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Re: Radio Frequencies Help Burn Salt Water
« Reply #20 on: December 10, 2009, 02:40:30 PM »
E-Man if the salt is just a catalyst and only hydrogen and oxygen are being combusted how do you account for the bright yellow flame in the video?

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Re: Radio Frequencies Help Burn Salt Water
« Reply #21 on: December 10, 2009, 02:58:50 PM »
E-Man if the salt is just a catalyst and only hydrogen and oxygen are being combusted how do you account for the bright yellow flame in the video?

hahahahahahaha  good question Panther!

Offline E-man

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Re: Radio Frequencies Help Burn Salt Water
« Reply #22 on: December 10, 2009, 03:49:11 PM »
E-Man if the salt is just a catalyst and only hydrogen and oxygen are being combusted how do you account for the bright yellow flame in the video?

Excited sodium ions will glow yellow/orange - doesn't mean they are reacting to form a new substance though.

Here's some examples of different colors metal ions will impart to a flame
http://jchemed.chem.wisc.edu/JCESoft/CCA/CCA2/MAIN/FLAME/CD2R1.HTM

 

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