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Author Topic: CONCACAF to revisit W'Cup qualifying format  (Read 9262 times)

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Offline Jah Gol

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Re: New Format for CONCACAF WCQ 2014?
« Reply #30 on: June 09, 2010, 07:10:08 AM »
Well is now we will never see a WC again.

2 years to stretch out the heart attack and agony.

Is now side have more time to wine on we and come again.
I want to say something positive but I just can't. Cyar see any hope now at all.

Offline Bourbon

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Re: New Format for CONCACAF WCQ 2014?
« Reply #31 on: June 09, 2010, 07:18:37 AM »
Well is now we will never see a WC again.

2 years to stretch out the heart attack and agony.

Is now side have more time to wine on we and come again.
I want to say something positive but I just can't. Cyar see any hope now at all.


I could!

We getting real plenty games at least!!


 :-\
The greatest single cause of atheism in the world today are Christians who acknowledge Jesus ;with their lips and walk out the door and deny Him by their lifestyle. That is what an unbelieving world simply finds unbelievable.

Offline Tallman

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Why CONCACAF is killing the best rivalry in North America
« Reply #32 on: September 29, 2010, 06:22:01 PM »
Why CONCACAF is killing the best rivalry in North America
By Grant Wahl (Sports Illustrated)


They're killing the most important rivalry in American soccer.

That's my unavoidable conclusion after speaking to Chuck Blazer, the general secretary of CONCACAF, who confirmed that he expects FIFA to approve a new regional qualifying format for World Cup 2014.

Under the new format, which has already been approved by CONCACAF, the U.S. and archrival Mexico -- the two soccer giants in this part of the world -- would almost certainly not meet during any of the qualifying games for Brazil 2014. Not even once.

Sadly, I'm not making this up.

Over the past 15 years, U.S.-Mexico has turned into the greatest international sports rivalry in North America, a spectacle that has transcended soccer and helped grow the U.S. national team's popularity among mainstream American sports fans. The two U.S.-Mexico World Cup qualifiers that take place every four years -- one in the U.S., usually Columbus, Ohio, the other in Mexico City -- have filled stadiums with rabid supporters from both countries and turned into must-see TV.

Last year the most popular sports columnist in America, ESPN.com's Bill Simmons, traveled to the U.S.-Mexico game at Estadio Azteca and pronounced that he'd never attended a sporting event where the crowd's collective loathing was as palpable -- not even Boston Celtics playoff games in the 1980s against Bill Laimbeer and the Detroit Pistons. "My trip to Mexico quickly morphed into one of those 'I'm going to remember everything that happened 40 years from now,' " he wrote.

I've had the same experience on both sides of the border. The U.S.-Mexico World Cup qualifiers in Columbus have been just as memorable: three U.S. victories, two of them in such wintry conditions that the Mexican media dubbed them La Guerra Fría (The Cold War).

Whether in Mexico or the U.S., so many images stand out over the years: Brian McBride's black eye, Oguchi Onyewu's staredown of Jared Borgetti, Charlie Davies doing "the Carlton" at the Azteca corner flag, Rafa Márquez's red card, Carlos Hermosillo's Forehead of God goal, the Yanks' 10-man tie in Mexico and strikes by Michael Bradley, Josh Wolff and DaMarcus Beasley, among others.

All the while, fans from both sides went to the limits in expressing their national pride -- and, of course, their sporting hatred for their archrivals. One of the coolest U.S. soccer moments of the past decade was clinching a World Cup berth in 2005 by beating Mexico in Columbus. Afterward, players donned American flags and Uncle Sam top hats to celebrate with the fans as fireworks burst in the sky overhead. And you can't imagine what the scene was like in the Azteca last year after Mexico came from behind to win 2-1 and avoid its first loss to the U.S. on home soil. Mexican fans wearing printed "F--- YOU DONOVAN" T-shirts tossed debris on the U.S. team and taunted every American so gleefully that the U.S. fan section needed an armed police escort to get out of the stadium. (One Mexican fan near the press area shot me an obscene gesture from 10 inches away and dumped his beer on my laptop.)

First-rate gamesmanship has always been part of the rivalry. Mexico hosts its games at the Azteca, where the altitude, smog and noise give El Tri a huge home-field advantage. Last year they scheduled kickoff for noon on a weekday, the better to take advantage of the summertime heat. Meanwhile, the U.S. hosts Mexico in Columbus, a winter icebox that turns the Mexican players into mitten-wearing fraidy cats fearful of a little chill.

What's more, as the U.S. has improved and started winning its share of games against Mexico over the years, the television ratings have climbed to new heights. An average audience of 7.1 million viewers in the U.S. watched the U.S.-Mexico World Cup qualifier in February 2009, 17 percent on English-language ESPN2 and 83 percent on Spanish-language Univisión. (ESPN2's audience of 1.2 million was the highest the channel had recorded for a World Cup qualifier.) Advertisers and TV networks love the U.S.-Mexico rivalry. It's a win-win for fans and moneymen in both countries.

The huge amounts of pressure associated with the rivalry -- on and off the field -- were especially good for the U.S. players, who need as many challenges as possible in a qualifying region where, let's face it, the rest of the teams aren't nearly as good as the Big Two. One of the biggest problems facing the U.S. is that it doesn't have enough high-stakes competitive games between World Cups. The biennial CONCACAF Gold Cup isn't exactly the European Championship or the Copa América. And now the Americans are going to play fewer important games, not more?

So why on earth would CONCACAF eliminate the two most attention-grabbing World Cup qualifying games in its region? It comes down, as you might expect, to politics. FIFA has a one-country, one-vote policy when it comes to elections (there happens to be one next year for FIFA president), and the 35-member CONCACAF includes 23 Caribbean island nations whose ability to band together as a voting bloc (under CONCACAF president Jack Warner of Trinidad & Tobago) gives them power in the FIFA boardroom that far exceeds their impact on the soccer field.

The new CONCACAF World Cup qualifying format may be bad for the U.S.-Mexico rivalry, but it's great for those Caribbean island nations. In the past, as Blazer pointed out to me, most of the Caribbean countries got only two World Cup qualifying games before they were eliminated. Under the new format, 32 of the 35 CONCACAF countries will get at least six World Cup qualifiers. That's better for player development in those countries, and it raises the chances for Caribbean teams to pull off surprises (which are easier in six-game than in 10-game tournaments). It also increases the money that federations can bring in with more games on the docket.

Here's how it would work: The six lowest-ranked teams in the region would have a home-and-home playoff to trim the field to 32. Then eight groups of four teams would play a six-game quarterfinal stage, with the top two in each group advancing. Then four groups of four would play a six-game semifinal stage, with the top two again advancing. Then two groups of four would play a six-game final stage. The two teams that win those groups would earn bids to World Cup '14. If CONCACAF successfully lobbies FIFA for four spots in Brazil (instead of the previous 3.5), then the two second-place teams would also receive World Cup bids. If it stays at 3.5, then the two second-place teams would have a playoff, with the winner going to Brazil and the loser then playing against a team from another confederation for a World Cup spot (last time it was the fifth-place team from South America's CONMEBOL).

U.S.-Mexico games would be almost impossible to happen under this format. In the previous system, the top six teams in the region played a 10-round tournament in the final qualifying round (the so-called Hexagonal). As Blazer confirmed to me, the new group draws would be seeded according to the FIFA rankings, in which the U.S. (ranked 18th) and Mexico (28th) are light years ahead of the next CONCACAF team, Honduras (52nd). If the U.S. and Mexico are the top two seeds, they could never be in the same group. As a result, the only chance for U.S.-Mexico games in World Cup qualifying would be if both teams surprisingly finished second in their final-stage groups and had to meet in a playoff for the third CONCACAF World Cup berth.

Reports had emerged about the new qualifying format over the past several weeks, but no journalists had spoken about it with either of the CONCACAF power brokers, Blazer and Warner.

Blazer is a fascinating guy, the most powerful American in FIFA, and the only one who sits on the 24-member FIFA Executive Committee that votes on which nations will host the World Cup (as it will in December for World Cups '18 and '22). A gregarious Santa Claus of a man, Blazer has a Trump Tower office, a squawking macaw named Max (you can often find him on Blazer's shoulder) and a blog where he posts pictures of himself with Nelson Mandela, Bill Clinton, Prince William, Michel Platini and former Miss Universe winners. In the year 2010, it is good to be Chuck Blazer.

But it's important to remember that while Blazer is American, his master is CONCACAF. Sometimes their interests coincide, as they do in CONCACAF's support of the U.S.' bid to host the World Cup in 2018 or '22. And sometimes they don't, as in the new World Cup qualifying format.

When I reached Blazer in Port of Spain last week, he filled me in on several topics (see below), but he also gave me CONCACAF's point of view on the new qualifying proposal and how he doesn't think it will hurt the U.S.-Mexico rivalry:

• "The goal [of World Cup qualifying] is not to try to find a champion of CONCACAF. That's what we have the Gold Cup for," Blazer said. "A lot of teams got to play only two qualifying games [under the old system] and then they were gone. Now most of them would be guaranteed a minimum of six matches, which is much better for their development programs."

• "There are still plenty of forums for the [U.S.-Mexico] rivalry to exist," Blazer added, "other venues where they can meet each other."

The problems for the U.S.-Mexico rivalry here are obvious, though. First, the two countries can schedule as many money-making friendlies against each other as they want, but the stakes in those games are about the same as in a Yankees-Red Sox spring-training game. And while the Gold Cup at least provides the stakes of a competitive game with a trophy on the line, it has its own problems:

• The U.S. and Mexico aren't guaranteed to meet in the knockout tournament.

• Even if they do meet, it would almost certainly take place in the United States, which has hosted every Gold Cup final except two (1993 and 2003), and where the U.S. has dominated Mexico in recent years.

• The U.S. and Mexico might never play a meaningful game in Mexico, where the atmosphere is most intense and U.S. fans would hit their ultimate nirvana with the first U.S. win on Mexican soil.

• Chances are high that the U.S. or Mexico won't send its A-team to the Gold Cups that take place in the summers when they come right after the Confederations Cup. (See: the U.S. in 2009.)

As a result, American fans had better hope that the U.S. and Mexico reach the final of the Gold Cup in 2011, because that would probably be the only time until 2015 that the two rivals would meet in a game that actually means something with both sides at full strength. And those dreams you had of being in the Azteca when the U.S. silenced 110,000 Mexicans by finally winning a game there that mattered? Forget about it.

As I said, they're killing the most important rivalry in American soccer.

All that's left is for FIFA to approve CONCACAF's new World Cup qualifying format, which Blazer said he expects will happen since the CONCACAF plan keeps the previous 18-game format for most teams and fits within the FIFA match calendar. Blazer said that approval might come in December, or it might have to wait until the next FIFA meeting after that in March 2011.

The death of the U.S.-Mexico rivalry will not be the only effect of the new format either. The overall quality of the U.S.' World Cup qualifiers will diminish dramatically. The three stages of six-game tournaments (home and away against each team) would look something like this:

Stage 1: United States, Antigua & Barbuda, Nicaragua, St. Lucia

Stage 2: United States, Jamaica, Guatemala, Grenada

Stage 3: United States, Honduras, Trinidad & Tobago, Canada

How is this kind of schedule supposed to help prepare the U.S. for the opponents it will face in World Cup 2014?

Imagine you're Clint Dempsey. You're killing your body to survive the rigors of the English Premier League, and once a month you have to hop on a plane to cross the Atlantic for World Cup qualifiers against the likes of St. Lucia and Nicaragua? About the only thing those trips will be good for is improving your tan with all the extra visits to the Caribbean.

What's more, the U.S.' World Cup qualifying would start nine months earlier this time around, Blazer told me, with the Yanks' first six-game tournament taking place in September, October and November of 2011 -- the last two games coming during the final two weeks of the MLS Cup playoffs. The second stage of qualifying would take place in 2012, and the final six-game tournament would be in 2013.

Why isn't the U.S. Soccer Federation up in arms over the new World Cup qualifying proposal? Good question. When asked on Aug. 31 about its negative impact on the U.S.-Mexico rivalry, U.S. Soccer president Sunil Gulati was strangely copacetic with the new arrangement.

"We'll find a way to get [friendly] games with Mexico, so I think that will continue to happen," said Gulati, who is also one of two U.S. members of the CONCACAF Executive Committee (along with Blazer). "The new format took into account a number of things: the desires of a number of members to have additional games at an earlier level against some of the bigger teams. So in effect it was a compromise solution. I think we would have been fine with the old system, and we'll be fine with this new system in terms of reacting to it."

The fact is Gulati shouldn't be fine with the new system. But remember the politics. U.S. Soccer is in the final stages of its bid to host the World Cup in 2018 or '22 (the decision comes down on Dec. 2), and it needs all the support it can get from CONCACAF. It needs the support not just of the three CONCACAF voters on the 24-man FIFA Executive Committee (Warner, Blazer and Guatemalan Rafael Salgüero) but also from the global sphere of influence possessed by Warner (which includes FIFA president Sepp Blatter).

Would harming the U.S.-Mexico rivalry be worth it if the U.S. wins the right to host World Cup '22? Maybe so, actually: It's hard to overestimate the impact that hosting another World Cup could have on soccer in America. But if the U.S. doesn't win the bid, then that's another matter. The most important rivalry in American soccer isn't something you mess with lightly.
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Offline Deeks

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Re: CONCACAF to revisit W'Cup qualifying format
« Reply #33 on: September 29, 2010, 06:43:45 PM »
Underestimate the minnows at you own peril!!!

Offline andre samuel

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Re: CONCACAF to revisit W'Cup qualifying format
« Reply #34 on: September 30, 2010, 05:13:03 AM »
Why does the USA feel that they are the only team in CONCACAF??

The fact that so many other countries would benefit from this new format should be the major selling point, rather than just a f**king Mexico-USA rivalry.

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Offline Observer

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Re: CONCACAF to revisit W'Cup qualifying format
« Reply #35 on: September 30, 2010, 05:30:05 AM »
Why does the USA feel that they are the only team in CONCACAF??

The fact that so many other countries would benefit from this new format should be the major selling point, rather than just a f**king Mexico-USA rivalry.



andrea if the intention was to actually benefit the small countries, would it not have been better to do it at the Gold Cup level. Surely this is more realistic. Make the Gold Cup every 4 years and have a qualification format similar to what they now propose. Now what you have is a WCQ that will have to start in 2011 (3 year qualification) and GC every two years, I can't see the logic.
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Offline Saltanfresh

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Re:Tucco "Shoot first, talk later"
« Reply #36 on: September 30, 2010, 05:40:33 AM »
Why does the USA feel that they are the only team in CONCACAF??

The fact that so many other countries would benefit from this new format should be the major selling point, rather than just a f**king Mexico-USA rivalry.


Well Andre boi, yuh cyar give the Yankees wrong since we keep getting abused by them on the field of play. We especially in T&T have not delivered when ever we had a chance. Lets be honest and look at the results from the last 15 years, at the senior level it seems like when it comes to World Cup qualifiers we are owned by Jamaica, Costa Rica, and USA....(if you doubt meh ask Tallman)

All we have to show is a couple draws in World Cup Qualifiers, forget friendlies bc them games is experimentation. We have only had limited success with Mexico and that has usually come when they already qualified...now what does that say? I luv meh Soca Warriors but until they start showing the heart that the Strike Squad, and the Soca Warriors that played in the 2006 World Cup showed, until then we only TALKING...and we Trinis know how to talk...LOL

I think before every World Cup Qualifier they should put the whole T&T team in a room and let them watch the scene from the Western The Good The Bad and the Ugly..where Tucco says " When you come to kill a man shoot first and talk later"

Offline andre samuel

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Re: CONCACAF to revisit W'Cup qualifying format
« Reply #37 on: September 30, 2010, 06:36:43 AM »
Why does the USA feel that they are the only team in CONCACAF??

The fact that so many other countries would benefit from this new format should be the major selling point, rather than just a f**king Mexico-USA rivalry.



andrea if the intention was to actually benefit the small countries, would it not have been better to do it at the Gold Cup level. Surely this is more realistic. Make the Gold Cup every 4 years and have a qualification format similar to what they now propose. Now what you have is a WCQ that will have to start in 2011 (3 year qualification) and GC every two years, I can't see the logic.

We already have Gold Cup qualifiers, re: digicel cup.  What is wrong with a youth man from St Lucia getting a chance to play at home against a Costa Rican side? Or the experience of playing in Honduras or Guatemala?  Should that only be reserved for only two caribbean teams (Trinidad and Jamaica). 

Another point is that if qualification starts in late 2011 as they are recommending, then it is a 2 year qualification, since qualification is done by late 2013.

The World Cup is the best way to develop, because as the name states, its the world cup

Playing better teams can lead to countries getting better prepared for games and hence improving the level of the game for the "small" country. 

Now i will admit that there is the chance that teams would get blown away in this format, but that is also a part of development.

While on my honeymoon in Antigua last year, i remember talking to a Vincentian who said that the proudest moment in his "football following career" was when his team lost 5-1 to Mexico in Mexico in the Azteca.  The score was 4-0 half time and they ended the 2nd half 1-1.

ah love it!!
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Offline Arazi

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Re: CONCACAF to revisit W'Cup qualifying format
« Reply #38 on: September 30, 2010, 06:40:31 AM »
Why does the USA feel that they are the only team in CONCACAF??

The fact that so many other countries would benefit from this new format should be the major selling point, rather than just a f**king Mexico-USA rivalry.



andrea if the intention was to actually benefit the small countries, would it not have been better to do it at the Gold Cup level. Surely this is more realistic. Make the Gold Cup every 4 years and have a qualification format similar to what they now propose. Now what you have is a WCQ that will have to start in 2011 (3 year qualification) and GC every two years, I can't see the logic.

This actually makes more sense, the Gold Cup is the tournament they should have placed more focus on revamping, as it stands the US and Mexico don't even play games to qualify. I actually improving the Gold Cup will be a better idea than changing the WCQ process, but the change will give the minnows more of a shot, I'm not necessarily sure that will help Concacaf though.

The thing is if the Gold Cup is properly developed the Mexico-US rivalry can possibly be revived there, but that is wishful thinking at this point.

Well Andre boi, yuh cyar give the Yankees wrong since we keep getting abused by them on the field of play. We especially in T&T have not delivered when ever we had a chance. Lets be honest and look at the results from the last 15 years, at the senior level it seems like when it comes to World Cup qualifiers we are owned by Jamaica, Costa Rica, and USA....(if you doubt meh ask Tallman)

All we have to show is a couple draws in World Cup Qualifiers, forget friendlies bc them games is experimentation. We have only had limited success with Mexico and that has usually come when they already qualified...now what does that say? I luv meh Soca Warriors but until they start showing the heart that the Strike Squad, and the Soca Warriors that played in the 2006 World Cup showed, until then we only TALKING...and we Trinis know how to talk...LOL

I think before every World Cup Qualifier they should put the whole T&T team in a room and let them watch the scene from the Western The Good The Bad and the Ugly..where Tucco says " When you come to kill a man shoot first and talk later"

Amazingly our recent qualifying record has been a lot better than most people realise. We've been to three straight HEXAGONALS. We outright beat a full strength Mexico AT HOME in 2000, drew with a similarly full strength Mexico 1-1 with 10 men at home.

There even was an American article on bigsoccer.com during the last WCQ campaign I believe stating that by managing the reach the Hex once again, we could be considered the fourth power in CONCACAF, (note in THE above article, we are expected in the final group) unfortunately our teams/administration/players have lost the plot (which is what happened in both 2001 and 2009).

Offline Arazi

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Re: CONCACAF to revisit W'Cup qualifying format
« Reply #39 on: September 30, 2010, 06:45:29 AM »
Why does the USA feel that they are the only team in CONCACAF??

The fact that so many other countries would benefit from this new format should be the major selling point, rather than just a f**king Mexico-USA rivalry.



andrea if the intention was to actually benefit the small countries, would it not have been better to do it at the Gold Cup level. Surely this is more realistic. Make the Gold Cup every 4 years and have a qualification format similar to what they now propose. Now what you have is a WCQ that will have to start in 2011 (3 year qualification) and GC every two years, I can't see the logic.

We already have Gold Cup qualifiers, re: digicel cup.  What is wrong with a youth man from St Lucia getting a chance to play at home against a Costa Rican side? Or the experience of playing in Honduras or Guatemala?  Should that only be reserved for only two caribbean teams (Trinidad and Jamaica). 

Another point is that if qualification starts in late 2011 as they are recommending, then it is a 2 year qualification, since qualification is done by late 2013.

The World Cup is the best way to develop, because as the name states, its the world cup

Playing better teams can lead to countries getting better prepared for games and hence improving the level of the game for the "small" country. 

Now i will admit that there is the chance that teams would get blown away in this format, but that is also a part of development.

While on my honeymoon in Antigua last year, i remember talking to a Vincentian who said that the proudest moment in his "football following career" was when his team lost 5-1 to Mexico in Mexico in the Azteca.  The score was 4-0 half time and they ended the 2nd half 1-1.

ah love it!!
Are you serious. Gold Cup qualifying completely exempts Mexico and the US!

Yeh but imagine if CONCACAF adopted a Gold Cup qualifying system similar to Euro qualifiers. It would have the same effect as revamping the WCQ. IMO it would be actually better for confederation to do this because TWO of the better Caribbean teams, Guadeloupe and Martinique CAN'T take part in WCQ!

Offline andre samuel

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Re: CONCACAF to revisit W'Cup qualifying format
« Reply #40 on: September 30, 2010, 06:53:02 AM »
USA, Canada and Mexico are exempt from Gold Cup qualifying. 

The point i am making is that it cannot be "more comprehensive" to qualify for a Gold Cup than a World Cup!! 
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Offline Observer

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Re: CONCACAF to revisit W'Cup qualifying format
« Reply #41 on: September 30, 2010, 07:15:49 AM »
USA, Canada and Mexico are exempt from Gold Cup qualifying. 

The point i am making is that it cannot be "more comprehensive" to qualify for a Gold Cup than a World Cup!! 

I don't think anyone will argue your point about what is more comprehensive. I will argue that we are only talking about T&T and Jamaica, what about Haiti & Cuba,  both went to a WC before us or Jamaica.  But in football you have to be realistic, as it presently stands, the majority of the CONCACAF Caribbean countries can't even get to the GC. Creep before you walk and with a revised GC qualification, they will still play US, Mex etc.

Anyway nice discussion, what is done is done. I only hope we don't have a qualification draw and all of a sudden countries withdraw because they cannot afford to play 8 games with all its travel, hosting etc. That will make it look very Micky Mouse
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Offline Jayerson

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Re: CONCACAF to revisit W'Cup qualifying format
« Reply #42 on: September 30, 2010, 07:38:33 AM »
I hope people realise just how important it is for us to get our house in order ASAP. Qualifiers will essentially start in one year's time. All this talk of giving Latapy time etc is a pack of non-sense. The first set of WC qualifiers beigin next September and at the rate we're going, we'll be caught with our pants down.

Latapy's management philosophy is flawed. If there is no room for Birchall (assuming there is no blacklist etc) then this is mess. A battle hardened player of two WC qualifying campaigns, one WC and just 26 years old. Something is very remiss about this. Still happy to see James and Marshall.
« Last Edit: September 30, 2010, 07:40:24 AM by Jayerson »

Offline Toussaint

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Re: CONCACAF to revisit W'Cup qualifying format
« Reply #43 on: September 30, 2010, 03:07:19 PM »
"I will argue that we are only talking about T&T and Jamaica, what about Haiti & Cuba"

I have not heard much about the Cubans other than they are preparing in Germany, however Haiti will bring a new and young team to the GCQ. The team is currently under a Brazilian coach  and it is setting camp in Brazil in preparation for the Gold Cup. Many of the new faces are Franco-Haitians playing in France and only a couple youngsters from the former U-17 that went to the WC will join the team.

The clashes Haiti-Martinique, Haiti-Guadeloupe, Guadeloupe-Martinique will establish which Creole-speaking Caribbean team rules! Those games are going to be real fights and I cannot wait!
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Offline Deeks

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Re: CONCACAF to revisit W'Cup qualifying format
« Reply #44 on: September 30, 2010, 03:21:46 PM »
"I will argue that we are only talking about T&T and Jamaica, what about Haiti & Cuba"

I have not heard much about the Cubans other than they are preparing in Germany, however Haiti will bring a new and young team to the GCQ. The team is currently under a Brazilian coach  and it is setting camp in Brazil in preparation for the Gold Cup. Many of the new faces are Franco-Haitians playing in France and only a couple youngsters from the former U-17 that went to the WC will join the team.

The clashes Haiti-Martinique, Haiti-Guadeloupe, Guadeloupe-Martinique will establish which Creole-speaking Caribbean team rules! Those games are going to be real fights and I cannot wait!


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Offline Deeks

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Re: CONCACAF to revisit W'Cup qualifying format
« Reply #45 on: September 30, 2010, 03:35:14 PM »
USA, Canada and Mexico are exempt from Gold Cup qualifying. 

The point i am making is that it cannot be "more comprehensive" to qualify for a Gold Cup than a World Cup!! 

I feel if Mexico and US feel they too good for Concacaf, they should go bravely into Conmebol. It does not matter how weak the Caribbean teams are? They need to play US and Mex. They are in our zone. In Euro, Lux, Cyprus, Andorra are the whipping boys. I don't hear any complaints from Italy, England, France. They send their teams to cut their arse. And if they don't win by a large margin they are criticized. I feel the GC should be a 16 team tournament. That should be our regional showcase. I think is time to move the GC to other countries. The tournament is play at the US convenience(because of the money).

I don't feel the Mex feel that way about the other teams. Their B teams can handle most of Concacaf minnows. They have never forgotten the licking they got from TT in 73 in Haiti WC and 74 CAC games in DR. rep. They know the minnows can cause upset. So which ever way Concacaf decides they ready. Football is their sport. Not an afterthought sport. Not #10 on the totem pole like the US.

Offline KND2

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Re: CONCACAF to revisit W'Cup qualifying format
« Reply #46 on: September 30, 2010, 03:36:59 PM »
There will need to be adjsutments to how the Fifa rankins is calculated if they want to use that to rank the teams.

Teams benefit from being able to play games against top teams
If you beat them your rankings shoot up

if you cannot get a game from a big team your rankings may never rise up.

i think the rankings should be based on the Top 4 in the gold cup or the top 4 only cosidering concacaf games or something.


For example Costa Rica may be just as good as the US but they may have a harder time getting friendlies vs germany and italy than the us does

Offline Spursy

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Re: CONCACAF to revisit W'Cup qualifying format
« Reply #47 on: September 30, 2010, 05:01:41 PM »
Well I would rather have our own representitive for the Caribbean. For instance if they can give the Caribbean a full spot, so that we are represented no matter what.

Because USA and Mexico suppose to be in Camebol not in our qualifiers. This is jus their chance to qualify every four years .... basically Camebol have 7 spots total
« Last Edit: September 30, 2010, 05:18:41 PM by sHOTTA12 »

Offline Deeks

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Re: CONCACAF to revisit W'Cup qualifying format
« Reply #48 on: September 30, 2010, 06:41:33 PM »
Well I would rather have our own representitive for the Caribbean. For instance if they can give the Caribbean a full spot, so that we are represented no matter what.

Because USA and Mexico suppose to be in Camebol not in our qualifiers. This is jus their chance to qualify every four years .... basically Camebol have 7 spots total

I don't see the Caribbean getting a spot. The most they might get is a half spot.

But leh hush me mouth. Jack does move mountains or bore holes thru them.

Offline NUFF

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Re: CONCACAF to revisit W'Cup qualifying format
« Reply #49 on: September 30, 2010, 11:40:40 PM »
I think it's ridiculous that FIFA rankings are used to determine seeding for world cup qualifying.  FIFA rankings should never be used for anything other than bragging rights among fans. 

They should use the results from the previous world cup qualifying cycle to determine seedings.

Offline just cool

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Re: CONCACAF to revisit W'Cup qualifying format
« Reply #50 on: October 01, 2010, 02:34:32 AM »
I think it's ridiculous that FIFA rankings are used to determine seeding for world cup qualifying.  FIFA rankings should never be used for anything other than bragging rights among fans. 

They should use the results from the previous world cup qualifying cycle to determine seedings.
So why have rankins @ all if it's supposedly inconsequential?
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Offline g

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Re: CONCACAF to revisit W'Cup qualifying format
« Reply #51 on: October 01, 2010, 06:20:58 AM »
If nothing else, the new proposed format will essentially remove these regional international friendlies, where coaches 'giving local players exposure". I fed up of it, especially when the results have clearly shown that the local players are simply not ready (well the coach like he not ready either).

Essentially the stakes are high from early and the preparation will require that our best team play in every friendly within the FIFA calendar of course.

I am less about the number of spots, cause if you want to take your place on the world stage then you have to earn it and if earning it requires that you have to beat the best then so be it. Is almost like we praying for a 4th spot and/or a caribbean spot cause that is all we think we could achieve. That kind of mentality only prepares you for failure. I just as hopeful as the next person but i have no problem with us not making the grade if we simply are not good enough. Maybe it may result in meaningful change one day.

I actualy think we have a squad that can compete, (see palos above) but we need to get the tactics right and proper scouting in place. I lament the fact that we don't practise enough with our best team, we have these local traning squads which never amount to more than a third of the WC squad and when WC qualifiers come around, players not on the same page. Even if we don't schedule friendlies, it would make sense to have some training camps in the UK during some of the international windows just to get the guys together in some training and build some chemistry.
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Offline NUFF

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Re: CONCACAF to revisit W'Cup qualifying format
« Reply #52 on: October 03, 2010, 08:33:32 AM »
I think it's ridiculous that FIFA rankings are used to determine seeding for world cup qualifying.  FIFA rankings should never be used for anything other than bragging rights among fans. 

They should use the results from the previous world cup qualifying cycle to determine seedings.
So why have rankins @ all if it's supposedly inconsequential?

That is a question for FIFA.  As far as I am concerned they could get rid of the rankings tomorrow.  They are useless in my book.

Offline Brownsugar

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Re: CONCACAF to revisit W'Cup qualifying format
« Reply #53 on: October 03, 2010, 05:29:10 PM »
Jack was in Barbados yesterday as the Barbados FA's key note speaker at their 100th Anniversary celebrations.  He was encouraging them to do better because CONCACAF will be getting a 4th spot to the World Cup.  He said it at first and then probably realising he was letting a cat out of a bag, went on to say all signs point to a 4th spot.....
"...If yuh clothes tear up
Or yuh shoes burst off,
You could still jump up when music play.
Old lady, young baby, everybody could dingolay...
Dingolay, ay, ay, ay ay,
Dingolay ay, ay, ay..."

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Time for the minnows to band together?
« Reply #54 on: October 21, 2010, 04:27:56 PM »
Time for the minnows to band together?
By John JD Sterling (soccer365.com)


The notion of World Cup success for the nations of the Caribbean has always been a bit quixotic. The first round of qualifying for the 2010 World Cup gave us such gems as Grenada’s 10-0 thrashing of the U.S. Virgin Islands, El Salvador’s 12-0 blowout of Anguilla, and Suriname’s “close” 7-1 match against Montserrat. 

The second round was no better, with scores of 8-0 (U.S. over Barbados), 7-0 (Mexico over Belize and Jamaica over Bahamas) and 6-0 (once again, Jamaica over Bahamas).  Even the third round saw scores of 7-0 and 6-1.  It was only in the final round of six teams were the matches competitive for the most part – and in that round the lone Caribbean team, Trinidad and Tobago, finished dead last, winning only one of its ten matches.

This is not to say that good football is not played in the Caribbean.  Jamaica not only qualified for the 1998 World Cup, in the group stage they defeated Japan and were tied at half-time with eventual third-place finisher Croatia.  Trinidad and Tobago became the smallest country (in both size and population) to qualify for a World Cup when they did so for the 2006 World Cup - and they even garnered a point in the group stage by tying a strong Swedish side.

The problem is that the individual island nations of the Caribbean simply lack the population and economies to support World Cup class football on a consistent basis.  It is simply unreasonable to expect Montserrat (population: 9,341, GDP: $100 million) or St. Lucia (population: 168,178, GDP: $1.7 billion) to be able to compete with the United States and Mexico, let alone Argentina, Brazil, Germany and Spain.

CONCACAF’s solution has been to propose a change in the qualifying format for the region for the 2014 World Cup.  The new proposed format would, among other changes, replace the six team final round with two final groups of four teams each.  U.S. fans should be upset by this new format because it increases the chance that a difficult draw or poor refereeing in a single match could keep the U.S. from qualifying for the World Cup.  And, if teams are seeded properly, it means the United States and Mexico will likely not play each other during qualifying – a huge disappointment to fans of this fierce rivalry.

The smaller Caribbean teams – who keep CONCACAF President Jack Warner in power - would benefit slightly under this new format.  By selling the television rights to their home matches against the regional powers, each nation’s federation would get a small but helpful payday.  And it increases the likelihood that a small nation could go further in qualifying with the help of an easy draw or single upset.  But it would not change the fact that these small teams are simply overmatched.

A far more radical solution would be for these nations to band together and play as one.  Unthinkable?  Perhaps not.  The West Indies Cricket Board – which currently represents ten nations and five dependencies in the Caribbean – joined what was then the Imperial Cricket Conference in 1926 and has been playing as a multi-country cricket team ever since.  Although currently ranked eighth, from the mid 1970s to the early 1990s, the West Indies was widely considered the best cricket team in the world.  Think of how competitive a football team with players from Anguilla and Barbados and Jamaica and Trinidad and all the other islands could be.  As good as Brazil?  Obviously not.  Competitive with the Central American teams?  Absolutely.  Within striking distance of the U.S. and Mexico?  One never knows.

Traditionalists will grumble that the World Cup is the domain of nation states and nation states only.  But that has never been completely true and is becoming less true every year.  The United Kingdom has always fielded four different teams – England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland.  The United Arab Emirates team is drawn from its seven emirates.  Polish players play for the German team and Algerian players play for the French team. International sports is one of the driving forces that is breaking down the notion of clearly defined borders and nation states.  It is not a question of if, but of when smaller nations in the Caribbean or Oceania or who knows where band together to be more competitive in the World Cup.
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Offline Deeks

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Re: CONCACAF to revisit W'Cup qualifying format
« Reply #55 on: October 21, 2010, 05:26:53 PM »
food for thought!!!!??????

Offline Midknight

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Re: CONCACAF to revisit W'Cup qualifying format
« Reply #56 on: October 21, 2010, 06:32:18 PM »
Time for the minnows to band together?
By John JD Sterling (soccer365.com)


The notion of World Cup success for the nations of the Caribbean has always been a bit quixotic. The first round of qualifying for the 2010 World Cup gave us such gems as Grenada’s 10-0 thrashing of the U.S. Virgin Islands, El Salvador’s 12-0 blowout of Anguilla, and Suriname’s “close” 7-1 match against Montserrat. 

The second round was no better, with scores of 8-0 (U.S. over Barbados), 7-0 (Mexico over Belize and Jamaica over Bahamas) and 6-0 (once again, Jamaica over Bahamas).  Even the third round saw scores of 7-0 and 6-1.  It was only in the final round of six teams were the matches competitive for the most part – and in that round the lone Caribbean team, Trinidad and Tobago, finished dead last, winning only one of its ten matches.

This is not to say that good football is not played in the Caribbean.  Jamaica not only qualified for the 1998 World Cup, in the group stage they defeated Japan and were tied at half-time with eventual third-place finisher Croatia.  Trinidad and Tobago became the smallest country (in both size and population) to qualify for a World Cup when they did so for the 2006 World Cup - and they even garnered a point in the group stage by tying a strong Swedish side.

The problem is that the individual island nations of the Caribbean simply lack the population and economies to support World Cup class football on a consistent basis.  It is simply unreasonable to expect Montserrat (population: 9,341, GDP: $100 million) or St. Lucia (population: 168,178, GDP: $1.7 billion) to be able to compete with the United States and Mexico, let alone Argentina, Brazil, Germany and Spain.

CONCACAF’s solution has been to propose a change in the qualifying format for the region for the 2014 World Cup.  The new proposed format would, among other changes, replace the six team final round with two final groups of four teams each.  U.S. fans should be upset by this new format because it increases the chance that a difficult draw or poor refereeing in a single match could keep the U.S. from qualifying for the World Cup.  And, if teams are seeded properly, it means the United States and Mexico will likely not play each other during qualifying – a huge disappointment to fans of this fierce rivalry.

The smaller Caribbean teams – who keep CONCACAF President Jack Warner in power - would benefit slightly under this new format.  By selling the television rights to their home matches against the regional powers, each nation’s federation would get a small but helpful payday.  And it increases the likelihood that a small nation could go further in qualifying with the help of an easy draw or single upset.  But it would not change the fact that these small teams are simply overmatched.

A far more radical solution would be for these nations to band together and play as one.  Unthinkable?  Perhaps not.  The West Indies Cricket Board – which currently represents ten nations and five dependencies in the Caribbean – joined what was then the Imperial Cricket Conference in 1926 and has been playing as a multi-country cricket team ever since.  Although currently ranked eighth, from the mid 1970s to the early 1990s, the West Indies was widely considered the best cricket team in the world.  Think of how competitive a football team with players from Anguilla and Barbados and Jamaica and Trinidad and all the other islands could be.  As good as Brazil?  Obviously not.  Competitive with the Central American teams?  Absolutely.  Within striking distance of the U.S. and Mexico?  One never knows.

Traditionalists will grumble that the World Cup is the domain of nation states and nation states only.  But that has never been completely true and is becoming less true every year.  The United Kingdom has always fielded four different teams – England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland.  The United Arab Emirates team is drawn from its seven emirates.  Polish players play for the German team and Algerian players play for the French team. International sports is one of the driving forces that is breaking down the notion of clearly defined borders and nation states.  It is not a question of if, but of when smaller nations in the Caribbean or Oceania or who knows where band together to be more competitive in the World Cup.

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