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Author Topic: T&T General Elections Thread  (Read 169121 times)

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Offline Socapro

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Re: T&T 2015 General Elections Thread
« Reply #900 on: September 09, 2015, 01:47:30 PM »
Quote
Not really bro. Corruption is a perception since it is difficult to quantify who is "more" corrupt. Frankly outside of the 1986-1991 government (which is likely the most corrupt we've seen since independence), all the others are comparable and debatable.


How can corruption be a perception??? when never in the history of Trinidad and Tobago has a government spent 400 billion dollars in 5 years.
How can you say it's a perception when a company with ties to the gov't receives 1 billion dollars to build roads but has to outsource contracts because they don't have the capabilities
When a PM leaves Parliament Thursday and doesn't return till the following Wednesday...who was actually running the gov't
When a man gets a check for millions of dollars for lifesport but doesn't do one thing...how could that be perception
Should I continue???

I realised that R45 must be a typical blind UNC supporter when he replied to me with that drivle about corruption being a perception.
Just couldn't be bothered to argue with him. Thought I'd just  allow him to continue drinking that koolade if he likes but I am not drinking.
De higher a monkey climbs is de less his ass is on de line, if he works for FIFA that is! ;-)

Offline R45

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Re: T&T 2015 General Elections Thread
« Reply #901 on: September 09, 2015, 01:49:48 PM »
How can corruption be a perception??? when never in the history of Trinidad and Tobago has a government spent 400 billion dollars in 5 years.
Just to be clear, if you want to quote me, put it in context. My perception comment is that they are perceived to be more corrupt than other corrupt governments we've had.

1. Are you saying every cent spent in the last 5 years were corrupt? I don't think even the PP's biggest detractors suggest that.
2. Inflation adjusted, the PP's budget spending isn't that far off from previous administrations. In 2009/2010 (the last PNM budget), there was a revenue projection $36B TTD and and spending of $46B TTD. In 2015 numbers, adjusted for inflation, that would be $54B TTD and $69B TTD respectively. If they ran those numbers every year for 5 years, you would have had around $350 B TTD spent over 5 years, with $75B TTD of debt. Anyway my point is 400B TTD is a lot of money but using that number alone without context doesn't really mean much.

Quote
How can you say it's a perception when a company with ties to the gov't receives 1 billion dollars to build roads but has to outsource contracts because they don't have the capabilities
Because it's not the first billion dollar corruption scandal we've had. The Piarco airport was a billion dollar scandal, and in today's dollars it's a multi-billion scandal. The UDECOTT contracts were billion dollar scandals. It's not the first, and probably won't be the last unfortunately.

Quote
When a PM leaves Parliament Thursday and doesn't return till the following Wednesday...who was actually running the gov't
People who forget our history are doomed to repeat it. Kamla was not the first prime minister to be accused of bizarre behaviour.

Do people not forget Manning's relationship with Julia Pena - that she was giving him "spiritual advice" on government matters (and he used gov't resources to find her multi-million dollar church).

Eric Williams was accused of disappearing for weeks at a time to write books, where even senior members of his cabinet could not reach him for days. He'd remain at home and not venture out to his office for a week or two at a time, which created chaos for the folks around him.

I absolutely agree that Kamla had bizarre behaviour though.

Quote
When a man gets a check for millions of dollars for lifesport but doesn't do one thing...how could that be perception
Again (theme) not the first time. We've had scandals upon scandals of people collecting money from gov't programs like scholarships during both the PNM/UNC administrations pre-2010, ghost workers in state companies, and flat out corrupt bribes.

Offline R45

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Re: T&T 2015 General Elections Thread
« Reply #902 on: September 09, 2015, 01:53:21 PM »
I realised that R45 must be a typical blind UNC supporter when he replied to me with that drivle about corruption being a perception.
Just couldn't be bothered to argue with him. Thought I'd just  allow him to continue drinking that koolade if he likes but I am not drinking.
No it's more that some of you people just are choosing to read what you want, and are blinded by partisanship to critically look at issues within the context of our long history. I wasn't a fan of the PP, but most of their shit was done by previous administrations. That doesn't excuse their actions, but you can't look at things in isolation when you're voting back in people that did the same shit before.

I'm a very happy neutral, thank you very much.

Offline Socapro

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Re: T&T 2015 General Elections Thread
« Reply #903 on: September 09, 2015, 01:57:46 PM »
I realised that R45 must be a typical blind UNC supporter when he replied to me with that drivle about corruption being a perception.
Just couldn't be bothered to argue with him. Thought I'd just  allow him to continue drinking that koolade if he likes but I am not drinking.
No it's more that some of you people just are choosing to read what you want, and are blinded by partisanship to critically look at issues within the context of our long history. I wasn't a fan of the PP, but most of their shit was done by previous administrations. That doesn't excuse their actions, but you can't look at things in isolation when you're voting back in people that did the same shit before.

I'm a very happy neutral, thank you very much.

Continue drinking your koolade my friend but every blind man in T&T and his dog knows that the UNC/PP who just got voted out are by leaps and bounds the most corrupt government that T&T has ever seen.

I would respectfully suggest that you offer that koolade you are drinking to someone else.
De higher a monkey climbs is de less his ass is on de line, if he works for FIFA that is! ;-)

Offline R45

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Re: T&T 2015 General Elections Thread
« Reply #904 on: September 09, 2015, 02:02:26 PM »
Well I humbly disagree - I think if you look at the sheerness of corruption, the 1981-1986 government was probably the worst. I'd even say the electorate probably agreed given how overwhelmingly that government got voted out as well. We haven't seen a sweep like that in our history ever, and the only time a government has been swept like that is when the opposition boycotted the elections in 1971.

Offline Bakes

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Re: T&T 2015 General Elections Thread
« Reply #905 on: September 09, 2015, 05:21:06 PM »
These PP lawyers... lol

Now they trying to have the election outcome overturned on the grounds that the EBC extended voting by one hour w/o giving them notice.

Offline mukumsplau

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Re: T&T 2015 General Elections Thread
« Reply #906 on: September 09, 2015, 05:36:00 PM »




Offline Michael-j

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Re: T&T 2015 General Elections Thread
« Reply #907 on: September 09, 2015, 05:36:45 PM »
These PP lawyers... lol

Now they trying to have the election outcome overturned on the grounds that the EBC extended voting by one hour w/o giving them notice.

Even more ludicrous is their claim that they were comfortably ahead in the polls at 6pm .


Offline mukumsplau

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Re: T&T 2015 General Elections Thread
« Reply #908 on: September 09, 2015, 06:41:30 PM »

Offline asylumseeker

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Re: T&T 2015 General Elections Thread
« Reply #909 on: September 09, 2015, 07:28:40 PM »
Kams, Kams, Kams ... the ill-fated EBC mission amounts to nothing more than an ill-advised squandering of goodwill and good sense. Not a good look!

Offline R45

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Re: T&T 2015 General Elections Thread
« Reply #910 on: September 09, 2015, 07:49:06 PM »
I figure if they had to hold the election again, the PP/UNC would lose even more seats. They should calm themselves down with that shit and take their loss in stride.


Offline MEP

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Re: T&T 2015 General Elections Thread
« Reply #911 on: September 09, 2015, 08:01:40 PM »
Quote
Not really bro. Corruption is a perception since it is difficult to quantify who is "more" corrupt. Frankly outside of the 1986-1991 government (which is likely the most corrupt we've seen since independence), all the others are comparable and debatable.


How can corruption be a perception??? when never in the history of Trinidad and Tobago has a government spent 400 billion dollars in 5 years.
How can you say it's a perception when a company with ties to the gov't receives 1 billion dollars to build roads but has to outsource contracts because they don't have the capabilities
When a PM leaves Parliament Thursday and doesn't return till the following Wednesday...who was actually running the gov't
When a man gets a check for millions of dollars for lifesport but doesn't do one thing...how could that be perception
Should I continue???

I realised that R45 must be a typical blind UNC supporter when he replied to me with that drivle about corruption being a perception.
Just couldn't be bothered to argue with him. Thought I'd just  allow him to continue drinking that koolade if he likes but I am not drinking.

you know you're right it's that typical sycophantic hmmm or is it sickophantic or psychofantic...anyway they are always purporting to be neutral and looking at facts. Look at the compounded jackassery he is talking now that if numbers were adjusted for inflation.

Offline R45

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Re: T&T 2015 General Elections Thread
« Reply #912 on: September 09, 2015, 08:17:29 PM »
you know you're right it's that typical sycophantic hmmm or is it sickophantic or psychofantic...anyway they are always purporting to be neutral and looking at facts. Look at the compounded jackassery he is talking now that if numbers were adjusted for inflation.

I truly feel sorry for you if you think, when trying to quantify corruption between administrations in a long time span, that using inflation adjustments to directly compare dollar amounts is "jackassery". Inflation isn't rocket science. I think an educated person would consider that common sense, but you're entitled to your opinion.

Offline Sando prince

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Re: T&T 2015 General Elections Thread
« Reply #913 on: September 09, 2015, 09:34:10 PM »

So PNM has won the popular vote.

PNM= 334,016.

UNC= 310,370.






Some of these numbers aren't adding up. The Diego Martin North and West seats had several independent candidates running, and I recall (at least on the TV6 broadcast) they got a couple votes. On that spreadsheet it shows no votes at all. Not like it has an impact to overall result, but something is wrong with those numbers.

PNM won 50.76 % of the vote.

http://www.elections.tt


Offline MEP

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Re: T&T 2015 General Elections Thread
« Reply #914 on: September 09, 2015, 10:10:54 PM »
you know you're right it's that typical sycophantic hmmm or is it sickophantic or psychofantic...anyway they are always purporting to be neutral and looking at facts. Look at the compounded jackassery he is talking now that if numbers were adjusted for inflation.

I truly feel sorry for you if you think, when trying to quantify corruption between administrations in a long time span, that using inflation adjustments to directly compare dollar amounts is "jackassery". Inflation isn't rocket science. I think an educated person would consider that common sense, but you're entitled to your opinion.

don't feel sorry for me padnah feel sorry for yourself....... what you have obviously failed to understand what you are in denial about is that every facet of the PP gov't was corrupt..yes in past gov'ts there were elements of corruption and it happens everywhere in the world but the mandate of the former gov't was not about good governance but what they can get for their own and themselves. So for you to pretend that they were otherwise is intellectually disingenuous provided I'm allowed the liberty to use "you and intellectual" in the same sentence.

Offline R45

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Re: T&T 2015 General Elections Thread
« Reply #915 on: September 09, 2015, 11:03:19 PM »
PNM won 50.76 % of the vote.

http://www.elections.tt


Thanks for the link. The numbers on elections.tt (Guardian website) are a little different from the screenshot of the spreadsheet linked earlier, not for the PNM/PP numbers, but for the ILP and others. I was curious how many votes the other parties ended up getting. According to the Guardian site, the ILP got 8,368 votes total, with half coming from Jack's seat. Looks like he would be the only one to get back his deposit for the ILP, or for any of the non PNM/PP candidates for that matter.

Offline R45

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Re: T&T 2015 General Elections Thread
« Reply #916 on: September 09, 2015, 11:09:36 PM »
don't feel sorry for me padnah feel sorry for yourself....... what you have obviously failed to understand what you are in denial about is that every facet of the PP gov't was corrupt..yes in past gov'ts there were elements of corruption and it happens everywhere in the world but the mandate of the former gov't was not about good governance but what they can get for their own and themselves. So for you to pretend that they were otherwise is intellectually disingenuous provided I'm allowed the liberty to use "you and intellectual" in the same sentence.
I won't waste your or my time any further, but just note (or well, actually read) that I'm not denying or excusing PP corruption or incompetence. If that's all you can take from my posts, I hope one day you can see things beyond everything being black or white (or red and yellow I guess).


Offline pull stones

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Re: T&T 2015 General Elections Thread
« Reply #917 on: September 10, 2015, 01:11:34 AM »
somehow i knew that the UNC/PP would make an objection to the election based on some minor technicality. boy oh boy this party and it's leader have no class at all, and they are very much disgraceful. this i am sure no other tt prime minister has ever done.

Offline pull stones

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Re: T&T 2015 General Elections Thread
« Reply #918 on: September 10, 2015, 01:23:45 AM »
Kams, Kams, Kams ... the ill-fated EBC mission amounts to nothing more than an ill-advised squandering of goodwill and good sense. Not a good look!
so what's the verdict, objection overruled?

this lady would not go quietly unlike manning and panday. it seems like she will advance any loophole to nullify this election results. i say look for more disgruntled behavior from this lady in the coming weeks and months and a call for a vote of no confidence on the prime minister might be sooner than we think. i kind of get the feeling that the next five years would be a bumpy ride for the PNM in parliament, if they survive these tiger sharks.

Offline Socapro

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Re: T&T 2015 General Elections Thread
« Reply #919 on: September 10, 2015, 05:22:04 AM »
somehow i knew that the UNC/PP would make an objection to the election based on some minor technicality. boy oh boy this party and it's leader have no class at all, and they are very much disgraceful. this i am sure no other tt prime minister has ever done.

The PP/UNC are starting to behave just like their sister party the PPP did when they got voted out in Guyana back in May.

The PNM won both the elections and the popular vote so the UNC needs to accept the results and move on and look to rebuild their party preferrably under new leadership.

PNM = 23 Seats

PP/UNC = 18 Seats

PNM = 334,896 votes

PP/UNC = 310,754 votes

PNM won 50.76 % of the popular vote

PP/UNC won 47.10 % of the popular vote

Other Parties won 2.14% of the popular vote

Go here for details: http://www.elections.tt


PS:
And btw the UNC Headquarters at Rienzi Complex confirmed on facebook at 2:33pm on the day of the elections that they got and accepted the news that the Elections closing time had been officially extended to 7pm in Trinidad by the EBC due to the bad weather.
So this is just a case of sour grapes from the ex-PM Kamla and the UNC trying to say the extension of the elections closing time by the EBC was illegal as it wasn't. I am sure many UNC voters took advantage of the extension and voted between 6 & 7 PNM just like many PNM voters would also have done.
« Last Edit: September 10, 2015, 06:20:10 AM by Socapro »
De higher a monkey climbs is de less his ass is on de line, if he works for FIFA that is! ;-)

Offline kaliman2006

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Re: T&T 2015 General Elections Thread
« Reply #920 on: September 10, 2015, 05:27:52 AM »
Kams, Kams, Kams ... the ill-fated EBC mission amounts to nothing more than an ill-advised squandering of goodwill and good sense. Not a good look!

Mrs. Persad-Bissessar's personal stock plummets by the second, never mind the hour. Boy, the way the Partnership is behaving, one would think that they were comprehensively defeated in the recently concluded General Elections. The Partnership still has eighteen seats, enough to exercise a significant degree of influence in the passage of legislation.

In its desperate efforts to invalidate the election results on a logically and constitutionally flawed basis, the Partnership seems to have forgotten that it is still a very significant player in the affairs of this country

Offline R45

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« Last Edit: September 10, 2015, 06:00:59 AM by R45 »

Offline lefty

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Re: T&T 2015 General Elections Thread
« Reply #922 on: September 10, 2015, 06:22:41 AM »
I pity the fool....

Offline Brownsugar

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Re: T&T 2015 General Elections Thread
« Reply #923 on: September 10, 2015, 06:26:30 AM »
Great is the PNM Great is the PNM and we have prevailed...
Bakes good to see you back.....ah hear yuh boy Sanko lookin for a wuk...wait even wuss for he right hand man

Just passing thru... yuh know tonight of all night I have tuh come tief ah wine on Brownsugar  :beermug:


Bakes!!! Ah reach!! Okay, okay.....about 3 days late but its been a busy few days. 

Ah reach home from Balisier House 3 am Monday night.   Ah wine, ah jump, ah wave, ah wine, wine, wine, wine and wine some more......is 5 YEARS OF STRESS ah try to release in one night!!!   ;D ;D

Oh gorm boy hear nah.  TV6 nearly drive me mad Monday night with the early results looking like UNC going to win.  I got fed up jump een mih car and drive down by Balisier House.  When ah walk een, I saw only 5 seats on a screen in the yard in red.  One was La Horquetta/Talparo and the other Moruga/Tableland already in red ah say good....PNM win. And I start to party one time.....

Now is ah good ting ah celebrate so much Monday night cuz lawd knows since Tuesday morning is either these racist a-holes stinking up de place with their shyte or Tanty wid she shyte petition.....look....hear nah.....whoo sah.....smh.

One last thing.  If I didn't believe it before, I believe it now.  The UNC supporters vote strictly on race.  Period.  Full stop.  Not one single typical UNC safe seat shifted.  Not one.  I'm waiting on official results but I'm hearing in some cases the number of voters was even higher than past elections.

This race thing is really holding back the country.  Everybody and dey nenen knows the UNC doesn't play nice in opposition.  There are legislative changes that need to made that require a constitutional majority.  Like some of the changes to Local Government.  Or the issue of internal self governance for Tobago.  The UNC going and agree with the PNM on some of these things??  Yeah fricking right??!!

UNC supporters, take a big wet watery steups!!!  All yuh on real shit!!

I say so.  Who vex loss!!!

That said...... :wavetowel: :wavetowel: :wavetowel: :wavetowel: :party: :party: :party: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :wavetowel: :wavetowel: :wavetowel: :wavetowel: :party:
"...If yuh clothes tear up
Or yuh shoes burst off,
You could still jump up when music play.
Old lady, young baby, everybody could dingolay...
Dingolay, ay, ay, ay ay,
Dingolay ay, ay, ay..."

RIP Shadow....The legend will live on in music...

Offline Brownsugar

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Re: T&T 2015 General Elections Thread
« Reply #924 on: September 10, 2015, 06:30:04 AM »
Bourbon.....yuh see mih St. Joseph friend was right  :).  She always believed in Terrance Deyalsingh and that he would win.  I have a co worker who was always resolute that the PNM would win Tunapuna no matter what the polls were showing. 

As for them pollsters.....only Louis Bertrand/HHB was correct.  Nigel Henry kept saying the race was close but I feel he was just hedging so he could fashion the narrative a certain way when the results eventually came in......

Weary girl....about Watson Duke.  What ah goh say.....many, many apologies.....*sigh*
"...If yuh clothes tear up
Or yuh shoes burst off,
You could still jump up when music play.
Old lady, young baby, everybody could dingolay...
Dingolay, ay, ay, ay ay,
Dingolay ay, ay, ay..."

RIP Shadow....The legend will live on in music...

Offline Brownsugar

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Re: T&T 2015 General Elections Thread
« Reply #925 on: September 10, 2015, 06:31:52 AM »
On the topic of Sancho.....ah still waiting to see how much he lost by.  Initial figures shows it wasn't a blow out but still...... :whip: :whip: :flamethrower:

Damn arse!!  Yuh want to sell out.....go ahead.  The people aren't fools.....
"...If yuh clothes tear up
Or yuh shoes burst off,
You could still jump up when music play.
Old lady, young baby, everybody could dingolay...
Dingolay, ay, ay, ay ay,
Dingolay ay, ay, ay..."

RIP Shadow....The legend will live on in music...

Offline Socapro

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Re: T&T 2015 General Elections Thread
« Reply #926 on: September 10, 2015, 06:39:23 AM »
Great is the PNM Great is the PNM and we have prevailed...
Bakes good to see you back.....ah hear yuh boy Sanko lookin for a wuk...wait even wuss for he right hand man

Just passing thru... yuh know tonight of all night I have tuh come tief ah wine on Brownsugar  :beermug:


Bakes!!! Ah reach!! Okay, okay.....about 3 days late but its been a busy few days. 

Ah reach home from Balisier House 3 am Monday night.   Ah wine, ah jump, ah wave, ah wine, wine, wine, wine and wine some more......is 5 YEARS OF STRESS ah try to release in one night!!!   ;D ;D

Oh gorm boy hear nah.  TV6 nearly drive me mad Monday night with the early results looking like UNC going to win.  I got fed up jump een mih car and drive down by Balisier House.  When ah walk een, I saw only 5 seats on a screen in the yard in red.  One was La Horquetta/Talparo and the other Moruga/Tableland already in red ah say good....PNM win. And I start to party one time.....

Now is ah good ting ah celebrate so much Monday night cuz lawd knows since Tuesday morning is either these racist a-holes stinking up de place with their shyte or Tanty wid she shyte petition.....look....hear nah.....whoo sah.....smh.

One last thing.  If I didn't believe it before, I believe it now.  The UNC supporters vote strictly on race.  Period.  Full stop.  Not one single typical UNC safe seat shifted.  Not one.  I'm waiting on official results but I'm hearing in some cases the number of voters was even higher than past elections.

This race thing is really holding back the country.  Everybody and dey nenen knows the UNC doesn't play nice in opposition.  There are legislative changes that need to made that require a constitutional majority.  Like some of the changes to Local Government.  Or the issue of internal self governance for Tobago.  The UNC going and agree with the PNM on some of these things??  Yeah fricking right??!!

UNC supporters, take a big wet watery steups!!!  All yuh on real shit!!

I say so.  Who vex loss!!!

That said...... :wavetowel: :wavetowel: :wavetowel: :wavetowel: :party: :party: :party: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :wavetowel: :wavetowel: :wavetowel: :wavetowel: :party:

Most UNC supporters have been miss-educated and groomed to be tribal in their voting and put being power above what is good for the country.
De higher a monkey climbs is de less his ass is on de line, if he works for FIFA that is! ;-)

Offline Socapro

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Re: T&T 2015 General Elections Thread
« Reply #927 on: September 10, 2015, 06:47:03 AM »
On the topic of Sancho.....ah still waiting to see how much he lost by.  Initial figures shows it wasn't a blow out but still...... :whip: :whip: :flamethrower:

Damn arse!!  Yuh want to sell out.....go ahead.  The people aren't fools.....

I believe that Sancho lost to Glenda Jennings-Smith the PNM candidate for Toco/Sangre Grande by 2,365 votes.

Glenda Jennings-Smith polled 9,214 votes for the PNM while Sancho polled 6,849 votes for the UNC.

Go here for details: http://www.elections.tt/
« Last Edit: September 10, 2015, 06:49:01 AM by Socapro »
De higher a monkey climbs is de less his ass is on de line, if he works for FIFA that is! ;-)

Offline Brownsugar

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Re: T&T 2015 General Elections Thread
« Reply #928 on: September 10, 2015, 08:38:37 AM »
On the topic of Sancho.....ah still waiting to see how much he lost by.  Initial figures shows it wasn't a blow out but still...... :whip: :whip: :flamethrower:

Damn arse!!  Yuh want to sell out.....go ahead.  The people aren't fools.....

I believe that Sancho lost to Glenda Jennings-Smith the PNM candidate for Toco/Sangre Grande by 2,365 votes.

Glenda Jennings-Smith polled 9,214 votes for the PNM while Sancho polled 6,849 votes for the UNC.

Go here for details: http://www.elections.tt/

I've been avoiding using these figures being bandied about because they are not OFFICIAL EBC figures.  I heard on I95.5fm earlier that the official figures were out but I'm not seeing anything on the EBC website.....
"...If yuh clothes tear up
Or yuh shoes burst off,
You could still jump up when music play.
Old lady, young baby, everybody could dingolay...
Dingolay, ay, ay, ay ay,
Dingolay ay, ay, ay..."

RIP Shadow....The legend will live on in music...

Offline lefty

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Re: T&T 2015 General Elections Thread
« Reply #929 on: September 10, 2015, 09:08:34 AM »
On the topic of Sancho.....ah still waiting to see how much he lost by.  Initial figures shows it wasn't a blow out but still...... :whip: :whip: :flamethrower:

Damn arse!!  Yuh want to sell out.....go ahead.  The people aren't fools.....

I believe that Sancho lost to Glenda Jennings-Smith the PNM candidate for Toco/Sangre Grande by 2,365 votes.

Glenda Jennings-Smith polled 9,214 votes for the PNM while Sancho polled 6,849 votes for the UNC.

Go here for details: http://www.elections.tt/

I've been avoiding using these figures being bandied about because they are not OFFICIAL EBC figures.  I heard on I95.5fm earlier that the official figures were out but I'm not seeing anything on the EBC website.....

so is still unofficial...steups....hope d official figure can hold true regard the popular vote so dem racist assholes could shut  the f**k up
I pity the fool....

 

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