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Offline trinindian

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Re: Interesting Read
« Reply #30 on: May 27, 2010, 12:49:19 PM »
The are numerous examples of so called preferential treatment to people of different backgrounds, be it the enrollment process for medical school at UWI or the make up of a national team. 

So you feel under represented in certain section of society, but instead of claiming prejudicial practices and stopping short of crying out for affirmative actions. Take a step back and ask was the best person hired for the job? Did the individual(s) want the job.

I will speak from my perspective, growing up civil i.e. police man, army officer was not something I aspired too, they aren’t any of those in my family and I was simply not exposed. So naturally when pursuing my career these were not paths that I considered. To say that the composition of the civil service is skewed one must also consider that applicants for the jobs are also skewed.

There is no disputing that the hiring practices of past governments have been skewed to benefit their supporters and thus appeared to be racial even if not intended.

If we are to break the cycle, we as a society has to figure out how to expose the next generation in all aspects. I left home ~12 yrs ago but before leaving my interactions with the police would never have inspired me to become one.  I believe that I would have a better life if I did something else.

If the new AG wants to see more Indians in the civil service maybe he should looking at ways of encouraging them to enroll.  This also extends to sports.

This by no means is a denial of racism in our society, I choose instead to put fwd a possible fix.
 

Offline Bakes

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Re: Interesting Read
« Reply #31 on: May 27, 2010, 12:58:15 PM »
Good perspective trinindian... I completely agree.  Of course it helps that you express (in greater detail) the same ideas that I touched on earlier  ;D

But that last article MEP post was a good one too... I think Anand touched on some rational explanations for the discrepancy and he tried to do a objective job of showing how and why it exists.  Unfortunately I think the overall tenor of the three articles posted thus far reveal that he's less interested in the objective reasons why the discrepancies (in hiring, representations in the media etc.) exists... and more concerned with focusing on the facts that they DO exist, and that the numbers of Indo-Trinis need to be increased.

As I stated before, I don't think this "fixation" itself is a bad thing... but if approached with a solution in mind, rather than just a blind focus on balancing representative figures then we start approaching "quota" talk which understandably makes people uneasy.  In his new role as AG he has be be clear in showing no partiality to any sector... but his past positions make it hard for people to judge him objectively.  I think that is the cause for concern.  For me personally it's too early to worry... but I understand the concerns being expressed.

truetrini

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Re: Interesting Read
« Reply #32 on: May 27, 2010, 01:16:26 PM »
    *

You are hereAnand's Collection / 'Rubber stamp' discrimination
'Rubber stamp' discrimination

By anand - Posted on 26 July 2009

If you’re waiting for a court judgment that declares that someone was a victim of racial discrimination, before you believe racial discrimination exists, you’re in for a long wait, for no one can prove racial discrimination. All a citizen can show is that he was treated unequally or differently, when compared with other similarly circumstanced people.

The motive and reason for the unfair treatment is not a matter the victim can prove, for this would be known only by the discriminator. This common sense reasoning explains why our constitution does not require an aggrieved citizen to prove why he was treated differently; all he needs to show is that he was treated unequally or unfairly. In the past, the racial imbalance in the public service was probably due to social, cultural and political influences that made it a more attractive career option for non-Indians.

Since the 80s, however, things have changed. Indians are now the single largest ethnic group. It is an educated, large workforce. They are not confined to the South alone, but have migrated to and re-settled in various parts of the island. The children of the cane cutters have been educated and find the public service a good career option. In the face of this new reality, the persistent racial imbalance in the public service and (in particular the hierarchy), demands closer analysis.

Demonstrated bias

Is there a glass ceiling in the public service that prevents Indo-Trini public servants from gaining promotion to the higher levels? Is there an institutional bias against Indo-Trini public servants? Is this bias a conscious, unconscious or subconscious one? Is this all based on race? Or, is it simply political favouritism and discrimination, which translates into a demonstrated bias against Indians, because our politics is one that is based on race?

Are there other forms of discrimination based on gender, locality connections, etc? The cases of Devant Maharaj, Khimraj Bissessar, Ganga-Persad Kissoon, Feroza Ramjohn and Harridath Maharaj all concerned promotion to high public office. The courts declared that they were treated unfairly when they were bypassed in favour of others.

Invariably, they were bypassed in favour of junior officers with less qualifications and experience who were non-Indian. Their long and distinguished careers were restricted by unfair treatment. I have represented many public servants of all races, and know that discrimination is not simply confined to race. It is much wider, and many Afro-Trini public servants are also treated unfairly. The complaints vary, but it is clear that all is not well with the hiring and promotion practices in the public sector.
What are some of the grouses?

1. The promotion interview panels seldom contain Indo-Trinidadian interviewers, and this leads to an unnecessarily (and sometimes unjustified) feeling of discrimination when Indian officers are given lower marks by the interview panel. It is suspected that interviews were used as a sham or device to ensure the promotion of certain favoured officers.

2. Staff reports and the disciplinary process are, sometimes, cleverly used to manipulate the procedure for promotion by suddenly giving adverse markings or inventing bogus disciplinary matters to prejudice and weaken an officer’s claim for promotion at a critical time.

Right questions

Once promotions are made, these adverse markings or disciplinary charges are simply withdrawn.

3. The system for acting appointments is also abused by putting someone to “warm” the seat without confirming them, while the favoured person is given time to qualify for the promotion, or the person appointed to act reaches retirement age.

4. The granting of study leave is carefully controlled to allow favoured officers time off to better their qualifications, while denying applications from others.

This allows some to “pad” their resumes and position themselves to cash in on promotions at the expense of others. It gives them an unfair competitive edge.

The commission is supposed to be independent, but operates in a vacuum or ivory tower, as though it is unaware of the plight of those who complain about discrimination and unfair treatment. It has done nothing to alter the racial composition of the interview panels, for example. It sometimes acts as a “rubber stamp” without asking the right questions, with the result that discrimination occurs frequently. It is often a classic case of an independent body naively “clearing track for a particular ’gouti to run.”

By Anand Ramlogan

Based on his observations in the above article, it appears that the discrimination is political rather than ethnic!

Offline Jumbie

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Re: Interesting Read
« Reply #33 on: May 27, 2010, 01:41:34 PM »
Meh family will make an excellent AG!  give the man ah chance.

allyuh sounding like white people in America when black people open dey mouth.




Offline D.H.W

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Re: Interesting Read
« Reply #34 on: May 27, 2010, 02:57:08 PM »
LOL
"Evil is powerless if the good are unafraid."
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Offline congo

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Re: Interesting Read
« Reply #35 on: May 27, 2010, 03:06:10 PM »
there should have been more activists with the character of Ramlogan demanding their basic needs from the PNM instead of "PNm til ah die" mentality...having the Manning administration doing what they want cause they felt secure they will always get votes from the die hards..

UNC supporters still have the balls to say that PNM supporters are "PNM till I dead"...U all should be ashamed to even say anything close to that...When the UNC administration was swimming deep in corruption...No matter what they did, all the UNC seats still remained safe. Why no seats swinged towards the PNM during that time?..The east indians came out in their numbers and voted party...Panday and his cronies all won their seats handsomely..So because it have some ppl who don't agree with the UNC and their policies, they become "PNM till I dead"..That is bullshit...The Pnm sitting in parliament with only 12 seats what till I dead mentality you talking about.. When the PNM won the election in 2007 and Panday said blame yourself for any rape or kidnapping that took place, you also remembered Kamla coming out and saying that the PNM was a minority government and that they planned to make the country ungovernable..You have short memory right...This same woman who wearing flag pin and thing now...That wasn't unpatriotic...DO SO..!!!

On a lighter note though....I rel wish Colm Imbert lose that seat...I would gladly give up that seat to wipe that smirk off his face..!!

Offline trinindian

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Re: Interesting Read
« Reply #36 on: May 27, 2010, 03:12:56 PM »
But that last article MEP post was a good one too... I think Anand touched on some rational explanations for the

Agreeded, hence my statement that this not a denial........

Maybe ......  I living in the cold to longer and I jus jaded. But I have to ask Mr. Anand now that you tell me what wrong with society how do we change it?

How about establishing policies that require a diverse interview board at goverment agencies.

 

AirMan

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Re: Interesting Read
« Reply #37 on: May 27, 2010, 03:17:29 PM »
there should have been more activists with the character of Ramlogan demanding their basic needs from the PNM instead of "PNm til ah die" mentality...having the Manning administration doing what they want cause they felt secure they will always get votes from the die hards..

UNC supporters still have the balls to say that PNM supporters are "PNM till I dead"...U all should be ashamed to even say anything close to that...When the UNC administration was swimming deep in corruption...No matter what they did, all the UNC seats still remained safe. Why no seats swinged towards the PNM during that time?..The east indians came out in their numbers and voted party...Panday and his cronies all won their seats handsomely..So because it have some ppl who don't agree with the UNC and their policies, they become "PNM till I dead"..That is bullshit...The Pnm sitting in parliament with only 12 seats what till I dead mentality you talking about.. When the PNM won the election in 2007 and Panday said blame yourself for any rape or kidnapping that took place, you also remembered Kamla coming out and saying that the PNM was a minority government and that they planned to make the country ungovernable..You have short memory right...This same woman who wearing flag pin and thing now...That wasn't unpatriotic...DO SO..!!!

On a lighter note though....I rel wish Colm Imbert lose that seat...I would gladly give up that seat to wipe that smirk off his face..!!


..dont let your bitterness fool you I dont care for any party to that extent for you to be so emotional...most of what you said above has nothing to do with what I said regarding "Pnm til ah dead" versus "being more of an activist for what you want "..and i never said anyone cannot agree with a party policies..
« Last Edit: May 27, 2010, 03:22:35 PM by AirMan »

Offline trinindian

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Re: Interesting Read
« Reply #38 on: May 27, 2010, 03:20:29 PM »

UNC supporters still have the balls to say that PNM supporters are "PNM till I dead"...U all should be ashamed to even say anything close to that...When the UNC administration was swimming deep in corruption...No matter what they did, all the UNC seats still remained safe. Why no seats swinged towards the PNM during that time?..


Isn't this a bit rash, how else would the PNM win the election if the UNC did not loose seats. Since the previous election was tied 17.  ;)

I believe you are refering to the lost of Arima a traditional PNM strong hold. However you should also remember the Chaguanas seat that the PNM won last election. I belive what we are seeing is that soon there will be no safe seats,.
 

Offline Controversial

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Re: Interesting Read
« Reply #39 on: May 27, 2010, 03:27:14 PM »

UNC supporters still have the balls to say that PNM supporters are "PNM till I dead"...U all should be ashamed to even say anything close to that...When the UNC administration was swimming deep in corruption...No matter what they did, all the UNC seats still remained safe. Why no seats swinged towards the PNM during that time?..


Isn't this a bit rash, how else would the PNM win the election if the UNC did not loose seats. Since the previous election was tied 17.  ;)

I believe you are refering to the lost of Arima a traditional PNM strong hold. However you should also remember the Chaguanas seat that the PNM won last election. I belive what we are seeing is that soon there will be no safe seats,.

on more than a few occasions ive had conversations with anand, hes intelligent, well read and has a vision for tt, not a racist bone is his body, he states facts and has many experiences to back it up, unbiased and untainted. he has represented all ethnic groups and has seen many sides.

his articles are geared towards making the system fair, if people have a problem dealing with his facts and truth, hard luck, deal with it, he isnt lying or distorting facts, he doesnt want 100% indo power in the public sector if some feel that way. sometimes some people cant digest the facts and truth of what is going on in tt, they rather condemn than own up to the facts.

if anand's agenda proves in the next few years to be ethnically driven, then condemn, otherwise dress back and relax yuh damn self.

Offline Brownsugar

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Re: Interesting Read
« Reply #40 on: May 27, 2010, 03:30:26 PM »
I believe you are refering to the lost of Arima a traditional PNM strong hold. However you should also remember the Chaguanas seat that the PNM won last election. I belive what we are seeing is that soon there will be no safe seats,.

Just need to note here that the PNM won that Chaguanas East seat because of the split between UNC and COP....end of story....it had nothing to do with people swinging to the PNM....

2007 results           2010 results
PNM 6,757             PNM    6,717
COP 4,122             UNC   10,797
UNC 4,993
« Last Edit: May 27, 2010, 03:35:34 PM by Brownsugar »
"...If yuh clothes tear up
Or yuh shoes burst off,
You could still jump up when music play.
Old lady, young baby, everybody could dingolay...
Dingolay, ay, ay, ay ay,
Dingolay ay, ay, ay..."

RIP Shadow....The legend will live on in music...

Offline congo

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Re: Interesting Read
« Reply #41 on: May 27, 2010, 03:35:23 PM »


Isn't this a bit rash, how else would the PNM win the election if the UNC did not loose seats. Since the previous election was tied 17.  ;)

I believe you are refering to the lost of Arima a traditional PNM strong hold. However you should also remember the Chaguanas seat that the PNM won last election. I belive what we are seeing is that soon there will be no safe seats,.
[/quote]

Breads that Chaguanas seat was won because of the split vote between the UNC and COP...But in this election we have seen a complete swing in PNM seats not becoming marginal but being won by the oppostion..That is all that I am pointing out and people still saying stuff like "PNM till I dead" and we have the facts and figures to show that this isn't the case...!!

Offline trinindian

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Re: Interesting Read
« Reply #42 on: May 27, 2010, 03:44:45 PM »
So are we saying that in 2005? Those that vote for the COP were disenfranchised UNC Only and no disenfranchised PNM. Well I don't wrk for the EBC so can't argue otherwise and I guess they will always be a majority of safe seats and the election will be decided by a few. 

 
 

Offline congo

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Re: Interesting Read
« Reply #43 on: May 27, 2010, 03:53:30 PM »
So are we saying that in 2005? Those that vote for the COP were disenfranchised UNC Only and no disenfranchised PNM. Well I don't wrk for the EBC so can't argue otherwise and I guess they will always be a majority of safe seats and the election will be decided by a few. 

 

So with all the disenfranchisement going on why not one of the UNC safeseats swing towards the PNM or The COP??? When it comes to the PNM supporters they are seen as "PNM till I dead supporters" but Unc supporters are seen as unc till I dead but rather  "Die Hard Unc"

Offline Brownsugar

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Re: Interesting Read
« Reply #44 on: May 27, 2010, 03:55:30 PM »
So are we saying that in 2005? Those that vote for the COP were disenfranchised UNC Only and no disenfranchised PNM. Well I don't wrk for the EBC so can't argue otherwise and I guess they will always be a majority of safe seats and the election will be decided by a few. 

 

I can't see there being that many disenfranchised PNM supporters voting for the COP back in 2007.  The UDeCOTT shit hadn't hit the fan as yet and things was generally nice. The bulk of those COP votes were UNC people who were vex with Panday as well as some traditional fence sitters.  JMHO.....
"...If yuh clothes tear up
Or yuh shoes burst off,
You could still jump up when music play.
Old lady, young baby, everybody could dingolay...
Dingolay, ay, ay, ay ay,
Dingolay ay, ay, ay..."

RIP Shadow....The legend will live on in music...

Offline Brownsugar

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Re: Interesting Read
« Reply #45 on: May 27, 2010, 03:56:57 PM »
So are we saying that in 2005? Those that vote for the COP were disenfranchised UNC Only and no disenfranchised PNM. Well I don't wrk for the EBC so can't argue otherwise and I guess they will always be a majority of safe seats and the election will be decided by a few. 

 

So with all the disenfranchisement going on why not one of the UNC safeseats swing towards the PNM or The COP??? When it comes to the PNM supporters they are seen as "PNM till I dead supporters" but Unc supporters are seen as unc till I dead but rather  "Die Hard Unc"

aaarrrmmm.........Congo correct me if I'm wrong but isn't it that the PNM supporters are the ones who openly declare that they are PNM till ah dead??   ??? :-\ 
"...If yuh clothes tear up
Or yuh shoes burst off,
You could still jump up when music play.
Old lady, young baby, everybody could dingolay...
Dingolay, ay, ay, ay ay,
Dingolay ay, ay, ay..."

RIP Shadow....The legend will live on in music...

Offline trinindian

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Re: Interesting Read
« Reply #46 on: May 27, 2010, 03:57:45 PM »
On the issue of a character witness, there is no need for one. The question I have is a simple one now that you have pointed out was is wrong with society.  How do we improve. One may read his articles and conclude this article confirms what I have been saying no need to apply i will never get it. Problem resolution is more than just identifying the problem.
 

Offline congo

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Re: Interesting Read
« Reply #47 on: May 27, 2010, 04:06:18 PM »
aaarrrmmm.........Congo correct me if I'm wrong but isn't it that the PNM supporters are the ones who openly declare that they are PNM till ah dead??   ??? :-\ 
[/quote]

Whether or not they openly claim to be PNM till ah dead is irrelevant because because the voting patterns have shown that it's not one party guilty of this behaviour...In this election the PNM losts a number of their safe seats....Regardless of what happened under the UNC not one of their safe seats ever swung towards the PNM so.....Till dead...I don't think so..The numbers don't show that...!!

Offline trinindian

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Re: Interesting Read
« Reply #48 on: May 27, 2010, 05:22:02 PM »
What are the so called safe seats?
Does one party have more safe seats than the other?

Edit:
You know what I really cah understand, is why you have to be a PNM till ah dead, or a UNC die hard. Is almost like we don't have minds of our own and are incapable of forming an independent opinion.

the crazy independent liberal
« Last Edit: May 27, 2010, 06:42:47 PM by trinindian »
 

Offline MEP

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Re: Interesting Read
« Reply #49 on: May 27, 2010, 08:26:26 PM »
More again..... not sure of the date though

PNM POLICE & UNC SADIQ By Anand Ramlogan

'Perception is important'. This is one of the first things I was told in law school. Picture this: a black man is tried and convicted by an all-white jury for committing a crime against a white person. Whether people say it or not, the irresistible urge and temptation is to say that race played a factor and the trial was not fair. Justice must not only be done but must appear to be done. Would it matter if these people were told that none of the jurors were racially prejudiced? Even if they weren't racial, the perception would take root. Human nature perhaps? This brings me to the media conference hosted by Police Commissioner Hilton Guy to deny that the police service was in any conspiracy with the PNM to frame UNC party organizer Sadiq Baksh. Let me put this political conspiracy allegation in its proper social context.

Our country has 2 major races almost equal in numbers. The majority of Africans vote PNM and the majority of Indians vote UNC. Ethnic voting is a fact. The hierarchy of the police service is almost 90% African from the rank of Corporal upwards. Based on our history of racial voting the perception (and reality) is that African police officers vote for and support the PNM.

This socio-political reality would be exchanged if it were the other way around, with the majority of police officers being Indians and my comments in this article would have been no different - I would have been arguing for the inclusion of more Africans in our police service. Which party does Mr Guy think the majority of his officers support - the UNC? The odds are, they support the PNM.

Lets not kid ourselves. There is a growing perception among UNC supporters(the majority of whom are Indians), that there is a tacit political alliance between the PNM and certain high-ranking powerful officers in the police service. The frequent leaks to the media during the police investigations into the airport which led to daily sensational, politically damaging headlines, the recent attack by Christopher Holder President of the Police Officers Association against Mr Panday, the secret invitation to the media to cover the private visit and search by the police of UNC Carlos John's home, and the handcuffing of Mr Baksh's harmless niece who was on voter padding changes etc reinforce this perception.

The ethnic composition of the police service is fertile ground for this growing perception. Should such an important institution and pillar of our democracy not reflect the racial composition of our society? The perception that we have a PNM-friendly police service because of the conspicuous absence of Indian officers is not going to go away. Fear and respect for the police might make people reluctant to voice this perception, but it is there. The professionalism and integrity of our present officers is no answer to this problem of perception - remember that all-white judge and jury trial - they were not racial. It is crucial that the police service reflect the ethnic composition of the society that it has to 'protect and serve". Ethnic balance inspires confidence and public trust.

In Britain, the government is redressing the historic racial imbalance in its police service. They have set up a "Positive Action Team " (PAT) to recruit non-white officers with emphasis on Indians and Africans. PAT's aim is to dismantle barriers and promote change through the visible recruitment of ethnic minorities.

What is 'positive action"? It is a term derived from the Race Relations Act which allows an organization to offer extra support, advice education and encouragement to any under represented group. PAT's role is to assist the metropolitan police in achieving its target of 25% ethnic minority officers by 2009. This is a Home office directive as set out in government policy documents "Dismantling Barriers".

PAT organizes recruitment drives in ethnic minority areas to specially target Asian and Africans. They run 'candidate support sessions' to gently encourage and persuade candidates to join the police service. The minimum height requirement has long been abolished and physical fitness is judged by reference to the candidate's height and weight. This is helpful to ethnic groups that are naturally smaller in height and built. Recruitment for the technical and administrative departments of the police service is treated differently to the rest of the service.

A survey of the police service found that "the prevailing police culture was predominantly white and male, excluding those who were different. There were varied opinions as to the level of racism in the police and in particular whether it was any more prevalent than in wider society, but its existence was not questioned. Perceptions ranged from 'inherently racist' to 'an intransigent minority'. However, officers agreed that the power and responsibilities they had meant that the police had to be seen to be better than other institutions'. (Home Office; Attitudes of People policy document 2000).

The introduction of an 'ethnic monitoring policy' for the police service in London is worthy of emulation. Indians are not an ethnic minority here. The racial gap must be bridged. The last rounds of promotions in the police service show that the racial status quo is likely to continue for the next 10-20 years with Indians continuing to be nothing more than an inconspicuous minority in the hierarchy of our police service. Mr Guy and his deputy Commissioners Messrs Snaggs and Grant must address this problem now. Preaching that the police service is not PNM without acknowledging and redressing this problem of a racial imbalance with its obvious political implications will only reinforce the perception that the service is PNM.

I shall end by quoting the first paragraph of the Equal Opportunities policy of the London police: "The Metropolitan police seek to employ a workforce which reflects the diversity of backgrounds and cultures within which we operate and provide a working environment free from any form of harassment intimidation, bullying, victimization or unjustifiable discrimination". Over to you, Mr Guy

truetrini

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Re: Interesting Read
« Reply #50 on: May 27, 2010, 09:33:44 PM »
So are we saying that in 2005? Those that vote for the COP were disenfranchised UNC Only and no disenfranchised PNM. Well I don't wrk for the EBC so can't argue otherwise and I guess they will always be a majority of safe seats and the election will be decided by a few. 
 

It has always been like this!

Offline trinindian

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Re: Interesting Read
« Reply #51 on: May 27, 2010, 10:40:44 PM »
So are we saying that in 2005? Those that vote for the COP were disenfranchised UNC Only and no disenfranchised PNM. Well I don't wrk for the EBC so can't argue otherwise and I guess they will always be a majority of safe seats and the election will be decided by a few. 
 

It has always been like this!

So is the number of seats skewed in one party's favour?
 

truetrini

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Re: Interesting Read
« Reply #52 on: May 27, 2010, 11:04:51 PM »
So are we saying that in 2005? Those that vote for the COP were disenfranchised UNC Only and no disenfranchised PNM. Well I don't wrk for the EBC so can't argue otherwise and I guess they will always be a majority of safe seats and the election will be decided by a few. 
 

It has always been like this!

So is the number of seats skewed in one party's favour?

I would say yes, PNM's becasue indians live typically in fewer areas and in more densely populated areas too.  But that has changed with many moving into more northern and western areas, additionally, PNM has ruled for longer and had ample opportunity to move their supporters into government homes.

One thing I have noticed this last election is that many dyed in the wool PNMites stated very openly that they were NOT going to vote PNM becasue their PM had lost touch with them and their wishes.

One group said quite candidly that past PNm governments took care of their people, but Manning and this government betrayed them, and gave everything to a white trini born in Canada.  We all know who they talking about.
They say hospital broken, schools broken ut is summit and big buildings and smelter.

Manning clearly lost touch with his supporters and most citizens.  The media played a crucial role in the rout too.  They were very harsh and even when he did good they questioned him, he had become that polarizing.
I think the turning point in this whole thing really occured when he stormed into the radio station.

His referring to himself in third person and Jack warner!

Don't understate the part warner played in this whole revolution of sorts.  from ramesh to panday to Manning....common thread= Jack Warner.

Offline Socapro

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Re: Interesting Read
« Reply #53 on: May 28, 2010, 12:59:50 AM »
So are we saying that in 2005? Those that vote for the COP were disenfranchised UNC Only and no disenfranchised PNM. Well I don't wrk for the EBC so can't argue otherwise and I guess they will always be a majority of safe seats and the election will be decided by a few. 
 

It has always been like this!

So is the number of seats skewed in one party's favour?

I would say yes, PNM's becasue indians live typically in fewer areas and in more densely populated areas too.  But that has changed with many moving into more northern and western areas, additionally, PNM has ruled for longer and had ample opportunity to move their supporters into government homes.

One thing I have noticed this last election is that many dyed in the wool PNMites stated very openly that they were NOT going to vote PNM becasue their PM had lost touch with them and their wishes.

One group said quite candidly that past PNm governments took care of their people, but Manning and this government betrayed them, and gave everything to a white trini born in Canada.  We all know who they talking about.
They say hospital broken, schools broken ut is summit and big buildings and smelter.

Manning clearly lost touch with his supporters and most citizens.  The media played a crucial role in the rout too.  They were very harsh and even when he did good they questioned him, he had become that polarizing.
I think the turning point in this whole thing really occured when he stormed into the radio station.

His referring to himself in third person and Jack warner!

Don't understate the part warner played in this whole revolution of sorts.  from ramesh to panday to Manning....common thread= Jack Warner.


Jack Warner, the devil himself!  :devil:
Reminds me of that horror movie where the Devil becomes the President of America!
Was it "The Omen" or "Exorcist"? But allyuh should know the one!
We got to watch Jack with even more of a hawk's eye now and say allyuh prayers!  8)
« Last Edit: May 28, 2010, 01:10:18 AM by Socapro »
De higher a monkey climbs is de less his ass is on de line, if he works for FIFA that is! ;-)

Offline just cool

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Re: Interesting Read
« Reply #54 on: May 28, 2010, 01:10:26 AM »
Putting his football missjudgments and bad business dealings aside, i actually think warner would make ah good politician. is just that he's ah bad pay master, and ah bandit in his former private business dealings. but i think all that's about to change....... (hopefully :nailbiting: ) .
The pen is mightier than the sword, Africa for Africans home and abroad.Trinidad is not my home just a pit stop, Africa is my destination,final destination the MOST HIGH.

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Re: Interesting Read
« Reply #55 on: May 28, 2010, 01:12:30 AM »
Ah boy TT, or should i say jackmanday. :devil:  ah see yuh recover from dat cut skin on monday. doh worry , like black stalin said in his song " better day are coming". :devil:
The pen is mightier than the sword, Africa for Africans home and abroad.Trinidad is not my home just a pit stop, Africa is my destination,final destination the MOST HIGH.

Offline Socapro

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Re: Interesting Read
« Reply #56 on: May 28, 2010, 01:16:57 AM »
Putting his football missjudgments and bad business dealings aside, i actually think warner would make ah good politician. is just that he's ah bad pay master, and ah bandit in his former private business dealings. but i think all that's about to change....... (hopefully :nailbiting: ) .

Good politician? Isn't that an oxymoron?  :-\
De higher a monkey climbs is de less his ass is on de line, if he works for FIFA that is! ;-)

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Re: Interesting Read
« Reply #57 on: May 28, 2010, 01:50:11 AM »
Airman, yuh bias bad!! yuh cyar compare the african american struggle wid the indo trini's. the last time indo trinis was discriminated against on a political level was during the colonial era. when DR williams was PM, no group benefited more than the indo trini community, and that's ah fact!!

it was not a result of the labor party, cappeldeo, panday,  or the colonial crumbs that fell from the elizabeth's table, but rather the independent movement particularly the williams PNM regime and the black power struggle! as a matter of fact, indo trinis benefited more from the black power uprising and the williams regime moreso than nigger charlie himself!!

one day, when the place mellow out, take ah walk or ah drive through the PNM strong hold, EDR behind the bridge and see how underprivileged the place is. ppl still livin in tenements and shitting in back yard latrines, wid barley any running water and dilapidated roads.

during that era, eric williams give loads of agricultural loans to rural farmers which indians make up the bulk, and free government farm land, but only gave his main supporters POS east, 10 days/ welfare (d.e.w.d). remember, when the british abolished slavery and brought in indentured labor, the indians made up the majority, while most african headed in the rural parts of the country seeking employment, 

is there the indian community lucked out in the post colonial era, that's BC most farm land was in rural waller field and central trinidad which is heavily populated by indo trinis. very few afro trinis knew anything about farming , and had no interest in farming save ah few.

to me this ramlogan fella have an axe tuh grind, and i doh blame him, BC indians were given a negative image in the local media and social circuit, that's majorly BC most indians lived isolated from the rest of the population ( which is their own damn fault) but as far as in-opportunity? nahhhh,  they were never denied.
The pen is mightier than the sword, Africa for Africans home and abroad.Trinidad is not my home just a pit stop, Africa is my destination,final destination the MOST HIGH.

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Re: Interesting Read
« Reply #58 on: May 28, 2010, 01:51:04 AM »
Putting his football missjudgments and bad business dealings aside, i actually think warner would make ah good politician. is just that he's ah bad pay master, and ah bandit in his former private business dealings. but i think all that's about to change....... (hopefully :nailbiting: ) .

Good politician? Isn't that an oxymoron?  :-\
Quite so, but even the devil deserve ah chance tuh change his ways.
The pen is mightier than the sword, Africa for Africans home and abroad.Trinidad is not my home just a pit stop, Africa is my destination,final destination the MOST HIGH.

Offline sammy

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Re: Interesting Read
« Reply #59 on: May 28, 2010, 03:54:33 AM »
indians benefited from under the pnm to an extent, but they worked hard to be where dey is. Not all indians had land,  however the family structure instilled good moral upbringing and strong emphasis on education so that the next generations wont have to toil in the fields. Education was there for the Africans under the pnm as well. One group made their businesses starting from small, and made their careers from studies, another group benefited more from the PSA and other gov't jobs.
"Giving away something in charity does not cause any decrease in a person's wealth, but increases it instead. The person who adopt humility for the sake of Allah is exalted in ranks by Him".
(Muslim)

 

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