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Offline Sam

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Patrick Manning's secret church come crashing down.
« on: July 01, 2010, 04:26:09 AM »
'JESUS' CHURCH COLLAPSES
By Nalinee Seelal and Ralph Banwarie Thursday, July 1 2010


The unfinished dome of the controversial Lighthouse of Our Lord Jesus Christ at the Heights of Guanapo yesterday came crashing down injuring a 30-year-old man who was in the process of removing construction materials from the site.

Reports revealed that at about 4.30 pm, the man who is from the outskirts of Arima, along with others were removing clay blocks, steel and other materials left behind at the site when the steel roof of the church caved in causing steel blocks to fall to the ground injuring the man.

He was pulled from the rubble by an accomplice who took him to the Arima hospital where he was being treated up to late yesterday. The man has not been identified. A television report last night said a second person was injured.

A report was made to the Arima Police Station and a party of officers went to the site. When they arrived they found the dome of the church collapsed and a group of people from the Guanapo area gathered around. The officers viewed the damage and spoke briefly to a few persons at the church site, then telephoned their superiors and left.

Officers told Newsday that because they do not know who is the owner of the church they cannot take any action against any member of the public but will be interviewing the injured man who was taken to the Arima Hospital.

Their position is the same as the one taken by Acting Police Commissioner James Philbert, who has previously said the police could not secure the church site unless they knew who owned it.

When Newsday arrived at the collapsed church structure a woman, who preferred not to be named, said, “This thing brought tears to my eyes because we the taxpayers had been clamouring for Government to instruct the police and army to secure the church site but nothing was done. Even after reports surfaced of widespread looting the police took no action and now one man is injured and no one in authority, not even the Government, has shown any interest in the matter.”

She said based on her own information, within the past month several persons have been turning up at the church site removing steel, blocks, galvanise sheets, nails, cement and other materials and no one in authority tried to make the site a restricted area.

She believes that because the Chinese workmen, hired by Shanghai Construction Group (SCG), were forced to hurriedly leave the structure, shortly before the General Election in May, they did not properly construct the dome of the church. As looters picked apart the structure it became weak, collapsing yesterday.

Another man said the area around the church was prone to land slippage and a close view revealed several cracks in and around the site.

Despite yesterday’s collapse and after the police left the site members of the public continued to cart away clay blocks and other materials.

The church is reportedly owned by Rev Juliana Pena, the spiritual adviser of former Prime Minister Patrick Manning, and was reportedly being built at a cost of $30 million.

The church became the centre of a controversy last year when then Opposition MP Jack Warner claimed it was being built with the use of taxpayers dollars.

This was strongly denied by Manning, who in a statement to the Parliament, insisted that the then PNM Government had nothing to do with the church and that no State funds were used in its construction.

The Urban Development Corporation of Trinidad and Tobago (Udecott) had also issued a statement distancing itself from the construction of the church.

However, no one could say how SCG, which also built the Prime Minister’s Residence and Diplomatic Centre, St Ann’s for Manning, became involved in the church construction and why Chinese workmen were deployed there.

A week before the May 24 General Election, Warner and UNC political leader Kamla Persad-Bissessar disclosed copies of plans for the church and the Prime Minister’s Residence, as well as emails between architect Stephen Mendes and former Udecott chairman Calder Hart, alleging a link between the two projects. The correspondence indicated that Hart introduced Mendes to Pena, and gave her advice about the project for free.

Since then Mendes confirmed in a statement that he had met Manning about the church construction. Mendes has distanced himself from the project, saying he is not the owner of the church.

Warner and Persad-Bissessar, who are now respectively the Works and Transport Minister and the Prime Minister, had submitted their documents to the Director of Public Prosecutions, the police and the Office of the Attorney General. Also a complaint against Manning in relation to the church project has been filed with the Integrity Commission.

The Fraud Squad, which is investigating Warner and Persad-Bissessar’s complaint, went to SCG’s office in Port-of-Spain and seized plans for the church and the Prime Minister’s Residence. Fraud Squad officers said their investigation is continuing, but expressed surprise to learn the dome of the church had collapsed.

Late yesterday, Newsday tried to reach SCG managing director Michael Zhang, however, calls to his cellphone went unanswered.

Udecott chairman Jearlean John was also unavailable for comment and she was reported to be on a tour with Minister of Planning Mary King at the Tarouba stadium.

Attorney General Anand Ramlogan has criticised the Intergrity Commission for not taking action to secure the church site as it investigates the complaint of misconduct in public office against Manning. Ramlogan said the Integrity Commission could ask the police to take possession of the site as part of its investigation. Neither Ramlogan nor National Security Minister John Sandy could be reached for comment.

Via a press release yesterday, it was revealed that the Attorney General maintained his position that the Integrity Commission should have solicited the assistance of the police, or the Commissioner of Police should have intervened to prevent this “boldfaced theft” of what is alleged to be materials illegally purchased with State funds.



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AirMan

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Re: Patrick Manning's secret church come crashing down.
« Reply #1 on: July 01, 2010, 08:10:36 AM »
Well done..

Offline D.H.W

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Re: Patrick Manning's secret church come crashing down.
« Reply #2 on: July 01, 2010, 08:36:07 AM »
 :devil:
"Evil is powerless if the good are unafraid."
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truetrini

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Re: Patrick Manning's secret church come crashing down.
« Reply #3 on: July 01, 2010, 11:02:51 AM »
Well done..

yuh is ah real f**king dunce!

Offline D.H.W

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Re: Patrick Manning's secret church come crashing down.
« Reply #4 on: July 01, 2010, 11:13:27 AM »
 :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: oh lord never a dull day here. 
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Offline congo

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Re: Patrick Manning's secret church come crashing down.
« Reply #5 on: July 01, 2010, 12:32:30 PM »
Steups this makes no f**king sense whatsoever....This government seems to be playing politics with this issue....WHy didn't the state move in to secure the assets seeing as allegations being made that it is being built with taxpayers money...If the state has no jurisdiction and can't secure the church then why is a case even being made out...I just saw the Attorney General talking one pack of sh%t on tv saying that it's the Commisioner of Police fault that the church wasn't secured, yet on the next hand saying that they have no idea who the church belongs too..Where's the building permits?, where's town and country forms?...where are the land deeds?? How can you not know who the church belongs too? They can stop Calder hart from selling his home but they can't stop the church from being looted..This seems to political to me..Would this looting have been allowed had it been a mosque or a Temple??
These ppl fail to realise that they are the state now..This is their responsibility. This was a huge issue during the election and I would hope something come out of it

Offline sammy

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Re: Patrick Manning's secret church come crashing down.
« Reply #6 on: July 01, 2010, 12:35:07 PM »
Steups this makes no f**king sense whatsoever....This government seems to be playing politics with this issue....WHy didn't the state move in to secure the assets seeing as allegations being made that it is being built with taxpayers money...If the state has no jurisdiction and can't secure the church then why is a case even being made out...I just saw the Attorney General talking one pack of sh%t on tv saying that it's the Commisioner of Police fault that the church wasn't secured, yet on the next hand saying that they have no idea who the church belongs too..Where's the building permits?, where's town and country forms?...where are the land deeds?? How can you not know who the church belongs too? They can stop Calder hart from selling his home but they can't stop the church from being looted..This seems to political to me..Would this looting have been allowed had it been a mosque or a Temple??
These ppl fail to realise that they are the state now..This is their responsibility. This was a huge issue during the election and I would hope something come out of it

what mosque or temple have to do with it- or i forget, is no christians in the PP
------------
- sad to see the church and all money just gone to waste yes and is even sadder seeing how trini does behave.
« Last Edit: July 01, 2010, 12:37:11 PM by sammy »
"Giving away something in charity does not cause any decrease in a person's wealth, but increases it instead. The person who adopt humility for the sake of Allah is exalted in ranks by Him".
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Offline congo

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Re: Patrick Manning's secret church come crashing down.
« Reply #7 on: July 01, 2010, 12:39:53 PM »
Dread if it was a mosque or a temple, there would have been outrage let's be reallll...But ppl see this church as being built by some small sect or born again...I'm a Roman Catholic, and if this was a Roman catholic church we wouldn't hear the end of it...At the end of the day, it is our tax payers money that allegedly built this, so the state was suppose to secure it...

Offline sammy

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Re: Patrick Manning's secret church come crashing down.
« Reply #8 on: July 01, 2010, 01:15:32 PM »
Dread if it was a mosque or a temple, there would have been outrage let's be reallll...But ppl see this church as being built by some small sect or born again...I'm a Roman Catholic, and if this was a Roman catholic church we wouldn't hear the end of it...At the end of the day, it is our tax payers money that allegedly built this, so the state was suppose to secure it...

i agree with u about the state should've protect it, but i dont think bringing hindu or muslim have anything to do with it.

The owners/funders of the church should be upfront with the outrage but obviously they all hiding.
"Giving away something in charity does not cause any decrease in a person's wealth, but increases it instead. The person who adopt humility for the sake of Allah is exalted in ranks by Him".
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Offline Jah Gol

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Re: Patrick Manning's secret church come crashing down.
« Reply #9 on: July 01, 2010, 03:12:20 PM »
Steups this makes no f**king sense whatsoever....This government seems to be playing politics with this issue....WHy didn't the state move in to secure the assets seeing as allegations being made that it is being built with taxpayers money...If the state has no jurisdiction and can't secure the church then why is a case even being made out...I just saw the Attorney General talking one pack of sh%t on tv saying that it's the Commisioner of Police fault that the church wasn't secured, yet on the next hand saying that they have no idea who the church belongs too..Where's the building permits?, where's town and country forms?...where are the land deeds?? How can you not know who the church belongs too? They can stop Calder hart from selling his home but they can't stop the church from being looted..This seems to political to me..Would this looting have been allowed had it been a mosque or a Temple??
These ppl fail to realise that they are the state now..This is their responsibility. This was a huge issue during the election and I would hope something come out of it
The whole church v mosque/temple thing isn't an issue at all under these circumstances. I agree with the rest of the statement though.

Offline Deeks

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Re: Patrick Manning's secret church come crashing down.
« Reply #10 on: July 01, 2010, 03:19:07 PM »
Dread if it was a mosque or a temple, there would have been outrage let's be reallll...But ppl see this church as being built by some small sect or born again...I'm a Roman Catholic, and if this was a Roman catholic church we wouldn't hear the end of it...At the end of the day, it is our tax payers money that allegedly built this, so the state was suppose to secure it...

i agree with u about the state should've protect it, but i dont think bringing hindu or muslim have anything to do with it.

The owners/funders of the church should be upfront with the outrage but obviously they all hiding.


Sammy I beg to differ. This church thing has shown how screwed Patrick was. How they can find out who the church belongs? Ludicrus
                              Had that been a mosque, mandir, catholic, Anglican or Baptist place of worship,  there would have be an out cry.

Offline congo

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Re: Patrick Manning's secret church come crashing down.
« Reply #11 on: July 01, 2010, 04:23:24 PM »
Yeah but that's what wrong abt this whole thing...Somebody had to hide the paperwork and change up names and shred this and shred that...This whole thing is a joke just like that jokey architect who before the election remains silent citing health reasons but as soon as elections done come out and say "PM" stands for Prime Minister?? Is either you have morals or you don't..Somebody put a gun to his head and tell him to draw up these plans or something? STEUUUPPPSSS

Offline zuluwarrior

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Re: Patrick Manning's secret church come crashing down.
« Reply #12 on: July 01, 2010, 04:48:35 PM »
Nobody seems to know who own the church ,so dey say .
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Offline Bitter

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Re: Patrick Manning's secret church come crashing down.
« Reply #13 on: July 01, 2010, 05:06:18 PM »
Apparently the owners carting away the church brick by brick
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AirMan

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Re: Patrick Manning's secret church come crashing down.
« Reply #14 on: July 02, 2010, 08:17:22 AM »
Well done..

yuh is ah real f**king dunce!

BWAHAHA  :rotfl:  ..I see yuh still toting feeling for yuh project manager Patos and his church..
« Last Edit: July 02, 2010, 08:24:36 AM by AirMan »

truetrini

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Re: Patrick Manning's secret church come crashing down.
« Reply #15 on: July 02, 2010, 10:51:11 AM »
Well done..

yuh is ah real f**king dunce!

BWAHAHA  :rotfl:  ..I see yuh still toting feeling for yuh project manager Patos and his church..

excuse me, under normal conditions I doh engage in asshole arguments, especially when you have so much experience eh, but the church if built with public funds should NOT be allowed to be looted, it should not be looted under any circumstance!

it is fascinating to see how much of an asshole yuh really is, especially since yuh was quick to point out all the crime in T&T under de PNM, now under your government's patronage it seems ok...asshole and dunce yuh really is both combined...like ah how orange juice and vodka does mix good, asshole and dunce fits you to a tee!

while you and the rest ah c**ts laugh, crime goes on unabated in T&T.

Offline congo

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Re: Patrick Manning's secret church come crashing down.
« Reply #16 on: July 02, 2010, 03:56:39 PM »
I just find it funny that a church that is allegedly being built with tax payers money is not being secured by the state and looters are having a field day..Makes you wonder if the present government is making an excuse to say that investigations can't continuee because of a lack of evidence...!!!

Saw the blimp monitoring traffic yesterday....The same blimp that was accused of macoing and being a waste of money now being "effectively" used monitoring trafffic..!!!

Offline sammy

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Re: Patrick Manning's secret church come crashing down.
« Reply #17 on: July 02, 2010, 05:14:42 PM »
I just find it funny that a church that is allegedly being built with tax payers money is not being secured by the state and looters are having a field day..Makes you wonder if the present government is making an excuse to say that investigations can't continuee because of a lack of evidence...!!!

Saw the blimp monitoring traffic yesterday....The same blimp that was accused of macoing and being a waste of money now being "effectively" used monitoring trafffic..!!!
u really feel they will investigate that church and jail manning? i feel alla dem have each other backs yes.
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Offline lefty

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Re: Patrick Manning's secret church come crashing down.
« Reply #18 on: July 02, 2010, 06:02:11 PM »
u really feel they will investigate that church and jail manning? i feel alla dem have each other backs yes.

an dat is d ting right dere d whole system rutten,.....................yuh ever get d feelin dat somebody some where does be writing ah script an dese clowns does be acting it out..................it does jus feel so "unreal" sometimes wit we gov'ts it not jokey
I pity the fool....

Offline congo

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Re: Patrick Manning's secret church come crashing down.
« Reply #19 on: July 02, 2010, 06:54:31 PM »
LOL a very bad movie at that..This Attorney General at war with everybody...He at war with the Integrity Commision, reading out an identical lists to the one provided by the Indo Trinidadian equality commision's regarding cases that are being investigated by the Integrity Commision all because they dare give an opinion on Jack..He at odds with the DPP, COP and his Minister of National Security..Since when the attorney general has the power to revoke or appoint a commisioner of police..This man needs to learn his boundaries...He could blame the police how much he wants they are now all part and parcel of each other....The State..!!

Offline Controversial

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Re: Patrick Manning's secret church come crashing down.
« Reply #20 on: July 02, 2010, 08:07:55 PM »
LOL a very bad movie at that..This Attorney General at war with everybody...He at war with the Integrity Commision, reading out an identical lists to the one provided by the Indo Trinidadian equality commision's regarding cases that are being investigated by the Integrity Commision all because they dare give an opinion on Jack..He at odds with the DPP, COP and his Minister of National Security..Since when the attorney general has the power to revoke or appoint a commisioner of police..This man needs to learn his boundaries...He could blame the police how much he wants they are now all part and parcel of each other....The State..!!

yes they are but the police have not been doing their job for donkey years. it will take time to change the system and get new people in positions to do better for the nation. it is not an overnight task, anyone who knows about law enforcement will know about this.

Offline weary1969

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Re: Patrick Manning's secret church come crashing down.
« Reply #21 on: July 02, 2010, 08:17:37 PM »
LOL a very bad movie at that..This Attorney General at war with everybody...He at war with the Integrity Commision, reading out an identical lists to the one provided by the Indo Trinidadian equality commision's regarding cases that are being investigated by the Integrity Commision all because they dare give an opinion on Jack..He at odds with the DPP, COP and his Minister of National Security..Since when the attorney general has the power to revoke or appoint a commisioner of police..This man needs to learn his boundaries...He could blame the police how much he wants they are now all part and parcel of each other....The State..!!

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Offline Jah Gol

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Re: Patrick Manning's secret church come crashing down.
« Reply #22 on: July 02, 2010, 08:34:57 PM »
LOL a very bad movie at that..This Attorney General at war with everybody...He at war with the Integrity Commision, reading out an identical lists to the one provided by the Indo Trinidadian equality commision's regarding cases that are being investigated by the Integrity Commision all because they dare give an opinion on Jack..He at odds with the DPP, COP and his Minister of National Security..Since when the attorney general has the power to revoke or appoint a commisioner of police..This man needs to learn his boundaries...He could blame the police how much he wants they are now all part and parcel of each other....The State..!!

yes they are but the police have not been doing their job for donkey years. it will take time to change the system and get new people in positions to do better for the nation. it is not an overnight task, anyone who knows about law enforcement will know about this.
The UNC refused to support legislation to allow for these changes to take place when they were in opposition. Admittedly Ramlogan wasn't there at the time. But I get a feeling that he is making public statements off the cuff without proper communication with the parties concerned.

By the 2nd week of government he made a statement about laptops for children. This was after Ministers had been selected. You would think that he would defer any statement on that issue to the Minister of Education. 

I think he is a little giddy by these new heights.

Offline weary1969

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Re: Patrick Manning's secret church come crashing down.
« Reply #23 on: July 02, 2010, 08:49:34 PM »
LOL a very bad movie at that..This Attorney General at war with everybody...He at war with the Integrity Commision, reading out an identical lists to the one provided by the Indo Trinidadian equality commision's regarding cases that are being investigated by the Integrity Commision all because they dare give an opinion on Jack..He at odds with the DPP, COP and his Minister of National Security..Since when the attorney general has the power to revoke or appoint a commisioner of police..This man needs to learn his boundaries...He could blame the police how much he wants they are now all part and parcel of each other....The State..!!

yes they are but the police have not been doing their job for donkey years. it will take time to change the system and get new people in positions to do better for the nation. it is not an overnight task, anyone who knows about law enforcement will know about this.
The UNC refused to support legislation to allow for these changes to take place when they were in opposition. Admittedly Ramlogan wasn't there at the time. But I get a feeling that he is making public statements off the cuff without proper communication with the parties concerned.

By the 2nd week of government he made a statement about laptops for children. This was after Ministers had been selected. You would think that he would defer any statement on that issue to the Minister of Education. 

I think he is a little giddy by these new heights.

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Offline Brownsugar

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Re: Patrick Manning's secret church come crashing down.
« Reply #24 on: July 03, 2010, 05:47:59 AM »
Whey Pena??  Dais all I want to know....
"...If yuh clothes tear up
Or yuh shoes burst off,
You could still jump up when music play.
Old lady, young baby, everybody could dingolay...
Dingolay, ay, ay, ay ay,
Dingolay ay, ay, ay..."

RIP Shadow....The legend will live on in music...

Offline zuluwarrior

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Re: Patrick Manning's secret church come crashing down.
« Reply #25 on: July 03, 2010, 06:19:09 AM »
Ag CoP Williams: Surveillance at church
Saturday, July 3 2010

click on pic to zoom inON PATROL: An unidentified man, said to be an official from a Government Ministry, speaks to police officers yesterday at the construction site of the...ACTING Commissioner of Police Stephen Williams, who is deputising for James Philbert who is out of the country for the next six days, yesterday said he has ordered police to pay surveillance at the construction site of the Lighthouse of the Lord Jesus Christ church at the Heights of Guanapo starting from yesterday.

Williams said that based on his feedback, police surveillance is continuing around the clock.

However, when Newsday visited the church site yesterday, persons were seen removing materials from the church site.

Police officers told Newsday that while they are to pay close surveillance, they cannot arrest anyone because they do not know who the owner of the church is and no formal complaint has been made by the owner of the materials at the church site about pilfering.

Yesterday the widespread looting at the church continued, and Newsday was informed that police patrolled the area along with Defence Force personnel, but no one was detained.

A trailer was seen at the site and persons were seen loading materials into this trailer.

Up to yesterday the police had no instructions to make the site a restricted area.

Deputy Police Commissioner Stephen Williams, who will act for Ag Police Commissioner James Philbert who is out of the country, said yesterday that he has issued fresh instructions to the police to pay surveillance at the church at the Heights of Guanapo starting from yesterday.

Williams told Newsday that he also learnt that Philbert had also given instructions to the police to pay surveillance at the church site.

He added that based on his feedback the surveillance is continuing round the clock.

Yesterday, officers of the Northern Division arrested two persons for unlawful possession after they were allegedly found with material belonging to the church.

The two men, aged 23 and 24 of no fixed place of abode, were held with materials including wood and steel.

Officers also seized a vehicle containing material traced to the church site. The driver of the truck could not be found, but officers seized a welding torch and steel rods which were taken along with the truck to the Arima Police Station.

Police officers told Newsday that persons can be charged with unlawful possession, even if an owner does not exist. The two held yesterday will appear before an Arima magistrate on Monday, however, legal sources said that the charges could be thrown out because Shanghai Construction Group, the owner of the items, have refused to claim the items and due to this technicality the arrested persons could very well be freed.

 
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Offline Deeks

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Re: Patrick Manning's secret church come crashing down.
« Reply #26 on: July 03, 2010, 10:16:46 AM »
Whether is gov't funded or private financed church or place of worship of any denomination, this should not be happening

Offline warmonga

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Re: Patrick Manning's secret church come crashing down.
« Reply #27 on: July 03, 2010, 02:26:38 PM »
WRONG!!!!!! Nuh matter how it was paid for it is a placwe of god no madir, mosque or church or any other place of god should be demolish in this fashion!!!!!!!!!

war
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