Best penalty ever?...

[Blue]

Of course you don't.  Which was the first World Cup that the US ever qualified for? Let's focus on answering that one for now.

1934

Although I am a football history ball jumbie, I still not update date on the qualification/invitation scenario. I know in the first WC and a couple after that, the teams used to be invited. In the first WC most Euro teams declined. It too far, the conditions to primitive, etc, etc. When the WC start to be a hit, more countries wanted to play and they started qualifications. Had the US ever quaklfied before 1990. Did they get an invite for the Brasil 1950 or did they qualify. How may times did get invitation and how many times did they qualify?

I think USA qualified for 1950 (i.e. they were not invited). Doh know about the tournaments before that; thought they might have been invited before then, but I assume Zeppo has done his research.

Anyhow, f**k Paul Caligiuri

[Zeppo]

The only World Cup that teams were invited to was the first one in 1930. The following one, in 1934, was the first one that required the teams to qualify for it. And the USA was one of the teams that qualified.

Bake n Shark is (once again) more concerned with presenting himself as the learned professor of the forum than actually getting his facts straight. But don't let him confuse you.

How someone can be so condescending and at the same time so clueless is beyond me...

[Bakes]

The only World Cup that teams were invited to was the first one in 1930. The following one, in 1934, was the first one that required the teams to qualify for it. And the USA was one of the teams that qualified.

Bake n Shark is (once again) more concerned with presenting himself as the learned professor of the forum than actually getting his facts straight. But don't let him confuse you.

How someone can be so condescending and at the same time so clueless is beyond me...

Calling the 1934 World Cup process "qualification" is like calling the US Baseball Championship the "World" Series.  Teams petitioned to be a part of the World Cup and FIFA either selected you to be part of the 32 or it didn't.  There was no open qualification, but participation by an invited few.  You then played your way into the final 16 teams.  As glorified an invitaion as ever there was. 

The same hold true for 1950... when only 13 teams participated in the entire charade... thirteen teams scraped together by FIFA since there wasn't enough interest to field a tournament, let alone qualifying. The US first "qualified" for the World Cup in the truest sense of playing its way in, in 1990.


You're more concerned with presenting the US as being superior to TnT than with the factual development of the sport in each respective land as it actually happened.  TnT dominated the sport within CONCACAF during the modern age long before the US even dreamed of becoming a player.  How an American can be so condescending and at the same time so clueless is completely understandable.

[dinho]

i aint no zeppo fan (yuh yankee imps) but i doh see how you could argue the man that Trinidad qualify before USA on any level.

We didnt beat Haiti no 5-2 in 1973. The ref disallowed 4 goals and we lost 2-1, as much as that hurts thats the plain facts. In addition, some one of the older heads posted on this site that contrary to popular sentiment, that game was by no means the be all and end all of qualification like many believe, or like it actually was in 1990.

And i dont see the point in discrediting 1934 and 1950. Slice it anyhow yuh like, Italy win their first world cup in 1934, and Uruguay win their 2nd one in 1950. Try telling a uruguayan their World Cup title was a pappy show.

[Blue]

The only World Cup that teams were invited to was the first one in 1930. The following one, in 1934, was the first one that required the teams to qualify for it. And the USA was one of the teams that qualified.

Bake n Shark is (once again) more concerned with presenting himself as the learned professor of the forum than actually getting his facts straight. But don't let him confuse you.

How someone can be so condescending and at the same time so clueless is beyond me...

Calling the 1934 World Cup process "qualification" is like calling the US Baseball Championship the "World" Series.  Teams petitioned to be a part of the World Cup and FIFA either selected you to be part of the 32 or it didn't.  There was no open qualification, but participation by an invited few.  You then played your way into the final 16 teams.  As glorified an invitaion as ever there was. 

The same hold true for 1950... when only 13 teams participated in the entire charade... thirteen teams scraped together by FIFA since there wasn't enough interest to field a tournament, let alone qualifying. The US first "qualified" for the World Cup in the truest sense of playing its way in, in 1990.


You're more concerned with presenting the US as being superior to TnT than with the factual development of the sport in each respective land as it actually happened.  TnT dominated the sport within CONCACAF during the modern age long before the US even dreamed of becoming a player.  How an American can be so condescending and at the same time so clueless is completely understandable.

Well Wikipedia shows details of the 1950 north american qualifying group, so I'm a bit confused lol.

[Bakes]

i aint no zeppo fan (yuh yankee imps) but i doh see how you could argue the man that Trinidad qualify before USA on any level.

We didnt beat Haiti no 5-2 in 1973. The ref disallowed 4 goals and we lost 2-1, as much as that hurts thats the plain facts. In addition, some one of the older heads posted on this site that contrary to popular sentiment, that game was by no means the be all and end all of qualification like many believe, or like it actually was in 1990.

And i dont see the point in discrediting 1934 and 1950. Slice it anyhow yuh like, Italy win their first world cup in 1934, and Uruguay win their 2nd one in 1950. Try telling a uruguayan their World Cup title was a pappy show.

who's discrediting anything?  It wasn't a qualification process, meaning participation based openly on merit.  I never said any victory/victories wasn't legit.  How could it be qualification when in 1934 you 'qualified' only after an invitation? How could there be a qualification process when in 1950 FIFA was scrambling to fill 13 spots in the final due to lack of interest? 

As for 1973... "The ref disallowed 4 goals and we lost 2-1".  Didn't I state as much?  FIFA tacitly acknowledged the unjustness of the result by subsequently banning the Canadian official for life.  So yes, the end result is that we didn't go to West Germany, but the fact is that we won the game even if the history doesn't reflect it.  As for the game not being an "be all and end all of qualification"... the winner of the game didn't automatically qualify but it was a tournament and the winner of the tournament won the right to represent CONCACAF.  Haiti finished ahead of TnT with a record of 4 wins and 1 loss.  TnT finished with 3 wins and 2 losses.  We also had a superior goal differential. The records would have been flipped were it not for that tainted game. 

[Blue]

i aint no zeppo fan (yuh yankee imps) but i doh see how you could argue the man that Trinidad qualify before USA on any level.

We didnt beat Haiti no 5-2 in 1973. The ref disallowed 4 goals and we lost 2-1, as much as that hurts thats the plain facts. In addition, some one of the older heads posted on this site that contrary to popular sentiment, that game was by no means the be all and end all of qualification like many believe, or like it actually was in 1990.

And i dont see the point in discrediting 1934 and 1950. Slice it anyhow yuh like, Italy win their first world cup in 1934, and Uruguay win their 2nd one in 1950. Try telling a uruguayan their World Cup title was a pappy show.

who's discrediting anything?  It wasn't a qualification process, meaning participation based openly on merit.  I never said any victory/victories wasn't legit.  How could it be qualification when in 1934 you 'qualified' only after an invitation? How could there be a qualification process when in 1950 FIFA was scrambling to fill 13 spots in the final due to lack of interest?

As for 1973... "The ref disallowed 4 goals and we lost 2-1".  Didn't I state as much?  FIFA tacitly acknowledged the unjustness of the result by subsequently banning the Canadian official for life.  So yes, the end result is that we didn't go to West Germany, but the fact is that we won the game even if the history doesn't reflect it.  As for the game not being an "be all and end all of qualification"... the winner of the game didn't automatically qualify but it was a tournament and the winner of the tournament won the right to represent CONCACAF.  Haiti finished ahead of TnT with a record of 4 wins and 1 loss.  TnT finished with 3 wins and 2 losses.  We also had a superior goal differential. The records would have been flipped were it not for that tainted game. 

Sorry Bakes, but your confusion over the rationale for a qualification phase has no bearing on whether or not it actually happened. In 1950, USA came second in the qualifying group, behind Mexico, and ahead of Cuba.

[kicker]

TnT dominated the sport within CONCACAF during the modern age long before the US even dreamed of becoming a player. 

Did we? 

That might be a heavy statement.  I'd say there was an era when we dominated the Caribbean but did we ever really dominate CONCACAF?

honest question because I dunno much about T&T football before the 80's, and we weren't dominating CONCACAF then. 

[kicker]

To my knowledge, there was a qualification process for WC '50.

From what I understand alot of teams decided not to take part or withdrew after qualification because of post-WWII inability or lack of interest...FIFA tried to replace such teams by inviting others (most if not all of whom declined invitation)....but ultimately there was a contingent of teams participating in WC50 who had legitimately qualified for the tournament by playing matches.  The USA played a round robin group of matches against CUBA and Mexico and finished 2nd behind Mexico effectively qualifying for the tournament. 

[daryn]

TnT dominated the sport within CONCACAF during the modern age long before the US even dreamed of becoming a player. 

Did we? 

That might be a heavy statement.  I'd say there was an era when we dominated the Caribbean but did we ever really dominate CONCACAF?

honest question because I dunno much about T&T football before the 80's, and we weren't dominating CONCACAF then. 

I always got the impression that the performance in 1973 was somewhat of an anomaly to be honest.

We started entering WC qualification for the '66 campaign but before the 3 most recent campaigns we only advanced to the last round of qualification on two occasions: 1973 and 1989.  Not that qualifying for the Hex (or pent or whatever it was before) is the perfect metric but it really doesn't indicate that we have regressed.

[Bakes]

TnT dominated the sport within CONCACAF during the modern age long before the US even dreamed of becoming a player. 

Did we? 

That might be a heavy statement.  I'd say there was an era when we dominated the Caribbean but did we ever really dominate CONCACAF?

honest question because I dunno much about T&T football before the 80's, and we weren't dominating CONCACAF then. 

I should have said that we were a dominant force within CONCACAF... long before the US became anything.  Speaking specifically of the late 60's thru 80's.  Was trying to type in snippets on my phone during morning commute.

As for the whole qualification thing... that round robing was a three-way menage between the US, Mexico and Cuba.  Again, was an invite only process to determine who from the region would be sent to the WC.  So yeah, there was 'qualifying' if you consider those three teams played for one or two spots, but FIFA wasn't as big yet that there was open qualifying.

At the end of the day I won't persist in making it into an semantic argument, but 'qualifying' back then didn't have the same meaning as it does to us now.  Was TnT ever invited to qualify for any of those tournaments post-Independence in 1962?  Look at it another way, it took us 44 yrs to qualify, not counting 1973.  The US went almost as long between participation under the old system in 1950, and the modern process in 1989.

[Zeppo]

Sorry Bakes, but your confusion over the rationale for a qualification phase has no bearing on whether or not it actually happened. In 1950, USA came second in the qualifying group, behind Mexico, and ahead of Cuba.

Exactly. And the same holds true for 1934; FIFA held a qualification phase and the U.S. qualified. Simple as that.

[100% Barataria]

This thread (in de 2nd page) had real kicks, sorry ah come in lil late, but ah was rollin on meh bed as ah read dese responses...