Maturana versus Latapy add Wim to the mix

[AB.Trini]

Have we seen enough, not seen enough ; endured enough  questionable decisions to make some informed valid judgments on the merits of these coaches and their respective  contributions to the progress of our men\s national team program to this point. Knowing what we know now and judging by the work and approaches of these two coaches, and let's add Wim to the scenario, which of these three would  you prefer to see heading up the program if these were our choices:

 Mats
Latas
Wims

If we were to write a review of this movie that is playing before us what would this look like:

When these coaches first came on the scene, fans were flocking with a stale drunk from WC 2006 flocking to see the sequel for 2010 . Why? Preconceived notions. Thank goodness for coaches like these, they provide added thrills of suspense; just when you think we had the plot figured out as to what it takes to make it to the big screen!!!!!

These coaches' work to this point are not  masterpieces.  What they are producing  is not an academy award winning team, not a team of strategic plots, this is as sophomoric as it gets -- and that's fine for some ummm..... TTFF and their croonies. Sometimes, ya gotta fine an escape (from that high quality of WC football), and after watching the WC  who would not like some comic relief!!!!! these teams will do it.

The  coaches are perfect for their roles, every time you watch the rendition that is put on the field  uncut,  you could laugh or cry laughing knowing that we have other star performers who are being purposefully neglected for a starting role.  "How dumb can this get?" Every sequence  gets dumber.

This is one of many campaigns in a supposedly build up for 2014; it is a build up where you just will have to sit back and have fun with. Either you like this kind of humor or you don't. But the football program is in such turmoil, this is a welcomed, stupid, silly, break that hits just the right spot. I find it "stupid-funny" beyond belief to think that the TTFFF could keep spinning the same plot line and the fans still keep on flocking to fill the coffers at the box office.

[weary1969]

PLS DOH PUT MEH MAN WIM WIT DEM FELLAS.

[congo]

Maturana's record speaks for itself..Think he went to 2 world cups as a coach or something...Latapy jumped from Falkirk FC reserve coach to the National Coach of a country vying for World Cup participation....Steupsss

[Controversial]

Maturana's record speaks for itself..Think he went to 2 world cups as a coach or something...Latapy jumped from Falkirk FC reserve coach to the National Coach of a country vying for World Cup participation....Steupsss

some fellahs feel like tt to good for any coach, a bunch of bull, maturana record does speak for itself and the funny thing is he had an excellent brand & game plan against the spanish speaking countries which make up the majority of teams we have to play to qualify.

[Red Mango]

Regardless... we hadda wuk wid what we have... if Latas in de hot seat and he feel he could handle it, Amen to dat...

All I know is that since de whole scene went down with Don Leo and he ride out, we lost a very good opportunity to have our players feeding through Holland's system...

But still... Come on T&T!!!

[injunchile]

Wim was the man to continue what Leo started. it is called continuity. Despite the black list he took a local group of players and held a full compliment of Jamaican players with foreign base and foreign coach to a draw in the office. Lincoln ended that promise. The true story of the dentist is that someone undermined him from the start.

[weary1969]

Wim was the man to continue what Leo started. it is called continuity. Despite the black list he took a local group of players and held a full compliment of Jamaican players with foreign base and foreign coach to a draw in the office. Lincoln ended that promise. The true story of the dentist is that someone undermined him from the start.

CO-SIGN up 2 d undermine part. Even b4 Latas arrived there was

NO PLAN
NO BRAND
NO DURHAM

[Arazi]

Wim was the man to continue what Leo started. it is called continuity. Despite the black list he took a local group of players and held a full compliment of Jamaican players with foreign base and foreign coach to a draw in the office. Lincoln ended that promise. The true story of the dentist is that someone undermined him from the start.

That was Maturana btw.

Maturana's record speaks for itself..Think he went to 2 world cups as a coach or something...Latapy jumped from Falkirk FC reserve coach to the National Coach of a country vying for World Cup participation....Steupsss

some fellahs feel like tt to good for any coach, a bunch of bull, maturana record does speak for itself and the funny thing is he had an excellent brand & game plan against the spanish speaking countries which make up the majority of teams we have to play to qualify.

Undefeated against Spanish speaking teams, HOME AND AWAY. Buh he was a branded as a terrible coach bcuz he lost to America in America twice and some youth men let Grenada score a late goal to knock dem out the Digi.

Cues Weary's attack in....

[weary1969]

Wim was the man to continue what Leo started. it is called continuity. Despite the black list he took a local group of players and held a full compliment of Jamaican players with foreign base and foreign coach to a draw in the office. Lincoln ended that promise. The true story of the dentist is that someone undermined him from the start.

That was Maturana btw.

Maturana's record speaks for itself..Think he went to 2 world cups as a coach or something...Latapy jumped from Falkirk FC reserve coach to the National Coach of a country vying for World Cup participation....Steupsss

some fellahs feel like tt to good for any coach, a bunch of bull, maturana record does speak for itself and the funny thing is he had an excellent brand & game plan against the spanish speaking countries which make up the majority of teams we have to play to qualify.

Undefeated against Spanish speaking teams, HOME AND AWAY. Buh he was a branded as a terrible coach bcuz he lost to America in America twice and some youth men let Grenada score a late goal to knock dem out the Digi.

Cues Weary's attack in....

LET ME EH DISAPPOINT YUH

DAT  FELLA WIT D FRO MAKE BSC D GOOD OLD DAYS

[Lower St. John]

Wim should not be lumped with Latas (at least not at this stage of his coaching career) or Maturana when talking about Trinbago head football coaches.  We were a better unit minus the blacklisted players under Wim.  Plain talk, bad manners.

Blessings

[weary1969]

Wim should not be lumped with Latas (at least not at this stage of his coaching career) or Maturana when talking about Trinbago head football coaches.  We were a better unit minus the blacklisted players under Wim.  Plain talk, bad manners.

Blessings

Nah stop supportin meh man Wim dat is my wuk. Be blinded by stupidity like d rest ah d anti Wim brigade.

[kicker]

If Wim had the full complement to work with when he was in charge, and had stayed on from 2006 to now being allowed to transition the team over the past 4 years, I think we'd be leap years ahead of where we are now... 

That said I don't think Wim had any love for T&T - That was a critical missing part of the equation in my opinion. 

[daryn]

That said I don't think Wim had any love for T&T - That was a critical missing part of the equation in my opinion. 

I'm curious as to what you based that on.

[Bakes]

That said I don't think Wim had any love for T&T - That was a critical missing part of the equation in my opinion. 

I think much of Wim's issues with TnT wasn't with the country itself (although I'm sure that's not what you meant), but with the liming mentality which we embrace so much and which permeated the national lineup.  That and the issues with the TTFF.

I also agree with everything said about Pacho... people live on dat man ass for all kinda dotishness, about how he can't speak English, about he Afro... about not showin any passion, about losing to Bermuda and all kinda b.s.  As injunchile said, he was being undermined... and I will say it, by Latapy.  No way the TTFF could appoint a man assistant coach without the say-so of the coach.  Even if I give him the benefit of the doubt and say he wasn't actively undermining Pacho, he was more than happy to accept the appointment as Ass't Head Coach.  That in itself sent a message to all and sundry that Pacho wasn't in charge of the team... his departure was just a formality from that point.

[kicker]

That said I don't think Wim had any love for T&T - That was a critical missing part of the equation in my opinion. 

I'm curious as to what you based that on.

From what I remember, (which is admittedly hazy) word from his mouth whenever he had a chance to speak publicly appeared to be flavored with dissatisfaction.  I don't remember him being one to look on the bright side.  In contrast, I remember Beenie to be more of a glass half full philosophy and it endeared him to us....Wim also seemed to be one who made himself heard through confrontation...  I recognize that a major part of it (if not all of it) was probably tempered by strained relationships that he had with the administration... I'm not saying that it's a one-way street but I think that if he had developed a love for a T&T (as a country, as a culture as a people etc.), and an ensuing passion for the job despite the glaring shortcomings of our administration, he may have found a harmonious middle ground in the interest of the bigger picture.  I might be wrong but I got the sense that the T&T job was just a job for him, and that's fine but when yuh working with our administration it has to be more than just a job...    

[Socapro]

Maturana's record speaks for itself..Think he went to 2 world cups as a coach or something...Latapy jumped from Falkirk FC reserve coach to the National Coach of a country vying for World Cup participation....Steupsss

some fellahs feel like tt to good for any coach, a bunch of bull, maturana record does speak for itself and the funny thing is he had an excellent brand & game plan against the spanish speaking countries which make up the majority of teams we have to play to qualify.

Maturana was a $hit coach or whey passed his sell by date when he came to us, plain & simple!!

Why??

Because apart from the language communication problems he had with the T&T public and our players, he allowed either Jack or Latas to call most of the shots and was never properly in charge of player selection & tactics on the field, etc.
And allowing this to happen as a head coach means that you are weak and unfit for the job and was just here to collect a salary!!

I doh care what Maturana did in the past and how many World Cups he went to, he was not calling the shots while in charge of our team and should have walked away from the job much earlier rather than risk tarnishing his good record and reputation as a top international coach!

Good riddance to him, I don’t want to hear his name calling as a candidate for T&T head coach again, I prefer Latas to be in charge for at least he calls the shots and will take 100% blame for any failure under his rein as head coach unlike Maturana who tried to palm the blame off on the TTFF after silently collecting a good salary for doing $hit!!
He reminds me of Erickson if you ask me! Please don’t get me started!!
I don’t want to hear that man’s name ever again!!!
 

[Spursy]

Matas couldn't speak english, that was his major downfall. Wim.. dunno why we got rid of him. Latas... trying but no experience.

[Bakes]

Good riddance to him, I don’t want to hear his name calling as a candidate for T&T head coach again, I prefer Latas to be in charge for at least he calls the shots and will take 100% blame for any failure under his rein as head coach unlike Maturana who tried to palm the blame off on the TTFF after silently collecting a good salary for doing $hit!!

a) How you know Latas calling de shots?
b) You have any proof of Maturana ever trying to "palm the blame off on the TTFF"... or dai's just yuh spleen talking?

[palos]

PLS DOH PUT MEH MAN WIM WIT DEM FELLAS.

I agree


Mats was de best of dem by far

He qualify we fuh de HEX!  De PINNACLE of football in CONCACAF!!  De BEST 6 teams in CONCACAF!!!

Wim or Latas couldn't even do dat! 

[Arazi]

That said I don't think Wim had any love for T&T - That was a critical missing part of the equation in my opinion. 

I'm curious as to what you based that on.

From what I remember, (which is admittedly hazy) word from his mouth whenever he had a chance to speak publicly appeared to be flavored with dissatisfaction.  I don't remember him being one to look on the bright side.  In contrast, I remember Beenie to be more of a glass half full philosophy and it endeared him to us....Wim also seemed to be one who made himself heard through confrontation...  I recognize that a major part of it (if not all of it) was probably tempered by strained relationships that he had with the administration... I'm not saying that it's a one-way street but I think that if he had developed a love for a T&T (as a country, as a culture as a people etc.), and an ensuing passion for the job despite the glaring shortcomings of our administration, he may have found a harmonious middle ground in the interest of the bigger picture.  I might be wrong but I got the sense that the T&T job was just a job for him, and that's fine but when yuh working with our administration it has to be more than just a job...    

Wim regularly criticised the Pro League and several other things about the local football fraternity. He pulled no punches with regard to that.

That being said, his T&T teams played the most aesthetically pleasing brand in recent memory (even better to look at than Beenhakker's in all honesty).

Contrary to what most, or in particular Weary's opinion, I liked Wim and wished he stayed on.

I defend Pacho on this board, because as Bake n Shark pointed out, he had EVEN MORE behind the scenes issues that every ONE of the coaches mentioned in this thread had and still managed to take us to the HEX and post a winning record (including the first win against ANY US team in 14 years), yet people finding reason to dislike him (Socapro's post is a case in point).

If alyuh wanna live in denial and say he was bad for local football yet humbly accept people who giving yuh even more shit except it sprinkle with glitter, fine.

His record speaks for itself. And that includes his record with TnT.


  

[daryn]

From what I remember, (which is admittedly hazy) word from his mouth whenever he had a chance to speak publicly appeared to be flavored with dissatisfaction.  I don't remember him being one to look on the bright side.  In contrast, I remember Beenie to be more of a glass half full philosophy and it endeared him to us....Wim also seemed to be one who made himself heard through confrontation...  I recognize that a major part of it (if not all of it) was probably tempered by strained relationships that he had with the administration... I'm not saying that it's a one-way street but I think that if he had developed a love for a T&T (as a country, as a culture as a people etc.), and an ensuing passion for the job despite the glaring shortcomings of our administration, he may have found a harmonious middle ground in the interest of the bigger picture.  I might be wrong but I got the sense that the T&T job was just a job for him, and that's fine but when yuh working with our administration it has to be more than just a job...    

as far as I remember the two things people had against him were 1) that he supposedly* cancelled two friendlies (Mexico and Colombia I believe) because he didn't think the players available to him were ready for that level of opposition and 2) the interview where he talked about the laid back attitude of the players and the people. 

I remember listening to him on the radio and I didn't get the impression that he was a pessimist at all.  He said that he hadn't been paid for months but he was sticking with the job**.  This was the middle of the blacklist and he made it clear that if it were up to him the blacklist would have been rescinded.  Even so he didn't make any excuses and clearly thought we could have won the CFU tournament.  He thought highly of several of the then locally-based players (Darryl Roberts in particular). Further, he was very upset to be sent on leave.

I've heard different accounts of what happened between him and LP that led to his dismissal so I can't really say if he deserved to be dismissed on the occasion that he was but I disagree with the idea that he was pessimistic about the job.
*-I say supposedly because there is some doubt that those games were ever actually scheduled.  I think at least one of those teams played on the date that they were supposed to have played against us.  Of course it is possible that they did find a new opponent on short notice

**-the federation never denied that he wasn't being paid.   

[Socapro]

Good riddance to him, I don’t want to hear his name calling as a candidate for T&T head coach again, I prefer Latas to be in charge for at least he calls the shots and will take 100% blame for any failure under his rein as head coach unlike Maturana who tried to palm the blame off on the TTFF after silently collecting a good salary for doing $hit!!

a) How you know Latas calling de shots?
b) You have any proof of Maturana ever trying to "palm the blame off on the TTFF"... or dai's just yuh spleen talking?

I said Jack or Latas was calling the shots!
Maturana admitted that his hands were tied and he was not fully in charge when he resigned or was sacked for the bad performances in the Hex and other things prior to that like us not qualifying for the Gold Cup and that is what made me even more disgusted with him than I already was when he left!!
Allyuh men memory short yes but you can go back and check the old Hex files!!

[dinho]

That said I don't think Wim had any love for T&T - That was a critical missing part of the equation in my opinion. 

I think much of Wim's issues with TnT wasn't with the country itself (although I'm sure that's not what you meant), but with the liming mentality which we embrace so much and which permeated the national lineup.  That and the issues with the TTFF.

I also agree with everything said about Pacho... people live on dat man ass for all kinda dotishness, about how he can't speak English, about he Afro... about not showin any passion, about losing to Bermuda and all kinda b.s.  As injunchile said, he was being undermined... and I will say it, by Latapy.  No way the TTFF could appoint a man assistant coach without the say-so of the coach.  Even if I give him the benefit of the doubt and say he wasn't actively undermining Pacho, he was more than happy to accept the appointment as Ass't Head Coach.  That in itself sent a message to all and sundry that Pacho wasn't in charge of the team... his departure was just a formality from that point.

So the jokey afro aside... Not learning the language to be able to communicate with his players, losing to Bermuda at a critical phase of World Cup qualifying and not qualifying for the CONCACAF Gold Cup is 'all kinda dotishness' people was on that man for??

why... because you say so?

okkkk

[weary1969]

PLS DOH PUT MEH MAN WIM WIT DEM FELLAS.

I agree


Mats was de best of dem by far

He qualify we fuh de HEX!  De PINNACLE of football in CONCACAF!!  De BEST 6 teams in CONCACAF!!!

Wim or Latas couldn't even do dat! 

Lil difficult 2 qualify 4 d hex when u eh coachin d team. dat aside no Gc no wuk so Latas might b unemployed very soon if I was he employer.

[kicker]

as far as I remember the two things people had against him were 1) that he supposedly* cancelled two friendlies (Mexico and Colombia I believe) because he didn't think the players available to him were ready for that level of opposition and 2) the interview where he talked about the laid back attitude of the players and the people. 

I remember listening to him on the radio and I didn't get the impression that he was a pessimist at all.  He said that he hadn't been paid for months but he was sticking with the job**.  This was the middle of the blacklist and he made it clear that if it were up to him the blacklist would have been rescinded.  Even so he didn't make any excuses and clearly thought we could have won the CFU tournament.  He thought highly of several of the then locally-based players (Darryl Roberts in particular). Further, he was very upset to be sent on leave.

I've heard different accounts of what happened between him and LP that led to his dismissal so I can't really say if he deserved to be dismissed on the occasion that he was but I disagree with the idea that he was pessimistic about the job.
*-I say supposedly because there is some doubt that those games were ever actually scheduled.  I think at least one of those teams played on the date that they were supposed to have played against us.  Of course it is possible that they did find a new opponent on short notice

**-the federation never denied that he wasn't being paid.   

Good insight. Thanks

FYI: I liked him as a coach primarily based on what I saw on the field. 

[Socapro]

That said I don't think Wim had any love for T&T - That was a critical missing part of the equation in my opinion. 

I think much of Wim's issues with TnT wasn't with the country itself (although I'm sure that's not what you meant), but with the liming mentality which we embrace so much and which permeated the national lineup.  That and the issues with the TTFF.

I also agree with everything said about Pacho... people live on dat man ass for all kinda dotishness, about how he can't speak English, about he Afro... about not showin any passion, about losing to Bermuda and all kinda b.s.  As injunchile said, he was being undermined... and I will say it, by Latapy.  No way the TTFF could appoint a man assistant coach without the say-so of the coach.  Even if I give him the benefit of the doubt and say he wasn't actively undermining Pacho, he was more than happy to accept the appointment as Ass't Head Coach.  That in itself sent a message to all and sundry that Pacho wasn't in charge of the team... his departure was just a formality from that point.

So the jokey afro aside... Not learning the language to be able to communicate with his players, losing to Bermuda at a critical phase of World Cup qualifying and not qualifying for the CONCACAF Gold Cup is 'all kinda dotishness' people was on that man for??

why... because you say so?

okkkk

Doh worry wid Bakes, I think he trying to stir up a debate but well know that his argument about Mats being good for us is a lot of hog-wash!!