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Offline just cool

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Where is the defense coming from ?
« on: August 30, 2010, 05:01:54 PM »
Fellow Forumites, in two months we will begin qualifying for the digicel cup which is a prelude to the concacaf gold cup. it's ah well known fact that last yr we missed out on the GC after going to battle wid an all out "LOCAL" team. it's also ah well known fact that most of our local boys are not quite up to par, especially in the defensive department.

in the last hex it was clear to see that we suffered tuh put goals in the back on the net, but that was not the primary reason for not qualifying since we got goals against all our opponents with the exception of the USA.

our defense in the last two competitions were abysmal, with us conceding goals within the first few minutes not giving ourselves any opportunity tuh keep our opponents under pressure while stealing confidence and momentum from them in the process.

i would like to do a comprehensive analysis of our defensive options with the help of you my fellow forumites, BC if latas believes he could qualify for the gold cup with this current bunch of local defenders, then he's far more deluded than i thought.


first off, we need tuh exclude players/defenders whom we think should not be allowed tuh wear our colors under any circumstances WSE. lets start wid the trow aways,

AKLIE EDWARDS,   ABU BAKAR               MICHEAL EDWARDS       MARVIN ANDREWS
MAKAN HISLOP,    KESTON WILLIAMS    ANCIL FARRIER             SILVIO SPANN
SEON POWER     ANDRE PACHECCO       KARREM SMITH

 defenders who i think may have what it takes to play on an international level and rise to the occasion.

JULIUS JAMES (one of our best defensive options, has tons of speed with an incredable work rate)
KERN CUPID ( with a little work and a better league could prove to be a solid defender, he's very speedy and is good going forward)
JLLOYD SAMUELS ( his status speaks for it self)
ROBERTS PRIMUS  ( don't know much about this kid except what i saw in the last game against mex, very impressive performance)
JAKE THOMPSON  (not a bonified right back, but will have to do)
OSIE TELESFORD  (i like this dude's game, he's very solid in defense and has some speed, more of a defender than a midfielder IMO)
YOHANCE MARSHALL  ( knows absolutely nothing about this player, can someone elaborate, has he any speed?)

feel free to add, subtract or assess.                                  positive
« Last Edit: August 30, 2010, 06:23:30 PM by just cool »
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Offline Deeks

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Re: Where is the defense coming from ?
« Reply #1 on: August 30, 2010, 05:42:52 PM »
Anybody can give insights on Joel Williams who just left jabloteh to join the Police?

Offline Jay10

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Re: Where is the defense coming from ?
« Reply #2 on: August 30, 2010, 07:04:39 PM »
Noel Williams is more of a winger and would be no better than Akile imo.

Outside backs are our problem areas mainly, because Jloyd would probably be more useful at Cb for us. Julius James seems to be playing regularly at a good level so his pick should be there. Thompson should be ok at right back until we get someone else who is capable. I have no idea who playing LB (if Jloyd is at CB), and prolly Latas also, so dats why he always picks Akile....


Offline Deeks

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Re: Where is the defense coming from ?
« Reply #3 on: August 30, 2010, 07:18:26 PM »
Jay10,
           I coulda swear I see he playing left wing back for Jab in the CL last year. He was not too bad, but looked better than the current wing backs they have right now. I agree Jay LLyod should play center back with Julius

Offline D.H.W

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Re: Where is the defense coming from ?
« Reply #4 on: August 30, 2010, 07:29:38 PM »
stueps i give up with local football yes, we aint going no where. The women playing better than the men.
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Offline Tallman

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Re: Where is the defense coming from ?
« Reply #5 on: August 30, 2010, 07:41:14 PM »
There is also 22-year old Kevon Villaroel who is a left-back. He's starting to get regular games with the Puerto Rico Islanders this season.
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Offline just cool

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Re: Where is the defense coming from ?
« Reply #6 on: August 30, 2010, 07:45:56 PM »
stueps i give up with local football yes, we aint going no where. The women playing better than the men.
We're not playing well BC we don't have ah proper coach, and an unconcern federation to add insult. the coach picks players who has proven time and time again that they are incapable of playing football on an international level, but he continues to persist in their inclusion to his and our detriment.

i personally would love tuh give latas a chance , but he has to leave aklie , makkan, keston, silvio , clyde loen,  abu-bakar off the selection sheet if he wants to be successful. he also has to include julius james, birchall and yohance marshall in the digicel tourney if he expects tuh see the gold cup.

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Offline just cool

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Re: Where is the defense coming from ?
« Reply #7 on: August 30, 2010, 07:48:44 PM »
There is also 22-year old Kevon Villaroel who is a left-back. He's starting to get regular games with the Puerto Rico Islanders this season.
Villaroel is ah defender?? :o :o is he better than what we have?

BTW tallman, how is yohance marshall as ah central defender? is he speedy, and is he better than what we have locally @ the moment.
The pen is mightier than the sword, Africa for Africans home and abroad.Trinidad is not my home just a pit stop, Africa is my destination,final destination the MOST HIGH.

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Re: Where is the defense coming from ?
« Reply #8 on: August 30, 2010, 07:58:42 PM »
i will add cyrus and akeem adams (left back) to the list of potential players

Offline ZANDOLIE

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Re: Where is the defense coming from ?
« Reply #9 on: August 30, 2010, 08:10:28 PM »
Jay10,
           I coulda swear I see he playing left wing back for Jab in the CL last year. He was not too bad, but looked better than the current wing backs they have right now. I agree Jay LLyod should play center back with Julius

Deeks, that may be our predicament at the moment ,but by 2013 we should have some decent players ready to hold dow LB and make a positive contribution. Javed Mohammed, Adams, Daniel Cyrus in that pool...all have more potential than anything we had in that Jamaica game. Provided we bring them along and they lucky enough to get contracts in better leagues than the PFL.

There are a few other local LBs that IMO been overlooked by Latapy and Mats in the last few years...Glenton Wolfe and Nigel Daniel most come to mind.

The biggest problem is not LB, its poor depth/selection of 'natura' LWs, proficient in both attack and defensive efforts.

As far as I know is only Jagdeosigh semi-capable of that right now.

So until such time as we could find these kind of players we will be leaking left side goals like a Gasparillo stand pipe
 

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Dumplingdinho

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Re: Where is the defense coming from ?
« Reply #10 on: August 30, 2010, 08:17:18 PM »
daniel and pacheco are past their sell by date, not referring to age but how much they developed to date, none of them playing regular ball...time to move on from these guys.

Offline Tallman

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Re: Where is the defense coming from ?
« Reply #11 on: August 30, 2010, 08:45:19 PM »
There is also 22-year old Kevon Villaroel who is a left-back. He's starting to get regular games with the Puerto Rico Islanders this season.
Villaroel is ah defender?? :o :o is he better than what we have?

BTW tallman, how is yohance marshall as ah central defender? is he speedy, and is he better than what we have locally @ the moment.

I haven't seen enough of either of them to give an informed opinion. Marshall has been described as a defender who has great size and speed, but me eh know if is true or not.
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Offline just cool

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Re: Where is the defense coming from ?
« Reply #12 on: August 30, 2010, 08:45:56 PM »
Jay10,
           I coulda swear I see he playing left wing back for Jab in the CL last year. He was not too bad, but looked better than the current wing backs they have right now. I agree Jay LLyod should play center back with Julius

Deeks, that may be our predicament at the moment ,but by 2013 we should have some decent players ready to hold dow LB and make a positive contribution. Javed Mohammed, Adams, Daniel Cyrus in that pool...all have more potential than anything we had in that Jamaica game. Provided we bring them along and they lucky enough to get contracts in better leagues than the PFL.

There are a few other local LBs that IMO been overlooked by Latapy and Mats in the last few years...Glenton Wolfe and Nigel Daniel most come to mind.

The biggest problem is not LB, its poor depth/selection of 'natura' LWs, proficient in both attack and defensive efforts.

As far as I know is only Jagdeosigh semi-capable of that right now.

So until such time as we could find these kind of players we will be leaking left side goals like a Gasparillo stand pipe
 


That yute who's playing for joe public by the name of micah lewis is ah kick ass left winger wid some good defensive hustle as well, it's ah shame latas keep over lookin this kid. IMO, we good on the leftback position wid JLLoyd and cupid, it's in the other part of defense we lack, like the right back position and we also need another speedy intelligent central defender. those are the areas in which we lack talent.
The pen is mightier than the sword, Africa for Africans home and abroad.Trinidad is not my home just a pit stop, Africa is my destination,final destination the MOST HIGH.

Offline just cool

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Re: Where is the defense coming from ?
« Reply #13 on: August 30, 2010, 08:50:56 PM »
There is also 22-year old Kevon Villaroel who is a left-back. He's starting to get regular games with the Puerto Rico Islanders this season.
Villaroel is ah defender?? :o :o is he better than what we have?

BTW tallman, how is yohance marshall as ah central defender? is he speedy, and is he better than what we have locally @ the moment.

I haven't seen enough of either of them to give an informed opinion. Marshall has been described as a defender who has great size and speed, but me eh know if is true or not.
I'm hoping that it's true, BC wid these bunch of brainless turtle we have in defense these days, we surely need ah speedy central defender who could read the game well along side julius.
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Offline ZANDOLIE

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Re: Where is the defense coming from ?
« Reply #14 on: August 30, 2010, 09:29:47 PM »
Jay10,
           I coulda swear I see he playing left wing back for Jab in the CL last year. He was not too bad, but looked better than the current wing backs they have right now. I agree Jay LLyod should play center back with Julius

Deeks, that may be our predicament at the moment ,but by 2013 we should have some decent players ready to hold dow LB and make a positive contribution. Javed Mohammed, Adams, Daniel Cyrus in that pool...all have more potential than anything we had in that Jamaica game. Provided we bring them along and they lucky enough to get contracts in better leagues than the PFL.

There are a few other local LBs that IMO been overlooked by Latapy and Mats in the last few years...Glenton Wolfe and Nigel Daniel most come to mind.

The biggest problem is not LB, its poor depth/selection of 'natura' LWs, proficient in both attack and defensive efforts.

As far as I know is only Jagdeosigh semi-capable of that right now.

So until such time as we could find these kind of players we will be leaking left side goals like a Gasparillo stand pipe
 


That yute who's playing for joe public by the name of micah lewis is ah kick ass left winger wid some good defensive hustle as well, it's ah shame latas keep over lookin this kid. IMO, we good on the leftback position wid JLLoyd and cupid, it's in the other part of defense we lack, like the right back position and we also need another speedy intelligent central defender. those are the areas in which we lack talent.

JC isn't Michah Lewis a right winger? He played that in the U17 World cup and I think he plays it for Public as well. I don't think he is a natural lefty. But he is a good baller and yeah he have real hustle, if he could play LW then better for us.

There is also this youth Ryan Fredericks, also decent but dunno if he will be ready for senior football.

Javed mohammed can also handle LW. I think Kevon Neaves plays left, but like he and Aaron Downing drop out the sky.


We not too bad for future right backs....Rochford, Thompson, Curtis Gonzales, Elton John decent, Carlos in a pinch


But all the same... without a coach of the highest calibre to put things in play we going nowhere fast

« Last Edit: August 30, 2010, 09:39:42 PM by ZANDOLIE »
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Offline KND2

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Re: Where is the defense coming from ?
« Reply #15 on: August 31, 2010, 09:04:38 AM »
key to defense is the tactics, we focus too much on the individual players. It is not as simple as finding the 4 best defenders and putting  them on the field.

The coach need to figure out what is teh defensive strategy and then pick the players that can execute the startegy.

People talk about akelee edwards being a poor defender at international level but you have a man like keon Daniel playing in from of him on the wing, who does not run back which leads to 2V 1 situations which results in no chance for edwards to stop attacks down our left side. (Us game in Chicago)

the same edwards is playing for Defense force and they are giving up very few goals and dominating the pro league.

Part of being sucessful is being put in a position to succeed.

Our biggest issue with defense is that we do not realize it is a team effort.

you cannot blame one man for getting burn and being a poor defender when a major part of defending is cover.

If edwards get burn on the flank who is covering for him.


Defense is more than just finding a man who nobody can pass.
it is more complicated than that!

Offline Big Magician

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Re: Where is the defense coming from ?
« Reply #16 on: August 31, 2010, 09:22:45 AM »
It coming from TnT.. the same place it always come from
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Offline Tallman

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Re: Where is the defense coming from ?
« Reply #17 on: August 31, 2010, 09:23:46 AM »
Javed mohammed can also handle LW. I think Kevon Neaves plays left, but like he and Aaron Downing drop out the sky.

He is currently playing for T&TEC in de Super League.
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Offline just cool

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Re: Where is the defense coming from ?
« Reply #18 on: August 31, 2010, 03:05:08 PM »
key to defense is the tactics, we focus too much on the individual players. It is not as simple as finding the 4 best defenders and putting  them on the field.

The coach need to figure out what is teh defensive strategy and then pick the players that can execute the startegy.

People talk about akelee edwards being a poor defender at international level but you have a man like keon Daniel playing in from of him on the wing, who does not run back which leads to 2V 1 situations which results in no chance for edwards to stop attacks down our left side. (Us game in Chicago)

the same edwards is playing for Defense force and they are giving up very few goals and dominating the pro league.

Part of being sucessful is being put in a position to succeed.

Our biggest issue with defense is that we do not realize it is a team effort.

you cannot blame one man for getting burn and being a poor defender when a major part of defending is cover.

If edwards get burn on the flank who is covering for him.


Defense is more than just finding a man who nobody can pass.
it is more complicated than that!

That goes without saying. yuh could have the best defensive plan in place, but if yuh don't have the right players to execute the plan then it's all fall down.

as for the keon daniel aklie edwards scenario, i remember JLLoyd played against the U.S. with keon on the left side, and he did quite well with the team only conceding one goal and a spirit goal @ that. 

my philosophy, class goes a longer way than strategy, but strategy and class together is a recipe for success. those player whom i afore mentioned is not in the international class bracket, they need not apply.

as for defense force leading the pro league and aklie being part of that defensive structure. bredder do you, or have you been watching the concacaf champions league? every team we send yr after yr looks out of their league, real poor and out of sorts, it's like night and day compared to MLS and central american teams.

not dogging our league, but if yuh said aklie was playing for ah champoinship team and they were leading the league, or even an SPL team, i would be forced to reconsider, but PFL? comon KND give me a break son.
« Last Edit: August 31, 2010, 03:07:20 PM by just cool »
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Offline Arazi

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Re: Where is the defense coming from ?
« Reply #19 on: September 01, 2010, 09:39:59 AM »
key to defense is the tactics, we focus too much on the individual players. It is not as simple as finding the 4 best defenders and putting  them on the field.

The coach need to figure out what is teh defensive strategy and then pick the players that can execute the startegy.

People talk about akelee edwards being a poor defender at international level but you have a man like keon Daniel playing in from of him on the wing, who does not run back which leads to 2V 1 situations which results in no chance for edwards to stop attacks down our left side. (Us game in Chicago)

the same edwards is playing for Defense force and they are giving up very few goals and dominating the pro league.

Part of being sucessful is being put in a position to succeed.

Our biggest issue with defense is that we do not realize it is a team effort.

you cannot blame one man for getting burn and being a poor defender when a major part of defending is cover.

If edwards get burn on the flank who is covering for him.


Defense is more than just finding a man who nobody can pass.
it is more complicated than that!

That goes without saying. yuh could have the best defensive plan in place, but if yuh don't have the right players to execute the plan then it's all fall down.

as for the keon daniel aklie edwards scenario, i remember JLLoyd played against the U.S. with keon on the left side, and he did quite well with the team only conceding one goal and a spirit goal @ that. 

my philosophy, class goes a longer way than strategy, but strategy and class together is a recipe for success. those player whom i afore mentioned is not in the international class bracket, they need not apply.

as for defense force leading the pro league and aklie being part of that defensive structure. bredder do you, or have you been watching the concacaf champions league? every team we send yr after yr looks out of their league, real poor and out of sorts, it's like night and day compared to MLS and central american teams.

not dogging our league, but if yuh said aklie was playing for ah champoinship team and they were leading the league, or even an SPL team, i would be forced to reconsider, but PFL? comon KND give me a break son.

Excellent post KND2

Just Cool, i think you completely missing his point, and I will prove it using that very US game as an example.

First of all, Keon Daniel DID NOT start that game, Carlos Edwards started on the left and regularly switched flanks with Tinto.

With Carlos and or Tinto being a presence on left offensively and in the case of Carlos defensively as well, the US right back did not venture forward.

Why because it was a double gamble, he would have worry about Carlos' speed on the counter and would also have to elude him while trying to create a play going forward, making Jlloyd's job easier.

Secondly, that was probably the best defensive game we played under Latapy. We frustrated the United states because every time we lost the ball, the team worked to regain possession. Our two defensive midfielders (Leon and Noel) combined well to close down passing lanes and forced numerous errors and turnovers. Donavan was hardly allowed any time on the ball. Dempsey was a non-entity in the game.

That had nothing to do with the awesomeness of our back four, because as you say: two throwaways started that game. Abu Bakr started at CB for that game with an over the hill Dennis Lawrence. American sports media outlets almost unanimously stated Bakr was the most competent cog of our back who had to clean up errors made by Lawrence and Silvio Spann.

As for Akile and the continued ignorance of what players actually do well and when a system fails, how many goals have we actually conceded due to an error by Akile Edwards on the left?

Fact: most of the goals we concede are due to errors made by our RIGHT BACK then a lapse by the central defensive pairing.
The "spirit" goal we conceded against the US was after our right back Silvio Spann was outfoxed by Donavan and the ball played out to Clark to shoot.

And even when Akile is beaten, where is the rest of the defensive line or his cover?

Just my two cents
« Last Edit: September 01, 2010, 12:45:20 PM by Arazi »

Offline Mad Scorpion a/k/a Big Bo$$

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Re: Where is the defense coming from ?
« Reply #20 on: September 01, 2010, 02:13:17 PM »

Excellent post KND2

Just Cool, i think you completely missing his point, and I will prove it using that very US game as an example.

First of all, Keon Daniel DID NOT start that game, Carlos Edwards started on the left and regularly switched flanks with Tinto.

With Carlos and or Tinto being a presence on left offensively and in the case of Carlos defensively as well, the US right back did not venture forward.

Why because it was a double gamble, he would have worry about Carlos' speed on the counter and would also have to elude him while trying to create a play going forward, making Jlloyd's job easier.

Secondly, that was probably the best defensive game we played under Latapy. We frustrated the United states because every time we lost the ball, the team worked to regain possession. Our two defensive midfielders (Leon and Noel) combined well to close down passing lanes and forced numerous errors and turnovers. Donavan was hardly allowed any time on the ball. Dempsey was a non-entity in the game.

That had nothing to do with the awesomeness of our back four, because as you say: two throwaways started that game. Abu Bakr started at CB for that game with an over the hill Dennis Lawrence. American sports media outlets almost unanimously stated Bakr was the most competent cog of our back who had to clean up errors made by Lawrence and Silvio Spann.

As for Akile and the continued ignorance of what players actually do well and when a system fails, how many goals have we actually conceded due to an error by Akile Edwards on the left?

Fact: most of the goals we concede are due to errors made by our RIGHT BACK then a lapse by the central defensive pairing.
The "spirit" goal we conceded against the US was after our right back Silvio Spann was outfoxed by Donavan and the ball played out to Clark to shoot.

And even when Akile is beaten, where is the rest of the defensive line or his cover?

Just my two cents

Man I thought was just me that notice this phenominon in our defensive failures.  Aklie regularly gets singled out despite the fact that he has been left time and time again without no defensive help.  The fella has the tools and it must be the reason why he has earned a lion share of picks.  JC wasting Aklie who doing well in DF lineup but toutin fellas locally who playing fuh teams that eh beatin dem.  Even the game in Nashville when Mats was still coach everybody was on Aklie even though we get slaughter on the right.  In the second half Aklie stop 3 out of 4 attempts to use his Flank and launch crosses but it seems no one noticed that because it isn't ammo to use against him.  The reality is TnT has very little defensive shape and discipline and that is a coaching failure not personnel. 

JC you ha to be ah mad man to want to dash wey Clyde Leon.  Wha variety ah f**kry is dat yuh really on in truth? 

Offline future socawarrior

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Re: Where is the defense coming from ?
« Reply #21 on: September 01, 2010, 04:06:50 PM »
Problem is the in Trinidad and Tobago we dont have quality defenders: because when you are young and sweating you only play defence when you play sh!t upfront :rotfl:



Offline weary1969

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Re: Where is the defense coming from ?
« Reply #22 on: September 01, 2010, 04:17:04 PM »
Problem is the in Trinidad and Tobago we dont have quality defenders: because when you are young and sweating you only play defence when you play sh!t upfront :rotfl:




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Offline just cool

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Re: Where is the defense coming from ?
« Reply #23 on: September 01, 2010, 04:21:43 PM »

Excellent post KND2

Just Cool, i think you completely missing his point, and I will prove it using that very US game as an example.

First of all, Keon Daniel DID NOT start that game, Carlos Edwards started on the left and regularly switched flanks with Tinto.

With Carlos and or Tinto being a presence on left offensively and in the case of Carlos defensively as well, the US right back did not venture forward.

Why because it was a double gamble, he would have worry about Carlos' speed on the counter and would also have to elude him while trying to create a play going forward, making Jlloyd's job easier.

Secondly, that was probably the best defensive game we played under Latapy. We frustrated the United states because every time we lost the ball, the team worked to regain possession. Our two defensive midfielders (Leon and Noel) combined well to close down passing lanes and forced numerous errors and turnovers. Donavan was hardly allowed any time on the ball. Dempsey was a non-entity in the game.

That had nothing to do with the awesomeness of our back four, because as you say: two throwaways started that game. Abu Bakr started at CB for that game with an over the hill Dennis Lawrence. American sports media outlets almost unanimously stated Bakr was the most competent cog of our back who had to clean up errors made by Lawrence and Silvio Spann.

As for Akile and the continued ignorance of what players actually do well and when a system fails, how many goals have we actually conceded due to an error by Akile Edwards on the left?

Fact: most of the goals we concede are due to errors made by our RIGHT BACK then a lapse by the central defensive pairing.
The "spirit" goal we conceded against the US was after our right back Silvio Spann was outfoxed by Donavan and the ball played out to Clark to shoot.

And even when Akile is beaten, where is the rest of the defensive line or his cover?

Just my two cents

Man I thought was just me that notice this phenominon in our defensive failures.  Aklie regularly gets singled out despite the fact that he has been left time and time again without no defensive help.  The fella has the tools and it must be the reason why he has earned a lion share of picks.  JC wasting Aklie who doing well in DF lineup but toutin fellas locally who playing fuh teams that eh beatin dem.  Even the game in Nashville when Mats was still coach everybody was on Aklie even though we get slaughter on the right.  In the second half Aklie stop 3 out of 4 attempts to use his Flank and launch crosses but it seems no one noticed that because it isn't ammo to use against him.  The reality is TnT has very little defensive shape and discipline and that is a coaching failure not personnel. 

JC you ha to be ah mad man to want to dash wey Clyde Leon.  Wha variety ah f**kry is dat yuh really on in truth? 
Well b redder, this is why we having this discussion, tuh talk about who right and who wrong for the team.

we will not all agree on this matter , and it's OK, bottom line is, we are sharing opinions, unfortunately there's absolutely nothing any of us can do but watch this play out and hope good sense prevail. after all, we're all in this together.
The pen is mightier than the sword, Africa for Africans home and abroad.Trinidad is not my home just a pit stop, Africa is my destination,final destination the MOST HIGH.

Offline jai john

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Re: Where is the defense coming from ?
« Reply #24 on: September 01, 2010, 06:43:11 PM »
Problem is the in Trinidad and Tobago we dont have quality defenders: because when you are young and sweating you only play defence when you play sh!t upfront :rotfl:



or when you kick ah shot overbars !! who kick dat shot ? defense for you sah !

 

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