Immigrant vets face deportation despite service

[Dutty]

Like veterans deserve some kinda pass compared to everybody else.  What so blasted special about veterans? 

Boy de people take yuh in dey country gih yuh ah lil piece ah education and dais how yuh talkin
Nex ting ah go see yuh marchin wit Fred Phelps and dem.

[truetrini]

Well Bakes if you dont know what makes veterans special in their respectuve countries, I am sorry....especially comabt veterans...sad indeed.

They do deserve a special pass and that is widely accepted everywhere.  Excpet by you obviously.

If you have ever served you would know what sacrifices veterans make.

Why not lead a ,movement to get rid of Memorial day and veterans Day too.

http://www.ejfi.org/DV/dv-40.htm

[Themanfriday]

How bout he betrayed the US by doing what he did. Made a bad picture of us who served and served proudly.

Words cyah express how pissed this one have me.

'
He did his time.  He just does not want to get deportd.

I find yuh talking level shit about feeling shamed etc.  You talk about audacity.....when he was serving where was the audacity?  He deserves to be allowed to stay.

When I was serving there was no short cut like after 3 months it was 3 years!

This is new and he has a damn right to be allowed to stay.

You need to read that again. He did not serve his whole time. He got in trouble even while in the military. He was trouble to begin with.

[Themanfriday]

BULLSHIT!

He was good enough to enlist, good enough to get trained, good enough to serve, good enough to deploy, the he is good enough to be allowed to stay in this country!

How the f**k he shaming any West Indian?

People use drugs all the time, he f**ked up he was thrown out he did his time, now yuh go punish him again by deporting him?

And why is it they changing the l;aws all the time as it pertains to legal immigrants serving as vets>?

This happened in 1992..how de hell anyone knows that he was denied citizenship based on his felony conviction?

he may have tried and was turned down.

is level fuc keries to deport him.

I posted the article because I felt it was bullshit, it has nutten to do with him being West Indian as far as I am concerned.  He is a veteran and put his life, limb on the line, that should have some value, it have some who eh serve in de Salvation Army and they getting a bligh.

He came as a child, what does he have in Jamaica?  Did he choose to fight for Jamaica?

BULLSHIT!

Yuh post de article... but did you read it?

In 2008, he was busted for selling marijuana to an undercover officer while working as a bouncer in an Orange County bar. He spent eight months in state prison.

In 2008, he was convicted of six weapons-related offenses, including two involving firearms dealing, and served time in federal prison. Now, like Coombs, he is facing deportation and is feeling betrayed.

He eh read de ting.

He had nuff chances to get citezenship but for what ever reason does not. How in heavens name yuh go go out and do dem tings and think yuh have de right tuh stay. What about de ppl he infected with his wrong doings. I guess dey eh have no rights either.

Doh get fooled here. I served and got my citizenship while serving. Every thing was done in less than 3 months from day of submission. He was a trouble maker while in and a trouble make when he got out. No discipline.

The best he could have gotten was an "Other than Honarable Discharge" and that just as bad as "Dishonorable"

Let him ride out

[Themanfriday]

It is comparable, you fight for an ideal, you serve a cause and then they discard you.


He served, and I understand his position very well...he does NOT deserve to be deported.  He went to jail, he was punished for all his crimes now he is to be deported when all he really knows is life here?

Suppose he was damaged during the war, maybe he needs mental health care...certainly noe deportation!

Besides look at YOUR president's promise!

"When your tour ends," President Barack Obama vowed to those serving in the military, "when you touch our soil, you will be home in America that is forever here for you, just as you've been there for us. That is my promise." Military recruiters regularly promise citizenship to patriotic immigrants who volunteer to offer up their lives for America.

[/b]

That has always been the promise to veterans..once the uniform goes on you are an american, you feel if the enemy captures you he letting you go becasue you not a citizen?

steups

What part of "criminal" do you not understand?  He has not served his full sentence because whether you agree with the law or not he knew the penalty he faced.  It have other poor non-vet immigrants getting deported fuh all kinda f**kery, who is dis jackass dat they can't send him back whey he come from.  If was ah Grenadian in Trinidad he woulda be telling he story from de boat.

Bakes I find yuh talking level shit..once you put on the uniform and take the oath you all but ah citizen already.

They SHOULD NOT DEPORT men and women who fought for this country..if you were to take a poll of most Americans they will agree too!

He came here a s a child, where he come from is of little significance when he made an oath to serve this nation and this constitution over any other.

I, (NAME), do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God.

He served for six years and he got thrown out, that cannot negate his prior service.And it is not just him, there are others who are being deported for stupid shit too.

I maintain that Veterans should not be deporteds!

What you talking bout here, he eh get thrown out he put himself out by his actions. He was to protect the constitution not abuse it. Read dat thing again. wait let me give you it just incase yuh miss it again " I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same" tell me how his actions were inline with these words.

You may never understand since you never served. I am trying but it may be of no service to you.

[Themanfriday]

These people that live almost their entire lives in the US almost from birth, they develop into thugs, drug pushers, murderers etc, so they are home grown in the States criminals and jus so USA shipping them out to the small islands for us to deal with sometimes without any warning.
America create the criminals whether is because they fight in their wars or otherwise and then the great USA solution is to foist these people on countries that could least handle them THAT IS THE CRIME.

This too is ah pack ah ass... if was a small-islander committing crime in TnT allyuh done ship him back to whey ever he from long time.  Bottom line is that if yuh not a citizen you are NOT the responsibility of your host country.  It doh matter how long yuh where, or where yuh learn yuh criminal craft.

Horse, ah cyar agree with yuh there.  What Fishs say is correct.  While I understand the law is clear in the US, it is an unjust or unfair law to the countries that being asked to accept the deportees.  If someone comes to the US as a child, is reared in the US, educated in the US and developed there sense of morals and criminal behavior in the US, it is tough to just ship them back to their country of birth.  Again, I understand the law but I'll never agree with it.
[/quote]

Airman,

while I agree with the morallity of this sentance and as you are a service man your self I must say this. A law is a law if you disobey, then you pay the penalty. You can not say there are any WI who does not know that if they break the law in the US that they take the chance of being deported. Thank you for your Service

As a Service Vet it is even more important that you be a role model. You are thought that somethings even though they may be acceptable by the community is not acceptable for you to do or partake. I work with wounded warriors daily and see the issues that they have and we try to help them. Some have been incarcerated and when they are out (even while in) if they seek help we will be there for them. So dont miss understand my stance as uncaring. There are resources for Vets and current members if they ask. The problem is that some others think they are above the law.

TC,

The statement used here by the current president has bared fruits and is acted upon. The Soldier in question here had his time prior to the inception of this declaration. there are though agencies that work with these vets to ensure they receive the same benefits as the current Soldiers. Ask and you shall find.

[Themanfriday]

Like veterans deserve some kinda pass compared to everybody else.  What so blasted special about veterans? 

Boy de people take yuh in dey country gih yuh ah lil piece ah education and dais how yuh talkin
Nex ting ah go see yuh marchin wit Fred Phelps and dem.

Bake

This is de only part of yuh whole arguement dat ah cyah agree with yuh. I believe I deserve more that another. I served, did my job to the best of my ability, Placed my life on the line. Got retired medically due to circumstances beyond my control while trying to defend all that so many folks take for granted. I have a family and they don't have the full benefits of a father/husband because there are many things I cannot do due to my service time. I walk with a cane, cant stand or run cant lift my baby or girls if they hurt, cant breathe properly and take numerous mforms of medications and use different apparatuses every day to try and have some form of a normal life. I try to live as a model citizen and fight daily for the right of other Vets and Soldiers. Because we do deserve more than what we do get.

[truetrini]

How bout he betrayed the US by doing what he did. Made a bad picture of us who served and served proudly.

Words cyah express how pissed this one have me.

'
He did his time.  He just does not want to get deportd.

I find yuh talking level shit about feeling shamed etc.  You talk about audacity.....when he was serving where was the audacity?  He deserves to be allowed to stay.

When I was serving there was no short cut like after 3 months it was 3 years!

This is new and he has a damn right to be allowed to stay.

You need to read that again. He did not serve his whole time. He got in trouble even while in the military. He was trouble to begin with.

He was in a combat zone...have you ever seen combat?  He served, he did his timew in jail for his crimes is what I meant.

[Themanfriday]

How bout he betrayed the US by doing what he did. Made a bad picture of us who served and served proudly.

Words cyah express how pissed this one have me.

'
He did his time.  He just does not want to get deportd.

I find yuh talking level shit about feeling shamed etc.  You talk about audacity.....when he was serving where was the audacity?  He deserves to be allowed to stay.

When I was serving there was no short cut like after 3 months it was 3 years!

This is new and he has a damn right to be allowed to stay.

You need to read that again. He did not serve his whole time. He got in trouble even while in the military. He was trouble to begin with.

He was in a combat zone...have you ever seen combat?  He served, he did his timew in jail for his crimes is what I meant.

YES. note: Not because you were in a combat zone means you saw combat you are pointless. Watch the play of words

[truetrini]

I know the difference very well. matters not, the point is he served, I cannot beleive your position.  He got into trouble so what?  He did 6 years before he got into trouble.  If he was born here and got into trouble he would have faced the consequences and not have to face deportation, what distinguishes his service from a person born here and got into similar trouble?

bullshit talk from a vet too.

[truetrini]

How did it take less than 3 months for you to get citizenship?  That is impossible unless you applied a few years ago.  becasue when I served it was 5 years for agreen card holder and THREE if you were serving honorably or did 3 years in the military and got ah honorable discharge!

The 3 months wait is a very recent development too.

[truetrini]

These people that live almost their entire lives in the US almost from birth, they develop into thugs, drug pushers, murderers etc, so they are home grown in the States criminals and jus so USA shipping them out to the small islands for us to deal with sometimes without any warning.
America create the criminals whether is because they fight in their wars or otherwise and then the great USA solution is to foist these people on countries that could least handle them THAT IS THE CRIME.

This too is ah pack ah ass... if was a small-islander committing crime in TnT allyuh done ship him back to whey ever he from long time.  Bottom line is that if yuh not a citizen you are NOT the responsibility of your host country.  It doh matter how long yuh where, or where yuh learn yuh criminal craft.

Horse, ah cyar agree with yuh there.  What Fishs say is correct.  While I understand the law is clear in the US, it is an unjust or unfair law to the countries that being asked to accept the deportees.  If someone comes to the US as a child, is reared in the US, educated in the US and developed there sense of morals and criminal behavior in the US, it is tough to just ship them back to their country of birth.  Again, I understand the law but I'll never agree with it.

Airman,

while I agree with the morallity of this sentance and as you are a service man your self I must say this. A law is a law if you disobey, then you pay the penalty. You can not say there are any WI who does not know that if they break the law in the US that they take the chance of being deported. Thank you for your Service

As a Service Vet it is even more important that you be a role model. You are thought that somethings even though they may be acceptable by the community is not acceptable for you to do or partake. I work with wounded warriors daily and see the issues that they have and we try to help them. Some have been incarcerated and when they are out (even while in) if they seek help we will be there for them. So dont miss understand my stance as uncaring. There are resources for Vets and current members if they ask. The problem is that some others think they are above the law.

TC,

The statement used here by the current president has bared fruits and is acted upon. The Soldier in question here had his time prior to the inception of this declaration. there are though agencies that work with these vets to ensure they receive the same benefits as the current Soldiers. Ask and you shall find.
[/quote]

I bet you I have more service time that you!

Doh tell me I eh serve I served and did so very well.

You talk about taking 3 months to get citizenship that is a jes come package young sweat!

[Themanfriday]

How did it take less than 3 months for you to get citizenship?  That is impossible unless you applied a few years ago.  becasue when I served it was 5 years for agreen card holder and THREE if you were serving honorably or did 3 years in the military and got ah honorable discharge!

The 3 months wait is a very recent development too.

Mine was done in 3 months. I did it in 2001 or 2002 cant remember right now. I was already in the military a few years so perhaps that counted but from the date my application was in to when I was called to swear in was less and not more than 3 months. I never wanted to get it because I did not want to swaer against holding my Trini. you know the deal.

On this case he messed up. In Trinbago they also deport trouble makers so why is it that the US should not.

[Bakes]

the man moved to the US when he was a boy.  This is where he developed his values and criminal behaviours.

I think Fishes said it - he is US grown.  Deporting him is a convenient way to get rid of a problem that had its Genesis in the good ole USA.  Is the US problem and they should deal with it.  Similar deportations happen in Canada too.

Ah have to agree with TC.  Bakes let me respond to your comment/questions: "Like veterans deserve some kinda pass compared to everybody else.  What so blasted special about veterans?"

Well, they put dey life on the line for the nation. In mines (and many others, books), that is what make them special and deserving of special treatment.

There are so many Vets who would roll over in their grave while you enjoying the rewards of their works.

Give me a break with this jingoistic bullshit.  The people who had no choice but to put their lives on hold and go fight in WWI, WWII, Korea and Vietnam is a different situation from today where Veterans make a conscious choice to go put their lives at risk, in exchange for a stable job, an opportunity for a career and benefits.  Nobody, but NOBODY join the military to go play hero and "protect America" and "fight for liberty" and other such red state slogans.  And if any of them do then they damn naive and foolish to let the military take advantage of the exuberance and pimp them like that.

By no means do I intend to diminish the hazards they face, nor diminish the personal sacrifices they are taking... but again, it's a conscious choice.  Why stop at veterans?  Peace Corps volunteers also serve their country.  What about missionaries?  In some cases their service might be considered a higher calling, and under even more hazardous conditions when you consider the hostility they encounter while proselytizing.  What about cops and Firemen?  They deserve a pass too?

Again I ask, what SO special about veterans that we must create a second tier of laws just for them.  I won't even touch on the unconstitutionality of that proposal.

[Themanfriday]

These people that live almost their entire lives in the US almost from birth, they develop into thugs, drug pushers, murderers etc, so they are home grown in the States criminals and jus so USA shipping them out to the small islands for us to deal with sometimes without any warning.
America create the criminals whether is because they fight in their wars or otherwise and then the great USA solution is to foist these people on countries that could least handle them THAT IS THE CRIME.

This too is ah pack ah ass... if was a small-islander committing crime in TnT allyuh done ship him back to whey ever he from long time.  Bottom line is that if yuh not a citizen you are NOT the responsibility of your host country.  It doh matter how long yuh where, or where yuh learn yuh criminal craft.

Horse, ah cyar agree with yuh there.  What Fishs say is correct.  While I understand the law is clear in the US, it is an unjust or unfair law to the countries that being asked to accept the deportees.  If someone comes to the US as a child, is reared in the US, educated in the US and developed there sense of morals and criminal behavior in the US, it is tough to just ship them back to their country of birth.  Again, I understand the law but I'll never agree with it.

Airman,

while I agree with the morallity of this sentance and as you are a service man your self I must say this. A law is a law if you disobey, then you pay the penalty. You can not say there are any WI who does not know that if they break the law in the US that they take the chance of being deported. Thank you for your Service

As a Service Vet it is even more important that you be a role model. You are thought that somethings even though they may be acceptable by the community is not acceptable for you to do or partake. I work with wounded warriors daily and see the issues that they have and we try to help them. Some have been incarcerated and when they are out (even while in) if they seek help we will be there for them. So dont miss understand my stance as uncaring. There are resources for Vets and current members if they ask. The problem is that some others think they are above the law.

TC,

The statement used here by the current president has bared fruits and is acted upon. The Soldier in question here had his time prior to the inception of this declaration. there are though agencies that work with these vets to ensure they receive the same benefits as the current Soldiers. Ask and you shall find.

I bet you I have more service time that you!

Doh tell me I eh serve I served and did so very well.

You talk about taking 3 months to get citizenship that is a jes come package young sweat!
[/quote]

Jess so yuh start defending your service.

Jess like that yuh go bet? Doh lose yuh money or pride now. I am not in competition with you bout time served and that has nothing to do with this.

wrong is wrong.

youing sweat? Thanks

[Themanfriday]

the man moved to the US when he was a boy.  This is where he developed his values and criminal behaviours.

I think Fishes said it - he is US grown.  Deporting him is a convenient way to get rid of a problem that had its Genesis in the good ole USA.  Is the US problem and they should deal with it.  Similar deportations happen in Canada too.

Ah have to agree with TC.  Bakes let me respond to your comment/questions: "Like veterans deserve some kinda pass compared to everybody else.  What so blasted special about veterans?"

Well, they put dey life on the line for the nation. In mines (and many others, books), that is what make them special and deserving of special treatment.

There are so many Vets who would roll over in their grave while you enjoying the rewards of their works.

Give me a break with this jingoistic bullshit.  The people who had no choice but to put their lives on hold and go fight in WWI, WWII, Korea and Vietnam is a different situation from today where Veterans make a conscious choice to go put their lives at risk, in exchange for a stable job, an opportunity for a career and benefits.  Nobody, but NOBODY join the military to go play hero and "protect America" and "fight for liberty" and other such red state slogans.  And if any of them do then they damn naive and foolish to let the military take advantage of the exuberance and pimp them like that.

By no means do I intend to diminish the hazards they face, nor diminish the personal sacrifices they are taking... but again, it's a conscious choice.  Why stop at veterans?  Peace Corps volunteers also serve their country.  What about missionaries?  In some cases their service might be considered a higher calling, and under even more hazardous conditions when you consider the hostility they encounter while proselytizing.  What about cops and Firemen?  They deserve a pass too?

Again I ask, what SO special about veterans that we must create a second tier of laws just for them.  I won't even touch on the unconstitutionality of that proposal.

They are also considered service members and have most, MOST of the benefits we do. Not a Pass but understanding.

Yes there are many who join just to protect and defend the country. I have served and now assist many who even after losing a limb, sight or even both have decided to stay in and fight for what they believe. You call them Naive I call them brave Soldiers, comrades.
I joined willingly but, was always willing to do my job under what ever the circumstance. I volunteered for what has not caused my ailment. I would do it again. Even knowing the person that took my spot died doing it. Cut from a different cloth.

[Bakes]

Bakes you defending the indefensible, exporting people back to small states cannot be right and you know it.
A man reach in the states when he was a baby of six months and live all his life there then commit a crime getting post back to where he born because he never get naturalised is the height of nonsense and irresponsibilty for the most powerfull and richest country on the planet.
This man doh know a soul in Grenada , Jamaica , St Vincent or where ever and get post back there to survive  how?
It is bordering on a human rights crime to the man and the small state.
So you take my pack ah ass and ride out on it obviously your great USA can do no wrong

If I knew it "cannot be right" then I'd say so.  I agree with it one hundred percent.  If you have a child you responsible for that child until that child reaches the age of adulthood.  Even if that child grow up in yuh cousin house across town, unless you forfeiting your parental rights or the child emancipates itself, then you remain responsible.  It is no different in the case of the legal resident.  That person (in many cases) opts to NOT become a US citizen, and until they do so then they properly belong to the nation of their birth, because such is their nationality.  If I go England, Canada... or God forbid, somewhere in the middle-east and never change my nationality from where I born... no matter how long I live abroad when that host country fed up with me is only one place they could send me.

I am not at all unsympathetic to the strains that the "deportee" situation putting on the native countries, but people in/from the native countries aren't looking at the situation rationally or objectively.  That person is a ward of your state whether you like it or not.  Not because some nation allow him/her to live in their country does it mean that they are forever tethered to an individual who has sworn no allegiance to the host country, and who has no moral or civic ties to it.  His/her ties are all social and can be severed by the individual whenever he/she wishes.  Everyone want to bawl about how it is a "US grown problem", but that problem child was never the US'. Why should US taxpayers have to put up with the negative presence of an individual who rightfully belongs elsewhere?

Again, all dem criminal Vincentian and Grenadians running around Laventille... first opportunity allyuh get allyuh deporting them... AND YOU KNOW THAT.

[truetrini]

I wonder if those deportees were ever taxpayers in the Us and when they were not in trouble were their tax dollars ever used to pay for the shit US born criminals did?

[Bakes]

Why not lead a ,movement to get rid of Memorial day and veterans Day too.

http://www.ejfi.org/DV/dv-40.htm

A) Because some did serve under heroic circumstances.
B) Some had no choice and HAD to fight, and actually fought to preserve liberty against real threats to "liberty, democracy and freedom"... like the Axis during WWII, not the trumped up enemies of Bush I and II.

C) It not that important to me for them to be recognized, same way I could go Miami and wine fuh Columbus Day instead of marching in opposition to the holiday.

Any more questions?

[truetrini]

Why not lead a ,movement to get rid of Memorial day and veterans Day too.

http://www.ejfi.org/DV/dv-40.htm

A) Because some did serve under heroic circumstances.
B) Some had no choice and HAD to fight, and actually fought to preserve liberty against real threats to "liberty, democracy and freedom"... like the Axis during WWII, not the trumped up enemies of Bush I and II.

C) It not that important to me for them to be recognized, same way I could go Miami and wine fuh Columbus Day instead of marching in opposition to the holiday.

Any more questions?

No more questuions, just a statement..yuh wrong on this point about deporting vets.  and the powers that be agree with my position and they will change the law to support the veterans.  that is why they making dem citizens when they enlist soon.

That is to protect them from the shit like deportation.

AGreen card holders who never served getting welfare...why the taxpayers putting up with that me he know.

[Bakes]

Bake

This is de only part of yuh whole arguement dat ah cyah agree with yuh. I believe I deserve more that another. I served, did my job to the best of my ability, Placed my life on the line. Got retired medically due to circumstances beyond my control while trying to defend all that so many folks take for granted. I have a family and they don't have the full benefits of a father/husband because there are many things I cannot do due to my service time. I walk with a cane, cant stand or run cant lift my baby or girls if they hurt, cant breathe properly and take numerous mforms of medications and use different apparatuses every day to try and have some form of a normal life. I try to live as a model citizen and fight daily for the right of other Vets and Soldiers. Because we do deserve more than what we do get.

See this is the part I always disagree with.  What were you defending?  A political ideal?  I mean come on man, again... I not trying to minimize what members of the armed forces go thru, but you were fighting because you were told to fight.  You might have even agreed to fight, but is not like you were fighting here on home soil against an invading army.  And I not saying you have to wait to be invaded to earn the right to "defend", but a lot of the battles that many after WWII serve in were ideological wars.  US Government took issue with some political position of another government, both government tried to exert their ideological influence in some far off land and sent people children to fight over these ideological differences.  They cloak all that b.s. under the mantle of "defending liberty".

I mean, Al Qaeda I understand... the military response was justified against attacks which first began abroad but which eventually found their way here in the US.  We responded (insufficiently) by sending troops to Afghanistan to root them out.

What were the Iraqi vets defending?  Iraqis never asked for Democracy.

And again... pay particular attention to what I actually stated "what is SO specia about vets".  I never said that vets aren't special... but what is so special that they deserve to be treated differently under the law.  THIS is my position, don't confuse it to think that I don't think vets deserve some degree of special treatment.

[Themanfriday]

Bakes you defending the indefensible, exporting people back to small states cannot be right and you know it.
A man reach in the states when he was a baby of six months and live all his life there then commit a crime getting post back to where he born because he never get naturalised is the height of nonsense and irresponsibilty for the most powerfull and richest country on the planet.
This man doh know a soul in Grenada , Jamaica , St Vincent or where ever and get post back there to survive  how?
It is bordering on a human rights crime to the man and the small state.
So you take my pack ah ass and ride out on it obviously your great USA can do no wrong

If I knew it "cannot be right" then I'd say so.  I agree with it one hundred percent.  If you have a child you responsible for that child until that child reaches the age of adulthood.  Even if that child grow up in yuh cousin house across town, unless you forfeiting your parental rights or the child emancipates itself, then you remain responsible.  It is no different in the case of the legal resident.  That person (in many cases) opts to NOT become a US citizen, and until they do so then they properly belong to the nation of their birth, because such is their nationality.  If I go England, Canada... or God forbid, somewhere in the middle-east and never change my nationality from where I born... no matter how long I live abroad when that host country fed up with me is only one place they could send me.

I am not at all unsympathetic to the strains that the "deportee" situation putting on the native countries, but people in/from the native countries aren't looking at the situation rationally or objectively.  That person is a ward of your state whether you like it or not.  Not because some nation allow him/her to live in their country does it mean that they are forever tethered to an individual who has sworn no allegiance to the host country, and who has no moral or civic ties to it.  His/her ties are all social and can be severed by the individual whenever he/she wishes.  Everyone want to bawl about how it is a "US grown problem", but that problem child was never the US'. Why should US taxpayers have to put up with the negative presence of an individual who rightfully belongs elsewhere?

Again, all dem criminal Vincentian and Grenadians running around Laventille... first opportunity allyuh get allyuh deporting them... AND YOU KNOW THAT.

Agree with 98%

[Bakes]

No more questuions, just a statement..yuh wrong on this point about deporting vets.  and the powers that be agree with my position and they will change the law to support the veterans.  that is why they making dem citizens when they enlist soon.

That is to protect them from the shit like deportation.

AGreen card holders who never served getting welfare...why the taxpayers putting up with that me he know.

You calling me "wrong" without making yuh case (as you have all thread) is the same as you farting in the wind... means less than nothing to me.  The "powers that be" CANNOT change this particular deportation law, unless they changing it for everybody.  That much I guarantee you.  They CANNOT say that non-citizen vets who break the law deserve to be treated differently than non-citizen civilians who break the law.  The only way they can do that is to repeal the 5th and 14th Amendments.

Green card holders on welfare have more often than not paid into that welfare system, or are contributing in a positive manner to offset the strain that they are putting on social services.  What are the criminals contributing?

[Themanfriday]

No more questuions, just a statement..yuh wrong on this point about deporting vets.  and the powers that be agree with my position and they will change the law to support the veterans.  that is why they making dem citizens when they enlist soon.

That is to protect them from the shit like deportation.

AGreen card holders who never served getting welfare...why the taxpayers putting up with that me he know.

You calling me "wrong" without making yuh case (as you have all thread) is the same as you farting in the wind... means less than nothing to me.  The "powers that be" CANNOT change this particular deportation law, unless they changing it for everybody.  That much I guarantee you.  They CANNOT say that non-citizen vets who break the law deserve to be treated differently than non-citizen civilians who break the law.  The only way they can do that is to repeal the 5th and 14th Amendments.

Green card holders on welfare have more often than not paid into that welfare system, or are contributing in a positive manner to offset the strain that they are putting on social services.  What are the criminals contributing?

Agree 95%

[Themanfriday]

Bake

This is de only part of yuh whole arguement dat ah cyah agree with yuh. I believe I deserve more that another. I served, did my job to the best of my ability, Placed my life on the line. Got retired medically due to circumstances beyond my control while trying to defend all that so many folks take for granted. I have a family and they don't have the full benefits of a father/husband because there are many things I cannot do due to my service time. I walk with a cane, cant stand or run cant lift my baby or girls if they hurt, cant breathe properly and take numerous mforms of medications and use different apparatuses every day to try and have some form of a normal life. I try to live as a model citizen and fight daily for the right of other Vets and Soldiers. Because we do deserve more than what we do get.

See this is the part I always disagree with.  What were you defending?  A political ideal?  I mean come on man, again... I not trying to minimize what members of the armed forces go thru, but you were fighting because you were told to fight.  You might have even agreed to fight, but is not like you were fighting here on home soil against an invading army.  And I not saying you have to wait to be invaded to earn the right to "defend", but a lot of the battles that many after WWII serve in were ideological wars.  US Government took issue with some political position of another government, both government tried to exert their ideological influence in some far off land and sent people children to fight over these ideological differences.  They cloak all that b.s. under the mantle of "defending liberty".

I mean, Al Qaeda I understand... the military response was justified against attacks which first began abroad but which eventually found their way here in the US.  We responded (insufficiently) by sending troops to Afghanistan to root them out.

What were the Iraqi vets defending?  Iraqis never asked for Democracy.

And again... pay particular attention to what I actually stated "what is SO specia about vets".  I never said that vets aren't special... but what is so special that they deserve to be treated differently under the law.  THIS is my position, don't confuse it to think that I don't think vets deserve some degree of special treatment.

You did not read all of my words. I said I volunteered. I was in Germany when the planes crashed. Before the second hit I was already on the phone with my commander.

We are saying the same but disagreeing on a few points. Perhaps it would serve you to read back into my posts. No where did I say I was in Iraq but you assumed this. What I did in the military I am proud of and never try to boast. My kids know very little but that their dad wore a uniform at a point in their early lives. My wife did not know the true extent of my retirement untill years after. So I will not try to defend it with you.

I never said a pass but understanding.

Please go back and read my posts.

[Themanfriday]

Why not lead a ,movement to get rid of Memorial day and veterans Day too.

http://www.ejfi.org/DV/dv-40.htm

A) Because some did serve under heroic circumstances.

Some do even now

B) Some had no choice and HAD to fight, and actually fought to preserve liberty against real threats to "liberty, democracy and freedom"... like the Axis during WWII, not the trumped up enemies of Bush I and II.

ONce you are in you have no choice unly you make it yours. Perhaps your hatred for the ideals of the prior regime has you clouded.

C) It not that important to me for them to be recognized, same way I could go Miami and wine fuh Columbus Day instead of marching in opposition to the holiday.

Should be thanking them that you are able to go Miami and fete with out the fear of being bombed into pieces.

Any more questions?

[Bakes]

Agree 95%

You did not read all of my words. I said I volunteered. I was in Germany when the plains crashed. Before the secound hit I was already on the phone with my commander.

We are saying the same but disagreeing on a few points. Perhaps it would serve you to read back into my posts. No where did I say I was in Iraq but you assumed this. What I did in the military I am proud of and never try to boast. My kids know very little but that their dad wore a uniform at a point in their early lives. My wife did not know the true extent of my retirement untill years after. So I will not try to defend it with you.

I never said a pass but understanding.

Please go back and read my posts.

I read your post from first word to last... I don't need to read it again.  I am not making any assumptions, nor did I ever state that YOU served in Iraq.  I mentioned Iraq because Desert Storm and Desert Shield are the only wars that most vets alive today know.  Some served in Afghanistan, some in Vietnam, a few in Korea and a handful in WWII.

There have been skirmishes here and there but no real war outside of those.  Those are the only operations where it could be said that the troops were "defending" something, and as argued above, it's hard to call all the activity a "defense" of the US.  You assume that I was speaking specifically about your situation when in fact I was reference the collective experiences of veterans as they exist today.

[truetrini]

No more questuions, just a statement..yuh wrong on this point about deporting vets.  and the powers that be agree with my position and they will change the law to support the veterans.  that is why they making dem citizens when they enlist soon.

That is to protect them from the shit like deportation.

AGreen card holders who never served getting welfare...why the taxpayers putting up with that me he know.

You calling me "wrong" without making yuh case (as you have all thread) is the same as you farting in the wind... means less than nothing to me.  The "powers that be" CANNOT change this particular deportation law, unless they changing it for everybody.  That much I guarantee you.  They CANNOT say that non-citizen vets who break the law deserve to be treated differently than non-citizen civilians who break the law.  The only way they can do that is to repeal the 5th and 14th Amendments.

Green card holders on welfare have more often than not paid into that welfare system, or are contributing in a positive manner to offset the strain that they are putting on social services.  What are the criminals contributing?

I said changign the law to grant or confer citizenship upopn enlistment..go back and re-read...doh hold yuh nose is not me farting.

[truetrini]

The smae people who volunteered to serve will be called upon to defend this nation in case of an invasion.

vets are not offorded the opportunity to discuss the merits of fighting based on political decisions..all wars are political creations, soldiers just acomplich the imperative.  or try to and then come back home alive.

[Bakes]

A) Some do even now

B) ONce you are in you have no choice unly you make it yours. Perhaps your hatred for the ideals of the prior regime has you clouded.

C) Should be thanking them that you are able to go Miami and fete with out the fear of being bombed into pieces.

Any more questions?

Doh make you and I fall out with this shit talk.

a) I have no doubt that some still serve under heroic circumstances... you just arguing for argument sake now.  TC's question was why don't I oppose the holidays.  I laid out why I don't oppose the holidays.  What are you arguing... reasons why I should??

b) "Once you are in..."  Exactly.  And you have a choice about going in or not.  Not every vet had a choice, and I for one think differently of the service of those who were forced to sacrifice, compared to those who volunteered for service.  Under threat of compulsion many showed up and went and fought, even if in their hearts they would have preferred to be home with their families or pursuing their careers.  They had to sacrifice those things against their will.  They didn't take the coward's way out by going to Canada, or having thier daddies smooth their paths.  

Service members today volunteer for the hazards.  There is a calculation made by many who look at the low risk of fighting relative to the reward of enlisting.  Today of course those risks are heightened, and some still like their odds so they gamble.  For others like yourself there is no gamble, you don't mind fighting.  Good for you.  You still made a conscious choice to put the other things you could have been doing on hold to serve.  Others didn't have that choice, they had their other opportunities foreclosed to them on account of the draft.

You are myopically looking at this within the paradigm of the Bush years... I am not.  I am comparing draft service to post-draft service and acknowledging a difference.  You don't have to like or agree with it.

c) Who was going to bomb me into pieces in Miami?  Even if they were, domestic security isn't even under the purview of the military.  Your best argument would be to try and extrapolate that "protection" all the way back to the troops serving in Afghanistan... who arguably fighting to 'keep us safe' from Al Qaeda.