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Re: Dwayne Gibbs one year evaluation
« Reply #150 on: August 29, 2011, 07:02:53 PM »
As much as I've never been Gibbs No1 supporter, this madness today about his "racist" comment is crazy. Talking about how the arrested people would be identified and imprisoned, Gibbs said "It will take time to tell who's who in the zoo"

Apparently Gibbs was making a reference to African slaves who were put in zoos.

Are they crazy? Gibbs statement, in my opinion, reflects his opinion that in this multi racial society, no sane person would equate a common phrase with racism. I often use the phrase "all over him like white on rice" Is that racist? Or "pot calling the kettle black"?   I remember the mad days in UK when they took away the word blackboard and replaced it with chalkboard so it didn't offend people of colour, while quite forgetting that white people are called "Chalky" across the world. 

You've never been likened to a monkey... so you wouldn't understand.  And I've never heard white people referred to as "chalky".

Actually, you're incorrect. Yesterday, Sunday evening, my girlfriend said to her daughter "look at the hairs on his arms, he's like a monkey" I actually laughingly accused her of being racist and pointed out that if I said that to a person of colour , I would be accused of being racist. (I am willing to supply a phone number if you want confirmation of this. Its a coincidence, but apt)

I presume, Bakes, you've never been referred to as a slave trader, or a nazi (as I was outside the Corner Bar on Ariapita in 2008 - the only time I've received overtly racist abuse in T&T)

Having a black wife in London resulted in me receiving racist comments from blacks and whites (but that kind of thing has pretty much died out now). And of course I get the classic accusations of slave owning ancestors (which I have no idea if that is true and my family was working class), to which I usually reply "That makes two of us then"

Just because I'm white, doesn't mean I am not touched by racism (albeit not as frequently as some black people). Everyday, I am treated different to Trinis, both because of colour and because of nationality. Sometimes its beneficial, most times not.

Chalky was originally a nickname for people with the surname White. It was picked up by locals in Commonwealth countries, mainly India, Pakistan etc out of no malice. Its a playful term, much like "Redman" as I'm sometimes called here.

Who's who in the zoo has, as far as I'm concerned, no racial connotations. I have heard the term in many scenarios in UK & USA including the stock exchange. You have to reach real far to believe that comment is racist in any way. I don't even think it is insensitive.

I am sorry you were referred to as a monkey. That said, I feel those instances do not give you the moral high ground to lecture me on racism. And your response to my previous comment was out of context and uncalled for. I thought you were bigger than that mate.

 

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Re: Dwayne Gibbs one year evaluation
« Reply #151 on: August 29, 2011, 08:34:10 PM »
Actually, you're incorrect. Yesterday, Sunday evening, my girlfriend said to her daughter "look at the hairs on his arms, he's like a monkey" I actually laughingly accused her of being racist and pointed out that if I said that to a person of colour , I would be accused of being racist. (I am willing to supply a phone number if you want confirmation of this. Its a coincidence, but apt)

I presume, Bakes, you've never been referred to as a slave trader, or a nazi (as I was outside the Corner Bar on Ariapita in 2008 - the only time I've received overtly racist abuse in T&T)

Having a black wife in London resulted in me receiving racist comments from blacks and whites (but that kind of thing has pretty much died out now). And of course I get the classic accusations of slave owning ancestors (which I have no idea if that is true and my family was working class), to which I usually reply "That makes two of us then"

Just because I'm white, doesn't mean I am not touched by racism (albeit not as frequently as some black people). Everyday, I am treated different to Trinis, both because of colour and because of nationality. Sometimes its beneficial, most times not.

Chalky was originally a nickname for people with the surname White. It was picked up by locals in Commonwealth countries, mainly India, Pakistan etc out of no malice. Its a playful term, much like "Redman" as I'm sometimes called here.

Who's who in the zoo has, as far as I'm concerned, no racial connotations. I have heard the term in many scenarios in UK & USA including the stock exchange. You have to reach real far to believe that comment is racist in any way. I don't even think it is insensitive.

I am sorry you were referred to as a monkey. That said, I feel those instances do not give you the moral high ground to lecture me on racism. And your response to my previous comment was out of context and uncalled for. I thought you were bigger than that mate.

 

Dude, at no point did I say to you "you've never been the victim of racism, therefore you don't understand."  You are entirely too thin-skinned... you seem to take everything as a personal attack against you, including disagreements with your comments.

I don't know enough about you to "lecture you on racism".  I'm trying to tell you that YOU are in no position to tell black people how to feel about references made to other black people implying that they're animals.  I have never been called a monkey or animal to my face, but I know enough about the history of such references to instinctively and inherently know the sting. 

The comment by your girlfriend hardly counts.  My family is mixed and I've had friends jokingly call me "c**lie boy", despite my obvious African features.  The comment is so off-base, and my familiarity with the sources of the comment is such that I know better than to interpret it as a slur.  I wouldn't dare attempt to tell an Indian person in the same situation how to feel.

Whatever slights and offenses you have been subject to you have my sympathies, but that has nothing to do with anything that I said.  I don't know that Gibbs was being racist... in fact I highly doubt it, but his comments reveal a lack of appreciation for his situation.  He's the first foreigner, and a white man at that, to be put in charge of the Police force.  In a country still suffering from colorism and still smarting from the sting of colonialism (everything white/foreign is better) it isn't surprising that some would interpret his comment as such.  Neither you nor he knows enough about this history to be rubbishing the concerns as you did.  This was my point to you... which you clearly missed.

As for the "chalky" comment... I'm not arguing whether it is or isn't a slur.  You said it's used all over the world... I'm telling you that in my limited experience this is the first I'm ever hearing the reference.
« Last Edit: August 29, 2011, 08:39:04 PM by Bakes »

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Re: Dwayne Gibbs one year evaluation
« Reply #152 on: August 29, 2011, 09:23:32 PM »
Actually, you're incorrect. Yesterday, Sunday evening, my girlfriend said to her daughter "look at the hairs on his arms, he's like a monkey" I actually laughingly accused her of being racist and pointed out that if I said that to a person of colour , I would be accused of being racist. (I am willing to supply a phone number if you want confirmation of this. Its a coincidence, but apt)

I presume, Bakes, you've never been referred to as a slave trader, or a nazi (as I was outside the Corner Bar on Ariapita in 2008 - the only time I've received overtly racist abuse in T&T)

Having a black wife in London resulted in me receiving racist comments from blacks and whites (but that kind of thing has pretty much died out now). And of course I get the classic accusations of slave owning ancestors (which I have no idea if that is true and my family was working class), to which I usually reply "That makes two of us then"

Just because I'm white, doesn't mean I am not touched by racism (albeit not as frequently as some black people). Everyday, I am treated different to Trinis, both because of colour and because of nationality. Sometimes its beneficial, most times not.

Chalky was originally a nickname for people with the surname White. It was picked up by locals in Commonwealth countries, mainly India, Pakistan etc out of no malice. Its a playful term, much like "Redman" as I'm sometimes called here.

Who's who in the zoo has, as far as I'm concerned, no racial connotations. I have heard the term in many scenarios in UK & USA including the stock exchange. You have to reach real far to believe that comment is racist in any way. I don't even think it is insensitive.

I am sorry you were referred to as a monkey. That said, I feel those instances do not give you the moral high ground to lecture me on racism. And your response to my previous comment was out of context and uncalled for. I thought you were bigger than that mate.

 

Dude, at no point did I say to you "you've never been the victim of racism, therefore you don't understand."  You are entirely too thin-skinned... you seem to take everything as a personal attack against you, including disagreements with your comments.

I don't know enough about you to "lecture you on racism".  I'm trying to tell you that YOU are in no position to tell black people how to feel about references made to other black people implying that they're animals.  I have never been called a monkey or animal to my face, but I know enough about the history of such references to instinctively and inherently know the sting. 

The comment by your girlfriend hardly counts.  My family is mixed and I've had friends jokingly call me "c**lie boy", despite my obvious African features.  The comment is so off-base, and my familiarity with the sources of the comment is such that I know better than to interpret it as a slur.  I wouldn't dare attempt to tell an Indian person in the same situation how to feel.

Whatever slights and offenses you have been subject to you have my sympathies, but that has nothing to do with anything that I said.  I don't know that Gibbs was being racist... in fact I highly doubt it, but his comments reveal a lack of appreciation for his situation.  He's the first foreigner, and a white man at that, to be put in charge of the Police force.  In a country still suffering from colorism and still smarting from the sting of colonialism (everything white/foreign is better) it isn't surprising that some would interpret his comment as such.  Neither you nor he knows enough about this history to be rubbishing the concerns as you did.  This was my point to you... which you clearly missed.

As for the "chalky" comment... I'm not arguing whether it is or isn't a slur.  You said it's used all over the world... I'm telling you that in my limited experience this is the first I'm ever hearing the reference.

The thing is mate that we view things from opposite sides of a spectrum, and I choose that word deliberately. This discussion is a perfect example. Neither of us are racist or wish to offend each other, but we managed to do just that.

"Neither you nor he knows enough about this history to be rubbishing the concerns as you did.  This was my point to you... which you clearly missed."

Whereas you may be perfectly justified to say the above, to my white eyes, that statement is very condescending. My interpretation of your statement is that, Gibbs and I, being white, have a far diminished knowledge of history than a black person. Again, you may not have meant it in that way but thats how it feels, and therefore I can't comment on race issues because I don't understand..

Much as you weren't aware that chalky is a term used racially against whites, http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=chalky  I'm sure Gibbs didn't use the phrase "Who's who in the zoo" in any racial context. If someone had called me chalky without realising the connotations, and I called them racist, you all would have said I'm being thin skinned about that too!
As you will be aware in the USA, this term is used and accepted without any racial connotations. At best, someone should have whispered in Gibbs ear not to say that again. In my view, these people who are demanding Gibbs resignation are at the least guilty of being racist towards Gibbs. They are doing far more damage than the silly girl on facebook.  If a Canadian Muslim had said this, I'm damn sure they wouldn't be shouting so loud. You say I'm thin skinned, what about these guys?

It just illustrates that we all have to be more tolerant at times and accept that not every comment is meant in the way it may be perceived.
« Last Edit: August 29, 2011, 09:25:04 PM by Football supporter »

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Re: Dwayne Gibbs one year evaluation
« Reply #153 on: August 29, 2011, 10:54:51 PM »
For those in the know and who actually have an informed opinion:

What were the goals/expectations after one year?  Which ones did he meet, and which ones did he not meet? 

U feel we does tink bout dem thing?

 :rotfl:  Yuh nearly put me in hospital with that one.  Classic!!!
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Re: Dwayne Gibbs one year evaluation
« Reply #154 on: August 29, 2011, 11:40:39 PM »
The thing is mate that we view things from opposite sides of a spectrum, and I choose that word deliberately. This discussion is a perfect example. Neither of us are racist or wish to offend each other, but we managed to do just that.

I think you read way more significance into these conversations than are meant... there is nothing that you said that personally offended me... I just find it funny whenever a non-black person presumes to speak on when black people are "overreacting" to perceived racial slights.... which I'll elaborate on in a second.

Quote
"Neither you nor he knows enough about this history to be rubbishing the concerns as you did.  This was my point to you... which you clearly missed."

Whereas you may be perfectly justified to say the above, to my white eyes, that statement is very condescending. My interpretation of your statement is that, Gibbs and I, being white, have a far diminished knowledge of history than a black person. Again, you may not have meant it in that way but thats how it feels, and therefore I can't comment on race issues because I don't understand..

Well I'm sorry that's how you interpreted my comments... but as I tried to illustrate with my "c-word" analogy... who are you to say when a black person is being unreasonable in reacting to perceived racism??  It's not that you can't comment on race issues, it's more of a "how can you even talk unless you've walked in their shoes?"  I don't know about you, but as a black man I would be reticent to tell an Indian person that they are overreacting to perceived anti-Indian sentiment, or to tell a Jewish person the same about perceived anti-Semitism.  I don't share, and cannot understand their perspective therefore it would be inappropriate for me to attempt to circumscribe their sense of offense.

"Who's who in the zoo" might be a "common statement" to you... but honestly this may be the first time I'm hearing it.  If it's not the first time, I can tell you that it really isn't that common as to suggest that it is unreasonable for a Trinidadian to find it uncommon... it certainly isn't something I heard a lot growing up, not in person, not on TV.  You haven't lived with a history of your people being associated with Simians... and a good guess is that you missed a lot of the coded racism that was in the early Planet of the Apes movies which made so many black people uncomfortable.  The only other people I know of who've widely been compared to apes are the Irish, and I'm certain even they weren't as unnerved by the movies as blacks were.  I can tell you, even as a young child (seeing it on reruns around age 5 or 6) who was largely sheltered from racism in TnT there were points in the movie when I felt keenly uncomfortable.  You don't share this inherent discomfort with the comparison therefore you won't get it.   Why you would choose to interpret that as me lecturing you on race or telling you that you can't comment on it... is quite simply, beyond me.

Quote
Much as you weren't aware that chalky is a term used racially against whites, http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=chalky  I'm sure Gibbs didn't use the phrase "Who's who in the zoo" in any racial context. If someone had called me chalky without realising the connotations, and I called them racist, you all would have said I'm being thin skinned about that too!
As you will be aware in the USA, this term is used and accepted without any racial connotations. At best, someone should have whispered in Gibbs ear not to say that again. In my view, these people who are demanding Gibbs resignation are at the least guilty of being racist towards Gibbs. They are doing far more damage than the silly girl on facebook.  If a Canadian Muslim had said this, I'm damn sure they wouldn't be shouting so loud. You say I'm thin skinned, what about these guys?

It just illustrates that we all have to be more tolerant at times and accept that not every comment is meant in the way it may be perceived.

Uhm... no.

First off, I've lived in the US for 22 1/2 yrs... and as I mentioned earlier... this is NOT a common saying.  If you had taken offense to being called "chalky" I might have said "I think you're reading too much into the comment, I don't think...".  I definitely would not have said anything to suggest that you were crazy or being unreasonable for interpreting the comment as an offense.

Secondly, Gibbs may not have been aware that some would have taken his comment the wrong way, but he SHOULD be familiar with the historical comparison of blacks to apes.  I don't know what he knows from what he doesn't know, but the trope is so common that one has to be living in a bubble to not understand how such a comparison (blacks to apes/animals) would be offensive.  Armed with this knowledge, the "zoo" language is a most unfortunate choice of words.

Thirdly, everything I said to you earlier regarding the particular sensitivity of Trinis/WI's to issues of 1) colorism and 2) colonialism seems to have sailed safely above your head.  You may not have understood it when I explained it, or maybe you did understand but don't agree with it... but agree or not, I'm telling you that things like this are still seen by through those lenses.  3) Same for the fact that he's a foreigner.  Just look at Bajan's reaction to the whole Machel/cropover issue... WI's don't like foreigners coming into their country and supplanting them. 

Gibbs by now should have had an appreciation of all three of these issues as to be wiser with his words... this is about the only thing I could say he's guilty of, not understanding these issues and thus being properly sensitized to them.  This, again, is the point that I was also making to you... maybe now you would understand.  If not... or if there's yet something else that I said that you take offense to, then I really can't help you.
« Last Edit: August 29, 2011, 11:44:52 PM by Bakes »

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Re: Dwayne Gibbs one year evaluation
« Reply #155 on: August 30, 2011, 12:27:07 AM »
"You haven't lived with a history of your people being associated with Simians... and a good guess is that you missed a lot of the coded racism that was in the early Planet of the Apes movies which made so many black people uncomfortable."

I actually watched the TV series before the movie. Think I was around 14. One time at school, we were tasked with writing an essay discussing the metaphor of Apes as Africans and the reversal of white/African slavery. Aside from one token black man and an Asian woman, who have minor parts, all human characters were white. I may be wrong, but I believe the colour of the apes reflected in seniority, with the darkest apes being the most brutal and the lighter apes the most civilised and educated.

Although there were many liberal outrages about this programme, condemning it as a warning to whites in America of what would happen if blacks were allowed to obtain power, I will admit, most British people couldn't see it. They were still naive in those days and if it wasn't writ large, they didn't see it.

To us kids, once we saw the underlying message, we were mostly shocked. I seem to recall that this was also around the time of "Roots", which also shocked us. Although we were taught about slavery, the Americans were made out to be the really bad guys.

I never heard of Irish being called apes though. In the UK, an Irishman was always the butt of the joke for being stupid, Scottish were always tight fisted and Welsh were sheep shaggers! Of course, we couldn't be racist against ourselves, so we went regional. Us Southern guys were wheeler dealer cockney thieves while our girls were cheap and tarty, people from the South West were slow witted, Northerners were tightfisted and brash. We even broke it down to cities, but I won't go there now!

And as stupid as this may sound,  I still find Gibbs comments are a long reach from racist. Now if he had said he wanted to "sort the Alpha males from the Troop" I can see the likening to apes. But the zoo reference simply means sorting like for like, in this instance, gang leaders from car thieves etc. It was a poor simile, but one he used without malice. Indeed, had he any realisation of offence, I'm certain he wouldn't have used it. It was a simple mistake, and as such, worth monitoring, but no more.  Sorry if I still seem insensitive.


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Re: Dwayne Gibbs one year evaluation
« Reply #156 on: August 30, 2011, 12:54:18 AM »
"You haven't lived with a history of your people being associated with Simians... and a good guess is that you missed a lot of the coded racism that was in the early Planet of the Apes movies which made so many black people uncomfortable."

I actually watched the TV series before the movie. Think I was around 14. One time at school, we were tasked with writing an essay discussing the metaphor of Apes as Africans and the reversal of white/African slavery. Aside from one token black man and an Asian woman, who have minor parts, all human characters were white. I may be wrong, but I believe the colour of the apes reflected in seniority, with the darkest apes being the most brutal and the lighter apes the most civilised and educated.

Although there were many liberal outrages about this programme, condemning it as a warning to whites in America of what would happen if blacks were allowed to obtain power, I will admit, most British people couldn't see it. They were still naive in those days and if it wasn't writ large, they didn't see it.

To us kids, once we saw the underlying message, we were mostly shocked. I seem to recall that this was also around the time of "Roots", which also shocked us. Although we were taught about slavery, the Americans were made out to be the really bad guys.

I never heard of Irish being called apes though. In the UK, an Irishman was always the butt of the joke for being stupid, Scottish were always tight fisted and Welsh were sheep shaggers! Of course, we couldn't be racist against ourselves, so we went regional. Us Southern guys were wheeler dealer cockney thieves while our girls were cheap and tarty, people from the South West were slow witted, Northerners were tightfisted and brash. We even broke it down to cities, but I won't go there now!

And as stupid as this may sound,  I still find Gibbs comments are a long reach from racist. Now if he had said he wanted to "sort the Alpha males from the Troop" I can see the likening to apes. But the zoo reference simply means sorting like for like, in this instance, gang leaders from car thieves etc. It was a poor simile, but one he used without malice. Indeed, had he any realisation of offence, I'm certain he wouldn't have used it. It was a simple mistake, and as such, worth monitoring, but no more.  Sorry if I still seem insensitive.



Not at all... I don't think you are, nor do you sound insensitive.  As I said to you much earlier... I also don't think he was being racist.  I was just trying to explain to you why the response wasn't as "crazy" or unreasonable as you think.

As for the Irish and apes... it's actually the British (and no one else) who made the comparison.  Just google "irish" and "simian" and see what you find  ;)

As for Planet of the Apes... yeah in ape society the extremely light Orangutans were the Politicians and Academics, the light Chimpanzees were the artists, bohemians and scientists... the extremely dark Apes were the unthinking, unsophisticated brutes... the police/military.

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Re: Dwayne Gibbs one year evaluation
« Reply #157 on: August 30, 2011, 01:39:58 AM »
 I don't know how much of you guys have been inside a prison or jail to see what its like.
They are deplorable conditions, really fit for animals only, some of it is the prisoners own making, also when you pass on the outside the kind of noises , inhuman sounds and smell that come from inside there makes you want to puke.
Caged like animals.
So "who's who in the ZOO" maybe more literal than you think.
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Re: Dwayne Gibbs one year evaluation
« Reply #158 on: August 30, 2011, 07:38:07 AM »
Damn- that must be frustrating...Did he board in T&T? Surprised they allowed him to board.  

For the U.S. at least I know the agent at the desk will check to see if you have a valid U.S. visa before even issuing you a boarding pass.

What you talking about, the man is Commmissioner of Police who checking he PP in T&T?

lol true
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Re: Dwayne Gibbs one year evaluation
« Reply #159 on: August 30, 2011, 07:49:20 AM »

Who's who in the zoo has, as far as I'm concerned, no racial connotations.

Right where I bolded is where you faltered. 

What's offensive to others may not be offensive to you.  Different cultures and individuals have different experiences and there will be times when yuh need to be sensitive to them.  I don't think his statement was racist at all, but if you're not familiar with the zoo reference that he made, it could be easily misconstrued.  As bakes was saying, if you've had a history of being likened to a monkey the perspective changes.  You're better off accepting that and adjusting your behavior to suit, than being dismissive. 

There's another thread where Qantas airlines had to apologize for perceived racism...I didn't think there was anything racist involved in the situation what so ever, but that's the world we live in....and in all fariness, black people eh make it so lol...

There's a reason why black people in general are more sensitive to (perceived) racism than most, if not all races ... right, wrong or indifferent it is how it is...and for a pretty understandable reason.  Who doh think it's understandable probably needs to read a book or two.   
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Re: Dwayne Gibbs one year evaluation
« Reply #160 on: August 30, 2011, 08:05:37 AM »

Who's who in the zoo has, as far as I'm concerned, no racial connotations.

Right where I bolded is where you faltered. 

What's offensive to others may not be offensive to you.  Different cultures and individuals have different experiences and there will be times when yuh need to be sensitive to them.  I don't think his statement was racist at all, but if you're not familiar with the zoo reference that he made, it could be easily misconstrued.  As bakes was saying, if you've had a history of being likened to a monkey the perspective changes.  You're better off accepting that and adjusting your behavior to suit, than being dismissive. 

There's another thread where Qantas airlines had to apologize for perceived racism...I didn't think there was anything racist involved in the situation what so ever, but that's the world we live in....and in all fariness, black people eh make it so lol...

There's a reason why black people in general are more sensitive to (perceived) racism than most, if not all races ... right, wrong or indifferent it is how it is...and for a pretty understandable reason.  Who doh think it's understandable probably needs to read a book or two.   

I hear you. And I agree, it may have been an insensitive comment, particularly in a Caribbean country. Trust me, its easy to say something that seems innocuous, but has racial connotations when you are in a different society. I am certain that Gibbs feels he is completely non racist and sensitive to race issues, yet a common day phrase in Canada is misconstrued in T&T. Its politically correct in UK to address Indians and people from the sub continent as Asians, whereas "Indians" could be perceived as rude, yet here, it appears the opposite. In UK, the term redskin always referred to American Indians.

A little leeway needs to be excercised by all people. While I have had the luxury of explanation, Gibbs did not. Calling him a racist and wanting his resignation is extreme. As I have said before, those actions should be publicly critiscised as inciting civil unrest and attacking the government. These were no teenage girls, these were people with their own agenda trying to persue their own agenda. A simple statement such as "Gibbs comment was unfortunate" would have sufficed.

But thank you to everyone here, as this type of debate is invaluable to me as a white guy. I could see myself having said the exact same phrase as a comment. For instance, if there was a reshuffle in TTFF, I could see myself saying "Lets wait until the dust settles to see who's who in the zoo." Until yesterday, I honestly felt that phrase had no racial connotations!   

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Re: Dwayne Gibbs one year evaluation
« Reply #161 on: August 30, 2011, 11:59:28 AM »
FS... I'm with you, I don't think the phrase itself carries any racial connotations... at all.  It just invokes some uncomfortable feelings for some, or gives others an excuse to cry racism, and really only because in our part of the world it's not as commonly heard.

As for those who are clamoring for Gibbs to resign... likely they're still toting feelings from the fact that he's white, a foreigner etc... and just plain don't like him for that reason.  As such, any reason to get him out of office is fair game for them.  Should they be charged with a crime??  Come on!  That is hardly "inciting civil unrest"... and there is nothing wrong or illegal with "attacking the government", even under the SoE.  They're just idiots and I'm pretty certain the rest of TnT will look at them as being just that, idiots.

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Re: Dwayne Gibbs one year evaluation
« Reply #162 on: August 30, 2011, 04:53:37 PM »
well I think his statement was racist. a Zoo houses animals. he is referring to those imprisoned (mainly black persons) as animals. i dont know how you all dont think its racist.

if u look at it literally or figuratively, he is comparing blacks to animals. plain and simple

but this is my opinion of course
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Re: Dwayne Gibbs one year evaluation
« Reply #163 on: August 30, 2011, 08:59:23 PM »
well I think his statement was racist. a Zoo houses animals. he is referring to those imprisoned (mainly black persons) as animals. i dont know how you all dont think its racist.

if u look at it literally or figuratively, he is comparing blacks to animals. plain and simple

but this is my opinion of course

That first line has no logic at all. So any talk about criminals is racist?! Nonsense!! Give yuh head a shake. Steups. 

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The Dwayne Gibbs Thread
« Reply #164 on: December 28, 2011, 09:51:27 PM »
And I "wishes" for Gibbs to be sent back to his home in Canada and for the PPing government to stop wasting T&T taxpayers money paying this man!!  :pissedoff:

http://www.trinidadexpress.com/news/GIBBS_WISHES_FOR_LESS_CRIME-136294228.html

GIBBS WISHES FOR LESS CRIME
Police Commissioner returns from vacation to find eight murdered
By Akile Simon
 
Story Created: Dec 27, 2011 at 11:51 PM ECT

WITH eight persons being murdered in separate incidents over the long Christmas weekend, Commissioner of Police Dwayne Gibbs yesterday expressed concern over the incidents but assured the police will continue to do all in their power to deal with such incidents.
 
The eight killings occurred between last Friday and yesterday in Valencia, Maracas/St Joseph, Claxton Bay, San Fernando, Laventille, Aranjuez and Caroni.
 
Two of the victims, one of them a woman, were stabbed, while the other six were shot during separate incidents.
 
The dead people have been identified as army Sgt George Sheldon Froix, Sheldon "Nippy" Gillman, Kern "Chucky" Mitchell, Anil Bhagwandass, Brent Dickson, Noel Marcano, Amanda Phillip and Krishandath "Trudy" Ramesar.
 
Gibbs spoke with the Express during a brief telephone interview shortly after returning to the country from an overseas trip.
 
Gibbs said he hadn't had a chance to catch up with what has transpired in the country during his absence but gave the undertaking the police will continue to work with the various stakeholders to provide effective and efficient policing.
 
He said at the end of 2011, the country would have recorded a lower crime rate and he intends to maintain this with the possibility of taking the rate to an even lower level compared to the past years.
 
Gibbs said: "At the moment I'm not in a position to say anything since I'm trying to get up to speed with all that has transpired during my absence so I'm not in a position to take any questions.
 
He added, "We are hoping to expand on all of our policing initiatives especially dealing with the 21st Century Policing Initiative. My wish for 2012 is to have crime way down in the sense that we see people trying to work together and not solving their differences by killing each other and for the country to flourish economically and politically."
 
Meanwhile, Deputy Commissioner in charge of Anti-Crime, Operations, Mervyn Richardson, said yesterday the police have recognised that within the past two weeks many of the homicides committed were a result of conflict between several parties.
 
He said the issue of people being unable to find effective ways in settling disputes is one of serious concern and must be addressed by individuals themselves.
 
He said, "We are concerned that within the last two weeks we have seen a marginal increase in homicides. We are investigating every incident and I could tell you that several of them are expected to be completed within the earliest possible time.
 
"Every life lost is a concern to us and one too many as we remain in this all-time-low in homicides and it's unfortunate what happened in East Port of Spain last week at the Trou Macaque, Laventille, Plannings.
 
"I want to assure the public that we are doing all in our power to ensure their safety and security. We also want to thank them for calling in and providing us with information in solving homicides and crimes and urge them to continue doing so.
 
"As we move into the pre-Carnival season, there would be an even greater police visibility throughout the country."
 
The latest killing occurred at Forres Park, Claxton Bay, where Ramesar was shot by unknown assailants while liming at the side of the roadway. Ramesar was shot twice about his body and once in his head a stone's throw away from where he lived at Allarack Road, Caratal Road.
 
His family believe persons who were jealous of Ramesar, who worked as a farmer and a watchman, chose to end his life.
 
Witnesses told police that around 9 p.m. that a gunman wearing a ski mask on his face and with a hat with a headlamp emerged from a track leading to Allarack Road where Ramesar was liming and shot him.
 
The gunman then walked away from the scene.

Ramesar was at the time liming and drinking on the road with his sister, Rekha Ragoonath, friend Anthony Rampersad and neighbour Indradeo Pulchan.
 
Ragoonath, who turned 17 yesterday, said when she saw the gunman she initially wanted to run because she thought he looked strange.
 
Ragoonath said: "This guy came out wearing a ski mask and a hunting light on his head. At first he just flashing around in the bushes and trees so we thought it was a hunter. We usually would see persons with head lamps, but the ski mask was not normal. But when he reached about eight or nine feet away from Trudy he just started to shoot and my brother fell to the ground. He (the killer) didn't look at us or anything. He just went up to him and shot him again to make sure he died. Then he just walked back from where he came, he didn't run away".
 
The family rushed Ramesar to the Couva Health Facility but he was pronounced dead on arrival there.
 
His mother, Sumatee Ragoonath, said her son was set up by persons whom he knew. "My son didn't interfere with anybody unless someone interfered with him," she said.
 
Ramesar served one year in jail in 1999 for stealing, his family said.

Between 8.30 p.m. on Saturday and 1 a.m. on Christmas Day, there were three more killings.
 
Bhagwandass, a 35-year-old watchman, was riding his bicycle along Abuckle Trace, Caroni, when a man walked up to him and shot him about the body. He fell and died on the roadway, police said.
 
His killing is believed to be as a result of old argument he had with another man over a quantity of cocaine, police said.
 
Dickson, 33, of Soogrim Trace, Laventille, was gunned down around 12.30 a.m., on Christmas Day. Officers from the Inter Agency Task Force (IATF) responded to reports of a shooting in the area.
 
When they got to the scene they found Dickson with a gunshot wound to the head and chest lying dead next to a community centre. Police believe his murder was gang related.
 
Marcano, 55, is believed to have been murdered around 1 a.m. the same day on the compound of a garbage disposal company at Patraj Trace, off the Don Miguel Road Extension, El Socorro, south.
 
The victim, who police said was employed as a watchman, and also lived on the premises, was seen arguing with two men who are believed to have murdered him.
 
One of the suspects is believed to have stabbed Marcano twice in the chest, killing him on the spot.
 
The men later went to the Barataria Police Station and claimed they "found" Marcano dead in a guard booth on the compound.
 
Army Sgt Froix, 40, and Mitchell, 24, an Arima resident, were gunned down while liming at D'Rum Shop bar in Valencia early on Saturday. Russell Samlal, another patron at the bar, was also shot and critically injured.
 
And in the first incident, which occurred at Upper Wharf Trace, Maracas/St Joseph around 8.45 p.m., Gillman, 35, of Prizgar Lands, Laventille, was shot 16 times about the body while liming at Upper Wharf Trace.
 
He died at the scene and his killing was described by police as being linked to a dispute he had with a drug dealer within the North Eastern Division.
 
—with reporting by Susan Mohammed
« Last Edit: January 04, 2012, 09:39:04 AM by Flex »
De higher a monkey climbs is de less his ass is on de line, if he works for FIFA that is! ;-)

Offline Socapro

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Dwayne Gibbs Thread
« Reply #165 on: December 29, 2011, 09:08:16 PM »
http://www.guardian.co.tt/gibbs-must-produce-anti-crime-plan%E2%80%94ag

Govt concerned over spike in murder rate...
Gibbs must produce anti-crime plan—AG

Published: Friday, December 30, 2011
Richard Lord

Attorney General Anand Ramlogan admitted yesterday that he was, personally, very disappointed over the recent increase in murders in T&T. At least eight people were killed during the Christmas holiday weekend in the country. There have been at least 15 murders in T&T since the state of emergency expired on December 5. Responding to questions during the last post-Cabinet news conference for the year at the Diplomatic centre in St Ann’s yesterday, Ramlogan said it was now up to Commissioner of Police Dwayne Gibbs to present his anti-crime plan to ensure the murder rate is kept to a minimum, after the success of the state of emergency.
 
“The Government is very concerned about the spike in the murder rate post- state of emergency,” Ramlogan said.
 
Ramlogan said he was “very anxious to hear from the Commissioner of Police, who has had the benefit of a year to settle into the job and who we hope would bring fresh ideas and a new perspective to be able to help us solve the crime problem.” Ramlogan said Gibbs “concept of 21st century policing had been bandied about and I am naturally disappointed in the spike in the murder rate.”  He said the Government “intends to ask for the plans that will lead to the suppression of this spike from the Commissioner of Police.” He said he was expecting that the matter would be discussed at a meeting of the National Security Council shortly.
 
Ramlogan said while the Government was not authorised to comment on the performance of Gibbs “my disappointment was a personal one and the concern of the Government remains given the fact that there has been a spike in the murder rate in the aftermath of the state of emergency.” He insisted: “The Commissioner of Police will be the best person to explain what measures were introduced, post state of emergency, to prevent this from happening and why those measures have failed and what he intends to do about it.” Ramlogan said the recent negative developments showed clearly that the state of emergency which was in effect from August 21 was necessary because it saved lives.
 
He said the murder rate was now lower when compared to the same period in previous years. He said that was no cause for rejoicing in the country. He said the gangs had been largely disabled as a consequence of the state of emergency. Ramlogan said no consideration was being given to declaring another state of emergency.
« Last Edit: January 04, 2012, 09:38:18 AM by Flex »
De higher a monkey climbs is de less his ass is on de line, if he works for FIFA that is! ;-)

Offline weary1969

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Re: Gibbs must produce anti-crime plan—AG
« Reply #166 on: December 29, 2011, 09:20:08 PM »
Give him  alook at d 1 d PP did promise in d manifesto. So he eh go have 2 strt from scratch. Help a brudder out.
Today you're the dog, tomorrow you're the hydrant - so be good to others - it comes back!"

Offline Jah Gol

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Re: Gibbs must produce anti-crime plan—AG
« Reply #167 on: December 29, 2011, 09:23:46 PM »
I kinda tired.

Offline Socapro

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Re: Gibbs must produce anti-crime plan—AG
« Reply #168 on: December 29, 2011, 10:18:28 PM »
Why do some of these fools belive that a SOE is required for police to do their jobs to gather evidence and then arrest and lock up criminals at all levels of society?

Are some folks in T&T really that gullibe and dotish?!  ???
De higher a monkey climbs is de less his ass is on de line, if he works for FIFA that is! ;-)

Offline weary1969

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Re: Gibbs must produce anti-crime plan—AG
« Reply #169 on: December 29, 2011, 10:25:53 PM »
Why do some of these fools belive that a SOE is required for police to do their jobs to gather evidence and then arrest and lock up criminals at all levels of society?

Are some folks in T&T really that gullibe and dotish?!  ???

Is d Pope Catholic?
Today you're the dog, tomorrow you're the hydrant - so be good to others - it comes back!"

Offline Brownsugar

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Re: Gibbs must produce anti-crime plan—AG
« Reply #170 on: December 30, 2011, 06:47:01 AM »
Now posting the Express version over in the 8 murders thread.....we really back to square one.....
"...If yuh clothes tear up
Or yuh shoes burst off,
You could still jump up when music play.
Old lady, young baby, everybody could dingolay...
Dingolay, ay, ay, ay ay,
Dingolay ay, ay, ay..."

RIP Shadow....The legend will live on in music...

Offline Brownsugar

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Re: The Dwayne Gibbs Thread.
« Reply #171 on: January 07, 2012, 06:38:36 AM »
*sigh*  Jah Gol, I tired too....

CoP Gibbs gives self passing grade on crime
By Rickie Ramdass


WITH approximately two weeks to go before the Police Service Commission brings to a completion its review of Police Commissioner Dwayne Gibbs, the commissioner has given himself a passing grade on his performance.

Speaking at a luncheon for members of the Media Association of Trinidad and Tobago (MATT) yesterday at the Hyatt Regency hotel, Wrightson Road, Port of Spain, Gibbs said contrary to claims from several quarters that crime was on the rise, he said this was not so.

The function was sponsored by the Office of the Commissioner of Police from the budget for such events, MATT officials explained.

When asked by reporters how he would assess his own performance since becoming this country's Police Commissioner in 2010, Gibbs said: "I will let the statistics speak for themselves."

He said compared to previous years, Trinidad and Tobago has experienced a dramatic decrease in serious crimes, with much credit being given to the 21st Century Policing Initiative.

"Let me say, first of all, that crime is not getting worse. If we look at the statistics, from 2009, 2010, 2011, we would see that serious crime is down by roughly 20 per cent. We know that with the SoE (State of Emergency), all serious crimes were decreased by roughly 50 per cent," he said.

Gibbs said the main concern of the Police Service going into this year was to work even more assiduously in decreasing the crime rate further.

"This is a good position to be in. Will we still have crime? Yes. Will we have spikes in crime? Yes, we will, but we will do everything in our powers to keep crime from spiralling out of control.

In terms of my evaluation, I will let the statistics speak for themselves. The work that we have been doing will speak for that. As everybody knows, I will not be satisfied with where we are at. I will work to improve what has already been started. There is always opportunity to do better," said Gibbs.

http://www.trinidadexpress.com/news/CoP_Gibbs_gives_self_passing_grade_on_crime-136860438.html
"...If yuh clothes tear up
Or yuh shoes burst off,
You could still jump up when music play.
Old lady, young baby, everybody could dingolay...
Dingolay, ay, ay, ay ay,
Dingolay ay, ay, ay..."

RIP Shadow....The legend will live on in music...

Offline mukumsplau

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Re: The Dwayne Gibbs Thread.
« Reply #172 on: January 07, 2012, 01:16:42 PM »
somebody need to whisper in gibbs ear...self praise is no praise..

in fact..put it on that electronic billboard on independence square

Offline Bourbon

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Re: The Dwayne Gibbs Thread.
« Reply #173 on: January 07, 2012, 05:14:04 PM »
somebody need to whisper in gibbs ear...self praise is no praise..

in fact..put it on that electronic billboard on independence square


Dat not true. If yuh doh praise yuhself...who go praise yuh?

Ent yuh could give yuhself silk?
The greatest single cause of atheism in the world today are Christians who acknowledge Jesus ;with their lips and walk out the door and deny Him by their lifestyle. That is what an unbelieving world simply finds unbelievable.

Offline weary1969

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Re: The Dwayne Gibbs Thread.
« Reply #174 on: January 07, 2012, 05:30:55 PM »
somebody need to whisper in gibbs ear...self praise is no praise..

in fact..put it on that electronic billboard on independence square


Dat not true. If yuh doh praise yuhself...who go praise yuh?

Ent yuh could give yuhself silk?


 :beermug: YUH PREACH DEY
Today you're the dog, tomorrow you're the hydrant - so be good to others - it comes back!"

Offline Football supporter

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Top Cops Quit
« Reply #175 on: July 30, 2012, 10:00:56 PM »
TOP COPS QUIT
...PM announces resignation of Gibbs, Ewatski
By Anna Ramdass anna.ramdass@trinidadexpress.com

Story Created: Jul 30, 2012 at 10:43 PM ECT

Story Updated: Jul 30, 2012 at 11:09 PM ECT
Commissioner of Police Dwayne Gibbs and Deputy Commissioner of Police Jack Ewatski have tendered their resignations which will take effect on August 7, Prime Minister Kamla Persad-Bissessar announced last night.
In the same breath, a tough-talking Persad-Bissessar assured that curbing crime is her Government’s main priority and new measures will be announced in the coming weeks to deal with the pressing problem.
A special Cabinet meeting was convened yesterday at the Diplomatic Centre, St Ann’s to discuss the issue.
At just after 8 p.m. the Prime Minister delivered her five-minute address.
Persad-Bissessar said she was advised that the Police Service Commission (PSC) met and considered the resignation letters of Gibbs and Ewatski which were dated July 26, 2012.
Both men were hired in September 2010, and were paid million-dollar annual salaries along with several other perks.
She read a release from the PSC which advised of the resignations and the Commission’s commitment to managing the transition process of appointing a new CoP and deputy.
The PSC, she said, is engaged in the process of appointing persons to fill the vacancies.
“On behalf of the Government and people of Trinidad and Tobago I wish to thank Commissioner Gibbs and deputy Commissioner Ewatski for their service. We stand ready to support the new acting Commissioner of Police and other deputy Commissioners and we pray for their success,” said Persad-Bissessar.
“...Rest assured that all necessary resources will be placed at the disposal of those reposed with the authority and responsibility of getting the job done quickly and effectively,” she added.
Gibbs and Ewatski, both Canadians, who were selected by the PSC in 2010 to fill the posts of top cops and approved by Parliament. Since their appointments they have been the subject of criticism over the spiralling murder rate.
Persad-Bissessar said last night that there is an urgency to guarantee the nation’s safety and security.
“No measure will be spared against those who seek to terrorise and brutalise our elderly folk, our women, our children and our men. The national outrage has reached a stage where everyone agrees that stronger and more aggressive initiatives are required,” she said.
“We must channel this sense of outrage into an army of resistance involving our law-abiding citizens. The battle lines are clearly drawn, we are confident that good will prevail over evil,” she added.
“Ours is a duty of hard action to be taken against those who wish to threaten public safety at any level and we will deal with them in the full force of the law,” said Persad-Bissessar.
Persad-Bissessar, as head of the National Security Council, said that several “major shifts” in policy and programmes were identified to arrest the issue of crime as Government’s number one priority.
National Security Minister Jack Warner, she said, will announce these changes in the next few weeks.
Even as calls have been made for Warner to be fired from her Cabinet, given the latest findings by the Court of Arbitration for Sport (CAS) report, the Prime Minister called on the nation to support Warner. Earlier this month, the international tribunal made damning findings against Warner in his involvement in a May 2011 meeting involving Caribbean football officials and former FIFA presidential candidate Mohamed Bin Hammam.
“I ask that you give him all of our support as you will give to those who will fill the vacancies created in the Police Service,” she appealed. Deputy Commissioner Stephen Williams is tipped to fill the void.
“We will work to create tactical and intelligence units of the joint services that will become the pride of law enforcement and the terror of the underworld. Together with you our citizens of Trinidad and Tobago we will emancipate ourselves from the burden of fear, from the burden of lawlessness and unbridled violence,” said the Prime Minister.

Offline Football supporter

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Re: Top Cops Quit
« Reply #176 on: July 30, 2012, 10:02:34 PM »
Just thinking....many people criticised these guys salaries. But TT$6 million for over two years is better value than TT$12 million for a day with Shaq!

Offline maxg

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Re: Top Cops Quit
« Reply #177 on: July 30, 2012, 11:38:54 PM »
Just thinking....many people criticised these guys salaries. But TT$6 million for over two years is better value than TT$12 million for a day with Shaq!

But like yuh doh understand TTians in truth  :devil:

Offline zuluwarrior

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Re: The Dwayne Gibbs Thread.
« Reply #178 on: July 31, 2012, 04:57:25 AM »
I wonder how much tax payer $$$$$ they were paid to leave .
.
good things happening to good people: a good thing
good things happening to bad people: a bad thing
bad things happening to good people: a bad thing
bad things happening to bad people: a good thing

Offline Brownsugar

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Re: The Dwayne Gibbs Thread.
« Reply #179 on: July 31, 2012, 05:37:26 AM »
I find Gibbs shoulda throw he frame since the Nizam Mohammed incident.  That said he is now being removed so that the pee pee puppet Williams could be installed.  Just like the SOE, I have a funny feeling deep inside mih that ah just cyar shake.....
"...If yuh clothes tear up
Or yuh shoes burst off,
You could still jump up when music play.
Old lady, young baby, everybody could dingolay...
Dingolay, ay, ay, ay ay,
Dingolay ay, ay, ay..."

RIP Shadow....The legend will live on in music...