Is Dutch style Trinidad's adopted style?

[rocoply]

Trinidad's most success has come from using the Dutch style of play(Total Football)....it seems to me that our federation has chosen this is what we want to emulate for the future, considering we are hiring Dutch coaches to teach our coaches also. Did Leo make such an impression that we have now decided that this is the future of Trinidad football. I must say Dutch coaches seem to make an impression in getting to World Cups and also featuring in many of the Top teams in Europe style of play but are Trinis able to handle the rigorous discipline that dutch football demands. Is this our best option considering the other styles of play English(long ball), Spainish(ticky tock), Brazilian & Portugese(Samba),Italian(Defensive), African(Speed & Power), South American(Skill and Flare), American(Machine Mentality), German(Technical & Power), other Euro teams(Highly Technical and Tactical). Are Trinis made for Total football or would one of these other mentalities be suited to us. Note the fact that almost all of these styles discipline is probably the factor that creates world beaters.

[che]

Right now we cah even play basic football and you talking about Total football.

[lefty]

Right now we cah even play basic football and you talking about Total football.

yuh does wonder when d romantics would wake up to dis fact......sighh

[dwn]

Did we play total football under Beenhakker? No
Is it our goal to adopt this style for the future? Probably

Not sure anyone can really provide the answer to your question though - to me, you've oversimplified football styles into a set of groupings that aren't necessarily accurate or mutually exclusive, while implying/or assuming that trinis have some sort of collective mentality that limits what we're "made for".

[Saltanfresh]

A country'e style of play is usually a product of that country's culture:
 Brazil: Flare "the beautiful game", Italy:Catenacchio "loll you to sleep then hang yuh jack" like the mob, Germany: Disciplined "stick to a plan football" like their well engineered cars.

So the question remains where does T&T culture leave us? Remember culture is not just steelband, tassa, chutney, it how you walk, how you talk, what you eat, etc....and unfortunately some will argue that lately we have adopted a murderous cold-blooded culture as well. So I wonder what style does our national team now naturally play?

The Corbeaux Brand comes to mind, a mix up style that sometimes resembles the English long ball (with the complements of those guys who now play there), combined with some small-goal individual dribbling, along with some wild-tackle; put them all together and you got the Corbeaux Brand...or i almost forgot..add some feting and drinking when they should be resting ...add some Royal Caslte and KFC instead of proper diets, and you have our Senior team...Tah-Dah!

[g]

The dutch reached the world cup final last year by NOT playing the type football we have grown accustomed to over the years. Conservative opportunistc and full of grit and determination.

Go figure!

Over the years countries like Brazil, Argentina, Holland, Germany etc. promoted a footballing philosophy by ensuring they found the right set of players to facilitate. In smaller countries like ourselves we don't have the player pool to facilitate a philosophy. In fact it is the other way around, we take players with individual strengths and try to create something cohesive.

The inherent problem is that we think we should be playing a particular style, in my opinion i could care little about style. I prefer to win games full stop. If Kenwyne Jones our best threat in front of our goal then we should find the player who can help him succeed by providing him with a supply of crosses to give him the best opportunity cause he has proven that at the EPL level he can find the back of the net with good supply.

I have seen him play for the national team, we have a thought process that once he playing EPL ball he should be head and shoulders above the rest but over 90 minutes he wouldn't get one opportunity to attack a crossed ball. Fail fail situation if you ask me. Put 10 crosses in the box every game and i sure he will win at least a couple of them.

[injunchile]

Gally said it is a Soca Brand. Fast Slow / lose Concentration/ Give up early goal and then fight to the finish. It is like awaiting one"s costume on Sunday nite or after Jouvert
 LaST MINUTE THING

[lefty]

it is inherently trini to put more stuck in style dan substance, yuh keep hearing man sayin "ah want to win, but it mus please mih eye"......me I jus want to win...flams doh bodder me......but dais jus me....especially here

[rastarocket7]

why cant we get our shit together and play our own game? we dont need to adopt no ones style just need to tighten the loose ends and play our own game

[Storeboy]

We could only play the brand of football our players allow us to play.  We don't have skilled players like Brazil and our technical ability is mediocre at best.  What Beenhaker brought was discipline where discipline is usually lacking. So, the coach has to be able to access what kind of players he has and implement a brand to suit.  Our players play all over the world and do fairly well, so just be disciplined and play hard.  That is what we need.  Ah like the Corbeaux Brand though!

[rocoply]

What about the pot-hong brand.....too mix up of other breeds and influences to ever have quality

[frico]

What about the pot-hong brand.....too mix up of other breeds and influences to ever have quality

Brazil also have mix up breed and culture too,ah hope yuh know dat.

[rocoply]

Even if Brazil used other infuences to bring their own style to birth ...their mix up breed football evolved into a superior breed.....which is prolly why they are liked and disliked by so many football purists. Some clap them for being a non European power house while Europeans despise the fact that they made a game that slaves can play better.

Back on the topic though.....i used the Grouping styles just for an example of what else Trinidadians could adopt......obviously one can find differing examples from countries but most of the time those are the factors innate to their play.

And Leo did use "Total Football" manual for Trinidad, he just couldn't teach everything in a few months....I mean it is TOTAL....he just focused on what he found important to get the job done......obviously now the TTFF has realized their mistake in that they only got a few chapters of the total football book and want to get the rest.

[College]

steups!....'Total football' done come and gone donkey years now and how much world cup Holland win?

[Controversial]

trinidad style of play is very similar to south american football, the pro league and super league not paying players enough for men to be fully committed. alot of players for example in the super have another job or 2 jobs to feed themselves and their family.

the pro league coaches are piss poor and the board is a waste of time. how do you expect the best players to ply their trade in a joke local league.

the other footballers that go abroad to college, get an education and play at a higher level.

the players who play locally and get contracts abroad are lucky if they break epl and the higher leagues.

you have coaches coming to trinidad on the regular and talk about the talent, some players, an example "kenwyne jones was scouted by an english coach when the locals didn't realize his talent.

however, kenwyne is still playing out of position, he would be a better attacking right back or stopper, not a striker where he was now been converted to.

tt does not lack the player pool nor talent, they lack the local league and coaching, accompanied by poor structure with the ttff.

when you watch street ball, small goal and pick up, you see natural skill, some men don't even bother playing pro because the money is not there.

[kicker]

And Leo did use "Total Football" manual for Trinidad, he just couldn't teach everything in a few months....I mean it is TOTAL....he just focused on what he found important to get the job done......obviously now the TTFF has realized their mistake in that they only got a few chapters of the total football book and want to get the rest.

I don't think you understand what total football is. 

Total football is a football "philosophy" or tactical approach where no player is limited to only one position- so throughout the 90 minutes of a game, players are continuously interchanging positions and roles in a fluid manner.  Most times in today's football when a defender goes forward into the attack, if the play breaks down and there's a gap we generally refer to that as being "caught out of position".  In the total football philosophy that doesn't happen, because, as players move "out of position" they are replaced by another teammate and the formation is maintained.  We did not play like this under Beenie. 

[Deeks]

my ten sense. Our brand of football depends on the crop of players that we groom. Never count out the TFA/TTFF to F-up things also.

If they skillful like the 50' and 60s,80s, we will give a nice brand. The 67 Panam team was groomed in the 50s. LP, Sedley, Gerry Brown, Pat Small, Bobby Sookram, Jean, Tyrone, Bert Grell, Alwyn Furgusson, Eddie Aleong, Berasa, etc.

The 70 WC team was good but they played all their games away(TFA had no money).

They 74WC & CAC  team had guys from the 60s and early 70s. Gally, Murren, Rondon, Archibald, Steve David, Figaro, Barclay,Steve Khan, carpette, Peter Mitchell, Spann, Sammy, etc, etc

Then the Italy WC squad had players who were talented but aimless. Is only when Gally brought his philosophy to the team we saw another bunch of amatuers playing like pros until that fatal(fateful) day.

The same can be said about the 2006 WC team. Aimless players made to play a constructive brand.

My thing is. You can't even play a Corbeau brand if you can't master the ball. If you can't trap, pass the kick properly everthing else is useless. Master the fundamentals and then you can play any brand.

[rocoply]

Kicker your talking about the total football of the 70s....total football has modernized and has given more impetus to ball possession and passing.....and the use of the interchanging wingers and wing backs......when Leo adopted T&T our wingers/wing backs worked together although one noticed when we came up against the top teams we held position.

[Peong]

Lack of competent players is going to make any playing style irrelevant.

[rocoply]

People are always quick to criticize our players technical ability but having played in college and seeing some of the best US players....our players are even more technical and gifted than some of the players on the US youth pool. Our problem has always been staying consistent.....one night Hayden Tinto would like like a super star and on the other night he would look like a huge flop....Kenwyn Jones suffers from the same problem ....Cornell Glenn who looks like a world beater some nights will flop the next night.....the funny thing is players in the National Pool are not shitty and terrible as ppl make them out to be.....consistency comes with discipline and discipline can also be added from a philosophy........think about outside Trinidad and Inter Milan....they had the same players the year before they won the Champions league but those same players adopted a philosophy and stuck to it and it paid off. Which is why it is important for Trinidad to adopt a philosophy or style and implement it from the grass roots up. So all the ppl who are saying we don't have the talent ...its not that....its because we don't have Discipline/a set mandate to follow

[Football supporter]

I think the talent is there, but like someone else said, the coaches are not talented enough. If you look at the EPL, most top coaches, including the last two national coaches, are foreign. Very few British coaches make it through to the EPL, and those that do are mediocre by EPL standards. And the British guys get great courses and benefitted from playing at a high level.

In the ProLeague, eveyone aside from Fenwick, is basically local. They come to the game with a certain mindset and seem unable to change their styles when necessary or develop talent.

A new National coach needs to spend time with these coaches explaining what they need to look for and how to develop the players.

The last two foreign exports are an indication. Kenwyne was playing defensive midfield before his potential as a striker was spotted and developed. I believe that Carlos wasn't originally an attacking left back??

The only time I've seen this kind of inventive thinking in the ProLeague this season was when Kevaughan Cornell was switched from striker to attacking left wing back (watch him for North East tomorrow). He definately  needs to get a spell in the national squad. But to be fair, there may be others that I don't know about.

[saga pinto]

why cant we get our shit together and play our own game? we dont need to adopt no ones style just need to tighten the loose ends and play our own game

And What's that?

[Tallman]

The only time I've seen this kind of inventive thinking in the ProLeague this season was when Kevaughan Cornell was switched from striker to attacking left wing back (watch him for North East tomorrow). He definately  needs to get a spell in the national squad. But to be fair, there may be others that I don't know about.

He come back again?

[fish]

Boom kick, try and beats, loose d ball, try and chase the opposite team. Repeat.

[Controversial]

People are always quick to criticize our players technical ability but having played in college and seeing some of the best US players....our players are even more technical and gifted than some of the players on the US youth pool. Our problem has always been staying consistent.....one night Hayden Tinto would like like a super star and on the other night he would look like a huge flop....Kenwyn Jones suffers from the same problem ....Cornell Glenn who looks like a world beater some nights will flop the next night.....the funny thing is players in the National Pool are not shitty and terrible as ppl make them out to be.....consistency comes with discipline and discipline can also be added from a philosophy........think about outside Trinidad and Inter Milan....they had the same players the year before they won the Champions league but those same players adopted a philosophy and stuck to it and it paid off. Which is why it is important for Trinidad to adopt a philosophy or style and implement it from the grass roots up. So all the ppl who are saying we don't have the talent ...its not that....its because we don't have Discipline/a set mandate to follow

excellent reply

people are quick to condemn our players, when they should look at system and show some confidence in them and a coach that can take them to the next level. we don't have the coach to take us to the next level, maybe now we do, but it has always been a case of coaching and the system, never the talent or pool of players

[maxg]

 

[kicker]

Kicker your talking about the total football of the 70s....total football has modernized and has given more impetus to ball possession and passing.....and the use of the interchanging wingers and wing backs......when Leo adopted T&T our wingers/wing backs worked together although one noticed when we came up against the top teams we held position.

Whatever you say dude... I would bet anything that if Trinidad played identically to how it did in the 2006 campaign, but under a local coach or any non-Dutch coach for that matter, yuh wouldn't be uttering a peep about us playing "total football"...

By your definition, every professional team in the world playin' total football...why even brand it then?

But if you say so, is so....

[Peong]

Anyone who can teach our defenders to track off-the-ball runs will be an improvement.

[che]

People are always quick to criticize our players technical ability but having played in college and seeing some of the best US players....our players are even more technical and gifted than some of the players on the US youth pool. Our problem has always been staying consistent.....one night Hayden Tinto would like like a super star and on the other night he would look like a huge flop....Kenwyn Jones suffers from the same problem ....Cornell Glenn who looks like a world beater some nights will flop the next night.....the funny thing is players in the National Pool are not shitty and terrible as ppl make them out to be.....consistency comes with discipline and discipline can also be added from a philosophy........think about outside Trinidad and Inter Milan....they had the same players the year before they won the Champions league but those same players adopted a philosophy and stuck to it and it paid off. Which is why it is important for Trinidad to adopt a philosophy or style and implement it from the grass roots up. So all the ppl who are saying we don't have the talent ...its not that....its because we don't have Discipline/a set mandate to follow

excellent reply

people are quick to condemn our players, when they should look at system and show some confidence in them and a coach that can take them to the next level. we don't have the coach to take us to the next level, maybe now we do, but it has always been a case of coaching and the system, never the talent or pool of players

rocoply , ah hope you know that if TI agree with your point of view then that means that most people disagree with it.

[AB.Trini]

Not jumping high not jumping low. Is like returning to the  ole guyl who gave yuh yuh first blow!!! so if we looking for the legacy of the Dutch, then so be it.

Now they say it real hard to please we; ah mean look at this man pedigree, experience and exposure to international football, compare this with the still 'present ' coach' and man  saying he eh have a great track record? Give the ma's credentials, could he do any worse than what we just suffered through?

Oh lawd,... leh we watch this ride or merry go round of coaches once more; there ios only one common denominator to  faacck this up ...yeha yuh guessed it the faaaccckkkinnggg TTFFF the same one that brough us Beenie man now her we go round and round once more.

To stay positive: a tribute  with regards to David Rudder..... We need a rallying song  to start this era; here is mine:

                                 DUTCH IN DEY FACE
                         Adapted lyrics & melody; David Rudder (1992)
“ Oh Gorm!” ah fella  write out like he drink a rum
“ Oh Gorm!”  It was a man from the S.W. forum
Shot call, ah fella post ah thread and start tuh cuss
How come they had given the prize fust to Latapy and he buss
When them players come back from Europe  they go play like mad
They go spanner and beats and run JA’s  from they yard
Even J.W. start to make he planning for big money he envisioning
He say, “they can’t beat we they go have to start petitioning
He telling them they go have tuh beg for mercy
We coming and it’s  doye, doye doye  doye doye
When all dem islands see we come down
Tell them war declare in TnT is Dutch in dey face!!
Dutch in dey face!!!
Goals will be blasting
In this football war, Dutch in dey face
Ah tell allyuh is Dutch in dey face
Tell them we looking fuh fight, it’s trouble all year right
Tell them we feeling all right, it’a football war bredda
We coming out for war, we go settle some score
Them footballers  hungry fuh spite
Allyuh islanders watch out is   Dutch in dey face
Is Dutch in dey face is Dutch in dey face
Tell Cuba, Jamaica and Vincy all yuh win ah warm up but with World Cup at stake is no grace
Cause is  Dutch in dey face  Dutch in dey face  Dutch in dey face
Living on the edge from now till 2014
We must refuse to think about lose
Nobody could beat we
Ah tell yuh nanananannan
Is the return of  Dutch in dey face Dutch in dey face Dutch in dey face