Egypt

[elan]

Dutty did you reread what yuh just wrote? The french revolution DID NOT happen because a croissant vendor drowned....it may have been an incident that may have happened but it was not a propelling factor.

What the world is witnessing in Egypt is the truest form of democracy..imagine if that were to occur in the US then again it wouldn't too many laws against assembling en masse without a permit...

Really?  Ever heard of "freedom of association"?  There is nothing that blanketly prevents people from assembling en masse without a permit as you said... if they were to assemble in the streets without a permit then that would be a different issue.  You can't just spontaneously start to march in the streets and block traffic... and for good reason.

Besides... every two years people get to vote and effect some sort of national change, so yes, something like a Tahrir Sq. is indeed difficult to happen in the US.

So which is the truest form of democracy?

[Bakes]

So which is the truest form of democracy?

Lol... what kinda Mensa question is dat?  Me eh dat bright... but true democracy hasn't really existed in... I dunno, maybe never.  The truest form of democracy gives every man an equal say, but also means that the majority's will prevails.  The first part is intrinsic to any form of democracy, each man does indeed get equal say.  But the majority always getting its way I'm not sure if that's ever happened.

As far as the majority getting it's way... every democracy that I can think of has been a system of representative government, it's never been mob rule- not even during the French Revolution when the sans culottes was sitting in the Assembly and voting.  Representative government means that even though you and I voting for our Representative, we not really controlling his vote.  So the votes in the Congress/Parliament/Assembly might reflect the will of the majority within that body, but those votes may not really reflect what the majority of the population wants.  And that's a good thing... left to majority rule in certain parts ah dis country and black people would still be picking cotton.

[MEP]

Bakes
Freedom of association is often within the context of an organization. In Egypt people are collectively fed up with the regime and what started as outrage by a couple of groups grew into an entity of its own. Lets say people were collectively fed up in the US that sort of assembly would never be permitted simply because while you have the right to assemble you have to be permittted to do so. Look back to the 60's, look at when the G20 summit takes place...or simply look at what happens in anticipation of a superbowl win.

[Bakes]

Bakes
Freedom of association is often within the context of an organization.

Not at all.  Freedom of association is an individual right not an organizational right. 

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

It means exactly what it says, but it's not an exclusive right, but made subject to reasonable government regulation.  For instance, the goverment can't prevent you from assembling, but it can control how, when and where... within reason.

In Egypt people are collectively fed up with the regime and what started as outrage by a couple of groups grew into an entity of its own. Lets say people were collectively fed up in the US that sort of assembly would never be permitted simply because while you have the right to assemble you have to be permittted to do so. Look back to the 60's, look at when the G20 summit takes place...or simply look at what happens in anticipation of a superbowl win.

So what you think all dem Tea Party rallies of the past two years have been?  The difference as I said is that you won't get spontaneous assemblies like in Tahrir Square.  I don't know much about Tahrir Square but I assume it is a public square where traffic normally passes thru.  The right to use of such a public space in the US would belong to not just the protestors but also to the rest of the public who don't want to stuck in a crowd of protestors.  So permits are necessary to ensure that everybody gets to use the space... protestors will have it for a finite time while the rest of the public, including traffic, gets diverted by police so that the protestors can have their say.

To say that people have to be "permitted" to assemble in the US distorts reality.  In a very technical sense yes, but in reality a permit is a perfunctory matter.... the government can't just deny you a permit.  So even if things get to a head people can apply and get their permits and go call Obama all kinda "Socialist" monkey to their hearts content. 

[MEP]

Let me expand a little, freedom of association is an individual right but in the context that one is assembling with like minded people and that everyone who is there chooses to be there but to ensure that all who are there are of the same purpose the state asks purpose of assembly usually through some umbrella group. It's not like one could just send an email saying we at the corner of so an socause we eh what happening

[Bakes]

Let me expand a little, freedom of association is an individual right but in the context that one is assembling with like minded people and that everyone who is there chooses to be there but to ensure that all who are there are of the same purpose the state asks purpose of assembly usually through some umbrella group. It's not like one could just send an email saying we at the corner of so an socause we eh what happening

Well of course... the government not going to grant permits to each and every one of the 200,000 protesters.  But incorporated in that right is that an individual does not need a permit to assemble... groups do, if assembling in public.

As for the bolded, this is simply not true.  As part of the permit process the government may ask reasonable questions rearding the scope of the assembly... how many people expected, for how long, any amplified equipment etc.  But asking the "purpose of the assembly" is not required, that opens the government (in this case the police) to charges of censorship etc.  The process of issuing the permit is supposed to be a neutral one and asking the "purpose" etc. goes agains that presumption of neutrality.

[pecan]

I hear now that democracy is on the verge of going viral in Egypt, ashley madison want to set up in Egypt.   

[weary1969]

I hear now that democracy is on the verge of going viral in Egypt, ashley madison want to set up in Egypt.   

 

[Bitter]

Was watching this clip on CNN.com. Check out the change in the translator voice.


<a href="http://i.cdn.turner.com/cnn/.element/apps/cvp/3.0/swf/cnn_416x234_embed.swf?context=embed&amp;videoId=bestoftv/2011/02/11/exp.sot.mubarak.statement.cnn" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">http://i.cdn.turner.com/cnn/.element/apps/cvp/3.0/swf/cnn_416x234_embed.swf?context=embed&amp;videoId=bestoftv/2011/02/11/exp.sot.mubarak.statement.cnn</a>


Also, technically what happened in Egypt was a coup.

[Bakes]

Meh ... I doh trust the military as far as I could throw them.  Wake me after "free and fair" elections are held.

[zuluwarrior]

Bakes because yuh name start with B fuh Bas right, cling tut try very hard to hold on but to the end he had to let go , all that he did in 30 yrs jus vanish in 18 days and life jus move on .

Switzerland's government moved Friday to freeze any assets in the country's banks that might belong to former Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak or his family, the Swiss Federal Department of Foreign Affairs said Friday.

Mubarak ended his 30-year reign Friday, stepping down following 18 days of protests against his rule. (CNN.com - Egypt's Mubarak resigns after 30-year rule)

0Email Print An official statement from the Swiss Federal Department of Foreign Affairs said the Swiss cabinet had frozen all funds belong to Mubarak or "his circles."

"The [government] intends in doing so to avoid any risk of embezzlement of Egyptian state property," the statement read. "At the same time, the cabinet calls on responsible authorities in Egypt to comply with the justified demands of the Egyptian people in a quick, credible, participatory and transparent manner."

The government does not know what assets, if any, the banks have, said Norbert Baerlocher, a spokesman for the Swiss embassy in Washington.

It is widely believed that Mubarak and his family are extremely wealthy, but estimates as to his total net worth vary widely and haven't been confirmed

[Bakes]

Bakes because yuh name start with B fuh Bas right...

Nah this ent "wake me when it's over", this is "wake me when there's actual democratic rule", because all ah dis celebration is premature.  People acting like the battle over when in fact it now starting.  Remember Mubarak is himself a former general... these are his friends and cohorts who take over and supposedly have the best interest of the people in mind?  They not likely to do anything to piss off the US, dependent on US finance and military technology as they are... but whose to say that they'll be ceding control to a civilian government anytime soon?  And even if they do... who's to say that they won't try to sit and manipulat the situation behind the scene?

As I said... I just don't trust them.

[vb]

For the Fatima bredren, Raul Thomas who was in class with Samo and I works in Cairo.

Hope all is wel with him.

VB

[E-man]

Bahrain now getting protests
http://www.businessweek.com/news/2011-02-14/bahrain-protesters-vow-second-day-of-anti-government-rallies.html

[Bakes]

... and Iran.

[Conquering Lion]

Meh ... I doh trust the military as far as I could throw them.  Wake me after "free and fair" elections are held.

Exactly. What struck me was the fact that the military used the same language as Abu Bakr and dem boys...... "Free and fair elections." BTW.......same lingo used by Idi Amin and Mubuto back in the days.

AS someone rightly said....."technically it was a coup" so it is left to be seen if this is a power grab by the military.

[ribbit]

with respect to the lara logan story, these news organizations (cbs) sending people to cover a revolution with ink and a copybook and no meaningful security are soulless.