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Author Topic: Libyan Rebels.  (Read 15986 times)

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Offline Daft Trini

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Re: Libyan Rebels.
« Reply #30 on: March 22, 2011, 04:58:27 PM »
Had to go to a military base today... many soldiers I spoke to are against the strike.

Offline Dutty

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Re: Libyan Rebels.
« Reply #31 on: March 22, 2011, 05:03:26 PM »

You and Kounty woulda prefer that the world sit idly by and watch Ghaddafi continue to slaughter the protesters... or better yet, protesters shoulda just siddung dey and take bullet and not fight back, ent?

Yes Major  :salute:  that would be my preference ::)
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Offline Daft Trini

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Re: Libyan Rebels.
« Reply #32 on: March 22, 2011, 05:31:13 PM »
It is from my experience, when a Prez says he will not commit troops, they always send "contractors"

For instance in Iraq troops are being withdrawn but "civilian contractors" are still there.

Pray for Obama... Press Sec for WH and State Department were overwhelmed by the myriad of questions reporters had for them today... no one had a straight answer to the reporters questions.

Offline Bakes

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Re: Libyan Rebels.
« Reply #33 on: March 23, 2011, 07:17:08 AM »
Yes Major  :salute:  that would be my preference ::)


A simple "I admit, I was wrong" would suffice.


Look the imperial crusader bastards send two more fellas tuh invade Libya... dai'z what 10 now?



Marines Face Questions About Rescue of Officers in Libya

By ELISABETH BUMILLER

WASHINGTON — An American pilot and a weapons officer were safely rescued in Libya on Tuesday after their warplane crashed near Benghazi, but the United States Marine Corps dropped two 500-pound bombs during the recovery and faced questions about whether Marines had fired on villagers.

In an episode that reflected the unpredictability of an air campaign designed to keep American troops off the ground, the United States military said that an equipment malfunction rather than enemy fire brought down the plane. A Marine Corps officer in the Mediterranean strongly denied that any shots were fired at civilians during the rescue, but Marine Corps officers at the Pentagon said they did not know what happened or whether any civilians were killed or injured when the bombs exploded.

United States military officials said the pilot was recovered by a Marine rescue team and was now aboard an American ship in the Mediterranean, the Kearsarge. The weapons officer was found on the ground by “the people of Libya,” said Adm. Samuel J. Locklear III, the tactical commander of the United States-led effort in the country. At a Pentagon briefing, Admiral Locklear did not describe them as rebels but made clear that they were not forces loyal to Col. Muammar el-Qaddafi.

Admiral Locklear said the people treated the weapons officer “with dignity and respect.” The officer is now in American custody, but the admiral declined to say more.

United States military officers said the plane took off from Aviano Air Base in northeastern Italy late Monday on an airstrike mission to Libya. At some point over Benghazi, the jet experienced what military officials called an “equipment malfunction,” and at about 11:30 p.m. local time on Monday (about 5:30 p.m. Eastern time on Monday), both the pilot and the weapons officer ejected.

Their parachutes opened but landed them some distance apart near Benghazi, the military said. Although details remained murky on Tuesday, the Marine Corps said a rescue team that took off from the Kearsarge quickly located the pilot.

A Marine Corps officer said that the grounded pilot, who was in contact with rescue crews in the air, asked for bombs to be dropped as a precaution before the crews landed to pick him up. “My understanding is he asked for the ordnance to be delivered between where he was located and where he saw people coming toward him,” the officer said, adding that the pilot evidently made the request “to keep what he thought was a force closing in on him from closing in on him.”

In response, two Harrier attack jets that were part of the rescue team dropped two 500-pound bombs before a Marine Osprey helicopter landed to pick up the pilot, at about 1:30 a.m. Tuesday local time. The Marine officer said he did not know if the people approaching the pilot were friendly or hostile or what damage the bombs had caused.

Channel 4 News in Britain reported that six villagers were shot by American troops in rescuing one of the two airmen. None of the villagers — who were interviewed by a reporter in a nearby hospital — were killed, although a small boy may need to have a leg amputated.

“No shots were fired,” said Capt. Richard Ulsh, a Marine spokesman aboard the Kearsarge. “The Osprey is not armed, and the Marines barely got off the aircraft. I was in the landing center the whole time, where we were monitoring what was going on, and firing was never reported.”

Neither he nor other Marine officials said specifically whether any shots were fired from the Harrier attack jets.

The military is investigating.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/23/world/africa/23plane.html

Offline Dutty

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Re: Libyan Rebels.
« Reply #34 on: March 23, 2011, 09:14:29 AM »
A simple "I admit, I was wrong" would suffice.

Ohh..another promotion for you sir

Major Argument to General Opposition

YOU encouraging  someone to "admit they were wrong" is so full of irony it's laughably heavy…you reallly should take that act on the road
BUT if you keep holding these grudges dey might demote yuh to PETTY officer

Nevertheless, General  :salute:..I forget,what am I wrong about again?

 Western Soldiers on the ground in Libya?

Active African Mercenary death squads?

Humanitarian Hypocrisy missions?

The Saudi Justice system and its troops?

Marvin Oliver does smoke weed?

Only "spear chuckers" don’t stand for the american anthem?

An F-16 has propellers?

The definition of invasion?

A small maxi can hold 18 people comfortably?

People of nations with no oil are not worth defending?

King Gustaf of Sweden always wore gold cufflinks?

If you could just highlight the ones you want an admission of error for, or perhaps underscore all of them I would  be happy to grant your request :salute: :salute:
« Last Edit: March 23, 2011, 09:31:38 AM by Dutty »
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Offline ribbit

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Re: Libyan Rebels.
« Reply #35 on: March 23, 2011, 11:48:05 AM »
looks like this coalition going sideways. obuma might well win gold medal when it come to reading other people words off a teleprompter but he FAIL when it come to leadership.

Offline Bakes

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Re: Libyan Rebels.
« Reply #36 on: March 26, 2011, 10:24:15 AM »
More imperialist yankee crusader propaganda no doubt...


March 26, 2011

Libyan Woman Struggles to Tell Media of Her Rape


By DAVID D. KIRKPATRICK

TRIPOLI, Libya — A Libyan woman burst into the hotel housing the foreign press in Tripoli on Saturday morning in an attempt to tell journalists that she had been raped and beaten by members of Col. Muammar el-Qaddafi’s militia. After struggling for nearly an hour to resist removal by Colonel Qaddafi’s security forces, she was dragged away from the hotel screaming.

“They say that we are all Libyans and we are one people,” said the woman, who gave her name as Eman al-Obeidy, barging in during breakfast at the hotel dining room. “But look at what the Qaddafi men did to me.” She displayed a broad bruise on her face, a large scar on her upper thigh, several narrow and deep scratch marks lower on her leg, and marks that seemed to come from binding around her hands and feet.

She said she had been raped by 15 men. “I was tied up, and they defecated and urinated on me,” she said. “They violated my honor.”

She pleaded for friends she said were still in custody. “They are still there, they are still there,” she said. “As soon as I leave here, they are going to take me to jail.”

  For the members of the foreign news media here at the invitation of the government of Colonel Qaddafi — and largely confined to the Rixos Hotel except for official outings — the episode was a reminder of the brutality of the Libyan government and the presence of its security forces even among the hotel staff. People in hotel uniforms, who just hours before had been serving coffee and clearing plates, grabbed table knives and rushed to physically restrain the woman and to hold back the journalists.

Ms. Obeidy said she was a native of the rebel stronghold of Benghazi who had been stopped by Qaddafi militia on the outskirts of Tripoli. After being held for about two days, she said, she had managed to escape. Wearing a black robe, a veil and slippers, she ran into the Rixos Hotel here, asking specifically to speak to the news service Reuters and The New York Times. “There is no media coverage outside,” she yelled at one point.

“They swore at me and they filmed me. I was alone. There was whiskey. I was tied up,” she told Michael Georgy of Reuters, the only journalist who was able to speak with her briefly. “I am not scared of anything. I will be locked up immediately after this.” She added: “Look at my face. Look at my back.” Her other comments were captured by television cameras.

A wild scuffle began as journalists tried to interview, photograph and protect her. Several journalists were punched, kicked and knocked on the floor by the security forces , working in tandem with people who until then had appeared to be members of the hotel staff. A television camera belonging to CNN was destroyed in the struggle, and security forces seized a device that a Financial Times reporter had used to record her testimony. A plainclothes security officer pulled out a revolver.

. Two members of the hotel staff grabbed table knives to threaten both Ms. Obeidy and the journalists.

“Turn them around, turn them around,” a waiter shouted, trying to block the foreign news media from having access to Ms. Obeidy. A woman on the staff shouted: “Why are you doing this? You are a traitor!” and briefly put a coat over Ms. Obeidy’s head.

There was a prolonged standoff behind the hotel as the security officials apparently restrained themselves because of the presence of so many journalists, but Ms. Obeidy was ultimately forced into a white car and taken away.

“Leave me alone,” she shouted as one man tried to cover her mouth with his hand.

“They are taking me to jail,” she yelled, trying to resist the security guards, according to Reuters. “They are taking me to jail.”

Questioned about her treatment, Khalid Kaim, the deputy foreign minister, promised that she would be treated in accordance with the law. Musa Ibrahim, a government spokesman, said she appeared to be drunk and mentally ill. “Her safety of course is guaranteed,” he said, adding that the authorities were investigating the case, including the possibility that her reports of abuse were “fantasies.”

Charles Clover of The Financial Times, who had put himself in the way of the security forces trying to apprehend her, was put into a van and driven to the border shortly afterward. He said that the night before he had been told to leave because of what Libyan government officials said were inaccuracies in his reports.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/27/world/middleeast/27tripoli.html?_r=1&hp



Offline ribbit

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Re: Libyan Rebels.
« Reply #38 on: March 26, 2011, 04:37:25 PM »
ah feel de usa still using mapquest to plan dey air strikes. or dey run out of de magic bombs dat only kill evil-doers.

Offline ribbit

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Re: Libyan Rebels.
« Reply #39 on: March 27, 2011, 09:48:13 PM »
ah hear dennis kucinich bawling how congress wasn't consulted about de military action in libya. obuma de so-called constitutional law scholar - what a joke. anyway, tomorrow de us plans for libya will be unveiled.

Offline Daft Trini

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Re: Libyan Rebels.
« Reply #40 on: March 27, 2011, 09:50:10 PM »
Affirmative action is a revolving door that can swing right back and hit you in the ass....

Offline ribbit

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Re: Libyan Rebels.
« Reply #41 on: March 28, 2011, 08:47:32 AM »
Affirmative action is a revolving door that can swing right back and hit you in the ass....

:thinking: :-X

ah expecting some talks from a few forumites that bound to take offense.

Offline Daft Trini

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Re: Libyan Rebels.
« Reply #42 on: March 28, 2011, 11:35:42 AM »
Affirmative action is a revolving door that can swing right back and hit you in the ass....

:thinking: :-X

ah expecting some talks from a few forumites that bound to take offense.

Dennis Kucinich made that statement in his 2008 presidential bid in 2007... his argument was that Prez Obummer was a product of affirmative action, because this was his only grounds for him being appointed head of harvard law review. Clinton then picked up on this and argued along the same lines that a community organizer was not someone who you'd call in a crisis at 3 a.m.

I find a little humor in Dennis Kucinich Rap Sheet; second prez he wanted to impeach and recently he sued a sandwich shop on capitol hill for having a olive pit in it.... he break he teeth and said he had a loss of enjoyment of life....
« Last Edit: March 28, 2011, 12:26:51 PM by Daft Trini »

Offline elan

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Re: Libyan Rebels.
« Reply #43 on: March 28, 2011, 12:05:16 PM »
ah hear dennis kucinich bawling how congress wasn't consulted about de military action in libya. obuma de so-called constitutional law scholar - what a joke. anyway, tomorrow de us plans for libya will be unveiled.

You does get yuh sound bites from faux news or what?
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Offline Bakes

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Re: Libyan Rebels.
« Reply #44 on: March 28, 2011, 12:15:24 PM »
ah hear dennis kucinich bawling how congress wasn't consulted about de military action in libya. obuma de so-called constitutional law scholar - what a joke. anyway, tomorrow de us plans for libya will be unveiled.

The Constitutional law question is clearly above your head as well as that of Dennis Kucinich... it is very telling that yuh bite so hard on de li'l piece ah hardtack Daft Trini throw in de water fuh yuh.

Offline Daft Trini

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Re: Libyan Rebels.
« Reply #45 on: March 28, 2011, 12:51:34 PM »
All kicks aside and media talking point politics... de prez acted within the constitution, he can take military action against a foreign body for a fixed period without the approval of the house or senate.

here is where the problem lies... The US provides a substantial percentage of the forces and finances for Nato. Nato's command inherently has in the past had to adhere to US foreign diplomacy. This is not one of these situations! It was Nato and the Arab League protecting their foreign interest in Libya, since Nato command relies on the US as a means of strategic command, then it is obvious we had to lead because we have all the provisions to conduct such operations.

The problem that Congress should be asking is "why was this done during the break?" may be to avoid tea-party obstruction...??? Could be... then this would be smart on Obama's behalf...! (my opinion)

Why have we not intervened in other countries with similar situations....?

Since no appropriations bills have been passes in respect to defense... how are we going to pay for it... Do we expand the pentagon's budget for this year or do we cut...!

The prez's biggest advantage is that we are the world's reserve currency, so to pay for these additional debts we could print more money... or sing que sera sera...


I have a front row seat to the speech... will update after (don't ask how or why....)

I am no fan of POTUS BHO... but there comes a point in time we have to let go and face reality... he's prez and both parties have to meet in the middle... cut back on defense spending, adopt some fiscal conservatism, cut out the government overlaps, appropriately fund and tax individuals, give the necessary amount to the social systems and ......


It is silly and irresponsible to say he should be a one term prez, Most Prezzes doh accomplish much economically in their first term.. We had 2 years of Bush, One of BHO and if we have one for the de next that would mean 16 years of economic stagnation... Prez usually accomplish more in a second term because they are more open to bipartisanship.

We cannot always find fault in his actions... there are many things to also consider what makes him tick... On the other hand... he real drop the ball with Hillary Clinton... what a waste...!
« Last Edit: March 28, 2011, 01:25:02 PM by Daft Trini »

Offline Dutty

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Re: Libyan Rebels.
« Reply #46 on: March 28, 2011, 01:12:38 PM »
I have a front row seat to the speech... will update after (don't ask how or why....)

since de camera might ketch yuh,, try and wear yuh 'jack pay de warriors dey money' lapel pin
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Offline Bakes

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Re: Libyan Rebels.
« Reply #47 on: March 28, 2011, 01:33:01 PM »
All kicks aside and media talking point politics... de prez acted within the constitution, he can take military action against a foreign body for a fixed period without the approval of the house or senate.

here is where the problem lies... The US provides a substantial percentage of the forces and finances for Nato. Nato's command inherently has in the past had to adhere to US foreign diplomacy. This is not one of these situations! It was Nato and the Arab League protecting their foreign interest in Libya, since Nato command relies on the US as a means of strategic command, then it is obvious we had to lead because we have all the provisions to conduct such operations.

The problem that Congress should be asking is "why was this done during the break?" may be to avoid tea-party obstruction...??? Could be... then this would be smart on Obama's behalf...! (my opinion)

Why have we not intervened in other countries with similar situations....?

Since no appropriations bills have been passes in respect to defense... how are we going to pay for it... Do we expand the pentagon's budget for this year or do we cut...!

The prez's biggest advantage is that we are the world's reserve currency, so to pay for these additional debts we could print more money... or sing que sera sera...

Actually he can't.  While the President is the Comm. in Chief of the Armed Forces, he can declare war only pursuant to Congressional authorization.  Some of construed this to apply not only to "war" but to any foreign military action.  The issue here lies in the inherent conflict of the President's exclusive right to enter into Treaties and to act in conformity with those treaties.  This is where the US' obligations to the UN come in (this isn't a NATO action).  Pursuant to his treaty powers, the President can authorize limited military action in compliance with said treaties.  This is an issue that is way above Kucinich's grade... not only his pay grade, but his intellectual grade as well.

As for why this was done during the break?  Seems like you yuhself getting tie up.  If yuh say he can act without Congressional authorization, then whether he acts when Congress is in session or when they on break is a moot question, no?  He don't need their authorization (according to you self) so why he waiting on them?  More accurately, is that he is acting withing his authority (Treaty powers) and Congressional approval isn't necessary... so again, it matters not whether Congress is in session or not.

Why we didn't intervene in other countries... such as?  Yemen?  Bahrain?  Because:

1) There were no impending genocidal concerns ("door to door, alley to alley"... "no mercy" etc.) in these countries as there was in Libya.

2) The US is loathe to commit to unilateral military actions (ever since yuh boy Dumbya fack it up fuh everybody).  Here, not only is this a UN action, but it was specifically requested by the League of Arab Nations, making it less likely to generate anti-US hostility on the ground.  So, politically... it's  a much better gamble than the cowboy diplomacy espoused by yuh hero.
« Last Edit: March 28, 2011, 03:59:44 PM by Bakes »

Offline Daft Trini

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Re: Libyan Rebels.
« Reply #48 on: March 28, 2011, 02:15:49 PM »
Actually thanks for explaining this... ah could see why I did not do well in civics class...

I was going by the fact as a prez he was abiding by the treaties that we have with UN and Nato... and to me it was within his authority to do so... since this was not "war" and also since we have de experience in air missions in these regions, we had to lead the way.

Breds I myself would avoid the tea "take back de country" party freshmen... dem does scare me... dey want to go forward but their motions are signaling back...

I support BHO's actions based on the Chad incident with M.G. and the French, whey dey both agreed to pull their troops but instead he camouflaged his and stayed... I doh feel he will go easy...

However if there is ground operations the irony is that we are the best trained to fight in dese conditions...
« Last Edit: March 28, 2011, 02:23:04 PM by Daft Trini »

Offline Deeks

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Re: Libyan Rebels.
« Reply #49 on: March 28, 2011, 03:18:20 PM »
The irony is that if Ghaddafi had move into Bebghanzi and retake you would have heard a different story from all sides. Obama weak. They are only talk and no action. I go back all the way to Jimmy Carter and the Iran hostages. Carter lost the election because of that. The Euros and Asian said US impotent. When Reagan come and start to give them bootoo in they arse was a different story. The US is a bully.

The thing is what are the other countries doing. They full of mouth. But when time for action is uh, ah oh. The situation just rolling like gigantic snow ball. Think about, Syria having demonstarions for a week. You think that could have happen a year ago. The US can't be in every country. Right now BHO has to choose which is strategically important to the US and it allies. Libya is important because it could mess with southern Europe. Well we know about Egypt. Bahrain, because the US 6th fleet is there. That is a delicate balancing act. Yemen. It appears that the strongman might have to leave. The US eh know what they may get in Yemen. And that could have implication in Saudi.

BO could come tonight and present all his objectives and goals of this current campaign. It don't matter much if the people on the ground decide to take bulletts day after day. They will have the final say. Not BHO or the republicans or tea party.

Offline Daft Trini

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Re: Libyan Rebels.
« Reply #50 on: March 28, 2011, 05:00:26 PM »
De Boss just arrived at Ft. McNair.... :beermug:

Offline Brownsugar

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Re: Libyan Rebels.
« Reply #51 on: March 28, 2011, 05:55:56 PM »
De Boss just arrived at Ft. McNair.... :beermug:

Whey in de US dat is??
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Offline Bakes

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Re: Libyan Rebels.
« Reply #52 on: March 28, 2011, 06:18:22 PM »
De Boss just arrived at Ft. McNair.... :beermug:

Whey in de US dat is??

Southwest DC, on the Potomac waterfront.


Daft ah have to correct mihself on something yuh said... NATO is indeed involved (per Obama), they were providing logistic help up until the last couple days when they started assisting in "protecting civilians".  According to Obama, beginning Wednesday, NATO will also have responsibility for protecting citizens and for enforcing the no-fly zone as well.

Overall I thought it was a very good speech, he started by chronicling the situation leading up to us being where we are today.  Specifically he provide historic context by speaking of Kosovo 18 yrs ago.  He sought to contrast today's actions with those in Kosovo (took a year before the world intervened, here it took 31 days). 

He describe the US role as being limited in scope, 'protecting civilians, enforcing no-fly zone'. He emphasized that while he and other global leaders think that Ghaddafi must go, and that they believe Libya would be better off without him, he stress that the goal is not "regime change" by force.  Instead, he insisted that such regime change would be pursued via diplomatic channels.  He then spoke of the transition to NATO/UN forces, with the US providing support as necessary. 

He answered the criticism of some who asked "why Libya and not (   )", and "what next? What will the US do in future where there is government violence against civilians".  His response was that given the imminency of the threat to the protesters, and the degree of risk to them (citing the same threat made by Ghaddafi, to go "door to door, alley to alley" and to show "no mercy"), that it was necessary to intervene "in this country".  He also said that action was necessary given that Libya is situated between Tunisia and Egypt... two countries still trying to recover from recent regime changes, and that inaction in Libya would lead to a refugee crisis in both countries. 

All told he did a great job of clarifying the question of scope and duration and of assuaging fears that this commits the US to either a longterm involvement, or to future action in every similar situation.  He coulda use he hands less and pound de lectern less though... just making sure the (inevitable) nitpickers have something to start with.
« Last Edit: March 28, 2011, 07:07:14 PM by Bakes »

Offline NYtriniwhiteboy..

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Re: Libyan Rebels.
« Reply #53 on: March 28, 2011, 06:55:20 PM »
appreciate the rundown bakes since i missed the actual speech
Back in Trini...

Offline Bakes

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Re: Libyan Rebels.
« Reply #54 on: March 28, 2011, 07:10:13 PM »
appreciate the rundown bakes since i missed the actual speech

 :beermug:


It done reach YouTube...  just under 27 mins in total, so not too bad a watch.



<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/hUXEiwJiKj4" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/hUXEiwJiKj4</a>

Offline Daft Trini

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Re: Libyan Rebels.
« Reply #55 on: March 28, 2011, 09:10:48 PM »
Agreed Bakes...  :beermug:

Brown, I live at Ft. McNair... (wife responsible for that)

If yuh in DC vibes meh up... we have we boat docked nearby, de memorials within walking distance, one of my restaurants right dey. All de museums just blocks away.... nice place to live in... Michelle and her husband live a little distance off and the airport right across de river... we even have Starbucks lol...

I wish TnT would play one of the qualifiers here...


(in all seriousness de Prez ears kicksy oui...)

« Last Edit: March 28, 2011, 09:18:46 PM by Daft Trini »

Offline ribbit

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Re: Libyan Rebels.
« Reply #56 on: March 28, 2011, 09:26:32 PM »
bakes, thanks for posting the clip.  :beermug:

well, this speech indicates he's backed away from his sentiment that "ghaddafi must go" (paraphrase) but for puzzling reasons. he spends the first part of the speech describing the atrocities of ghaddafi's forces then says something to the effect that de usa can't remove him because "the opposition" didn't ask for this. apparently it is enough to be in the "opposition" (i.e. an enemy of ghaddafi) to be vetted as worthy of calling the shots, forming the next libyan government, etc..

thing is gates and the national intel director figure ghaddafi will eventually win the civil war, even with the no-fly zone. so if the "opposition" comes back in a few weeks saying - you know what, take de muddersoandso out, then what? way too much authority is left in the hands of the "opposition". btw: de "opposition" eh organized at all - not even close to the level of egypt, etc..

another noteworthy point is how de prez conveniently conflates "interests" with "values". he lumps them together as if they are one and the same when they are different. in this case, there is no national interest (as gates has stated repeatedly) but there is a value to be defended. and de value that is being defended - roughly that america is not the type of country to stand by in the face of a massacre. *cough* *congo* *cough*. ah have a feeling that definition of massacre gorn change depending on who getting killed and who doing de killing.

anyway, canada get a pips while congress get blank. it seem like de UN is de new instrument of legitimacy. lets see how de funding situation go work out....
« Last Edit: March 28, 2011, 09:30:37 PM by ribbit »

Offline ribbit

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Re: Libyan Rebels.
« Reply #57 on: March 29, 2011, 10:58:19 AM »
this is a situation where de "better late than never" adage does not apply when it comes to de prez going to congress to ask for a declaration of war against ghaddafi.

how long can de charade of uninvolved (read: UN-involved) participant be sustained?

==


Libyan rebels retreating after Gadhafi onslaught


By RYAN LUCAS, Associated Press

RAS LANOUF, Libya – Libyan government tanks and rockets pounded rebel forces into a panicked full retreat Tuesday after an hourslong, back-and-forth battle that highlighted the superior might of Moammar Gadhafi's forces, even hobbled by international airstrikes.

No such strikes were launched during the fighting in Bin Jawwad, where rebels attempting to march on Gadhafi's hometown of Sirte ended up turning around and fleeing east under overcast skies. Some fleeing rebels shouted, "Sarkozy, where are you?" — a reference to French President Nicolas Sarkozy, one of the strongest supporters of international airstrikes.

World leaders in London, meanwhile, debated how far they should go to force an end to Gadhafi's 41-year autocratic rule. U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton said the world must speak with a single voice to ensure that the North African country "belongs not to a dictator, but to its people."

Rockets and tank fire sent Libya's rebels in a panicked scramble away from the front lines. The opposition was able to bring up truck-mounted rocket launchers of their own and return fire, but they went into full retreat after government shelling resumed.

The two sides traded salvos over the hamlet of Bin Jawwad, now pockmarked with shrapnel and small arms fire. Rockets and artillery shells crashed thunderously as plumes of smoke erupted in the town. The steady drum of heavy machine gun fire and the pop of small arms could be heard above the din as people less than a mile (a kilometer) outside the village scaled mounds of dirt to watch the fighting.

"This today is a loss, but hopefully we'll get it back," said Mohammed Bujildein, a 27-year-old from Darna. He was gnawing on a loaf of bread in a pickup truck with a mounted anti-aircraft, waiting to fill up from an abandoned gas tanker truck on the eastern side of Ras Lanouf.

Even in Ras Lanouf, roughly 25 miles (40 kilometers) east of Bin Jawwad, there appeared to be shelling — there were thuds in the distance and black smoke rising from buildings. Some rebels pushed farther east.

"If they keep shelling like this, we'll need airstrikes," Bujildein said. It makes it easier to go to Sirte. If there's air cover, we'll be in Sirte tomorrow evening."

Rebel forces had been on the brink of defeat by government forces before a U.N.-mandated no-fly zone and campaign of strikes by the U.S. and its allies helped them regain lost territory. It is unclear, however, if international support exists to deepen the air campaign and attack Gadhafi's heavy weaponry enough to help the rebels make further advances. Some countries, including Russia, contend the airstrikes already have gone beyond the U.N. mandate of protecting civilians from attacks by Gadhafi.

U.S. Ambassador to the United Nations Susan Rice said Tuesday there are plenty of "non-military means at our disposal" to oust the Libyan leader.

France, which has been at the forefront of the international campaign, struck a more forceful tone.

"We, the French and English, we consider that we must obtain more" than the end of shooting at civilians, Defense Minister Gerard Longuet said on France-Inter radio. He also said Libyan politicians could be targeted since they gave orders to the military.

In London, Clinton, U.N. Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon, the Arab League, the African Union and around 40 foreign ministers began discussing the future of Libya and how to ratchet up pressure on Gadhafi.

Italian Foreign Minister Franco Frattini said several nations planned to put forward a deal that would propose a cease-fire, exile for Gadhafi and a framework for talks between Libya's tribal leaders and opposition figures on the country's future.

In signs of emerging ties between the opposition and the international community, Clinton met with Libyan opposition envoy Mahmoud Jibril in London, and a senior Obama administration official said the U.S. would soon send an envoy to Libya to meet with rebel leaders.

The official said Chris Stevens, former U.S. envoy to Tripoli, will travel to the rebel stronghold of Benghazi in the coming days to establish better ties with groups seeking to oust the longtime Libyan leader. The official, who spoke on condition of anonymity to discuss internal planning, stressed that the move doesn't constitute formal recognition of the opposition.

In an open letter to the international community, meanwhile, Gadhafi called for a halt to the "monstrous assault" on Libya and maintained that that the rebels were supported by the al-Qaida terrorist network.

"What is happening now is providing a cover for al-Qaida through airstrikes and missiles to enable al-Qaida to control North Africa and turn it into a new Afghanistan," he said, accusing the international community of carrying out genocide against the Libyans.

Libyan state news agency JANA quoted a military official as saying that airstrikes of the "crusader imperialist assault" targeted civilian and military targets in Misrata, Tripoli, Zlitan, Mazdah and Watayah.

Prime Minister David Cameron, however, said Britain had received reports that it was Gadhafi who was pounding Misrata, the main rebel holdout in the west, and relentlessly targeting civilians.

"Gadhafi is using snipers to shoot them down and let them bleed to death in the street. He has cut off food, water and electricity to starve them into submission," Cameron said.

Rida al-Montasser, an activist in Misrata, confirmed heavy shelling on two streets in the city, but said rebels remain in control. Three people were killed in Misrata on Monday and several others were wounded.

The rebels remain woefully outgunned by Gadhafi's forces, though they do show some improvements since their seige of Ajdabiya a week ago. They have more ammunition and heavy weapons that they've captured from government forces, and they are showing better efforts at using them. But it is still unclear how they can take the stronghold of Sirte without further aggressive international air support.

The rebel advance reached Nawfaliyah, some 60 miles (100 kilometers) from Sirte, on Monday, but the next day they were driven back to the hamlet of Bin Jawwad, a few dozen miles (kilometers) to the east.

In a scene reminiscent of the rebels' rout last week, panicked volunteers jumped into their pickup trucks and attempted to speed away from the bombardment, kicking up dust clouds and choking the narrow coastal highway in a mad scramble of vehicles.

Sirte is dominated by members of the Libyan leader's Gadhadhfa tribe and was used as a second capital by Gadhafi. Its loss would be a symbolic blow and open the way to the capital, Tripoli.

"This is their last defensive line. They will do everything to protect it," explained rebel fighter Twate Monsuri, 26. "It's not Gadhafi attacking us, he's just defending himself now."

Gadhafi forces continued to besiege Misrata and Libya's third-largest city. Residents reported shelling by government tanks of residential areas, with three people killed.

The U.S. Navy reported that two of its aircraft and a guided missile destroyer attacked a number of Libyan coast guard vessels, rendering them inoperable, in the port of Misrata. It said the Libyan vessels had been "firing indiscriminately" at merchant ships.

One of Libya's top officials, meanwhile, abruptly made a "private visit" to Tunisia late Monday, according to the official news agency there.

Government spokesman Moussa Ibrahim in Tripoli insisted on Tuesday that Foreign Minister Moussa Koussa's visit was not a defection.

Offline Bakes

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Re: Libyan Rebels.
« Reply #58 on: March 29, 2011, 11:03:20 AM »
bakes, thanks for posting the clip.  :beermug:

You're welcome  :beermug:


As for Obama going to Congress... the US will not declare war on Libya, you can write that down.

Offline Daft Trini

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Re: Libyan Rebels.
« Reply #59 on: March 29, 2011, 11:18:23 AM »
Alright Bakes may be you could clear something up

Since the War Powers Clause is so open to interpretation (wording) did the Prez not act within the 60 day jurisdiction. He had to consult (this does not mean approval, but according to the clause approval is not needed) and to inform the House and Senate. Which I thought he did, he contacted the appropriate committee members and both the house and senate ranking members. So since the consultation was made according to the "war powers clause" did he not act within the Constitutional Laws...? So did the Prez act within the hegemony that is part and parcel of the responsibilities of a Commander in Chief...? For instance panama 89...?

What are your thoughts...?


 

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