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Author Topic: Interesting Observation From a Once Loyal T&T U20 Parent,Enjoy!!!!!  (Read 6085 times)

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Offline saga pinto

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Saga Pinto

The last time I shared a comment on TT football was just before the U17 team went to Korea. At that time I think some of your colleagues on the SWF felt that I was writing in defense of my son. Truth be told, I was in part. However my comments were also an attempt to share a perspective which at the time I don't think the majority grasped. Maybe after the perceived failure of current U17 and U20 teams, it will now make more sense to you.

I have read with great amusement the comments made on the forum after the U20 team's 5 nil  loss to Mexico. Some forumites are blaming the coach, others blame the players, some say it is Jack's fault (poor Jack) others think its the lack of a development system. Ready for this? The answers is (d) None of the above. The real culprits for this big let down are the fans, particularly those on this forum and their foolish expectations. Hear me out before you stone me.

The problem with you folks is that you harbor unrealistic expectations. “We going Brazil” Really?

Your unrealistic expectations are based on what I consider to be 3 fluke occurrences:

1 Senior team qualification for Germany( fluke).
2. U17 Qualification or Korea (fluke)
3. U20 Qualification for Egypt (also a fluke).

Fluke occurrences are no basis for building a sustainable business model. In each of the above cases we qualified for the WC on the last goal in the last game.  I am not a knowledgeable soccer fan so I may get names and times mixed up, but I seem to remember  Dennis Lawrence (of all people) scoring a once-in-a-lifetime header to get us to Germany in the last do or die game, (how many headers has he scored in his career?). Young Molino scored  one goal in the last do or die game against Jamaica to get us to South Korea and if I remember correctly, Sean De Silva scored one goal to get us to Egypt. Imagine scoring one single goal in a 3 or 4 game tournament and qualifying for the U20 world cup. Teams that  have the right to be disappointed by a 5-0 result at that level, are those who have earned the right to be there by consistent performance. T&T lost all 3 games in Korea conceding 15 goals and scoring 1. We lost in Germany (conceding 5?) and drew one in Egypt (conceding 5?) for a total tally of about 25 against and 2 for. When the US embarrassed us last time with a 3 nil cut ass, men on the  forum wanted to die. Did you really expect a different result? The problem is that fans have deluded themselves into thinking that these flukes are a norm, so when we collect 5 from a world class team like Mexico, everybody upset.
 
This delusion exists at many levels, not just with the fans. Some of the coaches themselves are infected with the madness. When we were in South Korea for the U17 tournament, I had a brief chat with Anton Corneal at the players hotel the day before the first game against Ghana. I asked him how the boy were feeling and if he had worked out the approach to the game. He said that the approach was all out attack and we were going to run the Ghanians into the ground. He predicted a TT win by 3 clear goals. Now I am no football coach, but that sounded like sheer madness to me. All out attack Anton? You must be mad. I told him that I heard that Ghana selected the final 20 players by lining up their best 40 and releasing the lions. Anton didn't find that funny at all. I said to a friend of mine later, “Chris, we getting 5.” So said so done. T&T persisted with this “attack with full force” lunacy throughout the tournament as if our opponents were the underdogs instead of us. Talk about delusional.

Now, I don't mind if the fans and coaches delude themselves. Fans and coaches really don't really have much to lose. The TTFF is hell-bent on hiring expensive coaches thinking that it will make a difference and since they have money to burn, every coach will  promise them all sorts of miracles and take their money.

I am most concerned that the madness of unrealistic expectations has also infected the players, their parents and handlers. Every little boy who gets called to a TT youth team begins to dream of being the next Dwight or Russel or Shaka. Parents who see their son dribble through the unskilled competition at the trial stages,  pretty soon begin to believe that crap. What the players and parents don't realizes that York, Latapy and Hislop, in a T&T context, were also flukes. These 3 happened to possess the innate talent that none of our current youth players have. The problem is that some people, including  certain idiotic local coaches, make these young players and parents  believe that it could happen to them too. They don't realize that, apart from the dynamic trio, the other TT players who are currently playing overseas football for real money, (Kenwene, Carlos, Stern etc) are by international standards, mediocre at best and could drop out of reckoning any day. Yet all these parents think that their son is special and that they will make it big like Dwight.

Experience does not support this expectation. We had the same bunch of players make it to 2 youth world cups, U17 and U20. Many of the parents who went to Korea were genuinely expecting that their sons would be discovered by foreign scouts and plucked from obscurity like Dwight was. How many of them have been so lucky? None. If you go back to my email to you before the U17 world cup, I picked just one player to make it big, Daniel Cyrus. I still have a hope for him, that is, if his genius agent Mr Look Loy doesn't screw it up for him. The other players with youth world cup experience who have banked their futures on pro football, are, with the exception of Primus, “earning their living” in that poor excuse for a pro league in T&T, waiting for some fairy god-father to take them away to Europe or the MLS. They don't realize that the reason they cant break in to the big times is that they just don't have the talent. Every one of them (except Cyrus) who has been to overseas trials and has returned empty handed. Incidentally, where is Jamal Gay now?

I want to thank Touches and Jah Goal for opening my eyes to the harsh realities of being a soccer parent. Their comments on my son's skill level years ago, caused me to re-evaluate what I was led to believe by certain supposedly well informed persons. After a careful review of specific criteria, I concluded that the chances that my son (or any of the other U17 players) had of “going pro” (outside of the TT Pro league) were remote at best. This certainly was not the lotto that I wanted to gamble his future on. I began to focus him on using his soccer talent as a ticket to get a free education. So far, he is not doing too badly with a 3.7 GPA and is currently preparing for the LSAT to enter Law school. My role has changed from being his football manager to his academic manager and it is my job to make sure that he stays focused. I hope that Leston Paul, Sean De Silva, Stephen Knox, Qian Grosvner, Uriah Bentick and the other few who are on scholarships in the US, understand that the real value of their soccer talent is to get free education and not play the ass in school, as most young men tend to.

It may appear that I am presenting an unfairly pessimistic and negative view of our talent pool, so I am providing you with a free acid test to assess potential pro prospects. Here it is...Jake Thompson. Jake requires no work permit to play in the UK and is a product the UK development system. He is also yards ahead ability-wise of any of our local U23 players and yet he is one of many fighting hard to earn his place in the real world of pro soccer. My advice is that unless your “next Dwight” son can match Jake for ability and has a European passport or Green Card, then make sure he knows how to read, write and spell well enough to maintain a 2.0 GPA and meet NCAA standards.

Finally Saga Pinto, I have a prediction for forumites who still believe that T&T belongs at the world stage.  Sorry to bust your bubble, but it will be another 20 years at least before T&T qualifies for another world cup at any level. My advice is to stock up on Prozac. Until then, I want to encourage you to continue contributing to the forum. It has been a source of much comic relief for me.
« Last Edit: April 05, 2011, 07:30:57 PM by Flex »

Offline fari

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Re: Interesting Observation From a Once Loyal T&T U20 Parent,Enjoy!!!!!
« Reply #1 on: April 05, 2011, 07:33:33 PM »
wow

Offline saga pinto

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Re: Interesting Observation From a Once Loyal T&T U20 Parent,Enjoy!!!!!
« Reply #2 on: April 05, 2011, 07:38:38 PM »
wow

fari this revelation could'nt have come at a better time in my opinion.....

Offline sub1

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Re: Interesting Observation From a Once Loyal T&T U20 Parent,Enjoy!!!!!
« Reply #3 on: April 05, 2011, 07:49:49 PM »
Saga Pinto

The last time I shared a comment on TT football was just before the U17 team went to Korea. At that time I think some of your colleagues on the SWF felt that I was writing in defense of my son. Truth be told, I was in part. However my comments were also an attempt to share a perspective which at the time I don't think the majority grasped. Maybe after the perceived failure of current U17 and U20 teams, it will now make more sense to you.

I have read with great amusement the comments made on the forum after the U20 team's 5 nil  loss to Mexico. Some forumites are blaming the coach, others blame the players, some say it is Jack's fault (poor Jack) others think its the lack of a development system. Ready for this? The answers is (d) None of the above. The real culprits for this big let down are the fans, particularly those on this forum and their foolish expectations. Hear me out before you stone me.

The problem with you folks is that you harbor unrealistic expectations. “We going Brazil” Really?

Your unrealistic expectations are based on what I consider to be 3 fluke occurrences:

1 Senior team qualification for Germany( fluke).
2. U17 Qualification or Korea (fluke)
3. U20 Qualification for Egypt (also a fluke).

Fluke occurrences are no basis for building a sustainable business model. In each of the above cases we qualified for the WC on the last goal in the last game.  I am not a knowledgeable soccer fan so I may get names and times mixed up, but I seem to remember  Dennis Lawrence (of all people) scoring a once-in-a-lifetime header to get us to Germany in the last do or die game, (how many headers has he scored in his career?). Young Molino scored  one goal in the last do or die game against Jamaica to get us to South Korea and if I remember correctly, Sean De Silva scored one goal to get us to Egypt. Imagine scoring one single goal in a 3 or 4 game tournament and qualifying for the U20 world cup. Teams that  have the right to be disappointed by a 5-0 result at that level, are those who have earned the right to be there by consistent performance. T&T lost all 3 games in Korea conceding 15 goals and scoring 1. We lost in Germany (conceding 5?) and drew one in Egypt (conceding 5?) for a total tally of about 25 against and 2 for. When the US embarrassed us last time with a 3 nil cut ass, men on the  forum wanted to die. Did you really expect a different result? The problem is that fans have deluded themselves into thinking that these flukes are a norm, so when we collect 5 from a world class team like Mexico, everybody upset.
 
This delusion exists at many levels, not just with the fans. Some of the coaches themselves are infected with the madness. When we were in South Korea for the U17 tournament, I had a brief chat with Anton Corneal at the players hotel the day before the first game against Ghana. I asked him how the boy were feeling and if he had worked out the approach to the game. He said that the approach was all out attack and we were going to run the Ghanians into the ground. He predicted a TT win by 3 clear goals. Now I am no football coach, but that sounded like sheer madness to me. All out attack Anton? You must be mad. I told him that I heard that Ghana selected the final 20 players by lining up their best 40 and releasing the lions. Anton didn't find that funny at all. I said to a friend of mine later, “Chris, we getting 5.” So said so done. T&T persisted with this “attack with full force” lunacy throughout the tournament as if our opponents were the underdogs instead of us. Talk about delusional.

Now, I don't mind if the fans and coaches delude themselves. Fans and coaches really don't really have much to lose. The TTFF is hell-bent on hiring expensive coaches thinking that it will make a difference and since they have money to burn, every coach will  promise them all sorts of miracles and take their money.

I am most concerned that the madness of unrealistic expectations has also infected the players, their parents and handlers. Every little boy who gets called to a TT youth team begins to dream of being the next Dwight or Russel or Shaka. Parents who see their son dribble through the unskilled competition at the trial stages,  pretty soon begin to believe that crap. What the players and parents don't realizes that York, Latapy and Hislop, in a T&T context, were also flukes. These 3 happened to possess the innate talent that none of our current youth players have. The problem is that some people, including  certain idiotic local coaches, make these young players and parents  believe that it could happen to them too. They don't realize that, apart from the dynamic trio, the other TT players who are currently playing overseas football for real money, (Kenwene, Carlos, Stern etc) are by international standards, mediocre at best and could drop out of reckoning any day. Yet all these parents think that their son is special and that they will make it big like Dwight.

Experience does not support this expectation. We had the same bunch of players make it to 2 youth world cups, U17 and U20. Many of the parents who went to Korea were genuinely expecting that their sons would be discovered by foreign scouts and plucked from obscurity like Dwight was. How many of them have been so lucky? None. If you go back to my email to you before the U17 world cup, I picked just one player to make it big, Daniel Cyrus. I still have a hope for him, that is, if his genius agent Mr Look Loy doesn't screw it up for him. The other players with youth world cup experience who have banked their futures on pro football, are, with the exception of Primus, “earning their living” in that poor excuse for a pro league in T&T, waiting for some fairy god-father to take them away to Europe or the MLS. They don't realize that the reason they cant break in to the big times is that they just don't have the talent. Every one of them (except Cyrus) who has been to overseas trials and has returned empty handed. Incidentally, where is Jamal Gay now?

I want to thank Touches and Jah Goal for opening my eyes to the harsh realities of being a soccer parent. Their comments on my son's skill level years ago, caused me to re-evaluate what I was led to believe by certain supposedly well informed persons. After a careful review of specific criteria, I concluded that the chances that my son (or any of the other U17 players) had of “going pro” (outside of the TT Pro league) were remote at best. This certainly was not the lotto that I wanted to gamble his future on. I began to focus him on using his soccer talent as a ticket to get a free education. So far, he is not doing too badly with a 3.7 GPA and is currently preparing for the LSAT to enter Law school. My role has changed from being his football manager to his academic manager and it is my job to make sure that he stays focused. I hope that Leston Paul, Sean De Silva, Stephen Knox, Qian Grosvner, Uriah Bentick and the other few who are on scholarships in the US, understand that the real value of their soccer talent is to get free education and not play the ass in school, as most young men tend to.

It may appear that I am presenting an unfairly pessimistic and negative view of our talent pool, so I am providing you with a free acid test to assess potential pro prospects. Here it is...Jake Thompson. Jake requires no work permit to play in the UK and is a product the UK development system. He is also yards ahead ability-wise of any of our local U23 players and yet he is one of many fighting hard to earn his place in the real world of pro soccer. My advice is that unless your “next Dwight” son can match Jake for ability and has a European passport or Green Card, then make sure he knows how to read, write and spell well enough to maintain a 2.0 GPA and meet NCAA standards.

Finally Saga Pinto, I have a prediction for forumites who still believe that T&T belongs at the world stage.  Sorry to bust your bubble, but it will be another 20 years at least before T&T qualifies for another world cup at any level. My advice is to stock up on Prozac. Until then, I want to encourage you to continue contributing to the forum. It has been a source of much comic relief for me.

What a bunch cya crock.  Maybe your son's future was always in academics and could not make out of the age grouping.  "Poor Jack"?...typical.
« Last Edit: April 05, 2011, 07:51:42 PM by sub1 »

Offline saga pinto

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Re: Interesting Observation From a Once Loyal T&T U20 Parent,Enjoy!!!!!
« Reply #4 on: April 05, 2011, 08:05:15 PM »
Saga Pinto

The last time I shared a comment on TT football was just before the U17 team went to Korea. At that time I think some of your colleagues on the SWF felt that I was writing in defense of my son. Truth be told, I was in part. However my comments were also an attempt to share a perspective which at the time I don't think the majority grasped. Maybe after the perceived failure of current U17 and U20 teams, it will now make more sense to you.

I have read with great amusement the comments made on the forum after the U20 team's 5 nil  loss to Mexico. Some forumites are blaming the coach, others blame the players, some say it is Jack's fault (poor Jack) others think its the lack of a development system. Ready for this? The answers is (d) None of the above. The real culprits for this big let down are the fans, particularly those on this forum and their foolish expectations. Hear me out before you stone me.

The problem with you folks is that you harbor unrealistic expectations. “We going Brazil” Really?

Your unrealistic expectations are based on what I consider to be 3 fluke occurrences:

1 Senior team qualification for Germany( fluke).
2. U17 Qualification or Korea (fluke)
3. U20 Qualification for Egypt (also a fluke).

Fluke occurrences are no basis for building a sustainable business model. In each of the above cases we qualified for the WC on the last goal in the last game.  I am not a knowledgeable soccer fan so I may get names and times mixed up, but I seem to remember  Dennis Lawrence (of all people) scoring a once-in-a-lifetime header to get us to Germany in the last do or die game, (how many headers has he scored in his career?). Young Molino scored  one goal in the last do or die game against Jamaica to get us to South Korea and if I remember correctly, Sean De Silva scored one goal to get us to Egypt. Imagine scoring one single goal in a 3 or 4 game tournament and qualifying for the U20 world cup. Teams that  have the right to be disappointed by a 5-0 result at that level, are those who have earned the right to be there by consistent performance. T&T lost all 3 games in Korea conceding 15 goals and scoring 1. We lost in Germany (conceding 5?) and drew one in Egypt (conceding 5?) for a total tally of about 25 against and 2 for. When the US embarrassed us last time with a 3 nil cut ass, men on the  forum wanted to die. Did you really expect a different result? The problem is that fans have deluded themselves into thinking that these flukes are a norm, so when we collect 5 from a world class team like Mexico, everybody upset.
 
This delusion exists at many levels, not just with the fans. Some of the coaches themselves are infected with the madness. When we were in South Korea for the U17 tournament, I had a brief chat with Anton Corneal at the players hotel the day before the first game against Ghana. I asked him how the boy were feeling and if he had worked out the approach to the game. He said that the approach was all out attack and we were going to run the Ghanians into the ground. He predicted a TT win by 3 clear goals. Now I am no football coach, but that sounded like sheer madness to me. All out attack Anton? You must be mad. I told him that I heard that Ghana selected the final 20 players by lining up their best 40 and releasing the lions. Anton didn't find that funny at all. I said to a friend of mine later, “Chris, we getting 5.” So said so done. T&T persisted with this “attack with full force” lunacy throughout the tournament as if our opponents were the underdogs instead of us. Talk about delusional.

Now, I don't mind if the fans and coaches delude themselves. Fans and coaches really don't really have much to lose. The TTFF is hell-bent on hiring expensive coaches thinking that it will make a difference and since they have money to burn, every coach will  promise them all sorts of miracles and take their money.

I am most concerned that the madness of unrealistic expectations has also infected the players, their parents and handlers. Every little boy who gets called to a TT youth team begins to dream of being the next Dwight or Russel or Shaka. Parents who see their son dribble through the unskilled competition at the trial stages,  pretty soon begin to believe that crap. What the players and parents don't realizes that York, Latapy and Hislop, in a T&T context, were also flukes. These 3 happened to possess the innate talent that none of our current youth players have. The problem is that some people, including  certain idiotic local coaches, make these young players and parents  believe that it could happen to them too. They don't realize that, apart from the dynamic trio, the other TT players who are currently playing overseas football for real money, (Kenwene, Carlos, Stern etc) are by international standards, mediocre at best and could drop out of reckoning any day. Yet all these parents think that their son is special and that they will make it big like Dwight.

Experience does not support this expectation. We had the same bunch of players make it to 2 youth world cups, U17 and U20. Many of the parents who went to Korea were genuinely expecting that their sons would be discovered by foreign scouts and plucked from obscurity like Dwight was. How many of them have been so lucky? None. If you go back to my email to you before the U17 world cup, I picked just one player to make it big, Daniel Cyrus. I still have a hope for him, that is, if his genius agent Mr Look Loy doesn't screw it up for him. The other players with youth world cup experience who have banked their futures on pro football, are, with the exception of Primus, “earning their living” in that poor excuse for a pro league in T&T, waiting for some fairy god-father to take them away to Europe or the MLS. They don't realize that the reason they cant break in to the big times is that they just don't have the talent. Every one of them (except Cyrus) who has been to overseas trials and has returned empty handed. Incidentally, where is Jamal Gay now?

I want to thank Touches and Jah Goal for opening my eyes to the harsh realities of being a soccer parent. Their comments on my son's skill level years ago, caused me to re-evaluate what I was led to believe by certain supposedly well informed persons. After a careful review of specific criteria, I concluded that the chances that my son (or any of the other U17 players) had of “going pro” (outside of the TT Pro league) were remote at best. This certainly was not the lotto that I wanted to gamble his future on. I began to focus him on using his soccer talent as a ticket to get a free education. So far, he is not doing too badly with a 3.7 GPA and is currently preparing for the LSAT to enter Law school. My role has changed from being his football manager to his academic manager and it is my job to make sure that he stays focused. I hope that Leston Paul, Sean De Silva, Stephen Knox, Qian Grosvner, Uriah Bentick and the other few who are on scholarships in the US, understand that the real value of their soccer talent is to get free education and not play the ass in school, as most young men tend to.

It may appear that I am presenting an unfairly pessimistic and negative view of our talent pool, so I am providing you with a free acid test to assess potential pro prospects. Here it is...Jake Thompson. Jake requires no work permit to play in the UK and is a product the UK development system. He is also yards ahead ability-wise of any of our local U23 players and yet he is one of many fighting hard to earn his place in the real world of pro soccer. My advice is that unless your “next Dwight” son can match Jake for ability and has a European passport or Green Card, then make sure he knows how to read, write and spell well enough to maintain a 2.0 GPA and meet NCAA standards.

Finally Saga Pinto, I have a prediction for forumites who still believe that T&T belongs at the world stage.  Sorry to bust your bubble, but it will be another 20 years at least before T&T qualifies for another world cup at any level. My advice is to stock up on Prozac. Until then, I want to encourage you to continue contributing to the forum. It has been a source of much comic relief for me.

What a bunch cya crock.  Maybe your son's future was always in academics and could not make out of the age grouping.  "Poor Jack"?...typical.

He did say to me the nay sayers go come out in droves.....

Offline Sam

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Re: Interesting Observation From a Once Loyal T&T U20 Parent,Enjoy!!!!!
« Reply #5 on: April 05, 2011, 08:09:27 PM »
Education is important yes, but nothing wrong in wanting to go Pro instead of trying for a Scholarship, but you cant have two minds, you just have to go out there and WORK HARD !!!!!!!!!!!!!!, you can always go to school, but as a Pro football career, they will not wait for you.

The problem in T&T is the players mentality, all of them wants to be the next Yorke and get a big pay check and none of them willing to work even 15% of what Yorke did to accomplish his dream, they dont have the discipline, (Highley, Winchester, Belgrave, Peltier, Keon, Neaves, Forbes, Jamal Gay, Jamal Clarence,,, etc)..... what about Britto, he signing for a foreign club years now....

If these players just focus on being a great player instead of trying to be the next Yorke or Latapy they will do better, the came here to play, just play the ball to your best and everything else will fall into place, Tom is Tom not Dick or Harry, make a name for yourself.... dont wish to be a next man....

Another thing is, when players go on camp/tour they need to stay off the phone unless its an emergency or a parent calling, stay of the internet and have a curfew for all of them, Army style. The internet and TV killing the generation and T&T like a follow fashion country just sucking everything up.

If the coach soft then dont expect de players to be any better. By de way, ent is de same under 17 who went Korea when to Egypt to... how that could be a fluke...

And I have said it in the past, we need better agents in T&T, someone who will look out for our players, who have they best interest for them and not another Mike Berry, who have good connections but will rip them off in a heart beat, look at Keith Look Loy, gone Tobago sign they best player, and now he own de rights for Daneil Cyrus, now Cyrus getting a chance to go aboard and Look Loy studying a big transfer fee so his team go join de Pro League next season.... every man for themselves, It took a while to wake up Keon Daniel, lets hope Look Loy dont end up like de greedy dog and his bone and Cyrus end up playing for T&TEC.

Sometime ah does wonder what kind of parents these players have....

And please remember, a disease (Anton Corneal) is incharge of our ENTIRE youth program in T&T, so you get what you pay for.

Ask any T&T player who will WILLINGLY give up a fete to go and play football.... I know a T&T player right now (I cant call name) who will play for Anonymous FC for a pair of CK Jeans, a bottle of cologn, a pair of nike sneakers and a Blackberry.

PS: Still no excuse for the poor display from our current under 20 team and the last under 17 team, the players are weak (mentally and physically) and they are not guided/coached properly, forget the loss, is the way they play and their body language that kills me, no HEART !!!!!.... they have to take blame, every other Caribbean country goes through the same problem we go through, some even worst and when you see Guadeloupe, Haiti, Suriname, Jamaica and Cuba play, all you see is heart, even if they loose.....
« Last Edit: April 05, 2011, 08:23:28 PM by Flex »
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Offline Ngozi

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Re: Interesting Observation From a Once Loyal T&T U20 Parent,Enjoy!!!!!
« Reply #6 on: April 05, 2011, 08:15:41 PM »
Whats the word I'm looking for ..... BULLSHIT!


The same team qualify that from u-17 was the same team that qualified at the u20 level similarly the same u17 that didn't make became the same u20 that didnt make it again. Both occurences were not fluke but a culmination of the ability of the teams to produce when it mattered. Whether that ability is determined by the talent, coaching or administration...... the team simply wasn't good enough to do it.

The qualification for the 2006 world cup was a fluke ?  lol I don't think I really need to comment on that.

Saga .... gonna say a few things now .... under the assumption that the well written piece by that prick was a) not you and b) not a woman because meh mom raise meh better than that.

First of all you condescending asshole .... not really sure I appreciate your overall degradation of the people who does post on here ... we def aint perfect but one way or the other we are family like it or not.

Secondly the prick .... and understand I'm only calling you that because allegedly you didn't have the balls to post on here under your name and accept the understandable criticism that may come your way..... needs to be man enough to not let someone post on his behalf.

I'm really not gonna go any further because its obvious this fool is disappointed in the results like the rest of us
and chooses to address his situation in a hostile manner .... not really healthy but don't come on here and try to diss people and bring down spirits and such.
People like you are not needed, opinions not needed, what is the benefit of it?
What are you bringing to this conversation?

Offline elan

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Re: Interesting Observation From a Once Loyal T&T U20 Parent,Enjoy!!!!!
« Reply #7 on: April 05, 2011, 08:17:08 PM »
So true, the fans are to be blamed for the administration not having a plan and using players, for the coaches inability to get the best out of the players and not being competent enough to impliment proper team tactics, for players not being good enough or showing a true level of professionalism, or for giving that extra effort when needed.

We the fans are to be blame for having any level of expectation from people and players who recieve great<>good compensation to play and manage the game they "love". These fans need to get their game together, so that our players can get contracts with big clubs overseas.
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Offline Tallman

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Re: Interesting Observation From a Once Loyal T&T U20 Parent,Enjoy!!!!!
« Reply #8 on: April 05, 2011, 08:22:46 PM »
wow

fari this revelation could'nt have come at a better time in my opinion.....

I don't view this as any sort of revelation. As a matter of fact I find it to very incoherent and full of mixed messages.

Unrealistic expectations based on the last 5 years of T&T football? The years we consider to be the doldrums? Wheel and come again.
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Offline saga pinto

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Re: Interesting Observation From a Once Loyal T&T U20 Parent,Enjoy!!!!!
« Reply #9 on: April 05, 2011, 08:48:55 PM »
It is true that I'm being used for his own agenda,he's not a member on this site but a family friend and I made the decision to post on here. The reality is not everybody go act or say things that will have your blessings for some it may make sense for others pure nonsense. Allyuh better hope for the sake of T&T football and some on this site come qualifying time that this guy had it all wrong and ends up looking like a Madman when we qualify for Brazil.

The truth is I have my doubts about some of the things said but it's not me or him go be losing sleep over this...   

Offline FF

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Re: Interesting Observation From a Once Loyal T&T U20 Parent,Enjoy!!!!!
« Reply #10 on: April 05, 2011, 09:12:17 PM »
THE BEATINGS WILL CONTINUE UNTIL MORALE IMPROVES

Offline elan

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Re: Interesting Observation From a Once Loyal T&T U20 Parent,Enjoy!!!!!
« Reply #11 on: April 05, 2011, 09:35:07 PM »
It is true that I'm being used for his own agenda,he's not a member on this site but a family friend and I made the decision to post on here. The reality is not everybody go act or say things that will have your blessings for some it may make sense for others pure nonsense. Allyuh better hope for the sake of T&T football and some on this site come qualifying time that this guy had it all wrong and ends up looking like a Madman when we qualify for Brazil.

The truth is I have my doubts about some of the things said but it's not me or him go be losing sleep over this...   

But daiz the thing self, who arguing on here that we going to Brazil? Is the people he exonerate who make the bold claim that we going Brazil.
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Re: Interesting Observation From a Once Loyal T&T U20 Parent,Enjoy!!!!!
« Reply #12 on: April 05, 2011, 09:58:07 PM »
Saga Pinto

The last time I shared a comment on TT football was just before the U17 team went to Korea. At that time I think some of your colleagues on the SWF felt that I was writing in defense of my son. Truth be told, I was in part. However my comments were also an attempt to share a perspective which at the time I don't think the majority grasped. Maybe after the perceived failure of current U17 and U20 teams, it will now make more sense to you.

I have read with great amusement the comments made on the forum after the U20 team's 5 nil  loss to Mexico. Some forumites are blaming the coach, others blame the players, some say it is Jack's fault (poor Jack) others think its the lack of a development system. Ready for this? The answers is (d) None of the above. The real culprits for this big let down are the fans, particularly those on this forum and their foolish expectations. Hear me out before you stone me.

The problem with you folks is that you harbor unrealistic expectations. “We going Brazil” Really?

Your unrealistic expectations are based on what I consider to be 3 fluke occurrences:

1 Senior team qualification for Germany( fluke).
2. U17 Qualification or Korea (fluke)
3. U20 Qualification for Egypt (also a fluke).

Fluke occurrences are no basis for building a sustainable business model. In each of the above cases we qualified for the WC on the last goal in the last game.  I am not a knowledgeable soccer fan so I may get names and times mixed up, but I seem to remember  Dennis Lawrence (of all people) scoring a once-in-a-lifetime header to get us to Germany in the last do or die game, (how many headers has he scored in his career?). Young Molino scored  one goal in the last do or die game against Jamaica to get us to South Korea and if I remember correctly, Sean De Silva scored one goal to get us to Egypt. Imagine scoring one single goal in a 3 or 4 game tournament and qualifying for the U20 world cup. Teams that  have the right to be disappointed by a 5-0 result at that level, are those who have earned the right to be there by consistent performance. T&T lost all 3 games in Korea conceding 15 goals and scoring 1. We lost in Germany (conceding 5?) and drew one in Egypt (conceding 5?) for a total tally of about 25 against and 2 for. When the US embarrassed us last time with a 3 nil cut ass, men on the  forum wanted to die. Did you really expect a different result? The problem is that fans have deluded themselves into thinking that these flukes are a norm, so when we collect 5 from a world class team like Mexico, everybody upset.
 
This delusion exists at many levels, not just with the fans. Some of the coaches themselves are infected with the madness. When we were in South Korea for the U17 tournament, I had a brief chat with Anton Corneal at the players hotel the day before the first game against Ghana. I asked him how the boy were feeling and if he had worked out the approach to the game. He said that the approach was all out attack and we were going to run the Ghanians into the ground. He predicted a TT win by 3 clear goals. Now I am no football coach, but that sounded like sheer madness to me. All out attack Anton? You must be mad. I told him that I heard that Ghana selected the final 20 players by lining up their best 40 and releasing the lions. Anton didn't find that funny at all. I said to a friend of mine later, “Chris, we getting 5.” So said so done. T&T persisted with this “attack with full force” lunacy throughout the tournament as if our opponents were the underdogs instead of us. Talk about delusional.

Now, I don't mind if the fans and coaches delude themselves. Fans and coaches really don't really have much to lose. The TTFF is hell-bent on hiring expensive coaches thinking that it will make a difference and since they have money to burn, every coach will  promise them all sorts of miracles and take their money.

I am most concerned that the madness of unrealistic expectations has also infected the players, their parents and handlers. Every little boy who gets called to a TT youth team begins to dream of being the next Dwight or Russel or Shaka. Parents who see their son dribble through the unskilled competition at the trial stages,  pretty soon begin to believe that crap. What the players and parents don't realizes that York, Latapy and Hislop, in a T&T context, were also flukes. These 3 happened to possess the innate talent that none of our current youth players have. The problem is that some people, including  certain idiotic local coaches, make these young players and parents  believe that it could happen to them too. They don't realize that, apart from the dynamic trio, the other TT players who are currently playing overseas football for real money, (Kenwene, Carlos, Stern etc) are by international standards, mediocre at best and could drop out of reckoning any day. Yet all these parents think that their son is special and that they will make it big like Dwight.

Experience does not support this expectation. We had the same bunch of players make it to 2 youth world cups, U17 and U20. Many of the parents who went to Korea were genuinely expecting that their sons would be discovered by foreign scouts and plucked from obscurity like Dwight was. How many of them have been so lucky? None. If you go back to my email to you before the U17 world cup, I picked just one player to make it big, Daniel Cyrus. I still have a hope for him, that is, if his genius agent Mr Look Loy doesn't screw it up for him. The other players with youth world cup experience who have banked their futures on pro football, are, with the exception of Primus, “earning their living” in that poor excuse for a pro league in T&T, waiting for some fairy god-father to take them away to Europe or the MLS. They don't realize that the reason they cant break in to the big times is that they just don't have the talent. Every one of them (except Cyrus) who has been to overseas trials and has returned empty handed. Incidentally, where is Jamal Gay now?

I want to thank Touches and Jah Goal for opening my eyes to the harsh realities of being a soccer parent. Their comments on my son's skill level years ago, caused me to re-evaluate what I was led to believe by certain supposedly well informed persons. After a careful review of specific criteria, I concluded that the chances that my son (or any of the other U17 players) had of “going pro” (outside of the TT Pro league) were remote at best. This certainly was not the lotto that I wanted to gamble his future on. I began to focus him on using his soccer talent as a ticket to get a free education. So far, he is not doing too badly with a 3.7 GPA and is currently preparing for the LSAT to enter Law school. My role has changed from being his football manager to his academic manager and it is my job to make sure that he stays focused. I hope that Leston Paul, Sean De Silva, Stephen Knox, Qian Grosvner, Uriah Bentick and the other few who are on scholarships in the US, understand that the real value of their soccer talent is to get free education and not play the ass in school, as most young men tend to.

It may appear that I am presenting an unfairly pessimistic and negative view of our talent pool, so I am providing you with a free acid test to assess potential pro prospects. Here it is...Jake Thompson. Jake requires no work permit to play in the UK and is a product the UK development system. He is also yards ahead ability-wise of any of our local U23 players and yet he is one of many fighting hard to earn his place in the real world of pro soccer. My advice is that unless your “next Dwight” son can match Jake for ability and has a European passport or Green Card, then make sure he knows how to read, write and spell well enough to maintain a 2.0 GPA and meet NCAA standards.

Finally Saga Pinto, I have a prediction for forumites who still believe that T&T belongs at the world stage.  Sorry to bust your bubble, but it will be another 20 years at least before T&T qualifies for another world cup at any level. My advice is to stock up on Prozac. Until then, I want to encourage you to continue contributing to the forum. It has been a source of much comic relief for me.

Long article with too many conflicting messages but what I want to ask is who here besides Controversial (who everyone accepts is somewhat deluded) is seriously arguing that T&T will qualify for Brazil 2014!

Brownsugar has coined the sarcastic slogan "Brazil 2014 here we come" based upon what Jack & Anil will have us believe but everyone here with a brain knows she’s being sarcastic with that slogan!

This person needs to spend a little more time on this forum, reading, posting and debating and maybe they might learn something rather than jumping to rash and inaccurate conclusions.
« Last Edit: April 05, 2011, 10:00:06 PM by Socapro »
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Re: Interesting Observation From a Once Loyal T&T U20 Parent,Enjoy!!!!!
« Reply #13 on: April 05, 2011, 11:00:01 PM »
T&T!... We want ah goal!...
I wanted to bring a different style to the team, to play the Trinbagonian way. Everald "Gally" Cummings

Offline Trini

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Re: Interesting Observation From a Once Loyal T&T U20 Parent,Enjoy!!!!!
« Reply #14 on: April 05, 2011, 11:10:29 PM »
Interesting read.

The writer has a point, but I believe its more like we just going through a patch now where we not producing standout players like we did 15 years ago. Even with players like Jerren Nixon, Leonson Lewis, Yorke, Dwarika, Evans Wise, Latas , et al, we struggled to break the CONCACAF top 3.
Now with so called lesser players, we will obviously struggle a bit more. Heck  I remember even during the 90's we would get routinely destroyed by the likes of Costa Rica, canada, Mex, USA at youth level. no big difference now. Its actually quite flattering to us that we even compete so closely with these same countries at senior level. can you imagine how ashamed these countries feel when they blow us out at youth level and then we competitive at seniors?

I for one have asked myself the question of how good we really are as a footballing nation.
Take the patriotism away, and I think we are a country that will always aspire to qualify for a senior WC.
For us, that is the mark of success. Just like Brazil aspires to win it, or the US aspires to the semi-final, our level is just getting there. And that won't change until we get a next golden generation of footballers like what we haven't seen since the turn of the milennium.

We will always be chasing USA, Mexico and Costa Rica. We need to hope that Costa Rica has a bad year and we can seriously compete for an automatic 3rd spot. I make no qualms in saying that these 3 countries are a class above us and own us, even when we at our best. We have never beaten any of them away, and only when we on full form, we BARELY beat them at home.
The rest of the pack in CONCACAF we can compete with if we at the top of our game - Honduras, Jamaica et al, they also tend to be inconsistent like us.
But we will not be qualifying for a WC with games to spare. At  least not in the near future. Its just not our level. And thats ok, its just like T&T will never compete with USA at basketball....or Jamaica in Track and Field.

Very often we get blinded and think we are blessed with some of the greatest athletes in the world. We are indeed, but not to the extent that most believe.
Our players routinely look unfit, at all levels. How could that be world class? Look at how Barcelona play football, you think we could ever run off the ball like that?
Look at how teams like Mexico and USA and Costa Rica possess the ball and play with patience. You honestly believe Trinidad can play against a top CONCACAF team who sits back and invites us into their half? We dont have a clue how to play. All we know if counter attack, run up full speed and try to ketch the team chasing. When last T&T score from a set piece? When last we play a game and 20 players were parked in the opposition half and we look good moving the ball around?? When last you see our defense string 4 passes in the back and include the keeper and have opposing strikers looking silly chasing the ball?

Its not only the players who falling short. Us fans too.
Once we lose a couple games, we struggle to get 10,000 ppl in the stadium. I went to a school in the US, where even if the football team was having a losing season, you always guaranteed 100,000 fans in the stadium to support. We boo them when they play shit, and cheer when they win, but the main thin is that we always there to support them to try to get better.
In CONCACAF, of the 6-8 top nations, we have by far the worse fan following and football culture. To these other nations, football means so much more. Why then is it fair that we try to qualify ahead of them just based on this.
Players are fan who also play for your country/club. So the same mentality the fans have, the players have as well. And that manifests itself in the intensity of play on the field. Compare Kenwyne Jones playing for T&T to Javier Hernandez or Salcido playing for Mexico. These are bigger stars than KJ in the premiership and they play their hearts out and come back for all their country national games.

Why should we want or think we deserve to qualify ahead of these nations? There are some fans on this website, if the general T&T population has this mindset, we will be an awesome footballing nation.

Football in T&T is important, but not priority. We have more interest in the Champions League than CONCACAF.
I could never understand for the life of me how the average person will go to a sports bar and watch a champions league game but not even know T&T has a game in the stadium.

But all of this can be reversed with a crop of gifted players and/or a very good development programme in place and a world class coach at the helm.

Offline Bakes

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Re: Interesting Observation From a Once Loyal T&T U20 Parent,Enjoy!!!!!
« Reply #15 on: April 05, 2011, 11:57:50 PM »
He did say to me the nay sayers go come out in droves.....

He shoulda be man enough to come on here and post he bullshit fuh heself instead ah sending message thru you... ent he say he post before de U-17 went Korea?  What stop him from posting now?

Quote
The problem with you folks is that you harbor unrealistic expectations. “We going Brazil” Really?

THIS is what he basing his grand thesis on... to say that SWO fans have unrealistic expectations?  Clearly this fool failed to see the sarcasm in the reference.  Clearly he fails to see the flaws in his own argument... if all of our failings can be attributed to unreasonable expectations then it stands to reason that once us fans tone down the expectations: Jack will stop stifling football in TnT, players will be treated as equal partners by the Federation, money will cease to be a problem, international teams will want to play us again, our players will develop the ability to pass, kick and trap a ball... and we'll really be ready for Brazil 2014.  

Who knew it was that easy?  ::)

Offline tempo

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Re: Interesting Observation From a Once Loyal T&T U20 Parent,Enjoy!!!!!
« Reply #16 on: April 06, 2011, 05:58:21 AM »
The best medicine is always the most bitter. Saga Pinto, that was the post of the year. I could only imagine seeing the future of T&T football administration (Look Loy, Skeene, and Corneal) laughing and carrying on as they are congratulating each other on the fantastic job they have done to preserve their place of influence by selecting a coach that could barely stand and will certainly be dependent on their services.

I would include an additional point to Saga Pinto's; but one that I feel is directly responsible for the condition of football in this country; the lack of true leadership. First, one has to understand that true leadership is making well thought out decisions that are for the benefit of the entity you are charged to preserve and protect even if it is professionally or even personally detrimental to the leader. True leadership is NOT displayed by one who has the biggest mouth and "speaks out" on behalf of x,y,z. That is a rabble rouser or at best an activist. Leadership takes a lot more than having a desire to bask in the glow of attention with the shouts of "you tell 'em!" serving as fuel for your ego.

For far too long, football leaders have made decisions based upon how it will impact and advance their own personal agenda. The thing about sport and politics is that we see our leaders' decisions on full display everyday and unfortunately they usually fail this litmus test. As a result, you have an societal breakdown where the public has fully embraced the idea that the ends justifies the means and acquisition of knowledge is something to be guarded not shared. In the end folks, humility, vision, and wisdom are the shared characteristics of a true leader. How many people in our football or our politics possess those traits?


Offline injunchile

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Re: Interesting Observation From a Once Loyal T&T U20 Parent,Enjoy!!!!!
« Reply #17 on: April 06, 2011, 06:04:00 AM »
Interesting observation- Well as a parent I also had expectations  that my son would make the T&T team and If he did  , well  the next step get a pro contract overseas especially when one of my nephews played for Arsenal at 16. Maybe I thought  it was some where in the genes or that the Gods would smile on me.
 Every black boy playing basketball in a park wanted to be like MIKE. So what is wrong that everyone who puts on a pair of boots wants to be the next Yorke. It is called motivation / Ambition/ Dream- Sadly what we dont tell our youngsters is that The only place success comes before work is in the dictionary. Sacrifices have to be made. I remember Lara"s father speaking to me about the early morning training and how he had to get up early to take him to Harvard and how many tears were shed when his mother taught that he was too hard on him. The cream will always rise to the top but one has to put in the sweat- blood and tears.

Offline dwn

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Re: Interesting Observation From a Once Loyal T&T U20 Parent,Enjoy!!!!!
« Reply #18 on: April 06, 2011, 06:58:06 AM »
Like the original post, I suspect that many fans and coaches have unrealistic expectations. I believe it comes from a lack of exposure to the international game. A lot of people just don't know how our players compare to players from developed football nations. And for a lot of people, their understanding of the world game comes from what they see on tv, and anyone here who has been to a top level game live will tell you that the experience and perspective you get from seeing the game close up is a lot different to the one you get from watching it on tv. You don't get a true sense of the speed, intensity, and movement unless you're there.

So in that sense, the poster has a point in that these unrealistic expectations and lack of perspective are leading us to believe that we are better than we are - and that belief leads to a degree of complacency that stifles the development of our football. He's right when he says we're fooling ourselves when we think many of youth players are good enough to secure pro contracts at "top" clubs. And maybe the reality is that many parents think their children can be the next dwight yorke when they have little evidence to think this. Additionally, although i don't think FLUKE is the right word, i think given our investment in football producing dwight yorkes and russel latapys are in fact HIGHLY IMPROBABLE.

that said, to say that the expectations of FANS are to blame for our lack of success is RIDICULOUS. if he said that THOSE WHO ARE AT THE HELM/THOSE RESPONSIBLE FOR THE DEVELOPMENT of our national football have unrealistic expectations of what it takes to succeed, then i would tend to agree that this could in fact be the case. 
« Last Edit: April 06, 2011, 07:01:49 AM by dwn »

Offline banton

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Re: Interesting Observation From a Once Loyal T&T U20 Parent,Enjoy!!!!!
« Reply #19 on: April 06, 2011, 07:06:08 AM »
the number one reason fans have these expectations when we watch the development of other teams in the world and where they were in the 90 and were we were we suppose to be in the top 4 in concacaf. 
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Offline Socapro

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Re: Interesting Observation From a Once Loyal T&T U20 Parent,Enjoy!!!!!
« Reply #20 on: April 06, 2011, 07:46:14 AM »
the number one reason fans have these expectations when we watch the development of other teams in the world and where they were in the 90 and were we were we suppose to be in the top 4 in concacaf. 

I think some of you guys are confusing disgust & disappointment by many here about the little that the TTFF has done to move our football forward over the years with unrealistic expectations for our teams!

In the end we really can’t expect much better for when one fails to prepare then one must be prepared to fail!

I would have hoped some of you were more intelligent and able to tell the difference between being disgusted and disappointed and alternatively having unrealistic expectations but yet again it’s another disappointment! ::)
« Last Edit: April 06, 2011, 09:57:04 AM by Socapro »
De higher a monkey climbs is de less his ass is on de line, if he works for FIFA that is! ;-)

Offline 1st touch

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Re: Interesting Observation From a Once Loyal T&T U20 Parent,Enjoy!!!!!
« Reply #21 on: April 06, 2011, 07:59:06 AM »
Well that stir up an ants nest... ::)

I will take it as someone's point of view, that has been influenced by their personal disappointments and grasping for a positive elsewhere, hence the supposedly silver lining being "education" and condemnation of everything else

The fact is that if what you're saying is not without some percentage of truth, but having about 5% truth dont make it the whole truth and factual or realistic.

You seem to not really understand that for youths and seasoned players to make it in developed leagues, they are competing with tremendous obstacles which is not always football...we talking about various prejudice, politics, economics and basic loyalties...T&T produces very good talent (mostly raw), but that does not matter if all they have is skill, because they need to have someone with importance to champion their cause and get them a real opportunity that makes sense on all the above requirements...many have nothing else but talent, so from a professional perspective, it is better for them (the club) to take a calculated risk on a local with talent (not necessarily better) from their own country.

What we really need is for those who blazed the trail in any capacity, to now assist those following by getting them involved and that is being done by some...Those who have built up a network to varying degrees, went through the process and had some success, they know what is needed...so mentor, prepare and open the doors where possible. And we cant look at a 100% success rate, because for everyone that gets into the system, many others will fail, but must continue trying.

With regards to the teams...I see it as 2 issues

1) We simply faced better teams...the U-17 losing to Canada in the do or die game is abject failure?...come on Canada was one of the top teams and only lost in the finals, so it was simply bad luck having to face them at this point.
Same thing goes for the U-20...Mexico will be a major player at this age group

2) The coaching and administration...Its the coaches who pick the team and devise the strategy. I guarantee you the best team was never picked for any of the tournaments, but that's another discussion...Were they given proper preparation or exposure that is needed?...we all know that answer
So until we get this area right, we putting money on unqualified and out of dept leaders of our teams and programs

Will T&T be in any World Cup over the next 20 yrs?...well I would like to believe with a little luck, we have a good a chance as anyone else


"Always a T&T Warriors FAN"
« Last Edit: April 06, 2011, 08:04:38 AM by 1st touch »
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Offline Star Child

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Re: Interesting Observation From a Once Loyal T&T U20 Parent,Enjoy!!!!!
« Reply #22 on: April 06, 2011, 08:14:43 AM »
Now they blaming the fans...

Whats next.

We team cant even lose 3-0 to qualify.

Offline davidephraim

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Re: Interesting Observation From a Once Loyal T&T U20 Parent,Enjoy!!!!!
« Reply #23 on: April 06, 2011, 08:14:55 AM »
Interesting observation- Well as a parent I also had expectations  that my son would make the T&T team and If he did  , well  the next step get a pro contract overseas especially when one of my nephews played for Arsenal at 16. Maybe I thought  it was some where in the genes or that the Gods would smile on me.
 Every black boy playing basketball in a park wanted to be like MIKE. So what is wrong that everyone who puts on a pair of boots wants to be the next Yorke. It is called motivation / Ambition/ Dream- Sadly what we dont tell our youngsters is that The only place success comes before work is in the dictionary. Sacrifices have to be made. I remember Lara"s father speaking to me about the early morning training and how he had to get up early to take him to Harvard and how many tears were shed when his mother taught that he was too hard on him. The cream will always rise to the top but one has to put in the sweat- blood and tears.

Like Injunchile, I would like to stress on the work before glory factor. I think that we tend to look at what Yorke achieved versus what he had to endure or to sacrifice as it was described. There is a reason that Yorke and Latas and Nixon were at the top of their game consistently (at least for the time that they were) It is a direct result of the hard work they put in. Think back to Yorke's ManU days. The hardest runner, skill de ball de most, Fittest man on de field. Latas would be in dat Savanah in Barataria long after training done. He own personal training use to start at dat time. Nixon was a horse no need to comment. We have to teach these young players the pathway to success which only comes with hard work and plenty sacrifice. Then and only then can we expect to see repeated successes in our football programs and competitions. No we cant play like Barca not because Keon Daniel cya flick up de ball and cap at will but after he does he probably cya do it again for another 12 minutes until he ketch he breath. We not fit at the international level and I mean mentally as well. We dont concentrate constantly. We're prone to lapses in concentration and this is where the break down comes in. Ball watching is a lapse in concentration.  It is a loss in focus of the goal which in that instant is to stay with your man doh matter what de ball doing. My 3 cents. We are a mile away and it is because of distinct reasons. There is however nothing wrong in wanting to be like Mike/yorke. You must aspire upwards and adjust your reality as it takes hold.
Warren N. Boucaud

Offline fitzinho

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Re: Interesting Observation From a Once Loyal T&T U20 Parent,Enjoy!!!!!
« Reply #24 on: April 06, 2011, 08:27:54 AM »
I may have read it wrong/ differently to everyone else, but my take...similar to DWN is that we as fans DO have an unrealistic expectation of our team's current ability. However I think the original poster was referring to the disappointment experienced by the fans when he said that the fans are to blame. I could be wrong, again, but I think what he meant to say is that by inflating our expectations, we are responsible for our own disappointment.

Offline davidephraim

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Re: Interesting Observation From a Once Loyal T&T U20 Parent,Enjoy!!!!!
« Reply #25 on: April 06, 2011, 08:39:35 AM »
I may have read it wrong/ differently to everyone else, but my take...similar to DWN is that we as fans DO have an unrealistic expectation of our team's current ability. However I think the original poster was referring to the disappointment experienced by the fans when he said that the fans are to blame. I could be wrong, again, but I think what he meant to say is that by inflating our expectations, we are responsible for our own disappointment.

I think because the writer was venting he/she may have been all over the place. That place you just described as well. But they went further than the fans expectation for sure, they went as far to try to rationalize why TnT wont make another WC for 20 years!
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Re: Interesting Observation From a Once Loyal T&T U20 Parent,Enjoy!!!!!
« Reply #26 on: April 06, 2011, 08:45:40 AM »
The man/woman has a point.

But at the same time yuh have to dream...you have to have some kinda hope and belief...else yuh done lorse already.

I think the under 17's and the under 20's just did not make it count when it mattered.

To make it to a World Cup you have to be at a certain std. Yes we know we not there yet but our opponents not there either.

The Under 17's were supposed to beat JA at least and the under 20's were supposed to beat Cuba.

It is performing when it matters counts in this game.

Finally this WC thing is doable...we coulda more than qualify for SA. Looking back at the matches we shot ourselves in the foot right tru. We don't have to be 1st...let USA and Mexico fight up for that...but we could come 3rd outright.

Same way for Brazil...if Pfister realise is not about giving men a bligh, giving they partner son scouting opportunity and making jokey sub and formation. We could pick a group of players based on merit, ability and more importantly form and be able to draw or get a result against everybody in Concacaf except USA and Mexico away.

Same thing the original writer said...Jake Thompson, bring him back let him sweat...bring back Jlloyd, bring back Birchall let all the patterson, roberts, boucaud, shakes etc all of them come back and do a thing because they are better than what the PFL producing.

When we realise the national team is not a fete match side and training side. That only the best supposed to be there...only then we will win ting.

Funny the 2002 WC side...was the best ever bomb squad TT ever had and the powers that be royally mess up that campaign. The 2006 qualifying team was a dregs side from that Bomb Squad.

We could make Brazil...it difficult but it can be done. have hope and faith...you will be surprised what can be done.


A for apple, B for Bat, C for yuhself!

Offline MEP

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Re: Interesting Observation From a Once Loyal T&T U20 Parent,Enjoy!!!!!
« Reply #27 on: April 06, 2011, 09:36:38 AM »
I have read with great amusement the comments made on the forum after the U20 team's 5 nil  loss to Mexico. Some forumites are blaming the coach, others blame the players, some say it is Jack's fault (poor Jack) others think its the lack of a development system. Ready for this? The answers is (d) None of the above. The real culprits for this big let down are the fans, particularly those on this forum and their foolish expectations. Hear me out before you stone me.

The problem with you folks is that you harbor unrealistic expectations. “We going Brazil” Really?


What then is the true role of the fan? If not, but to dream.
] Why poor Jack? He rules with an iron fist and all decisions go through him


Your unrealistic expectations are based on what I consider to be 3 fluke occurrences:

1 Senior team qualification for Germany( fluke).
2. U17 Qualification or Korea (fluke)
3. U20 Qualification for Egypt (also a fluke).

HUH? what factual evidence can you provide to say that this was a fluke? And by factual evidence I mean an account of how we played against the other teams
.


Fluke occurrences are no basis for building a sustainable business model.

How then is the fan responsible for creating a model? You’re contradicting yourself.

 I am not a knowledgeable soccer fan (damn skippy).
 
This delusion exists at many levels, not just with the fans. Some of the coaches themselves are infected with the madness. When we were in South Korea for the U17 tournament, I had a brief chat with Anton Corneal at the players hotel the day before the first game against Ghana. I asked him how the boy were feeling and if he had worked out the approach to the game. He said that the approach was all out attack and we were going to run the Ghanians into the ground. He predicted a TT win by 3 clear goals. Now I am no football coach, but that sounded like sheer madness to me. All out attack Anton? You must be mad. I told him that I heard that Ghana selected the final 20 players by lining up their best 40 and releasing the lions. Anton didn't find that funny at all. I said to a friend of mine later, “Chris, we getting 5.” So said so done. T&T persisted with this “attack with full force” lunacy throughout the tournament as if our opponents were the underdogs instead of us. Talk about delusional.

So obviously the issue here is with the coach and the strategy and tactics he applied to that game. So am I the fan to be blamed for this too?

Now, I don't mind if the fans and coaches delude themselves. Fans and coaches really don't really have much to lose. The TTFF is hell-bent on hiring expensive coaches thinking that it will make a difference and since they have money to burn, every coach will  promise them all sorts of miracles and take their money.

So again based on you thesis that solely the fan is to be blamed you are now saying that the TTFF has to bear some brunt of the burden.


What is wrong for a kid to dream big and why is it wrong for parents to think that their child is special?




With all due respect sir/madam, you’re talking ass, having been on this site for a few years I’ve found most posters with the exception of one or two to be well informed and knowledgeable about the game. Yes, as fans and nationals we want T&T to go far. That is our right as fans the ability to dream big. Do you think Shaktar Donatsk fans are contented with just playing Barcelona and don’t see themselves as winning the Champions League? A fan does not support a team to go half-way and thus the expectation is always to the top. I, like most fans on this site, am not unrealistic about the quality of players our national teams possess.
However to blame the fan is highly irresponsible for the fans are not the ones who nurture and develop players. The responsibility rests squarely on the shoulders of the TTFF. They must provide competent and capable coaches who can hone players technical development.
So your vitriol is quite misguided for I as a trini will support my team win, lose or draw but that does not mean I support the TTFF and their incompetent coaches.
« Last Edit: April 06, 2011, 09:57:41 AM by MEP »

Offline FF

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Re: Interesting Observation From a Once Loyal T&T U20 Parent,Enjoy!!!!!
« Reply #28 on: April 06, 2011, 09:37:47 AM »

Funny the 2002 WC side...was the best ever bomb squad TT ever had and the powers that be royally mess up that campaign. The 2006 qualifying team was a dregs side from that Bomb Squad.



ha ha...  :rotfl:

but thais serious ting eh... everybody here had write off 2006 and den Beenie come...

look at de difference one good coach make... imagine if everything else fall in place.

Federation, development, players, planning etc
THE BEATINGS WILL CONTINUE UNTIL MORALE IMPROVES

Offline maxg

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Re: Interesting Observation From a Once Loyal T&T U20 Parent,Enjoy!!!!!
« Reply #29 on: April 06, 2011, 09:38:53 AM »
Reality is ah bitch, Yes. However, had he and his son not have that dream, would he have been good enuff to achieve the heights necessary to attain this free education that is now the only important focus.. Good Luck to the young man in his studies, sounds like he's doing great, however, given todays job market, if he graduates and is only offered, say book keeping work, those that make him a disappointment, or those that continue/persue education and dreaming of a big time job a waste of time. Does that mean maybe he and his peers should of stuck with football. Does it mean the people who are doing these jobs are doing so, because they were not good at academics ?  As others stated, to many mixed messages, and to personal to be considered the norm. I still proud of every young man who puts on the TT colours and step on that field, inspite of the odds. Or should they just say no thanks, we go get we ars cut,  we all prefer to get scholarships based on our academics...lawd...best this individual did keep they mouth shut, and simply have been proud of their sons/daughters achievements and just continue to support their future endeavours...Life doh dun when they graduate from ah free or paid education, more challenges come their way, as it did with you


add: Once Loyal ? sounds like a loyalty of convience
« Last Edit: April 06, 2011, 02:23:54 PM by maxg »

 

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