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Author Topic: Concerned supporter says Warner's position is untenable.  (Read 3376 times)

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Offline FireBrand

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Concerned supporter says Warner's position is untenable.
« on: May 17, 2011, 08:19:24 PM »
Concerned supporter says Warner's position is untenable.
Soca Warriors Online Editorial.


An avid supporter of Trinidad & Tobago football has issued a statement calling for an investigation into the conduct of the country's football federation (TTFF), and its special adviser, CFU president, FIFA vice-president  Mr. Jack Warner.

The supporter who chose to remain anonymous feels that Warner's position within the global and local football hierarchy was untenable after it appears he and his co-defendants in a court case brought by 13 T&T national footballers concerning unpaid bonuses following the 2006 World Cup, acted in contempt of a court ruling.

In February 2011, high court justice Devindra Rampersad had ordered TTFF to make an interim payment of US$1.1 million no later than the 16th of May, 2011. However, yesterday, the defendant’s lawyers sent a cheque to the player’s lawyer for TT$2 million, less than a third of the sum ordered by the judge.

The interim payment was awarded because the judge found the TTFF's submitted accounts to be "unaccountable" and expressed concern over what he labeled as the inadequate and "cloudy" way in which the TTFF's accounting books were presented to the courts.

Furthermore, there was no accounting for $1 million Swiss Franc in which the judge could not "understand as to why it is not accounted for". Now the TTFF has been ordered to resubmit full and complete accounts by May 31st.

The supporter who is also a SocaWarriors.net/Warrior Nation member said, "Mr Warner holds many titles including FIFA Vice President, President of CONCACAF, President of the Caribbean Football Union, Minister of Works & Transport and, at times, acting Prime Minister of Trinidad & Tobago. Anybody who holds these titles should be transparent and law abiding.

Mr Warner, even if only by association with the TTFF, is in contempt of an order made in the T&T high court. This is not acceptable. The law applies to all citizens and Mr Warner cannot choose to ignore a court order without at least explaining his situation.

He has known about the date of compliance for over a month, but has chosen to disrespect the people of T&T by not even bothering to acknowledge his non compliance."

The spokesman went on to say that this is not the first time Warner has put himself beyond the rules. "We saw before that Mr Warner got fined US$1 million by FIFA for his involvement in a World Cup ticketing scandal in 2006.

To my knowledge, he only paid US$250,000 of that fine. Any other FIFA member found guilty of financial wrongdoing would have been removed from FIFA, yet Warner is still a vice president there.

This despite being removed from TTFA (now TTFF) following the infamous overselling of match tickets for the T&T vs USA World Cup qualifier in 1989. We can no longer just stand and watch as Warner continues to ignore laws, ignore fines and ignore the best interests of football in order to reach his personal goals."

The supporter explained that over the 5 year history of this court case, its members, though being skeptical of Warner's intentions, had never publicly issued a call for his removal.

"But over the last 5 years we have seen Warner become more powerful and involved in more controversies while our national and local football has been allowed to deteriorate through negligence, poor administration and mismanagement of funds. We feel like the child in the story, "The Emperor's New Clothes".

The supporter continued, “We can see the need for a full public enquiry, but it appears that many T&T citizens, M.P.s and even the Prime Minister are dazzled by Jack's ability to distract attention away from his affairs.

Enough is enough. We are calling on Prime Minister Kamla Persad-Bissessar and Minister of Sport, Anil Roberts to suspend Mr Warner pending a full investigation of his involvement in this court case and the non compliance with the court order. People may say that Warner cannot be blamed as he is an employee of TTFF, but it’s not that simple.

Warner made the original deal with the players and then submitted an inaccurate set of accounts with key items of income missing. Mr Warner has on many occasions spoken publicly about representing the TTFF.

TTFF President, Oliver Camps has also stated publicly that Warner personally funds national teams. He is inextricably connected to the TTFF and it is commonly believed that he is in charge, despite his title of Special Adviser.

All we are requesting is adherence to the People's Partnership election promise of transparency and integrity.”

The players locked in this court battle include; Shaka Hislop, Kelvin Jack, Atiba Charles, Cyd Gray, Ian Cox, Brent Sancho, Aurtis Whitley, Collin Samuel, Evans Wise, Anthony Wolfe, Cornell Glen, Kenwyne Jones and Stern John.


Disclaimer
The views expressed by this supporter does not necessarily reflect the views of the SocaWarriors.net/Warrior Nation.
« Last Edit: May 18, 2011, 05:13:52 AM by Flex »
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Offline weary1969

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Re: Concerned supporter says Warner's position is untenable.
« Reply #1 on: May 17, 2011, 08:24:10 PM »
  :beermug:
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Offline Bakes

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Re: Concerned supporter says Warner's position is untenable.
« Reply #2 on: May 17, 2011, 08:24:34 PM »
Poor article... full of emotion and lacking substance.  We're all tired of Jack, but the fact is he's not guilty of any contempt.  He was issued no order by the court, the TTFF was.  Having not been issued an order, he didn't defy any orders... therefore not in contempt.  If "we" are to be taken seriously we have to have our facts in order before we start leveling accusations.  If not then this smacks of being a hatchet job.

I see no need for this to be released under the "Soca Warriors Online Media".  Furthermore, who is this "concerned supporter" and why should we care?  If he is that concerned then let him reveal himself, or better yet, send his "opinion" because that is all this is, to one of the Editors.  I understand the sentiments, and agree with them in general... but put simply this rises no higher than the usual forum rant.  Why is SWO publishing this as an editorial?

Offline Sando

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Re: Concerned supporter says Warner's position is untenable.
« Reply #3 on: May 17, 2011, 08:50:24 PM »
Don't be so negative Bakes, its still more than any T&T Newspaper reports.

Offline Coach

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Re: Concerned supporter says Warner's position is untenable.
« Reply #4 on: May 17, 2011, 08:55:00 PM »
ONLY IN TT!

Offline dreamer

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Re: Concerned supporter says Warner's position is untenable.
« Reply #5 on: May 17, 2011, 09:04:56 PM »
Consider the article as being intentionally vetted right here, as I believe constructive ideas and criticismis are being sought, otherwise it would not be threaded on this blog. I agree with Sando to "go easy" with criticism. Also understand the need to be as deadly accurate as possible with these letters as the law is very unforgiving of overreaching or miscalculation. Additionally, Jackula Scamps have their backs against the wall and would welcome any chance of a tactical error from the opposition to pounce and turn the tide. Be careful warriors and supporters but still be brave at the same time.
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Offline MEP

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Re: Concerned supporter says Warner's position is untenable.
« Reply #6 on: May 17, 2011, 09:15:33 PM »
Does the article tell us more than we already know? It comes off as being more accusatory .....yes we all know that Jack is a scamp or do we? We certainly think he is and in our hearts we know so but jurisprudence operates differently. Sad to say but unless we can prove it legally so far he hasn't done anything wrong.

Offline Bakes

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Re: Concerned supporter says Warner's position is untenable.
« Reply #7 on: May 17, 2011, 09:40:45 PM »
Consider the article as being intentionally vetted right here, as I believe constructive ideas and criticismis are being sought, otherwise it would not be threaded on this blog. I agree with Sando to "go easy" with criticism. Also understand the need to be as deadly accurate as possible with these letters as the law is very unforgiving of overreaching or miscalculation. Additionally, Jackula Scamps have their backs against the wall and would welcome any chance of a tactical error from the opposition to pounce and turn the tide. Be careful warriors and supporters but still be brave at the same time.

Everything raised in this letter was already hashed out HERE... or so I thought.  Now, of course my word isn't gospel... but if people are going to make accusations, then at least have some basis for your position.  Come with some legitimate argument in support of the accusation that Jack has shown contempt for the court... don't just repeat them.  Now I'm not saying that it's the same person making the accusation... I'm saying it's kinda irresponsible of whomever published it under the SWO tag to put it out there and put a weak disclaimer about the opinion not reflecting the views of SWO/WN.  How does it not if it's put out by the official media arm of the website... and if it's the opinion of an anonymous member? 

Since when is SWO in the business of publishing anonymous opinion pieces?  Highly irresponsible if you ask me and makes it seem as though the admins are allowing the site to be used as a platform for scurrilous attacks against Jack.  All we're doing is giving them ammunition to continue looking at this site in an adversarial light.

Offline Big Magician

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Re: Concerned supporter says Warner's position is untenable.
« Reply #8 on: May 17, 2011, 10:50:49 PM »
Substance ???..substance ??..allyuh want "more" substance ???...man give me a fu#king break.....
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Offline diamondtrim

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Re: Concerned supporter says Warner's position is untenable.
« Reply #9 on: May 18, 2011, 04:14:05 AM »
Poor article... full of emotion and lacking substance.  We're all tired of Jack, but the fact is he's not guilty of any contempt.  He was issued no order by the court, the TTFF was.  Having not been issued an order, he didn't defy any orders... therefore not in contempt.  If "we" are to be taken seriously we have to have our facts in order before we start leveling accusations.  If not then this smacks of being a hatchet job.

I see no need for this to be released under the "Soca Warriors Online Media".  Furthermore, who is this "concerned supporter" and why should we care?  If he is that concerned then let him reveal himself, or better yet, send his "opinion" because that is all this is, to one of the Editors.  I understand the sentiments, and agree with them in general... but put simply this rises no higher than the usual forum rant.  Why is SWO publishing this as an editorial?

 :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause:

Offline Big Magician

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Re: Concerned supporter says Warner's position is untenable.
« Reply #10 on: May 18, 2011, 10:51:29 AM »
dey teef de fu#ing money and blacklist we fu#king players ..and people still asking for SUBSTANCE...well done Firebrand
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Offline Bakes

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Re: Concerned supporter says Warner's position is untenable.
« Reply #11 on: May 18, 2011, 11:02:02 AM »
dey teef de fu#ing money and blacklist we fu#king players ..and people still asking for SUBSTANCE...well done Firebrand

Leh we try and maintain focus here... what does ^^ that have to do with the allegations in the article above that Jack has shown contempt for the court's ruling?

Offline Coop's

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Re: Concerned supporter says Warner's position is untenable.
« Reply #12 on: May 18, 2011, 11:51:43 AM »
Bakes i know if i said what you said on this post i would ah get cuss already,i guess i really don't choose my words correct,i am no lawyer but is the first time anyone has taken their time and explain why Warner is always ahead of the pack,while we all know the guy may be is corrupt,can't talk etc etc he sure eh no stupid man and that's why it's very hard to remove/replace him.
What's being discussed here have been discussed on here on many occasions,every poster brings this up under a different heading from time to time,Bakes right!!!! while i think Tallman,Flex etc etc doing a good job there are those who are bent on bringing down what ever little credibility this website have.     

Offline Bakes

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Re: Concerned supporter says Warner's position is untenable.
« Reply #13 on: May 18, 2011, 12:40:51 PM »
Bakes i know if i said what you said on this post i would ah get cuss already,i guess i really don't choose my words correct,i am no lawyer but is the first time anyone has taken their time and explain why Warner is always ahead of the pack,while we all know the guy may be is corrupt,can't talk etc etc he sure eh no stupid man and that's why it's very hard to remove/replace him.
What's being discussed here have been discussed on here on many occasions,every poster brings this up under a different heading from time to time,Bakes right!!!! while i think Tallman,Flex etc etc doing a good job there are those who are bent on bringing down what ever little credibility this website have.     

...and this is the only reason why I raise any objection.  There has been a movement afoot, primarily by Flex, to present this website as a legitimate source of football news, as well as to present the forum itself as being officially neutral when it comes to disputes involving the TTFF.  I think something like this serves only to undermine not only the aspirations to an acceptable journalistic standard, but to undermine the very neutrality being attempted by the site Admins.
« Last Edit: May 18, 2011, 12:43:21 PM by Bakes »

Offline Socapro

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Re: Concerned supporter says Warner's position is untenable.
« Reply #14 on: May 18, 2011, 12:53:12 PM »
Bakes i know if i said what you said on this post i would ah get cuss already,i guess i really don't choose my words correct,i am no lawyer but is the first time anyone has taken their time and explain why Warner is always ahead of the pack,while we all know the guy may be is corrupt,can't talk etc etc he sure eh no stupid man and that's why it's very hard to remove/replace him.
What's being discussed here have been discussed on here on many occasions,every poster brings this up under a different heading from time to time,Bakes right!!!! while i think Tallman,Flex etc etc doing a good job there are those who are bent on bringing down what ever little credibility this website have.     

...and this is the only reason why I raise any objection.  There has been a movement afoot, primarily by Flex, to present this website as a legitimate source of football news, as well as to present the forum itself as being officially neutral when it comes to disputes involving the TTFF.  I think something like this serves only to undermine not only the aspirations to an acceptable journalistic standard, but to undermine the very neutrality being attempted by the site Admins.

It’s been ordered by the courts for the TTFF to make a particular interim payment by this Monday 16th May just gone and to produce proper accounts for the 2006 World Cup by the end of this month and the TTFF is already in contempt of court on the first count!
What is there to be neutral about in this matter!?

I’m really looking forward to the end of this month to see/hear what accounts the TTFF produces!
« Last Edit: May 18, 2011, 12:58:17 PM by Socapro »
De higher a monkey climbs is de less his ass is on de line, if he works for FIFA that is! ;-)

Offline Bakes

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Re: Concerned supporter says Warner's position is untenable.
« Reply #15 on: May 18, 2011, 01:18:37 PM »
It’s been ordered by the courts for the TTFF to make a particular interim payment by this Monday 16th May just gone and to produce proper accounts for the 2006 World Cup by the end of this month and the TTFF is already in contempt of court on the first count!
What is there to be neutral about in this matter!?

I’m really looking forward to the end of this month to see/hear what accounts the TTFF produces!

Again... please try and maintain focus. 

If the TTFF has been ordered and the TTFF has failed to comply then the TTFF is in contempt.  If Jack Warner was not ordered (and he was not), then Jack Warner was under no obligation to pay or to compel the TTFF to pay.  Therefore Jack Warner is NOT in contempt... no matter what we think of Jack Warner personally.  The article above focuses NOT on the TTFF but on Jack Warner... unless the charge can be substantiated then it should not be supported (published under the Soca Warriors Online Media) banner.  Forumites are free to make unsubstantiated charges... SWO Media should not.

Hope that helps.
« Last Edit: May 18, 2011, 01:20:59 PM by Bakes »

Offline Socapro

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Re: Concerned supporter says Warner's position is untenable.
« Reply #16 on: May 18, 2011, 01:24:43 PM »
It’s been ordered by the courts for the TTFF to make a particular interim payment by this Monday 16th May just gone and to produce proper accounts for the 2006 World Cup by the end of this month and the TTFF is already in contempt of court on the first count!
What is there to be neutral about in this matter!?

I’m really looking forward to the end of this month to see/hear what accounts the TTFF produces!

Again... please try and maintain focus. 

If the TTFF has been ordered and the TTFF has failed to comply then the TTFF is in contempt.  If Jack Warner was not ordered (and he was not), then Jack Warner was under no obligation to pay or to compel the TTFF to pay.  Therefore Jack Warner is NOT in contempt... no matter what we think of Jack Warner personally.  The article above focuses NOT on the TTFF but on Jack Warner... unless the charge can be substantiated then it should not be supported (published under the Soca Warriors Online Media) banner.  Forumites are free to make unsubstantiated charges... SWO Media should not.

Hope that helps.

Ok cool. I would have worded the article slightly differently but basically the article is saying that the $hit is about to hit the fan, and we can all agree on that!  :beermug:
De higher a monkey climbs is de less his ass is on de line, if he works for FIFA that is! ;-)

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Re: Concerned supporter says Warner's position is untenable.
« Reply #17 on: May 18, 2011, 03:47:29 PM »
I have to go with Bakes on this. However, I am sure if witnesses come forth it's obvious that JW runs the TTFF with their blessing which in itself probably contradicts their constitution.

And what is the f*&^&ng point of having an editorial and we eh know who write it.

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Offline scooby

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Re: Concerned supporter says Warner's position is untenable.
« Reply #18 on: May 18, 2011, 05:41:32 PM »
dey teef de fu#ing money and blacklist we fu#king players ..and people still asking for SUBSTANCE...well done Firebrand


Leh we try and maintain focus here... what does ^^ that have to do with the allegations in the article above that Jack has shown contempt for the court's ruling?.................@bakes you full of it isn't this also a forum jackula is guilty by association given his position and status he should be pushing for TTff to be more transparent (if it walks like a duck quacks like a duck chances are its a duck, show me your friends and I will tell you who are my grandmother used to say)

Offline elan

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Re: Concerned supporter says Warner's position is untenable.
« Reply #19 on: May 18, 2011, 05:45:19 PM »
The point of the article is to keep everything in the face of the T&T public. Not everyone is informed about what's been going on as we here are. All the f*@king debate about evidence and all that :bs: doh matter. Write the same thing every freaking day. If you think you have enough info and don't need to read the same thing over just exit the thread.

Who cares who write. Put something in the news every damn day. They tief de money, shout it from ontop el cerro del aripo or sando hill.
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Offline Socapro

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Re: Concerned supporter says Warner's position is untenable.
« Reply #20 on: May 18, 2011, 06:02:46 PM »
The point of the article is to keep everything in the face of the T&T public. Not everyone is informed about what's been going on as we here are. All the f*@king debate about evidence and all that :bs: doh matter. Write the same thing every freaking day. If you think you have enough info and don't need to read the same thing over just exit the thread.

Who cares who write. Put something in the news every damn day. They tief de money, shout it from ontop el cerro del aripo or sando hill.

Thieves posing as decent people and being so good at bamboozling the masses that they are elected by them into more & more powerful positions where they can abuse their power and do even more stealing!

Let the people know what really going on at every opportunity and maybe they will stop voting some of these thieves into such powerful positions where they could do so much damage!!
De higher a monkey climbs is de less his ass is on de line, if he works for FIFA that is! ;-)

Offline Football supporter

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Re: Concerned supporter says Warner's position is untenable.
« Reply #21 on: May 18, 2011, 08:26:15 PM »
It’s been ordered by the courts for the TTFF to make a particular interim payment by this Monday 16th May just gone and to produce proper accounts for the 2006 World Cup by the end of this month and the TTFF is already in contempt of court on the first count!
What is there to be neutral about in this matter!?

I’m really looking forward to the end of this month to see/hear what accounts the TTFF produces!

Again... please try and maintain focus. 

If the TTFF has been ordered and the TTFF has failed to comply then the TTFF is in contempt.  If Jack Warner was not ordered (and he was not), then Jack Warner was under no obligation to pay or to compel the TTFF to pay.  Therefore Jack Warner is NOT in contempt... no matter what we think of Jack Warner personally.  The article above focuses NOT on the TTFF but on Jack Warner... unless the charge can be substantiated then it should not be supported (published under the Soca Warriors Online Media) banner.  Forumites are free to make unsubstantiated charges... SWO Media should not.

Hope that helps.

I hear what you say, and I was the first to accuse warner of being in contempt of court. But this statement says " Mr Warner, even if only by association with the TTFF, is in contempt of an order made in the T&T high court." 

Whether or not legally this is factual, doesn't really matter in this instance. Warner is associated very closely with the case. He produced the "unaccountable" accounts where the judge said items such as 1 million francs were missing. Its for the authorities to decide if Warner has a case to answer. Its for the people of Trinidad & Tobago to decide if they feel there is a worthy case for their government to investigate, even if that request is out of frustration, not hard fact. I would guess that over 80% of the active members of this forum believe Warner should be investigated, if only to clear his name. Therefore, although this letter may not be constructed the way some of us may agree with, it is, basically, the over riding opinion of this site.
Given the feedback so far from fairly likeminded forumites, its no wonder the guy (or girl) wanted anonymity!

Offline Bakes

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Re: Concerned supporter says Warner's position is untenable.
« Reply #22 on: May 18, 2011, 08:42:29 PM »
Again, see the reasons for my objections.  Imagine the condemnation that would be heaped on the Guardian (already considered by many of us here to be pro-TTFF) had they published an anonymous letter condemning the players for being greedy and calling for them to be audited by Inland Revenue?  If the site Admins aren't concerned with the appearance of impartiality then who am I to continue making the case? 
« Last Edit: May 18, 2011, 08:45:02 PM by Bakes »

Offline Midknight

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Re: Concerned supporter says Warner's position is untenable.
« Reply #23 on: May 19, 2011, 09:04:45 AM »
Bakes has a point...
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Offline dreamer

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Re: Concerned supporter says Warner's position is untenable.
« Reply #24 on: May 20, 2011, 08:23:13 PM »
C'mon warriors, Let Scamps, Jackula and Rodent hear what time it is.
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Offline Cowen

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Re: Concerned supporter says Warner's position is untenable.
« Reply #25 on: May 21, 2011, 06:21:40 AM »
Bakes has a point...

Agreed. Valid point indeed
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Offline elan

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Re: Concerned supporter says Warner's position is untenable.
« Reply #26 on: May 21, 2011, 08:36:13 AM »
Again, see the reasons for my objections.  Imagine the condemnation that would be heaped on the Guardian (already considered by many of us here to be pro-TTFF) had they published an anonymous letter condemning the players for being greedy and calling for them to be audited by Inland Revenue?  If the site Admins aren't concerned with the appearance of impartiality then who am I to continue making the case? 

Ok, why should the admin worry about being impartial in terms about someone writing an editorial to the newspapers? Who does the SocaWarrior Online represent? I did not pay to join this FORUM, therefore, if an editorial goes out that I do not agree with or the responses from other is that the site is bias, then how does that matter? We are not part of the TTFF, the Players Association or have any affiliation to anyone other than a bunch of know-it-all trying to prove that we are correct and most inteeligent about evry topic under the sun ( and well outside the galaxy too).

Warner and other has in the past stated that the members here do not know anything and they are not worried about a few trouble makers. I think this was in the wake of the Bermuda debacle.

So again why should the site admins. or anyone here who support the Warriors who are fighting in court worry about impartiality? Sometimes to kill the pig you have to get into the mud and wrestle it to the ground.
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Offline Bakes

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Re: Concerned supporter says Warner's position is untenable.
« Reply #27 on: May 21, 2011, 11:48:47 PM »
Ok, why should the admin worry about being impartial in terms about someone writing an editorial to the newspapers? Who does the SocaWarrior Online represent? I did not pay to join this FORUM, therefore, if an editorial goes out that I do not agree with or the responses from other is that the site is bias, then how does that matter? We are not part of the TTFF, the Players Association or have any affiliation to anyone other than a bunch of know-it-all trying to prove that we are correct and most inteeligent about evry topic under the sun ( and well outside the galaxy too).

Warner and other has in the past stated that the members here do not know anything and they are not worried about a few trouble makers. I think this was in the wake of the Bermuda debacle.

So again why should the site admins. or anyone here who support the Warriors who are fighting in court worry about impartiality? Sometimes to kill the pig you have to get into the mud and wrestle it to the ground.

Elan... sometimes it helps to look beyond the obvious and think more about the big picture, and the big picture is that everyone concerned would benefit from a healthier relationship among players, Federation and fans.  I don't doubt that in the past the TTFF has expressed disdain for us here on the forum, but recently there have been, what I interpret as small steps towards healing the rift.  If memory serves correct Flex stated recently that despite everything Jack Warner always responds to his emails.  Recently we had an excellent interview by Flex with Camps... and now Lincoln Phillips... even if he was never on the other side of the disagreement. 

I think many in the TTFF camp have started (belatedly) to second-guess their attitudes towards not only the players, but also towards this site.  I am not saying we have to kiss anybody ass and make nice with them... indeed we need to keep the fire to their feet, but the way to do that is to keep them honest about what they're doing, not make (or support) allegations about things they're not doing.  If you still don't understand or disagree with my position then that's not necessarily a bad thing, disagreement can be healthy at times.

 

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