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Author Topic: Mohamed Bin Hammam and Jack Warner charged by FIFA over alleged bribes  (Read 107332 times)

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Offline weary1969

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Re: Mohamed Bin Hammam and Jack Warner charged by FIFA over alleged bribes
« Reply #390 on: June 04, 2011, 09:25:58 PM »
Still a Simpaul Director I am shockeddddd.
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Offline Socapro

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Re: Mohamed Bin Hammam and Jack Warner charged by FIFA over alleged bribes
« Reply #391 on: June 04, 2011, 10:49:41 PM »
Still a Simpaul Director I am shockeddddd.

Why yuh  :o ?

Is JW we dealing with after all!  8)
De higher a monkey climbs is de less his ass is on de line, if he works for FIFA that is! ;-)

Offline Bakes

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Re: Mohamed Bin Hammam and Jack Warner charged by FIFA over alleged bribes
« Reply #392 on: June 04, 2011, 10:50:04 PM »
Quote
“Since this was an extraordinary meeting of the CFU, Mr bin Hammam found it correct and insisted to pay the travelling and accommodation expenses of the delegates, as well as the overall costs of the conference,” the statement, prepared by an attorney representing bin Hammam, read.

“For this purpose, Mr bin Hammam transferred the estimated costs of USD$360,000 (TT$2.3 million) to the CFU prior to the meeting in Trinidad.”

Brilliant.

Offline vb

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Austin claims his dismissal is illegal
« Reply #393 on: June 05, 2011, 04:49:56 AM »
PORT OF SPAIN, Trinidad, CMC – Interim CONCACAF president Lisle Austin on yesterday branded as “illegal” a decision by the executive committee to oust him from the post, as internal divisions in the continental governing body continued to deepen.


Lisle Austin
Austin, who replaced Jack Warner in the position last Sunday after the Trinidadian was suspended by FIFA’s ethics committee, also rejected the assertion he had been replaced as president and again charged that CONCACAF online media arm was being used to “wage war” against him.

His claims came after a formal release from the New York-based CONCACAF office said Saturday that the majority of executive committee members had taken the decision to suspend Austin for an “apparent infringement of the CONCACAF Statutes”.

“Lisle Austin has been provisionally banned from all football activities within CONCACAF and at the national level by a majority of the CONCACAF Executive Committee members for apparent infringement of the CONCACAF Statutes,” the CONCACAF statement read.

“Notice of this suspension is being sent to FIFA to be extended worldwide.”

But Austin, in a statement released here, said any meeting held without his sanction was also a contravention of CONCACAF statues.

“It necessarily follows that if the President did not convene or did not chair any meeting of the Executive Committee that any actions taken or decisions reached at said meeting are not only unenforceable but are ultra vires (invalid),” the statement read.

Austin also said the committee had “failed to engage in due process which is required in any disciplinary matter but has flouted the very statutory requirements articulated in the CONCACAF Statutes necessary to move in such a direction.”

A senior CONCACAF vice-president, Austin noted he was unaware of the grounds for his suspension and described any charges against him as “baseless” and “trumped up”.

He also rejected the appointment of senior vice-president Alfredo Hawit of Honduras as the new acting president and warned member associations and staff against taking orders from Hawitt, contending they would be “implicating themselves into illegal activities”.

Further, the statement from Austin deemed the actions of the CONCACAF Media Department “illegal”, and argued the online facility was being used for the purpose of waging war against him.

Austin has been at loggerheads with CONCACAF general secretary Chuck Blazer since taking over the post of president last Monday and earlier this week claimed he had fired the American.

A release from CONCACAF in New York subsequently refuted that assertion, countering that Austin had acted without authority.

It was a report from Blazer coming out of a meeting here last month that triggered a bribery investigation by FIFA and led to the temporary suspension of Warner and Asian footall chief Mohamed Bin Hammam.

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Offline Blue

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Re: Mohamed Bin Hammam and Jack Warner charged by FIFA over alleged bribes
« Reply #394 on: June 05, 2011, 05:06:34 AM »
lol, how the hell are they going to unravel this mess?

Offline vb

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Re: Mohamed Bin Hammam and Jack Warner charged by FIFA over alleged bribes
« Reply #395 on: June 05, 2011, 07:25:59 AM »
Quote
“Since this was an extraordinary meeting of the CFU, Mr bin Hammam found it correct and insisted to pay the travelling and accommodation expenses of the delegates, as well as the overall costs of the conference,” the statement, prepared by an attorney representing bin Hammam, read.

“For this purpose, Mr bin Hammam transferred the estimated costs of USD$360,000 (TT$2.3 million) to the CFU prior to the meeting in Trinidad.”

Brilliant.

If money was transferred to the CFU, then what about the "cash" that was given to CFU members. A money transfer to cover expenses doesn't mean that additional money was not given at the meeting.

If JW number one stooge, Anil Roberts want to know how Bin Hamam could come into the country with all that cash.

We NOW hearing about wire transfer.

I would like to see the next official meeting of CONCACAF; Blazer get fired but he say he eh fired. Austin get fired but he say dey cah fire him. It go be interesting.

VB
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Offline Trini _2026

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Re: Mohamed Bin Hammam and Jack Warner charged by FIFA over alleged bribes
« Reply #396 on: June 05, 2011, 08:37:13 AM »
Jack to drop Blatter bombshell today

Bombshell e-mails involving re-elected Federation International Football Association (FIFA) president Sepp Blatter is expected to send shock waves through the football fraternity today as the Association’s suspended vice president, Jack Warner speaks out. Vowing that he will be exonerated from the football scandal following the revelation of a series of e-mails, the Chaguanas West MP has promised that it will send shockwaves throughout the world. Viewers are expected to be glued to their seats from 1 pm today as they listen to live radio broadcasts of Warner’s rally on six radio stations locally. Television stations are also expected to carry the rally where Warner defends himself in the raging controversy. He has chosen his constituency, among his supporters—at Jubilee Recreation Ground at Cacandee Road, Felicity—to speak out. He is expected to spend the day in his constituency where he will take part in a motorcade in celebration of Indian Arrival Day.

He will then address supporters on Indian Arrival Day and on his suspension from FIFA. In a shocking move last Sunday, the world’s football governing body suspended Warner and Qatar’s Mohammed Bin Hammam amidst bribery allegations. Warner has since deemed the suspensions as illegal and unjust, promising to clear his name. The Works and Transport Minister was at his constituency office yesterday where he listened to the cries of more than 300 people seeking assistance on various matters yesterday.

Speaking to the Sunday Guardian, Warner admitted he was moved by the throngs of people at the Piarco International Airport on Thursday on his return from Zurich. Warner said he was committed to serving the people of T&T. “I remain eternally grateful to my supporters. It is good to have friends not only when you are up but also when you are down.” The Minister however, maintained that calls by the People’s National Movement and the Congress of The People (COP) candidate for him to step aside until being cleared of the allegations are unfounded. Warner said: “Ramadhar wants him to go, while Ramadhar’s Prime Minister supports the Chaguanas West MP.” He said Ramadhar used the opportunity to gain political mileage in the upcoming COP internal elections that may end up working against him in the long run.
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Offline Jah Gol

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Re: Mohamed Bin Hammam and Jack Warner charged by FIFA over alleged bribes
« Reply #397 on: June 05, 2011, 10:37:50 AM »
Henry Kissinger interested in helping Fifa reform group


Former US Secretary of State Henry Kissinger has told BBC Radio 5 live he is interested in joining Fifa president Sepp Blatter's committee of 'wise men'.

Blatter has invited him to join his new committee to improve accountability.

"He's not been specific, except to say he wants to create a group of wise men to deal with issues which may arise," Kissinger, 88, told Sportsweek.

"If it can help I'd be willing to participate but we need to know other participants and terms of reference."

The German-born Kissinger was a key figure in the Richard Nixon administration and won the Nobel Peace prize in 1973.

He is a life-long football fan, having been a major player in America's successful bid to host the 1994 World Cup.

He was also involved in reform of the International Olympic Committee following the scandal over Salt Lake City's winning bid to stage the Winter Games in 2002.

Last week Blatter was elected president of world football's governing body for the fourth time, after an unopposed election.

Fifa has come in for heavy criticism over allegations of corruption, particularly in relation to the vote on the venue of the 2022 World Cup.

As a result Blatter announced a raft of reform plans, including allowing Fifa delegates rather than the executive committee to vote on the hosting of future World Cups, and the establishment of a solutions committee including leading figures from inside and outside the game, such as Kissinger.

On the same programme, Football Association chief executive Alex Horne said he was "not losing sleep" over the likelihood of any backlash from Blatter or Fifa following the FA's failed attempt to block his unopposed election, and he hoped the FA could continue to play a role in world football.

"We intend to work constructively now to support Blatter with his wise men committee so we'll take it sensibly going forward," he said.

"Fifa are a very successful organisation, the work they do is incredibly powerful and we empathise with a lot of that work.

"We are still respected as a football nation, so we'd hope to be able to carry on working with Fifa helping world football.

"We've written to him [Blatter] and we'd be happy to meet him face-to-face."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/13659901.stm

Offline Bakes

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Re: Mohamed Bin Hammam and Jack Warner charged by FIFA over alleged bribes
« Reply #398 on: June 05, 2011, 11:51:19 AM »

If money was transferred to the CFU, then what about the "cash" that was given to CFU members. A money transfer to cover expenses doesn't mean that additional money was not given at the meeting.

If JW number one stooge, Anil Roberts want to know how Bin Hamam could come into the country with all that cash.

We NOW hearing about wire transfer.

I would like to see the next official meeting of CONCACAF; Blazer get fired but he say he eh fired. Austin get fired but he say dey cah fire him. It go be interesting.

VB

The argument really isn't that difficult to follow:

Bin Hammam's only dealing would likely have been with Warner directly.  Bin Hammam then insists on paying the travel expenses; which Warner happily offers to arrange.  Warner tells Bin Hammam the bill is US$360,000,which Bin Hammam then transfers either to Warner or to a CFU account designated by Warner.  Bin Hammam never offered cash to anyone, if anything Jack Warner or his agents did.  Any cash offered was for reimbursement of expenses, not bribes.  Anything else you will need to ask Jack Warner, once he got the money Bin Hammam left it up to him.

Simple.

Offline elan

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Re: Mohamed Bin Hammam and Jack Warner charged by FIFA over alleged bribes
« Reply #399 on: June 05, 2011, 12:39:24 PM »

If money was transferred to the CFU, then what about the "cash" that was given to CFU members. A money transfer to cover expenses doesn't mean that additional money was not given at the meeting.

If JW number one stooge, Anil Roberts want to know how Bin Hamam could come into the country with all that cash.

We NOW hearing about wire transfer.

I would like to see the next official meeting of CONCACAF; Blazer get fired but he say he eh fired. Austin get fired but he say dey cah fire him. It go be interesting.

VB

The argument really isn't that difficult to follow:

Bin Hammam's only dealing would likely have been with Warner directly.  Bin Hammam then insists on paying the travel expenses; which Warner happily offers to arrange.  Warner tells Bin Hammam the bill is US$360,000,which Bin Hammam then transfers either to Warner or to a CFU account designated by Warner.  Bin Hammam never offered cash to anyone, if anything Jack Warner or his agents did.  Any cash offered was for reimbursement of expenses, not bribes.  Anything else you will need to ask Jack Warner, once he got the money Bin Hammam left it up to him.

Simple.

What you mean by that? And Who offering the cash for the reimbursement?
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Offline soccerrama

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Re: Mohamed Bin Hammam and Jack Warner charged by FIFA over alleged bribes
« Reply #400 on: June 05, 2011, 03:34:16 PM »
On i95.5fm this morning Peter Richards played an interview which aired on a Grenadian Radio Station interviewing an ex Grenada FA president & he said that this has always happened & he likened Jack to Robin Hood. He claimed from the information he has that Bin Hammam promised the CFU members that if he were to win the presidency of FIFA he would double whatever allocation they were currently receiving from FIFA. The ex FA president then went on to say that he was told that the CFU members were told that they would be given a gift & it would be for the Presidents of the Football Associations to use on a pet project of theirs preferably to do with Football, but what he didn't say was whether it was Bin Hamman who told them this or Jack. Apparently some of the Associations are saying the money was a gift so they eh returning it.
What is very clear is that the money was there for the taking.
The host of the show also told him that he (the host) saw no way out of this mess for Jack & asked the ex FA president who he thought should/would replace Jack at least at the CFU level & guess who he said should/would ...........Capt. Horace Burrell!!!!!

Offline Bakes

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Re: Mohamed Bin Hammam and Jack Warner charged by FIFA over alleged bribes
« Reply #401 on: June 05, 2011, 03:42:00 PM »
What you mean by that? And Who offering the cash for the reimbursement?

Have you been following the situation at all?? 

Offline Socapro

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Re: Mohamed Bin Hammam and Jack Warner charged by FIFA over alleged bribes
« Reply #402 on: June 05, 2011, 03:52:51 PM »
On i95.5fm this morning Peter Richards played an interview which aired on a Grenadian Radio Station interviewing an ex Grenada FA president & he said that this has always happened & he likened Jack to Robin Hood. He claimed from the information he has that Bin Hammam promised the CFU members that if he were to win the presidency of FIFA he would double whatever allocation they were currently receiving from FIFA. The ex FA president then went on to say that he was told that the CFU members were told that they would be given a gift & it would be for the Presidents of the Football Associations to use on a pet project of theirs preferably to do with Football, but what he didn't say was whether it was Bin Hamman who told them this or Jack. Apparently some of the Associations are saying the money was a gift so they eh returning it.
What is very clear is that the money was there for the taking.
The host of the show also told him that he (the host) saw no way out of this mess for Jack & asked the ex FA president who he thought should/would replace Jack at least at the CFU level & guess who he said should/would ...........Capt. Horace Burrell!!!!!

Interesting!!
De higher a monkey climbs is de less his ass is on de line, if he works for FIFA that is! ;-)

Offline elan

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Re: Mohamed Bin Hammam and Jack Warner charged by FIFA over alleged bribes
« Reply #403 on: June 05, 2011, 04:23:04 PM »
What you mean by that? And Who offering the cash for the reimbursement?

Have you been following the situation at all?? 

Yes I have, but who will be offering cash if Hammam wired the money? Why would delegates expenditure be that much if lodging and flight are covered? Just trying to see how this might have been a miscommunication problem.
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Offline Bitter

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Re: Mohamed Bin Hammam and Jack Warner charged by FIFA over alleged bribes
« Reply #404 on: June 05, 2011, 04:36:25 PM »
What you mean by that? And Who offering the cash for the reimbursement?

Have you been following the situation at all?? 

Yes I have, but who will be offering cash if Hammam wired the money? Why would delegates expenditure be that much if lodging and flight are covered? Just trying to see how this might have been a miscommunication problem.

That was to save on bank transfer fees. Fiscal responsibility.
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Offline Brownsugar

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Re: Mohamed Bin Hammam and Jack Warner charged by FIFA over alleged bribes
« Reply #405 on: June 05, 2011, 04:59:07 PM »
On i95.5fm this morning Peter Richards played an interview which aired on a Grenadian Radio Station interviewing an ex Grenada FA president & he said that this has always happened & he likened Jack to Robin Hood. He claimed from the information he has that Bin Hammam promised the CFU members that if he were to win the presidency of FIFA he would double whatever allocation they were currently receiving from FIFA. The ex FA president then went on to say that he was told that the CFU members were told that they would be given a gift & it would be for the Presidents of the Football Associations to use on a pet project of theirs preferably to do with Football, but what he didn't say was whether it was Bin Hamman who told them this or Jack. Apparently some of the Associations are saying the money was a gift so they eh returning it.
What is very clear is that the money was there for the taking.
The host of the show also told him that he (the host) saw no way out of this mess for Jack & asked the ex FA president who he thought should/would replace Jack at least at the CFU level & guess who he said should/would ...........Capt. Horace Burrell!!!!!

I tuned in late and caught the end of this interview.  Thanks for posting.....
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Offline Bakes

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Re: Mohamed Bin Hammam and Jack Warner charged by FIFA over alleged bribes
« Reply #406 on: June 05, 2011, 05:56:43 PM »
Yes I have, but who will be offering cash if Hammam wired the money? Why would delegates expenditure be that much if lodging and flight are covered? Just trying to see how this might have been a miscommunication problem.

Expenses include l=lodging and flight for the delegates... that is what they were reimbursed for.  Normally CFU would pick up the tab but Bin Hammam say since this is ah "exceptional" meeting being convened largely fuh his benefit he'll pay for it.  So his argument is that once he wire the money to cover expenses to Jack he had no other dealing.  Remember, Jack (thru Simpaul) do all the booking, and Jack quote him the price... so he just pay the money.  Now of course it looks as though Jack over charge him and pocket the difference, but if the argument is to be accepted then it leaves Bin Hammam in the clear as to any bribery.  Paying the expense reimbursement is legitimate... reasonable at worst.

Offline dreamer

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Re: Mohamed Bin Hammam and Jack Warner charged by FIFA over alleged bribes
« Reply #407 on: June 05, 2011, 09:27:26 PM »
BigSoccer
"Not All Bahamians Are For Sale"
Posted June 5, 2011at 09:20 AM by Bill Archer
Updated June 5, 2011 at 12:21 PM by Bill Archer

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


As this whole CONCACAF Carnival de Sleaze has continued to unfold (unravel?) and one sorry, sordid tale of venality and shameless greed follows another, it becomes increasingly clear that there aren't many heros.

Even the guys who we now see as Fighting the Good Fight are, in one way or another, tainted by the sleaze they've been if not actively promoting then at least tacitly complicit in for lo these many years.




However, there is in fact one man - or two if you include his partner - who has gotten little attention but who is deserving of both our thanks and our praise.


You probably know at least the basics of his story, but for benefit of those who may have come in late - and as a reminder to the rest of us - it deserves to be told again.

Anton Sealey is the President of the Bahamas Football Association. As such, he should have been in Port-of-Spain on that fateful day when Jack Warners' minions started handing out bundles of cash.

But Sealey was in Zurich helping prepare for the FIFA Soccer News Topics Congress, so his Vice President, Fred Lunn, went in his place.

When Warner ordered everyone to go and line up outside an adjoining ballroom, Lunn was, purely by happenstance, one of the first in line and, thus, one of the first members to be handed a brown envelope with his nations' name on it, told to sign a receipt and then warned not to open it in front of anyone or discuss the contents publicly.

So Lunn left the Grand Hyatt ballroom, went to a secluded table, tore open the envelope and was astonished to see four $10,000 bundles of US$100 bills come tumbling out. The picture that you've surely seen of the stacks of bills next to the opened envelope was Lunns' cell phone picture, taken at that very moment, of his own package.




He then went to a CFU official and told him that he was "not authorized to accept such a gift" but was told to take it anyway.


Lunn - and we'd all, myself included, do well to remember this the next time we carelessly lump the entire CFU into one neat "bunch of greedbags" box - was uncomfortable about this and wasn't sure what to do. So he texted Sealey in Zurich asking "What should I do?" and sent the picture along at the same time.


A few moments later his phone rang. It was Sealey.

"Under no circumstances" Sealey told him "will the Bahamas FA accept such a cash gift." He told Lunn to give the money back.

So Lunn put the money back in the envelope and then walked back to the ballroom and got back in line.

As he stood there, two delegates from another country, ignoring the careful instructions they had just gotten, came out the door, ripped open the envelope and right there, in front of everyone, divvied up the money between them.

And with Lunn standing in line outside the ballroom door, likely getting some pretty odd looks from his fellow delegates, Sealey in Zurich thought about it for a few minutes and then picked up his cell and dialed Chuck Blazer.

The rest, as they say, is history.


Sir Jack Hayward Soccer News Topics is a resident of the Bahamas.

Probably best known for spending - and losing - a not-so-small fortune rescuing his hometown Wolverhampton Wanderers Soccer News Topics from obscurity, he's currently in Florida getting medical treatment but he called The Tribune in Freeport TO TALK ABOUT Sealey and Lunn, and how very proud he, and all Bahamians, are today.

The article makes the point far better than I ever could:

"The attempted bribe was an insult to the whole Caribbean.

"Those seeking the Caribbean Football Federation's vote obviously saw its members as coming from poor island nations who would never have seen so much money as fell from the brown envelope that was offered them. Many proved to their tempters that poor they might be, but they had pride, they had integrity and although they might never see so much money again, under such tainted conditions they would never stoop so low as to pick it up. As was pointed out, $40,000 for the Caribbean's smaller islands would be the equivalent of several years' salary.

"As for the Bahamas, having been once written off as an "island for sale", Sealey, Lunn and the BFA redeemed the country's reputation. They showed the world that not all Bahamians are for sale."


Jack Warners' real crime isn't that he steals money.

Rather, it's that for all his talk about raising up and empowering the Caribbean nations, what he has actually done is degrade them, dragged them down and turned them into simpering, dependent puppies licking their masters' hand as he doles out treats and favors.

People are saying that CONCACAF will always be stuck with a CFU member as President because they hold the vast preponderance of the votes.

But if they'd like to use those votes on a man like Anton Sealey, well, I'm more than OK with that.



There's just nothing to add, except perhaps to note that Sealey's son Justin, a member of the full Bahamian National side, just finished his Freshman year as a member of the North Carolina Tar heels.

I'm going to go ahead and speculate that the kid is going to turn out OK.
Supportin' de Warriors right tru.

Offline Football supporter

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Re: Mohamed Bin Hammam and Jack Warner charged by FIFA over alleged bribes
« Reply #408 on: June 05, 2011, 10:36:49 PM »
Yes I have, but who will be offering cash if Hammam wired the money? Why would delegates expenditure be that much if lodging and flight are covered? Just trying to see how this might have been a miscommunication problem.

Expenses include l=lodging and flight for the delegates... that is what they were reimbursed for.  Normally CFU would pick up the tab but Bin Hammam say since this is ah "exceptional" meeting being convened largely fuh his benefit he'll pay for it.  So his argument is that once he wire the money to cover expenses to Jack he had no other dealing.  Remember, Jack (thru Simpaul) do all the booking, and Jack quote him the price... so he just pay the money.  Now of course it looks as though Jack over charge him and pocket the difference, but if the argument is to be accepted then it leaves Bin Hammam in the clear as to any bribery.  Paying the expense reimbursement is legitimate... reasonable at worst.
Bakes, you make all this sound perfectly reasonable, except a) I very much doubt that each individual nations expenses all equalled exactly US$40,000 and b) why would you reimburse each seperate nation with a brown envelope of cash and order them not to open the envelopes in public?
Surely, these days, you just electronically transfer funds directly to accounts? I'm not sure of the limits, but I'm fairly positive it is illegal to carry a quarter of a million TT's worth of US currency out of the country without declaring it, so its likely that each of these executives have also broke international currency laws. I recall that you said that this is not money laundering, which originally referred to cash from ill gotten gains such as drugs or diamond smuggling, but I do believe that nowadays it refers to any money obtained illegally. As bribery is illegal, ergo, if the allegations are proven, this is, indeed, money laundering. At the very least there are 3 reasons for police investigation: alleged bribery accusations, international money laundering by the executives and illegal profiteering by Warner/Simpaul (remember, bin Hammam has sworn an affidavit that Warner quoted $360,000, but Warner states $260,000 was the cost.
Finally, I think there was 24 or 25 delegates in attendance? 25 x US$40,000 = US$1 million...so where did all that cash come from?
My take is this: Warner allegedly fleeced bin Hammam for US$100,000 and that was his alleged reward for arranging everything. The remaining US$260,000 was allegedly reimbursed electronically at approx US$10,400 per nation (fairly reasonable expenses if they travelled business class) and allegedly Warner helped bin Hammam circumvent customs with his briefcase full of US$ 1 million. 

Offline Bakes

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Re: Mohamed Bin Hammam and Jack Warner charged by FIFA over alleged bribes
« Reply #409 on: June 05, 2011, 11:35:30 PM »
Bakes, you make all this sound perfectly reasonable, except a) I very much doubt that each individual nations expenses all equalled exactly US$40,000 and b) why would you reimburse each seperate nation with a brown envelope of cash and order them not to open the envelopes in public?
Surely, these days, you just electronically transfer funds directly to accounts? I'm not sure of the limits, but I'm fairly positive it is illegal to carry a quarter of a million TT's worth of US currency out of the country without declaring it, so its likely that each of these executives have also broke international currency laws. I recall that you said that this is not money laundering, which originally referred to cash from ill gotten gains such as drugs or diamond smuggling, but I do believe that nowadays it refers to any money obtained illegally. As bribery is illegal, ergo, if the allegations are proven, this is, indeed, money laundering. At the very least there are 3 reasons for police investigation: alleged bribery accusations, international money laundering by the executives and illegal profiteering by Warner/Simpaul (remember, bin Hammam has sworn an affidavit that Warner quoted $360,000, but Warner states $260,000 was the cost.
Finally, I think there was 24 or 25 delegates in attendance? 25 x US$40,000 = US$1 million...so where did all that cash come from?
My take is this: Warner allegedly fleeced bin Hammam for US$100,000 and that was his alleged reward for arranging everything. The remaining US$260,000 was allegedly reimbursed electronically at approx US$10,400 per nation (fairly reasonable expenses if they travelled business class) and allegedly Warner helped bin Hammam circumvent customs with his briefcase full of US$ 1 million. 

Of course it's perfectly reasonable... you're looking at the issue by examining Warner's role.  I'm looking at what Bin Hammam's legal team is arguing in his defense and I find their arguments to have merit.  Go back and look at what I've said and you'll see I've only been addressing the issue of Bin Hammam's culpability.

Money laundering refers to the process of structuring transactions such that the taint from an illegal source is hidden.  Bribery is not illegal... contrary to what you may think.  Bribery of public officials acting in the official course of their duties is illegal but unless it affects the public (bypassing regulatory channels or affecting the market etc.) then likely no laws are being broken.  Everything else you mention relates to Jack's actions... which have already been discussed ad nauseaum.  There is nothing to suggest that Bim Hammam handed over cash... at least nothing that I've seen.  Seems like Jack was the one who did.  Finally, there's no international law that was broken... just local laws against failing to declare.  "Illegal profiteering"... I'm not even sure there's a crime by that name... and even so, I'm pretty sure it doesn't apply here.  If anything Jack fleeced Bin Hammam... that's not a crime, just one party over charging another for services rendered.  It would be up to Bin Hammam to sue Jack to collect the excess funds... but the police would have no say in the matter.
« Last Edit: June 05, 2011, 11:53:15 PM by Bakes »

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Re: Mohamed Bin Hammam and Jack Warner charged by FIFA over alleged bribes
« Reply #410 on: June 05, 2011, 11:52:10 PM »
Wow! Bribery is not illegal? I would never have believed that1 But I guess all of the attempted bribery cases I've read about were probably, as you say, public officials. Thanks for the clarification! So, bin Hammam has managed to keep his hands clean, while Jack looks like having sticky fingers. But theres still the issue of how the alleged US$1 million got into the country?

Offline Bakes

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Re: Mohamed Bin Hammam and Jack Warner charged by FIFA over alleged bribes
« Reply #411 on: June 06, 2011, 12:14:18 AM »
Wow! Bribery is not illegal? I would never have believed that1 But I guess all of the attempted bribery cases I've read about were probably, as you say, public officials. Thanks for the clarification! So, bin Hammam has managed to keep his hands clean, while Jack looks like having sticky fingers. But theres still the issue of how the alleged US$1 million got into the country?

Think about it... even during the bid process, prospective host countries were "wining and dining" FIFA executives, giving them token gifts etc. all in the hopes of influencing decision-makers.  Business is conducted like that all the time... when recruiting a worker a company might "interview" him over lunch... at the company's expense.  Technically all of that is bribery.  Most public authorities however prohibit even a free lunch, so as to dispense with even the appearance of impropriety.  Some limit gifts to items of nominal value... years ago when I was consulting with the Federal gov't here in the US that figure was $25... try catering "lunch" for a group on a $25 dollar budget, nuff sandwich and donuts, lol  So yeah, with public officials it's a different story.

Now some jurisdictions have bribery statutes on their books... perhaps the most famous bribery case was that involving Salt Lake City's Winter bid.  Prosecutor's there relied on an obcure Utah law prohibiting bribery in business affairs... and even then they lost the case, the two bid officials were acquitted.  So if TnT has such an anti-bribery statute then maybe laws were broken... but I doubt it.

As for how the money got in the country... I don't think that's really an issue.  Bin Hammam said it was wired to Jack/CFU.  But even if it was cash... from my understanding, most "failure to declare" as it relates to currency only applies upon exit.  So taking the money out w/o declaring would be illegal... not bringing it in.  Here in the US you can travel with as much money as you want... you just have to declare it.  Taking the sums out isn't illegal, failing to declare is.  But I don't know the TnT laws inside/out like that, so I could be wrong on that one. 
« Last Edit: June 06, 2011, 12:18:54 AM by Bakes »

Offline weary1969

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Re: Mohamed Bin Hammam and Jack Warner charged by FIFA over alleged bribes
« Reply #412 on: June 06, 2011, 07:05:11 AM »
Still a Simpaul Director I am shockeddddd.

Why yuh  :o ?

Is JW we dealing with after all!  8)

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Re: Mohamed Bin Hammam and Jack Warner charged by FIFA over alleged bribes
« Reply #413 on: June 06, 2011, 08:13:30 AM »
Still a Simpaul Director I am shockeddddd.

Why yuh  :o ?

Is JW we dealing with after all!  8)

SARCASMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM

Yeah, I slipped there a bit!!  :D
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Re: Mohamed Bin Hammam and Jack Warner charged by FIFA over alleged bribes
« Reply #414 on: June 06, 2011, 09:23:18 AM »
Still a Simpaul Director I am shockeddddd.

Why yuh  :o ?

Is JW we dealing with after all!  8)

SARCASMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM

Yeah, I slipped there a bit!!  :D

It happens to us mere mortals.
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Re: Mohamed Bin Hammam and Jack Warner charged by FIFA over alleged bribes
« Reply #415 on: June 06, 2011, 12:27:19 PM »
Wow! Bribery is not illegal? I would never have believed that1 But I guess all of the attempted bribery cases I've read about were probably, as you say, public officials. Thanks for the clarification! So, bin Hammam has managed to keep his hands clean, while Jack looks like having sticky fingers. But theres still the issue of how the alleged US$1 million got into the country?

Think about it... even during the bid process, prospective host countries were "wining and dining" FIFA executives, giving them token gifts etc. all in the hopes of influencing decision-makers.  Business is conducted like that all the time... when recruiting a worker a company might "interview" him over lunch... at the company's expense.  Technically all of that is bribery.  Most public authorities however prohibit even a free lunch, so as to dispense with even the appearance of impropriety.  Some limit gifts to items of nominal value... years ago when I was consulting with the Federal gov't here in the US that figure was $25... try catering "lunch" for a group on a $25 dollar budget, nuff sandwich and donuts, lol  So yeah, with public officials it's a different story.

Now some jurisdictions have bribery statutes on their books... perhaps the most famous bribery case was that involving Salt Lake City's Winter bid.  Prosecutor's there relied on an obcure Utah law prohibiting bribery in business affairs... and even then they lost the case, the two bid officials were acquitted.  So if TnT has such an anti-bribery statute then maybe laws were broken... but I doubt it.

As for how the money got in the country... I don't think that's really an issue.  Bin Hammam said it was wired to Jack/CFU.  But even if it was cash... from my understanding, most "failure to declare" as it relates to currency only applies upon exit.  So taking the money out w/o declaring would be illegal... not bringing it in.  Here in the US you can travel with as much money as you want... you just have to declare it.  Taking the sums out isn't illegal, failing to declare is.  But I don't know the TnT laws inside/out like that, so I could be wrong on that one. 

I seem to recall that there is definately a limit to the amount of cash you bring into T&T. Not sure what happens if you're above that limit, but, as you say, failing to declare is illegal. Remember, Bin Hammam said he wired US$360,000. Thats only enough to give US$40,000 to 9 members. Allegedly, the whole 25 were given US$40,000. So that means at least US$640,000 came from somewhere else.

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Re: Mohamed Bin Hammam and Jack Warner charged by FIFA over alleged bribes
« Reply #416 on: June 06, 2011, 02:07:01 PM »
FIFA seeks Placido Domingo's advice
Associated Press
http://espn.go.com/sports/soccer/news/_/id/6631565/sepp-blatter-asks-opera-star-placido-domingo-fifa-adviser

LONDON -- Opera great Placido Domingo has been asked by FIFA president Sepp Blatter to join a new committee intended to help clean up world soccer's governing body.

Blatter hopes the 70-year-old Spanish-born tenor will sit on a "council of wisdom" alongside former U.S. Secretary of State Henry Kissinger and former Netherlands player Johan Cruyff.

"These gentlemen are more or less advisers, they are not the experts ...," Blatter told CNN on Monday during a visit to Azerbaijan. "What they should be also is the kind of council of wisdom, which my executive committee would not like because they think they are the council of wisdom."

Domingo's best known involvement in soccer has been appearing at concerts before four consecutive World Cups from 1990 with Jose Carreras and Luciano Pavarotti, who were collectively known as The Three Tenors.

Announcing the invitation to Domingo to join the FIFA committee, Blatter said: "He is happy, he is proud that he is part (of it)."

Domingo could not be reached for comment.

Blatter also defended the decision to appoint the 88-year-old Kissinger, who has yet to make a firm commitment to become an adviser.

"People say he is an old man, but he is a wise man," Blatter said.

The committee will have the power to investigate and suggest solutions to problems as FIFA recovers from a bribery scandal, which saw executive committee members Mohamed bin Hammam and Jack Warner suspended from all soccer activities during the investigation.

After being elected last week to serve a fourth term as president, Blatter said he hopes to "bring back this credibility to FIFA."

He defended the decision to not have an independent chairman for the new solutions committee, saying he did not want to "open our border and say everyone can come in."

"The football family has asked me to solve the solution inside the FIFA and not outside the FIFA," Blatter said. "We are a very organized institution with 208 associations, six continents. I've put already zero tolerance in the agenda."
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Offline elan

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Re: Mohamed Bin Hammam and Jack Warner charged by FIFA over alleged bribes
« Reply #417 on: June 06, 2011, 02:22:36 PM »
FIFA seeks Placido Domingo's advice
Associated Press
http://espn.go.com/sports/soccer/news/_/id/6631565/sepp-blatter-asks-opera-star-placido-domingo-fifa-adviser

LONDON -- Opera great Placido Domingo has been asked by FIFA president Sepp Blatter to join a new committee intended to help clean up world soccer's governing body.

Blatter hopes the 70-year-old Spanish-born tenor will sit on a "council of wisdom" alongside former U.S. Secretary of State Henry Kissinger and former Netherlands player Johan Cruyff.

"These gentlemen are more or less advisers, they are not the experts ...," Blatter told CNN on Monday during a visit to Azerbaijan. "What they should be also is the kind of council of wisdom, which my executive committee would not like because they think they are the council of wisdom."

Domingo's best known involvement in soccer has been appearing at concerts before four consecutive World Cups from 1990 with Jose Carreras and Luciano Pavarotti, who were collectively known as The Three Tenors.

Announcing the invitation to Domingo to join the FIFA committee, Blatter said: "He is happy, he is proud that he is part (of it)."

Domingo could not be reached for comment.

Blatter also defended the decision to appoint the 88-year-old Kissinger, who has yet to make a firm commitment to become an adviser.

"People say he is an old man, but he is a wise man," Blatter said.

The committee will have the power to investigate and suggest solutions to problems as FIFA recovers from a bribery scandal, which saw executive committee members Mohamed bin Hammam and Jack Warner suspended from all soccer activities during the investigation.

After being elected last week to serve a fourth term as president, Blatter said he hopes to "bring back this credibility to FIFA."

He defended the decision to not have an independent chairman for the new solutions committee, saying he did not want to "open our border and say everyone can come in."

"The football family has asked me to solve the solution inside the FIFA and not outside the FIFA," Blatter said. "We are a very organized institution with 208 associations, six continents. I've put already zero tolerance in the agenda."

I think Kermit the Frog free for a couple months.
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Offline Mose

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Re: Mohamed Bin Hammam and Jack Warner charged by FIFA over alleged bribes
« Reply #418 on: June 06, 2011, 02:32:43 PM »
Jack to drop Blatter bombshell today

Bombshell e-mails involving re-elected Federation International Football Association (FIFA) president Sepp Blatter is expected to send shock waves through the football fraternity today as the Association’s suspended vice president, Jack Warner speaks out. Vowing that he will be exonerated from the football scandal following the revelation of a series of e-mails, the Chaguanas West MP has promised that it will send shockwaves throughout the world. Viewers are expected to be glued to their seats from 1 pm today as they listen to live radio broadcasts of Warner’s rally on six radio stations locally. Television stations are also expected to carry the rally where Warner defends himself in the raging controversy. He has chosen his constituency, among his supporters—at Jubilee Recreation Ground at Cacandee Road, Felicity—to speak out. He is expected to spend the day in his constituency where he will take part in a motorcade in celebration of Indian Arrival Day.

He will then address supporters on Indian Arrival Day and on his suspension from FIFA. In a shocking move last Sunday, the world’s football governing body suspended Warner and Qatar’s Mohammed Bin Hammam amidst bribery allegations. Warner has since deemed the suspensions as illegal and unjust, promising to clear his name. The Works and Transport Minister was at his constituency office yesterday where he listened to the cries of more than 300 people seeking assistance on various matters yesterday.

Speaking to the Sunday Guardian, Warner admitted he was moved by the throngs of people at the Piarco International Airport on Thursday on his return from Zurich. Warner said he was committed to serving the people of T&T. “I remain eternally grateful to my supporters. It is good to have friends not only when you are up but also when you are down.” The Minister however, maintained that calls by the People’s National Movement and the Congress of The People (COP) candidate for him to step aside until being cleared of the allegations are unfounded. Warner said: “Ramadhar wants him to go, while Ramadhar’s Prime Minister supports the Chaguanas West MP.” He said Ramadhar used the opportunity to gain political mileage in the upcoming COP internal elections that may end up working against him in the long run.

SO?? Any news on Jack's shocking revelations??
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Offline Bitter

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Re: Mohamed Bin Hammam and Jack Warner charged by FIFA over alleged bribes
« Reply #419 on: June 06, 2011, 02:48:06 PM »
SO?? Any news on Jack's shocking revelations??

He ent sing yet. Placido will give him lessons.
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