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Author Topic: Controversial article: Are black women less attractive than other women?  (Read 2594 times)

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Offline ZANDOLIE

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FROM: http://www.jamaicaobserver.com


Are black women less attractive than other women?

By NADINE WILSON All Woman writer

Monday, June 06, 2011


AN article carried recently in Psychology Today questioning the perceived unattractiveness of black women has reignited debates of racism and has fuelled international outrage.

The piece entitled Why are black women rated less attractive than other women, but black men are rated better looking than other men? has since been pulled from the magazine's website following its appearance on May 15 this year. But this has not stopped public criticism of the editors of Psychology Today or the author of the piece, Satoshi Kanazawa, a Japanese evolutionary psychologist.


Sociologist Dr Orville Taylor says the bleaching phenomenon is not about people trying to become white, but about people establishing a pattern of beauty that they aspire towards. In this AP photo, from a story titled, Skin bleaching, a growing problem in Jamaica, Mikeisha Simpson poses for a portrait in Kingston. Simpson, 23, hopes to transform her dark complexion to a cafe-aulait- colour common among Jamaica’s elite and favoured by many men in her neighbourhood. She believes a fairer skin could be her ticket to a better life, so she spends her savings on blackmarket concoctions that promise to lighten her pigment.
In this AP photo, a woman applies skin lightening cream to her legs as she sits on a curb in downtown Kingston. In Jamaica, doctors say the skin lightening phenomenon has reached dangerous proportions.
     Sociologist Dr Orville Taylor says the bleaching phenomenon is not about people trying to become white, but about people establishing a pattern of beauty that they aspire towards. In this AP photo, from a story titled, Skin bleaching, a growing problem in Jamaica, Mikeisha Simpson poses for a portrait in Kingston. Simpson, 23, hopes to transform her dark complexion to a cafe-aulait- colour common among Jamaica’s elite and favoured by many men in her neighbourhood. She believes a fairer skin could be her ticket to a better life, so she spends her savings on blackmarket concoctions that promise to lighten her pigment. 1/2 


Kanazawa concluded, based on a study in which several persons were interviewed, that black women were objectively less attractive than white, Asian and North American women, though they "subjectively consider themselves to be far more physically attractive than others".

"Black women are significantly less physically attractive than women of other races," said Kanazawa, who works at the London School of Economics.

"The only thing I can think of that might potentially explain the lower average level of physical attractiveness among black women is testosterone. Africans on average have higher levels of testosterone than other races," he explained.

The claim that blacks are unattractive, while offensive and backward, has not come as a surprise to at least two local academics who said that years of independence from slavery has not changed people's perception of blacks.

Neither does it surprise counsellor Carla Brookes, who said the way some black women behave, dress and act fuels a perception of "the fat, loud video model type with loose morals".

"You can't blame people sometimes for judging us the way they do," Brookes said. "We cuss, we fight, we're loud and we act like we're proud of it!"

Noted Sociologist Dr Orville Taylor said the "seasoning" blacks underwent during slavery has caused many to look at blacks in a negative light, despite our achievements since independence.

"I am not surprised by any type of survey or psychological research that points to negative self-imagery (especially) when you juxtapose that against the bleaching phenomenon which is not about people trying to become white, but about people establishing a pattern of beauty that they aspire towards," he said.

He explained that like a curry stain, the effects of slavery which saw many blacks humiliated and exploited under European rule cannot be reversed overnight.

"In the United States, it is perhaps a little bit worse, believe it or not, because at least in Jamaica, we managed to achieve something called national identity and status. Black Americans wear this kind of marker where they are called something else, they are called African Americans. Nobody walks around and talks about European Americans or Caucasian Americans," he pointed out.

Lecturer in the Department of Cultural Studies at the University of West Indies, Mona, Horace Williams, believes that while more blacks are now embracing their 'nappy' hair styling, signalling, "an impression of updated appreciation", there is still a strong indication of a lack of appreciation of self.

"Persons are marketed differently. They wear their hair in a sort of style that speaks to a mimicry of appreciation, but in fact and indeed, there is really no appreciation of self," he said.

"I really believe we haven't really gone anywhere different, it is just a matter of new marketing, but same old problem," Williams noted.

Although the black women in Kanazawa's study considered themselves beautiful, Dr Taylor has found that blacks in the Caribbean have perpetuated this general belief that something is wrong with how they look.

"It must be seen in the same context of the black hair phenomenon that we use even today. We make jokes that people's hair look like 'kiah' and we make jokes about people's hair looking like grains of [pepper] or scotch brite. We make those kinds of jokes and we still associate, and I suspect the psychological studies will show as well, we still associate black and ugly," he said.

"When a very, very dark woman with distinct African features is good looking, they tend to say in a normal way, even when people are not trying to be offensive, 'oh, she looks nice for a black girl' or 'she is a nice looking black girl'. It is almost never said that this is a nice looking brown girl."

While the study found black women to be unattractive, the same study concluded that black males were considered more attractive than Asian, white and North American men. This finding too does not come as much of a surprise to Dr Taylor who believes this belief is a subtext of colonial discourse where the wives of the white plantation owners or overseers sought out black men for sexual satisfaction.

"They always show stories of the wife of the plantation owner or overseer bringing in the Mandingo through the back door or having sex with the gardener," said Dr Taylor.

"The idea of a virile man was also part of the stereotype and that has always been engrained in our minds to incorporate a notion of this animal-looking thing, this strong black man, a little bit less than the human, but more than the animal, a stud. The word stud is not a flattering word, but we have embraced it," he said.

The fact that women are now embracing their natural hair more is a good indication for Dr Taylor that we are slowly accepting various aspects of our blackness, but he doesn't expect a full acceptance of our black features anytime soon.

"It took several hundred years to evolve in a negative way, so it's going to take a long time as well for that to change," he said.

Meanwhile, Williams also believes that it is going to take a while for people to truly accept black features as opposed to just using it as a "marketing strategy to mimic appreciation".

"The appreciation of black features, I am not sure that time has healed that," he said. "What has changed is the media marketing and a broader context in which multi-culturalism is fundamental to any type of institutional advancement, educational, work [and] otherwise."



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Offline Jah Gol

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Offline Preacher

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Stop hating on black people please.  Haven't we taken over enough things?  Sports, Film, Government. 
Don't cheat yourself treat yourself.  That world is better with us in it stop haten. 
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Offline Daft Trini

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Stop hating on black people please.  Haven't we taken over enough things?  Sports, Film, Government. 
Don't cheat yourself treat yourself.  That world is better with us in it stop haten. 

Did you marry a black woman?

Offline Bakes

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Did you marry a black woman?

I'm curious... what does that have to do with anything?

Offline Preacher

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Stop hating on black people please.  Haven't we taken over enough things?  Sports, Film, Government. 
Don't cheat yourself treat yourself.  That world is better with us in it stop haten. 

Did you marry a black woman?

No actually my wife is white and my son will be black and white.   :beermug: 
In Everything give thanks for this is the will of God concerning you.

Offline Jah Gol

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The the Gleaner article goes in a different direction to the study.


Quote
At the end of each interview, the interviewer rates the physical attractiveness of the respondent objectively on the following five-point scale: 1 = very unattractive, 2 = unattractive, 3 = about average, 4 = attractive, 5 = very attractive.
Apparently they rated themselves and others. The 'subjective' rating is the personal rating and the rating by the 3 other respondents is the 'objective' one.



Quote
1. Recall that women on average are more physically attractive than men. So women of all races are on average more physically attractive than the "average" Add Health respondent,

Both men and women rate women as more attractive than men but the range in the rating of women is greater than men's.

Quote
2. It is very interesting to note that, even though black women are objectively less physically attractive than other women, black women (and men)subjectively consider themselves to be far more physically attractive than others. In Wave III, Add Health asks its respondents to rate their own physical attractiveness subjectively on the following four-point scale: 1 = not at all, 2 = slightly, 3 = moderately, 4 = very. As you can see in the following graphs, both black women and black men rate themselves to be far more physically attractive than individuals of other races.

This is the most interesting part for me. I was reading about interracial marriage on wikipedia the other day. One statistic indicated the the group least likely to marry or date outside of their race was black women.

The other thing I think about is the Good Hair documentary by Chris Rock that showed how much attention black people and particularly black women pay towards grooming themselves.

Offline Daft Trini

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Stop hating on black people please.  Haven't we taken over enough things?  Sports, Film, Government. 
Don't cheat yourself treat yourself.  That world is better with us in it stop haten. 

Did you marry a black woman?

No actually my wife is white and my son will be black and white.   :beermug: 

It was not a loaded question, sorry if it came out that way. I know you are one of the most objective posters here so I asked. A lot of my friends in the military are interracially married. Especially my black friends who voice the same opinions you had but opted (they had choices) to marry outside of their race. Also a lot of my christian friends are interracially married. Just trying to open up some discussion.  :beermug: (no hidden agenda)


Adding to the discussion:
Ethiopian women are some of the prettiest women I have come across. (a lot of east african women are beautiful). 
« Last Edit: June 19, 2011, 08:48:03 AM by Daft Trini »

truetrini

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Stop hating on black people please.  Haven't we taken over enough things?  Sports, Film, Government. 
Don't cheat yourself treat yourself.  That world is better with us in it stop haten. 

Did you marry a black woman?

No actually my wife is white and my son will be black and white.   :beermug: 

It was not a loaded question, sorry if it came out that way. I know you are one of the most objective posters here so I asked. A lot of my friends in the military are interracially married. Especially my black friends who voice the same opinions you had but opted (they had choices) to marry outside of their race. Also a lot of my christian friends are interracially married. Just trying to open up some discussion.  :beermug: (no hidden agenda)


Adding to the discussion:
Ethiopian women are some of the prettiest women I have come across. (a lot of east african women are beautiful). 

as soon as an Ethiopian breed..dey does swell up too much breds...nah!  I go pass on dem

Offline Preacher

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Stop hating on black people please.  Haven't we taken over enough things?  Sports, Film, Government. 
Don't cheat yourself treat yourself.  That world is better with us in it stop haten. 

Did you marry a black woman?

No actually my wife is white and my son will be black and white.   :beermug: 

It was not a loaded question, sorry if it came out that way. I know you are one of the most objective posters here so I asked. A lot of my friends in the military are interracially married. Especially my black friends who voice the same opinions you had but opted (they had choices) to marry outside of their race. Also a lot of my christian friends are interracially married. Just trying to open up some discussion.  :beermug: (no hidden agenda)


Adding to the discussion:
Ethiopian women are some of the prettiest women I have come across. (a lot of east african women are beautiful). 

as soon as an Ethiopian breed..dey does swell up too much breds...nah!  I go pass on dem

Which woman doh get some seize?   I eh like noh setta skinny gyul.   ;D

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Offline Dutty

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Little known fact: The online transportation medium called Uber was pioneered in Trinidad & Tobago in the 1960's. It was originally called pullin bull.

Offline ribbit

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is a shame dis crap called "science"

Offline PantherX

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Stop hating on black people please.  Haven't we taken over enough things?  Sports, Film, Government. 
Don't cheat yourself treat yourself.  That world is better with us in it stop haten. 

Did you marry a black woman?
I did ;D

Offline supporter

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is a shame dis crap called "science"

Must be the same Japanese 'scientist' who is created steak from fecal matter..
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Offline kicker

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Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, and I think western influences which are dominated by white culture, along with attitudes that have been developed through slavery and colonialism have played a big part in what we consider to be attractive...in many ways that aren't always very obvious...

I think black men are more fortunate than black women in avoiding the unattractive stigma because men don't rely on hair as much as women do to enhance their looks...Black hair unfortunately hasn't managed to break the ugly stigma in women.... Hip hop/popular culture and the black male dominance of many sports has also raised the stock of black men, more so than black women. 

Without being philosophical though, I find that on average in New York City where I live, white women do a better job of taking care of themselves, particularly in the area of staying in shape while the black man on the other hand maintains a stigma of being athletic/well built. 
« Last Edit: June 22, 2011, 07:09:14 AM by kicker »
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Offline Jah Gol

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Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, and I think western influences which are dominated by white culture, along with attitudes that have been developed through slavery and colonialism have played a big part in what we consider to be attractive...in many ways that aren't always very obvious...

I think black men are more fortunate than black women in avoiding the unattractive stigma because men don't rely on hair as much as women do to enhance their looks...Black hair unfortunately hasn't managed to break the ugly stigma in women.... Hip hop culture and the black male dominance of many sports has also raised the stock of black men, more so than black women. 

Without being philosophical though, I find that on average in New York City where I live, white women do a better job of taking care of themselves, particularly in the area of staying in shape while the black man on the other hand maintains a stigma of being athletic/well built. 
Agreed. I prefer black women but the white girls generally have a better grade in New York.

Offline elan

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Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, and I think western influences which are dominated by white culture, along with attitudes that have been developed through slavery and colonialism have played a big part in what we consider to be attractive...in many ways that aren't always very obvious...

I think black men are more fortunate than black women in avoiding the unattractive stigma because men don't rely on hair as much as women do to enhance their looks...Black hair unfortunately hasn't managed to break the ugly stigma in women.... Hip hop culture and the black male dominance of many sports has also raised the stock of black men, more so than black women. 

Without being philosophical though, I find that on average in New York City where I live, white women do a better job of taking care of themselves, particularly in the area of staying in shape while the black man on the other hand maintains a stigma of being athletic/well built. 
Agreed. I prefer black women but the white girls generally have a better grade in New York.

NYC and White women...lol what a combo.
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Offline Quags

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If I was black I wouldve married black .from trini oh my god beauties I remember and  sweethearts also.reds count in my options to right ,but no matter .

Offline Brownsugar

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is a shame dis crap called "science"

Must be the same Japanese 'scientist' who is created steak from fecal matter..


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Offline Ray Agostini

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Growing up in colonial (read: “white”) Trinidad, I suppose I was indoctrinated with the idea that Blacks were “inferior”, and in this regard I confess to once having inferior views (i.e., unhealthy ones). The real problem is that we generally judge people by looks, even among whites. So I’m really not sure that this is a “racial” problem. There are “ugly” white women (in some eyes), and beautiful Black women, and this is usually defined not by skin colour, but by features. So that tells me that it’s probably an evolutionary trait (which is quite arbitrary), and applies “across the board”, to whites and blacks.  How does one define a “handsome dog”? Is an Afghan more “handsome” than a Boxer? Is a German shepherd more “handsome” than a pug? So, as one poster said, “Beauty is in the eyes of the beholder”, and there’s nothing “racist” about this. It’s all in our personal perceptions, and, as I said, applies “across the board”.

What this probably magnifies, is our penchant to judge people, of any “race”, by looks rather than “what’s inside”. That cute sentimental expression is meant quite seriously, though.  We probably can’t help our evolutionary tendencies in regard to outwardly judging what’s beautiful, and what’s not, but I think we should bear in mind that it’s all “relative”, to our personal tastes too (environment, upbringing, etc.). The “black stud” phenomenon has been rampant, but I do think that Black females are making their way too, and becoming increasingly more attractive to white men, and I don’t think it’s the “rebound” effect, but I do think that it partly lies in features, rather than skin colour, at least as far as “first impressions” go. To tell the truth, I’m not who I once was – and I’m now (and have been for a very long time) totally colour blind (if not superficially “feature blind”, to whites and blacks).  The Times They Are a-Changin'....

Just my opinion. 

Offline Bakes

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Growing up in colonial (read: “white”) Trinidad, I suppose I was indoctrinated with the idea that Blacks were “inferior”, and in this regard I confess to once having inferior views (i.e., unhealthy ones). The real problem is that we generally judge people by looks, even among whites. So I’m really not sure that this is a “racial” problem. There are “ugly” white women (in some eyes), and beautiful Black women, and this is usually defined not by skin colour, but by features. So that tells me that it’s probably an evolutionary trait (which is quite arbitrary), and applies “across the board”, to whites and blacks.  How does one define a “handsome dog”? Is an Afghan more “handsome” than a Boxer? Is a German shepherd more “handsome” than a pug? So, as one poster said, “Beauty is in the eyes of the beholder”, and there’s nothing “racist” about this. It’s all in our personal perceptions, and, as I said, applies “across the board”.

What this probably magnifies, is our penchant to judge people, of any “race”, by looks rather than “what’s inside”. That cute sentimental expression is meant quite seriously, though.  We probably can’t help our evolutionary tendencies in regard to outwardly judging what’s beautiful, and what’s not, but I think we should bear in mind that it’s all “relative”, to our personal tastes too (environment, upbringing, etc.). The “black stud” phenomenon has been rampant, but I do think that Black females are making their way too, and becoming increasingly more attractive to white men, and I don’t think it’s the “rebound” effect, but I do think that it partly lies in features, rather than skin colour, at least as far as “first impressions” go. To tell the truth, I’m not who I once was – and I’m now (and have been for a very long time) totally colour blind (if not superficially “feature blind”, to whites and blacks).  The Times They Are a-Changin'....

Just my opinion. 


I didn't read the preceding discussion so I'm just responding to this in a vacuum.  There's nothing racist about having subjective notions of beauty, but as it relates to the issue in this particular case, the Japanese author (from what I recall from when the controversy first broke 2 months ago) is beginning with the proposition that blacks are inherently less attractive than other races... and he has a history of being a racial provocateur.  So in that light, he was definitely being racist.

But perhaps you were just commenting on the larger subjective notions of beauty that we all have.

Offline Ray Agostini

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I didn't read the preceding discussion so I'm just responding to this in a vacuum.  There's nothing racist about having subjective notions of beauty, but as it relates to the issue in this particular case, the Japanese author (from what I recall from when the controversy first broke 2 months ago) is beginning with the proposition that blacks are inherently less attractive than other races... and he has a history of being a racial provocateur.  So in that light, he was definitely being racist.

But perhaps you were just commenting on the larger subjective notions of beauty that we all have.

Yes I did read the article, and that's the notion I got too, although I hadn't heard of him before. I'm not really fond of patsy "Irvingite" interpretations of "truth".

Offline kicker

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This is a very sensitive topic because of the weight that the word "ugly" or "unattractive" carries... What such labels do to self esteem etc...The way I see it, (the perception of) good looks is just a reflection of popularity...And what's popular is a subjective thing and hence isn't always what's absolutely "better". 

To make it easier to digest, take the word popular and substitute it for attractive - all of a sudden the topic becomes easier to talk about...Bottom line is that white/caucasion physical features are globally more popular.  They just are.  Straight hair, light skin, blue & green eyes, sharper thinner noses etc...

Even among white people, the preference for straighter hair, and blue eyes is ever present - If you observe closely on the east coast of the USA you'll notice that the majority of blonde white women aren't naturally blonde... A large % of white women walking around with straight hair actually have their hair straightened (either blown out or chemically straightened) - it's a big thing in the white Jewish community... I've heard quite a few expecting mothers talk about how awesome it would be if their baby had blue eyes... Jewish girls in New York get nose jobs at an alarming rate to make their noses less "ethnic" (yes they use the word ethnic with no racial malice intended)... other white women have nose jobs to make the tip of their nose less bulbous...you'd be surprise how many middle class white women over 18yrs old have had nose jobs to alter the shape of their nose... so it's not just a white-black/race thing...It's a popularity thing that takes place even within the white race......

....and things are changing (albeit very slowly) - the acceptance of multi-racial beauty and "exotic-ness" is a relatively recent phenomenon, so too is the popularity of botox injections in the lips...there was a time when thick lips were not attractive- now thick lips are nice lips... So again -it's a popularity thing.  Are white women generally more attractive than black women?  If you were to survey a brutally honest global sample the painful answer might very well be "yes"... But it's not as controversial and grimmly racist as these analyses make them out to be...Its a simple case of popularity, and we can philosopohize forever where the popularity comes from... and we'll realize that it exists within the races as much as it does between them...

Survey the globe and you'll find that football is more liked than tennis - Does that make it an absolutely better sport?  no- it's just more popular.  Are tennis players inferior athletes to footballers?  You can draw analogies to music, art, and other forms of entertainment as well...
« Last Edit: June 22, 2011, 01:47:58 PM by kicker »
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Offline pecan

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Let me weigh in ...

It seems to me 'attractiveness" is a combination of two components

1) inherent physical features that the opposite sex find attractive (for ex, in non-human animals, the more colorful males have a better chance of attracting a female - birds and guppies come to mind)

2) Social conditioning; many posters have discussed that already.

The social factor will change from time to time depending on what is in vogue, but the basic physical traits will remain.  Face it, there are 'ugly' people in each race and when we see them, we know that they are ugly. Likewise, there are attractive people in each race that can immediately be identified as being pretty or handsome.  It was reported that Halle Berry had a combination of traits that appealed to most males, across all races.

I am lucky that a pretty mixed-raced woman fell in love with me.  I still find her attractive after 36 years in a relationship. Yes, we have both put on some pounds, have less muscle mass, more skin discolouration etc.  I suppose this could be considered a third component that determines attractiveness - love and familiarity.

 
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hahahahahahah :beermug: :rotfl:
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kicker i touch down in nyc with my son today for a lil sightseeing...lord on 7th avenue i stand up and i seeing some bess grades passing.    plus i seeing them white girl love up with congo...lorddd   if i was 20 years old again ;D