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Offline royalian

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Football Club Owner: TT Edition
« on: July 16, 2011, 11:15:21 AM »
After reading the discussion on the forum about the pending TT Pro league changes, I was thought of something maybe diehards can answer.

Given the opportunity to OWN a TT Pro League team, with a moderate budget, what will you do as owner in the current Pro League environment, that will ensure your team not only performs, but your club is profitable? TT$1 million budget to start off the season (remember it costs $400,000 to join the league).
« Last Edit: July 16, 2011, 11:20:29 AM by royalian »

Offline Coop's

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Re: Football Club Owner: TT Edition
« Reply #1 on: July 16, 2011, 01:30:36 PM »
After reading the discussion on the forum about the pending TT Pro league changes, I was thought of something maybe diehards can answer.

Given the opportunity to OWN a TT Pro League team, with a moderate budget, what will you do as owner in the current Pro League environment, that will ensure your team not only performs, but your club is profitable? TT$1 million budget to start off the season (remember it costs $400,000 to join the league).
       FS i eh hearing yu.

Offline Socafan

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Re: Football Club Owner: TT Edition
« Reply #2 on: July 16, 2011, 03:57:13 PM »
Nothing.....No incentive for me to own a pro-league team. How am I recouping my investment. I'm not getting advertising because the league does not appear to value spectators, and there are none, and there is no marketing. I would only do it out of the goodness of my heart because I want to support some youth in a sport I love. But, I definitely doh need the pro-league fuh that.

Dexter Skeene is a joker. He go say the league is in it's mature life cycle? By what measurement?...It about to die? Their model is poor. Don't know what they trying to achieve. It's mystifying.

It would make more sense to take my money, get with some other businessmen and start some bacchanal with a rival "pro-league" to get some interest going, make sure it's community based, have rational match times and schedules avoid the big stadia unless is a cup final or something so or we eh have no choice, marketing, marketing, marketing, make sure a varied group of people make some money so everybody develop their own stake in it, and take it from there.

Current pro-league is a waste of time not worth investing in.
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Offline ZANDOLIE

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Re: Football Club Owner: TT Edition
« Reply #3 on: July 16, 2011, 04:25:19 PM »
Nothing.....No incentive for me to own a pro-league team. How am I recouping my investment. I'm not getting advertising because the league does not appear to value spectators, and there are none, and there is no marketing. I would only do it out of the goodness of my heart because I want to support some youth in a sport I love. But, I definitely doh need the pro-league fuh that.

Dexter Skeene is a joker. He go say the league is in it's mature life cycle? By what measurement?...It about to die? Their model is poor. Don't know what they trying to achieve. It's mystifying.

It would make more sense to take my money, get with some other businessmen and start some bacchanal with a rival "pro-league" to get some interest going, make sure it's community based, have rational match times and schedules avoid the big stadia unless is a cup final or something so or we eh have no choice, marketing, marketing, marketing, make sure a varied group of people make some money so everybody develop their own stake in it, and take it from there.

Current pro-league is a waste of time not worth investing in.

Not much a single club owner cwith small resources can do under the current league structure. If you want to buy a team and expect profitability you better have deeper pockets than that.

I think Skeene is trying to pull things together, he cares about the development of the league. But what ails the Pro-League requires a major effort to fix. These fellas too harden to seek help
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Offline Football supporter

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Re: Football Club Owner: TT Edition
« Reply #4 on: July 17, 2011, 12:03:51 AM »
Pro League is either an expensive hobby or a business. If its a business, you must have control of your home ground. No nutsmen selling and keeping ther profit unless thery pay a licence fee. Replica shirts for sale and a share of the profits.
It can be done. Just needs businessmen who like football rather than football men trying to raise cash. How can South End, with all the businesses in the south, not attract major sponsorship?
« Last Edit: July 17, 2011, 07:10:06 AM by Football supporter »

Offline Deeks

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Re: Football Club Owner: TT Edition
« Reply #5 on: July 17, 2011, 12:50:45 AM »
Pro League is either an expensive hobby or a business. If its a business, you must have control of your home ground. No nutsmen selling and keeping ther profit unless thery pay a licence fee. Rwplica shirts for sale and a share of the profits.
It can be done. Just needs businessm en who like football rather than football men trying to raise cash. How can South End, with all the businesses in the south, not attract major sponsorship?


FS, I agree with you. For starters, a serious pro-team in TT can't just have just a million dollar budget. 400 thou. going to the league membership. 600 thous. remain to pay coaches and technical staff and players. I don't know what kind of arrangements are made for ground rental and event staff. I don't think 1 mill. go wuk.

Offline College

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Re: Football Club Owner: TT Edition
« Reply #6 on: July 17, 2011, 06:03:13 AM »
Pro League is either an expensive hobby or a business. If its a business, you must have control of your home ground. No nutsmen selling and keeping ther profit unless thery pay a licence fee. Rwplica shirts for sale and a share of the profits.
It can be done. Just needs businessm en who like football rather than football men trying to raise cash. How can South End, with all the businesses in the south, not attract major sponsorship?


FS, I agree with you. For starters, a serious pro-team in TT can't just have just a million dollar budget. 400 thou. going to the league membership. 600 thous. remain to pay coaches and technical staff and players. I don't know what kind of arrangements are made for ground rental and event staff. I don't think 1 mill. go wuk.

Agreed, not even close...

Offline Football supporter

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Re: Football Club Owner: TT Edition
« Reply #7 on: July 17, 2011, 07:11:18 AM »
When you add it all up, monthly wage bill must reach $150,000 alone. Remember, you need a reserve team and 3 youth teams too!

Offline Coop's

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Re: Football Club Owner: TT Edition
« Reply #8 on: July 17, 2011, 07:31:30 AM »
Just being sacarstic,it seems like all what you all talking about there eh go wok in T&T,the answer to all of this is Minor League Football,ent all them Pros like to play Minor League Football,so no problem for players,no problem for grounds,for sure no problem with crowds and it eh costing nobody nothing,freeness works in T&T.

Offline dreamer

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Re: Football Club Owner: TT Edition
« Reply #9 on: July 17, 2011, 08:03:06 AM »
As I read these threads, I'm getting the feeling that the club leaders and managers, some well intentioned like Rougier etc are struggling badly to grasp the fundamentals of sport club management and we need addtional courses (if it's ever been properly done) to boost the knowledge base of these community leaders on some of the areas that FS is mentioning. Resources from experienced talent in UK, USA,Mexico and Costa Rica would be useful sources of teaching talent on this kind of community based sports management, especially as oit relates to recessionary times. Something has to be done before these teams all collapse and cause further painful dislocation to these players who are looking for a break.
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Offline Flex

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Re: Football Club Owner: TT Edition
« Reply #10 on: July 17, 2011, 08:27:08 AM »
Cant really feel sorry for any of them coaches who is struggling in T&T, either they are up for it or not.

Rougier is very unprofessional and for a man who has played at a high professional level outside of the country you would expect more, for example, just to get his team roster, he cant produce, he said he will get back to me on the info I requested (a few times), well it has been over 2 years now - and I am still waiting.... and there is more that I cannot disclosed. Same can be said for North East Stars (IE: Roster info).

Why didn't QPR take Police FC spot in the league and send Police to replace Tobago United. A government supported team would do good in Tobago, we have Defence Force based in Trinidad and it would have been nice to see Police based in Tobago, they have the funds to accommodate such.

Clubs like Superstar Rangers and FC SouthEnd does not act like professional teams, Rangers tries, but they are not properly managed. Look for example, a team from Antigua (Antigua Barracuda FC) could afford to compete in the USL.

North East Stars have been doing relatively well at senior level. But at Junior level they seemed to be suffering. They have a good management team and should focus on not only building a big fan based but a good youth program as well, teams like T&TEC, Rangers, SouthEnd (U-13), Police (U-17), Cali and Ma Pau should not be ahead of them at this level.

Their last game won at U-13 and U-15 levels was by default.

Under 13, they are 10th place out of 11

Under 15, they are a bit better, 7 out of 11

Under 17, they are 9th out of 11.

What is missing in T&T club system is proper organization and professionalism and then everything else would fall into place.
« Last Edit: July 17, 2011, 08:34:45 AM by Flex »
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Offline Coop's

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Re: Football Club Owner: TT Edition
« Reply #11 on: July 17, 2011, 08:47:15 AM »
As I read these threads, I'm getting the feeling that the club leaders and managers, some well intentioned like Rougier etc are struggling badly to grasp the fundamentals of sport club management and we need addtional courses (if it's ever been properly done) to boost the knowledge base of these community leaders on some of the areas that FS is mentioning. Resources from experienced talent in UK, USA,Mexico and Costa Rica would be useful sources of teaching talent on this kind of community based sports management, especially as oit relates to recessionary times. Something has to be done before these teams all collapse and cause further painful dislocation to these players who are looking for a break.
      Dreamer lets deal with reality,you all are quite right in your ideas/views,i'm sure management of our clubs have some sort of experience in those areas but their hands are tied to implement anything,finance is a major problem for all our clubs and the League they play in,we have the expertise and qualified people right here at home but again everthing is finance.
       We keep referring to sponsors and businesses getting involved but that does not seem to be happening,people eh coming out to watch Football,now what's next?how long can we function at the rate we are going?this for sure will be the death of Football in the country if this League folds,are we prepared for that?    

Offline Bourbon

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Re: Football Club Owner: TT Edition
« Reply #12 on: July 17, 2011, 09:27:30 AM »
Forgive me for asking an obvious question but the $400000 for league membership...what does that go towards?

The greatest single cause of atheism in the world today are Christians who acknowledge Jesus ;with their lips and walk out the door and deny Him by their lifestyle. That is what an unbelieving world simply finds unbelievable.

Offline Coop's

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Re: Football Club Owner: TT Edition
« Reply #13 on: July 17, 2011, 09:46:38 AM »
Forgive me for asking an obvious question but the $400000 for league membership...what does that go towards?


        I'm just guessing here,there are a lot of different Fees etc associated with running a viable Pro League,affiliation to a governing body,insurance possible,Lawyer may be,rental of Grounds and i'm sure Skeene and them not doing all that work and taking all that pressure for free.

Offline Bourbon

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Re: Football Club Owner: TT Edition
« Reply #14 on: July 17, 2011, 10:08:22 AM »
Forgive me for asking an obvious question but the $400000 for league membership...what does that go towards?


        I'm just guessing here,there are a lot of different Fees etc associated with running a viable Pro League,affiliation to a governing body,insurance possible,Lawyer may be,rental of Grounds and i'm sure Skeene and them not doing all that work and taking all that pressure for free.


I wouldnt doubt it. Why I asking is to understand what this total of 4 million goes towards.
If Insurance...a group plan? Very good.
If rental of grounds, then that means the team doesnt have to find that money..which makes it more logical that the fixtures have no geographic logic in them.
Governing body? Well...that much is obvious..but...again..how much?

My understanding of this kinda is important so that I wont make the mistake of duplication of expenses. If the PFL paying for ground rental..then I dont need to budget for that out of the remaining 600000 should I?

Hence my question.
The greatest single cause of atheism in the world today are Christians who acknowledge Jesus ;with their lips and walk out the door and deny Him by their lifestyle. That is what an unbelieving world simply finds unbelievable.

Offline dreamer

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Re: Football Club Owner: TT Edition
« Reply #15 on: July 17, 2011, 12:36:54 PM »
Jabloteh responds with signing the iconic Earl "Spiderman" Carter:

Trinidad and Tobago Guardian
Sunday July 17, 2011

http://www2.guardian.co.tt/sport/2011/07/17/jabloteh-assures-confidence-carter-slams-critics


Digicel T&T Pro League club, Adam’s Construction San Juan Jabloteh chairman Jerry Hospidales has no doubt over the decision to contract former T&T international and Tewksbury Soccer Academy coach Earl “Spiderman” Carter as Director of Coaching/Head Coach for the 2011/2012 TT Pro League season which begins on Friday  August 12. Last Friday the club unveiled Carter who responded to questions over his experience and ability to coach the club, having spent most of his time coaching youth footballers, mainly girls at Tewksbury Soccer Academy in the USA. “After an extensive search (Jabloteh) has decided to engage the services of Earl Carter as its Director of Coaching,” Hospidales said. “Carter brings to the organisation solid credentials which involves not only a past affiliation with the club, but also a wealth of expertise at domestic and international levels.

“We now have the skill and the experience to continue the excellence that we’ve had in the past 37 years. And in the upcoming season we are extremely confident that we will continue to provide the national community with a product that we are extremely proud of. “We are reasonably sure that we are not taking a chance. We believe, looking at his past records, our successes as a club will be maintained. We have great confidence in Carter,” assured the Jabloteh chairman. “Yes I coached girls, but not only girls,” said the 55-year-old former New York Cosmos goalkeeper. “But I’ve also coached boys from the Under-10 to Under-19 level. We must not demonise a coach on his ability to coach because he is coaching girls. In fact, I can tell you that when you are coaching at the youth level, you’re a teacher and when you’re coaching at the senior level you’re now managing. So coaching at the youth level is much more difficult. “So it must not be something negative because I’m coaching girls. We have some of our local coaches that coach the national women’s teams and aren’t they not good? So that’s a fallacy to say such.

“I’ve gotten success with the girls and also had success with the boys. One must not forget that I once had the number one boys team in the whole of the United States,” Carter boasted. Carter explained that his decision to return home and take up the Jabloteh post wasn’t a difficult one. “I’ve always had an interest to come back home,” he said. “I never wanted to leave (T&T) but after representing the “Strike Squad” in 1989 when we failed to qualify for the World Cup, I approached the Ministry of Sport and Youth Affairs telling them that there is an interest for me to go abroad but I’d rather stay and they never saw the need to create an opportunity for me to stay. “I had to leave because there was no other opportunity for me and that’s what I really didn’t want to do. And despite being out there, I was never happy because it was always dissatisfying for me to always see T&T lose against the Americans or other teams in Concacaf knowing that I can make a contribution but it was never created for me.

.
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Offline KND2

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Re: Football Club Owner: TT Edition
« Reply #16 on: July 18, 2011, 09:56:06 AM »
community based is the only way.

get a grounds or staidium in your community where you could charge $5 $10 to come in

Turn it into a lime, but not for big men but lime for children, Build a large playscape on the grounds like they used to have in Kay donna, sell food like ice cream KFC doubbles.

get good half time entertainment.

Develop a program from u8 all the way up to pro with participation in the sport being the key not necessary top players Make it some thing to do on the weekend for each community. Put the childeren from you community on the team even if they not up too par. They will support the team as they get older.


Fact is in TnT there is nothing for people with children to do, People usually go to the mall or movies or somthing

Football would be a better alternative.

But it cannot be about the football it have to be about the lime



Imagine you have the following teams

U8
U9
U10
U11
U12
U13
U14
U15
U16
U17
U18
U19
U23 Reserves (regional TTFF league)

That is 13 teams 20 players per team = 260 players

Each player has 3 other family members = 780 family members

Total = 1040 people


Times 2 because you will have the same set up on the girls side and the boys side

= 2000 People


If 60% of the people show up on a regular basis = 1200.


If any team in PFL had 1200 fans on a regular basis that would be a good start not to mention if away team would bring some fans.

the problem is the Brand nobody associates a PFL game as something to do? A fun time.

You have to change that and change it with the youth all the way as they grow in age, the fan base will grow and it will change.



It takes the right ideas and in TnT they seem to be lacking ideas.

Offline Football supporter

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Re: Football Club Owner: TT Edition
« Reply #17 on: July 18, 2011, 10:57:41 AM »
26 teams (13 boys, 13 girls) = $104,000 for uniforms alone (assuming $100 each, 20 home 20 away per age)

Income from 1200 @ $10 each = $12,000 x 10 home matches = $120,000

Assuming each coach takes two teams, 2 coaches per team x 13 @ $150 per hour (assume 1 x 2 hour training plus 2 hours on matchday = $15,600 per week x 26 weeks = $405,600

Sponsors would provide at most 10 cases water per week. Maybe do a deal on rest. Assuming average cost of water = $3 per bottle x 2080 (2 bottles each per training, 2 per match) = $6240 per week x 26 = $162,240

Assume bus for away matches @ $1,000 per team x 10 away matches = $260,000

Cost     = $931,840
Income = $ 120,000
Defecit  =  $811,840

Each parent would need to contribute $1,504 per child.

None of this includes cost of bouncy castle, entertainment etc or spending money for kids to buy food and drinks.

KND2 I respect your concepts and thoughts, but it is impossible to sustain. Yes, you can cut some corners, but its not workable from a financial perspective. Running 3 youth teams and a reserve team (U23's) is a big drain on the small finances of clubs. But I agree completely that clubs have to involve children in the club, whether that be free match tickets for children attending with a parent or sponsors supplying free tickets for kids.

And the liming idea is good if it can be done in an affordable way.   

Offline Deeks

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Re: Football Club Owner: TT Edition
« Reply #18 on: July 18, 2011, 11:24:37 AM »
Guys, We have to give it to KND2, he comes up with scenarios everyway possible!!!

Offline KND2

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Re: Football Club Owner: TT Edition
« Reply #19 on: July 18, 2011, 01:45:12 PM »
dude

Children could bring their own water,
parents would buy uniform for their children it is just another form of clothes.

Coaching can be volunteer

many parents actually want to coach it is not idea but it can work.

Parents will spend money on their children that is not the problem, you just need to given them a reason to.

if fact the club may make money from youth teams not drain money from the club. you just need to show the "value"

Offline futbolfan

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Re: Football Club Owner: TT Edition
« Reply #20 on: July 18, 2011, 01:55:14 PM »
dude

Children could bring their own water,
parents would buy uniform for their children it is just another form of clothes.

Coaching can be volunteer
many parents actually want to coach it is not idea but it can work.

Parents will spend money on their children that is not the problem, you just need to given them a reason to.

if fact the club may make money from youth teams not drain money from the club. you just need to show the "value"

And dais why we cyah progress....If yuh have fly by night 'volunteers' coaching, yuh cyah expect too much from de product on de field.
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Offline KND2

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Re: Football Club Owner: TT Edition
« Reply #21 on: July 18, 2011, 02:24:07 PM »
this is not about product on the field this is about building a fan based that identify with the club and will be willing to go and watch the games at the Pro level.

in addition clubs can also develop exclusive teams for the top players to develop but much less kids would be involved in this.

This idea is not about better football it is about better fan base.

Offline Deeks

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Re: Football Club Owner: TT Edition
« Reply #22 on: July 18, 2011, 02:37:46 PM »
KND2,
 the spirit of volunteer coaching, at least in my times, is no longer there. TTFF kill all of that. Man does say, you can bring foreign coaches and pay millions and then want we locals to volunteer. Fooooook TTFF.
« Last Edit: July 18, 2011, 02:49:19 PM by Deeks »

Offline Football supporter

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Re: Football Club Owner: TT Edition
« Reply #23 on: July 18, 2011, 02:43:05 PM »
KND, I understand where you're coming from now. You could build affiliations with the club and maybe have a club coach put together a programme for volunteers and the club could cherry pick any talent along the way.

But I feel that if you approach parents and say "you buy the uniforms, you supply the drinks and ice, you coach the kids" they're not gonna be impressed.

I'm not being pessimistic, but I really don't think it would work.

I think the better option is to link with a few "feeder schools" and help by doing a little coaching and maybe pay a $5,000 donation to the school for any player who signs for the club.

Offline Coop's

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Re: Football Club Owner: TT Edition
« Reply #24 on: July 18, 2011, 02:48:54 PM »
dude

Children could bring their own water,
parents would buy uniform for their children it is just another form of clothes.

Coaching can be volunteer
many parents actually want to coach it is not idea but it can work.

Parents will spend money on their children that is not the problem, you just need to given them a reason to.

if fact the club may make money from youth teams not drain money from the club. you just need to show the "value"

And dais why we cyah progress....If yuh have fly by night 'volunteers' coaching, yuh cyah expect too much from de product on de field.
       First of all we can't pay or don't have enough Coaches in T&T to facilitate the amount of teams that want to play Football,in the US it's all about participation as long as kids want to play Football they create a team for you and what you find is some parent volunteer to coach,they have what you call Recreation Leagues that's where the kids who not that serious play,if they find they are not being challenged there they take it to another level,it's not about product on the field,these kids just like the fun of kicking a ball.  

 

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