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Author Topic: La Liga Season 2011-2012  (Read 42634 times)

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Offline Observer

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Re: La Liga Season 2011-2012
« Reply #180 on: January 18, 2012, 07:21:00 PM »
Really Bitter? Really!  ;D The great Real Madrid happy with the Copa Del Rey & being on top of the League.
When in truth Real just lost the League, CL, Super Cup & three straight games to Barca, all of which were in their own yard.
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Offline Bitter

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Re: La Liga Season 2011-2012
« Reply #181 on: January 18, 2012, 07:23:08 PM »
Really Bitter? Really!  ;D The great Real Madrid happy with the Copa Del Rey & being on top of the League.
When in truth Real just lost the League, CL, Super Cup & three straight games to Barca, all of which were in their own yard.

I trying to present a positive spin. They ent loss ALL the games...  ::)
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Offline FF

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Re: La Liga Season 2011-2012
« Reply #182 on: January 18, 2012, 09:24:06 PM »
After one time is two time
THE BEATINGS WILL CONTINUE UNTIL MORALE IMPROVES

Offline kicker

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Re: La Liga Season 2011-2012
« Reply #183 on: January 18, 2012, 09:57:48 PM »
Barca v Real dese days come like watching the same game over and over... As long as they have the same personnel and the same managers, iz bess they doh play - just replay one of the matches on a big screen for everyone tuh watch....and with the amount of times they playing each other these days it kinda getting tiring.

That said we on top of the league and 2-1 eh no score tuh sleep on in a two-legged tie. 

On to the next one.
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Offline Observer

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Re: La Liga Season 2011-2012
« Reply #184 on: January 19, 2012, 07:18:51 AM »
Barca v Real dese days come like watching the same game over and over... As long as they have the same personnel and the same managers, iz bess they doh play - just replay one of the matches on a big screen for everyone tuh watch....and with the amount of times they playing each other these days it kinda getting tiring.

That said we on top of the league and 2-1 eh no score tuh sleep on in a two-legged tie. 

On to the next one.

Well Kicker I have to agree with you. You have to admit that at least it brought some respect to the Copa del Rey, which in the past, is a Cup that no one really took an interest in. Not long ago Atl Madrid only sold 24 pre game tickets for their Copa.
Just once I will like to see Jose send his team out and say allyuh go play, express yuh self and enjoy. Real players look like dem thinking too hard, and playing like a Ferrari with water in the gas tank.
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Offline kicker

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Re: La Liga Season 2011-2012
« Reply #185 on: January 19, 2012, 08:23:38 AM »

Well Kicker I have to agree with you. You have to admit that at least it brought some respect to the Copa del Rey, which in the past, is a Cup that no one really took an interest in. Not long ago Atl Madrid only sold 24 pre game tickets for their Copa.
Just once I will like to see Jose send his team out and say allyuh go play, express yuh self and enjoy. Real players look like dem thinking too hard, and playing like a Ferrari with water in the gas tank.

I hear you aout Jose - not my favorite manager - He's gotten alot of praise but IMO he's just riding on alot of talent -I don't think that he has done too much special with the side so far that another "good" manger wouldn't have done.  IMO Pelligrini ran Barca closer in a way more open matches, and had pretty much the same avg league record as Jose...with less fire power, and more political obstacles. 

Barca under the pep era is really special, and yuh could argue that no amount of management, could beat the chemistry that has been built by their core of (extremely talented) players for years and years, but when yuh watch the two teams on paper, yuh not supposed to have that huge gap in class that we seeing in these match ups...
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Offline Marcos

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Re: La Liga Season 2011-2012
« Reply #186 on: January 19, 2012, 11:41:06 AM »
Allyuh doh study it. Madrid beating dat this year. Mourinho just not gonna tip his hand as the Cop del Rey is essentially a relegation prize. He waiting for the big games - La Liga return and Champions League. At this point he is still experimenting.

When he unleashes the Ronaldo - Di Maria - Kaka - Ozil - Benzema - Higuan combination it go be real trouble.

Each game has been closer in my opinion. The pattern and results have been similar, but Barca getting more and more stressed man. No denying that.
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Offline dinho

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Re: La Liga Season 2011-2012
« Reply #187 on: January 19, 2012, 06:29:00 PM »
Absolutely despicable...

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/SpMhYp0BxOg" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/SpMhYp0BxOg</a>
         

Offline elan

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Re: La Liga Season 2011-2012
« Reply #188 on: January 19, 2012, 10:55:26 PM »
 :-\
<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/blUSVALW_Z4" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/blUSVALW_Z4</a>

Offline Peong

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Re: La Liga Season 2011-2012
« Reply #189 on: January 20, 2012, 08:28:41 AM »
RM need a player who is tough like Pepe but not so damn stupid.
If I was on the board I would make this season his last there.
He's too much of a liability.

Offline kicker

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Re: La Liga Season 2011-2012
« Reply #190 on: January 20, 2012, 08:49:21 AM »
The spirit of Pepe's hand stamp was inexcusable, but lewwe put things in perspective... it was just a mash hand...no real harm done.  Messi shake up he hand and bawl like a man light him on fire, and 2 minutes later was running at men normal... All games if yuh ask me.  That no where in the class of rough tackling that could break man foot or even end a career.  I see Rooney blowin' up he twitter criticising Pepe and I could only shake my head. 

Dem kinda ting does pass in football right through- from intercol all the way up.

 

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Offline Jah Gol

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Re: La Liga Season 2011-2012
« Reply #191 on: January 20, 2012, 09:17:11 AM »
The spirit of Pepe's hand stamp was inexcusable, but lewwe put things in perspective... it was just a mash hand...no real harm done.  Messi shake up he hand and bawl like a man light him on fire, and 2 minutes later was running at men normal... All games if yuh ask me.  That no where in the class of rough tackling that could break man foot or even end a career.  I see Rooney blowin' up he twitter criticising Pepe and I could only shake my head. 

Dem kinda ting does pass in football right through- from intercol all the way up.
What was Messi to do, pretend he didn't get stamped with the heel studs of a football boot ?


Offline Observer

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Re: La Liga Season 2011-2012
« Reply #192 on: January 20, 2012, 09:19:55 AM »
The spirit of Pepe's hand stamp was inexcusable, but lewwe put things in perspective... it was just a mash hand...no real harm done.  Messi shake up he hand and bawl like a man light him on fire, and 2 minutes later was running at men normal... All games if yuh ask me.  That no where in the class of rough tackling that could break man foot or even end a career.  I see Rooney blowin' up he twitter criticising Pepe and I could only shake my head. 

Dem kinda ting does pass in football right through- from intercol all the way up.

 



maybe but for me not acceptable. Ok late tackle, rash tackle ok it happens. Like Carvalho kick down from behind, which in my eyes was a  straight red.

To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead
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Offline Marcos

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Re: La Liga Season 2011-2012
« Reply #193 on: January 20, 2012, 09:20:59 AM »
If a man stepped on his hand while he was pipsin' a ting on the beach you really feel he was reactin so? BIG STEUPS
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Offline kicker

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Re: La Liga Season 2011-2012
« Reply #194 on: January 20, 2012, 10:15:05 AM »
What was Messi to do, pretend he didn't get stamped with the heel studs of a football boot ?

I dunno, but my point is just that it wasn't really that bad.  As I say, the intent was inexcusable but the actual act was kinda bleh.  Yuh know how much times in school boy football man ring my ears, intentionally mash my foot, hit me a quick elbow to my ribs...all kinda gamesmanship roughness in smart - growing up that was part of football - If the referee sees it, yuh pay the price...if not yuh bear the short-lived pain and just keep playing.  These days yuh have thousands of cameras covering the game from every angle, youtube, twitter etc etc, yuh can't get away with anything and that's fine, but it doh change the fact that football could be a dirty game during the run of play, and even in the down moments...and the way grown men in football carry on about stuff like that these days is kinda lame in my opinion - watch rugby or NFL and see the kinda physical treatment dem men is get without blinking an eyelid... Just because the rules different doh mean footballers hadda act like they made of paper...A man sneak in a mash hand and he labeled as despicable? Iz a mash hand that's all!! Seriously think about it.

If he got a red, he deserved it, but he got away with it, and it didn't really alter the game in any way, so lewwe move on...Maybe I old school but that was blown out of proportion in my opinion, and I'd say the same thing if a Barca player did it to a Madrid player. 

« Last Edit: January 20, 2012, 10:17:02 AM by kicker »
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Offline Jah Gol

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Re: La Liga Season 2011-2012
« Reply #195 on: January 20, 2012, 10:22:35 AM »
I can't relate with that at all nah. Messi's reaction was appropriate for stamp I thought.

Offline Peong

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Re: La Liga Season 2011-2012
« Reply #196 on: January 20, 2012, 12:30:35 PM »
Pegs hurt a lot more than rubber soles fellas.
Gettin stepped on hurts like a bitch.  I got nerve damage in one foot from getting stepped on.

Offline Mango Chow!

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Re: La Liga Season 2011-2012
« Reply #197 on: January 20, 2012, 01:41:34 PM »
What was Messi to do, pretend he didn't get stamped with the heel studs of a football boot ?

I dunno, but my point is just that it wasn't really that bad.  As I say, the intent was inexcusable but the actual act was kinda bleh.  Yuh know how much times in school boy football man ring my ears, intentionally mash my foot, hit me a quick elbow to my ribs...all kinda gamesmanship roughness in smart - growing up that was part of football - If the referee sees it, yuh pay the price...if not yuh bear the short-lived pain and just keep playing.  These days yuh have thousands of cameras covering the game from every angle, youtube, twitter etc etc, yuh can't get away with anything and that's fine, but it doh change the fact that football could be a dirty game during the run of play, and even in the down moments...and the way grown men in football carry on about stuff like that these days is kinda lame in my opinion - watch rugby or NFL and see the kinda physical treatment dem men is get without blinking an eyelid... Just because the rules different doh mean footballers hadda act like they made of paper...A man sneak in a mash hand and he labeled as despicable? Iz a mash hand that's all!! Seriously think about it.

If he got a red, he deserved it, but he got away with it, and it didn't really alter the game in any way, so lewwe move on...Maybe I old school but that was blown out of proportion in my opinion, and I'd say the same thing if a Barca player did it to a Madrid player. 



Kicker, I agree with you on the issue of men rolling around and fakin' injury and all d drama queen nonsense, but lemme arkske yuh dis, yuh know how painful it is fuh a man to mash yuh hand wit a football boots on?  Like Jah Gol say, WTF was Messi supposed to do, get up and shake pepe hand with he imps-ness?  But here is what ah doh understand with you as a Madrid fan, yuh goin' een on Messi and sayin' all what yuh say about how he over-react and what not, and yuh even say yuh woulda say d same if was a Madrid player...so wha happ'm, yuh miss de action when pepe was tryin' to act like he had get shoot in he face and was rollin' around on d pitch fuh about 5 minutes or wha? And, in HIS case, he really had zero cause for his semantics because I don't even think anyboy touched him, far less stamp on he hand.  Be fair nuh. Please.


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Offline kicker

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Re: La Liga Season 2011-2012
« Reply #198 on: January 20, 2012, 01:48:25 PM »
Pegs hurt a lot more than rubber soles fellas.
Gettin stepped on hurts like a bitch.  I got nerve damage in one foot from getting stepped on.

lol pegs vs rubber soles was never the point so thanks, but what you're saying is obvious. 

I not saying that Messi didn't feel any pain - just pointing out that it obviously wasn't that bad, and by that token the Pepe hand step is being blown out of porportion.  Other than the spirit in which it was intended, it was really a minor offense in the whole scheme of things...

You and Jah Gol focussing the wrong thing as far as my post is concerned. 
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Offline kicker

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Re: La Liga Season 2011-2012
« Reply #199 on: January 20, 2012, 01:57:38 PM »

Kicker, I agree with you on the issue of men rolling around and fakin' injury and all d drama queen nonsense, but lemme arkske yuh dis, yuh know how painful it is fuh a man to mash yuh hand wit a football boots on?  Like Jah Gol say, WTF was Messi supposed to do, get up and shake pepe hand with he imps-ness?  But here is what ah doh understand with you as a Madrid fan, yuh goin' een on Messi and sayin' all what yuh say about how he over-react and what not, and yuh even say yuh woulda say d same if was a Madrid player...so wha happ'm, yuh miss de action when pepe was tryin' to act like he had get shoot in he face and was rollin' around on d pitch fuh about 5 minutes or wha? And, in HIS case, he really had zero cause for his semantics because I don't even think anyboy touched him, far less stamp on he hand.  Be fair nuh. Please.

I was talking about Pepe's stamp... the point I was making had nothing to do with Pepe play-acting.

If you want my view on Pepe's play-acting, yes it was very laughable...didn't think it was worth debating or discussing because it was so obviously comical and embarrassing.

Again, the Messi reaction (over-reacting or not) is not the point - point is despite the roll and agony, he was back on his feet playing his normal game short moments after - i.e. Pepe's hand mash was barely a game changer, and all the labels that being thrown at him because of this is a bit much if you ask me... but that's just my opinion.  I think his reputation for being rough in his challenges and borderline insane at times is preceding him on this one...
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Offline Mango Chow!

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Re: La Liga Season 2011-2012
« Reply #200 on: January 20, 2012, 02:16:07 PM »

Kicker, I agree with you on the issue of men rolling around and fakin' injury and all d drama queen nonsense, but lemme arkske yuh dis, yuh know how painful it is fuh a man to mash yuh hand wit a football boots on?  Like Jah Gol say, WTF was Messi supposed to do, get up and shake pepe hand with he imps-ness?  But here is what ah doh understand with you as a Madrid fan, yuh goin' een on Messi and sayin' all what yuh say about how he over-react and what not, and yuh even say yuh woulda say d same if was a Madrid player...so wha happ'm, yuh miss de action when pepe was tryin' to act like he had get shoot in he face and was rollin' around on d pitch fuh about 5 minutes or wha? And, in HIS case, he really had zero cause for his semantics because I don't even think anyboy touched him, far less stamp on he hand.  Be fair nuh. Please.

I was talking about Pepe's stamp... the point I was making had nothing to do with Pepe play-acting.

If you want my view on Pepe's play-acting, yes it was very laughable...didn't think it was worth debating or discussing because it was so obviously comical and embarrassing.

Again, the Messi reaction (over-reacting or not) is not the point - point is despite the roll and agony, he was back on his feet playing his normal game short moments after - i.e. Pepe's hand mash was barely a game changer, and all the labels that being thrown at him because of this is a bit much if you ask me... but that's just my opinion.  I think his reputation for being rough in his challenges and borderline insane at times is preceding him on this one...

I know it had nothing to do with his play-acting, but under the broader issue of affecting the credibility of the game, especially when you refer to rugby and the nfl (the latter of which is beginning to take a page out of football's book with the play-acting) it belongs in the conversation.  Whether or not Messi got up moments later is of no importance, IMHO, because that's how pain works sometimes.  A knock or injury can give you a sharp pain that subsides quickly, or a terrible one that doesn't.  Just because Messi got up within a few moments doesn't mean he was not feeling pain in he hand, and again, I will refer you to actually try gettin' yuh hand stepped on with a pair of boots, rubber or not, and tell meh dat shit doh hurt....don't tell me you are not going to react.


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Offline kicker

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Re: La Liga Season 2011-2012
« Reply #201 on: January 20, 2012, 02:31:48 PM »
Ok cool... It hurt (was never debating that) and he reacted to the pain...

Again, not my point, but I hear you...

« Last Edit: January 20, 2012, 02:59:33 PM by kicker »
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Offline Raul

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Re: La Liga Season 2011-2012
« Reply #202 on: January 20, 2012, 07:32:07 PM »
Ok, with 1 madrid win in 9 el clasicos over the last 14 months (compared to Barca's 5 and 3 draws), and on behalf of all madridistas on this site, I officially concede and acknowledge Barca's dominance over us.

Our strategy for the rest of the season will be (a) hope for a 2-0 loss (or better) in the Copa return leg, (b) win every game in la liga except the away game to Barca and (c) hope not to bounce up in th champions league.

Sincerely

Raul

Offline 100% Barataria

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Re: La Liga Season 2011-2012
« Reply #203 on: January 20, 2012, 09:23:08 PM »
Best Madridista post yet Raul  :beermug:
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Offline kicker

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Re: La Liga Season 2011-2012
« Reply #204 on: January 21, 2012, 11:01:52 AM »
Best Madridista post yet Raul  :beermug:

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Re: La Liga Season 2011-2012
« Reply #205 on: January 21, 2012, 01:47:30 PM »
I think Real's reputation has been damaged since Jose became manager not just from this match.  I think the best manager they had in recent times was Pelligreni (excuse spelling).

Posted by
Sid Lowe in Madrid
Thursday 19 January 2012 08.50 EST guardian.co.uk


Real Madrid damage image, reputation and status in defeat to Barcelona

Madrid's ill-tempered one-dimensional showing in the clásico was evidence of regression, not progression under Mourinho
 
As José Mourinho prepared to leave the Santiago Bernabéu press room and the clock ticked towards one in the morning, he had one last message to deliver. "Victory," he said for the third time, "has many fathers; defeat has only one and that is me. That's the way football is and I am used to it." Then he added a request: "Hit me, not my players – leave them alone." In part, he got what he wanted but only in part. They did indeed hit Mourinho but they hit his players too.

Players? Player. Two things dominated the post-match agenda: Mourinho's Madrid losing the game and Pepe losing his head. There was a familiar feel to both of them. Pepe is a repeat offender and so are Madrid. They lost another clásico; Pep Guardiola is unbeaten in seven trips to the Santiago Bernabéu, winning five of them. Since Mourinho took over at Madrid, he has not once been able to defeat Barcelona in 90 minutes. The solitary victory came via an extra-time winner in last season's Copa del Rey final. Madrid also lost something less tangible. Image, reputation, status.

When Madrid won the Copa del Rey, it appeared to be a stepping stone towards a real challenge on Barcelona. Defeat in the Champions League last season was justified with Mourinho's conspiratorial discourse – and Pepe's supposedly unlucky red card. The Spanish Super Copa at the start of this season offered up a Madrid side closer than ever to Barcelona, despite a 5-4 aggregate defeat. But now the sensation is one of regression not progression.

Defeated in the league last month, defeated here, Madrid offered virtually nothing. A midfield designed only to stop Barcelona – in which Xabi Alonso was nudged right, away from the area where he could truly influence the game – that did not stop Barcelona and certainly did not attack them. It was built around Pepe. If he defined Madrid's approach, most did not like what they saw. "Pepe returned to the midfield and brought out his entire repertoire of misdemeanours," said AS. One in particular would stand out, when he deliberately trod on Messi's hand. It was not as if, assault aside, he had helped much, either.

Mourinho complained about one of the goals his side conceded, describing it as "not normal". He also contradicted his 'blame me' message to snap: "Some players who normally play well played badly." And yet he admitted that part of his plan consisted simply of running the clock down. By the final whistle Barcelona's superiority was overwhelming. Madrid had 28% of the possession in their own stadium and just one shot on target.

And, asked the media, for what? For what Marca's cover described as "the never-ending story". "Mou," it added, "still hasn't found the right key and he is left without excuses." AS saw Mourinho "coming up against the wall". Its cover was clear: "Madrid offered dirtiness; Barcelona offered football."

Santiago Segurola wrote: "Madrid committed treason against their own history. Mourinho threw away all Madrid's history and instead insisted on a lamentable match from which he got no benefit for Madrid. It was all bad: the result, the play, the violence." In Público, Kike Marín saw the white flags by fans before the game as the perfect metaphor for Mourinho's management. El País led on "Madrid sully themselves for nothing". AS's editor Alfredo Relaño asked: "If you're just going to keep losing what's the need to lose your decorum too?"

The lasting image of this game was not so much defeat but Pepe's apparently calculated and cowardly stamp on Leo Messi. He was booked for a bad challenge on Sergio Busquets in the 17th minute and the surprise was that it was the only yellow card he saw. Ricardo Carvalho was fortunate to escape greater punishment too, for a wild hack at Messi. Xavi Hernández described Pepe's stamp as "senseless" and "lamentable". Carles Puyol called it "not normal" and insisted that something "has to be done". Mourinho hid behind the fact that he had not seen the incident but, pushed on the issue, admitted that if Pepe had deliberately trodden on Messi's hand that would be "censorable".

If Mourinho did not see it, everyone else did – except the referee, César Muñiz Fernández. TV cameras showed the incident clearly and Pepe is on the cover of all four sports dailies. Marca called it "unacceptable" and "shameful", its editorial admitting: "The episode with [Getafe midfielder Javi] Casquero cannot be seen as isolated, but the sad reality. Pepe is not worthy of Real Madrid."

As for the Catalan daily El Mundo Deportivo, there was indignation and enjoyment. Its cover talked of "Heroes and villains: Barcelona imposed their football on Madrid's violence". "Pepe, a danger to the public," the paper added, "was the greatest expression of a Madrid side that was impotent and out of control." Inside, Fernando Polo insisted: "Good had beaten evil." And that, he said, "is not melodrama, it is the truth: Barcelona wanted the ball and attacked and beat a Madrid side that has a complex, a violent team lost in its own lack of control and adrift thanks to Mourinho – the man that was supposed to end Barcelona's hegemony."


 

Offline Toppa

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Re: La Liga Season 2011-2012
« Reply #206 on: January 21, 2012, 11:25:16 PM »
Leh Sid Lowe hul he Cule arse.
www.westindiantube.com

Check it out - it real bad!

Offline Toppa

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Re: La Liga Season 2011-2012
« Reply #207 on: January 21, 2012, 11:26:50 PM »
Ok, with 1 madrid win in 9 el clasicos over the last 14 months (compared to Barca's 5 and 3 draws), and on behalf of all madridistas on this site, I officially concede and acknowledge Barca's dominance over us.

Our strategy for the rest of the season will be (a) hope for a 2-0 loss (or better) in the Copa return leg, (b) win every game in la liga except the away game to Barca and (c) hope not to bounce up in th champions league.

Sincerely

Raul

Ditto
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Check it out - it real bad!

giggsy11

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Re: La Liga Season 2011-2012
« Reply #208 on: January 23, 2012, 05:40:37 PM »
All may not be well in paradise!

Sid Lowe-Uk Guardian

Mourinho meltdown and hints of civil war at Real Madrid
The Portuguese wants to know who plunged the knife into his back after a training ground conversation was leaked to the press


There were just hours to go until Real Madrid's match against Athletic Bilbao and Madrid were about to finish the first half of the season five points clear at the top of the table with 16 wins in 19 games. Favourites to win the title, they were about to score their 67th goal and Cristiano Ronaldo would soon be on 23, one ahead of Leo Messi. But it was not about that all that. Not now and not later. It would not even be about the 4-1 win – a brilliant game, open, exciting and end-to-end, between two sides that can be great to watch. The focus was elsewhere. Even José Mourinho's focus was elsewhere. The team meeting at Madrid's Mirasierra Suites Hotel wasn't so much about formation as about information.

Mourinho wanted to know one thing above all and he wanted the players to know that he would find out. Who had plunged the knife in his back? Who had leaked a conversation from the training ground? Who was the mole? Mourinho claimed to have banned newspapers from the team hotel – "there is internet, you know", one player said with a smile later – and insisted that he had not read Marca on Sunday morning, but of course he had. Few coaches are so aware of the media as Mourinho, a man with his own press officer, a man who is delivered a dossier of cuttings every morning; one for whom the message is part of the match. Mourinho had read it, so had everyone else and it did not make for happy reading.

Marca's cover showed Mourinho and Sergio Ramos face to face. Word for word, they reproduced a conversation between the two men, and Iker Casillas, at Real Madrid's Valdebebas training ground on Friday morning – two days after Madrid, playing ultra-defensively, had again been beaten by Barcelona; two days after Ramos had noted: "We follow the coach's tactics. Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't." According to Marca, the conversation started with Mourinho turning towards Ramos and saying: "You [plural] killed me in the mixed zone." To which Ramos replied: "No, mister, you only read what it says in the papers not everything we said."

Mourinho replied: "Sure, because you Spaniards have been world champions and your friends in the media protect you … and because the goalkeeper …" At that point there is a shout from Casillas, training 30 metres away: "Eh, mister, round here you say things to our faces, eh!"

Another part of the conversation starts with Mourinho saying: "Where were you on the first goal [against Barcelona], Sergio?"
"Marking Piqué"

"Well, you should have been marking Puyol."

"Yes, but they were blocking us off [using basketball style screens] with Piqué and we decided to change the marking."

"What? So now you're playing at being coach?"

"No," replies Ramos, "but depending on the situation in the game, sometimes you have to change the marking. Because you've never been a player, you don't know that that sometimes happens."

Suddenly, the lid had been lifted. Just a little, but lifted. The conversation – which was impeccably polite, Ramos even using the formal form of "you" – revealed Mourinho's irritation at the Spaniards and his belief that they are protected by the press; by extension, it hinted at his suspicion that they are the ones responsible for the leaks to the media – this report came in the context of a year in which El País's Diego Torres has written a number of stories about events within the dressing room and in a week in which Marca had correctly reported that Angel Di María would miss the clásico, despite the coach's attempts to keep that quiet.

From a player's point of view, it revealed the one flaw in Mourinho's long career: he was never a player. Somehow, he just doesn't know what they do. That is a feeling exacerbated by a mutual lack of comprehension, a sense of distrust and division, and by poor results against Barcelona. It also revealed something else, one of the greatest obstacles that Mourinho has encountered: Madrid is not Inter or Chelsea or Porto, the Spanish media are not the English or Italian media, and Spanish players are not the same as English ones, or Italians or Portuguese. One of Mourinho's greatest and most often lauded skill – dressing-room relations – has not been as easy to apply here.

It was not just the story itself that was interesting but the fact that it was published, how it was published and when it was published. After all, other stories have been written before. They were more easily (which is not to say honestly) dismissed; this story was not. The detail, the precision in the quotes, the specifics of it; the fearlessness with which it was put out and the silence with which it was met. Context is key, especially when the relationship between certain sections of the media and certain parts of the club is so instrumental. The shift was palpable. Columnists who were among Mourinho's most aggressive defenders had repositioned themselves. In the aftermath of the Barcelona defeat that was always likely. After Pepe's behaviour in the clásico – and the laughable, hostage-style video apology he was obliged to offer up on Thursday – it was more likely yet. But still the move was telling, hinting at a political realignment. And for Mourinho, that could be the most worrying thing of all.

Throughout Sunday, the story was chewed over; fans debated it, the media too. Not just the comments on the cover but the ones inside: the player complaining that Mourinho will not let them talk; the player insisting: "you got annoyed with Iker because he apologised to [Barcelona's] Xavi [after the Super Copa clásico], but what did Pepe do in that video?"; the player complaining that "it's impossible to win a game with eight defenders". The day before, El País had reported on the tensions between Mourinho and some players over the tactics; some players demanding a more expansive approach, Mourinho reproaching them for doing so.

The tension at the hotel grew. So, everywhere else, did the theories. It was hard not to go all conspiratorial. Who could it have been? And was Mourinho barking up the wrong tree? He was not the only one turning detective; everyone else was too. The assumption that it absolutely had to be a player seems flawed. Players have friends and agents. So do managers. And teams have people around them. Lots of people. Clubs do too, at all sorts of levels. Information is delivered in various forms and the form here was telling – this did not smell like whispers but something much more tangible. Marca's presentation of the conversations suggested not just that they had a story but that they had the proof that they had a story. Madrid, a club usually quick to deny, said nothing. After Sunday night's game, Mourinho would refuse to deny it. Three players would come out with the exact same phrase: "We're not here to say whether it's true or not." Anyone would think they are told what to say in the mixed zone.


Madrid versus Athletic Bilbao was presented as a plebiscite. On defeat to Barcelona. On Madrid's image under Mourinho. On the division – on whose side you were on, players or coach? On the signings, now down to Mourinho and of which only the substitute José Callejón has really succeeded. On Mourinho himself. By Sunday night, some at the Santiago Bernabéu decided, quite rightly, that the crime was not so much the leak as the content of the leak: the tension inside the dressing room, the defeats, the image of the club. And who was responsible for that? Mourinho. The question was what would happen next, where would this end?


The game was scoured for clues – was it significant that Ronaldo turned and gave Xabi Alonso a look that could kill? – and so was the starting lineup. Every action was analysed, counter-analysed and, let's face it, probably over-analysed. Mourinho left out five players who had played against Barcelona. Coentrão, Pepe, Carvalho, Lass, Higuaín, and Altintop. He included six who hadn't played against Barcelona: Ozil, Kaká, Marcelo, Arbeloa, Varane. Even Esteban Granero got a game. The lineup could not be any different; the polar opposite of what Mourinho had done in midweek: for virtually every hard-working but limited player taken out, a talented ball-player had been put in. You could see meaning in everything. Three Portuguese players had been taken out, two Spaniards put in. This was the team that some players had apparently demanded.


Had Mourinho given in? Or was he sticking them on the pitch knowing that it was almost a no-lose situation for him: if Madrid won, they won; if they lost, he could say: "see, that's what you get when we play your way." Had he also prevented the players from "making the bed" for him? They couldn't very well effectively down tools and turn him over precisely on the day that he did what they wanted. Or was he simply preparing for Wednesday night when there would now be no option but to attack Barcelona? Mourinho, normally so active, only left his bench once in the entire game – a game that had five goals, two penalties, a red card, and a couple more penalty shouts. Was that a clue too? Was he fearful of how the fans might react to him? Was he hiding? Or trying to keep a low profile? Was he trying to show his disconformities with the side he (?) had chosen, a kind of "this is your team, not mine"?


Or was he, as he insisted afterwards, just so confident that he never felt the need to get up and correct anything? Even though Madrid went 1-0 down and Athletic were the better side for the first half an hour.


There were many questions and few answers – least of all from Mourinho. There were, though, hints. Glimpses of a guerra civil. No more than hints perhaps, but hints nonetheless. When Granero was taken off on 72 minutes, the player who more than anyone else represented a shift in approach – the Madrid that Mourinho had turned his back on and some Spaniards had wanted – got a massive ovation. And then, with 10 minutes to go, it happened. The fans who had chanted Mourinho's name all season – something that has never happened for a coach before – chanted it once more.

Well, some of them did. More of them did not. In fact, they did the opposite. The Ultra Sur began chanting Mourinho's name. And the rest of the stadium – 30%? 50%? 80%? – whistled their disapproval.

It was not so much an attack on Mourinho per se as an attack on the decision to chant his name, to do it now, in this context, and with this backdrop. It was a symbol of disapproval of those that did so too – the Ultras who had chanted "Pepe, kill him!" and "Journalists, terrorists!" Divisions at Real Madrid had been laid bare. This time among the fans. And there was no escaping that there they were: whistles. Win on Wednesday and all will be right with Madrid's world again; Mourinho will be a genius again. Now, he is not. This has been perhaps his most difficult week as Madrid coach. Not that he admitted as much.

"Difficult? Why?" the coach asked. "I lost a game on Wednesday, I prepared one on Friday. Today we won. Tomorrow is Monday. Why is that hard? It is the first time that I have been whistled but it's not a problem. There is a first time for almost everything. If I had been whistled at Chelsea where they don't even whistle the opposition manager, it would be a problem. Here they whistled Zidane and Ronaldo and now Cristiano Ronaldo. This stadium whistles the best in the world – why shouldn't it whistle me?"















































































































« Last Edit: January 23, 2012, 07:52:21 PM by Giggsy11 »

Offline Raul

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Re: La Liga Season 2011-2012
« Reply #209 on: January 23, 2012, 07:01:05 PM »
Yeah dread, that glare from cr7 to Alonso was frightening... Even I get uneasy...

 

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