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Offline Preacher

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Re: Limited State of Emergency....
« Reply #1050 on: October 03, 2011, 11:20:43 PM »

One of the worrying side effects is that people are now very used to living under a curfew and once we return to normal, it could be a shock to the system.

And we still don't know the reason for the SOE. Govt talk about preventing a situation that would make 1990 look like a tea party, but we still don't know what is was and we still haven't seen any post SOE plans to combat crime.


FS I hear you.  I'm not sure how much shock it's going to be to people.  The only shock that's coming is how many bandits are going to get kill if they start back with they stuff.  But law abiding people ain't getting no shock.  Night is for sleep day is for work.  As far as I'm concern we like to much party and we skin teeth at slackness.  When the main stream populace don't hold itself accountable they become food for wicked men because it's a communal endorsement.   Low morality and ethics breeds anarchy(Lawlessness).  Why?  Laws are built on morality and ethics.  So if people don't respect the laws it will not protect them. This ain't rocket science.   And my reference is for EVERYONE from JACK, PNM ,UNC ,PP to the customs officer.   To turn this ship we need to vote in the right leadership and brace. 
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Re: Limited State of Emergency....
« Reply #1051 on: October 04, 2011, 12:20:00 AM »

One of the worrying side effects is that people are now very used to living under a curfew and once we return to normal, it could be a shock to the system.

And we still don't know the reason for the SOE. Govt talk about preventing a situation that would make 1990 look like a tea party, but we still don't know what is was and we still haven't seen any post SOE plans to combat crime.


FS I hear you.  I'm not sure how much shock it's going to be to people.  The only shock that's coming is how many bandits are going to get kill if they start back with they stuff.  But law abiding people ain't getting no shock.  Night is for sleep day is for work.  As far as I'm concern we like to much party and we skin teeth at slackness.  When the main stream populace don't hold itself accountable they become food for wicked men because it's a communal endorsement.   Low morality and ethics breeds anarchy(Lawlessness).  Why?  Laws are built on morality and ethics.  So if people don't respect the laws it will not protect them. This ain't rocket science.   And my reference is for EVERYONE from JACK, PNM ,UNC ,PP to the customs officer.   To turn this ship we need to vote in the right leadership and brace. 

I understand your sentiments, but you cannot group everyone together. I enjoy taking a lime, and this curfew means that I can't enjoy a drink with friends in the way I used to. By the time you get in from work, eat, bathe etc its past 8pm. This means that I wouldn't reach town until past 8.30 and bars close at 9.30, so its just not worth it. Of course, I could go straight from work, eat out etc, but the reality is this isn't practical. Also, my boys used to sweat until 10pm and then take a lime. I don't believe any of my friends suffer from low morality or ethics. I also enjoy seeing live bands at places like Woodford Cafe which currently isn't possible and take my girl to a club. Again, I don't see this as morally or ethically unacceptable.

Even those people who choose to sleep around or spend their money in casino's aren't acting illegally. I know I am being controversial by saying this, but suppose an effect of the SOE was that people could only attend churches or mosques between the hours of 2pm and 5pm or that services could only last 20 minutes. Religeous people would be in uproar. I don't choose to attend religeous services, but I do choose to attend bars. Does this make me morally bankrupt? I choose how I want to live my life and as long as it hurts no one, I should be allowed to do as I like. People like your mother have a different lifestyle than me and they are receiving a positive effect from the SOE, and I am pleased for them. However, people like me are not allowed to live the life we choose. I'm sometimes still working until 9pm and maybe somedays I don't start work until 4pm. Daytime is no good to me, I want to relax at night. One of my friends works from 9am until 8pm, why shouldn't he be allowed to take a beer at night?

So as much as I appreciate that the SOE is curtailing criminal activity, for a lot of people it is curtailing their social life. To many thats no big deal and a price worth paying, but again, I say would the same be said if it was peoples religeous worship that was being curtailed?
 

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Re: Limited State of Emergency....
« Reply #1052 on: October 04, 2011, 04:37:32 AM »
I keep hearing newspaper reports of "gang members" being released by graps almost every day.....hhhhhmmmm.......when I find the time I'll find the articles.
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Offline Bourbon

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Re: Limited State of Emergency....
« Reply #1053 on: October 04, 2011, 08:03:54 AM »
http://www.trinidadexpress.com/commentaries/Managing_crime_with_a_curfew_-130894898.html

Many people have been calling for a removal of the curfew because of the detrimental effect on the national economy. As one person put it—the curfew is crippling an already stagnant economy. On the other hand, some people say when the curfew hours were reduced, crime went back up so there is justification in maintaining a curfew or even in returning to the more restrictive hours. The Minister of National Security has stated that the curfew is being reviewed and there is even a possibility that it could be removed.

Curfew Orders

It is not the first time that imposing a curfew has been utilised as a means of curbing crime. In some countries, a court is empowered with the right to sentence offenders to a curfew order as part of a sentence in lieu of a term of imprisonment. Persons are allowed to stay at home but must be in by specified times, such as 8 p.m.

In the UK, for instance, at one time courts could impose "stand alone" curfew sentences, where a person had to remain in one specified place during certain times of up to 12 hours. Now that has been changed so that the curfew is part of a more complex community sentence, including electronic monitoring as well as other requirements such as the performance of work.

A curfew order in the countries which have them are however part of a sentence imposed on specific people who have been convicted of crimes. In the case of the curfew here in T&T, it is imposed in areas throughout Trinidad so that for all intents and purposes it is treated as if it were nationwide. The police themselves have even asked (wrongly) businesses to close in areas that are outside the curfew. People in authority have taken it upon themselves to warn citizens in non-curfew areas to remain inside even if they are outside the curfew areas.

Undesirable conditions

As I have previously said, living under curfew conditions is not a natural or desirable way to exist. It is almost an admission of national immaturity. The apparent reduction in violent crime in the last six weeks or so can be no excuse for calling for the resumption of more restrictive curfew hours or the maintenance of the curfew much longer.

We have individual rights and while the Constitution allows for some infringement to the extent that we do not affect others' rights and on the grounds of national security, the latter is in exceptional circumstances.

I am not here querying the necessity for calling the current State of Emergency. Assuming the Government did need to do so to avert an unknown and unnamed crisis—well it has been averted, hasn't it? One cannot, therefore, expect an entire country to continue in this state just in case there is a relapse, so to speak. If that were the case, then the nation would have to be under a State of Emergency and curfew forever. This is why I do not accept the contention that because people feel safer under emergency conditions this is a justification for continuing with the State of Emergency, and by extension the curfew, indefinitely. Because I feel safer in my house does not and cannot mean that I will or should remain locked in at all times.

Further, this is contrary to the very spirit of an "emergency". An emergency cannot be ongoing. It is a "serious, unexpected and potentially dangerous situation requiring immediate action", according to the dictionary meaning of the word. That situation allows rights to be suspended for the time needed to deal with the emergency.

It may well be as the Prime Minister claims the State of Emergency period has/will give us the opportunity to reclaim our country. The security forces have had that opportunity for nearly six weeks. If they have not done so by now, then it is debatable whether continuing much further with our suspension of rights will do so.

Serious crime

As for the contention that serious crime has decreased during this time—well, what do you expect? Once the police ranks are doubled with the Defence Force; the police have greater powers of arrest; there was a hiatus on public meetings; and we were under curfew restrictions, it would have been amazing if there were no reduction in crime.

The fact that serious crime has picked up again merely demonstrates that people adapt and among them are criminals. If we continued with the State of Emergency and curfew for another year, before the end of that year it is more than probable that even then the crime rate would be back to where it was—if other measures are not put in place that can control crime.

We are not in a state of war, as currently exists in some countries in the world where dangerous and life-threatening situations abound. That would be the only rationale for continuing with a State of Emergency for any extended period of time.

In short, therefore, a State of Emergency can only be for a limited time, else it offends against its very nature. The apparent reduction in crime will not continue. Citizens' rights that are affected by the State of Emergency should not be suspended indefinitely because of the fact that some citizens feel safer now. The Government, having averted the crisis it claimed led to the calling of a State of Emergency, would be justified in reconsidering that strategy. A national State of Emergency cannot be a crime-fighting tool for ordinary criminal activity.

We have had a reprieve from violent crime. Now is the time to return to normalcy of everyday living; to national maturity and to rescuing our economy. Start by terminating the curfew.

• Dana S Seetahal is a former

independent senator.
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Offline elan

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Re: Limited State of Emergency....
« Reply #1054 on: October 04, 2011, 08:11:10 AM »
Emergency of no use—Rowley

Published: Tue, 2011-10-04 21:17
Richard Lord

 
 Leader of the Opposition Dr Keith Rowley yesterday renewed his call for the immediate end to the state of emergency, which he said was serving no useless purpose. He said: “The state of emergency, as a response to fighting criminal activity in T&T, has outlived any potential usefulness.” He said the Government was “preserving and maintaining an unnecessary state of emergency so as to have a political advantage on T&T.” Rowley said that during a news conference at his Charles Street, Port-of-Spain, office yesterday. “We are calling on the Government to cease and desist immediately. There is no need for our country to be under a state of emergency. The Government must end the curfew immediately. It does not relate to any crime-fighting,” Rowley added.

He said the police could continue its work without a state of emergency. “And as of today, the Government cannot justify why we have to have regulations that curtail other normal, democratic activity. “The Government is abusing its authority and it is using the Police Service for political purposes,” Rowley added. He said almost half of the people arrested and charged under the Anti-Gang Act have been freed as the police were unable to provide evidence to support their cases. Rowley said the legislation should be amended as soon as possible to prevent abuse. He said that must be done because the police have been “picking up people and taking them to court with insufficient or no evidence at all.”

Rowley said the Anti-Gang Act should be amended to allow police evidence to be reviewed by the Director of Public Prosecutions (DPP). He said if that was done there would be no repeat of people being arrested and charged and being set free by the courts for a lack of supporting evidence. He said the law was approved on the expectation that the police would present evidence to support the cases in court. Rowley also called for the immediate resignation of the  National Security Minister, who claimed the state of emergency was imposed on August 21 because of a specific threat to the State that was far worse then the 1990 attempted coup.

Rowley said Prime Minister Kamla Persad-Bissessar was subsequently quoted as saying she was not aware of any such threat. “This is not a case of two beer cans falling on somebody’s feet, you know. This is a state of emergency,” he added. He said all of the people detained under the state of emergency could have been held without it. He said most of the people were detained for traffic and maintenance and other outstanding warrants. Rowley said the emergency was “hampering political activity and labour activity.” He predicted that once the emergency continued into December, many people would continue to lose their jobs and business also would be affected negatively.
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Offline Football supporter

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Re: Limited State of Emergency....
« Reply #1055 on: October 04, 2011, 08:12:39 AM »
Like this (not Rowley...haven't read that one yet!) ...very sensible

Offline elan

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Re: Limited State of Emergency....
« Reply #1056 on: October 04, 2011, 08:23:08 AM »
I keep hearing newspaper reports of "gang members" being released by graps almost every day.....hhhhhmmmm.......when I find the time I'll find the articles.


No charges for 121


By Jensen LaVende jensen.lavende@trinidadexpress.com
Story Updated: Sep 28, 2011 at 11:55 PM ECT



OF the 449 people arrested under the Anti-Gang legislation a total of 236 people have been charged while more than half that number being released by police without a charge being laid against them.

This was disclosed yesterday by Public Information Officer of the Police Service, ASP Joanne Archie during the police daily press briefing yesterday held at the Police Administration Building, Sackville Street, Port of Spain.

Archie said of the 449 people held, minus the four held over the weekend, 92 were charged with other offences which are not gang related.

She added 28 of the 236 charged were released, following the intervention of the Director of Public Prosecutions Roger Gaspard and 121 released without being charged. According to an Express tally 31 people arrested have been released so far.

Archie also informed members of the media that 40 people have been charged in connection with the 112 guns and 12,330 rounds of ammunition with 28 magazines, which have been recovered since the start of the State of Emergency on August 21.

Twelve people have been charged with murder so far while a total of 56 were arrested in connection with homicides Archie said, adding the rest were released except four who are still assisting police with their investigations. All of the 345 people held on enquiries have since been released save and except for two people.

Archie said the number of people released in connection with other offences, serious and drug related offences, could not be determined as she did not have the statistics on how many of them were denied bail, pleaded guilty or were reprimanded and discharged. She stated, however, that they would have all appeared in court already.

Also speaking at the press briefing was Director of Public Affairs of the Police Service Sharon Lee Assang, who informed the media there have been 15 reported cases of abuse by police reported to the Police Complaints Authority since the start of the State of Emergency. She added seven investigations have been initiated so far.

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Re: Limited State of Emergency....
« Reply #1057 on: October 04, 2011, 09:49:28 AM »
Let the gullible folks who this government bamboozle into believing that the police need a SOE to fight crime keep calling for its extension rather than the exact opposite!!

Anyway this is what the majority voted for and you tend to get what you vote for!!  :thumbsup:
« Last Edit: October 04, 2011, 09:51:17 AM by Socapro »
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Offline weary1969

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Re: Limited State of Emergency....
« Reply #1058 on: October 04, 2011, 09:50:54 AM »
Let the gullible folks who this government bamboozle into believing that the police need a SOE to fight crime keep calling for its extension rather than the exact opposite!!

Anyway this is what they voted for and you get what you vote for!!  :thumbsup:

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Re: Limited State of Emergency....
« Reply #1059 on: October 04, 2011, 10:46:07 AM »
Love this woman unabashedly... and it's not because I agree with her the vast majority of times.  Her handle on the legal principles, the clarity of her logic... and of her writing... very, very impressive.

http://www.trinidadexpress.com/commentaries/Managing_crime_with_a_curfew_-130894898.html

...This is why I do not accept the contention that because people feel safer under emergency conditions this is a justification for continuing with the State of Emergency, and by extension the curfew, indefinitely. Because I feel safer in my house does not and cannot mean that I will or should remain locked in at all times...


This above is why I stop responding to some of the comments made in support of the SoE.  It is such an absurd, illogical, simplistic, knee-jerk position to take in using the abatement of crime as a justification for using/extending the SoE.  A reduction in crime is a logical extension of any process by which you curtail the freedom of people to move about, particularly compounded with an increased law enforcement process.  It is only tangentially related to the SoE and not at all indicative of effective governance or policing.  It is a distressing symbol of intellectual immaturity that so many supposedly educated Trinbagonians would find this acceptable... which is separate from the 'national immaturity' Seetahal speaks of, in addressing the attitude that the only way we can function 'normally' is by government curtailing our individual rights.

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Re: Limited State of Emergency....
« Reply #1060 on: October 04, 2011, 11:03:19 AM »
:-[ :-[ :shameonyou: :shameonyou: :shameonyou: :shameonyou: :-[ :-[

Boasting about a reduction in crime during a State of Emergency is like gloating about losing weight during a famine!!
« Last Edit: October 04, 2011, 01:13:27 PM by Socapro »
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Offline boss

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Re: Limited State of Emergency....
« Reply #1061 on: October 04, 2011, 11:12:09 AM »
Uncle Errol: Things are not improving in Trinidad and Tobago, the authorities are making more and more of a pappyshow of themselves and our country. THEY HAVE FAILED US!
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Re: Limited State of Emergency....
« Reply #1062 on: October 04, 2011, 11:21:10 AM »
It is a distressing symbol of intellectual immaturity that so many supposedly educated Trinbagonians would find this acceptable... which is separate from the 'national immaturity' Seetahal speaks of, in addressing the attitude that the only way we can function 'normally' is by government curtailing our individual rights.

is only now yuh realize we is simple minded simpletons of d highest order, is long time I know dat, whey you been
I pity the fool....

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Re: Limited State of Emergency....
« Reply #1063 on: October 04, 2011, 11:47:42 AM »
This above is why I stop responding to some of the comments made in support of the SoE.  It is such an absurd, illogical, simplistic, knee-jerk position to take in using the abatement of crime as a justification for using/extending the SoE.  A reduction in crime is a logical extension of any process by which you curtail the freedom of people to move about, particularly compounded with an increased law enforcement process.  It is only tangentially related to the SoE and not at all indicative of effective governance or policing. It is a distressing symbol of intellectual immaturity that so many supposedly educated Trinbagonians would find this acceptable... which is separate from the 'national immaturity' Seetahal speaks of, in addressing the attitude that the only way we can function 'normally' is by government curtailing our individual rights.

THE BEATINGS WILL CONTINUE UNTIL MORALE IMPROVES

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Re: Limited State of Emergency....
« Reply #1064 on: October 04, 2011, 01:04:54 PM »
Uncle Errol: Things are not improving in Trinidad and Tobago, the authorities are making more and more of a pappyshow of themselves and our country. THEY HAVE FAILED US!
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Re: Limited State of Emergency....
« Reply #1065 on: October 04, 2011, 02:40:18 PM »
Uncle Errol: Things are not improving in Trinidad and Tobago, the authorities are making more and more of a pappyshow of themselves and our country. THEY HAVE FAILED US!
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/4GvUwlPSKJk" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/4GvUwlPSKJk</a>

they have been failing for over 3 decades, so whats the point  ??? ::)

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Re: Limited State of Emergency....
« Reply #1066 on: October 04, 2011, 04:14:50 PM »

One of the worrying side effects is that people are now very used to living under a curfew and once we return to normal, it could be a shock to the system.

And we still don't know the reason for the SOE. Govt talk about preventing a situation that would make 1990 look like a tea party, but we still don't know what is was and we still haven't seen any post SOE plans to combat crime.


FS I hear you.  I'm not sure how much shock it's going to be to people.  The only shock that's coming is how many bandits are going to get kill if they start back with they stuff.  But law abiding people ain't getting no shock.  Night is for sleep day is for work.  As far as I'm concern we like to much party and we skin teeth at slackness.  When the main stream populace don't hold itself accountable they become food for wicked men because it's a communal endorsement.   Low morality and ethics breeds anarchy(Lawlessness).  Why?  Laws are built on morality and ethics.  So if people don't respect the laws it will not protect them. This ain't rocket science.   And my reference is for EVERYONE from JACK, PNM ,UNC ,PP to the customs officer.   To turn this ship we need to vote in the right leadership and brace. 

I understand your sentiments, but you cannot group everyone together. I enjoy taking a lime, and this curfew means that I can't enjoy a drink with friends in the way I used to. By the time you get in from work, eat, bathe etc its past 8pm. This means that I wouldn't reach town until past 8.30 and bars close at 9.30, so its just not worth it. Of course, I could go straight from work, eat out etc, but the reality is this isn't practical. Also, my boys used to sweat until 10pm and then take a lime. I don't believe any of my friends suffer from low morality or ethics. I also enjoy seeing live bands at places like Woodford Cafe which currently isn't possible and take my girl to a club. Again, I don't see this as morally or ethically unacceptable.

Even those people who choose to sleep around or spend their money in casino's aren't acting illegally. I know I am being controversial by saying this, but suppose an effect of the SOE was that people could only attend churches or mosques between the hours of 2pm and 5pm or that services could only last 20 minutes. Religeous people would be in uproar. I don't choose to attend religeous services, but I do choose to attend bars. Does this make me morally bankrupt? I choose how I want to live my life and as long as it hurts no one, I should be allowed to do as I like. People like your mother have a different lifestyle than me and they are receiving a positive effect from the SOE, and I am pleased for them. However, people like me are not allowed to live the life we choose. I'm sometimes still working until 9pm and maybe somedays I don't start work until 4pm. Daytime is no good to me, I want to relax at night. One of my friends works from 9am until 8pm, why shouldn't he be allowed to take a beer at night?

So as much as I appreciate that the SOE is curtailing criminal activity, for a lot of people it is curtailing their social life. To many thats no big deal and a price worth paying, but again, I say would the same be said if it was peoples religeous worship that was being curtailed?
 

One of the worrying side effects is that people are now very used to living under a curfew and once we return to normal, it could be a shock to the system.

And we still don't know the reason for the SOE. Govt talk about preventing a situation that would make 1990 look like a tea party, but we still don't know what is was and we still haven't seen any post SOE plans to combat crime.


FS I hear you.  I'm not sure how much shock it's going to be to people.  The only shock that's coming is how many bandits are going to get kill if they start back with they stuff.  But law abiding people ain't getting no shock.  Night is for sleep day is for work.  As far as I'm concern we like to much party and we skin teeth at slackness.  When the main stream populace don't hold itself accountable they become food for wicked men because it's a communal endorsement.   Low morality and ethics breeds anarchy(Lawlessness).  Why?  Laws are built on morality and ethics.  So if people don't respect the laws it will not protect them. This ain't rocket science.   And my reference is for EVERYONE from JACK, PNM ,UNC ,PP to the customs officer.   To turn this ship we need to vote in the right leadership and brace. 

I understand your sentiments, but you cannot group everyone together. I enjoy taking a lime, and this curfew means that I can't enjoy a drink with friends in the way I used to. By the time you get in from work, eat, bathe etc its past 8pm. This means that I wouldn't reach town until past 8.30 and bars close at 9.30, so its just not worth it. Of course, I could go straight from work, eat out etc, but the reality is this isn't practical. Also, my boys used to sweat until 10pm and then take a lime. I don't believe any of my friends suffer from low morality or ethics. I also enjoy seeing live bands at places like Woodford Cafe which currently isn't possible and take my girl to a club. Again, I don't see this as morally or ethically unacceptable.

Even those people who choose to sleep around or spend their money in casino's aren't acting illegally. I know I am being controversial by saying this, but suppose an effect of the SOE was that people could only attend churches or mosques between the hours of 2pm and 5pm or that services could only last 20 minutes. Religeous people would be in uproar. I don't choose to attend religeous services, but I do choose to attend bars. Does this make me morally bankrupt? I choose how I want to live my life and as long as it hurts no one, I should be allowed to do as I like. People like your mother have a different lifestyle than me and they are receiving a positive effect from the SOE, and I am pleased for them. However, people like me are not allowed to live the life we choose. I'm sometimes still working until 9pm and maybe somedays I don't start work until 4pm. Daytime is no good to me, I want to relax at night. One of my friends works from 9am until 8pm, why shouldn't he be allowed to take a beer at night?

So as much as I appreciate that the SOE is curtailing criminal activity, for a lot of people it is curtailing their social life. To many thats no big deal and a price worth paying, but again, I say would the same be said if it was peoples religeous worship that was being curtailed?
 

FS sometimes I tend to over simplify, what I meant to say was that we Trinis like the nice results without the due diligence...(Party Mentality)  and we no longer hold each other accountable to positive community standards. (Skin Teeth at slackness)   It hasn't always been that way though in times past children were made to respect all adults.  This was a statute of community that upheld positive responses to authority and there were many others including sharing conversation(Liming) and sharing resources.
Morality and Ethincs precedes religion.  Religion came into being when people some how felt that they no longer needed to take personal responsibility for their actions.   Are you saying not liming is the same as being denied the right to worship?  Cause I know many churches would just change their times.
« Last Edit: October 04, 2011, 04:18:53 PM by Preacher »
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Offline STEUPS!!

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Re: Limited State of Emergency....
« Reply #1067 on: October 04, 2011, 04:16:54 PM »
when watching d news and watching the faces of these people who were arrested under d SOE and now released due to lack of evidence, we in for some SERIOUS PRESSURE these next few months.

a hornets nest has been raised due to the improper planning of the SOE. dem fellas coming to make mas in dis place. just now u will see a surge in murders. alot of dem fellas feel somebody snitch on them so is level revenge scene goin to play off.

on top of that they cud very well sue the government for wrongful arrest and end up getting probably millions of dollars. my self imposed routine for the past few weeks was work, school, home and this will continue for the next few months. i dont want to be outside after seven.

i see Preacher and others saying that the atmosphere appears calmer. i wholeheartedly disagree. i actually feel less safe during this SOE and when this SOE is over, i think this country would be worse off where crime is concerned. im praying that I am wrong.
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Re: Limited State of Emergency....
« Reply #1068 on: October 04, 2011, 04:22:34 PM »


i see Preacher and others saying that the atmosphere appears calmer. i wholeheartedly disagree. i actually feel less safe during this SOE and when this SOE is over, i think this country would be worse off where crime is concerned. im praying that I am wrong.

That's fair enough for me, everyone would see things differently. Regardless of our views we are both hoping for the best.   :cheers:
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Re: Limited State of Emergency....
« Reply #1069 on: October 04, 2011, 04:53:06 PM »
when watching d news and watching the faces of these people who were arrested under d SOE and now released due to lack of evidence, we in for some SERIOUS PRESSURE these next few months.

a hornets nest has been raised due to the improper planning of the SOE. dem fellas coming to make mas in dis place. just now u will see a surge in murders. alot of dem fellas feel somebody snitch on them so is level revenge scene goin to play off.

on top of that they cud very well sue the government for wrongful arrest and end up getting probably millions of dollars. my self imposed routine for the past few weeks was work, school, home and this will continue for the next few months. i dont want to be outside after seven.

i see Preacher and others saying that the atmosphere appears calmer. i wholeheartedly disagree.  i actually feel less safe during this SOE and when this SOE is over, i think this country would be worse off where crime is concerned. im praying that I am wrong.

STEUPS, its sounds to me like you want to encourage them to keep this SOE going permanently!
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Offline STEUPS!!

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Re: Limited State of Emergency....
« Reply #1070 on: October 04, 2011, 05:56:12 PM »
when watching d news and watching the faces of these people who were arrested under d SOE and now released due to lack of evidence, we in for some SERIOUS PRESSURE these next few months.

a hornets nest has been raised due to the improper planning of the SOE. dem fellas coming to make mas in dis place. just now u will see a surge in murders. alot of dem fellas feel somebody snitch on them so is level revenge scene goin to play off.

on top of that they cud very well sue the government for wrongful arrest and end up getting probably millions of dollars. my self imposed routine for the past few weeks was work, school, home and this will continue for the next few months. i dont want to be outside after seven.

i see Preacher and others saying that the atmosphere appears calmer. i wholeheartedly disagree.  i actually feel less safe during this SOE and when this SOE is over, i think this country would be worse off where crime is concerned. im praying that I am wrong.

STEUPS, its sounds to me like you want to encourage them to keep this SOE going permanently!

not at allllllllll pro. it was a mistake to implement it in the first place. people are still being murdered, crime is still goin on as normal and d big fish still swimming out dey.. SOE = a waste of time
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SOE discussion going on right now on C-TV!
« Reply #1071 on: October 04, 2011, 07:18:18 PM »
SOE discussion going on right now on C-TV!

Click this link: http://www.ctntworld.com/livestream
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Offline Brownsugar

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Re: Limited State of Emergency....
« Reply #1072 on: October 05, 2011, 07:45:28 AM »
I am listening to a very interesting discussion on I95.5 fm right now on the Anti-gang legislation and the SOE by extension....I'll post details later....


Edit: 
Before I forget what was said.  Attorney Israel Khan was interviewed this morning and he said among many things that most of the people held under the Anti-gang legislaton to date will have to be released. 

He said the police apparently decided that with the new law in place they could go and pick up people they would have had information on BEFORE the legislation came into being.   But that information can't be used to charge people for offences committed before the law came into being.  And as such, most of the people held will be released without being prosecuted.

With respect to prosecutions, he said that the people released CAN'T SUE THE STATE BECAUSE THEY WERE NOT PROSECUTED.   They can be picked up under a State of Emergency and detained but once they were not prosecuted they can't sue the state for wrongful prosecution.  He said if they were detained under A DETENTION ORDER issued by the Minister of National Security then they may have been able to sue the state for wrongful detention.  So the question was then asked why has no one been picked up under a detention order.  He replied that the assessment would have been made that there was NO DIRECT THREAT to the state by any of these people that would warrant the issuance of such an order.  So Dale and Tony replied, but that doesn't make sense since the initial claim was that the SOE was called to avert a crisis/emergency.  So how could there not be such a threat??  Mr. Khan agreed with them that it was strange that such an order was not issued considering the nature of an SOE.

So when asked what was the purpose then of calling an SOE if these people would just be let back out without being prosecuted.  He replied that the crime has been reduced under the SOE so it was just a matter of holding these people for a while so the country could get a breather. 

He said it would be natural to be concerned of the aftermath in the months to come when these people are released.  I think I heard him say something like he doesn't know what these fellas might do once released with the knowledge that they can't be touched......I'm not sure I heard him correct because I may have been distracted at that point and didn't hear the entire statement he made or get the full context.

Just thought I would share.....it was an interesting discussion.....
« Last Edit: October 05, 2011, 08:33:19 AM by Brownsugar »
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Offline sammy

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Re: Limited State of Emergency....
« Reply #1073 on: October 05, 2011, 10:18:45 AM »
I am listening to a very interesting discussion on I95.5 fm right now on the Anti-gang legislation and the SOE by extension....I'll post details later....


Edit: 
Before I forget what was said.  Attorney Israel Khan was interviewed this morning and he said among many things that most of the people held under the Anti-gang legislaton to date will have to be released. 

He said the police apparently decided that with the new law in place they could go and pick up people they would have had information on BEFORE the legislation came into being.   But that information can't be used to charge people for offences committed before the law came into being.  And as such, most of the people held will be released without being prosecuted.

With respect to prosecutions, he said that the people released CAN'T SUE THE STATE BECAUSE THEY WERE NOT PROSECUTED.   They can be picked up under a State of Emergency and detained but once they were not prosecuted they can't sue the state for wrongful prosecution.  He said if they were detained under A DETENTION ORDER issued by the Minister of National Security then they may have been able to sue the state for wrongful detention.  So the question was then asked why has no one been picked up under a detention order.  He replied that the assessment would have been made that there was NO DIRECT THREAT to the state by any of these people that would warrant the issuance of such an order.  So Dale and Tony replied, but that doesn't make sense since the initial claim was that the SOE was called to avert a crisis/emergency.  So how could there not be such a threat??  Mr. Khan agreed with them that it was strange that such an order was not issued considering the nature of an SOE.

So when asked what was the purpose then of calling an SOE if these people would just be let back out without being prosecuted.  He replied that the crime has been reduced under the SOE so it was just a matter of holding these people for a while so the country could get a breather. 

He said it would be natural to be concerned of the aftermath in the months to come when these people are released.  I think I heard him say something like he doesn't know what these fellas might do once released with the knowledge that they can't be touched......I'm not sure I heard him correct because I may have been distracted at that point and didn't hear the entire statement he made or get the full context.

Just thought I would share.....it was an interesting discussion.....

So my question is, are these guys actually the ones that are/were committing the violent crimes? He makes it seem so.
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Offline lefty

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Re: Limited State of Emergency....
« Reply #1074 on: October 05, 2011, 10:58:24 AM »
So my question is, are these guys actually the ones that are/were committing the violent crimes? He makes it seem so.

sammy it obvious dat plenty ah dem fellas ent no innocence, but yuh call ah SOE tell d police to go out and bring een d criminals and police doh even understand d law under which yuh arrestin dese people, on top ah dat, yuh give dem fellas ah whole day an' change to move evidence dat would have been would at d scene.............ah will say in again, dem fellas have serious hardware up dey...........and police eh even scratch d surface simply because the powers dat be move real clumsy
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Offline weary1969

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Re: Limited State of Emergency....
« Reply #1075 on: October 05, 2011, 12:53:25 PM »
I am listening to a very interesting discussion on I95.5 fm right now on the Anti-gang legislation and the SOE by extension....I'll post details later....


Edit: 
Before I forget what was said.  Attorney Israel Khan was interviewed this morning and he said among many things that most of the people held under the Anti-gang legislaton to date will have to be released. 

He said the police apparently decided that with the new law in place they could go and pick up people they would have had information on BEFORE the legislation came into being.   But that information can't be used to charge people for offences committed before the law came into being.  And as such, most of the people held will be released without being prosecuted.

With respect to prosecutions, he said that the people released CAN'T SUE THE STATE BECAUSE THEY WERE NOT PROSECUTED.   They can be picked up under a State of Emergency and detained but once they were not prosecuted they can't sue the state for wrongful prosecution.  He said if they were detained under A DETENTION ORDER issued by the Minister of National Security then they may have been able to sue the state for wrongful detention.  So the question was then asked why has no one been picked up under a detention order.  He replied that the assessment would have been made that there was NO DIRECT THREAT to the state by any of these people that would warrant the issuance of such an order.  So Dale and Tony replied, but that doesn't make sense since the initial claim was that the SOE was called to avert a crisis/emergency.  So how could there not be such a threat??  Mr. Khan agreed with them that it was strange that such an order was not issued considering the nature of an SOE.

So when asked what was the purpose then of calling an SOE if these people would just be let back out without being prosecuted.  He replied that the crime has been reduced under the SOE so it was just a matter of holding these people for a while so the country could get a breather. 

He said it would be natural to be concerned of the aftermath in the months to come when these people are released.  I think I heard him say something like he doesn't know what these fellas might do once released with the knowledge that they can't be touched......I'm not sure I heard him correct because I may have been distracted at that point and didn't hear the entire statement he made or get the full context.

Just thought I would share.....it was an interesting discussion.....

So my question is, are these guys actually the ones that are/were committing the violent crimes? He makes it seem so.

Israel Khan was I say was a fella I use 2 like and listen 2 but after hearing d clip I say he singin 4 his supper. Let d courts decide dat they eh entitle 2 no money for wrongful arrest. Not because he say that dey eh have no case mean dey eh have no case.
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Offline mukumsplau

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Re: Limited State of Emergency....
« Reply #1076 on: October 05, 2011, 01:29:21 PM »
when i hear 'sandman' get released i say dese police ainy know wat dey doin at all...sandman name does b callin in ting left right and center o d eastwest corridor...same way how 'satan' from maloney name used to be about...allyuh remember d girl who beat up d kushbar in d car on d promenade? if u listen u will hear her  threaten all on d promenade that she wud let sandman deal wit all ah dem..

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Re: Limited State of Emergency....
« Reply #1077 on: October 05, 2011, 01:38:08 PM »
Israel can is ah dunce or what?  "wrongful prosecution" isn't the only theory under which the state can be sued.  If police arresting man without cause (meaning without evidence or at least reasonable suspicion for doing so) then the state can be sued for wrongful arrest... or illegal arrest as it would properly be called. 

None of these people were picked up under the the emergency powers, they were picked up under existing anti-gang laws and as such the lower evidentiary threshold of the emergency powers of arrest do not control, to be arrested under AGL they have to meet the criteria established by the AGL statute. If this was not done then it was a wrongful arrest.

Before I really call him out he name I probably need to hear what it is he actually say and the context in which it was said... because that what he is alleged to have said is shocking in its implications.
« Last Edit: October 05, 2011, 01:41:02 PM by Bakes »

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Re: Limited State of Emergency....
« Reply #1078 on: October 05, 2011, 03:10:52 PM »
Marijuana eradication exercises in Biche nets weapons
Wednesday 5th October, 2011
 
Officials have destroyed millions of dollars worth of marijuana in two eradication exercises in the Biche forest
 
Trinidad and Tobago Police Service Public Information Officer, ASP Joanne Archie, confirmed that both exercises were conducted by officers of the Eastern Division Task Force and Organised Crime, Narcotics and Firearms Bureau on Tuesday and Monday.
 
On Tuesday, officers of the EDTF, OCNFB and Defence Force went to the Biche Charuma Forest and found two camps. They found two 12-gauge shotguns, 12 rounds of 12-gauge cartridges, 1 spent cartridge and a crossbow.
 
"Also, 152,000 fully grown marijuana trees, 3,000 seedlings, 6 kilogrammes marijuana seeds, and 30 kilogrammes of cured marijuana with an approximate street value of $152,300,000 was destroyed. No one was arrested. Investigations are continuing."
 
ASP Archie said on Monday, 45,000 fully grown marijuana trees and 22.7 kilogrammes of cured marijuana were destroyed at the Biche Forest. The street value of Monday's marijuana find was $4.5 million.

http://www.ctntworld.com/LocalArticles.aspx?id=32768&utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

-------------

4 held for murder of Assistant Police Commissioner
Wednesday 5th October, 2011
 
Police have arrested 4 men in connection with this year's murder of former Assistant Police Commissioner Cecil Carrington.
 
Mr Carrington was gunned down outside his Manzanilla home on January 28th 2011.
 
Speaking at the daily Police Press Briefing, ASP Joanne Archie confirmed that investigations were carried out by the Homicide Bureau and the Director of Public Prosecutions has now given instructions to charge four men with the crime.
 
Three of the suspects are 19 years old and the fourth is 24 years old.
 
The former Assistant Commissioner once led the Anti-Kidnapping Squad, the North Eastern Division and the Criminal Intelligence Division.
 
ASP Archie said more arrests and charges will follow in connection with the murder.

http://www.ctntworld.com/LocalArticles.aspx?id=32770&utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter
 
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Re: Limited State of Emergency....
« Reply #1079 on: October 05, 2011, 03:45:17 PM »
I'd just like to know how they counted the 152,000 marajuana trees on Tuesday and the 45,000 on Monday  ???

I mean, thats a lot of trees to count in one day. And imagine this (please forgive my attempts at written Trini!):

Constable Ganja is counting the trees..... "One hundred and twenty one thousand three hundred and twenty two, one hundred and twenty one thousand three hundred and twenty three, one hundred and twenty one thousand three hundred and twenty four......"
His cell phone rings
Ganja: "Hello"
Caller " Honey, it's yuh baby Sensomilia"
Ganja "Sensi baby, ah cyan talk nah, I's counting trees "
Caller "OK baby, jus call to remind allyuh to collek meh wildmeat fuh dinner nah"
Ganja "Scene, scene. Ah gone" Puts away phone. "Ooooohh Goooooddd, ah nah forget de las tree ah counted." Loud Steups
Ganja " One, Two, Three......"

 

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