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Offline Tallman

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Re: Limited State of Emergency....
« Reply #840 on: September 14, 2011, 06:32:14 PM »
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Offline Preacher

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Re: Limited State of Emergency....
« Reply #841 on: September 14, 2011, 06:40:11 PM »
Brownie....Let me put this way, and I'm not trying to be simplistic, honestly.   In crisis, you get who's in charge.  Unless, T&T isn't in crisis.  Another administration may have chosen and executed differently.  I'm just in favor of law, admittedly my initial post didn't reveal that.  I should have just copied TC.   ;D

I guess that's a good question.  Minus the SOE.  Do you think (or anyone else) that T&T is in crisis regarding lawlessness?
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Offline Brownsugar

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Re: Limited State of Emergency....
« Reply #842 on: September 14, 2011, 07:12:50 PM »
I guess that's a good question.  Minus the SOE.  Do you think (or anyone else) that T&T is in crisis regarding lawlessness?

Crisis.....short definitions = disaster, emergency, calamity, catastrophe, predicament.   Preacher, we were definitely in a predicament, a calamity an emergency so yes.....we were/are in a crisis.  I have been a victim of crime.  My neighbours, my co workers, family.  So I'm not burying my head in the sand over this......

But here again is my problem with how this was/is being handled.  This PP government came into office proclaiming to have the answers to solving crime.  I'm sure they know, every body knows it would take time.  They however proclaimed to have short term, medium term and long term plans.  Fine, cool. No problem. 

But they came in and started to dismantle the things put in place by the last administration aimed at fighting crime apparently just on the basis of these things being PNM.....I too had concerns with the expenditure on some of these things.....but tweak it here and there.  Don't dismantle it wholesale....and they couldn't get a hold of the run away murder rate.

But then that just weeks before they themselves proclaim to all who would hear that the murder rate was coming down.   And then bam...out of the blue we get an SOE......

Now I would have thought that having called this SOE we would see some semblance of a plan being executed to really get rid of criminal elements every where......

How come Point Lisas eh lock down yet for example??  How come they NOW securing the maritime borders?? 

Preacher, every body knows who the corrupt police officers are, the corrupt customs officials are etc.  How come we eh see dem in handcuffs yet??

All I have seen since the start of this SOE is fumbling from one course of action to a next like headless chickens......

So they used their most powerful weapon but clearly had no plan to execute it.  And I'm supposed to be comforted by that?? !!  They themselves aren't taking it seriously.....The friggin President on vacation and Kamla riding out tomorrow or Friday for Pete's sake!!!

And no, my life hasn't been altered dramatically by this SOE.  I can't lime as late as I want to and that is a minor inconvenience.  But doh take away my choice to lime late or not.  To move freely or not and den you eh have a blasted plan to back it up??  Only ah setta gun talk and rhetoric.

I cyar sit back and be comfortable when an SOE is being used to pick up people with traffic tickets and for maintenance!!!  What shyte is that??!!  steups!!!

So yes, we have a crisis with lawlessness.....but it would be solved not by a jokey SOE for 3 months, but by taking tough decisions that our leaders are too weak to take.....

Ah feel dais where the real crisis is.....leadership.....and not from this government eh......but overall in society as a whole.......lack of real leaders.....every body just for themselves......steups!!!
"...If yuh clothes tear up
Or yuh shoes burst off,
You could still jump up when music play.
Old lady, young baby, everybody could dingolay...
Dingolay, ay, ay, ay ay,
Dingolay ay, ay, ay..."

RIP Shadow....The legend will live on in music...

Offline Brownsugar

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Re: Limited State of Emergency....
« Reply #843 on: September 14, 2011, 07:27:47 PM »
So much for them rusty arse guns dey find in Las Cuevas.....setta jokers!!!  steups!!!

Emergency notes
By Raffique Shah


THE best crime-fighting measures emerging from the Emergency thus far are the medium-term initiatives Prime Minister Kamla Persad-Bissessar announced when she wound up the motion that saw Parliament extend the State of Emergency for three months. The Selwyn Ryan committee that will look at curbing criminality, the case-flow-management team of attorneys, the proposed amnesty for minor offences and the possible release from prison of convicts who no longer pose a threat to society, if aggressively pursued, would yield more benefits to the society than the steep drop in crimes during the Emergency.

The challenge will be whether the various committees and teams are allowed to function effectively. Politicians have a way of making grandiose plans and appointing the best people to formulate them. But they fail to lend adequate support as the committees get down to work. Worse, if the recommendations do not find favour with Government, they are unceremoniously cast aside.

I need add that some of these measures were touted by the Patrick Manning administration—abolition of preliminary enquiries, reconstruction of East Port of Spain, rehabilitation units in the prisons, to name three. Somehow, they got lost along the way as criminals grew in stature and communities came under siege.

Will this Government allow preventative measures and restorative justice to replace the punitive systems that have helped spawn more criminals thus far? I can only hope they will. Because if they fail, if at the end of the time-limited SoE we see nothing new, it would be only a matter of time before we return to the savagery of yesterday.

I should like to add my two-cents-worth to the initiatives already announced. I have long queried why magistrates and judges insist on jailing drug addicts, except when they commit serious crimes. Besides negatively affecting overcrowded prisons, we are dealing with a revolving-door phenomenon. They enter today, are released two months later, only to return again and again.

Government must consider setting up some properly policed rehabilitation centres, preferably in Chacachacare or one of the other islands. It will cost us some, but the long-term savings will be worth it.

There is also an urgent need to flush the prisons of petty offenders in order to save them from becoming hardened criminals, and to make room for savages who are beyond redemption. I know that prison is a "crime factory". I have been there, seen how it works, so I write with authority. The electro-nic monitoring devices Government proposes to introduce offer a window for addressing this option.

Regarding the judicial system, the population needs to know why certain lethal offenders sit in jail for years, "calling shots" on witnesses and associates on the outside as they await snail-paced-justice. Is there not a prioritising procedure that can see such matters dispensed with in short order?

I have read about, and listened to, some victims of police and army emergency powers, and they are frightening. One radio personality, who is on air and available to the police anytime they choose, reported how he was picked up last week, in the dead of night, thrown into a cell and spent 12 hours in custody—for a $200 traffic offences ticket he had not paid. He said that a fire officer was similarly treated, as were four persons who had failed to pay child-maintenance money.

They were in a crowded cell with at least one murder accused, and they were not told why until long after they had been dragged from their homes.

Several other persons who were not arrested or charged with any offence were badly beaten by police officers or soldiers. Yet others "disappeared" after being arrested.

Surely, Commissioner Dwayne Gibbs and Brigadier Kenrick Mahabir cannot be proud of their charges who acted, and continue to act, like hoodlums. If you use emergency powers to arrest persons for petty offences, that's tantamount to abuse! Come on! You can do better if you want to play the numbers game.

On another note, my colleagues in the media are going overboard reporting on "high-powered" guns found or seized by the police or army. All guns are deadly—from a .22 pistol to a .9mm sub-machine gun and a 7.62mm rifle. So every firearm recovered means one fewer gun in the hands of criminals. I have said, from the start of the SoE, I'd prefer the armed forces seize 1,000 firearms and arrest 100 gangsters than the other way round.

Still, let's stop the sensationalism. Reports of sniper's weapons and long-range, rapid-fire guns recovered can be misleading. Do we know of a single case in this country in which a rifle was used from 1,000 metres to murder someone? Not one! Those jokers would miss their targets from beyond 20 metres!

Is there evidence of criminals using rapid-fire weapons in their murderous exploits? One newspaper reported that the police found a "gun capable of firing 1,000 rounds a minute". Only a GPMG, or similar medium machine gun, has that capability.

My knowledge of weapons tells that a sub-machine gun may have been used in the killing-spree in Arima that triggered the SoE. Have the police recovered that weapon? I think not. Ballistics, combined with forensic examinations of the victims' corpses, can tell. Go after guns like that.

Regarding the arms cache found in Las Cuevas, clearly, those rusted .303 rifles and assorted guns are now useless. It would be informative, though, to learn where they came from and who buried them there. The .303 rifle was the standard personal weapon in the Defence Force up to 1966, and in the Police Service until 1970.

http://www.trinidadexpress.com/commentaries/Emergency_notes-129603423.html
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Or yuh shoes burst off,
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Old lady, young baby, everybody could dingolay...
Dingolay, ay, ay, ay ay,
Dingolay ay, ay, ay..."

RIP Shadow....The legend will live on in music...

Offline Preacher

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Re: Limited State of Emergency....
« Reply #844 on: September 14, 2011, 08:09:58 PM »

So yes, we have a crisis with lawlessness.....but it would be solved not by a jokey SOE for 3 months, but by taking tough decisions that our leaders are too weak to take.....

Ah feel dais where the real crisis is.....leadership.....and not from this government eh......but overall in society as a whole.......lack of real leaders.....every body just for themselves......steups!!!

I can respect that B, I think that's where most posters can agree to land on.  I do hope it's lack of leadership and nothing more sinister from their end.  :praying:   I also agree, if the Colombian gang story is accurate ALL coastal areas should have been closed. 
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Offline D.H.W

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Re: Limited State of Emergency....
« Reply #845 on: September 14, 2011, 08:12:46 PM »

So yes, we have a crisis with lawlessness.....but it would be solved not by a jokey SOE for 3 months, but by taking tough decisions that our leaders are too weak to take.....

Ah feel dais where the real crisis is.....leadership.....and not from this government eh......but overall in society as a whole.......lack of real leaders.....every body just for themselves......steups!!!

I can respect that B, I think that's where most posters can agree to land on.  I do hope it's lack of leadership and nothing more sinister from their end.  :praying:   I also agree, if the Colombian gang story is accurate ALL coastal areas should have been closed. 

It have a curfew at sea now. So the AG say
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Offline mukumsplau

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Re: Limited State of Emergency....
« Reply #846 on: September 14, 2011, 08:42:03 PM »
after all what hadda pass pass already then they wanna lock up borders an d entry points...i doh relly bodder wit kamala an dem u know is jus dey relly tryin to insult mih intelligence

Offline Football supporter

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Re: Limited State of Emergency....
« Reply #847 on: September 14, 2011, 09:59:13 PM »
I feel the crisis has not yet arrived. This SOE is going to be a public relations nightmare for the government. It doesn't matter now if they find a cache of 50 machine guns or a $50 million drug haul, people will not be satisfied. For 3 weeks now, the population has been relatively patient, but they are now bored. The SOE was exciting, watching tv every night to see how many are arrested, how many guns have been discovered etc

But now, people are bored with hearing another 30 people have been arrested for outstanding warrents.

The Nelson St situation was embarrassing, made even more so by the release of cctv. We're on lockdown for 3 weeks only so police can capture and release known criminals, who could now sue the govt.

No major drug dealers - the so called "big fish" - have been caught and we have no information if any gang leaders have been caught and will be charged.

Yes, guns have been located.....rusty 30 year old guns, home made guns and pistols that probably will misfire if shot.

And now, after we've recovered from hearing our two senior cops were out of the country when the SOE was announced, the President is on holiday and the PM is off to Australia. WTF? This SOE is so important that businesses are forced to close, people are afraid to go to hospital after 11pm. Even our Independence Day celebrations and our National football has been disrupted. Yet its not so important that the President couldn't postpone his holiday? Not important enough for Kamla to send someone in her place? At times of crisis, people look to their leader on the bridge of the sinking ship, fighting to stay afloat. But our leader has disappeared. An SOE is the most serious state a country can undergo, but its still not as important as a trip to the other side of the world?

I find this incredibly disrespectful.

Once this SOE ends, the govt will have to answer lots of questions and I believe they will have insufficient answers. Be prepared for a national strike the week after the SOE finishes, because the unions have been refused their civil rights. They will already be planning their moves. And disenfranchised citizens will support and join them. Gangs will be hyper active establishing new turf boundries and filling the vacuum left by those few gang members charged. Be prepared for another SOE.

I have heard nothing other than political "top secret" excuses for justifying the SOE. I am 100% in favour of a tough anti crime policy, but I think the SOE was badly executed and poorly thought through. Guliano cleaned up NY with zero tolerance, why couldn't we try that?

I'm sure that govt still has the mandate of the people at the moment, but it will be the aftermath of the SOE that will be the real problem. Are we seriously supposed to believe that one day, in 3 months time, the SOE will end and we will emerge into a new T&T where everyone will live together in some utopia? What will the govt do if the crime rate returns to the same rate? What happens if 6 people are murdered in the first week?

I feel the crisis has not yet arrived.

Offline capodetutticapi

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Re: Limited State of Emergency....
« Reply #848 on: September 14, 2011, 10:13:29 PM »
people on here talkin ketch de big fish,who is de big fish.....call f**kin names,when NAR come to power in 86 issa nicholas give them 25 million,few months after police raid he paper factory on the highway,AG richardson call them ah tell them get out.
« Last Edit: September 14, 2011, 11:18:05 PM by capodetutticapi »
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Offline zuluwarrior

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Re: Limited State of Emergency....
« Reply #849 on: September 15, 2011, 05:19:56 AM »
Emergency debate

 By Martin Daly



Story Created: Sep 11, 2011 at 12:38 AM ECT
(
 Story Updated: Sep 11, 2011 at 12:38 AM ECT )
 

The debates on the proclamation of the State of Emergency and its extension for three months were not as nasty I feared. It appears that the nastier remarks were confined to the cross talk.
 
I did have one shock. That was upon hearing it said that the Anti Gang legislation although completed in May was not proclaimed until mid August, a week or so before the proclamation of the State of Emergency. I did not hear any explanation about this alleged delay, which would be surprising in view of the bipartisan character of the finished product.
 
Perhaps if the Minister of National Security had wound up the debate he commenced, he might have dealt with this and also answered some other points. I consider this failure of the Minister of National Security to wind up was one of some blots on a debate that was reasonable although lacking in variety of ideas.
 
In this touchy society, it is necessary to say again that my comments are not intended as a personal attack on those on whose report cards there may be blots. We have to move past taking everything personally and seeing racial jumbies as soon as it is politically expedient to do so. I should mention that this expediency seems to have affected some of the more financially comfortable among us, who seem edgy, when I and other commentators insist that the State of Emergency will not be a success unless the importers and financiers of drugs, guns and prostitution are detained. Whom are they defending?
 
I should also say in passing, that Khafra Kambon, Chairman of the Emancipation Support Committee, and Foulade Motota of WINAD, not of course members of Parliament, were models of restraint in their television interviews, even though graphically describing the adverse effect of the State of Emergency on the "hot spot" areas chosen for curfew.
 
Another blot was the proposition of the Minister of Sport, Mr. Anil Roberts, that his playing in a match in the Oval was related to the work of his Ministry so that he did not have to attend Parliament on the first of the two days of the debate on the extension. When a sporting event takes precedence over the debate is this not trivialisation of the State of Emergency?
 


I have said repeatedly that picking up large numbers of hot spot residents is not a measure of the success of the State of Emergency. In my very first interview, I condemned the use of the State of Emergency, if it was going to be used to pick up alleged but ordinary wrongdoers on the streets of east Port of Spain. That is normal police work subject to due process, which must not be contaminated by biased profiling.
 
I was very disappointed therefore that the Minister of Housing and the Environment, Dr Roodal Moonilal, chose to describe those persons at the time in custody as 1,300 reasons for the State of Emergency. Such remarks inevitably contain an undertone that one can be careless with the freedom and other rights of hot spot residents. They do not count for less than the rest of us and human beings are not straws to be boastfully clutched. In addition, as has already become clear, the imprisonment of a significant number of the persons arrested may not be justified and prison conditions in Trinidad and Tobago are nauseating and add to the trauma of wrongful detention.
 


Generally, the PNM MPs fought their very narrow corner but, until they throw their previous leader and all his pomps overboard, they will have a credibility deficit. One cannot detach their legitimate defence of their beleaguered constituents from the fact that they sat on their hands on the issue of violent crime. Throughout their previous tenure they did not think to bring Anti Gang legislation (the efficacy of which still has to be tested) and yet they all pleaded for time to make it work. Nevertheless, Dr. Amery Browne was impressive and comprehensive in touching many different bases. He followed the Minister of Foreign Affairs and Communications, Dr Suruj Rambachan, who put the Government's case forcefully. Donna Cox raised the case of the detained footballer with fire and conviction.
 
Last weekend's debate represented genuine debate because there was a rare policy difference between the two parties, namely, whether the State of Emergency weapon should have been deployed at this time or at all. Debating a genuine difference kept speakers more to the issues and less to the insults. It was particularly pleasing that as each speaker rose he or she first tackled what the immediately preceding speaker had said and did not simply launch into reading a prepared text, which bore little or no relation to what had been said in the debating chamber earlier.
 
Have we achieved a little something in the Parliament on which we can build and set a better example?
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good things happening to bad people: a bad thing
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Offline lefty

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Re: Limited State of Emergency....
« Reply #850 on: September 15, 2011, 06:02:20 AM »
FS yuh hit d nail right on d head, and this my issue, d thing was poorly planned in d first place, d gov't and maybe the entire political structure in bed with "alleged" high rankin  proponents of the crime problem, so yuh know no port lockin dong, no containers getting seriously searched. Do not be fooled they where d high tech weapons and drugs comin in and dey hands well and truly tied...................this SOE is about creatin enough quiet to skew the crime statistics ...............dat added to d sure to arrive if not already present onslaught of govt sponsored TV spots designed to bullshit d bullshitable among us............spin seems to be all dey good at....and just barely too because they always seem to be desperately reaching or weaving fanciful tales drawn from weekend Matinee specials ...."pictures with Xs"  please.............
I pity the fool....

Offline Trini

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Re: Limited State of Emergency....
« Reply #851 on: September 15, 2011, 07:43:19 AM »
So what u guys suggest in place of the SOE?
And be practical.


You know with stuff like this there are always reports of wrongful arrests and victimization.
The question is whether we willing to pay this price for an attempt to clean up the country.

I for one see a Govt trying something.
Clearly everything that was tried before since UNC days was not working.
Only time will tell now.
If they extend the SOE to Xmas then is trouble.

And on the issue of the PM leaving the country, why is it that people have an issue again with KPB leaving? Isn't she going to address the UN General Asembly?? If it were a vacation then I would have an issue with it.

Offline weary1969

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Re: Limited State of Emergency....
« Reply #852 on: September 15, 2011, 07:52:49 AM »
people on here talkin ketch de big fish,who is de big fish.....call f**kin names,when NAR come to power in 86 issa nicholas give them 25 million,few months after police raid he paper factory on the highway,AG richardson call them ah tell them get out.

Where Selwyn Richardson 2day?

So what u guys suggest in place of the SOE?
And be practical.


You know with stuff like this there are always reports of wrongful arrests and victimization.
The question is whether we willing to pay this price for an attempt to clean up the country.

I for one see a Govt trying something.
Clearly everything that was tried before since UNC days was not working.
Only time will tell now.
If they extend the SOE to Xmas then is trouble.

And on the issue of the PM leaving the country, why is it that people have an issue again with KPB leaving? Isn't she going to address the UN General Asembly?? If it were a vacation then I would have an issue with it.

Friend yuh country cyah b under a SOE and yuh gone to d UN? She have a Deputy Chair at Commonwealth let dem make d address. As 4 what 2 do stop d flow of drugs and guns and lock up who financing it. So doh lock down d sea 3 wks after yuh take my rights away and doh b pussy footin wit d FIU.

I would like 2 remind peeps dat this gang war strted when Sadeeq strted 2 give Bill and dem URP contract and dey strted 2 use d ghost gang payroll 2 finance dey gun and drugs. D gang wars commence wit Morvant v Laventille wit dem fellas in Picton up where he build d big water tank.

So 4 Kamla and dem 2 say dey tryin 2 address d problem dey need 2 admit that they who strted d gang warfare and now it spread up d hill v down d hill and d lil black hen chicken and dem continue 2 b pawns. I sorry 4 d innocent peeps who gte lock up but all dem bandit dem no tears are being shed.
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Offline lefty

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Re: Limited State of Emergency....
« Reply #853 on: September 15, 2011, 08:28:00 AM »
So what u guys suggest in place of the SOE?

1) how about lojackin d frickin police cars and institutin mandatory rostered and Centrally dispatch and supervised patrols throughout  TT.
2) how about patrollin known and alleged ports of entry for illegal drugs and guns on an ongoing basis, snap container searches at d main ports
3) how about growin some balls an jumpin out d big men pockets.
4) how about investigative and evidence gathering Law enforcement trainin for we police officers, because it obviously sadly lacking

and dais jus  a few off d top ah mih head
I pity the fool....

Offline weary1969

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Re: Limited State of Emergency....
« Reply #854 on: September 15, 2011, 09:31:29 AM »
Police Stats

Since the announcement of the state of Emergency on August 21, police have arrested a total of 2,102 people, seized 89 illegal firearms and 12,202 rounds of assorted ammunition.

Gang-related—447
Drug-related—391
Homicide—48
Other offences—45
Serious offences —461
Breaking curfew—119
Inquires—138
Traffic offences—400
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Offline Trini

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Re: Limited State of Emergency....
« Reply #855 on: September 15, 2011, 09:40:02 AM »
Weary - we talking solutions, not who cause what and who have to fess and own up. That achieves nothing, its actually kinda childish. Those policies were implemented by people who are for the most part no longer in govt or opposition. Both UNC and PNM have a long list of past indescretions that led to where we are today. Its kinda unfair to the PNM cause although they have IMO been much more at fault, they have been in power an order of magnitude longer. The PNM book of governing is fully entrenched in the Jamaican system of governance, just look at the heavyweights in the party over the decades and where they went University.

I guess we disagree about KPB going to the UN - That is the Superbowl of the world political scenes, its protocol for all heads of states to attend. Even Ahmadinejad routinely attends and addresses...
There are lots of countries who have instituted SOE's in the last 10, for a variety of reasons. What would be nice is if KPB uses her address to highlight the effect of the drug trade on Caribbean nations and lobby for more help. Its the political stage where many world policies are set.

Arguing whether she goes or not is the same as arguing to pave a highway or build a hospital - or hosting a Summit or buying police cars. There are always 2 sides, you have to weigh the potential rewards and risks of both. What can Kamla physically do here for 3 days that she can't on a cell phone or Skype from her Washington hotel when it comes to the SOE? Lets see what she talks about.

What is very worrying for me is the fact that we not seeing the big picture - we are still not 100% sure whether the SOE was called because of the supposed drug war or just to arrest rising gang activity in the country. Before the SOE, I think most serious crimes were down a fair bit from last year....If it was called for the drug war, then if reports are right, the Govt and intelligence knows the players involved and should be equipped to deal with all eventualities. Calling a SOE means the Govt and law enforcement saw that they were not in control. THe National Security advisors will have their reasons, but its an alarming situation when your Govt cannot cope with civil ills like that.
If the SOE was for general upsurge in crime, I would more accept that, as a new plan to address crime.
The real insight will come after it has been lifted, will we return to simmilar levels, higher or lower (highly doubt).
Points for trying something new if this is the case.
They should also IMO set up an official body to deal with abuses of power during the SOE....

Offline weary1969

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Re: Limited State of Emergency....
« Reply #856 on: September 15, 2011, 10:17:13 AM »
Weary - we talking solutions, not who cause what and who have to fess and own up. That achieves nothing, its actually kinda childish. Those policies were implemented by people who are for the most part no longer in govt or opposition. Both UNC and PNM have a long list of past indescretions that led to where we are today. Its kinda unfair to the PNM cause although they have IMO been much more at fault, they have been in power an order of magnitude longer. The PNM book of governing is fully entrenched in the Jamaican system of governance, just look at the heavyweights in the party over the decades and where they went University.

I guess we disagree about KPB going to the UN - That is the Superbowl of the world political scenes, its protocol for all heads of states to attend. Even Ahmadinejad routinely attends and addresses...
There are lots of countries who have instituted SOE's in the last 10, for a variety of reasons. What would be nice is if KPB uses her address to highlight the effect of the drug trade on Caribbean nations and lobby for more help. Its the political stage where many world policies are set.

Arguing whether she goes or not is the same as arguing to pave a highway or build a hospital - or hosting a Summit or buying police cars. There are always 2 sides, you have to weigh the potential rewards and risks of both. What can Kamla physically do here for 3 days that she can't on a cell phone or Skype from her Washington hotel when it comes to the SOE? Lets see what she talks about.

What is very worrying for me is the fact that we not seeing the big picture - we are still not 100% sure whether the SOE was called because of the supposed drug war or just to arrest rising gang activity in the country. Before the SOE, I think most serious crimes were down a fair bit from last year....If it was called for the drug war, then if reports are right, the Govt and intelligence knows the players involved and should be equipped to deal with all eventualities. Calling a SOE means the Govt and law enforcement saw that they were not in control. THe National Security advisors will have their reasons, but its an alarming situation when your Govt cannot cope with civil ills like that.
If the SOE was for general upsurge in crime, I would more accept that, as a new plan to address crime.
The real insight will come after it has been lifted, will we return to simmilar levels, higher or lower (highly doubt).
Points for trying something new if this is the case.
They should also IMO set up an official body to deal with abuses of power during the SOE....

I gave solutions but if yuh need 2 go forward u got 2 look bck especially since when u have amnesia as 2 what cause d problem in d 1st place. I eh know Iran under a SOE. So she gone 2 d superbowl and leave we in d SOE. No justification of her trip me eh care bout d UN because by d time dem done wit we eh go b a member of d UN we eh go b a nation.
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Offline elan

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Re: Limited State of Emergency....
« Reply #857 on: September 15, 2011, 12:03:52 PM »
Weary - we talking solutions, not who cause what and who have to fess and own up. That achieves nothing, its actually kinda childish. Those policies were implemented by people who are for the most part no longer in govt or opposition. Both UNC and PNM have a long list of past indescretions that led to where we are today. Its kinda unfair to the PNM cause although they have IMO been much more at fault, they have been in power an order of magnitude longer. The PNM book of governing is fully entrenched in the Jamaican system of governance, just look at the heavyweights in the party over the decades and where they went University.

I guess we disagree about KPB going to the UN - That is the Superbowl of the world political scenes, its protocol for all heads of states to attend. Even Ahmadinejad routinely attends and addresses...
There are lots of countries who have instituted SOE's in the last 10, for a variety of reasons. What would be nice is if KPB uses her address to highlight the effect of the drug trade on Caribbean nations and lobby for more help. Its the political stage where many world policies are set.

Arguing whether she goes or not is the same as arguing to pave a highway or build a hospital - or hosting a Summit or buying police cars. There are always 2 sides, you have to weigh the potential rewards and risks of both. What can Kamla physically do here for 3 days that she can't on a cell phone or Skype from her Washington hotel when it comes to the SOE? Lets see what she talks about.

What is very worrying for me is the fact that we not seeing the big picture - we are still not 100% sure whether the SOE was called because of the supposed drug war or just to arrest rising gang activity in the country. Before the SOE, I think most serious crimes were down a fair bit from last year....If it was called for the drug war, then if reports are right, the Govt and intelligence knows the players involved and should be equipped to deal with all eventualities. Calling a SOE means the Govt and law enforcement saw that they were not in control. THe National Security advisors will have their reasons, but its an alarming situation when your Govt cannot cope with civil ills like that.
If the SOE was for general upsurge in crime, I would more accept that, as a new plan to address crime.
The real insight will come after it has been lifted, will we return to simmilar levels, higher or lower (highly doubt).
Points for trying something new if this is the case.
They should also IMO set up an official body to deal with abuses of power during the SOE....

:bs: on the bolded part. They self block Patos when he wanted to call and SoE. :bs:


Ok good they call the SoE, what structures, policies, or provision are they putting in place during this time of "peace" that will asist in a long term effort of keeping the murder rate down and crime under a level of control?

For as much as we argue about whether or not the SoE is justified, nothing else is doing in de country. The government of today has yet to govern 1 day - not 1 day. They have been making excuses, backtracking and pointing fingers from the moment they were sworn in. Now they call an SoE and still making up things as they go along.

How about they show us or give us a glimpse of what will happen after the SoE is raised. Believe you me, they just cannot remove the curfew and SoE all "willy-nilly". They absolutely have no plan and no idea how to develop an effective strategy for the short-term and the even worst for the long-term. Listening to "them" you can see and hear that they are out of ideas and up Shyte creek with 1-ply toilet paper.

So as much as you talking and asking people to name solutions, where are the government programs and initiative that they areputting in place to ease the country out of the SoE?

Until you can point to that, anyone here do not need to have solutions for criticizing and even if they present a solution it does not need to be perfect.

 :yellowcard:
« Last Edit: September 15, 2011, 12:06:50 PM by elan »
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Offline D.H.W

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Re: Limited State of Emergency....
« Reply #858 on: September 15, 2011, 01:56:00 PM »
Laventille man shot dead by police
Thursday 15th September, 2011
 
The first killing by police since the start of the State of Emergency took place in Laventille around 10:30pm on Wednesday.
 
The victim has been identified as 24 year old Shemell Henry of Erica Street,  Rock City in Laventille. He was chasing after Calil Melville in the Eastern Quarry area.
 
Mr Henry is reported to have fired several shots at Mr Melville when Inter Agency Task Force officers on patrol came upon the chase, and were fired upon.
 
The officers returned fire and Mr Henry was shot.
 
He was taken to the Port of Spain General Hospital but died. Mr Melville was treated at hospital for gunshot wounds sustained while running from Henry.

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Offline weary1969

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Re: Limited State of Emergency....
« Reply #859 on: September 15, 2011, 02:06:38 PM »
Laventille man shot dead by police
Thursday 15th September, 2011
 
The first killing by police since the start of the State of Emergency took place in Laventille around 10:30pm on Wednesday.
 
The victim has been identified as 24 year old Shemell Henry of Erica Street,  Rock City in Laventille. He was chasing after Calil Melville in the Eastern Quarry area.
 
Mr Henry is reported to have fired several shots at Mr Melville when Inter Agency Task Force officers on patrol came upon the chase, and were fired upon.
 
The officers returned fire and Mr Henry was shot.
 
He was taken to the Port of Spain General Hospital but died. Mr Melville was treated at hospital for gunshot wounds sustained while running from Henry.

http://www.ctntworld.com/LocalArticles.aspx?id=31816&utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter


How long 2 u SOE supporters feel dat these bandits go stay inside b4 they strt bck 2 shoot at each other? If d time was spend on finding evidence on these criminals we would have a longterm solution 2 d crime problem.
Today you're the dog, tomorrow you're the hydrant - so be good to others - it comes back!"

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Re: Limited State of Emergency....
« Reply #860 on: September 15, 2011, 03:09:25 PM »
Great article by Martin Daly... touched on every possible point with insight, intelligence and a healthy dose of impartiality.

As for the SoE talk... I really ent have the patience.

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Re: Limited State of Emergency....
« Reply #861 on: September 15, 2011, 03:13:47 PM »
ah addin some flavour to de mix....scotland yard investigating issa and georgie
soon ah go b ah lean mean bulling machine.

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Re: Limited State of Emergency....
« Reply #862 on: September 15, 2011, 04:04:31 PM »
Shotgun, ammo, cocaine found at Maracas
Thursday 15th September, 2011
 
North Eastern Division police have recovered 1 homemade shotgun and five 12-gauge cartridges wrapped in camouflage clothing at an abandoned building in the Maracas Bay area.
 
According the Trinidad and Tobago Police Service's Public Information Officer, ASP Joanne Archie, the find was made in an exercise conducted around 1:30am on Thursday at Hotel Road.
 
"They also found one kilogramme of cocaine with a street value of $3000, and 3 kilogrammes of marijuana with a street value of $15,000. No one was arrested."
 
ASP Archie also confirmed that investigations are continuing into an incident in which a pouch of marijuana was discovered by two women who returned from the United States via Jamaica on Tuesday.
 
On landing at the Piarco International Airport, the 30 year old woman and her 32 year old sister, both of Friendship Village in Ste Madeleine, were approached by a man who told them that he was a security officer and an illegal substance was detected in their luggage.
 
"The ladies became suspicious and refused to accompany him and the man left. They then left for their home at San Fernando and upon arrival at their home and checking their luggage, they discovered a yellow and green pouch which contained 2 kilogrammes of compressed marijuana with a street value of $55,000. A neighbour, who is a police officer, was informed and took possession of the drugs. The Ste Madeleine Police visited the scene, interviewed persons and enquiries are continuing into that report."

http://www.ctntworld.com/LocalArticles.aspx?id=31830&utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter
« Last Edit: September 15, 2011, 04:07:31 PM by D.H.W »
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Re: Limited State of Emergency....
« Reply #863 on: September 15, 2011, 04:06:05 PM »
Police release videos depicting criminal activity on Nelson Street
Thursday 15th September, 2011
 
The public has been urged to come forward with information after the Police Service released a number of video clips showing criminal activity on Nelson Street.
 
The video clippings were released following an emergency meeting of the National Security Council on Tuesday.
 
To view the video clips provided by the Trinidad and Tobago Police Service, click the following links:

Clip 1
http://video.ctntworld.com/view/866/ttps-nelson-st-criminal-activity-clip-1/
Clip 2
http://video.ctntworld.com/view/867/ttps-nelson-st-criminal-activity-clip-2/
Clip 3
http://video.ctntworld.com/view/868/ttps-nelson-st-criminal-activity-clip-3/
Clip 4
http://video.ctntworld.com/view/869/ttps-nelson-st-criminal-activity-clip-4/
Clip 5
http://video.ctntworld.com/view/869/ttps-nelson-st-criminal-activity-clip-4/

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Offline D.H.W

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Re: Limited State of Emergency....
« Reply #864 on: September 15, 2011, 05:13:44 PM »
Alyuh the port getting shake up!!! . they just find a container full with marijuana on the Port
« Last Edit: September 15, 2011, 06:49:04 PM by D.H.W »
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Re: Limited State of Emergency....
« Reply #865 on: September 15, 2011, 06:48:09 PM »
Major drug find at Plipdeco
Thursday 15th September, 2011
 
A major drug bust in Point Lisas was made on Thursday afternoon when a 40 foot container of marijuana was discovered at the Point Lisas Industrial Port Development Corporation Limited (PLIPDECO).
 
The Criminal Intelligence Unit, Customs Marine Interdiction Unit and the Plipdeco Tactical Unit made the find at around 5:20pm.
 
This is said to be the 4th drug find for the year at this port.
 
Senior Superintendent Martinez of the CIU is spearheading the investigation together with President of the Port, Ashley Taylor.
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Offline lefty

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Re: Limited State of Emergency....
« Reply #866 on: September 15, 2011, 07:12:20 PM »
Alyuh the port getting shake up!!! . they just find a container full with marijuana on the Port

after d coke and d guns done gone steups.......dais bait for d gullible if dey did do dis d minute dey call d SOE ah woulda aplaud dem as it stands now it jus feels to far after d fact
I pity the fool....

Offline zuluwarrior

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Re: Limited State of Emergency....
« Reply #867 on: September 15, 2011, 07:13:56 PM »
This is what i cant understand with the trinbago police, why they did not let the owner come and collect the containers so they could arrest them chups?
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Re: Limited State of Emergency....
« Reply #868 on: September 15, 2011, 07:16:17 PM »
Alyuh the port getting shake up!!! . they just find a container full with marijuana on the Port

after d coke and d guns done gone steups.......dais bait for d gullible if dey did do dis d minute dey call d SOE ah woulda aplaud dem as it stands now it jus feels to far after d fact

Well seeing we dont know when the container come in , we cant say that yet. But i know is years now them thing coming in and people turning a blind eye.
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Offline lefty

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Re: Limited State of Emergency....
« Reply #869 on: September 15, 2011, 08:08:32 PM »
Alyuh the port getting shake up!!! . they just find a container full with marijuana on the Port

after d coke and d guns done gone steups.......dais bait for d gullible if dey did do dis d minute dey call d SOE ah woulda aplaud dem as it stands now it jus feels to far after d fact

Well seeing we dont know when the container come in , we cant say that yet. But i know is years now them thing coming in and people turning a blind eye.

dias d point right dey man is years now, people hearin dese ting............ah coordinated operation planned for and executed jus as the SOE start, I sure, woulda net not jus weed but odder illegal goods.......... d only ting yuh woulda have to ban cellphones and calls in general for police and maybe  :whistling: definitely :whistling:  not inform d govt AND opposition (to rid us of any hint ah bias here :) ) but we know dat not goin to happen............who is d "Honest" policeman woulda plan an' run dat anyways ???
« Last Edit: September 15, 2011, 08:15:39 PM by lefty »
I pity the fool....

 

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