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Author Topic: State of Emergency....Good concept, poor execution?  (Read 4541 times)

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Offline Football supporter

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State of Emergency....Good concept, poor execution?
« on: August 24, 2011, 10:42:04 PM »
So far, there have been very interesting debates on this site concerning the SOE, but I have been disapointed with the debates and interviews on TV. It seems to me that immediately someone opens their mouth, what you hear is not constructed arguments or opinions, but comments directly reflecting their political standpoint. A good example was an interview between that news guy Dominic and a senior police union guy. (Sorry, I'm a bit rusty on the names!) The police guy immediately began talking about the strain on the police and how the govt expect them to give 100% when they won't pay more than 5% increase on wages. Basically, the interview was about industrial relations.

Now, all this is important, but I feel the immediate issues should be discussed without political rhetoric, as difficult as it may be. So I have questions about the SOE, and I have no political affiliation or preference. Perhaps here, we can have a non partisan debate?

In my opinion, the State of Emergency, though extreme, could be justified under the following conditions:

The government set clear, public targets such as 500 guns to be taken off the streets, dismantling of every major gang in the 26 designated hot spots, arrests of 10 businessmen involved in the drug trade, seizure of at least TT$5 million in suspect funds, seizure of 26 properties used in gang or drug crime, seizure of 5 boats used in drug/gun smuggling, seizure of TT$5 million street value of drugs, arrest of 20 homicide suspects.

Now these targets may not all have been achieved, but you set goals that are realistic. Before you launch your SOE, you compile lists of target criminals. You may not have solid evidence that these people have commited crimes, however, many people, including police, strongly suspect certain people. Usually you have to wait to obtain solid evidence before you can even obtain a search warrant. However, the SOE circumvents this. An example is the youth who got caught with $20 million in cocaine. The story is that this 19 year old airport worker has an expensive pimped up ride far beyond his means. Now this isn't sufficient to obtain a search warrant, but basic enquiries would confirm this as suspicious, so under the SOE you search and arrest.

If the govt can say at the end of the SOE, well we wanted to seize 500 guns, but we only got 387 but we exceeded our homicide suspect target and arrested 31, the country would deem this a success.

But without targets, how can we know?

My second problem is timing and communication. For those of us who didn't experience the coup, this SOE will be the biggest civil event in our memory. It will still be discussed in 20 years time. We are experiencing an historic moment that will be taught in schools in the future. Given the magnitude of this, why wasn't it planned and communicated better?

As mentioned, a target list should have been compiled. All police, army and essential services leave should have been cancelled (no one would have suspected an SOE, but maybe a major police operation). As Kamla announced the SOE, that should have been the trigger for a massive strike on targets to take place. She effectively gave bandits 3 hours warning. I carried on liming on Ariapita for 90 mins after the announcement! On monday morning, news of gun seizures, arrests etc should have been announced, thus gaining the support of the public. 

Cabinet should have drawn up contingency plans such as medical emergency procedures, traffic management, international travel scenarios etc. Information distribution should have been planned with a designated government spokesman giving statements on tv at 7 am. 1pm, 7pm and 10pm. When the SOE was launched, full and complete handouts should have been distributed to media. Full page ads in Mondays papers should have explained to the people the reasons for this and how it will effect people. A govt BBM and text message should have been sent out. Detention centres such as Army Barracks should have been created to ease the burden on the already overloaded prison service. Emergency courts should have been in place to begin the legal process. A squad of court appointed lawyers should have been created to advise detainees. Independent observers should have been appointed to ensure the geneva convention was observed (To be honest, I'm not sure if the Geneva Convention applies to this situation, but there must be some international safeguard of citizens under marshall law or a state of emergency)

Thirdly, it is incredible that the police commissioner was not advised or included in the planning. At the time of the SOE announcement, there was no acting commissioner. This is crazy. Gibbs should have been involved days before in planning raids and targeting criminals. This has made his position untenable. The world's highest paid policeman was not aware of the biggest law enforcement operation in this country for 20 years. Gibbs must be extremely embarrassed. Did someone say "well, wait, shouldn't we involve Gibbs in this?" only to receive a reply such as "nah, doh study Gibbs, we doh need him"

For all the good intentions (and we really aren't sure what they are) after 4 nights of curfew, we still aren't sure what we are allowed to do. Can I travel from St Joseph along the EMR to Tunapuna at 11pm? None of these are hotspots, so is it safe? We saw bars, and even KFC, open in Debe, so is it business as usual in cold spots?

Better, clearer information should be provided. TV crews and reporters should be accompanying police operations so we can see the results. Ministers should stop trying to cover up and admit mistakes have been made. Regardless of the results, the electorate will remember the lies and blunders.

The opposition should have been consulted and should be 100% supportive.

And how on earth, if there are, say, 500 arrests, will these people be processed after the SOE? are there enough lawyers? How many police will be off the streets writing paperwork and attending court? Is there sufficient room in the prisons?  There will be a legal log jam after the SOE. When the police continue their usual services, will they be quietly told not to arrest people as there is a court waiting time of 12 months?

To me, if I was leading the police union, I would be eagerly awaiting the end of the SOE so I could call more days of rest and reflection. After all, many police could legitimately claim exhaustion and stress. This would cause chaos in the courts. Imagine every arresting officer due in court on monday calling in sick. Next day he goes to work and all of the arresting officers in tuesdays cases are off sick? Meanwhile, the lawyers will be richer than the drug barons!

The SOE may have been a good concept and may well reap great rewards for the public. However, the execution leaves a lot to be desired. 

Offline Bakes

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Re: State of Emergency....Good concept, poor execution?
« Reply #1 on: August 24, 2011, 11:26:30 PM »
I don't think the government could have set numerical targets.  Where I would have seen this justified is in the following circumstances:

1. A credible threat to the public at-large (mass murderer on the loose, shootouts between rival gangs with members of the public significantly at-risk of being caught in the middle).

2. Credible information giving rise to probable cause that a crime has been committed, or about to be committed, or that individuals are engaged in criminal activity-- and that the SoE is necessary to prevent the destruction of evidence or the flight of the individuals in question.

3. Credible threat to the public from external actors or from acts of nature, and the SoE is necessary to mitigate or avert a national disaster.


As I understand it... their argument is closest to the second, but based on the early returns this seems lacking in substantiation... they have nothing to back it up.  It early still though, so let's see what the next two weeks brings.
« Last Edit: August 25, 2011, 12:01:13 AM by Bakes »

Offline Socapro

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Re: State of Emergency....Good concept, poor execution?
« Reply #2 on: August 24, 2011, 11:27:10 PM »
Even Panday basically says the same thing in this interview!

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/817eE7YxXEY" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/817eE7YxXEY</a>
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Offline Die_Hard

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Re: State of Emergency....Good concept, poor execution?
« Reply #3 on: August 25, 2011, 02:27:34 AM »
Phillip E. Alexander
Political Suicide.... (on the State of Emergency)

As if intent on snatching defeat from the jaws of victory, in one act Kamla Persad Bissessar has turned an entire nation against her and her government and has raised the stocks of people who are no longer even in the political arena. Now all of a sudden men like Roget and Panday are feeling the loving embrace of new friends as people warm up to the concept of them, or as the saying goes, the enemy of my enemy is my friend. What could have prompted this exercise in stupidity?

Someone said to me the funny thing is if they had set out to fail then they succeeded and I have to agree. Was this the results of a good idea gone bad?

Even men like the venerable Ken Gordon and stalwarts like Martin Daly, former supporters of this same type of draconian measures are twisting and turning to find ways to justify or even understand what exactly it is the government is trying to do. The business community is counting its losses in the millions of dollars, and the small man as usual is being hit the hardest. All businesses that exist for a 'night' trade usually employ hourly paid workers who are not getting paid now because there is no work. To compound the matter the government has chosen to do this right before the expensive school books and supplies semester, making this a double whammy for the hardest hit. Had they thought this through I am sure that common sense would have prevailed but was anyone thinking?

One of the biggest casualties of this fiasco is that the strongest weapon that a government has in its arsenal to bring order back to a disrupted society has been diluted and neutered by this missue. Akin to burning down your house to rid it of roaches, using a state of emergency to control crime is as clear an admission of failure as anything could possibly be. Despite nights of torching and looting London never declared a State of Emergency nor did they institute a curfew. They put more officers on the ground with instructions to enforce the law. Why couldn't that have worked here?

I have been saying since May 24th that whoever is advising this Prime Minister is working dilligently against her and has as their designs the making of her into a fool. If I were to advise her now it would be to call off this state of emergency immediately and call whatever wins you have a victory. Put laws in place to follow on from here in a strong and positive manner. Invite the US to man our coasts, borders, ports and airways as our drug trafficking problem is a symptom of their drug consumption problem so it ought to be their responsibility on their dime. As we seem to clearly know the hot spots we should build police precincts and spread mobile police posts throughout them, especially at all entrances and exits to make shutting down one zone that much easier. Build the gun court and announce zero tolerance on illegal guns. Launch it with the proposed forty eight hour amnesty so who get 'ketch' after look for what they get.

Madame Prime Minister I do not know what it would take to salvage your reputation, your legacy and your government now, but ending this charade would be a massive step in the right direction. Fire your entire canbinet and start from scratch. There are good people in the society who are willing to serve their country, men and women of strong reputation and moral fiber, surround yourself with these. Make the eradication of poverty and crime your watch words, your focus and your mantra, and take steps to put things in place to show that you mean it. Create the proposed Second Chance Foundation to convert petty criminals into contributing members of society, and start to dismantle the walls of racial tension that have been building since May last year.

There is no time like the present to begin the work of undoing this serious cock up that your Cabinet and advisors are responsible for, and the faster you fire them all and start over the better.

Offline Dutty

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Re: State of Emergency....Good concept, poor execution?
« Reply #4 on: August 25, 2011, 07:19:55 AM »
I have been saying since May 24th that whoever is advising this Prime Minister is working dilligently against her and has as their designs the making of her into a fool.

Ah wonder if is Jack was advisin she
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Offline weary1969

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Re: State of Emergency....Good concept, poor execution?
« Reply #5 on: August 25, 2011, 10:11:19 AM »
I have been saying since May 24th that whoever is advising this Prime Minister is working dilligently against her and has as their designs the making of her into a fool.

Ah wonder if is Jack was advisin she


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Offline ribbit

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Re: State of Emergency....Good concept, poor execution?
« Reply #6 on: August 25, 2011, 10:31:14 AM »
FS, with regards to your first point, de traffic cops up here set targets or quotas all de time. and lo and behold is no 4king surprise to anyone dey reach dey quota. when de boss raise de quota, de margin of tolerance get narrower. the result - the facade of management. no offence, but yuh exactly wrong on your first point.

Offline Football supporter

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Re: State of Emergency....Good concept, poor execution?
« Reply #7 on: August 25, 2011, 12:00:22 PM »
FS, with regards to your first point, de traffic cops up here set targets or quotas all de time. and lo and behold is no 4king surprise to anyone dey reach dey quota. when de boss raise de quota, de margin of tolerance get narrower. the result - the facade of management. no offence, but yuh exactly wrong on your first point.

I hear you, and under normal situations I would agree, but this is an entirely different situation. If you embark upon a major operation such as an SOE, you must know what you want to achieve and you know you will be held accountable. Therefore, the only way to judge success and therefore be vilified by the public is to set targets. A gun seizure is a gun seizure, that can't be affected by a reduction in tolerance. And it al;ready appears that they will arrest anyone they can, from a small time thief to a gang leader, so, again, there is no tolerence being exhibited.

Offline warmonga

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Re: State of Emergency....Good concept, poor execution?
« Reply #8 on: August 26, 2011, 12:32:45 AM »
Am starting to think its poor execution pro .. the reason why is that I hear the arrest 120  + ppl but so far and only two ppl charge for a lil weed..lol I eh wah hear bout arrest I wah see how much get charge for something.. so far babbylon boops eh realy done nothing big.. I dont see nothing so far to put a dent on crime...

war
I backing it still though flush out all dem wutless pieces of garbage we have running round wid weapons and clean dem up.. now dats wat I wanna see..
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Offline Socapro

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Re: State of Emergency....Good concept, poor execution?
« Reply #9 on: August 26, 2011, 12:45:41 AM »
Am starting to think its poor execution pro .. the reason why is that I hear the arrest 120  + ppl but so far and only two ppl charge for a lil weed..lol I eh wah hear bout arrest I wah see how much get charge for something.. so far babbylon boops eh realy done nothing big.. I dont see nothing so far to put a dent on crime...

war
I backing it still though flush out all dem wutless pieces of garbage we have running round wid weapons and clean dem up.. now dats wat I wanna see..

Nothing much will change until they get the balls to flush out the big boys who bringing in the drugs & the weapons.
Many of them have decent business fronts and are friends of the police & politicians! Reducing the crime will mean some very respectable looking people who might be friends with some politicians will need to get locked-up and the key thrown away!
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Offline Brownsugar

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Re: State of Emergency....Good concept, poor execution?
« Reply #10 on: August 26, 2011, 04:17:50 AM »
This is day 5.  Since Sunday night when I saw Kamla on mih TV screen I just have this feeling that I can't describe.  Its an uneasiness I can't quite put a finger on.  And it is probably stemming from the fact that this government can't seem to do anything without screwing it up one way or another.  So how could I have faith that they would get this major action right??

And ah think ah could pin point the moment mih uneasiness about this started.  It started when Kams announced to all and sundry that a state of emergency was to start at midnight Sunday but the proclamation is on its way to the President to be signed.  The sequence of events just doh make sense.  It smacks of lacking protocol (and this government gets an A grade for that almost every time), it gave the citizens (especially the criminals) a 4 hour head start.  Why didn't the President make the announcement??    Perhaps he was otherwise occupied.  It had a band launching Sunday night?? 

Then as the thread I started that night states, Kamla said it was a limited state of emergency when clearly it was not so.  In the days since then I've asked my self, how is it a government LOADED with lawyers could appear to be bungling something this important??   This is a constitutional issue.  How could these people not be on point about it??  This is not dolly house we playing.

Further, in the days since the announcement we've seen men and women being arrested by the hundreds in areas that are accustomed to police beating down their doors.  So my question on this is, did we need a state of emergency to raid the areas AGAIN??

Also, from listening to all the chatter over the past 4 - 5 days most people are expecting to see a "big fish" or 2 or 3 or 4 being caught up during this period.  Well here's the thing.  If that was going to happen, wouldn't it have happened already??  If the intelligence was available why not execute it within the first 24 - 48 hours??  When dey goh arrest the "big fish"?  On day 15??

The government not going and arrest no "big fish".  I really, really, really hope dey prove mih wrong but hey these are the same people who are using every weapon they have to keep Ish and Steve here.  Speaking of which, what is stopping the government from putting them two fellas on a plane right now during this state of emergency and sending dem to Uncle Sam??  But I digress....

If what society really wants to see during this state of emergency does not come to fruition, I wont be disappointed and/or surprised. I would be very upset that this government would suspend our rights because somebody woke up one morning and decided this was a good idea. 

I've said it before and I'll say it again.  Kamla and she crew of idiots have no idea of how to run this country.  If they screw this up (and it seems like they are on their way to achieving that), they would have lost all moral authority to run this place (lack of morals is another thing dey real familiar with).   And there isn't one damn thing I would be able to do about it....steups!! 

But let's wait and see.  I might be pleasantly surprised.....(I really doubt that).
« Last Edit: August 26, 2011, 04:22:02 AM by Brownsugar »
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Offline lefty

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Re: State of Emergency....Good concept, poor execution?
« Reply #11 on: August 26, 2011, 06:12:49 AM »
um one ah dey financier is allegedly ah whale of a fish so.................
I pity the fool....

Offline rotatopoti3

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Re: State of Emergency....Good concept, poor execution?
« Reply #12 on: August 26, 2011, 06:53:36 AM »
i doe know..i find it strange....i meeting people on d street dat happy with the SOE so far....
Ah say it, how ah see it

Offline D.H.W

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Re: State of Emergency....Good concept, poor execution?
« Reply #13 on: August 26, 2011, 06:56:35 AM »
Am starting to think its poor execution pro .. the reason why is that I hear the arrest 120  + ppl but so far and only two ppl charge for a lil weed..lol I eh wah hear bout arrest I wah see how much get charge for something.. so far babbylon boops eh realy done nothing big.. I dont see nothing so far to put a dent on crime...

Most being charged under the anti gang legislation, if you in a gang you can be arrested, or if you are known to be harboring a gang members , or know his whereabouts , and don't tell the police. Police don't need no weed or guns to arrest you once they can prove you in gang.
« Last Edit: August 26, 2011, 06:58:23 AM by D.H.W »
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Offline dinho

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Re: State of Emergency....Good concept, poor execution?
« Reply #14 on: August 26, 2011, 07:10:48 AM »
i doe know..i find it strange....i meeting people on d street dat happy with the SOE so far....

Yes, well thats because a large number of people who post on this board live abroad and are disconnected with the daily reality that exists here. I've been there as well, reading papers online gives a skewed impression of life in Trinidad.

Another set will naturally complain about every and anything regardless on a daily basis and yet another set are fixed in their political agendas.

Watch them come and jump all over my case for saying that now.
         

Offline D.H.W

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Re: State of Emergency....Good concept, poor execution?
« Reply #15 on: August 26, 2011, 07:24:47 AM »
i doe know..i find it strange....i meeting people on d street dat happy with the SOE so far....

Yes, well thats because a large number of people who post on this board live abroad and are disconnected with the daily reality that exists here. I've been there as well, reading papers online gives a skewed impression of life in Trinidad.

Another set will naturally complain about every and anything regardless on a daily basis and yet another set are fixed in their political agendas.

Watch them come and jump all over my case for saying that now.

Dinho i agree with you there 100% , take long for somebody to say that.
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truetrini

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Re: State of Emergency....Good concept, poor execution?
« Reply #16 on: August 26, 2011, 07:35:18 AM »
Will another six years of misery reign?
By David Nakhid

http://www.trinidadexpress.com/commentaries/Will_another_six_years_of_misery_reign_-128447953.html

Story Created: Aug 26, 2011 at 1:44 AM ECT
 Story Updated: Aug 26, 2011 at 1:44 AM ECT

In case you missed Clarence Rambharat's excellent article, or if as all traits uniquely Trinbagonian, you agreed with and quickly went on your way lamenting how the curfew was eating into your social life or disrupting your late-night sweat, I am here again, inspired by Rambharat's piece to continue on the thread I started almost six years ago, concerning the root cause of the horrific crime situation that has gripped and will continue to plague our twin islands.

I have seen references aligned to my initial opinions—some vague, others more explicit (Tewarie, Shah, Fazeer and now Rambharat), which makes me confident that the awareness is there and being circulated among the populace. So, how come the dis-connect? Why would the politicians and the law authorities purposely ignore what most people on the street from Behind the Bridge to Beirut already know?

As someone in the midst of the so-called Arab Spring, one thing became patently obvious—these corrupt politicians and lawless law authorities are not going to just acquiesce to your demands, much less the mutterings and writings of a few enlightened and un-afraid Trinbagonians. There needs to be concerted action and yes, at the risk of once again being called a troublemaker, that concerted action cannot always be non-violent. Impossible! Who within the present establishment (social and political) is going to challenge our upper-class, drug-peddling mobsters?

The People's National Movement did not do it from its inception, the two corrupt entities so intrinsically linked, the death of one (yes we can!) surely meaning the downfall of the other. The United National Congress? It invariably tried to match and, in some cases, outdo the PNM for corruption, extravagance and nepotism! The present People's Partnership? To borrow a mobster's phrase, "Forget about it.'' Its only agendas, certainly not attuned to the demands of the people, are about retention of political power, the political stench so stagnant now that the will for any action can only be targeted at the underclass. Hence... tah dah... the curfew in "hot spot areas''.

Well, if you know, as most right-minded Trinbagonians know, that the crime situation is a direct result of the booming drug trade that is financed and proliferated by these upper-class mobsters, then the curfew hot spots should be Westmoorings, not Laventille; Fairways, not Trincity; the Marina in West Trinidad where a shipload of cocaine was tracked by UK law officers, not the Dial in Arima. But that ain't happening! Not by Kamla Persad-Bissessar or Dr Keith Rowley or Patrick Manning or Jack Warner! All seemingly impotent when it comes to even touching on this issue in the right and honest way.

The Trinidad and Tobago Football Federation (TTFF) called me a racist six years ago when I singled out members of a community behind the drug trade, as if I cared one iota about their ethnicity! If I had mentioned that mostly Afro-Trinbagonians were involved in the actual killings taking place, would Jack Warner and the TTFF have made those statements about me?

Nice to know that the TTFF then collected some cool millions in sponsorship from businesses owned by some members of this same community. But this has become much more than Jack and his TTFF cohorts selling their souls at the expense of Trinbagonians. This is wake up time, Trinbagonians! Unless we as a people are willing to place our politicians and law-makers under all necessary pressures to move on this insidious and deadly drug trade, they will continue to do exactly what they are doing... nothing!

As our upper-class drug mobsters continue to evolve, branching out into fields of higher education, bestowing honours and titles, while surrounded by our salivating politicians and hands out businessmen.

The noxious political climate serves as fertile breeding ground for them to flourish, and flourish they will, unless we decide as a people to do whatever is necessary to bring them down... like asking the hard questions. Where is Cadiz, Daaga, Kambon, Sat? Busy tripping over each other in trying to show who is more African or Indian or whatever, oblivious to the reality of our shared destiny as Trinbagonians.

I could give a rat's behind about any Arrival Day for any community when it seems that every moment requires survival day for all Trinbagonians. Where are the good, civic-minded people of this same community, who called me six years ago to express their helplessness at being associated with these mobsters because of a shared ethnicity? The time is now, Trinbagonians, or will another six years of misery reign? Let's all take the actions and sacrifices we know are necessary to bring down these upper class mobsters along with their political allies!

Offline kicker

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Re: State of Emergency....Good concept, poor execution?
« Reply #17 on: August 26, 2011, 07:35:54 AM »
Yes, well thats because a large number of people who post on this board live abroad and are disconnected with the daily reality that exists here. I've been there as well, reading papers online gives a skewed impression of life in Trinidad.

Another set will naturally complain about every and anything regardless on a daily basis and yet another set are fixed in their political agendas.

Watch them come and jump all over my case for saying that now.


I suppose that when yuh far away, it easier to be philosophical and think long term...When yuh in the middle of the action, iz a different scene.  I think Gov't PR has been really poor and as a result has further fed the skepticism surrounding this thing.  Also it's pretty clear from the responses that the gov't does not have the trust and faith of a large part of the public to make good decisions.  Is that the public's fault?  A SOE is a very big deal that could have very harmful repercussions, and I think the public (at home and abroad) is skeptical about whether the upside will outweigh the downside at the end of the day, and hence there are legitimate questions over the necessity of the SOE.

I think it's an unfair characterization to say that people overseas just criticizing regardless and for the sake of it...and I eh jumping on yuh back... I also imagine that for every person on the street who is happy with it, there is one or more who isn't or who is indifferent.  People who I have spoken to at home about it aren't happy with it...
« Last Edit: August 26, 2011, 07:50:41 AM by kicker »
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truetrini

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Re: State of Emergency....Good concept, poor execution?
« Reply #18 on: August 26, 2011, 07:37:40 AM »
Emergency break
By Kevin Baldeosingh

Story Created: Aug 26, 2011 at 1:44 AM ECT
 Story Updated: Aug 26, 2011 at 1:44 AM ECT

With the imposition of the state of emergency, which all right-thinking citizens support, we will soon see the complete eradication of crime, poverty and halitosis in Trinidad and Tobago.

This is because the People's Partnership Government is the most efficient, ethical and enteric administration this country has ever had.

I am saying this, not only because it is God's truth, but because Section 14 (1) (b) of the Emergency Powers Regulations 2011 says that, when there's a state of emergency, "No person shall endeavour, whether orally or otherwise, to influence public opinion in a manner likely to be prejudicial to public safety and order." And, as regular readers of this column would know, I am very enthusiastic about endeavouring orally, as well as otherwise.

Since this habit can now get me arrested, however, I hereby unreservedly withdraw every critical statement I have ever made about the People's Partnership Government since they came into power about 60 weeks ago, which means I have to withdraw about 56 weeks' worth of statements.

You see, under a State of Emergency, bad-talking the Government (which has only the best interests of all law-abiding citizens at heart) could be construed as a jailable offence.

And I must express my shock, horror and dismay that Senior Counsel Martin Daly does not know this. Anyone who tries to influence public opinion in a manner which would prejudice public safety, by spouting ill-considered views about having a well-organised State of Emergency where "jacket-and-tie fellas" would be among those arrested, could be arrested for encouraging disorder.

The good thing is the police wouldn't even need an arrest warrant to arrest offenders, just a baton. This is good because it saves both time and money (though it does cause significant wear and tear on batons).

We can also save money on lawyers, whom all right-thinking citizens want to do away with, anyway. Of course, such lawyers do not include the widely-respected Attorney General, who last Tuesday night put Dominic Kalipersad firmly in his place, when the TV6 manager foolishly asked the Honourable Anand Ramlogan why the Government had said that the state of emergency was a limited one, when it was really nationwide.

The honourable, magnificent and brilliant Attorney General explained that the Government had never said any such thing, proving beyond all shadow of doubt that no one except People's Partnership supporters hears or reads properly.

That is why we need a competent, transparent and benevolent regime like the People's Partnership to tell us what to hear, see and lick.

After all, it is beyond belief that an administration with such brilliant legal minds like Mr Ramlogan's, Former Most Respected and Competent Justice Herbert Volney's and, of course, the Extremely Honourable Caring Prime Minister Kamla Persad-Bissessar's herself—where was I? Right, it is beyond belief that such brilliant minds could have described the state of emergency as a limited one when, as Mr Ramlogan pointed out, the President's proclamation itself clearly stated that the state of emergency applied to T&T.

Ergo, the only logical conclusion was that Prime Minister Her Honourable Majesty Kamla Persad-Bissessar deliberately spoke about a limited state of emergency in order to lull the criminogenic elements into a false sense of security.

This is proven by the fact that the hot spots listed on Sunday had become a different list by Tuesday, after the Government's intelligence (which, of course, is highly intelligent even though Reshmi Ramnarine isn't heading it) had confirmed where the criminals had migrated to.

The fact that all arrests so far have been in the usual places where black people live would further lull criminals into an even falser sense of security.

As Foreign Affairs and Communications Minister the Honourable Surujrattan Rambachan—who is known to be the most unprejudiced, meritocratic and non-cussing member of Cabinet—has said, the State of Emergency is just part of a wider plan.

Although he didn't say so (because he is such a humble Hindu, like all Hindus) it's surely also part of a longer plan.

Already, the Most Wonderfullest Prime Minister Kamla Persad-Bissessar has announced plans to start hanging criminals again, which would surely make T&T crime-free because God has ordered it and a dead criminal cannot commit any crime, except perhaps polluting the air as he rots.

Even so, I'm sure the Environmental Management Authority, under the chairmanship of the Still Honourable Kelvin Ramnath, has a plan to deal with such contingencies, which would be effectively publicised by his fellow board member, journalist Paolo Kernahan.

I say all this, not just from a pure and sincere heart, but because Section 3 (2) (a) of the Emergency Regulations state that the President can make orders for "censorship and the control and suppression of publications, writings, maps, plans, photographs, communications and means of communication". And, since I am a professional writer, if I were censored I would no longer be able to afford Chunky KitKats. But I needn't worry about that since crime, unlike God, is now non-existent.


So much for the disconnect bullshit talk!

truetrini

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Re: State of Emergency....Good concept, poor execution?
« Reply #19 on: August 26, 2011, 07:38:03 AM »
i doe know..i find it strange....i meeting people on d street dat happy with the SOE so far....

Yes, well thats because a large number of people who post on this board live abroad and are disconnected with the daily reality that exists here. I've been there as well, reading papers online gives a skewed impression of life in Trinidad.

Another set will naturally complain about every and anything regardless on a daily basis and yet another set are fixed in their political agendas.

Watch them come and jump all over my case for saying that now.

Nonsense talk!    Most of the PP BLIND supporters will say that yuh want the SOE to fail, yuh is ah PNM dis and dat...FACT is they jes like dem old republicans here in de US, if yuh doh support dey measures yuh not patriotic, yuh disconnected etc.

Truth is I have 3 PP supporters in my house RIGHT NOW!  And they find the SoE is BULLSHIT!  They say they regret staining they finger and now dey souls for this shit ass PP government.
« Last Edit: August 26, 2011, 07:57:11 AM by Trinity Cross »

truetrini

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Re: State of Emergency....Good concept, poor execution?
« Reply #20 on: August 26, 2011, 08:07:13 AM »
Side-stepping truth over emergency

Story Created: Aug 26, 2011 at 1:44 AM ECT
 Story Updated: Aug 26, 2011 at 1:44 AM ECT

http://www.trinidadexpress.com/commentaries/Side-stepping_truth_over_emergency-128447968.html

In war, the famous saying goes, the first casualty is truth — and it seems that a similar rule applies to a State of Emergency.

Ever since the State-owned media was given an "exclusive" on the announcement of the State of Emergency last Sunday, the Government has been striving mightily to spin even the most trivial aspects of the current situation.

On the TV6 news last Wednesday, Attorney General Anand Ramlogan, confronted by persistent questions from veteran journalist Dominic Kalipersad, could not even bring himself to admit that Prime Minister Kamla Persad-Bissessar had misspoken in declaring a "limited" State of Emergency. Instead, Mr Ramlogan insisted that everyone had misunderstood what the Government meant.

Then we have the official who holds the main responsibility for executing the Government's orders under a State of Emergency — Commissioner of Police Dwayne Gibbs. On Wednesday, the CoP categorically declared that the entire country was under the curfew. On Thursday, both the T&T Police Service and the National Security Ministry sent out statements specifying just the six areas to which the 9 p.m. to 5 a.m. restriction applies.

From the very start, Commissioner Gibbs' absence from the country when the State of Emergency was declared undermined his authority.

AG Ramlogan at a news briefing on Wednesday explained that the decision was made suddenly in order to avert an "immediate threat and endangerment of public safety". That might explain why Commissioner Gibbs wasn't in the loop, but not why the Government didn't make sure that Acting CoP Stephen Williams wasn't properly appointed, instead of retroactively so.

More importantly, however, Mr Ramlogan provided no evidence of what this threat was. Although national security issues would understandably prevent the AG from giving details, it is reasonable to ask how a major crisis could be averted with not one arrest?

However, Section 9 (1) of the Constitution mandates that "Within three days of the making of the Proclamation, the President shall deliver to the Speaker for presentation to the House of Representatives a statement setting out the specific grounds on which the decision to declare the existence of a state of public emergency was based." Next Friday, the AG will not be able to act as though his mere word is sufficient onto the day thereof.

This isn't just a mere matter of dotting i's and crossing t's. When a Government takes the serious step of suspending the constitutional rights of citizens in order to reduce criminal activity, it should have a well-organised strategy to root out the main elements behind such crimes.

The Government should also have a programme to communicate clearly with citizens, presenting facts and rationales, rather than boasts and hyperbole.

Perhaps they will formulate such plans before the State of Emergency ends.

« Last Edit: August 26, 2011, 08:09:19 AM by Trinity Cross »

Offline Brownsugar

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Re: State of Emergency....Good concept, poor execution?
« Reply #21 on: August 26, 2011, 03:28:13 PM »
Dreadlock Holiday
BC Pires


Their critics have called them uncaring, offering only a five per cent wage rise to state workers, threatening to arrest police who “sick-out” and thing, but the Government this week revealed its compassion by giving criminals a two-week holiday, in the form of the limited-general state of emergency declared on Monday (or perhaps Tuesday—we’ll have to wait for it to end to be sure exactly when it started). Last weekend, our hardworking gunmen/drug dealers/community leaders contrived to murder 11 people in two days. That, for the People’s Partnership for Government by Vaps, was just too fire- trucking much. The several hundred murders before, including those of a mother and her two young children in their own home, were not particularly outrageous, it would seem, but when you’re killing 11 people in one weekend, you’re straying into territory normally reserved for the Attorney-General of T&T; and even our former exemplary Human Rights Bureau chief/chief hangman AG, Ramesh, took three consecutive weekends to hang his nine. It wasn’t professional jealousy that precipitated the limited-general state of emergency, but heartfelt sympathy for the plight of the criminal. Banditry/murder is very hard work, hugely taxing on the human spirit. People required to slit throats, carve breasts, gouge out eyes etc, and cuff down two buckets of spicy-crispy afterwards, need a chance to rest and recuperate, too; and it seems this is what the Government has offered them.

Because, as Senior Counsel, former Law Association president, Independent senator and scathing columnist Martin Daly has eloquently pointed out, when you play the state of emergency ace, you have to hang the criminal Jack, or you’ve exposed your hand for deuce. Though we’ll have to wait for the final outcome to be sure, into day four (or perhaps five) of the emergency, a supposedly telling blow against crime seems likely to turn out to be merely revealing of the ineptitude that characterises any official act in Trinidad. Anyone with a smattering of legal training (and without a PNM party card, or seat in Parliament) would concede that the only thing that could arrest the rapid decline of the rule of law in Trinidad is a state of emergency. Like Muslims who abuse liberal democracy’s freedoms to preserve an irrational favourable treatment for their own superstitions (so they can burn embassies in protest, but columnists can’t say “boo” about their prophet), criminals abuse the notion of the rule of law for their own benefit, murdering witnesses to their crimes, and getting away literally with murder upon murder, because they know they have the right to due process—which, in the Trinidad context, will never fall due, except in state of emergency conditions, when the Constitution is suspended, and the “rights” of criminals denied.

The problem with a state of emergency, though, is that you can’t keep it going forever, or it becomes a state of ordinary. So, in 11 days (or perhaps 12), everyone arrested since Monday (or Tuesday) will have to be released, or have something proven against him or her. And since the Police Service is as likely to continue to fail to take advantage of the remaining days of emergency as it has failed to make the most of the first few, all that is likely to happen is the really bad men who should have been locked up without trial 10 years ago are going to have 10 days off. And then they’ll be back, refreshed and broke, and looking to pay everyone back for their loss of income. The only thing more embarrassing than the bumbling way in which coup de grace was delivered as faux pas is likely to be the bumbling way in which the PNM will respond to it. They, who landed us all in this state of anarchy, are likely to talk what they call in Barbados “bare shite,” about the threat to freedom and the emergence of a police state. It wouldn’t even be bad if Trinidad became a police state, if it was an open, pro-perly functioning police state that could keep your car from being stolen from your driveway and give you a new passport within a year.

Trinidad is not a police state, just a very badly run one, and for the very good reason that almost no one in Trinidad takes personal responsibility: the Police Service must be made right—but the Police Service Commission head must be allowed to disobey the police if he’s in a hurry; the Integrity Commission chair must be not just forgiven but given absolution for the odd acts of intellectual piracy made necessary by newspaper deadline pressures; the same person who shrinks in horror at the evil of a palace built for peasants has no difficulty in getting cosy in $3,000 sheets. So, though, like every other cit-izen, I’m willing to give up my own rights for a time, for the benefit of us all, I’m not going to bet on the state of emergency transforming Trinidad, in 15 days, from a place where people are murdered in the driveways of police stations into one in which women can walk home alone at night in bikinis.

The only people likely to benefit from the general-limited Ess of E are bailiffs, who may seize and auction property after cinemas and restaurants are closed, because of the curfew; criminal/ constitutional lawyers, who will have many writs of habeas corpus to argue in 11 (or 12) days, and family court lawyers, who will have plenty divorce petitions to draft, when spouses all ’round town are forced to stay home together and quarrel with one another instead of one of them escaping to the Savannah for a corn soup. And maybe, one day, we’ll elect a government, or ourselves become citizens honest enough to declare what we really have in Trinidad: a state of firetrucking apathy; until then, I suggest we reverse the syllables of the curfew to see it for what it really is.

BC Pires is not so much under curfew as under the influence. Read more of his writing at www.BCraw.com

http://www.guardian.co.tt/columnist/2011/08/26/dreadlock-holiday
"...If yuh clothes tear up
Or yuh shoes burst off,
You could still jump up when music play.
Old lady, young baby, everybody could dingolay...
Dingolay, ay, ay, ay ay,
Dingolay ay, ay, ay..."

RIP Shadow....The legend will live on in music...

Offline weary1969

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Re: State of Emergency....Good concept, poor execution?
« Reply #22 on: August 26, 2011, 10:26:10 PM »
ANAND RAMLOGAN couldn't find a piano. Do you expect him to find any REAL big fish in T&T
Today you're the dog, tomorrow you're the hydrant - so be good to others - it comes back!"

Offline Bakes

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Re: State of Emergency....Good concept, poor execution?
« Reply #23 on: August 26, 2011, 10:38:46 PM »
i doe know..i find it strange....i meeting people on d street dat happy with the SOE so far....

Yes, well thats because a large number of people who post on this board live abroad and are disconnected with the daily reality that exists here. I've been there as well, reading papers online gives a skewed impression of life in Trinidad.

Another set will naturally complain about every and anything regardless on a daily basis and yet another set are fixed in their political agendas.

Watch them come and jump all over my case for saying that now.

Yuh ent saying nutten here, so nutten to "jump all over yuh case" for.  Besides... you self say that the crime situation in TnT exaggerated... and that people in 'foreign' have a skewed perception of the crime situation.  So which is it?  Crime not as bad as we "disconnected" foreigners making it out to be... or crime so bad that SoE warranted?   Or is it that yuh perspective depends on which side of the story yuh trying to justify?

Offline warmonga

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Re: State of Emergency....Good concept, poor execution?
« Reply #24 on: August 27, 2011, 01:16:18 AM »
I starting to think this state of emergency is a joky thing eh.. How come dey study arresting ppl and me eh seeing no one charge with any offence? wais da one?  I checking di newspaper to see sum fire wrks between di wutless facks in my country and my newest favourite ppl  "di Police" Police arresting them but I wah see charges or fireworks mek di thing exciting nuh man......
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Offline Football supporter

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Re: State of Emergency....Good concept, poor execution?
« Reply #25 on: August 27, 2011, 09:23:55 AM »
To be fair, the whole point is that if you go with large numbers of heavily armed police & troops, you gotta be mad to fight. On the videos I've seen, they go in and target one or two guys. And they switch areas, so you can't really organise a defence. Tivoli Gardens was different in that Dumas boys knew they were coming and they were in a defensible position. Because of the curfew, bandits can't react and rush to help.

As for charges, that was never going to happen yet. Another reason for the SOE is so you can work the streets without taking men off operations to do the paperwork. That will come after.

Offline boss

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Re: State of Emergency....Good concept, poor execution?
« Reply #26 on: December 09, 2016, 08:31:34 AM »
Is it time for another one? Will it make a difference?  :beermug:

Offline Bourbon

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Re: State of Emergency....Good concept, poor execution?
« Reply #27 on: December 10, 2016, 06:11:36 AM »
Is it time for another one? Will it make a difference?  :beermug:

It didnt then.

I doubt it would now.


Getting all the illegal firearms from wherever they are is a risky enterprise. And since the borders so porous they just would come back in.
And even if.....when would they be prosecuted and convicted?

Then the drugs factor. People dont seem to realise that stopping the drug trade would also result in an uptick of killings. If a man takes drugs on consignment and it gets intercepted.....you think the person who supplied the drugs going and say..."Oh shucks...hard luck dey. Doh worry about the payment nah boy..these things happen."

This place is a festering mess and it will have to get much worse before it gets better.
The greatest single cause of atheism in the world today are Christians who acknowledge Jesus ;with their lips and walk out the door and deny Him by their lifestyle. That is what an unbelieving world simply finds unbelievable.

 

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