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R U supporting the SOE Or not

yes
15 (53.6%)
no
13 (46.4%)

Total Members Voted: 26

Author Topic: serious thing yu supporting or not of the SOE  (Read 5008 times)

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Offline warmonga

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serious thing yu supporting or not of the SOE
« on: September 01, 2011, 11:15:28 AM »
I want to know if you supporting the SOE or NOT.. I fully support anything dat will make me start call my birth land Sweet TNT again.. and dont get slap by whitebwoy for saying a nice lil island in the west Indies..
war
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Offline Dutty

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Re: serious thing yu supporting or not of the SOE
« Reply #1 on: September 01, 2011, 11:50:30 AM »
..........not for 3 flickin months, dais ah bad slippery slope
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Offline Socapro

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Re: serious thing yu supporting or not of the SOE
« Reply #2 on: September 01, 2011, 06:31:59 PM »
@astewart42 Boasting about a reduction in crime during a State of Emergency is like gloating about losing weight during a famine...
De higher a monkey climbs is de less his ass is on de line, if he works for FIFA that is! ;-)

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Re: serious thing yu supporting or not of the SOE
« Reply #3 on: September 01, 2011, 06:45:43 PM »
Not supporting it because of how it was planned. Most likely because of how the SOE was planned we may have more crime than what we initially have when it comes to an end

Offline Jumbie

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Re: serious thing yu supporting or not of the SOE
« Reply #4 on: September 01, 2011, 07:14:30 PM »
Not supporting it because of how it was planned. Most likely because of how the SOE was planned we may have more crime than what we initially have when it comes to an end

Care to expand?

I'm not in the kitchen so it would be wrong to comment on the heat. From someone who have all intentions of moving back within the next couple years.. it's nice to see something being attempted.

We need to take responsibility for our actions.

Offline Socafan

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Re: serious thing yu supporting or not of the SOE
« Reply #5 on: September 01, 2011, 07:30:26 PM »
Not at all. Not for crime at the level of TnT. Dais like if yuh have a pest control company coming to yuh house once ah year, and yuh have ah infestation of roaches, but instead of telling the man to come more often or finding ah different company, yuh bun down de house.

SOE is SERIOUS TING not meant to fight crime.
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AirMan

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Re: serious thing yu supporting or not of the SOE
« Reply #6 on: September 01, 2011, 07:31:08 PM »
Not supporting it because of how it was planned. Most likely because of how the SOE was planned we may have more crime than what we initially have when it comes to an end

Care to expand?

I'm not in the kitchen so it would be wrong to comment on the heat. From someone who have all intentions of moving back within the next couple years.. it's nice to see something being attempted.

We need to take responsibility for our actions.

Not really going to exand much..

few questions you and citizens must ask themselves

who will take responsibility for the criminal aspect engrained IN the police force ?

who will take responsibility for who are being arrested ..the men on the streets who selling a lb of weed or the men on top who heading the drug campaigns ?

who will take responsibility for who are the REAL gang leaders being sought out by the SOE ?..

yeah yuh right we must take responsibility and the true results will show weeks after the SOE done
« Last Edit: September 01, 2011, 07:36:51 PM by AirMan »

truetrini

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Re: serious thing yu supporting or not of the SOE
« Reply #7 on: September 01, 2011, 07:35:03 PM »
http://test.guardian.co.tt/index.php?q=news%2Fgeneral%2F2009%2F03%2F20%2Fkamla-wants-pm-rule-out-summit-state-emergency

Kamla wants PM to rule out Summit state of emergency
RICHARD LORD
Published: 20 Mar 2009
Opposition MP Kamla Persad-Bissessar says Prime Minister Patrick Manning must immediately and unequivocally “rule out the declaration of a state of emergency, limited or otherwise, for the Fifth Summit of the Americas, scheduled to take place in Port-of-Spain from April 17 to 19.
Persad-Bissessar, a former Attorney General, said the Constitution made a clear provision for the declaration of a state of emergency. She was responding to a reported statement made by Manning at Wednesday’s post-Cabinet news conference at the Diplomatic Centre in St Ann’s. Manning was responding to questions on possible dislocation and inconvenience expected during the Summit. He said: “There are laws in the country that will allow you to put emergency arrangements in place, and those are the laws that we are using.”
And Persad-Bissessar said yesterday that Manning must “clarify what laws he is referring to.” She stressed:

“The Government cannot, under the pretext of heightened security, use the emergency powers in the Constitution for that reason.” She recalled that Manning used Section 8 of the Constitution in August, 1994, to obtain a limited state of emergency around the premises of then Speaker of the House of Representatives, Occah Seapaul.

“There is a fear that if this kind of abuse is allowed to occur, then there’ll be an undermining of the democracy and protection of rights in this country.

It will become easier for rights to be trounced,” Persad-Bissessar added. She noted that the constitutional rights of businessmen and residents in the exclusive security or red zone are already being infringed as their access is being restricted.

Offline lefty

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Re: serious thing yu supporting or not of the SOE
« Reply #8 on: September 01, 2011, 07:38:21 PM »
Not supporting it because of how it was planned. Most likely because of how the SOE was planned we may have more crime than what we initially have when it comes to an end

that is d obvious stickin point there, for three days after it was called, no one knew exactly how to operate (i.e. conductin yuh normal day to day routine) because the info was vague and kept changin...yuh under curfew ............yuh not under curfew...confusion in addition how d hell no body checkin container in point Lisas and How come no police  operation for Icacos everybody and dey mammy know scene wit dong dey
I pity the fool....

AirMan

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Re: serious thing yu supporting or not of the SOE
« Reply #9 on: September 01, 2011, 07:39:53 PM »
Not supporting it because of how it was planned. Most likely because of how the SOE was planned we may have more crime than what we initially have when it comes to an end

Care to expand?

I'm not in the kitchen so it would be wrong to comment on the heat. From someone who have all intentions of moving back within the next couple years.. it's nice to see something being attempted.

We need to take responsibility for our actions.

Not really going to exand much..

few questions you and citizens must ask themselves

who will take responsibility for the criminal aspect engrained IN the police force ?

who will take responsibility for who are being arrested ..the men on the streets who selling a lb of weed or the men on top who heading the drug campaigns ?

who will take responsibility for who are the REAL gang leaders being sought out by the SOE ?..

yeah yuh right we must take responsibility and the true results will show weeks after the SOE done

Yes I repeat the criminal police who help with the escalation in crime in the country. with the movement of drugs and giving ganag leaders ah bligh. The SOE doing something about that ?..The police locking up them gang leaders ?..

a lot of youths who pushing a lil weed or call demselves gangleaders (cause they rep a gang ) being locked up..and that will not lessen crime cause they are easily replaceable. The failure of the SOE will show when the curfew is over..

Offline Socafan

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Re: serious thing yu supporting or not of the SOE
« Reply #10 on: September 01, 2011, 07:54:23 PM »
http://test.guardian.co.tt/index.php?q=news%2Fgeneral%2F2009%2F03%2F20%2Fkamla-wants-pm-rule-out-summit-state-emergency

Kamla wants PM to rule out Summit state of emergency
RICHARD LORD
Published: 20 Mar 2009
Opposition MP Kamla Persad-Bissessar says Prime Minister Patrick Manning must immediately and unequivocally “rule out the declaration of a state of emergency, limited or otherwise, for the Fifth Summit of the Americas, scheduled to take place in Port-of-Spain from April 17 to 19.
Persad-Bissessar, a former Attorney General, said the Constitution made a clear provision for the declaration of a state of emergency. She was responding to a reported statement made by Manning at Wednesday’s post-Cabinet news conference at the Diplomatic Centre in St Ann’s. Manning was responding to questions on possible dislocation and inconvenience expected during the Summit. He said: “There are laws in the country that will allow you to put emergency arrangements in place, and those are the laws that we are using.”
And Persad-Bissessar said yesterday that Manning must “clarify what laws he is referring to.” She stressed:

“The Government cannot, under the pretext of heightened security, use the emergency powers in the Constitution for that reason.” She recalled that Manning used Section 8 of the Constitution in August, 1994, to obtain a limited state of emergency around the premises of then Speaker of the House of Representatives, Occah Seapaul.

“There is a fear that if this kind of abuse is allowed to occur, then there’ll be an undermining of the democracy and protection of rights in this country.

It will become easier for rights to be trounced,” Persad-Bissessar added. She noted that the constitutional rights of businessmen and residents in the exclusive security or red zone are already being infringed as their access is being restricted.

Ahhh boy......look ting.....

It's ah joke.
Two islands are better than one.

Offline Bakes

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Re: serious thing yu supporting or not of the SOE
« Reply #11 on: September 01, 2011, 09:24:59 PM »
Not supporting it because of how it was planned. Most likely because of how the SOE was planned we may have more crime than what we initially have when it comes to an end

Care to expand?

I'm not in the kitchen so it would be wrong to comment on the heat. From someone who have all intentions of moving back within the next couple years.. it's nice to see something being attempted.

We need to take responsibility for our actions.

What does this have to do with the SoE... are you contending that citizens to TnT are responsible for the levels of crime?  Doesn't the government have to take responsibility for controlling crime?

Offline Football supporter

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Re: serious thing yu supporting or not of the SOE
« Reply #12 on: September 01, 2011, 10:12:38 PM »
“The Government cannot, under the pretext of heightened security, use the emergency powers in the Constitution for that reason.” She recalled that Manning used Section 8 of the Constitution in August, 1994, to obtain a limited state of emergency around the premises of then Speaker of the House of Representatives, Occah Seapaul.

“There is a fear that if this kind of abuse is allowed to occur, then there’ll be an undermining of the democracy and protection of rights in this country.

It will become easier for rights to be trounced,” Persad-Bissessar added. She noted that the constitutional rights of businessmen and residents in the exclusive security or red zone are already being infringed as their access is being restricted."

Its funny how your words come back and bite you on the ass, ent Kamla?!

Offline MEP

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Re: serious thing yu supporting or not of the SOE
« Reply #13 on: September 01, 2011, 10:27:16 PM »
“The Government cannot, under the pretext of heightened security, use the emergency powers in the Constitution for that reason.” She recalled that Manning used Section 8 of the Constitution in August, 1994, to obtain a limited state of emergency around the premises of then Speaker of the House of Representatives, Occah Seapaul.

“There is a fear that if this kind of abuse is allowed to occur, then there’ll be an undermining of the democracy and protection of rights in this country.

It will become easier for rights to be trounced,” Persad-Bissessar added. She noted that the constitutional rights of businessmen and residents in the exclusive security or red zone are already being infringed as their access is being restricted."

Its funny how your words come back and bite you on the ass, ent Kamla?!

So what then is this SOE truly about...what  are they planning?

Offline fishs

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Re: serious thing yu supporting or not of the SOE
« Reply #14 on: September 02, 2011, 01:34:53 AM »
 Allyuh is real haterz yes.
Manning wanted to put a SOE for the billion dollar summit not for the evntuall benefit of the people of TT.
Now yuh comparing that to this SOE.

My wife and children living in TT, I spend at 3mths home every year and TT ent no fecking paradise as it supposed to be. Right across the road Barbados is now developed status because of the quality of life and allyuh coming up with all kinda BS reasons for not liking the SOE.
Well yuh could say what yuh want but plenty plenty thugs , murderers, rapists, thief and bandit in jail now because of this SOE.

So I say extend it until man could wear he lil gold chain round he neck, drive home he car, sit in the rum shop with the boys, go lady young rd lookout with a lil ting and not have some beast come up to yuh rob yuh ass and then shoot yuh dead.
Extend until I doh have to worry about mih daughters liming, mih mom getting to go church, mih old father going south for his weekly lime, mih nieces and nephews doing going about there normal business and getting robbed and shot dead by some beast

Extend it until everybody in this forum who live in TT and or have family living in TT doh have to experience a phone call telling them that one of their loved ones or friends just got robbed and shot by some beast.
Extend it I say.
« Last Edit: September 02, 2011, 01:37:58 AM by fishs »
Ah want de woman on de bass

Offline Football supporter

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Re: serious thing yu supporting or not of the SOE
« Reply #15 on: September 02, 2011, 02:01:52 AM »
Barbados is nice, yes. I've been there 3 times. Every evening on the Gap I was offered cocaine and prostitutes. So many hustlers, it was a pain to go out. I have never been offered drugs or hoes on Ariapita. Barbados may have a lower crime rate (i don't know the statistics), but to me, its a dreadful place to lime and I much prefer Trinidad. In fact, it would be interesting to see the crime stats for Ariapita Ave and the promenade. Although, clearly, there are many places I don't feel safe, i'm lucky coz I can avoid those areas at night. But for tourists, providing they show a little common sense, Ariapita is a paradise compared with The Gap.

Tonight I was liming at Frankies and there were around 30 English rugby players who couldn't believe there was a State of Emergency. Some Trini girls started dancing on the bar and dragged up some of the Brits. Everyone was friendly.

The major crime problems are in areas where gangs rule and the curfew seems to be working for now. Major social changes are required in these areas. One such measure is to tear down some of these areas and build decent social housing. There are too many "rat runs", too many unlit areas. If you make people live in slums they will never aspire to something better. Give them their pride back and maybe they can have dreams for their children?

Offline fishs

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Re: serious thing yu supporting or not of the SOE
« Reply #16 on: September 02, 2011, 02:47:02 AM »
Barbados is nice, yes. I've been there 3 times. Every evening on the Gap I was offered cocaine and prostitutes. So many hustlers, it was a pain to go out. I have never been offered drugs or hoes on Ariapita. Barbados may have a lower crime rate (i don't know the statistics), but to me, its a dreadful place to lime and I much prefer Trinidad. In fact, it would be interesting to see the crime stats for Ariapita Ave and the promenade. Although, clearly, there are many places I don't feel safe, i'm lucky coz I can avoid those areas at night. But for tourists, providing they show a little common sense, Ariapita is a paradise compared with The Gap.

Tonight I was liming at Frankies and there were around 30 English rugby players who couldn't believe there was a State of Emergency. Some Trini girls started dancing on the bar and dragged up some of the Brits. Everyone was friendly.

The major crime problems are in areas where gangs rule and the curfew seems to be working for now. Major social changes are required in these areas. One such measure is to tear down some of these areas and build decent social housing. There are too many "rat runs", too many unlit areas. If you make people live in slums they will never aspire to something better. Give them their pride back and maybe they can have dreams for their children?

What a load of tata.
I lived in Barbados for 2 years 2 of my daughters are in university there now so don't come across all sarcastic as if I'm talking shyte.
I wonder if you've ever been robbed at gunpoint? Well I have... twice.
Ever had your home broken into? I have .... 4 times
Ever had your father beaten and robbed of his car at his house? I have.
Ever had a good friend's son robbed of his car and shot in the process? I have..
None of these occured in hot spots
So I don't know if the Trinidad you live on is the same planet that I'm referring to but if you feel safe outside of the hotspots in the Trinidad I know before the SOE then you must be either one of them or one damn lucky man
Ah want de woman on de bass

truetrini

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Re: serious thing yu supporting or not of the SOE
« Reply #17 on: September 02, 2011, 04:11:24 AM »
The trampling of Rights, Freedoms
Published: Thu, 2011-09-01 19:57
 
The consequences of the decision of a former Prime Minister to plunge this country into the valley of decision some three years before being constitutionally obliged to do so are daily being manifested in ways unimagined even by him. In a mere 15 months the pendulum of leadership has swung between two extremities. One, blinded by hubris and illusions of invincibility, and the other, a public relations creation, presiding over by an inner cabal who dictates government policy. The charge of the latter brigade is being led by AG Anand Ramlogan,  a non-elected official to government.

On August 21, in a live address televised only by the state-run CNMG, as if the gravity of the impending message did not warrant a national simulcast involving all the television and radio stations, Prime Minister Kamla Persad-Bissessar stated that the nation was rocked with the recent tragic news of the spate of murders and that one of the causations was linked to the discovery of large drug hauls with values in excess of $20 million. She added that “the current crime spree dictates that more must be done and stronger action has to be employed now... it must be a response as well that will halt the current gang activity and crime in general in the shortest possible time... the nation will not be held to ransom by marauding groups of thugs bent on creating havoc in the society...”

However, within a few hours of that statement, the AG gave another justification for the imposition of the state of emergency. It was decided upon based on “intelligence from security agencies which Government could not share with the population,” but which nonetheless “averted a crisis.” There was “an immediate threat and endangerment to public safety and innocent citizens could have lost their lives had a state of emergency not been declared.”

So in a matter of days the rationale had shifted from heightened gang warfare to an immediate threat and endangerment to public safety. Were the gangs about to turn on the national community at large? Ramlogan’s statement was nothing more than a figment of his troubled imagination to satisfy the requirements of section 8.2 of the Constitution (section 8.1 being inapplicable) that “the proclamation made by the President shall not be effective unless it contains a declaration that he (the President) is satisfied that action has been taken, or is immediately threatened by any person of such a nature, and on so extensive a scale, as to be likely to endanger the public safety.”

Tell the country, Mr AG, the nature of the immediate threat to public safety. The country deserves to know. Ramlogan’s motives become clearer with each succeeding press conference. He revealed that he wished to use the Tarouba Stadium to detain people arrested during the state of emergency. This appears to be a nefarious desire to recreate the dreaded FEMA (Federal Emergency Management Agency) style camps that have been established in the USA in the wake of the September 11, 2001, attack on the World Trade Center and which are ready to receive prisoners should martial law be implemented in the US.

This intended detention centre may mirror in many respects the detention centres in Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, where prisoners suspected of involvement in the September 11 attacks are kept in harsh conditions, incommunicado and without trial indefinitely. Speculation is rife that many people are being held incommunicado at Camp Cumuto, Wallerfield. Already, the case has been made for keeping the whereabouts of those detained a secret, by the revelation that those arrested do not wish their families to know that they are involved in gang activities. What exactly constitutes gang activities? Have all those people arrested been proven to be in gangs? On what evidence?

The opposition PNM blundered immensely in supporting the anti-gang legislation which contained serious flaws even during the bill stage but which still received bipartisan support in the House. It was never contemplated that that piece of legislation in whatever form would be resorted to in a state of emergency. The two combined indeed serve up a lethal cocktail of oppression which is now being liberally served to an unsuspecting population. Many other existing pieces of legislation contain ample provisions to tackle criminal activity—the Firearms Act, the Prevention of Crimes Act, the Prevention of Crimes (Offensive Weapons) Act, and the Dangerous Drugs Act—give law enforcement the legislative underpinning necessary.

Section 3 of the Prevention of Crimes Act provides for a register of all people convicted of crime to be kept under the management of the Commissioner of Police. So the police are well aware of who and where the criminals are. If they don’t then it is a gross failure on the part of the intelligence machinery of the State. Unable to govern and deliver on its hollow campaign promises (including a promise to rid the country of crime in 120 days) and increasingly called to account by an exasperated and frustrated citizenry, the Persad-Bissessar-led regime has responded with ferocity by declaring war on its citizens under the guise of fighting crime.

But the systematic erosion of democratic freedoms by democratically elected leaders is not without precedent in the Caribbean. Francois “Papa Doc” Duvalier was elected to the presidency of Haiti in 1957. He went on to rule Haiti with brute force with the help of the notoriously ruthless Ton Ton Macoutes, a paramilitary force which routinely assassinated opponents to his regime. Grenada had its share of oppressive leadership under its first elected Prime Minister, Eric Gairy, whose Mongoose Gang unleashed a series of unspeakable atrocities against the Grenadian citizenry until his overthrow by Maurice Bishop and the New Jewel Movement in 1979.

The Partnership is testing the waters to see how far it can push the population. This is just phase one. Phases two and three are not far in coming. The emasculation of the EBC, a redefining of the electoral boundaries, could soon be on the Government’s agenda and the rest, as they say, will be history. But also not without precedent are leaders charged for wanton abuse of power and position and misconduct in public office. The former Prime Minister of Ukraine, Yulia Tymoshenko, being one example. The Prime Minister and the AG at the very least are in breach of the oath of office they took under the First Schedule to “uphold the Constitution and the law and to conscientiously and impartially discharge the responsibilities to the people of Trinidad and Tobago.” The Prime Minister and the AG are being put on notice that they are trampling on the fundamental rights and freedoms of our citizenry and, like Robespierre during the French Revolution, they may yet fall victim to the very guillotine they are now deploying with relish.

Peter AC Taylor

• Peter Taylor is a former Minister of Legal Affairs and an attorney

truetrini

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Re: serious thing yu supporting or not of the SOE
« Reply #18 on: September 02, 2011, 04:17:30 AM »
http://www.trinidadexpress.com/commentaries/Don_t_extend_it__end_it-128972543.html


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Don't extend it, end it

Story Created: Sep 1, 2011 at 11:35 PM ECT
 Story Updated: Sep 1, 2011 at 11:35 PM ECT

Over two decades ago, when journalism still demonstrated reasonably strong elements of intelligence, skill and coherence, and when the word "veteran" had meaning and synonyms, regional journalist Rickey Singh observed how the cover of "national security" was used frequently by governments across the region to justify a lack of transparency. This, he said, should be interrogated by media professionals rather than being passively accepted.

More than two decades later, this country's Attorney General has reverted to that carte blanche term to stonewall legitimate queries about Government's motivation for and objectives in the current State of Emergency. With circular reasoning, we are told, latterly, that the State of Emergency was declared in order to avert a plot that would have resulted in mass killings.

That plot has been averted, but the public cannot be told what the plot was or how it has been averted because of "national security". In terms of this objective, the State of Emergency is already successful, rationalises AG Anand Ramlogan, but because of "national security" the public is unable to assess for ourselves the success or failure of this drastic move that has suspended our constitutional rights.


To my mind, this qualifies as the use of "national security" by the Government to justify a lack of transparency in circumstances that affect all citizens and their fundamental rights in a democratic system. Even if it comes after the State of Emergency has been lifted, this "national security" cover should be subjected to sustained, intelligent scrutiny by citizens and media, and neither citizens nor media should allow their attention to be deflected by this and that scandal that may conveniently arise when we are free again to enjoy our full rights as stated in the Constitution.

This is among the important issues arising in the conduct of the State of Emergency. Almost two weeks in, there is opportunity to observe several important aspects of this country's evolution and we all would be well advised to pay close attention to and influence the direction of that evolution.

The either/or fallacy in the reasoning of those who wholeheartedly support the State of Emergency ought to be interrogated too. This line of thinking was persistent under the Patrick Manning administration—if you are not for us then you are against us—and we saw it in play in the death penalty debate. In this instance, those who criticise the State of Emergency are in favour of criminal activity. This is not acceptable reasoning and the public, again, would do well to pay close attention to how this fallacy is being deployed.

Similarly, complaints about the multiple ways in which the curfew affects daily life are minimised with two responses: first, if you complain, it must be because you prefer to party rather than spend time at home with your family, and second, you were living under a self-imposed curfew anyway.

The first response is narrow and trading in stereotypes; time spent with family is a matter for families to determine, not for the AG and/or the Minister of National Security to forcibly engineer. In this regard, I have noticed the tendency of both to integrate family morality into their midday State of Emergency commentaries. This is post hoc justification. Both are overstepping their portfolios in so doing, and stepping outside the motivation for the State of Emergency.

The State of Emergency was not declared to finagle nuclear family values by forcing families to eat together across an imaginary dinner table; it was declared to capture criminals and seize firearms. The Government ought not to assume that we do not recognise its efforts to pronounce on families during this State of Emergency.

In the second instance, a self-imposed curfew, by definition, is imposed by the self; it is voluntary. Those who choose to stay indoors at night choose to so do rather than having to do so for fear of arrest and detention. There is an urgent corollary to this point. Thus far, attention has been paid primarily to the economic impact of the curfew. Economics will be cited today in the Parliament as the primary reason for whatever adjustment is made to the curfew hours. This is undoubtedly an important consideration but I argue that it is not the main consideration.

At the time of writing, I have not heard any mention of the more fundamental effects of 'unfreedom' on the psychology of the population. Bluntly stated, human beings do not adapt to confinement. If there is one unequivocal lesson from human history, it is that people will never surrender their freedom, no matter what the reason.
In the first week of the curfew, people bit by bit adjusted to the truncated hours of free movement, and found themselves running about like headless chickens to complete their activities and be indoors by 9 p.m. By the first weekend, the real impact on our lives became clearer. By this week, many people have had enough. To extend this tense, eerie period for a further three months is dangerous to consider, much less do.

While ordinary citizens suffer 'unfreedom', law enforcement enjoys expanded privileges. This State of Emergency should be lifted before our intemperate AG, our military Minister of National Security, our police, sailors and soldiers get accustomed to the power they wield under emergency regulations. Security forces adapting to extended privileges and a population unable to adapt to unfreedom will create another too serious problem.

This State of Emergency should be lifted before the Government, in seeking to solve one problem, creates a far bigger one.

Offline frico

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Re: serious thing yu supporting or not of the SOE
« Reply #19 on: September 02, 2011, 05:20:17 AM »
If the SOE sends out a message to the criminal element(even those rotten policemen) then that is good enough,the message is important,let the crims have second thoughts about their activities.The way I'm seeing this SOE is this...PNM supporters are against it and the supporters of the PP are all for it.I cannot understand what are the reasons for not supporting the SOE when TT is overrun with so much crime,worst of all,11 murders in a bloody week end,the government must start somewhere and I hope there is more SOE to come,weed out the rats,is there anymore like Robocop,we'll soon find out.

truetrini

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Re: serious thing yu supporting or not of the SOE
« Reply #20 on: September 02, 2011, 05:49:36 AM »
If the SOE sends out a message to the criminal element(even those rotten policemen) then that is good enough,the message is important,let the crims have second thoughts about their activities.The way I'm seeing this SOE is this...PNM supporters are against it and the supporters of the PP are all for it.I cannot understand what are the reasons for not supporting the SOE when TT is overrun with so much crime,worst of all,11 murders in a bloody week end,the government must start somewhere and I hope there is more SOE to come,weed out the rats,is there anymore like Robocop,we'll soon find out.

Yuh is such ah ka-ka hole shit talker...ALl the people who are syaing they are against it are PNM?  Steups...I suppoer MArtin Daly, and Kevin Baldeosingh, and ms rampersad and Mr Subhas Panday are all PNM now?


Offline Bakes

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Re: serious thing yu supporting or not of the SOE
« Reply #21 on: September 02, 2011, 06:29:52 AM »
What a load of tata.
I lived in Barbados for 2 years 2 of my daughters are in university there now so don't come across all sarcastic as if I'm talking shyte.
I wonder if you've ever been robbed at gunpoint? Well I have... twice.
Ever had your home broken into? I have .... 4 times
Ever had your father beaten and robbed of his car at his house? I have.
Ever had a good friend's son robbed of his car and shot in the process? I have..
None of these occured in hot spots
So I don't know if the Trinidad you live on is the same planet that I'm referring to but if you feel safe outside of the hotspots in the Trinidad I know before the SOE then you must be either one of them or one damn lucky man

Sorry you had such a suck-ass life... and no thanks, the rest of us don't want to be as miserable as you and will pass on the offer to abrogate our individual freedoms.  Repression from the government is a step up from repression by the criminals, but only in theory.

Offline fishs

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Re: serious thing yu supporting or not of the SOE
« Reply #22 on: September 02, 2011, 06:38:05 AM »
What a load of tata.
I lived in Barbados for 2 years 2 of my daughters are in university there now so don't come across all sarcastic as if I'm talking shyte.
I wonder if you've ever been robbed at gunpoint? Well I have... twice.
Ever had your home broken into? I have .... 4 times
Ever had your father beaten and robbed of his car at his house? I have.
Ever had a good friend's son robbed of his car and shot in the process? I have..
None of these occured in hot spots
So I don't know if the Trinidad you live on is the same planet that I'm referring to but if you feel safe outside of the hotspots in the Trinidad I know before the SOE then you must be either one of them or one damn lucky man

Sorry you had such a suck-ass life... and no thanks, the rest of us don't want to be as miserable as you and will pass on the offer to abrogate our individual freedoms.  Repression from the government is a step up from repression by the criminals, but only in theory.

Maybe if you actually lived in Trinidad you would realise that this suck ass life is what most trinis have with the crime situation.
Sit on your ivory tower and lambaste people that want the end of this crime scourge and are willing to make sacrifices because you think there are larger, dire plots afoot by the government.
See how much you think of your freedom when some thug ends your life.

Anyhow the SOE in place and really nobody that matters listening to you.
« Last Edit: September 02, 2011, 06:42:20 AM by fishs »
Ah want de woman on de bass

Offline Bakes

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Re: serious thing yu supporting or not of the SOE
« Reply #23 on: September 02, 2011, 06:56:26 AM »
Maybe if you actually lived in Trinidad you would realise that this suck ass life is what most trinis have with the crime situation.
Sit on your ivory tower and lambaste people that want the end of this crime scourge and are willing to make sacrifices because you think there are larger, dire plots afoot by the government.
See how much you think of your freedom when some thug ends your life.

Anyhow the SOE in place and really nobody that matters listening to you.

Even if I lived in Trinidad I wouldn't know "most Trinis" or what their lives are like.  As a matter of fact,
"most Trinis" who live in TnT and post on this very forum insist that crime is exaggerated by us foreigners.  So who should I listen to, "most Trinis" or you?  Most Trinis might even point out to you that I am not lambasting people... but rather Government and other state institutions complicit in the current situation by their failures to carry out this most fundamental of mandates.  Most Trinis are smart and would recognize this important distinction... you are understandably excused. 

Most Trinis might even recognize that my concerns have always been about civil liberties and the reality of present abuses taking place... not fanciful conspiracy theories about "larger, dire plots afoot by the government".  That is the product of your hyperactive imagination and emotional psyche.  No thug holds my life in his hands... when it's my time to go it's my time to go, simple as that. 

And yes, I fully recognize that nobody that matters (as subjective a determination as that is in itself) is listening to me, that's because we know they tied up at the moment, listening to you.

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Re: serious thing yu supporting or not of the SOE
« Reply #24 on: September 02, 2011, 07:11:25 AM »
Barbados is nice, yes. I've been there 3 times. Every evening on the Gap I was offered cocaine and prostitutes. So many hustlers, it was a pain to go out. I have never been offered drugs or hoes on Ariapita. Barbados may have a lower crime rate (i don't know the statistics), but to me, its a dreadful place to lime and I much prefer Trinidad. In fact, it would be interesting to see the crime stats for Ariapita Ave and the promenade. Although, clearly, there are many places I don't feel safe, i'm lucky coz I can avoid those areas at night. But for tourists, providing they show a little common sense, Ariapita is a paradise compared with The Gap.

Tonight I was liming at Frankies and there were around 30 English rugby players who couldn't believe there was a State of Emergency. Some Trini girls started dancing on the bar and dragged up some of the Brits. Everyone was friendly.

The major crime problems are in areas where gangs rule and the curfew seems to be working for now. Major social changes are required in these areas. One such measure is to tear down some of these areas and build decent social housing. There are too many "rat runs", too many unlit areas. If you make people live in slums they will never aspire to something better. Give them their pride back and maybe they can have dreams for their children?

What a load of tata.
I lived in Barbados for 2 years 2 of my daughters are in university there now so don't come across all sarcastic as if I'm talking shyte.
I wonder if you've ever been robbed at gunpoint? Well I have... twice.
Ever had your home broken into? I have .... 4 times
Ever had your father beaten and robbed of his car at his house? I have.
Ever had a good friend's son robbed of his car and shot in the process? I have..
None of these occured in hot spots
So I don't know if the Trinidad you live on is the same planet that I'm referring to but if you feel safe outside of the hotspots in the Trinidad I know before the SOE then you must be either one of them or one damn lucky man

Pal, don't talk about shyte. My opinion is just as valued as yours. You make Barbados some kind of paradise. I saw no guns or murders while I was there, but where theres drugs and prostitution, there are gangs. Maybe its only white people being offered drugs on the Gap? But if I am talking from first hand experience, please don't try to belittle me. And yes, I have been robbed at gunpoint in T&T and escaped an armed kidnap attempt. I have had several good friends robbed at gunpoint when in their own cars. I have had good friends who's houses have been robbed by armed men.

As I said, I am lucky I don't live in the areas of high crime and can mostly avoid them. I also offered a soloution, which I'm yet to see you do. But if Barbados is so cool, why don't you live there? I chose to live in T&T and one of the reasons is that most people are friendly and honest. Maybe if the Bajuns can curb their hustlers on the Gap, more people would want to move there.

Offline Brownsugar

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Re: serious thing yu supporting or not of the SOE
« Reply #25 on: September 02, 2011, 07:21:36 AM »
What a load of tata.
I lived in Barbados for 2 years 2 of my daughters are in university there now so don't come across all sarcastic as if I'm talking shyte.
I wonder if you've ever been robbed at gunpoint? Well I have... twice.
Ever had your home broken into? I have .... 4 times
Ever had your father beaten and robbed of his car at his house? I have.
Ever had a good friend's son robbed of his car and shot in the process? I have..
None of these occured in hot spots
So I don't know if the Trinidad you live on is the same planet that I'm referring to but if you feel safe outside of the hotspots in the Trinidad I know before the SOE then you must be either one of them or one damn lucky man

Sorry you had such a suck-ass life... and no thanks, the rest of us don't want to be as miserable as you and will pass on the offer to abrogate our individual freedoms.  Repression from the government is a step up from repression by the criminals, but only in theory.

Maybe if you actually lived in Trinidad you would realise that this suck ass life is what most trinis have with the crime situation.
Sit on your ivory tower and lambaste people that want the end of this crime scourge and are willing to make sacrifices because you think there are larger, dire plots afoot by the government.
See how much you think of your freedom when some thug ends your life.

Anyhow the SOE in place and really nobody that matters listening to you.

Fishs, I was a victim of crime.  My next door neighbours were.  My brother was (in Tobago), my co-worker had his car taken at gun point in April.

And I still don't think we needed an SOE to deal with crime.  What we needed is effective policing, a good working legal system, politicians who WILL NOT BEND TO THE WISHES OF THOSE WHO CAN BUY THEM WITH THEIR MONEY!!

For example, can anyone tell me how New York went from being a dangerous city in the 70's - 80' and part of the 90's to a relatively safe one now?? Did it require an SOE??  Or just a leader(s) who will bite the bullet and make the hard decisions??

If when you in Trinidad for 3 months or what ever, you want to lock up in your house dais you.  I still had the freedom to CHOOSE whether I want to lock myself inside or not.  Now I don't and I doh like it.....

As for the topic of this thread, I don't support this SOE. IF, IF the PP government had given me clear plans on how they were going to tackle crime and implemented and it wasn't working THEN I could support this move.  
But like I said at the start of all this.  Dem was ponging up dey chest just 2 - 3 weeks before saying that their plans were bringing down the murder rate and as a matter of fact, Moonilal say the day before there is no need for an SOE due to these plans that they had in place.  What plans he was refering to only dem know......

Den dey coming to tell me is a threat that they cyar reveal.  So dem suspend my rights for some "unseen" threat.....steups!!

Anyway tune into the Parliament Channel from 10 am to hear why we have an SOE in place.....depending on what I hear I might change my mind......(doubt that).
"...If yuh clothes tear up
Or yuh shoes burst off,
You could still jump up when music play.
Old lady, young baby, everybody could dingolay...
Dingolay, ay, ay, ay ay,
Dingolay ay, ay, ay..."

RIP Shadow....The legend will live on in music...

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Re: serious thing yu supporting or not of the SOE
« Reply #26 on: September 02, 2011, 07:34:24 AM »
One of the things we have to be careful of when assessing the SOE is political bias. But, having said that, we also have to examine how the PP government dealt with this situation. One of my concerns is that the SOE was quite simply the easy option to reduce crime. I think everyone agrees that the results so far have been impressive, even if you don't agree with the method. But was it really necessary? Could it have been that the government were clueless with regard to crime reduction, and instead of carefully constructing an effective crime plan, they panicked?

Following on from the initial 15 days, is there really a need for the SOE to continue? You would expect that in 15 days, most of the aims would be achieved. The govt say this is intelligence led, so logically that intelligence has been used. Why can they now not end the SOE, but maintain a shorter curfew if necessary?

We are continually told information is witheld due to "National Security". Once this is over, there should be a commission of inquiry including several overseas members, to examine the witheld information to determine if, indeed, this was a threat to security, or rather just witheld to avoid embarrassment. Particularly the intelligence of the threat to our country which triggered the SOE. They should also wexamine the intelligence in place prior to the SOE to determine if the SOE was in fact warrented.

This cannot, and must never be, a political decision aimed at crime reduction. If the nation really was under threat, then the govt deserve praise for acting bravely and averting massive bloodshed. If, however, it was a knee jerk reaction by a government panicked and out of ideas, then the electorate must be informed.

Offline Bakes

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Re: serious thing yu supporting or not of the SOE
« Reply #27 on: September 02, 2011, 07:52:17 AM »
One of the things we have to be careful of when assessing the SOE is political bias. But, having said that, we also have to examine how the PP government dealt with this situation. One of my concerns is that the SOE was quite simply the easy option to reduce crime. I think everyone agrees that the results so far have been impressive, even if you don't agree with the method. But was it really necessary? Could it have been that the government were clueless with regard to crime reduction, and instead of carefully constructing an effective crime plan, they panicked?

Exactly what about "the results" have been impressive?  Are you just looking at arrests figures or are you judging by the reduction in crime?

Offline Jumbie

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Re: serious thing yu supporting or not of the SOE
« Reply #28 on: September 02, 2011, 07:54:44 AM »
Let's dig that hole and bury we head in the sand and call that george.


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Re: serious thing yu supporting or not of the SOE
« Reply #29 on: September 02, 2011, 07:57:17 AM »
One of the things we have to be careful of when assessing the SOE is political bias. But, having said that, we also have to examine how the PP government dealt with this situation. One of my concerns is that the SOE was quite simply the easy option to reduce crime. I think everyone agrees that the results so far have been impressive, even if you don't agree with the method. But was it really necessary? Could it have been that the government were clueless with regard to crime reduction, and instead of carefully constructing an effective crime plan, they panicked?

Exactly what about "the results" have been impressive?  Are you just looking at arrests figures or are you judging by the reduction in crime?

The reduction in crime has been impressive, if not pretty obvious due to the lack of freedom of movement. Also, there is a feeling of increased safety by many. Once we see prosecutions arising fromthe 1000+ arrests we can judge the morality of the SOE.

 

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