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Author Topic: Ataulla Guerra Thread.  (Read 58036 times)

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Offline congo

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Re: Ataullah "Bow" Guerra.
« Reply #90 on: June 05, 2014, 11:15:02 AM »
The funny thing is that on a field of play, everyone is equal. That is probably one of the few instances where everyone taking the field is subject to the same laws and rules. The before game greeting and hand shakes are already there as signs of mutual respect.

Offline Controversial

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Re: Ataullah "Bow" Guerra.
« Reply #91 on: June 05, 2014, 11:15:21 AM »
You mean all those players to ever encounter messi after all these years and only one player actually bow to him? Everyone respects and admires the genius that is Lionel Messi but when you are acting on behalf of your country in a competitive capacity you don't have to bow to anyone. The man bowing and acting all giggly at the other players coming after Messi showing thumbs up etc.

You feel if any other serious country had a player that made this gesture and then gone on to lose the game wouldn't be in uproar. This is already trending, meaning it's not an ordinary gesture to make before competition. I don't care that it is a friendly but you are representing your country. This wasn't a fete match or charity game.

This right here sums up my objections perfectly.  I not too concerned with how secure or insecure Ataullah Guerra is within himself... the issue is that he wasn't representing himself out there he was representing his nation.  You want to clown, genuflect, make friend, hero-worship... fine, do that on your own time.  Yuh want to be a fan, then buy a ticket like everybody else in the stands.  This to me is no different from players swapping shirts at half-time of a match... not serious enough.  For TnT football right now there is no such thing as a "friendly", everybody auditioning, including the TTFA.  We have to be more serious, more dedicated and more professional than that.

some very valid points  :beermug:

the only thing i feel is still an issue and it is limited to myself in terms of my perspective is that insecurity can hamper a player's ability to perform.. once again jmo.. but great points nonetheless


Offline elan

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Re: Ataullah "Bow" Guerra.
« Reply #93 on: June 05, 2014, 11:22:44 AM »
Alyuh fellas have some real soft feelings boy whey sah.

Yuh will swear Tulla kneel down and kiss Messi foot crying and washing Messi foot with he tears. The man make a simple gesture.

Much ado about nothing.
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Offline elan

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Re: Ataullah "Bow" Guerra.
« Reply #94 on: June 05, 2014, 11:24:35 AM »
You mean all those players to ever encounter messi after all these years and only one player actually bow to him? Everyone respects and admires the genius that is Lionel Messi but when you are acting on behalf of your country in a competitive capacity you don't have to bow to anyone. The man bowing and acting all giggly at the other players coming after Messi showing thumbs up etc.

You feel if any other serious country had a player that made this gesture and then gone on to lose the game wouldn't be in uproar. This is already trending, meaning it's not an ordinary gesture to make before competition. I don't care that it is a friendly but you are representing your country. This wasn't a fete match or charity game.

This right here sums up my objections perfectly.  I not too concerned with how secure or insecure Ataullah Guerra is within himself... the issue is that he wasn't representing himself out there he was representing his nation.  You want to clown, genuflect, make friend, hero-worship... fine, do that on your own time.  Yuh want to be a fan, then buy a ticket like everybody else in the stands.  This to me is no different from players swapping shirts at half-time of a match... not serious enough.  For TnT football right now there is no such thing as a "friendly", everybody auditioning, including the TTFA.  We have to be more serious, more dedicated and more professional than that.

Explain how what Tulla did affected the outcome of his game, the team game and how you know that he was not dead serious about the game. What, perception is everything right.
« Last Edit: June 05, 2014, 11:28:14 AM by elan »
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Offline elan

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Re: Ataullah "Bow" Guerra.
« Reply #95 on: June 05, 2014, 11:27:36 AM »
When we play Iran KJ should walk with ah box ah 3 plumes and when the skipper give him the pennant blaze fire on it to show how serious the game is.
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Offline Bakes

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Re: Ataullah "Bow" Guerra.
« Reply #97 on: June 05, 2014, 11:35:56 AM »
some very valid points  :beermug:

the only thing i feel is still an issue and it is limited to myself in terms of my perspective is that insecurity can hamper a player's ability to perform.. once again jmo.. but great points nonetheless

 :beermug:

Explain how what Tulla did affected the outcome of his game, the team game and how you know that he was not dead serious about the game. What, perception is everything right.


I don't have to explain anything beyond what I've already explained.  Disagreement is your right.

Offline elan

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Re: Ataullah "Bow" Guerra.
« Reply #98 on: June 05, 2014, 11:41:07 AM »
some very valid points  :beermug:

the only thing i feel is still an issue and it is limited to myself in terms of my perspective is that insecurity can hamper a player's ability to perform.. once again jmo.. but great points nonetheless

 :beermug:

Explain how what Tulla did affected the outcome of his game, the team game and how you know that he was not dead serious about the game. What, perception is everything right.


I don't have to explain anything beyond what I've already explained.  Disagreement is your right.

Yep, it is.
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Offline Quags

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Re: Ataullah "Bow" Guerra.
« Reply #99 on: June 05, 2014, 11:46:19 AM »
Wait a sec ,I thought that gesture meant "we're not worthy".
From that skit in Wayne's World ,did not know it still had so many other meanings in this digital age.

Offline Dinner Mints

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Re: Ataullah "Bow" Guerra.
« Reply #100 on: June 05, 2014, 11:55:53 AM »
Man tell mih being overly concerned about other people's perceptions of me is a sign of true security, yes. Ah learn a new life lesson!

equality and mental strength is equated with false security?  :bs:

pride and personal achievement is equated with that as well?  :bs:

there is no overly concerned dialogue going on here... just plain insecurity with local trinis and not realizing their value...

so that diatribe you just write is  :bs:
As far as equality and mental strength go, I see a youth who ent fraid to be himself and make a humourous ironic gesture. De man with the hard pan for no good reason but to show he hard? That's de man who you might want to have de 'insecurity' talk with.

Allyuh does twist up when man wearing sneakers with suit, though. So, I shouldn't really be surprised by dis stodgy, false pride foolishness.

Offline FF

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Re: Ataullah "Bow" Guerra.
« Reply #101 on: June 05, 2014, 12:13:46 PM »
When we play Iran KJ should walk with ah box ah 3 plumes and when the skipper give him the pennant blaze fire on it to show how serious the game is.


  :pissedoff:  :pissedoff: :pissedoff:

:rotfl: :rotfl:
THE BEATINGS WILL CONTINUE UNTIL MORALE IMPROVES

Offline Andre

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Re: Ataullah "Bow" Guerra.
« Reply #102 on: June 05, 2014, 01:38:00 PM »
Massa Day Done

Offline Socapro

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Re: Ataullah "Bow" Guerra.
« Reply #103 on: June 05, 2014, 01:53:36 PM »
This was very embarrassing. Dont give your opponents power over you..

He should have been subbed right after.
The shaking on hands happened before the match started.
De higher a monkey climbs is de less his ass is on de line, if he works for FIFA that is! ;-)

Offline Socapro

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Re: Ataullah "Bow" Guerra.
« Reply #104 on: June 05, 2014, 02:33:45 PM »
Alyuh fellas have some real soft feelings boy whey sah.

Yuh will swear Tulla kneel down and kiss Messi foot crying and washing Messi foot with he tears. The man make a simple gesture.

Much ado about nothing.
:rotfl:
De higher a monkey climbs is de less his ass is on de line, if he works for FIFA that is! ;-)

Offline asylumseeker

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Re: Ataullah "Bow" Guerra.
« Reply #105 on: June 05, 2014, 02:45:40 PM »
Ah wish ah had seen the pre-match formalities as they were happening. I didn't .. so ah doh know what my reaction to the Guerra/Messi moment would have been instinctively. Having seen it a few times ... and hours later, ah doh seem to have any beef wid Guerra.

On to Sao Paulo and Iran!






Offline Bitter

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Re: Ataullah "Bow" Guerra.
« Reply #106 on: June 05, 2014, 03:07:48 PM »
Bitter is a supercalifragilistic tic-tac-pro

Offline Flex

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Re: Ataullah "Bow" Guerra.
« Reply #107 on: June 05, 2014, 03:18:54 PM »
Rowley: T&T doesn't bow to anyone
...Kamla wrong to kiss Indian president's foot
By Stories by Joel Julien (Express).


Jan 18, 2012

"THE ultimate subservient of superiority and inferiority being demonstrated".

This was how Opposition Leader Dr Keith Rowley described Prime Minister Kamla Persad-Bissessar touching the foot of Indian President Pratibha Patil during a State visit earlier this month.

Persad-Bissessar returned from a two-week trip to India on Sunday.

Rowley raised the issue which he described as "unacceptable" during a political meeting held by the People's National Movement (PNM) at Febeau Open Bible Church Tuesday night.

"I am a citizen of Trinidad and Tobago and I take umbrage at my Prime Minister going to anybody's country and kissing any office holder's foot," Rowley said to loud applause.

"I am not concerned about her religious persuasion in this country... We are very tolerant," he said.

Rowley said Persad-Bissessar was representing the country and should not have bowed to touch Patil's foot.

"Nobody sent the Prime Minister abroad to represent her religion or her race. She went abroad to represent all the people of Trinidad and Tobago and, however, she feels when she stands in front of the head of government or the head of state she must stand there proud representing the people of Trinidad and Tobago," Rowley said.

"That is the ultimate subservient of superiority and inferiority being demonstrated. We past that stage since the world was told by Eric Williams (former prime minister) that we will not be doing that again and India was in the forefront of that," he said.

Rowley referenced a Times of India newpaper story which stated Persad-Bissessar "went too far to demonstrate her Indian-ness".

"India's independence was the first of the British colonies. All of us followed after and I am sure they did not expect that our Prime Minister would come and kiss their leader's foot," Rowley said.

"So of course now we expect according to her logic if (US President Barack) Obama ever goes to Kenya he will bend down and kiss the foot of somebody in Kenya because his grandfather came from Kenya," Rowley said.

"That is unacceptable and we dismiss the excuse makers, we are a proud nation. When India votes at the United Nations if we vote differently we cancel out India's vote, one billion people against one million people. We are equal in the eyes of the world. Size and power are no longer your station in this world," he said.

Rowley said if Persad-Bissessar went in a private capacity he would not have raised the issue.

"That is personal, that is private, if you go there on your private capacity you could do that. If you go there in your personal capacity you can do that...I will have no argument with it but when you represent all the people of Trinidad and Tobago, do not go and kiss anybody's foot on my behalf. Do not do that," he said.

"And when you wear Trinidad and Tobago red, white and black we do not defer or bow down to any nation in this world. We meet you on the cricket field we beat you, we meet you on the race track we beat you, we meet you in the university we beat you, that is Trinidad and Tobago. We are equal to all and inferior to none that is how we are building this nation," Rowley said.

The real measure of a man's character is what he would do if he knew he would never be found out.

Offline vb

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Re: Ataullah "Bow" Guerra.
« Reply #108 on: June 05, 2014, 03:38:29 PM »
Rowley doh take it so hard boy.

It's just a traditional Hindu custom. She did't kiss anybody foot. She simply did what comes naturally to Hindus after more than 2000 years of custom. She didn't stop being Hindu because she became PM.

I could see how non Hindus would be offended by this from their PM.
But some ppl don't throw away their culture just so.

I am here in Turkey and it's the norm as a sign of respect to make a motion as if to kiss the hand and bring it to your forehead as a sign of respect to elders.

Sometimes older ppl do it to the younger ones if really grateful for something.

Is not like the woman does bow and scrape everywhere she go.

You would swear she was on her knees performing a toejob the way Rowley bawling.

VB

VITAMIN V...KEEPS THE LADIES HEALTHY...:-)

Offline maxg

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Re: Ataullah "Bow" Guerra.
« Reply #109 on: June 05, 2014, 03:47:44 PM »
 :rotfl:

Offline Flex

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Re: Ataullah "Bow" Guerra.
« Reply #110 on: June 05, 2014, 03:56:56 PM »
I (IMO) saw nothing wrong with Guerra did...

The real measure of a man's character is what he would do if he knew he would never be found out.

Offline triniairman

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Re: Ataullah "Bow" Guerra.
« Reply #111 on: June 05, 2014, 05:59:04 PM »
Guerra say the man is a "Football God" ... So I guess the bow was appropriate. He was just being a star struck dummy, that's all!

Offline dinho

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Re: Ataullah "Bow" Guerra.
« Reply #112 on: June 05, 2014, 06:31:36 PM »
         

Offline royal

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Re: Ataullah "Bow" Guerra.
« Reply #113 on: June 05, 2014, 06:32:05 PM »
T&T midfielder Ataullah Guerra, who grabbed headlines for the way he greeted The Barcelona star during the meeting of the teams, said he had no regrets over his action.

“He is a football God. This was an amazing experience for all of us. Just to be on the same field with him was great. To see the way he controlled the ball and his team was something we will never forget. I think we all learned a lot from this game today. I thought my greeting to him was a mark of respect also and he seemed to appreciate it. There was no problem with that,” the Central FC and former Finnish-based professional told TTFA Media.

Offline Football supporter

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Re: Ataullah "Bow" Guerra.
« Reply #114 on: June 05, 2014, 06:41:25 PM »
I think you all need to get a little perspective here. I don't recall Maradona being ripped apart by Argentinians when he kissed Ronaldinho's hand. I mean, he KISSED the man's hand! That gesture was applauded.
This season, Caledonia lined up to applaud W.Connection as they took the pitch after winning the Pro League. I don't think it had a negative effect on Caledonia's performance.
I've seen plenty of teams in rugby, cricket even the EPL applaud other teams before they "went to war" against them.
Damn, even the British and Germans shook hands and played football on Xmas day during the First World War.
Tullah's actions are certainly worth commenting on, but it would appear that some people feel he committed treason!

Offline Football supporter

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Re: Ataullah "Bow" Guerra.
« Reply #115 on: June 05, 2014, 06:42:24 PM »

Offline congo

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Re: Ataullah "Bow" Guerra.
« Reply #116 on: June 05, 2014, 07:48:18 PM »
I relll not seeing those comparisons though. I would like to see Jack Wilshire bow to Nasri whilst representing the national team before competition then see and hear what the British and french societies make of it. Those comparisons are BS.

Offline Bakes

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Re: Ataullah "Bow" Guerra.
« Reply #117 on: June 05, 2014, 08:09:28 PM »


This meme is both pointless and stupid.  If ah man want to bow while wearing he club uniform then that is on he and the club.  If Maradona, long after he retired and clearly in his private capacity want kiss ah next man hand then that is his prerogative.  Neither of those situations compares to what Guerra did.

Offline SWF Reporter

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Re: Ataullah "Bow" Guerra.
« Reply #118 on: June 05, 2014, 08:53:52 PM »
Guerra-gate: Live Wire identifies the Warriors’ real sense of shame
By Mr Live Wire (Wired868)

An act of humility towards an Argentine man with a supposed gateway to divinity continues to mystify and discomfort cynics in the wake of Trinidad and Tobago’s friendly international against Argentina in Buenos Aires last night.

But enough about the habitual greeting for Pope Francis; what about Ataullah Guerra’s pre-kick off bow to football legend Lionel Messi?

It is customary to genuflect before the Pope since Catholics believe him to have the ear of God. But how do you greet the little Barcelona player who might have Jesus’ left foot?

Well, Guerra hailed Messi with a bow and grin before kick off; the sort of thing that pardners sometimes do on the street corner. And, from the social media meltdown that followed, one might have thought that the Central FC midfielder and former John John resident had invited the Argentina captain up to room 201.
It turns out that Trinidad and Tobago is quite interested in what its footballers get up to, which might pleasantly surprise the “Soca Warriors” who usually play in front of near deserted 90 stadia at home and can barely rely on public or private sector funding to even have training camps. Who knew?



But Guerra was not the only national football team member to display mistimed subservience this week.
On Sunday, the Trinidad and Tobago national football team turned up at the Piarco International Airport to travel to Buenos Aires; only to be told that the Ministry of Tourism’s chartered flight had struck goalkeeper coach Michael Maurice, a former “Strike Squad” player with over four decades of service to his country, and therapist Dave Isaac off the travelling list.

So, a Government that considers sisters and mistresses to be appropriate taxpayer-funded travel companions decided that the Warriors should do without two important staff members for two days while president Anthony Carmona and wife, Brian Lara, the Siparia Rhythm Section and dozens of even less relevant persons boarded.

At times like this, a national coach should ask himself: “What would Leo Beenhakker do?”
Beenhakker, the renowned former Real Madrid and Netherlands coach, famously asked the local football body for three pairs of Copa Mundial Adidas boots, 10 FIFA-approved balls and a movable goalpost for his first training session with Trinidad and Tobago.

Instead, he got Kaiser Adidas boots, non-FIFA balls and a verbal assurance that the goalpost would be sourced soon and he should continue with what was available for now.

Beenhakker supposedly replied that he would start only when he had the tools he deemed necessary; and, within a day, then TTFF special advisor Jack Warner sourced the relevant goalpost and had boots and balls delivered via Fed Ex. The coach went on to lead Trinidad and Tobago to a historic 2006 World Cup place.

Tobagonian Bertille St Clair has form for such defiance too.

His first chance to coach a national senior team came in the mid-1990s when German Jochen Figge selected him as an assistant. Then TTFF president Oliver Camps told St Clair the good news but warned him that there was no money to pay a salary and he would have to settle for a stipend.

“Is Figge getting a salary?” asked St Clair, who was the first coach to take Trinidad and Tobago to a FIFA tournament back in 1991.

“Yes,” replied Camps.

“When allyuh find money to pay me too, call me,” said St Clair, who got up and headed straight for the airport to catch a flight back to Tobago.

A few years later, the TTFF offered St Clair the head coaching job; and he remains the only person to take Trinidad and Tobago to a CONCACAF Gold Cup semifinal place.

Neither Beenhakker nor St Clair would have bowed to such disrespect at Piarco and boarded that flight to Buenos Aires. The Ministry of Tourism would have had to either get Maurice and Isaac on board or put Carmona in goal to demonstrate his powers against Messi.

But Trinidad and Tobago head coach Stephen Hart took his team on the chartered plane. And, three days later, his words might have had a hollow ring when he urged his players to stand up for themselves against Argentina.

Hart is an affable gentleman and possesses a sound tactical mind. But neither attribute is as key to success in these parts as stubborn, single-minded vision and a refusal to go with the flow.

He has been warned.

As for the Trinidad and Tobago citizens who are more concerned with Guerra’s courtesy to Messi than his promising performance once the game kicked off, Mr Live Wire offers a short tutorial about what shame really is:

Shame is when men come to kidnap your wife and you run and dive to save your maid;

Shame is when the acting Police Commissioner says the best Minister he ever worked with it is under investigation from every integrity body and law agency in the country and a few internationally too;

Shame is when the Opposition Leader blasts the Chaguanas West MP all over the place for ‘thiefing’ the footballers’ money and it is the PNM treasurer that helped him get away with it;

Shame is when your Prime Minister auditioned to be a Laker girl when a retired NBA star visited but never showed up to watch a local basketball game yet;

Shame is when the Government handing millions to former murder convicts in the Life Sport program and then cancelling leave for policemen and soldiers so they can act like they’re trying to fight crime;

Shame is when the Sport Minister and coach of a top Olympian lectures everybody about morality and still cannot explain what Minister Two Pull was rolling in a home video;

And shame is when the Port of Spain mayor is too busy to meet his environs in a town meeting then runs off for five days in Buenos Aires to see Lionel Messi play; and everybody thinks it is a 26-year-old Trinidad and Tobago footballer who acted like a groupie.
« Last Edit: June 09, 2014, 04:44:00 PM by Tiresais »

Offline Preacher

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Re: Ataullah "Bow" Guerra.
« Reply #119 on: June 05, 2014, 09:53:35 PM »
Alyuh fellas have some real soft feelings boy whey sah.

Yuh will swear Tulla kneel down and kiss Messi foot crying and washing Messi foot with he tears. The man make a simple gesture.

Much ado about nothing.

Yep!!!!    :beermug:    The man was just pumped and ready for the game. 
In Everything give thanks for this is the will of God concerning you.

 

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