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Author Topic: ASSASSINATION PLOT THREAD  (Read 16025 times)

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Offline elan

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Re: ASSASSINATION PLOT THREAD
« Reply #30 on: November 30, 2011, 04:44:16 PM »
Detention orders for 7 alleged assassins
Published: Wed, 2011-11-30 20:23
Geisha Kowlessar & Derek Achong

 
Selwyn Alexis, also known as “Robocop”, a businessman of Francois Street, Enerprise, Chaguanas is one of the detainees. The State has identified seven alleged assassins involved in a conspiracy to kill Prime Minister Kamla Persad-Bissessar and three of her Cabinet colleagues. Five others have been named in a plot to destabilised Trinidad and Tobago and cause major panic. Up to late yesterday, another suspect, held in east Port-of-Spain, was being questioned by police in connection with the plot. Detention orders for the 12 suspects were served yesterday at police stations in north Trinidad. Although the detention order stated the 12 detainees were to be house at the Eastern Detection Correctional and Rehabilitation Centre at Santa Rosa, Arima, it was learnt they were instead sent to the Golden Grove Prison, Arouca
The orders were enacted under the Emergency Powers Regulations 2011, made by National Security Minister John Sandy, in accordance with paragraph two of the regulations.

On Monday, at a National Security Ministry press briefing, Sandy revealed there were 13 people involved in the plot. The detention orders were drafted and served on the suspects late yesterday. The final suspect is expected to be served with a similar order today. The T&T Guardian was reliably informed, however, that the detainees have maintained their innocence. While the hunt is on for more suspects believed to be associated in the plot to assassinate Persad-Bissessar, senior investigators, however, have expressed doubt whether criminal charges could in fact be laid against those detained. Police sources said yesterday they believed other people, mainly from the Central area, could assist them with unearthing fresh information.

Investigators said they were hoping they could obtain tangible evidence before the state of emergency expired on Monday so that charges could be laid. “Right now we are working with what we have and that’s the best we could do. We believe we have the people we need at this point. “As we continue our investigations we believe there may be other people who can help us and we will be looking for them,” one senior investigator said. The alleged plot is believed to have stemmed from intelligence officers intercepting telephone conversations. Investigators said Ashmeed Choate, the Islamic scholar of Calcutta No 1, Freeport was the first person to be served with the detention order. He was arrested at his home by Special Branch officers last Tuesday. Prisons sources said the first batch of people sent to prison, via a detention order, were insurrectionists involved in the attempted 1990 coup. Prisons officials also added that the detainees would be treated like any other inmate, adding that no special treatment would be afforded to them.Contacted yesterday Gary Griffith, national security advisor to Persad-Bissessar, said security continued to be very heightened around the Prime Minister.

List of detainees:
• Selwyn Alexis, also known as “Robocop”, a businessman of Francois Street, Enerprise, Chaguanas.
• Yohann Cruickshank, also called “Wally”, of Mayers Lane, Chrissie Terrace, Longdenville, Chaguanas.
• David Millard, also known as “Buffy”, of 64, La Baja Road, Maracas, St Joseph.
• Andy Brown, also called “Sudan”, of Green and King Streets, Plymouth, Tobago.
• Police Sergeant Earl Elie, of Sampson Trace, off Cunupia Road, Cunupia. He was last assigned to the St Clair Police Station.
• William Taylor, also known as “Billy”, of Cumuto Main Road, Wallerfield, Cumuto.
• Bryan Barrington, also called “Soldier Barry”, of 20, Partap Trace, South Oropouche. Barrington is a former member of the Defence Force and was dishonourably discharged from the service.
• Khalil Karamath. of 30, Palm Road, Valsayn North, Valsayn. Karamath is the son of late contractor Hafeez Karamath.
• Shane Crawford, also called “Asadullah”, of
349 Dass Branch Trance, Enterprise.
• Milton Algernon, also called Fareed Mustapha ,of 34, Hibiscus Arc Road, Rio Claro. Algernon is a member of the T&T Sheep and Goat Farmers’ Association.
• Chionesu Luqman, also called Asim Cuffie, and also called Salim Luqman, of Mon Repos, Upper Malick, Morvant, and of Thomas Trace, East Dry River, Port-of-Spain ,and of St Margaret’s Lane, Belmont.
• Ashmeed Choate, an Islamic scholar, of Craignish Road, Princes Town.
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Offline elan

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Re: ASSASSINATION PLOT THREAD
« Reply #31 on: November 30, 2011, 04:46:09 PM »
Lawyers claiming unlawful arrests
Published: Wed, 2011-11-30 20:23
 
Even as detention orders were being served on two of the men held in connection with an alleged plot to assassinate Prime Minister Kamla Persad-Bissessar and three Government Ministers, their attorneys were proceeding with habeas corpus writ applications in the High Court. The applications are seeking to force authorities to justify the continuing detention of the men. The detention orders are expected to expire on Monday, coinciding with the end of the ongoing state of emergency. One detainee, Khalil Karamath, was served with the order while his matter was being heard before Justice David Harris in the Port-of-Spain High Court.

Karamath, 23, was arrested last Wednesday at his Palm Road, Valsayn, home by officers of the North Eastern Division Task Force, led by Cpl Sunil Bharath. Karamath is the son of late contractor Hafeez Karamath. During yesterday’s hearing, which was held in a closed-chamber court, attorneys representing Karamath claimed their client’s detention was unlawful. Karamath was taken to the Golden Grove Prison facility where he is expected to be housed for the duration of his detention order.
The matter was adjourned to a date to be decided by the court. During a simultaneous hearing before Justice Andre des Vignes in a separate court, another application, on behalf of Ashmeed Choate, of Craignish Village, Princes Town, was adjourned to tomorrow because of the absence of State counsel, who were before Justice Harris.

Choate was brought to the court almost an hour after the matter was adjourned. Choate was served with a detention order late yesterday evening and is said to be housed at the Arouca Police Station.
Several of Choate’s female relatives attended yesterday’s hearing. Before they were served with detention orders under Section 3 of the Emergency Powers Regulations of 2011, both men were held for a seven days under Section 16.3 of the said regulations which allows investigators more time to continue investigations. Last week a habeas corpus application was filed on behalf of another detainee, Selwyn “Robocop” Alexis, days after his arrest.  That application was later withdrawn by his attorney, Joseph Honare, after Alexis was served with a notice of continuing detention under Section 16.3 of the regulations. Karamath is being represented by a team of attorneys, including Ravi Rajcoomar, John Heath and Irshaad Ali. Rajcoomar, Rishi Dass and Faris al Rawi appeared on behalf of Choate.
Senior Counsel Dana Seetahal and attorney Larry Lalla appeared on behalf of the State in both matters.
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Offline elan

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Re: ASSASSINATION PLOT THREAD
« Reply #32 on: November 30, 2011, 04:50:26 PM »
AG on alleged death threat detentions: Govt working on laying charges before Monday
Published: Wed, 2011-11-30 20:23
Richard Lord



Attorney General Anand Ramlogan says the State is working around-the-clock to establish a case for people arrested under the state of emergency detention orders to be charged before Monday. He said that during an interview during yesterday’s Senate lunch break at Tower D, Waterfront Complex, Port-of-Spain. Asked what would be the State’s position if those detained were freed at the expiration of the emergency on Monday, Ramlogan said: “We’ll cross that bridge when we come to it. “The police have to do their work (and) the challenge now is for us to gather the various parts of the jigsaw puzzle and see whether or not you can put together a case that will satisfy the legal requirements for the DPP (Director of Public Prosecutions) to proffer charges.”

He said that was a matter “entirely for the security agencies and they are working ‘round-the-clock and trying their very best.” Asked if that must be done by Monday, Ramlogan said: “Well, I would assume so.”
He said the National Security Minister was responsible for the operational aspects of the matter while he (AG) was on the pulse of the legal aspects of the matter. Ramlogan said he was doing “all that is necessary and required to ensure the interest of justice will be served.” He also denied any move by the  Government to draft new legislation to allow for those detained under the detention orders to be charged after the expiration of the emergency. Ramlogan also responded to questions on a claim by Opposition Senator Fitzgerald Hinds that the emergency was creating religious divisions between Hindus and Muslims in T&T.

Ramlogan said any move “to inject passions of race and religion in the affairs of national security will be reckless and dangerous.” He said the law enforcement agencies were operating on the basis of intelligence presented to them. He said intelligence was not driven by anything to do with race or religion. He said when the list of detainees was revealed it may show the varied mix of people in T&T.
Ramlogan said T&T has had a rich and proud history of managing “diversity and any extremist and fundamentalist sects within our country.”
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Offline elan

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Re: ASSASSINATION PLOT THREAD
« Reply #33 on: November 30, 2011, 04:53:12 PM »
He won’t even hurt an ant—colleagues
Shock over detention of Islamic scholar...

Published: Wed, 2011-11-30 21:38
Radhica Sookraj



Colleagues of Islamic scholar Ashmeed Choate, one of the persons served with a detention order by National Security Minister John Sandy, claim he is so compassionate about life he would not even kill an ant. Choate, 56, of Craignish Village, Princes Town, operates the Darul Qur’an Wal Hadith Islamic school in Freeport. Yesterday, his colleagues expressed shock and surprise at his detention. They said Choate, who opened the school in 2003, had never been involved in any illicit activities and did not have a criminal record. The school has an enrolment of more than 100, from kindergarten to CXC levels, and a staff 11 teachers.

There are concerns about the future of the school, now that its founder has been incarcerated.  A senior teacher told the T&T Guardian that the school had a full turnout of students yesterday. “He is compassionate man and easy to approach,” the teacher said. “Right now we are in shock because we know that this is a malicious lie...He is like a father to us. “What our own husbands did not do for us, he did,” said the woman, who was dressed in a burka which covered her face and body. She explained that Choate spent most of his time at the private Islamic school.

“He comes in here from 6.30 and stays until 2 pm,” she said. “He does not travel abroad...He did some studies in Saudi Arabia but he is no terrorist or killer.” She added that Choate always taught his pupils to preserve life. “He says whatever have life, you leave it alone,” she said. “He insisted to the students not to kill the ants in the school...This is why we are so baffled that the police arrested him.” Another teacher, who said she was a Seventh-Day Adventist, said she had spent time with Choate discussing the differences between Christianity and Islam. She added that Choate worked at the Moruga Secondary School before he decided to open his own private school.

The institution has no funding from the Government and students are registered for the SEA and CXC exams privately. The teachers said the Ministry of Education curriculum was followed rigidly, although pupils were also exposed to Islamic studies. “The focus here is academics but we also teach the children basic morals and values to help them with life,” a teacher said. Choate’s grandfather started the popular Ali’s Doubles at Craignish and operated a variety store in Princes Town. Before opening the school, Choate studied in Saudi Arabia.
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Offline elan

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Re: ASSASSINATION PLOT THREAD
« Reply #34 on: November 30, 2011, 04:54:39 PM »
Assassination? Not in T&T says Robocop’s wife
Published: Wed, 2011-11-30 21:38
Radhica Sookraj


 
Krystal Alexis, daughter of Selwyn “Robocop” Alexis, holds her daughter Khalida Sanchez yesterday. PHOTO: RISHI RAGOONATH Bernadette Alexis, wife of Selwyn “Robocop” Alexis said yesterday that T&T was not the kind of nation where a Prime Minister would ever be assassinated because people were too passive. She was speaking during a telephone interview while returning from the Belmont Police Station where her husband was detained. Alexis, a former murder accused, has been detained under the Emergency Powers Regulations. Bernadette, however, said she did not believe this plot was true. “It is a sad thing because we voted for her...Why would we plot to kill her when we put her in that position,” she said.

She added that Persad-Bissessar was the “mother of the nation” and even if people were disgruntled about her policies, nobody would want to kill her. “Look at how much nonsense Patrick Manning do and nobody plot to kill him,” she said. “Why would anybody plot to kill her...This is stupidness. “In Trinidad, we don’t have assassins and snipers...We will grumble but we won’t kill.” She said she was also worried about Alexis as he fell ill while in custody and was taken to Port-of-Spain General Hospital on Thursday. She said she went to drop food for Alexis at the Belmont Police Station around noon yesterday but was told he was taken to the Santa Rosa detention centre.

“Right now, I don’t even know where that is and I am worried about him,” Bernadette said. Meanwhile, Krystal Alexis, Robocop’s daughter said she was upset because the Government was using her father in a political game. She denied that he was involved in any plot, saying the arrest had embarrassed her family. Speaking from the family’s shop at Enterprise, Chaguanas, Krystal said many people in Enterprise were upset by the detention orders. “People coming here and saying this is total craziness,” she added.

Meanwhile, people who live near detainee Shane Crawford said they never knew much about him. Crawford has two addresses—Dass Branch Trace, Enterprise, Chaguanas, and Balisier Road, Smithfield Lands, Wallerfield. At Dass Trace, residents said Crawford lived in an apartment and never mixed much. At Wallerfield, residents also said they did not know Crawford.
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Offline Bourbon

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Re: ASSASSINATION PLOT THREAD
« Reply #35 on: November 30, 2011, 07:18:18 PM »
Wait wait wait wait.

Nobody get charged yet right? So far is just detained?

Hm.


So much people from different parts of the country....with no consistent connecting thread......interesting.


*Edit*

Talking to my reporter brethrin.....he saying dat "the men held know each other and do business together."

He also say that he getting the impression they being held for something else other than the assination plot....BUT they being touted as being responsible.

So....we just hadda wait and see.

Dey hadda charge somebody by monday. If they dont...dey go get branded as frauds.
If dey do charge somebody and the case doh stick...they go get branded as frauds. (And dey cyar blame de legislation or the police this time i think.)
If dey do charge somebody and the case sticks and the persons found guilty.....well then.....they could say..."see...told you so."


So lets wait and see.


« Last Edit: November 30, 2011, 07:30:04 PM by Bourbon »
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Offline STEUPS!!

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Re: ASSASSINATION PLOT THREAD
« Reply #36 on: November 30, 2011, 10:04:50 PM »
well on the news tonight as he PM was being interviewed at some appearance she had today, she was surrounded by reporters and was probably asked if she felt safe with all that has happened and she responded, (paraphrasing), she isnt worried for her safety in this ALLEGED plot.

ahhmmm.  :thinking:

aren't investigations being done and evidence being gathered about the plot. aren't people being detained based on evidence??

so for days Sandy, Gibbs, Griffith and Kamla have been sayin 'the threat is real, the threat is real'. now today. it is ALLEGED. lol

 :whistling:

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Offline sammy

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Re: ASSASSINATION PLOT THREAD
« Reply #37 on: December 01, 2011, 06:19:36 AM »
well on the news tonight as he PM was being interviewed at some appearance she had today, she was surrounded by reporters and was probably asked if she felt safe with all that has happened and she responded, (paraphrasing), she isnt worried for her safety in this ALLEGED plot.

ahhmmm.  :thinking:

aren't investigations being done and evidence being gathered about the plot. aren't people being detained based on evidence??

so for days Sandy, Gibbs, Griffith and Kamla have been sayin 'the threat is real, the threat is real'. now today. it is ALLEGED. lol

 :whistling:



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Offline weary1969

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Re: ASSASSINATION PLOT THREAD
« Reply #38 on: December 01, 2011, 06:39:54 AM »
well on the news tonight as he PM was being interviewed at some appearance she had today, she was surrounded by reporters and was probably asked if she felt safe with all that has happened and she responded, (paraphrasing), she isnt worried for her safety in this ALLEGED plot.

ahhmmm.  :thinking:

aren't investigations being done and evidence being gathered about the plot. aren't people being detained based on evidence??

so for days Sandy, Gibbs, Griffith and Kamla have been sayin 'the threat is real, the threat is real'. now today. it is ALLEGED. lol

 :whistling:



Doh worry by 2 mor it go b a window and by Mon 5th WHAT PLOT. She would have misspoke and would just b another misstep. The SOE ends on Monday but d SIE continues. We are a State In Emergency
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Offline Brownsugar

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Re: ASSASSINATION PLOT THREAD
« Reply #39 on: December 01, 2011, 07:42:43 AM »
Anybody else find this headline real jokey??......de man is accostumed to the likes of One Woodbrook Place....how dare they put him in "Guantanamo"......:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:


Golden Grove 'below Robocop's standards'   
By Richard Charan


Selwyn "Robocop" Alexis complained yesterday that he was being kept in atrocious conditions in "Guantanamo"—the high-risk section of the Golden Grove Prison in Arouca.

He told his son, Kerron Alexis, the accommodation was below his standards and the State had breached the detention order that was served on him on Monday.

According to the copy of the order served on Alexis, signed by National Security Minister John Sandy, it specifies that Alexis be held at the Eastern Detention and Correctional Rehabilitation Centre at Santa Rosa, Arima.

Kerron Alexis said he was allowed to meet with his father for 15 minutes, while masked prison officers stood by "as if my father already convicted".

He said Alexis wanted the public to know he was willing to submit to a lie detector test.

Alexis also wanted the police officers who arrested him at One Woodbrook Place, in Woodbrook, to also take the test.

Alexis was held at One Woodbrook Place a week into the declaration of the State of Emergency and was charged with murder.

However, the case was dropped and Alexis was freed three weeks after Director of Public Prosecutions Roger Gaspard was shown evidence that the State's star witness had fabricated his statement implicating Alexis.

Alexis was rearrested a week later and subsequently implicated in the alleged plot to kill Prime Minister Kamla Persad-Bissessar and three Cabinet ministers.

Through his son, he asked yesterday why investigators were only now looking for evidence to charge him.

Alexis said he wanted to meet with Prime Minister Persad-Bissessar or any police officer who was "not corrupted".

His lawyer, Joseph Honore, said he believed Alexis was telling the truth.

Honore said, "We are not going before any (review) tribunal because by the time they are ready to hear the matter, it will be Monday and the end of the State of Emergency and he will be released."

http://www.trinidadexpress.com/news/Golden_Grove__below_Robocop_s_standards_-134803563.html
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Offline Trini

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Re: ASSASSINATION PLOT THREAD
« Reply #40 on: December 01, 2011, 09:30:53 AM »
In most other countries in the world, if something like this goes down, the press might not even hear about it.
I know for a fact here in the US, if you pick up your cell phone and call ANYONE ELSE and say certain specific words that are connected to terrorism, the US presidency, etc etc in one conversation, I can guarantee you a big black van will pull up outside your house, storm your place and detain you...
You will be held under special US legislature and your family won't even know what happen to you.
Your entire life will be surgically examined, every person you communicated with in the last few months will be checked out, and even if there is a sniff of something, you might be shipped off to God knows where, where the best of the best of the CIA/FBI/Mossad will have fun with you.

The point I am making is that any threat, whether its alleged or just a hint, must be investigated fully, because of the potential symbolic risk. We very lucky in T&T, cause we so small, and everbody know everybody, its very hard for a Govt to secretly round up people...

Its like now how you can't even say certain phrases while in the airport in the US, you will be reported and detained.

When the SOE started, we began to hear reports of gangsters being upset and were promising retaliation when they got out.
Add that to the picture they found of Kamla in Robocop's house, the large cache of arms in Valsayn last year, the radical Islamic link, and you have more than enough to at least warrant detailed investigation.

I am sure we the public are only privy to about 30% of all that is going on, its no secret the CIA has full time operations in Trinidad, hell its been even in the news that the Govt working together with them.

Now whether the threat is really as serious as it is being made out to be, the Govt has a duty to inform the population once (if) these men are charged by Monday. I will not be surprised if they are released, it seems we have some incompetent people in law enforcement, but with external help it may work.

I for one do not listen to any reports of family who say their people not involved in this, or its political in nature - most of the 9/11 suicide bombers' family spoke of how gentle and loving their people were.

I slightly skeptical on this whole issue, but I giving the Govt till Monday to inform us.

All the bad talk they badtalk the previous administration for bringing in all that Israeli spy equipment, its that same thing they using now for these threats...

Trinidad has had 2 uprisings in its past, we have been home to radical terrorists who threaten the western world, we have had attempts on a president's life, a former attorney general murdered. Whether we like it or not, there are things afoot in sweet T&T that we would not like to believe is reality.

Any govt of the day has the duty, right and hopefully the common sense to investigate these things properly, exactly as Robocop said in the press.
I remember Panday being threatened, I remember Manning as well, but both those issues quickly disappeared. Will this be any different?
 
We need some answers come Monday when either they are charged or released.


Offline elan

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Re: ASSASSINATION PLOT THREAD
« Reply #41 on: December 01, 2011, 10:01:51 AM »
Trinidad has had 2 uprisings in its past, we have been home to radical terrorists who threaten the western world, we have had attempts on a president's life, a former attorney general murdered. Whether we like it or not, there are things afoot in sweet T&T that we would not like to believe is reality.



When that happened?
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Offline Jah Gol

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Re: ASSASSINATION PLOT THREAD
« Reply #42 on: December 01, 2011, 10:03:20 AM »
Trini it wasn't a matter of the plot being difficult to contain in small country, it was a case of Government and the PM in particular boldly publicizing this as an act of retribution for the SOE. An allegation which as time goes by is losing credibility. It is interesting as Brownsugar pointed out that the PM is now calling it an 'alleged' plot. I'm not trying to be flippant about this at all. I think the fact that soldiers have already been discharged points to a degree of mischief in itself. What is discouraging is there hasn't been a single person charged. What this points to at the very least is the Government tried to gain political points by skewing preliminary information about a plot while investigations were still ongoing. This is irresponsible in the extreme.

We should have heard about this a day before we had men in handcuffs ,charged for crimes.

Offline lefty

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Re: ASSASSINATION PLOT THREAD
« Reply #43 on: December 01, 2011, 10:20:22 AM »
dat is d ting d gov't so taken up with attempting to win, sway, skew and control public opinion dat they consistently trip over themselves everything is a publicity stunt............simple example I take the water taxi every morning.......the crews got an idea to start showing the morning news ....TV6 news to be exact......all of ah sudden is CNMG propaganda news from d night before and  specifically packaged for d water taxi steups
I pity the fool....

Offline weary1969

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Re: ASSASSINATION PLOT THREAD
« Reply #44 on: December 01, 2011, 10:22:53 AM »
dat is d ting d gov't so taken up with attempting to win, sway, skew and control public opinion dat they consistently trip over themselves everything is a publicity stunt............simple example I take the water taxi every morning.......the crews got an idea to start showing the morning news ....TV6 news to be exact......all of ah sudden is CNMG propaganda news from d night before and  specifically packaged for d water taxi steups

U self if dey givin UWI students BB 4 Blogging u eh expect dat u go see C News on d water taxi.
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Offline lefty

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Re: ASSASSINATION PLOT THREAD
« Reply #45 on: December 01, 2011, 10:31:45 AM »
I'm speaking more to d fact dat dey jump on dat like rabid wolves.......... what was ah "nice to have" that occurred occasionally was hijacked and made into standardized political gimmickry
I pity the fool....

Offline Feliziano

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Re: ASSASSINATION PLOT THREAD
« Reply #46 on: December 01, 2011, 10:52:26 AM »
Trinidad has had 2 uprisings in its past, we have been home to radical terrorists who threaten the western world, we have had attempts on a president's life, a former attorney general murdered. Whether we like it or not, there are things afoot in sweet T&T that we would not like to believe is reality.



When that happened?
Not sure if he was talking bout a group but one of the top Al Qaeda men still missing is a Guyanese Trini..can't recall his name at the moment
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Offline Trini

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Re: ASSASSINATION PLOT THREAD
« Reply #47 on: December 01, 2011, 11:13:57 AM »
Trini it wasn't a matter of the plot being difficult to contain in small country, it was a case of Government and the PM in particular boldly publicizing this as an act of retribution for the SOE. An allegation which as time goes by is losing credibility. It is interesting as Brownsugar pointed out that the PM is now calling it an 'alleged' plot. I'm not trying to be flippant about this at all. I think the fact that soldiers have already been discharged points to a degree of mischief in itself. What is discouraging is there hasn't been a single person charged. What this points to at the very least is the Government tried to gain political points by skewing preliminary information about a plot while investigations were still ongoing. This is irresponsible in the extreme.

We should have heard about this a day before we had men in handcuffs ,charged for crimes.

I agree, some of this undoubtedly points to political mileage, just like Rowley doing the same, as I said at least I will give them until Monday when the accused have to be charged or released, to come clean to the population.
The GOP used a similar thing to trump up Bush's ratings in the 2 years after 9-11.
But it turned back round to bite them, as you can argue the Republicans biggest gaffe was the supposed Iraq WMD scenario, which proved to be a white elephant. Perhaps this is also what brought down the British PM at the time....
This whole episode has the potential to be just as damaging for the PP if this all proves to be one big conspiracy for political mileage or as a diversionary tactic by the Govt.

This is where your PR peeps earn their cheese. Even if you do stuff that is deemed unpopular, or you just cannot divulge sensitive information, your PR machinery should be at least appeasing the population as best as it can.
This is democracy at work.
In plenty other countries (and well developed ones that we look up to), these men would have disappeared long time, whether they guilty or innocent.

Remember, as of now, these 14 men are being held for questioning. Whether the equivalent Miranda warning has been read to them yet, we don't know, given the present conditions that they are being held under.

The key questions now become:
1) Did the Govt fabricate everything about this plot?
2) If yes, was it exclusively for political sympathy or a reason to extend the SOE (in which case what is the ultimate aim of the SOE?)
3) If no, should they have done this discretely to avoid any accusations of political points? I guarantee this would have caused more problems, then they would have been rightfully accused of "secret state behaviour infringing on citizen's rights"

Trini politics like a soap opera yes. Hadda love it.

PS Elan - yep, as Feliz mentioned, its the Al Qaeda Guyanaese guy in Trinidad, as well as the other people involved in the JFK bombing plot.

Offline Flex

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Re: ASSASSINATION PLOT THREAD
« Reply #48 on: December 03, 2011, 03:18:11 AM »
Rowley: PM misled T&T on death plot
‘It’s misconduct in public office’
By Richard Lord (Guardian).

 
Opposition Leader Dr Keith Rowley Opposition Leader Dr Keith Rowley said yesterday no plot was established to assassinate Prime Minister Kamla Persad-Bissessar and three members of her Cabinet. He said so at a news briefing at the Opposition caucus room at the Waterfront Complex, Wrightson Road, Port-of- Spain.

He said the “so-called plot” was used to justify the state of emergency. “The Prime Minister has, in a very reckless manner, misled this country on November 24,” Rowley stressed. He quoted a document, called “The evaluation of the plot by the country’s security services”. It was dated November 23.

It read:
(1). The general assessment of this information (alleged plot) is that it seems to be an amalgamation of several pieces of information, using historic information on individuals of known ill-repute to validate the claim of a future act and embellished by the author’s liberal use of opinions rather than facts;
(2). the chronological sequence of events is inconsistent;
(3). it is quite possible that he (the source who leaked the plot) is speculating as to what he is seeing in an attempt to make sense of it;
(4). due to a lack of understanding by the source, there seems to be an attempt to use the term (certain term used which suggests that these persons are extremists); and
(5). there is no information identifying the leaders of the two groups (supposed to be the extremists groups), or whether the persons involved are known to each other. Attempts to identify a common link, possible through the Imams of the community to which they belonged, proved futile.

Rowley then said: “The information surrounding this so-called plot has been discredited by the (police) analyst in the evaluation, as of November 23.” He said despite that information Prime Minister Kamla Persad-Bissessar, who is the chairman of the National Security Council, “creates the hysteria that we have been through, mobilise the forces, makes political statements, tell the country we can’t tell you anything because it is secret.” He said: “So now we know for a fact no plot was determined on November 24.”

He said the Opposition had concerns that those detained were held “under criminal conduct as to the plot to commit murder but they are held under existing powers of the state of emergency.”

He said that when the emergency powers expire on Monday when the state of emergency expires “those persons (detained) will have to walk.” He said however those people were “now in serious jeopardy” because the political directorate needed evidence to keep them incarcerated or charged to keep it from serious allegations of misconduct in public office.
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Re: ASSASSINATION PLOT THREAD
« Reply #49 on: December 03, 2011, 08:52:13 AM »
DPP: I have not been consulted
Alleged plot to kill PM
By Akile Simon

DIRECTOR of Public Prosecutions Roger Gaspard yesterday said he has not yet been consulted by the police in connection with an alleged plot to destabilise the country and assassinate Prime Minister Kamla Persad-Bissessar and three Government Ministers.

An ex-US soldier is among 16 men who were served detention notices which were signed by National Security Minister Brig John Sandy earlier this week. They are in custody at the Remand Yard Facility of the Golden Grove Prison, Arouca. Two other men — one an alleged Laventille gang leader and the other the son of a Freeport businessman—remain in custody.

Some detainees are being held in connection with their alleged involvement in a plot to destabilise the country and cause major panic while some are held for allegedly conspiring to assassinate Persad-Bissessar and Attorney General Anand Ramlogan, Minister of Housing and the Environment Dr Roodal Moonilal and Minister of Local Government, Chandresh Sharma.

Contacted on whether he or his Office has been in contact with the police with their probe, Gaspard said no.

"Sir, to date, the police have not contacted me in relation to the prospect of them bringing criminal charges in that matter," Gaspard said in the text message in which he responded.

It is the norm in high profile matters for the police to consult the DPP during and sometimes after their investigations to ensure that the intended criminal prosecutions could stand up in court.

However, the police could and in the past have gone ahead and laid charges in high profile matters without consulting the DPP but when the matters go before the court the file still has to be sent to the DPP's office for review so a State attorney could be appointed to prosecute the case.

This was evident with the recent cases filed under the Anti-Gang legislation where the police went ahead and charged 243 alleged gang members without consulting the DPP.

This resulted in the DPP offering no evidence and discontinuing all the cases before the courts.

Meanwhile, police probing the incident said they had completed their investigations and were reviewing all the statements.

Yesterday, officers were expected to go to the Remand Yard facility of the Golden Grove, in Arouca to interview one of the suspects a second time.

No indication has been given on whether they intend to approach Gaspard before the State of Emergency expires on Monday.

However, a source close to the investigation said no, when questioned on the likelihood of criminal charges being laid against the accused.

The State of Emergency ends on Monday and the police will either have to lay charges against the detainees or release them, if the Government does not extend it.

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Re: ASSASSINATION PLOT THREAD
« Reply #50 on: December 03, 2011, 09:41:33 AM »
DPP: I have not been consulted
Alleged plot to kill PM
By Akile Simon

DIRECTOR of Public Prosecutions Roger Gaspard yesterday said he has not yet been consulted by the police in connection with an alleged plot to destabilise the country and assassinate Prime Minister Kamla Persad-Bissessar and three Government Ministers.

An ex-US soldier is among 16 men who were served detention notices which were signed by National Security Minister Brig John Sandy earlier this week. They are in custody at the Remand Yard Facility of the Golden Grove Prison, Arouca. Two other men — one an alleged Laventille gang leader and the other the son of a Freeport businessman—remain in custody.

Some detainees are being held in connection with their alleged involvement in a plot to destabilise the country and cause major panic while some are held for allegedly conspiring to assassinate Persad-Bissessar and Attorney General Anand Ramlogan, Minister of Housing and the Environment Dr Roodal Moonilal and Minister of Local Government, Chandresh Sharma.

Contacted on whether he or his Office has been in contact with the police with their probe, Gaspard said no.

"Sir, to date, the police have not contacted me in relation to the prospect of them bringing criminal charges in that matter," Gaspard said in the text message in which he responded.

It is the norm in high profile matters for the police to consult the DPP during and sometimes after their investigations to ensure that the intended criminal prosecutions could stand up in court.

However, the police could and in the past have gone ahead and laid charges in high profile matters without consulting the DPP but when the matters go before the court the file still has to be sent to the DPP's office for review so a State attorney could be appointed to prosecute the case.

This was evident with the recent cases filed under the Anti-Gang legislation where the police went ahead and charged 243 alleged gang members without consulting the DPP.

This resulted in the DPP offering no evidence and discontinuing all the cases before the courts.

Meanwhile, police probing the incident said they had completed their investigations  :-\ and were reviewing all the statements.

Yesterday, officers were expected to go to the Remand Yard facility of the Golden Grove, in Arouca to interview one of the suspects a second time.   ???

No indication has been given on whether they intend to approach Gaspard before the State of Emergency expires on Monday.

However, a source close to the investigation said no, when questioned on the likelihood of criminal charges being laid against the accused.

The State of Emergency ends on Monday and the police will either have to lay charges against the detainees or release them, if the Government does not extend it.


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Offline MEP

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Re: ASSASSINATION PLOT THREAD
« Reply #51 on: December 03, 2011, 12:34:24 PM »
In most other countries in the world, if something like this goes down, the press might not even hear about it.
I know for a fact here in the US, if you pick up your cell phone and call ANYONE ELSE and say certain specific words that are connected to terrorism, the US presidency, etc etc in one conversation, I can guarantee you a big black van will pull up outside your house, storm your place and detain you...
You will be held under special US legislature and your family won't even know what happen to you.
Your entire life will be surgically examined, every person you communicated with in the last few months will be checked out, and even if there is a sniff of something, you might be shipped off to God knows where, where the best of the best of the CIA/FBI/Mossad will have fun with you.

The point I am making is that any threat, whether its alleged or just a hint, must be investigated fully, because of the potential symbolic risk. We very lucky in T&T, cause we so small, and everbody know everybody, its very hard for a Govt to secretly round up people...

Its like now how you can't even say certain phrases while in the airport in the US, you will be reported and detained.

When the SOE started, we began to hear reports of gangsters being upset and were promising retaliation when they got out.
Add that to the picture they found of Kamla in Robocop's house, the large cache of arms in Valsayn last year, the radical Islamic link, and you have more than enough to at least warrant detailed investigation.

I am sure we the public are only privy to about 30% of all that is going on, its no secret the CIA has full time operations in Trinidad, hell its been even in the news that the Govt working together with them.

Now whether the threat is really as serious as it is being made out to be, the Govt has a duty to inform the population once (if) these men are charged by Monday. I will not be surprised if they are released, it seems we have some incompetent people in law enforcement, but with external help it may work.

I for one do not listen to any reports of family who say their people not involved in this, or its political in nature - most of the 9/11 suicide bombers' family spoke of how gentle and loving their people were.

I slightly skeptical on this whole issue, but I giving the Govt till Monday to inform us.

All the bad talk they badtalk the previous administration for bringing in all that Israeli spy equipment, its that same thing they using now for these threats...

Trinidad has had 2 uprisings in its past, we have been home to radical terrorists who threaten the western world, we have had attempts on a president's life, a former attorney general murdered. Whether we like it or not, there are things afoot in sweet T&T that we would not like to believe is reality.

Any govt of the day has the duty, right and hopefully the common sense to investigate these things properly, exactly as Robocop said in the press.
I remember Panday being threatened, I remember Manning as well, but both those issues quickly disappeared. Will this be any different?
 
We need some answers come Monday when either they are charged or released.



Actually no....once those codes words are triggered then a federal warrant to issue a wiretap would be requested...yes they can eavesdrop without one ...the wiretap would then be used to build a case against the person and what is subsequently done is that a matrix of all the calls incoming and outgoing is created to see what links there may be. It is not as easy as you state otherwise every republican in the south would be arrested for their hatred of President Obama.
The thing is that Federal attorneys operate within the scope of the law and they build their case off of that ...so that when a warrant is issued it states why and on what charges they are being served.
 However, what is interesting is that in TnT they are using the emergency powers of the SOE to detain people and then build a case. Logic would dictate that if these people were indeed plotting  against the Gov't then wouldn't the Ministry of National Security be the one who would build the case against them?  But given the rum shop type of governance we've been seeing in T&T it is not surprising that Martin Joseph, who should be front and center on this issue, has been unusually silent.

Offline Jah Gol

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Re: ASSASSINATION PLOT THREAD
« Reply #52 on: December 03, 2011, 07:07:26 PM »
I don't know where Rowley get that 'report'' and how credible it is but the words of the DPP are instructive.All politics aside ,KPB right in her head ?

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Re: ASSASSINATION PLOT THREAD
« Reply #53 on: December 04, 2011, 02:49:48 AM »
Where is the shake your head in dismay button?
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Offline lefty

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Re: ASSASSINATION PLOT THREAD
« Reply #54 on: December 04, 2011, 06:58:22 AM »
why dem cyar just buckle down jus govern d muddacuunt country boy, why d games is not Jack self did bring ah crime expert here..............whenever............ try to come up wit an effective crime plan nah............d SOE is not ah plan.......lawd have mercy..............I feel I woulda even take ah Panday Govt over this shit
I pity the fool....

Offline Bourbon

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Re: ASSASSINATION PLOT THREAD
« Reply #55 on: December 04, 2011, 01:06:53 PM »
Wait wait wait wait wait wait WAIT!

In today's express:

http://www.trinidadexpress.com/news/No_charges_yet-134975433.html

To quote from the article:
Quote
The security evaluation of the intelligence report which detailed the alleged assassination plot against the Prime Minister and other members of the Cabinet found the information to be highly speculative and poured cold water over the conclusion arrived at that there was a credible security threat.

The security evaluation, received by the Sunday Express, documented on November 23, stated the "chronological sequence of events was inconsistent".

It noted, for example, that if the stated purpose of the assassination was to show the Government that the State of Emergency called on August 21 was a dismal failure, then the conspirators would have had to have known since January 2011 (when they allegedly imported the arms and ammunition) that the Prime Minister planned to call a State of Emergency in August.

"The stated purpose of the assassination being to show the Government that the State of Emergency called on the 21st August was a dismal failure. If this be true, then it can be inferred that they had prior knowledge that the Prime Minister would have called a State of Emergency prior to 21st August, 2011, and it would have failed, so they imported arms and ammunition in January, 2011," the document stated.

The document said the assertion that the firearms and ammunition for the plot were brought by one person (named) and that the guns may have been supplied by another alleged conspirator, through the assistance of another alleged conspirator, "shows the informant use of persons of ill-repute to validate his alleged plot without linking anyone in particular to each other".

The evaluation document noted that no leaders were identified in the plot, and no linkage was established between the two groups who were supposed to be acting in concert.

Then yuh read this:

http://www.trinidadexpress.com/news/Police_still_to_decide_on_charges-134975398.html

Quote
Sources close to the investigation told the Sunday Express that up to late yesterday there wasn't sufficient evidence to lay charges against the detainees.

The Government has before tomorrow at midnight to extend the SoE which could be done by having a special sitting of Parliament.

It has been speculated that the SoE may be extended because of the alleged assassination plot.

Yesterday, Deputy Commissioner of Police Mervyn Richardson said the police will approach Director of Public Prosecutions Roger Gasprad for advice in the investigations into an alleged asssaination plot. Richardson's comments came one day after Gaspard, responding to a question from the Express, said he had not been consulted by the police in the matter. Contacted on whether the police intend to approach Gaspard on the matter, Richardson said yes.

"We must do that. That is a matter of course, so to answer your question, yes, we will approach the DPP but I can't tell you when," Richardson said.

Questioned further on why the police didn't approach Gaspard during the course of their investigations for advice, as is the norm with high profile matters, Richardson said, "We are working together as a team."

Asked for clarity on the persons he was referring to as "we" he said, "The police and everybody are working as a team."



DEN...to ice the cake...yuh read THIS:

http://www.guardian.co.tt/news/2011/12/04/no-charges-against-detainees-pm-s-assassination-plot

Quote
Contacted yesterday, former attorney general Ramesh Lawrence Maharaj said statements and confessions taken from detainees held by the detention orders are not admissible. “Even if they charge these people they would have to be charged under the criminal law and it would seem any prosecution would be an abuse of process because you cannot use a SoE and a detention order to get evidence to prosecute someone under the ordinary criminal law. During a detention period any statement or confession that is allegedly given would not be admissible,” the former attorney general said.


SO WHA DE MOROCOY REALLY GOING ON HERE?
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Offline Jah Gol

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Re: ASSASSINATION PLOT THREAD
« Reply #56 on: December 04, 2011, 06:12:51 PM »
So Bourbon , I'm not an expert but lemme ask a question,  I just saying eh. If there was a plot and the authorities conducted investigations without the PM and Government spooking the whole national security infrastructure and a couple days after making a public statement on the basis a preliminary report of a possible threat then men could have actually been charged and who knows even convicted.

smh

Every last of those guys going home.

Offline Bourbon

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Re: ASSASSINATION PLOT THREAD
« Reply #57 on: December 04, 2011, 06:28:56 PM »
So Bourbon , I'm not an expert but lemme ask a question,  I just saying eh. If there was a plot and the authorities conducted investigations without the PM and Government spooking the whole national security infrastructure and a couple days after making a public statement on the basis a preliminary report of a possible threat then men could have actually been charged and who knows even convicted.

smh

Every last of those guys going home.

Not exactly.

The report was dated November 23rd. The country became aware of the plot about the 23rd as well right? So even before the announcement...investigations were already underway..in fact sufficiently so to warrant a report being issued.

So the question is.....why or who leaked the plot when by the time of the leak a report already possibly existed stating there was no plot?
Secondly...the PM as i recall didnt make the announcement...the media was tipped off...and the rumour spread like wildfire...and then there was a government statement. (PLEASE CORRECT ME IF I AM WRONG). But....this "report" shoulda been in the hands of the national security council...or the PM herself.....so..subsequent to the rumour being created....it could have been cut off just like that by the PM (assuming that she saw the report.)

Then again....the PM herself said "the alleged plot". So by that time....she possibly KNEW that there was no credible plot..but issued no statement saying that.

Yet....all those detentions were done...under the premise that they were in connection to the plot....random men.......not detained on credible evidence...but under SOE detention orders. Even if they had evidence....the evidence woulda be inadmissable according to Ramesh Lawrence Maharaj.



Or maybe I dreamed this entire thing.
« Last Edit: December 04, 2011, 06:38:56 PM by Bourbon »
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Re: ASSASSINATION PLOT THREAD
« Reply #58 on: December 04, 2011, 07:18:45 PM »
Decision on detained 16 today: DPP: I was not consulted
Published: Mon, 2011-12-05 18:54
Geisha Kowlessar
 
Rnand Ramlogan Attorney General Anand Ramlogan says  the law must take its course and if there is no evidence against the 16 detainees, then they must be set free. Saying that the law must be respected at all times, Ramlogan added: “The rule of law must be respected at any and all costs and Government is committed to the rule of law. “If there is insufficient evidence to justify the laying of charges, then the detainees must be set free in accordance to law,” he said in an interview yesterday. The Attorney General also made it clear that the laying of charges was a matter for the police in consultation with the Director of Public Prosecutions (DPP).

Asked what charges, if any, were expected to be laid on the detainees, Ramlogan said he was not advised whether or not charges would be laid. “But I am not surprised because this is not a matter that involves the executive arm of the State,” he said. “It is a matter exclusively for the police and for the DPP who would advise if and when consulted.” Up to late yesterday afternoon, the State did not approach DPP Roger Gaspard to seek advice whether or not charges should be laid against 16 detainees. Contacted yesterday, Gaspard said he was in office up until 7 pm and had no consultation with any one. “Nobody has sought my advice in relation to bringing any criminal charges,” he said.

“I’m in my office doing my normal work and I have not been consulted on this matter...No one has opted to have an audience with me,” Gaspard said. But a senior lawyer, who asked not to be identified, said given the nature of the allegations, it would have been “obviously appropriate” for the police to maintain a close connection with the office of the DPP and to seek advice regarding what nature of charges could be laid. The attorney said investigators, depending on what charges they were pursuing, were not duty-bound to consult the DPP and could go ahead and lay the charges. On the other hand, however, the DPP must give the directive to lay certain charges which would include perjury, sedition and charges relating under the Prevention of Corruption Act,” the attorney explained.

“These charges can only be sanctioned by the DPP,” the lawyer added. Gaspard, however, reiterated that in the case of special prosecutors, his office was the sole authority to prosecute criminal matters. He said in the event that a special prosecutor had to be appointed outside the office of the DPP any matter, he (the DPP) was the sole person to grant a fiat to that particular attorney or attorneys to prosecute. Attorney representing Khalil Karamath, Senior Counsel Pamela Elder, in an interview yesterday, said the State had found itself in a difficult position. She said the State went ahead and served orders which indicated that the 16 were dangerous people who were likely to endanger the lives of the public.

“So if these are indeed dangerous people, how would the public be protected on the expiration of the state of emergency?” Elder said. She added that after detention orders were initially served on the 16, they were then served with particulars which were subsequently served on Friday. Detention orders were slapped on the 16 men for allegedly being involved in a plot to assassinate Prime Minister Kamla Persad-Bissessar and three senior Government ministers. Others were identified as allegedly being behind a plot to destabilise Trinidad and Tobago and cause major panic. The orders were made by the National Security Minister Brigadier John Sandy, in accordance with paragraph two of the second schedule to the Emergency Powers Regulations, 2011.

The Plot

Particulars for detention order  obtained by The Guardian regarding  plot to destabilise Trinidad and Tobago and cause major panic:

On October 28, 2011, an officer of the Special Branch Unit of the Trinidad and Tobago Police Service received credible information from a confidential informant that there was being planned, a plot to destabilise Trinidad and Tobago and cause major panic and that the detainee was the mastermind behind the plot. The information from the said confidential informant was that the detainee was the leader of a extremist Islamic group which meets at Chaguanas and that the detainee regularly espouses extremist and radical Islamic beliefs at  these masjids.

The said confidential informant also said that the detainee had recruited members of his religious group to carry out the detainee’s plan to destabilise Trinidad and Tobago. On September 18, 2011, three men all believed to be members of the detainee’s radical Islamic group were arrested at Wallerfield, after a period of surveillance conducted by members of the Criminal Intelligence Unit (CIU). Upon the arrest of certain people the following items were seized by the police:
• One Glock 17 pistol
• 30 round of 0.40 mm ammunition
• 24 rounds of 9 mm ammunition
• 10 rounds of 9 mm ammunition
• 6 firearm magazines
• 1 rifle firearm with scope
• 2 bulletproof vests
• 2 Police Velcro patches
• 1 blue sweater resembling that used by members of the Guard and Emergency Branch
• Trinidad and Tobago Defence Force camouflage jacket and pants
• 2 stolen vehicles.
• 1 computer on which was stored anti-terrorist and weapon training material originating from the United States’ Federal Bureau of Investigations and Special Air Services

Information received from the said confidential source was that a detainee was responsible for purchasing ammunition for the said plot. In 2010, the detainee was arrested and charged with possession of more than 1,000 rounds of ammunition after said ammunition was found at his home along with a number of high-powered rifles, including AK47 assault rifles and a large quantity of narcotics. Intelligence received has linked the detainee to the importation of sophisticated weapons that were capable of long range assassination and together a central businessman whose home was searched and a large cache of high powered rifles were recently found, is suspected in the importation of such weapons.

If...
chief justice ivor archie say so
ex-chief justice sharma say so
law assoc pres martin daly say so
transpareny institute say so
Ken Gordon say so
jones p say so....then is so!!!

Offline Jah Gol

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Re: ASSASSINATION PLOT THREAD
« Reply #59 on: December 04, 2011, 07:52:38 PM »
So how the report get out?

 

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