March 28, 2024, 03:03:23 AM

Author Topic: Plastic pitch-Soccergrass-turf field. here it comes  (Read 3974 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Deeks

  • Hero Warrior
  • *****
  • Posts: 18631
    • View Profile
Plastic pitch-Soccergrass-turf field. here it comes
« on: December 01, 2011, 05:52:12 PM »
From BBC

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-15965082

Purists may shudder, and groundsmen may lose their jobs, but plastic football pitches are growing in popularity in Brazil and Argentina.

Many of the biggest clubs in both countries now train on artificial turf, including Boca Juniors and River Plate in Argentina, and Corinthians and Sao Paulo in Brazil.

While none of the big teams have yet to replace the natural grass in their actual stadiums, the makers of plastic pitches in both countries are quietly confident that this will happen in the future.

At the Soccerex business of football convention in Rio de Janeiro, Brazil's largest manufacturer of artificial turf, Soccer Grass, is out in force.

Continue reading the main story

Start Quote
In every regard it performs as well as natural grass - playability, comfort for the players, contact with the players”
End Quote
Juan Pablo Pena
 
Forbex
 At its glitzy exhibition stand, which is naturally resplendent with the lush green of its product on the floor, video screens show Brazilian football greats Zico, Paulo Sergio and Ronaldinho talking about how much they love Soccer Grass.

Alessandro Oliveira, Soccer Grass director, is also proud to say that for the past two years its pitches have even been installed at the training centre of the Brazilian national team.

Meanwhile, at the other end of the exhibition hall, Soccer Grass's main Argentinian rival, Forbex, is also keen to talk about its successes.

Artificial turf is now big news - and big business - in Brazil and Argentina.

England ban

Such a development will likely horrify the average football fan in the UK, especially those old enough to remember the "green carpets" installed at four English clubs in the 1980s - QPR, Luton, Preston and Oldham.

These were eventually banned by the Football Association in 1988 after players had long complained that the artificial turf was too hard a surface, and increased the likelihood of injuries.

Meanwhile, supporters moaned that the ball bounced excessively and the surfaces did little to encourage an attractive passing game.

Yet world football's governing body Fifa has always maintained a more open mind, and in recent years has again given artificial turf its support, as long as it meets its set standards.

As a result, international matches can be played on plastic pitches, with Costa Rica and Russia being two countries to do so.

 Alessandro Oliveira is a director of Brazil's largest manufacturer of artificial turf, Soccer Grass Closer to home, European governing body Uefa allows artificial turf to be used for Champions League matches except the final. As Tottenham Hotspur experienced when they played away at Swiss side Young Boys in 2010.

And in England, two lower league teams - Wycombe Wanderers and Accrington Stanley - both recently said they would like to install plastic pitches in the future to cut costs and increase their revenues.

'Softer'

Mr Oliveira of Soccer Grass says artificial turf has returned to popularity because its standard has been transformed over the past decade.

"The product today is a world apart from the past," he says. "The plastic fibres are longer and softer, and as importantly, the underlay is made of rubber granules, so it is as soft to play on as a natural grass surface, and the ball moves and bounces in the same way.

"It is the same quality as natural grass.

Juan Pablo Pena, a director of Forbex, says that artificial turf no longer burns when players slide across it.

"In every regard it performs as well as natural grass - playability, comfort for the players, contact with the players.

"And unlike in the past, players can wear boots with studs."

Costing about $600,000 (£380,000) to install, Mr Pena says the commercial benefits of artificial turf are obvious and long-lasting.

"Firstly, it requires much less maintenance than natural grass," he says. "Perhaps most importantly, you don't have to water it, which can save football clubs a fortune, particularly those in hot countries.

"Yes, you do need to do some maintenance with plastic pitches - you need to brush them from time to time - but with a lifespan of eight to nine years, you save a fortune. And clubs can boost their revenues, because plastic pitches can be used 24 hours a day.

"The only problem we have is persuading teams to spend the initial $600,000."

'Players' support'

Yet will Argentinian and Brazilian football fans ever accept watching their beloved club sides - or even national teams - play on plastic?

 Brazil, which will host the 2014 World Cup, already train on artificial grass Mr Oliveira says: "I think it is a possibility, because the clubs want their pitches to look as green and perfect as possible, and we provide that.

"Plus, the players are already very happy with our pitches, because they train on them week in, week out."

Mr Pena agrees. "The players are on side, now it is just a question of persuading the fans."

Santiago Tezanos Pinto, a spokesman for Argentinian side Boca Juniors, also believes it could ultimately happen.

"The club is always aware that we need to keep up with what is happening on the market," he says.

"Football has a lot of tradition, and is not into change, but it could happen in the future. If plastic pitches get installed at stadiums in Argentina, I think teams would have to do so as one."

Offline Football supporter

  • Hero Warrior
  • *****
  • Posts: 5209
    • View Profile
Re: Plastic pitch-Soccergrass-turf field. here it comes
« Reply #1 on: December 01, 2011, 10:19:33 PM »
This surface is very good and ideal for countries such as T&T. North East investigated various surfaces for their proposed stadium and the best turned out to be a U.S. product. The main advantage is that the elements don't effect it in the same way natural turf suffers from excessive rain and dry seasons. These climatical contrasts combined with excessive use makes turf financially redundant. Anil Roberts & Sangre Grande Regional Corporation vowed to spend $1 million to create a professional playing surface in Grande. However, the ground would need to be open to the community. While N.E.S. understood the need for community access, without supervision, the surface would be mashed up within weeks. Artificial turf, while more expensive to install, has lower maintenence costs and can be used 24/7 in all weathers.

Obviously, the puritans would prefer real turf, but as a cost effective soloution, artificial wins hands down. 

Offline KND2

  • Hero Warrior
  • *****
  • Posts: 1983
    • View Profile
Re: Plastic pitch-Soccergrass-turf field. here it comes
« Reply #2 on: December 02, 2011, 08:01:43 AM »
it is still not as good as grass, but it is worth the investment. 5 years ago Wim said tnt needed to install some artificial turfs to promote the game.

But at the end of the day investment is needed both in grass pitches and turf pitches.

The biggest issue with TnT pitches is drainage not so much water.

if you build the grounds properly either grass or plastic and use it properly maintanance will not be a problem. but this is not the case.


Offline Tenorsaw

  • Hero Warrior
  • *****
  • Posts: 3247
  • YNWA
    • View Profile
Re: Plastic pitch-Soccergrass-turf field. here it comes
« Reply #3 on: December 02, 2011, 10:03:38 AM »
it is still not as good as grass, but it is worth the investment. 5 years ago Wim said tnt needed to install some artificial turfs to promote the game.

But at the end of the day investment is needed both in grass pitches and turf pitches.

The biggest issue with TnT pitches is drainage not so much water.if you build the grounds properly either grass or plastic and use it properly maintanance will not be a problem. but this is not the case.



Don't quite agree with you here.  The issue is that we do not treat turf upkeep as a science.  We believe that because we have a climate that is conducive to the year-round survival of the grass, that we don't need to repair the pitches after matches, water them regularly, etc.  We need to promote the importance of having good groundstaff.  They offer degrees on turf science at some U.S. universities - that is how serious it is.  Yet, we continue to use guess work or do nothing at all with our playing surfaces in the stadia back home.

Offline Trini

  • Hero Warrior
  • *****
  • Posts: 1631
    • View Profile
Re: Plastic pitch-Soccergrass-turf field. here it comes
« Reply #4 on: December 02, 2011, 10:07:41 AM »
No public ground with real grass will ever be top quality, cause in order to maintain a good standard, the pitch need time to breathe and recover. Home, man and goat does run on savannah, normel.

And when no sports or goat feeding going on, man does park they car on it to go to some fete nearby.

You add the fact that Trinidad is very rainfall-prone, make the problem 10 time worse.

In order to maintain good grounds in T&T, you hadda fence it off and rel take care of it, like the UWI cricket field.

Turf is the real deal, but I think mainly for training. I never play on turf till i come to the US, it is perfect for football on the ground. It might just be me and my limited technique, but I always found chipping and getting height on the ball was much more difficult on turf than grass, so that was my one big drawback. The ball does also move rel fast too on the ground. Them NFL players does also have chronic "turf-toe" issues which can be very serious.

I with the English FA on this one, I hope we never have a turf pitch for our main games.

T&T not fit enough to play on turf. We need grass, and soak it before every single game, so man natural small-goal-in-the-rain skills could be used to an advantage.

Leave turf for lacrosse and American Football.

Offline Coop's

  • Hero Warrior
  • *****
  • Posts: 4066
    • View Profile
Re: Plastic pitch-Soccergrass-turf field. here it comes
« Reply #5 on: December 02, 2011, 10:38:39 AM »
it is still not as good as grass, but it is worth the investment. 5 years ago Wim said tnt needed to install some artificial turfs to promote the game.

But at the end of the day investment is needed both in grass pitches and turf pitches.

The biggest issue with TnT pitches is drainage not so much water.if you build the grounds properly either grass or plastic and use it properly maintanance will not be a problem. but this is not the case.



Don't quite agree with you here.  The issue is that we do not treat turf upkeep as a science.  We believe that because we have a climate that is conducive to the year-round survival of the grass, that we don't need to repair the pitches after matches, water them regularly, etc.  We need to promote the importance of having good groundstaff.  They offer degrees on turf science at some U.S. universities - that is how serious it is.  Yet, we continue to use guess work or do nothing at all with our playing surfaces in the stadia back home.
     Just my two cents,i agree with both you guys on your views and ideas concerning our fields in T&T,i just think that if good sense prevails we can have quality fields for Football,our biggest problem is the useage of fields,all our fields are public and community fields,these fields don't get a break for mentainance and seeding,rain or sun games have to be played,fete matches,small goal and party are the biggest deterant to those fields,once you say public, grass/turf it's all over. .
     Fields out here(US) is big business,you could know what is controled by clubs/schools and what is public or just a Park,number one you have to pay for usage or to get a permit,it costs to use these facilities,these places make a lot of money,you can't use them at any time they are controled by clubs or Parks and Rec,they are fenced,certain times of the year they are shut down for maintenance,they pay a lot of attention to weather conditions they are very quick to cancel games once rain falls.
         

Offline Coop's

  • Hero Warrior
  • *****
  • Posts: 4066
    • View Profile
Re: Plastic pitch-Soccergrass-turf field. here it comes
« Reply #6 on: December 02, 2011, 10:43:29 AM »
 :thumbsup: :thumbsup: You could not have said it better,i hate turf and for a lot of your reasons.

Offline Daft Trini

  • Hero Warrior
  • *****
  • Posts: 3822
    • View Profile
Re: Plastic pitch-Soccergrass-turf field. here it comes
« Reply #7 on: December 02, 2011, 12:52:55 PM »
Played on a plastic pitch during my last 2 years of university, had hernia trouble after every game.

Offline Tenorsaw

  • Hero Warrior
  • *****
  • Posts: 3247
  • YNWA
    • View Profile
Re: Plastic pitch-Soccergrass-turf field. here it comes
« Reply #8 on: December 02, 2011, 01:32:18 PM »
The surface has improved considerably.  I've played on some where I could goalkeep in short sleeves, because it was so padded.  The blades were like real grass, and it was real cushiony.  Then, you have the cheap surfaces that are being laid down by NYC Parks & Rec that is just not up to standard.  You get what you pay for.  It's much better than the commercial carpet that was passed off as turf field in the 80s and 90s.

Offline #4

  • Sr. Warrior
  • ****
  • Posts: 399
    • View Profile
    • #YGBfiles: The Young, Gifted, and Black Files
Re: Plastic pitch-Soccergrass-turf field. here it comes
« Reply #9 on: December 02, 2011, 02:56:44 PM »
The surface has improved considerably.  I've played on some where I could goalkeep in short sleeves, because it was so padded.  The blades were like real grass, and it was real cushiony.  Then, you have the cheap surfaces that are being laid down by NYC Parks & Rec that is just not up to standard.  You get what you pay for.  It's much better than the commercial carpet that was passed off as turf field in the 80s and 90s.

True, fieldturf (the artificial turf mentioned here) today is much better than the astroturf of yesteryear. The problem is that it's not truly maintenance-free, as this article seems to purport. If fieldturf is not properly maintained (i.e. properly patched, etc.) and then replaced at the end of its useable lifespan, and if the rubber pellets that they spray over the turf aren't occasionally replenished, then those fields are just as hard and unsafe as the old astroturf. There was a specific artificial pitch here in Miami that wasn't properly maintained; I ended up breaking my arm there as a result.

There are three disadvantages to this kind of artificial pitches that haven't been mentioned yet-
A. Those tiny recycled rubber pellets that are used to pad the turf get stuck in your shoes and can make running extremely uncomfortable.

B. When I broke my arm on the turf field, my surgeon told me that fractures are 40% more likely to happen on turf fields than grass; even the "new" turf described here. Just something to consider.

C. Fieldturf gets VERY hot in the summer, especially if directly exposed to sunlight. An official university study said that turf can get hotter than 170 degrees Fahrenheit (77 C)  :pissedoff: when exposed to sunlight, which is way over the maximum recommended playing field temperature of 120 Fahrenheit (48 C) for athletes. If I had young children, I would definitely have second thoughts about sending them to train or play on a field that hot; you might as well send your kids to play in a sauna.

Here's the funny part... There were fieldturf fields where I used to train, and they would spray water on the fields every 20-30 minutes to keep them from overheating during the summer. It just seemed ironic that they would go through the trouble of installing artificial turf only to be watering it more than grass.
« Last Edit: December 02, 2011, 03:01:39 PM by #4 »

Offline Coop's

  • Hero Warrior
  • *****
  • Posts: 4066
    • View Profile
Re: Plastic pitch-Soccergrass-turf field. here it comes
« Reply #10 on: December 02, 2011, 04:55:58 PM »
#4,we are truly fortunate to have peeps like you to educate us on this type of field,i've seen it,played on it but never thought that much of it,all i know is i don't like to play on it.
I guess with this kind of info fields like that will not be suited for T&T,it will not even be cost effective.I must say though it's the best surface for Indoor Soccer,the Indoor facilities that have them do good business because you can play any day/time without any obstruction,they lasts years because you don't have to worry about the concerns you posted.
 Good post any how. :beermug:

Offline #4

  • Sr. Warrior
  • ****
  • Posts: 399
    • View Profile
    • #YGBfiles: The Young, Gifted, and Black Files
Re: Plastic pitch-Soccergrass-turf field. here it comes
« Reply #11 on: December 02, 2011, 05:35:10 PM »
#4,we are truly fortunate to have peeps like you to educate us on this type of field,i've seen it,played on it but never thought that much of it,all i know is i don't like to play on it.
I guess with this kind of info fields like that will not be suited for T&T,it will not even be cost effective.I must say though it's the best surface for Indoor Soccer,the Indoor facilities that have them do good business because you can play any day/time without any obstruction,they lasts years because you don't have to worry about the concerns you posted.
 Good post any how. :beermug:

Coops: I must mention that the pitches that I spoke about were in Miami, Texas, and Atlanta; three very hot places. In T&T, there's more consistent cloud cover and more days with rain than any of these places, so the "heat sink" issue may not be as great of a problem (as a side note: the overheating issue occurs because the black rubber pellets on the field absorb and retain heat extremely well). Perhaps someone should do a study on the Marvin Lee Stadium to see how it fares during the day prior to moving on with building other plastic pitches in T&T.

Offline Deeks

  • Hero Warrior
  • *****
  • Posts: 18631
    • View Profile
Re: Plastic pitch-Soccergrass-turf field. here it comes
« Reply #12 on: December 02, 2011, 05:48:13 PM »
I did not like the old astro turf. Even though I like the new ones, I still have some issues with them. You all mentioned the rubber pellets that is sprayed on the field for cushion and give the ball the extra bounce. I read an article which reported that the verdict is still out on the long term effect of the pellets somehow being inhaled and entering the body. Then the issues of very hot days in summer. Yes, I would try and limit kids play on the field between 11;00am and about 4;00 - 5;00pm. Teenagers and adults can deal with it. Hydrate yourself and/or play shorter time games(60 mins).

For inner cities, these fields are "essential". Unlike suburbia, they have limited spaces. Developers grab all the open spaces for condos, buisness and strip malls. In DC, almost all the high schools have turf field. Even the areas in MD and VA that are now becoming condensed are introducing it. These fields do need maintenance. (the ocasional piece of glass, nails,needles).

In an ideal world, TT should have some of the best grass playing surfaces. I luv meh country, but we not ideal. People talk about seeding and watering fields. Allyuh joking. If you tell Trini about seeding and watering, the first thing come to mind is sex. Honestly fellas, do you see the 5 stadia, each having a spinkiler system and getting constant watering, especially in dry season when it is really needed. When we have we "drought" home, you think WASA go allow the stadia authorities to turn on sprinkler system while it have bush fires. When the water infrastructure is improved then that can happen.

I feel they should put turf field in either Geo V park or the QPS, Aranguez, the velodrome in Arima, One in Central, one in Sando and in Point Palo Seco. And also in Tobago.

Look, Chivas in Mexico gone turf. They are going to use it for all kind of events to make money to pay back the loan. Jack seem to be the smartest one off all. He install one on his stadium.
« Last Edit: December 02, 2011, 05:52:28 PM by Deeks »

Offline 100% Barataria

  • aka Nachilus
  • Hero Warrior
  • *****
  • Posts: 5014
    • View Profile
Re: Plastic pitch-Soccergrass-turf field. here it comes
« Reply #13 on: December 02, 2011, 06:18:55 PM »
Hate turf period, high or low quality.  Give me a well maintained grass pitch any day
Education is our passport for the future for the future belongs to those who prepare for it today

Offline Mango Chow!

  • Hero Warrior
  • *****
  • Posts: 5720
    • View Profile
Re: Plastic pitch-Soccergrass-turf field. here it comes
« Reply #14 on: December 02, 2011, 06:40:28 PM »
#4, thank you for your informative input on d matter.  I agree wit most of y'all here, I HATE artificial surfaces no matter the quality.  Once astro-turf (ah does still call it dat) get wet, d ball does skate off the surface at a pace that leaves players shuffling and you cannot run as nuturally on a wet astro-turf surface as you can on wet grass, and it doh matter WHAT kinda footwear yuh have on.  A few years ago, a coach for a travel team asked me to coach his young GK's and I said "yes" at first, but once we couldn't secure a location to train them on natural grass, I had to backtrack on my agreement.  You can do certain drills and exercises on ar\stro-turf but once yuh start having to go into the demanding drills that involve any kind of diving and stuff, it is not good for the body, young or old......and I wasn't going to be responsible for sending young kids home to their parents being any more battered and bruisedthan they need to be.  Football is a sport best played on natural grass, period! 


Not because a man ears long and he teet' long dat it make him a Jackass!

Offline Football supporter

  • Hero Warrior
  • *****
  • Posts: 5209
    • View Profile
Re: Plastic pitch-Soccergrass-turf field. here it comes
« Reply #15 on: December 02, 2011, 06:57:49 PM »
Certainly, turf hasn't the same feel as grass, but its a better surface than most of the stadium pitches. The Marvin Lee surface is abysmal. There seems to be hardly any maintenence carried out and its an old style turf. The new Fifa A and b turfs are much better, but still require maintainence. North East chose the Ameriturf model which is used at Twickenham.

As mentioned, the problem with grass is protecting it from the community. If they still build a stadium, they would choose Bermuda grass as they would be able to control usage. Otherwise, it has to be turf or you'd be spending $1 million per year to repair the grass surface.

Offline Deeks

  • Hero Warrior
  • *****
  • Posts: 18631
    • View Profile
Re: Plastic pitch-Soccergrass-turf field. here it comes
« Reply #16 on: December 02, 2011, 07:22:02 PM »
Ameriturf model which is used at Twickenham.

FS, Bonjay!! Twickenham, as in the rugby stadium in London. I swore that was a grass field. I have never been to either Twick or Wembley, but from the renditions I have seen of both, Wembley eh have much on Twick. I believe you can play an international football in Twick.

Offline Deeks

  • Hero Warrior
  • *****
  • Posts: 18631
    • View Profile
Re: Plastic pitch-Soccergrass-turf field. here it comes
« Reply #17 on: December 02, 2011, 08:02:57 PM »
By the way FS. Is NE going to install the turf on the Sangre Grande rec. ground or at another place in Grande?

Offline Football supporter

  • Hero Warrior
  • *****
  • Posts: 5209
    • View Profile
Re: Plastic pitch-Soccergrass-turf field. here it comes
« Reply #18 on: December 02, 2011, 08:23:38 PM »
By the way FS. Is NE going to install the turf on the Sangre Grande rec. ground or at another place in Grande?

Not sure. There are talks surrounding Ojoe Rd and Damorie Hill. One thing: Anil being very supportive.

Offline Bakes

  • Promethean...
  • Hero Warrior
  • *****
  • Posts: 21980
    • View Profile
Re: Plastic pitch-Soccergrass-turf field. here it comes
« Reply #19 on: December 03, 2011, 12:04:57 AM »
Deeks yuh family Grenadian or what?  Or Lucian?

Offline Deeks

  • Hero Warrior
  • *****
  • Posts: 18631
    • View Profile
Re: Plastic pitch-Soccergrass-turf field. here it comes
« Reply #20 on: December 03, 2011, 12:24:23 PM »
Deeks yuh family Grenadian or what?  Or Lucian?

Both.

Offline Bitter

  • Hero Warrior
  • *****
  • Posts: 9689
    • View Profile
Re: Plastic pitch-Soccergrass-turf field. here it comes
« Reply #21 on: December 03, 2011, 02:02:59 PM »
I like the fieldturf, it's easy on the joints for old men like me and not bad to fall on. Just remember to close yuh mouth and eyes (and nose) As for maintenance, I just play a field-hockey tournament @ the Maryland Polo grounds, where they fill in the hoof marks with sand and we were glad it didn't rain. There is another big one in Delaware where they take a tractor and cut the grass in front of the airport with a tractor and mark off fields. Allyuh could talk about the various savannah grounds around T&T. I never see anything so.

When I was back home, the fields used by the first 11 for ssfl, were damn near perfect (Guaracara park too, though you could lose a stick in some of them cracks) Out here in College, the intramural fields was some of the worst rectangles of "grass" ever.

If you check out a good field-hockey turf, it's the short-carpet style. They wet it for  a couple reasons; to prevent carpet burns and to keep the ball on the ground (the dimpled ball will stick). The ball moves faster, and you need shoes that can handle the slick surface. Supposedly a surface like that will last 10 years or so.
Bitter is a supercalifragilistic tic-tac-pro

 

1]; } ?>