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Offline Coop's

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Re: The benefits of the SSFL
« Reply #30 on: December 05, 2011, 08:57:17 AM »
It does not matter what kind of football you play, it will all help your development.

If you playing small goal in the road or academy football for Man U, as long as you getting out there and touching the ball you getting better as a player.

any kind of football is good football,

yes certain trainings may be better than others etc

but the point is there is stuff you can learn playing small goal that you cannot learn playing on an organized team,

There is stuff you can learn playing football for your school that you cannot learn playing for Jabloteh youth team.

the benefits are in the totality of the environments.
       Makes sense to me. :beermug: :beermug:

Offline Mad Scorpion a/k/a Big Bo$$

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Re: The benefits of the SSFL
« Reply #31 on: December 05, 2011, 10:34:48 AM »
If the goal is increasing participation... and ah li'l competition, then the SSFL is boss.  If the goal is developing footballers ("from a footballing standpoint") then it's a waste of time.  Don't quite know when the product became as poor as it is right now, but there aren't enough games, and competitive games among quality opponents, for players to develop.
       In the US, Youth Soccer is all about participation and having fun and they get top quality players from that,if these kids not enjoying the game you loose them in a very short time,there must be some where,league,level of the game etc etc for every one to enjoy regardless of ability and this is what the schools provide.The thing is who more serious and feel they can play at higher levels go for it,it's an option but the SSFL is not there to produce national team players but you will always find national team players coming from there,check our history.   

Exactly which part of the US is that?

High school soccer?  In many schools soccer is still not a main sport and so it is treated with an "everyone who signs up must play" mentality.  They dont adhere to substitution rules and sub players out and back in like its basketball.  They do this in order for all to "have fun"  In order to play much more organized soccer parents have to put their children in clubs (especially ones that travel) for best results.  Ayso is also very much a "for fun" league.  I know because I am part of the coaching system and it is rung like a bell every year at the meetings.  The goal is for the children to have fun and if they happen to develop good skills along the way great.  None who are involved are to be left out of games nor should be forced to only play one position unless they choose to do so.  So what Coops and Deeks mention are spot on.

Offline Coop's

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Re: The benefits of the SSFL
« Reply #32 on: December 05, 2011, 10:54:50 AM »
If the goal is increasing participation... and ah li'l competition, then the SSFL is boss.  If the goal is developing footballers ("from a footballing standpoint") then it's a waste of time.  Don't quite know when the product became as poor as it is right now, but there aren't enough games, and competitive games among quality opponents, for players to develop.
       In the US, Youth Soccer is all about participation and having fun and they get top quality players from that,if these kids not enjoying the game you loose them in a very short time,there must be some where,league,level of the game etc etc for every one to enjoy regardless of ability and this is what the schools provide.The thing is who more serious and feel they can play at higher levels go for it,it's an option but the SSFL is not there to produce national team players but you will always find national team players coming from there,check our history.   

Exactly which part of the US is that?

High school soccer?  In many schools soccer is still not a main sport and so it is treated with an "everyone who signs up must play" mentality.  They dont adhere to substitution rules and sub players out and back in like its basketball.  They do this in order for all to "have fun"  In order to play much more organized soccer parents have to put their children in clubs (especially ones that travel) for best results.  Ayso is also very much a "for fun" league.  I know because I am part of the coaching system and it is rung like a bell every year at the meetings.  The goal is for the children to have fun and if they happen to develop good skills along the way great.  None who are involved are to be left out of games nor should be forced to only play one position unless they choose to do so.  So what Coops and Deeks mention are spot on.
        :beermug: :beermug:This was my reason for saying to Elan that i'm not argueing or fighting,i am also a Coach in the US system,i'm involved with Youth Soccer in the US since i came here,i will not go into my credentials etc etc but i'll state that i have the USSF National Youth Lisence and at one time was the Technical Director for one of the clubs.I am not saying i'm an expert and know it all about anything but when i talk,i talk from the little i know (i could be wrong).Some folks are just out to discredit others,i'm just glad for the opportunity on this forum to share my views. Substitution at club level is the same thing.
« Last Edit: December 05, 2011, 10:59:36 AM by Coop's »

Offline Mad Scorpion a/k/a Big Bo$$

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Re: The benefits of the SSFL
« Reply #33 on: December 05, 2011, 11:19:49 AM »
        :beermug: :beermug: This was my reason for saying to Elan that i'm not argueing or fighting,i am also a Coach in the US system,i'm involved with Youth Soccer in the US since i came here,i will not go into my credentials etc etc but i'll state that i have the USSF National Youth Lisence and at one time was the Technical Director for one of the clubs.I am not saying i'm an expert and know it all about anything but when i talk,i talk from the little i know (i could be wrong).Some folks are just out to discredit others,i'm just glad for the opportunity on this forum to share my views. Substitution at club level is the same thing.

That I didn't know as I've yet to get involved in club ball.  That is a bit disappointing to me but then again they still somehow manage to turn out very good players.  So maybe there is a method to the madness I guess.  Funny how even with the model that AYSO employs they still turn out lots of NT material for the US teams.  To me for people to say SSFL is a joke and a waste is a lil bit much.  Like it or not they still play a role in some of the best TnT has to offer. Some coaches and schools have better programs than others.  St. Anthony's for instance has set the stage for players like KJ, Carlos, Corn Curls and Julius to succeed so it cant be a waste by any stretch

Offline elan

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Re: The benefits of the SSFL
« Reply #34 on: December 05, 2011, 11:43:33 AM »
        :beermug: :beermug: This was my reason for saying to Elan that i'm not argueing or fighting,i am also a Coach in the US system,i'm involved with Youth Soccer in the US since i came here,i will not go into my credentials etc etc but i'll state that i have the USSF National Youth Lisence and at one time was the Technical Director for one of the clubs.I am not saying i'm an expert and know it all about anything but when i talk,i talk from the little i know (i could be wrong).Some folks are just out to discredit others,i'm just glad for the opportunity on this forum to share my views. Substitution at club level is the same thing.

That I didn't know as I've yet to get involved in club ball.  That is a bit disappointing to me but then again they still somehow manage to turn out very good players.  So maybe there is a method to the madness I guess.  Funny how even with the model that AYSO employs they still turn out lots of NT material for the US teams.  To me for people to say SSFL is a joke and a waste is a lil bit much.  Like it or not they still play a role in some of the best TnT has to offer. Some coaches and schools have better programs than others.  St. Anthony's for instance has set the stage for players like KJ, Carlos, Corn Curls and Julius to succeed so it cant be a waste by any stretch

Ok REC soccer is for "fun" after you pay to sign up and receive a tshirt and some times a pair of socks. At this level there is not much of a choice as most coaches are parents who have a VERY limited knowledge and understanding of soccer. I guess if you are looking at rec then yes you are "right".

Unlimited subs and the the use of, does not directly equate to players having fun. Read the average travel soccer club rules and you will always more than likely find that substitutions are decided upon by the coach of the team, along with positions and playing time. All efforts to allow all players to play equal times will be made but not guaranteed.

Again in theory and some what applied, but basically you are right.
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Offline Tenorsaw

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Re: The benefits of the SSFL
« Reply #35 on: December 05, 2011, 11:47:43 AM »
        :beermug: :beermug: This was my reason for saying to Elan that i'm not argueing or fighting,i am also a Coach in the US system,i'm involved with Youth Soccer in the US since i came here,i will not go into my credentials etc etc but i'll state that i have the USSF National Youth Lisence and at one time was the Technical Director for one of the clubs.I am not saying i'm an expert and know it all about anything but when i talk,i talk from the little i know (i could be wrong).Some folks are just out to discredit others,i'm just glad for the opportunity on this forum to share my views. Substitution at club level is the same thing.

That I didn't know as I've yet to get involved in club ball.  That is a bit disappointing to me but then again they still somehow manage to turn out very good players.  So maybe there is a method to the madness I guess.  Funny how even with the model that AYSO employs they still turn out lots of NT material for the US teams.  To me for people to say SSFL is a joke and a waste is a lil bit much.  Like it or not they still play a role in some of the best TnT has to offer. Some coaches and schools have better programs than others.  St. Anthony's for instance has set the stage for players like KJ, Carlos, Corn Curls and Julius to succeed so it cant be a waste by any stretch

Agreed.  My contention is that if you were to compare youths playing in the SSFL and match them up against youths in Spain, Brazil, Argentina, for example, you would see a gap in the development level.  Reason for this is the structural organization of the game.  Development rests with the professional teams from U9 go up.  While the SSFL has churned out its fair share of talent, the game has changed a bit, and the league has remained stagnant.  Youths are now developing at a much earlier age into senior teams of many pro clubs, but at that level back home, many of our players are sorely lacking in the fundamentals of the game.  Yet, men swelling their head.

Offline Coop's

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Re: The benefits of the SSFL
« Reply #36 on: December 05, 2011, 12:31:33 PM »
Elan i'm glad you have come to terms with what i was trying to say,while you are on spot with the mechanics of the substitution rules,this in itself can equate to participation by all kids,Coaches are usually under pressure not playing a kid in a game,imagine parents pay Club fees,league fees,pay for tournaments,buy uniforms etc etc and game time not getting to play?people out here pay money to see their kids play it does not matter what level.
The system out here (Youth Soccer) has Rec,Advance and Select levels,even schools at all levels have unlimited substition,is all about participation.
On a little side note,i had the experience of witnessing a school substituting their entire eleven in a game in the school league in Richmond.     

Offline Mad Scorpion a/k/a Big Bo$$

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Re: The benefits of the SSFL
« Reply #37 on: December 05, 2011, 12:33:41 PM »
Agreed.  My contention is that if you were to compare youths playing in the SSFL and match them up against youths in Spain, Brazil, Argentina, for example, you would see a gap in the development level.  Reason for this is the structural organization of the game.  Development rests with the professional teams from U9 go up.  While the SSFL has churned out its fair share of talent, the game has changed a bit, and the league has remained stagnant.  Youths are now developing at a much earlier age into senior teams of many pro clubs, but at that level back home, many of our players are sorely lacking in the fundamentals of the game.  Yet, men swelling their head.

See that right there is the real issue.  People are constantly hyping up some of these yutes to the point that they become swell headed.  Can't blame these young kids when people tellin dem dey is de best.  Problem is, if no one gives it to them straight and (God forbid) they get a trial or 2, then they cant even shake that superior feeling even if they try.  I agree the structure can certainly do with some improvements tho.

Offline Bakes

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Re: The benefits of the SSFL
« Reply #38 on: December 05, 2011, 02:32:15 PM »
That is a reference to the domestic league ... not the EPL.

Quote
For, at a time when the majority of Premier League teams struggle to fill their venues on match days, there is hardly a schoolboy football game where a decent gathering of spectators is not a given.

Jamaica calls their domestic league the "Premier League"?  Who knew.  I stand corrected on that then.

High school soccer?  In many schools soccer is still not a main sport and so it is treated with an "everyone who signs up must play" mentality.  They dont adhere to substitution rules and sub players out and back in like its basketball.  They do this in order for all to "have fun"  In order to play much more organized soccer parents have to put their children in clubs (especially ones that travel) for best results.  Ayso is also very much a "for fun" league.  I know because I am part of the coaching system and it is rung like a bell every year at the meetings.  The goal is for the children to have fun and if they happen to develop good skills along the way great.  None who are involved are to be left out of games nor should be forced to only play one position unless they choose to do so.  So what Coops and Deeks mention are spot on.

No one is arguing that Youth Soccer isn't played for fun anywhere in the US... check Coop's statement again though:

"In the US, Youth Soccer is all about participation and having fun"

        :beermug: :beermug:This was my reason for saying to Elan that i'm not argueing or fighting,i am also a Coach in the US system,i'm involved with Youth Soccer in the US since i came here,i will not go into my credentials etc etc but i'll state that i have the USSF National Youth Lisence and at one time was the Technical Director for one of the clubs.I am not saying i'm an expert and know it all about anything but when i talk,i talk from the little i know (i could be wrong).Some folks are just out to discredit others,i'm just glad for the opportunity on this forum to share my views. Substitution at club level is the same thing.

Coop's you is something else yes fella... so man question something that yuh say and dat mean that we trying to "discredit" yuh?  You serious?
« Last Edit: December 05, 2011, 02:34:42 PM by Bakes »

Offline ZANDOLIE

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Re: The benefits of the SSFL
« Reply #39 on: December 05, 2011, 02:39:45 PM »
could somebody explain how these youths head getting 'swell' more so than any other youths in any other nation?

of all the reasons the ssfl, as well as ALL OTHER aspects of football in trinidad and tobago needs to be re-evaluated and overhauled, swell headed yutes is the least. some of the swell headed adults that run the ssfl need to be humble themselves and accept that they are among the local football fraternity that are underperforming.
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Offline Bakes

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Re: The benefits of the SSFL
« Reply #40 on: December 05, 2011, 02:41:41 PM »
That I didn't know as I've yet to get involved in club ball.  That is a bit disappointing to me but then again they still somehow manage to turn out very good players.  So maybe there is a method to the madness I guess.  Funny how even with the model that AYSO employs they still turn out lots of NT material for the US teams.  To me for people to say SSFL is a joke and a waste is a lil bit much.  Like it or not they still play a role in some of the best TnT has to offer. Some coaches and schools have better programs than others.  St. Anthony's for instance has set the stage for players like KJ, Carlos, Corn Curls and Julius to succeed so it cant be a waste by any stretch

Did KJ and Carlos get to where they are because of St. Anthony's?  Perhaps... but I'd argue that Defence Force had a big part to play in their development as well... if not bigger.  Citing one or two players who happen to progress to international (or even club) football after playing SSFL is hardly an argument in favor of the league.  How man peak at that level only to fail later on owing to deficiencies in their game?  Of course the fact that many fail to deliver on their early potential is not the fault of the SSFL, that is a fact throughout the world of athletic, the pyramid effect.  But is it helping more than it's hindering development as presently constituted? 

Offline kaiser

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Re: The benefits of the SSFL
« Reply #41 on: December 05, 2011, 06:00:45 PM »
That I didn't know as I've yet to get involved in club ball.  That is a bit disappointing to me but then again they still somehow manage to turn out very good players.  So maybe there is a method to the madness I guess.  Funny how even with the model that AYSO employs they still turn out lots of NT material for the US teams.  To me for people to say SSFL is a joke and a waste is a lil bit much.  Like it or not they still play a role in some of the best TnT has to offer. Some coaches and schools have better programs than others.  St. Anthony's for instance has set the stage for players like KJ, Carlos, Corn Curls and Julius to succeed so it cant be a waste by any stretch

Did KJ and Carlos get to where they are because of St. Anthony's?  Perhaps... but I'd argue that Defence Force had a big part to play in their development as well... if not bigger.  Citing one or two players who happen to progress to international (or even club) football after playing SSFL is hardly an argument in favor of the league.  How man peak at that level only to fail later on owing to deficiencies in their game?  Of course the fact that many fail to deliver on their early potential is not the fault of the SSFL, that is a fact throughout the world of athletic, the pyramid effect.  But is it helping more than it's hindering development as presently constituted? 

 Firstly K.J never played for defence force and yes actually St Anthony's college plays a big part in player development, if not it is a hell of a coincidence that in the last decade or so they have produced over forty maybe more national team players from senior to junior teams,i think some people don't know what they talking about mostly, they just parroting what they hear others saying ,ask any of them when was the last time they watch games in the ssfl season and they can't answer, the league is not perfect not by a longshot but it has it's uses, Maybe one of the statisticians on the site can help me with the percentage of non ssfl ex players in the national senior setup in the last 20 years and i am sure from that it will be glaring to see that the ssfl is an important part of our player development setup, so my plea is not to be dismissive of it but give constructive ideas to further devolp it, help it grow further it is our thing every poster on this site i am sure have an intercol story from their time . This is our thing this is something that makes us trinbagonian lets try to improve it so others will get some memories and the players will go further than their predecessors.

Offline Bakes

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Re: The benefits of the SSFL
« Reply #42 on: December 05, 2011, 10:41:16 PM »
Firstly K.J never played for defence force and yes actually St Anthony's college plays a big part in player development, if not it is a hell of a coincidence that in the last decade or so they have produced over forty maybe more national team players from senior to junior teams,i think some people don't know what they talking about mostly, they just parroting what they hear others saying ,ask any of them when was the last time they watch games in the ssfl season and they can't answer, the league is not perfect not by a longshot but it has it's uses, Maybe one of the statisticians on the site can help me with the percentage of non ssfl ex players in the national senior setup in the last 20 years and i am sure from that it will be glaring to see that the ssfl is an important part of our player development setup, so my plea is not to be dismissive of it but give constructive ideas to further devolp it, help it grow further it is our thing every poster on this site i am sure have an intercol story from their time . This is our thing this is something that makes us trinbagonian lets try to improve it so others will get some memories and the players will go further than their predecessors.

Defence Force... Petrotrin, Joe Public... same difference, club football.

Even if we accept as yuh say, that St. Anthony's contribute so many old boys to the national set up... how is that an endorsement of the SSFL on the whole? And then this shit talk about man just "parroting" what others saying... why, because you have de franchise on news and information on the SSFL? Yuh right many here (speaking for myself) don't get to see many league games, but up until last year regular highlights could be found on the SSFL site.  Maybe the site was doing a disservice to the league by only highlighting poor football then?

You living in the past... the point here isn't to bash SSFL the entity, or the tradition.  The point is that since the expansion of the league over the past decade or so the quality has declined precipitously from the league's heyday in the early-mid 80s.  You acting like man just on ah tear down scenes for no reason.

Offline Football supporter

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Re: The benefits of the SSFL
« Reply #43 on: December 05, 2011, 11:31:27 PM »
could somebody explain how these youths head getting 'swell' more so than any other youths in any other nation?

of all the reasons the ssfl, as well as ALL OTHER aspects of football in trinidad and tobago needs to be re-evaluated and overhauled, swell headed yutes is the least. some of the swell headed adults that run the ssfl need to be humble themselves and accept that they are among the local football fraternity that are underperforming.

Well, I can't speak for other countries, but in England you would be lucky to see 20 people watching a school football match (aside from cup finals etc). Playing for your school team makes you one of the "in" crowd, but thats about it. The real kudos is sunday league football. Once you're in a good team, you get lots of scouts watching. A well known "feeder" club is called Senrab F.C. (Barnes - a district of London spelt backwards). Many EPL and FL professionals came through this club. On a sunday on Hackney Marshes you will see all 84 football pitches in use, usually two or three games played on each. This is a main hangout for scouts from Southern England. Beckham, the Ferdinands, Ledley King were all spotted there. On a Saturday, there are senior matches (over 16's). I believe Ian Wright and Ian Cox were both spotted in these leagues.

My point is, that school football in T&T seems to interfere with players development. Unlike many countries, school boys in T&T are elevated to star status. I have heard that next year school football may be televised. This is crazy when the Pro League & Super League players are unknown. When school players join ProLeague clubs, they often have poor attitudes and are not fit, yet they stroll around like they're the next Messi.

In the UK, you join a professional club at 16. You are assigned a player and you look after their kit and clean their boots. You arrive before the seniors and leave after they do. You DO NOT associate with the seniors. You eat at separate tables and don't answer back. I'm pretty sure Stevie G used to clean Dalglish's boots and he literally had to earn that privilege.

Young players have to learn to be grateful for a chance at pro football, to respect their elders and to heed the coaches. Becoming a professional takes more than signing a contract.

I think there is a place for school football, but it should be entwined with a developmental programme with the Pro League. There should be a defined career pyramid that takes talented youngsters to regional teams, then national teams who play schoolboy internationals at home and overseas. 

Offline Coop's

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Re: The benefits of the SSFL
« Reply #44 on: December 06, 2011, 06:29:46 AM »


Coop's you is something else yes fella... so man question something that yuh say and dat mean that we trying to "discredit" yuh?  You serious?

[/quote]
         May be i interprited the questions different to you but when man ask me "what part of the US?" based on the topic at hand it implied to me i don't know what i'm talking about or i'm stupid.This is a man who knows about US Soccer,their phylosophy, structure, rules, programs,sylabus for all their courses etc etc and asking me a question like that?

Offline futbolfan

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Re: The benefits of the SSFL
« Reply #45 on: December 06, 2011, 08:29:09 AM »
could somebody explain how these youths head getting 'swell' more so than any other youths in any other nation?

of all the reasons the ssfl, as well as ALL OTHER aspects of football in trinidad and tobago needs to be re-evaluated and overhauled, swell headed yutes is the least. some of the swell headed adults that run the ssfl need to be humble themselves and accept that they are among the local football fraternity that are underperforming.

Well, I can't speak for other countries, but in England you would be lucky to see 20 people watching a school football match (aside from cup finals etc). Playing for your school team makes you one of the "in" crowd, but thats about it. The real kudos is sunday league football. Once you're in a good team, you get lots of scouts watching. A well known "feeder" club is called Senrab F.C. (Barnes - a district of London spelt backwards). Many EPL and FL professionals came through this club. On a sunday on Hackney Marshes you will see all 84 football pitches in use, usually two or three games played on each. This is a main hangout for scouts from Southern England. Beckham, the Ferdinands, Ledley King were all spotted there. On a Saturday, there are senior matches (over 16's). I believe Ian Wright and Ian Cox were both spotted in these leagues.

My point is, that school football in T&T seems to interfere with players development. Unlike many countries, school boys in T&T are elevated to star status. I have heard that next year school football may be televised. This is crazy when the Pro League & Super League players are unknown. When school players join ProLeague clubs, they often have poor attitudes and are not fit, yet they stroll around like they're the next Messi.

In the UK, you join a professional club at 16. You are assigned a player and you look after their kit and clean their boots. You arrive before the seniors and leave after they do. You DO NOT associate with the seniors. You eat at separate tables and don't answer back. I'm pretty sure Stevie G used to clean Dalglish's boots and he literally had to earn that privilege.Young players have to learn to be grateful for a chance at pro football, to respect their elders and to heed the coaches. Becoming a professional takes more than signing a contract.

I think there is a place for school football, but it should be entwined with a developmental programme with the Pro League. There should be a defined career pyramid that takes talented youngsters to regional teams, then national teams who play schoolboy internationals at home and overseas. 

Interesting...

I woulda like to be a fly on de wall to hear de dialogue if any coach did ask Hardest to clean Latas boots...  ::)
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Offline Bakes

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Re: The benefits of the SSFL
« Reply #46 on: December 06, 2011, 08:36:30 AM »
         May be i interprited the questions different to you but when man ask me "what part of the US?" based on the topic at hand it implied to me i don't know what i'm talking about or i'm stupid.This is a man who knows about US Soccer,their phylosophy, structure, rules, programs,sylabus for all their courses etc etc and asking me a question like that?

Coop's you and I go back at least 5 years so I know enough about you and your involvement in youth soccer both here and back in Blanchsseusse.  HOWEVER... look at the sweeping statement yuh make... "In the US, Youth Soccer is all about participation and having fun"

I'm sorry, but that is plain false.  Maybe in the Tidewater area where you are that may be true, but it's certainly not applicable to other parts of the US where it is largely pay for play and where the competition, particularly in the Southwest, is ruthless.

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Re: The benefits of the SSFL
« Reply #47 on: December 06, 2011, 09:21:12 AM »
Interesting comments about young professionals>>>>



Frank Lampard spoke volumes this week when he expressed his dismay that youngsters at football clubs trainees no longer have to clean boots as in the old days of YTS boys and apprentices.

Lampard said: "There are good young pros and lads out there but, nowadays, it's made too easy for them, much too easy.

"It's hard for me because we're all lucky to be where we are, leading nice lifestyles, but that lifestyle is coming earlier and earlier. The lads are forgetting the hard work that needs to be done to earn that lifestyle.

"Sometimes when you mix with international players and have a taste of the trimmings at 16, 17 or 18, you can forget that you're not there yet. You think you're there already. I have had a word with some of them.

"I'm close to one or two of the younger Chelsea boys. I'm not digging out everyone. There are some who are great lads. Players don't clean boots any more. I'm a big advocate of that.

"Me and John Terry always complain that they should be cleaning boots because it was a great learning curve for us, being told off by Julian Dicks and having the boots thrown back at you. That was an important element."

Lampard always talks a lot of sense and he understands the importance of a proper football education, the importance of respect from your peers and also hard work and total commitment to his profession.

Offline Arimaman

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Re: The benefits of the SSFL
« Reply #48 on: December 06, 2011, 09:21:58 AM »
I have sat back and read most of all the comments and one clear distinction is missing.  Let's be honest, Grovy not necessarily developing players at St. Anthony's, he merely recruits them.  That's what the high schools do now recruit.  It started with Sando Tech.  I would like to know how many of the top players in the SSFL playing with pro clubs and on the national youth teams? 

Allyuh really think Kenny Thomas develop Jerren Nixon or Grovy develop Kenwyn Jones?  Really?  Now, did they have a hand in their development, yes, but I'll argue the clubs and the jr national teams had a lot more influence. 

When I played in the SSFL in the late 80's early 90's, by that time I would say my most meaningful training sessions and development took place "training" with the national team.  Was I good enough to play with the starting eleven or even make the national youth teams, (probably/probably not) but I've always said Ronald Alexis (Eggs) was tough but the best coach I've ever had fundamentally.  He coached me for 2 years with the national U13 and U14 teams.  National team training sessions, playing and training with the best brings out the best in you.

All this to say, I agree, from a strictly development standpoint the SSFL is not the best place but it does give the players a platform to perform.  The people in the know (national team coaches and fellow players) knew about Dwight Yorke before Signal Hill but the avg person did not.  SSFL gave him the platform to be seen and thus he took off. 

We have got to go back to having zonal youth teams to provide sufficient coaching (similar to ODP in the US) and from that development they can go on to the national teams.  This will allow for a broader pool of players to be coached effectively.  Bottom line is we technically had the structure in the past but it appears somewhere along the line we lost it.
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Offline Daft Trini

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Re: The benefits of the SSFL
« Reply #49 on: December 06, 2011, 09:26:56 AM »
being a star in the SSFL makes you popular on facebook.... :beermug:

Offline ZANDOLIE

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Re: The benefits of the SSFL
« Reply #50 on: December 06, 2011, 10:54:21 AM »
could somebody explain how these youths head getting 'swell' more so than any other youths in any other nation?

of all the reasons the ssfl, as well as ALL OTHER aspects of football in trinidad and tobago needs to be re-evaluated and overhauled, swell headed yutes is the least. some of the swell headed adults that run the ssfl need to be humble themselves and accept that they are among the local football fraternity that are underperforming.

Well, I can't speak for other countries, but in England you would be lucky to see 20 people watching a school football match (aside from cup finals etc). Playing for your school team makes you one of the "in" crowd, but thats about it. The real kudos is sunday league football. Once you're in a good team, you get lots of scouts watching.

My point is, that school football in T&T seems to interfere with players development. Unlike many countries, school boys in T&T are elevated to star status. I have heard that next year school football may be televised. This is crazy when the Pro League & Super League players are unknown. When school players join ProLeague clubs, they often have poor attitudes and are not fit, yet they stroll around like they're the next Messi.

In the UK, you join a professional club at 16. You are assigned a player and you look after their kit and clean their boots. You arrive before the seniors and leave after they do. You DO NOT associate with the seniors. You eat at separate tables and don't answer back. I'm pretty sure Stevie G used to clean Dalglish's boots and he literally had to earn that privilege.

Young players have to learn to be grateful for a chance at pro football, to respect their elders and to heed the coaches. Becoming a professional takes more than signing a contract.

I think there is a place for school football, but it should be entwined with a developmental programme with the Pro League. There should be a defined career pyramid that takes talented youngsters to regional teams, then national teams who play schoolboy internationals at home and overseas. 



not sure if strolling around like the next messi is limited to t&t people or chupid yutes the world over. in the last few years many of the more highly regarded ssfl players have not even gone to the pro-league. de sliva, paul, knox, daniel joseph, bentick, julius james, avery john, stern etc. so the league could be getting dregs who trying to cover inadequacies with chest thumping.

maybe high school football is not big in england but it certainly is popular in the US, and so is NCAA soccer. nothing wrong with that, but as stated many times these conservative, gutless people running the game really need to take off their 1974 sunglasses and get into the modern world.

one thing about t&t is that we can't seem to understand that its the adults that create and promote the institutions and environments that are contributing to the failure of our young people. nothing wrong with an ssfl athlete with a little ego, but they cannot develop if they are not grounded in reality by those who know better. that is why i'm saying that they must be exposed to international competition as schoolboys. seeing as ssfl is still regarded as the pinnacle of youth football, why not let st anthony's or naps compete in tournaments against club teams? or against their school counterparts in JA, Haiti, the US etc. why not have them compete against U-20 teams from the likes of Grenada, B'dos, or St Kitts?

then again admin would have to get up off their collective arses and actually EARN their paychecks. so little chance of that happening anytime soon
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Offline Mad Scorpion a/k/a Big Bo$$

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Re: The benefits of the SSFL
« Reply #51 on: December 06, 2011, 12:08:25 PM »
I have sat back and read most of all the comments and one clear distinction is missing.  Let's be honest, Grovy not necessarily developing players at St. Anthony's, he merely recruits them.  That's what the high schools do now recruit.  It started with Sando Tech.  I would like to know how many of the top players in the SSFL playing with pro clubs and on the national youth teams? 

Allyuh really think Kenny Thomas develop Jerren Nixon or Grovy develop Kenwyn Jones?  Really?  Now, did they have a hand in their development, yes, but I'll argue the clubs and the jr national teams had a lot more influence. 

When I played in the SSFL in the late 80's early 90's, by that time I would say my most meaningful training sessions and development took place "training" with the national team.  Was I good enough to play with the starting eleven or even make the national youth teams, (probably/probably not) but I've always said Ronald Alexis (Eggs) was tough but the best coach I've ever had fundamentally.  He coached me for 2 years with the national U13 and U14 teams.  National team training sessions, playing and training with the best brings out the best in you.

All this to say, I agree, from a strictly development standpoint the SSFL is not the best place but it does give the players a platform to perform.  The people in the know (national team coaches and fellow players) knew about Dwight Yorke before Signal Hill but the avg person did not.  SSFL gave him the platform to be seen and thus he took off. 

We have got to go back to having zonal youth teams to provide sufficient coaching (similar to ODP in the US) and from that development they can go on to the national teams.  This will allow for a broader pool of players to be coached effectively.  Bottom line is we technically had the structure in the past but it appears somewhere along the line we lost it.

Hoss you talkin rell shit!!  Nuff man pass straight into St. Anthony's and join the team.  Of course there are players that come over from other schools and such but to claim de man eh developing players and only recruits shows yuh either rell ignorant or don't want to give credit where it is due.  Ask players who played for SAC and you'd be hard pressed to find any that would say he was not instrumental in their development.  Apart from that he is also part of the National youth setup so to make it seem as if that is where they develop then yuh still have to give Grovy some of that credit.  So Eggs was ah bess coach buh Grovy is just a recruiter ent.  Steups allyuh does talk shit fuh talkin it sake oui.  I guess it must be a coincidence that in the last 2 decades and counting dat so much SAC men does feature on the national teams from Jrs to seniors.

Offline Arimaman

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Re: The benefits of the SSFL
« Reply #52 on: December 06, 2011, 02:29:07 PM »
I have sat back and read most of all the comments and one clear distinction is missing.  Let's be honest, Grovy not necessarily developing players at St. Anthony's, he merely recruits them.  That's what the high schools do now recruit.  It started with Sando Tech.  I would like to know how many of the top players in the SSFL playing with pro clubs and on the national youth teams? 

Allyuh really think Kenny Thomas develop Jerren Nixon or Grovy develop Kenwyn Jones?  Really?  Now, did they have a hand in their development, yes, but I'll argue the clubs and the jr national teams had a lot more influence. 

When I played in the SSFL in the late 80's early 90's, by that time I would say my most meaningful training sessions and development took place "training" with the national team.  Was I good enough to play with the starting eleven or even make the national youth teams, (probably/probably not) but I've always said Ronald Alexis (Eggs) was tough but the best coach I've ever had fundamentally.  He coached me for 2 years with the national U13 and U14 teams.  National team training sessions, playing and training with the best brings out the best in you.

All this to say, I agree, from a strictly development standpoint the SSFL is not the best place but it does give the players a platform to perform.  The people in the know (national team coaches and fellow players) knew about Dwight Yorke before Signal Hill but the avg person did not.  SSFL gave him the platform to be seen and thus he took off. 

We have got to go back to having zonal youth teams to provide sufficient coaching (similar to ODP in the US) and from that development they can go on to the national teams.  This will allow for a broader pool of players to be coached effectively.  Bottom line is we technically had the structure in the past but it appears somewhere along the line we lost it.

Hoss you talkin rell shit!!  Nuff man pass straight into St. Anthony's and join the team.  Of course there are players that come over from other schools and such but to claim de man eh developing players and only recruits shows yuh either rell ignorant or don't want to give credit where it is due.  Ask players who played for SAC and you'd be hard pressed to find any that would say he was not instrumental in their development.  Apart from that he is also part of the National youth setup so to make it seem as if that is where they develop then yuh still have to give Grovy some of that credit.  So Eggs was ah bess coach buh Grovy is just a recruiter ent.  Steups allyuh does talk shit fuh talkin it sake oui.  I guess it must be a coincidence that in the last 2 decades and counting dat so much SAC men does feature on the national teams from Jrs to seniors.
You're a tad agressive in your beliefs aren't you?   
No, I think you're taking what I'm saying way out of context.  Not saying that Grovy is not a good coach, at least I don't believe I said that.  In fact, I'd go on record as saying he is an outstanding coach, so is Grayson from Gustine, Spicer from Eldo, etc.  A high school coach (please educate me if I'm incorrect), has access to the kids in the summer and fall...you really think that is development?  Really? All I am saying is that it takes years to develop players and simply playing SSFL eh go make yuh good.  In addition by that time it's already too late.   
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Offline Mad Scorpion a/k/a Big Bo$$

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Re: The benefits of the SSFL
« Reply #53 on: December 06, 2011, 03:02:36 PM »
You're a tad agressive in your beliefs aren't you?   
No, I think you're taking what I'm saying way out of context.  Not saying that Grovy is not a good coach, at least I don't believe I said that.  In fact, I'd go on record as saying he is an outstanding coach, so is Grayson from Gustine, Spicer from Eldo, etc.  A high school coach (please educate me if I'm incorrect), has access to the kids in the summer and fall...you really think that is development?  Really? All I am saying is that it takes years to develop players and simply playing SSFL eh go make yuh good.  In addition by that time it's already too late.   

Daz how ah does talk do take dat no way.  By the time players are done at SAC they are not even remotely close to what they were coming out of primary school.  With what ever little time he has with them Grovy does put in work on making them better.  I used to witness some of the session and if I was a bit more disciplined would have joined but i wasn't interested in reaching to school 6 am for practice.  So he certainly plays a big role in them developing into ballers that can move on and continue to improve.  One of his strengths has always been enhancing whatever raw tools players have so that should they have interest in football as a career they are better prepared to attempt to do so.

Offline Coop's

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Re: The benefits of the SSFL
« Reply #54 on: December 06, 2011, 09:51:21 PM »
I have sat back and read most of all the comments and one clear distinction is missing.  Let's be honest, Grovy not necessarily developing players at St. Anthony's, he merely recruits them.  That's what the high schools do now recruit.  It started with Sando Tech.  I would like to know how many of the top players in the SSFL playing with pro clubs and on the national youth teams? 

Allyuh really think Kenny Thomas develop Jerren Nixon or Grovy develop Kenwyn Jones?  Really?  Now, did they have a hand in their development, yes, but I'll argue the clubs and the jr national teams had a lot more influence. 

When I played in the SSFL in the late 80's early 90's, by that time I would say my most meaningful training sessions and development took place "training" with the national team.  Was I good enough to play with the starting eleven or even make the national youth teams, (probably/probably not) but I've always said Ronald Alexis (Eggs) was tough but the best coach I've ever had fundamentally.  He coached me for 2 years with the national U13 and U14 teams.  National team training sessions, playing and training with the best brings out the best in you.

All this to say, I agree, from a strictly development standpoint the SSFL is not the best place but it does give the players a platform to perform.  The people in the know (national team coaches and fellow players) knew about Dwight Yorke before Signal Hill but the avg person did not.  SSFL gave him the platform to be seen and thus he took off. 

We have got to go back to having zonal youth teams to provide sufficient coaching (similar to ODP in the US) and from that development they can go on to the national teams.  This will allow for a broader pool of players to be coached effectively.  Bottom line is we technically had the structure in the past but it appears somewhere along the line we lost it.

Hoss you talkin rell shit!!  Nuff man pass straight into St. Anthony's and join the team.  Of course there are players that come over from other schools and such but to claim de man eh developing players and only recruits shows yuh either rell ignorant or don't want to give credit where it is due.  Ask players who played for SAC and you'd be hard pressed to find any that would say he was not instrumental in their development.  Apart from that he is also part of the National youth setup so to make it seem as if that is where they develop then yuh still have to give Grovy some of that credit.  So Eggs was ah bess coach buh Grovy is just a recruiter ent.  Steups allyuh does talk shit fuh talkin it sake oui.  I guess it must be a coincidence that in the last 2 decades and counting dat so much SAC men does feature on the national teams from Jrs to seniors.
You're a tad agressive in your beliefs aren't you?   
No, I think you're taking what I'm saying way out of context.  Not saying that Grovy is not a good coach, at least I don't believe I said that.  In fact, I'd go on record as saying he is an outstanding coach, so is Grayson from Gustine, Spicer from Eldo, etc.  A high school coach (please educate me if I'm incorrect), has access to the kids in the summer and fall...you really think that is development?  Really? All I am saying is that it takes years to develop players and simply playing SSFL eh go make yuh good.  In addition by that time it's already too late.   
       What do we have in T&T that makes or will make our players develope?how many Academys/Coaching schools we have,Clubs don't have much time for Youth Football,the schools not good enough for developing players,scrap Minor League Football.

Offline fishs

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Re: The benefits of the SSFL
« Reply #55 on: December 07, 2011, 04:14:54 AM »

 Times change and things change.
In the all over the country there used to be leagues that kids played in from 8yrolds to 16yrolds.
The biggest was the Eddie Hart league and the teams were negihborhood based with the coachs being somebody's father or big brother, practice used to be a knock about and a game in the local savanha during the week.
Yuh learn how to trap a ball and kick and pass the ball, not much else.
The thing was participation was so massive that enough talent emerged to interest the games masters of most schools and the better kids were encouraged to get into those.
From there a level of formal coaching began from the u14 level, by the time you hit 6th form and playing in the first team the standard of play was relatively high (relative to playing club).
Now and then you would get a player coming into 6th form from a next school but generally you were in the same team with guys for 5 to 7 years so a unique understanding developed.
In the case of Benedicts and Technical (early 70's) they did not have that same development but they were made up of some of the best youth talent in Trinidad.
Nowadays the schools are more like clubs almost buying and selling players for the prize and occasionally outstanding players emerge.
To me the passion, standard and skill level has deteriorated overall but 1 or 2 schools every year would produce a standout team (like St Anthony's this year).
So in the past when there were 8 teams making up the College's league and every year you looking forward to seeing certain players from every team develop, now schools either emerging all of a sudden from obscurity or the better known teams getting walloped out of existence (Tranqullity, Belmont,Pleasantville ) There are still some benefits but whether the league has any significance or relevance to national football is dubious
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