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Offline Observer

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World Club Championship
« on: December 18, 2011, 06:38:02 AM »
Santos were completly outclassed. IMHO  in my 50+ years I have never seen  football like that. I eh care if Barca ever win another trophy, they have thoroughly entertained me and kept jogo bonito alive.
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giggsy11

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Re: World Club Championship
« Reply #1 on: December 18, 2011, 06:53:18 AM »
Barca was very impressive, they just focused on playing football which made them enjoyable to watch. Alves is a beast!

Neymar =CRonaldo against Barca! He aint reach yet!

I would love tuh see Santos play in Europe just tuh see how dey would make out, they have some good skillful players!

Offline Mango Chow!

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Re: World Club Championship
« Reply #2 on: December 18, 2011, 07:59:27 AM »
Barca was very impressive, they just focused on playing football which made them enjoyable to watch. Alves is a beast!

Neymar =CRonaldo against Barca! He aint reach yet!

I would love tuh see Santos play in Europe just tuh see how dey would make out, they have some good skillful players!

I don't even think cronaldo is ready yet, either.  He could run up his stats, do all the crossovers and little entertaining flicks and back-heels he wants to, but he is simply (mentally) not the type of player that makes these Barca players and this Barca team as great as they are.  Watching this team is watching history being made. metronaldo, IMHO, needs to become more cerebral, less flashy and less selfish to really turn what is unmistakeable talent into a craft.  I think in his own mind, he tries too, too hard to be "The Best" but he really doesn't know how.  If Neymar goes to Barca, he will fit right in.


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giggsy11

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Re: World Club Championship
« Reply #3 on: December 18, 2011, 08:22:14 AM »
Barca was very impressive, they just focused on playing football which made them enjoyable to watch. Alves is a beast!

Neymar =CRonaldo against Barca! He aint reach yet!

I would love tuh see Santos play in Europe just tuh see how dey would make out, they have some good skillful players!

I don't even think cronaldo is ready yet, either.  He could run up his stats, do all the crossovers and little entertaining flicks and back-heels he wants to, but he is simply (mentally) not the type of player that makes these Barca players and this Barca team as great as they are.  Watching this team is watching history being made. metronaldo, IMHO, needs to become more cerebral, less flashy and less selfish to really turn what is unmistakeable talent into a craft.  I think in his own mind, he tries too, too hard to be "The Best" but he really doesn't know how.  If Neymar goes to Barca, he will fit right in.

Yeah ah think Ronaldo performing tuh keep up with Messi or to better him when they play each other and it appears he psych's himself out. Messi on the other hand just continues to do what he does no matter who he playing against.

Offline elan

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Re: World Club Championship
« Reply #4 on: December 18, 2011, 08:28:04 AM »
Neymar not even on the same planet as Dani Alves, much less Messi. Stueps.
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Offline elan

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Re: World Club Championship
« Reply #5 on: December 18, 2011, 08:31:24 AM »
Santos in kindergarten right now, Barca teaching them they ABC's
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Offline elan

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Re: World Club Championship
« Reply #6 on: December 18, 2011, 08:33:14 AM »
WTF boy, I watching ah replay  :cursing:

That games was rel early in trute.  :-[     Anyway I enjoying it like it live.
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Offline asylumseeker

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Re: World Club Championship
« Reply #7 on: December 18, 2011, 09:37:22 AM »
Santos were completly outclassed. IMHO  in my 50+ years I have never seen  football like that. I eh care if Barca ever win another trophy, they have thoroughly entertained me and kept jogo bonito alive.

Share more nah.

Any thoughts on the typical speed of the Brazilian game (league) and Santos' lack of adjustment ... inability to adjust to a faster opponent (thought and speed)? It seems like a pedestrian Santos would have problems with a couple other teams in Europe ... they were ponderous on the ball and out of sorts collectively off of it.

Offline Observer

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Re: World Club Championship
« Reply #8 on: December 18, 2011, 02:21:27 PM »
Santos were completly outclassed. IMHO  in my 50+ years I have never seen  football like that. I eh care if Barca ever win another trophy, they have thoroughly entertained me and kept jogo bonito alive.

Share more nah.

Any thoughts on the typical speed of the Brazilian game (league) and Santos' lack of adjustment ... inability to adjust to a faster opponent (thought and speed)? It seems like a pedestrian Santos would have problems with a couple other teams in Europe ... they were ponderous on the ball and out of sorts collectively off of it.


I will have to agree with you on how Santos looked. Honestly, I think a kind of "football shock hit them" early in the game. It was if in the first 15 minutes they realize they had no chance. They came to play counter attack football, but were so dominated. and saw so little possession that they looked a confused team. At half time they showed Neymar in the tunnel and he had a bewildered look.
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Offline asylumseeker

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Re: World Club Championship
« Reply #9 on: December 18, 2011, 02:24:54 PM »
Ah wonder boy ... will this hasten Neymar's move to Europe?

Offline elan

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Re: World Club Championship
« Reply #10 on: December 18, 2011, 06:02:06 PM »
Ah wonder boy ... will this hasten Neymar's move to Europe?

Nope, his inability to make "instant" decision was highlighted. He was caught in possession to often in critical position on the field. Maybe he need to go to a reserve team or on loan to a spanish team to develop his decision making ability. Right now he could not even replace Malouda or Kalou, much less for a Drogba. Even Sturridge, is ahead of him tactically.

Maybe this comes from the strategy employed by the coach to deal with Barcelona, however, in idividual situations he was very lacking of the sophistication, spontainiety, and decisiveness on the ball. To put out all that money on a "potential" top player is kinda hard in these times (also you can thank Robinho, Vela (?), etc for this).
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giggsy11

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Re: World Club Championship
« Reply #11 on: December 18, 2011, 06:17:42 PM »
I think Neymar would benefit from playing in a side where he is not the focal point or the star of the show. I think it will help him to develop his overall game because he would not be allowed to over indulge as well as be cuddled!

Offline Raul

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Re: World Club Championship
« Reply #12 on: December 18, 2011, 06:39:31 PM »
Ah wonder boy ... will this hasten Neymar's move to Europe?

I hope so, and I hope since Barca beat up his ego, he might choose Madrid instead...  ;)

Offline Bitter

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Re: World Club Championship
« Reply #13 on: December 19, 2011, 01:24:56 PM »
I think Barca overwhelmed Santos and thus Neymar. If they could had switched sides at half time, I wonder what would have been. I'm not saying Neymar is the world's greatest player, but we've seen Messi play a few times now for Argentina and look a little bit more like Super Grover than Superman. Argentina's coaching issues notwithstanding.


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Offline elan

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Re: World Club Championship
« Reply #14 on: December 19, 2011, 05:22:04 PM »
I think Barca overwhelmed Santos and thus Neymar. If they could had switched sides at half time, I wonder what would have been. I'm not saying Neymar is the world's greatest player, but we've seen Messi play a few times now for Argentina and look a little bit more like Super Grover than Superman. Argentina's coaching issues notwithstanding.




Yeah but forget the team and look at Neymar himself.
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Offline Peong

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Re: World Club Championship
« Reply #15 on: December 19, 2011, 05:34:07 PM »
Ah wonder boy ... will this hasten Neymar's move to Europe?

Nope, his inability to make "instant" decision was highlighted. He was caught in possession to often in critical position on the field. Maybe he need to go to a reserve team or on loan to a spanish team to develop his decision making ability. Right now he could not even replace Malouda or Kalou, much less for a Drogba. Even Sturridge, is ahead of him tactically.

Maybe this comes from the strategy employed by the coach to deal with Barcelona, however, in idividual situations he was very lacking of the sophistication, spontainiety, and decisiveness on the ball. To put out all that money on a "potential" top player is kinda hard in these times (also you can thank Robinho, Vela (?), etc for this).

So Neymar has 1 poor game and suddenly he not good enough for a top team?  Good luck wit dat.

giggsy11

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Re: World Club Championship
« Reply #16 on: December 19, 2011, 06:00:02 PM »
Ah wonder boy ... will this hasten Neymar's move to Europe?

Nope, his inability to make "instant" decision was highlighted. He was caught in possession to often in critical position on the field. Maybe he need to go to a reserve team or on loan to a spanish team to develop his decision making ability. Right now he could not even replace Malouda or Kalou, much less for a Drogba. Even Sturridge, is ahead of him tactically. Maybe this comes from the strategy employed by the coach to deal with Barcelona, however, in idividual situations he was very lacking of the sophistication, spontainiety, and decisiveness on the ball. To put out all that money on a "potential" top player is kinda hard in these times (also you can thank Robinho, Vela (?), etc for this).

Come nah Elan-you can't be serious about saying Neymar would not be able to replace a Malouda or Kalou. I bet if Santos wanted tuh swap Neymar for both off dem yuh wouldn't say no. Kalou has failed to develop as a footballer, Malouda continues to go backward and you saying dey better? Neymar has more talent in his shin pad than both put together! I would take him over Sturrdige who selfish as sh!te and you saying Neymar lacking in his decision making? I must say Sturridge has improved to the point he is using his right foot more but he still have plenty to learn when it comes to knowing when tuh pass versus shoot. If Capello could he would take Neymar to the Euros over Sturridge. Merry Xmas!

Offline asylumseeker

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Re: World Club Championship
« Reply #17 on: December 19, 2011, 07:37:24 PM »
Ah wonder boy ... will this hasten Neymar's move to Europe?

Nope, his inability to make "instant" decision was highlighted. He was caught in possession to often in critical position on the field. Maybe he need to go to a reserve team or on loan to a spanish team to develop his decision making ability. Right now he could not even replace Malouda or Kalou, much less for a Drogba. Even Sturridge, is ahead of him tactically.

Maybe this comes from the strategy employed by the coach to deal with Barcelona, however, in idividual situations he was very lacking of the sophistication, spontainiety, and decisiveness on the ball. To put out all that money on a "potential" top player is kinda hard in these times (also you can thank Robinho, Vela (?), etc for this).


Elan, I too think you're being harsh. But first let me say, in the interest of full disclosure, that I stated the following on another thread with respect to Neymar:

I am on the verge of being the heretic in this Neymar worship .. for a couple reasons, but I'll reserve comment until I see this sequence in total context. Meantime, I'll say what allyuh watching dey is the irreverence of youth and youthful exuberance, not genius.

But before ah get there, permit me a lil unfinished business ... on the same thread from the quote above, Dinho went:

...
The difference for me is that you can't overlook the tactical value of an in-game beat like that, or class it the same as something like a backheel penalty.

When Neymar carry them 2 men down in that corner and deal wid dem, is one of 2 things happening after.. Them men will back off of him not wishing to get twist up again, or they will come in wild to try to teach him a lesson. What this does is give Neymar an advantage because he has won the individual battle against his opponent, and in addition he has upset the other team's defensive formation.


I have no issues with a team running up goals.

Now a backheel penalty in my opinion is just assness with no tangible value to the game, but that is just the way I see it. I respect that others appreciate that.

That was in September. However, in July he went:

Let Neymar stay whey he is or, let him go Real or one ah dem other teams.

Based on what I see so far, it have no way that nashy lil "starbwoy" youth going and survive in England.

All he wanna do when he get de ball is beat, like he feel is Eddie Hart.
No amount ah beat go cut it in the EPL, i prefer we bring in a proven clinical finisher like Falcao and run with that than try to pay all dat money for Neymar and then hope he grow a brain.

Yet, for some reason he had difficulty digesting the notion of youthful exuberance.  ??? [Dinho ah know yuh could handle yuh stories, so come wid it ... ah just inserted that to contextualize what ah about tuh raise wid Elan]

Elan, yuh raise nuff interesting points ... I'll start at the last one.

1. Good point regarding Vela and Robinho. I won't quibble ... but I think not only has Robinho's redemption been more successful than Vela's ... Robinho circumstances were more related to temperament and acculturation than to a mismatching of price with pedigree. Not to mention actual accomplishments and individual accolades in which the gap between Vela and Robinho might also be distorted. Anyhow, like ah say ... credible point.

2. Ramalho's tactics: agree with Observer that the counterattacking expectation they had got hit for six ... whatever they tried proved futile ... Santos attempted to play like I've seen them attempt in the past ... but lehwe recall that they were not convincing in the away leg of the Libertadores final ... and at home, some of the personnel on the field were notably different from what Ramalho used in the World Clubs final game (for instance, it was Arouca's hard work that assisted in exploiting Penarol in the Libertadores ... I doh recall him being on the field in this final ... also Elano's substitution was effectively meaningless ... whereas, Elano was prominent v. Penarol as a starter ...)

Plus, Borges was off (this man had a head of steam in recent months but he couldn't convert or combine with Neymar effectively in the final of this tournament ... go figure, it ent only about Neymar). Borges converting anyone of of those opportunities could have changed the status quo of the game.

3. Now down to the nitty gritty ... Neymar is a finisher ... de fella can finish ... he wasn't a finisher in the final of this tournament, but I've seen enough of him to know he is a finisher ... ah cyah tell yuh what accounted fuh him being off on the day ... but the psychological component seems to have been a factor. I cyah mash up de man resume on just this showing. Yuh cyah throw de baby out with de bathwater.

I agree he was not decisive ... I think he wasn't his instinctive self ... Neymar is a rhythm player and well ... Santos had none, but he kept trying to get some minimal reward out of the game even at 3-0 (almost manically too for pride) ... In the past I've seen him change a game against the run of play ... he might have been feeling the pressure to perform for Pep and Mourinho? and the eyes of others.

4. He doh need no reserve team ... he could be a factor on a major team ... if Lukaku could be at Chelsea ... who is Neymar?
« Last Edit: December 19, 2011, 08:22:29 PM by asylumseeker »

Offline Bitter

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Re: World Club Championship
« Reply #18 on: December 19, 2011, 09:35:12 PM »
I think Barca overwhelmed Santos and thus Neymar. If they could had switched sides at half time, I wonder what would have been. I'm not saying Neymar is the world's greatest player, but we've seen Messi play a few times now for Argentina and look a little bit more like Super Grover than Superman. Argentina's coaching issues notwithstanding.




Yeah but forget the team and look at Neymar himself.

I never think you can look at a player's performance in isolation. The other team is usually out there trying to counter what you doing.
I just play a game this w/e vs a guy who plays for us when his other team is idle. Normally he does the running and a next fella who have skills and reads the game well sits in the middle of the field and breaks up anything coming through. So what we do, we work to isolate the runner and make the skills man come further up the field to become a play-maker and then exploit the space behind him. The skills man knows what we're doing, but still has to move up otherwise he'll sit back and absorb pressure for the whole game and we will wear them down.

We were commenting after, we knew we won the game when he had to start coming forward.  Does that mean the runner is a bad player? No. When he plays for us, we have a better midfield, and better defense. If you double-team him or try to work him into a corner, we have players who can make you pay. If the other team had another play maker, then we have to play them both straight-up and then the runner would be talking about how he was making mas and running rings around us.

Yes, I know. Cool story bro.

Point is, due to injuries, Barca had no recognized strikers in that game, it was 7 midfielders. 5 of them attacking/creative. Santos play 3-5-2, but quickly ended up setting up in their defensive third, which puts 15 players in front of your goal. with Neymar and Borges hoping to get something coming out of the mixer to then have to go all the way to the other side of the field, with Barca pressing all the way.  I don't know which player you put in that situation who comes out looking good.

This game, to me was more a statement of how much further ahead Barca was. I think Santos was the #2 team in the tournament, but it was a distant 2nd.
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Offline elan

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Re: World Club Championship
« Reply #19 on: December 19, 2011, 09:57:15 PM »
I think Barca overwhelmed Santos and thus Neymar. If they could had switched sides at half time, I wonder what would have been. I'm not saying Neymar is the world's greatest player, but we've seen Messi play a few times now for Argentina and look a little bit more like Super Grover than Superman. Argentina's coaching issues notwithstanding.




Yeah but forget the team and look at Neymar himself.

I never think you can look at a player's performance in isolation. The other team is usually out there trying to counter what you doing.
I just play a game this w/e vs a guy who plays for us when his other team is idle. Normally he does the running and a next fella who have skills and reads the game well sits in the middle of the field and breaks up anything coming through. So what we do, we work to isolate the runner and make the skills man come further up the field to become a play-maker and then exploit the space behind him. The skills man knows what we're doing, but still has to move up otherwise he'll sit back and absorb pressure for the whole game and we will wear them down.

We were commenting after, we knew we won the game when he had to start coming forward.  Does that mean the runner is a bad player? No. When he plays for us, we have a better midfield, and better defense. If you double-team him or try to work him into a corner, we have players who can make you pay. If the other team had another play maker, then we have to play them both straight-up and then the runner would be talking about how he was making mas and running rings around us.

Yes, I know. Cool story bro.

Point is, due to injuries, Barca had no recognized strikers in that game, it was 7 midfielders. 5 of them attacking/creative. Santos play 3-5-2, but quickly ended up setting up in their defensive third, which puts 15 players in front of your goal. with Neymar and Borges hoping to get something coming out of the mixer to then have to go all the way to the other side of the field, with Barca pressing all the way.  I don't know which player you put in that situation who comes out looking good.

This game, to me was more a statement of how much further ahead Barca was. I think Santos was the #2 team in the tournament, but it was a distant 2nd.

You must look at a player in isolation (fitness, technique, tactical understanding and application, maturity), as you are look at a player and not a team. How that player will fit in with your team and idea for your team. Therefore it's imperative that a great amount of attention must be paid to player in "isolation ------> the individual as part of the team.
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Offline elan

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Re: World Club Championship
« Reply #20 on: December 19, 2011, 09:59:25 PM »
Ah wonder boy ... will this hasten Neymar's move to Europe?

Nope, his inability to make "instant" decision was highlighted. He was caught in possession to often in critical position on the field. Maybe he need to go to a reserve team or on loan to a spanish team to develop his decision making ability. Right now he could not even replace Malouda or Kalou, much less for a Drogba. Even Sturridge, is ahead of him tactically.

Maybe this comes from the strategy employed by the coach to deal with Barcelona, however, in idividual situations he was very lacking of the sophistication, spontainiety, and decisiveness on the ball. To put out all that money on a "potential" top player is kinda hard in these times (also you can thank Robinho, Vela (?), etc for this).


Elan, I too think you're being harsh. But first let me say, in the interest of full disclosure, that I stated the following on another thread with respect to Neymar:

I am on the verge of being the heretic in this Neymar worship .. for a couple reasons, but I'll reserve comment until I see this sequence in total context. Meantime, I'll say what allyuh watching dey is the irreverence of youth and youthful exuberance, not genius.

But before ah get there, permit me a lil unfinished business ... on the same thread from the quote above, Dinho went:

...
The difference for me is that you can't overlook the tactical value of an in-game beat like that, or class it the same as something like a backheel penalty.

When Neymar carry them 2 men down in that corner and deal wid dem, is one of 2 things happening after.. Them men will back off of him not wishing to get twist up again, or they will come in wild to try to teach him a lesson. What this does is give Neymar an advantage because he has won the individual battle against his opponent, and in addition he has upset the other team's defensive formation.


I have no issues with a team running up goals.

Now a backheel penalty in my opinion is just assness with no tangible value to the game, but that is just the way I see it. I respect that others appreciate that.

That was in September. However, in July he went:

Let Neymar stay whey he is or, let him go Real or one ah dem other teams.

Based on what I see so far, it have no way that nashy lil "starbwoy" youth going and survive in England.

All he wanna do when he get de ball is beat, like he feel is Eddie Hart.
No amount ah beat go cut it in the EPL, i prefer we bring in a proven clinical finisher like Falcao and run with that than try to pay all dat money for Neymar and then hope he grow a brain.

Yet, for some reason he had difficulty digesting the notion of youthful exuberance.  ??? [Dinho ah know yuh could handle yuh stories, so come wid it ... ah just inserted that to contextualize what ah about tuh raise wid Elan]

Elan, yuh raise nuff interesting points ... I'll start at the last one.

1. Good point regarding Vela and Robinho. I won't quibble ... but I think not only has Robinho's redemption been more successful than Vela's ... Robinho circumstances were more related to temperament and acculturation than to a mismatching of price with pedigree. Not to mention actual accomplishments and individual accolades in which the gap between Vela and Robinho might also be distorted. Anyhow, like ah say ... credible point.

2. Ramalho's tactics: agree with Observer that the counterattacking expectation they had got hit for six ... whatever they tried proved futile ... Santos attempted to play like I've seen them attempt in the past ... but lehwe recall that they were not convincing in the away leg of the Libertadores final ... and at home, some of the personnel on the field were notably different from what Ramalho used in the World Clubs final game (for instance, it was Arouca's hard work that assisted in exploiting Penarol in the Libertadores ... I doh recall him being on the field in this final ... also Elano's substitution was effectively meaningless ... whereas, Elano was prominent v. Penarol as a starter ...)

Plus, Borges was off (this man had a head of steam in recent months but he couldn't convert or combine with Neymar effectively in the final of this tournament ... go figure, it ent only about Neymar). Borges converting anyone of of those opportunities could have changed the status quo of the game.

3. Now down to the nitty gritty ... Neymar is a finisher ... de fella can finish ... he wasn't a finisher in the final of this tournament, but I've seen enough of him to know he is a finisher ... ah cyah tell yuh what accounted fuh him being off on the day ... but the psychological component seems to have been a factor. I cyah mash up de man resume on just this showing. Yuh cyah throw de baby out with de bathwater.

I agree he was not decisive ... I think he wasn't his instinctive self ... Neymar is a rhythm player and well ... Santos had none, but he kept trying to get some minimal reward out of the game even at 3-0 (almost manically too for pride) ... In the past I've seen him change a game against the run of play ... he might have been feeling the pressure to perform for Pep and Mourinho? and the eyes of others.

4. He doh need no reserve team ... he could be a factor on a major team ... if Lukaku could be at Chelsea ... who is Neymar?

Appreciate it.

Yeah after reading back what I wrote, I was harsh.
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Offline Bitter

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Re: World Club Championship
« Reply #21 on: December 19, 2011, 11:21:15 PM »
You must look at a player in isolation (fitness, technique, tactical understanding and application, maturity), as you are look at a player and not a team. How that player will fit in with your team and idea for your team. Therefore it's imperative that a great amount of attention must be paid to player in "isolation ------> the individual as part of the team.

Ok.  :beermug:
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Offline Observer

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Re: World Club Championship
« Reply #22 on: December 20, 2011, 07:25:26 AM »
No player can be judged on one match, regardless of the importance of that match. Neymar is very young, very talented, but the moment the environment at Santos caters to him (wrapped in cotton). Him going to one of the big clubs in Europe won't help him, especially if that club shows little interest in being patient with the player's development. Neymar himself also has to be patient and willing to learn. Ronaldo at the same age was better than Neymar in every respect, he went to PSV, learned, adapted and the rest is history. Compare Ronaldo to Robinho and you will see what I am trying to say.
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Offline dinho

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Re: World Club Championship
« Reply #23 on: December 20, 2011, 07:50:14 AM »

But before ah get there, permit me a lil unfinished business ... on the same thread from the quote above, Dinho went:

...
The difference for me is that you can't overlook the tactical value of an in-game beat like that, or class it the same as something like a backheel penalty.

When Neymar carry them 2 men down in that corner and deal wid dem, is one of 2 things happening after.. Them men will back off of him not wishing to get twist up again, or they will come in wild to try to teach him a lesson. What this does is give Neymar an advantage because he has won the individual battle against his opponent, and in addition he has upset the other team's defensive formation.


I have no issues with a team running up goals.

Now a backheel penalty in my opinion is just assness with no tangible value to the game, but that is just the way I see it. I respect that others appreciate that.

That was in September. However, in July he went:

Let Neymar stay whey he is or, let him go Real or one ah dem other teams.

Based on what I see so far, it have no way that nashy lil "starbwoy" youth going and survive in England.

All he wanna do when he get de ball is beat, like he feel is Eddie Hart.
No amount ah beat go cut it in the EPL, i prefer we bring in a proven clinical finisher like Falcao and run with that than try to pay all dat money for Neymar and then hope he grow a brain.

Yet, for some reason he had difficulty digesting the notion of youthful exuberance.  ??? [Dinho ah know yuh could handle yuh stories, so come wid it ... ah just inserted that to contextualize what ah about tuh raise wid Elan]


Come on nuh asylum, better than that.. You trying to put words in my mouth or what?

You of all people should appreciate the importance of context. The first post you quoted was from a thread about beatsing and showmanship, where i was talking about why gallery thing have more in game value than a backheel penalty.. And i just threw out Neymar's name as an example of a gallery man in today's game. No kinda lauding or assessment of the player, just a reference to a player who would likely be the best example of showmanship in a game. I could've just as easily said Denilson.

The second post you quoted was from the Copa America tournament thread, where he looked ineffective to me in the Brazil setup, and this is where i was offering my opinion of the player.. I was also discussing Chelsea's interest in him, stating that i didn't think (and still don't think) he develop his game properly at Chelsea or in the EPL as a whole.. His game is more suited to the Spanish league as far as I see it.

I still on the same page bro, my tune aint change regarding Neymar. Imo he have a long way to go to to make a claim to all the unnecessary plaudits he getting. And staying at Santos not gonna help him to get there.
« Last Edit: December 20, 2011, 07:55:20 AM by dinho »
         

Offline Bitter

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Re: World Club Championship
« Reply #24 on: December 20, 2011, 09:08:22 AM »
Try and ignore the music...

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Offline soccerman

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Re: World Club Championship
« Reply #25 on: December 20, 2011, 12:18:59 PM »
Try and ignore the music...

Allyuh men like shit eh  :D

Offline asylumseeker

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Re: World Club Championship
« Reply #26 on: December 20, 2011, 02:21:21 PM »

But before ah get there, permit me a lil unfinished business ... on the same thread from the quote above, Dinho went:

...
The difference for me is that you can't overlook the tactical value of an in-game beat like that, or class it the same as something like a backheel penalty.

When Neymar carry them 2 men down in that corner and deal wid dem, is one of 2 things happening after.. Them men will back off of him not wishing to get twist up again, or they will come in wild to try to teach him a lesson. What this does is give Neymar an advantage because he has won the individual battle against his opponent, and in addition he has upset the other team's defensive formation.


I have no issues with a team running up goals.

Now a backheel penalty in my opinion is just assness with no tangible value to the game, but that is just the way I see it. I respect that others appreciate that.

That was in September. However, in July he went:

Let Neymar stay whey he is or, let him go Real or one ah dem other teams.

Based on what I see so far, it have no way that nashy lil "starbwoy" youth going and survive in England.

All he wanna do when he get de ball is beat, like he feel is Eddie Hart.
No amount ah beat go cut it in the EPL, i prefer we bring in a proven clinical finisher like Falcao and run with that than try to pay all dat money for Neymar and then hope he grow a brain.

Yet, for some reason he had difficulty digesting the notion of youthful exuberance.  ??? [Dinho ah know yuh could handle yuh stories, so come wid it ... ah just inserted that to contextualize what ah about tuh raise wid Elan]


Come on nuh asylum, better than that.. You trying to put words in my mouth or what?

You of all people should appreciate the importance of context. The first post you quoted was from a thread about beatsing and showmanship, where i was talking about why gallery thing have more in game value than a backheel penalty.. And i just threw out Neymar's name as an example of a gallery man in today's game. No kinda lauding or assessment of the player, just a reference to a player who would likely be the best example of showmanship in a game. I could've just as easily said Denilson.

The second post you quoted was from the Copa America tournament thread, where he looked ineffective to me in the Brazil setup, and this is where i was offering my opinion of the player.. I was also discussing Chelsea's interest in him, stating that i didn't think (and still don't think) he develop his game properly at Chelsea or in the EPL as a whole.. His game is more suited to the Spanish league as far as I see it.

I still on the same page bro, my tune aint change regarding Neymar. Imo he have a long way to go to to make a claim to all the unnecessary plaudits he getting. And staying at Santos not gonna help him to get there.

Well done, Dinho. Wha'ever yuh drinking :beermug: is on me.

Offline Fyzoman

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Re: World Club Championship
« Reply #27 on: December 20, 2011, 07:42:06 PM »
Ah wonder boy ... will this hasten Neymar's move to Europe?

Nope, his inability to make "instant" decision was highlighted. He was caught in possession to often in critical position on the field. Maybe he need to go to a reserve team or on loan to a spanish team to develop his decision making ability. Right now he could not even replace Malouda or Kalou, much less for a Drogba. Even Sturridge, is ahead of him tactically.

Maybe this comes from the strategy employed by the coach to deal with Barcelona, however, in idividual situations he was very lacking of the sophistication, spontainiety, and decisiveness on the ball. To put out all that money on a "potential" top player is kinda hard in these times (also you can thank Robinho, Vela (?), etc for this).

So Neymar has 1 poor game and suddenly he not good enough for a top team?  Good luck wit dat.

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Offline elan

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Re: World Club Championship
« Reply #28 on: December 20, 2011, 10:03:47 PM »
Ah wonder boy ... will this hasten Neymar's move to Europe?

Nope, his inability to make "instant" decision was highlighted. He was caught in possession to often in critical position on the field. Maybe he need to go to a reserve team or on loan to a spanish team to develop his decision making ability. Right now he could not even replace Malouda or Kalou, much less for a Drogba. Even Sturridge, is ahead of him tactically.

Maybe this comes from the strategy employed by the coach to deal with Barcelona, however, in idividual situations he was very lacking of the sophistication, spontainiety, and decisiveness on the ball. To put out all that money on a "potential" top player is kinda hard in these times (also you can thank Robinho, Vela (?), etc for this).

So Neymar has 1 poor game and suddenly he not good enough for a top team?  Good luck wit dat.

Thank you Peong!!!!!

True what you say, but hear what, "It matters not what you can do, if you cannot do it when it matters".

He will be good for a top team, but I think his stock fell a bit and now he probably lost a a bit of leverage. Clubs who want him should put some pressure on him to make a move away from Santos, as they showed that they cannot do much more for him.


Here's a question, what if Barca had lost and Messi did not show up, what would have been the headlines in the press?
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Offline asylumseeker

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Re: World Club Championship
« Reply #29 on: December 21, 2011, 02:41:26 AM »
The question that seems to pop up in all this is: when does a player transitioning from the Campeonato Brasileiro need to spend time @ a feeder club? I mentioned Lukaku but, in fairness to Elan, Lukaku had Anderlecht. Ronaldinho had PSG, Ronaldo had PSV. Alternatively, Kaka and Pato strolled directly to Milan. Anderson's arrival @ Old Trafford was preceded by a very brief stint @ Porto. Allyuh could come up with other examples and case studies. What's realistic?

 

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