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Offline Flex

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TTFA Debt Thread
« on: February 11, 2012, 02:41:16 PM »
No Govt $$ to clear TTFF debt
By CLINT CHAN TACK (newsday)


SPORTS MINISTER Anil Roberts was adamant yesterday that not one red cent of taxpayers’ money will be used to pay a $4.2 million debt owed to 13 members of the 2006 Soca Warriors team by the Trinidad and Tobago Football Federation (TTFF).

Roberts rejected calls for the establishment of an interim football association, saying TT would be banned from world football by FIFA if it did that.

He also gave the assurance that funding for this country’s Under 17 and Under 23 football teams will come directly from the ministry and they will not suffer as result of the dispute between the TTFF and the players.

Speaking with Newsday following the adjournment of the House of Representatives, Roberts declared: “Taxpayers money will not be used to pay any debt of any national sporting organisation whether it is the football association, the archery association or swimming.

“That is not going to happen. The TTFF is an autonomous body. The taxpayers have no legitimate responsibility to repay any monies that were owed. If they are calling upon the minister and the ministry to take taxpayers money to pay a debt owed by some organisation, that will never happen,” he said.

Saying he could not get involved in the matter because it is sub-judice, Roberts said, “The wheels of justice are turning. The law is the law. The players have their judgment in hand and they have to do, what they have to do. “Nobody is above the law and they have to follow their process.”

He rejected former national defender Brent Sancho’s call for him to launch an investigation into this matter.

“The powers of investigation fall within the remit of the Commissioner of Police, the Integrity Commission, these legal bodies,” Roberts explained.

On calls for the creation of an interim football federation to temporarily replace the TTFF,

Roberts declared: “That cannot be done. TT will be banned from football from FIFA for governmental interference.”

Saying many people had the misconception that the TTFF would get “a blank cheque” because former FIFA vice-president Jack Warner is a government minister,

Roberts suggested Sancho advise the federation’s membership to read the TTFF’s constitution and see what redress they can obtain.

He said the Under23 and Under 17 football teams “ will continue to get funding going through the Olympics but the ministry will pay the invoices directly.”
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Offline weary1969

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Re: No Govt $$ to clear TTFF debt.
« Reply #1 on: February 11, 2012, 03:17:32 PM »
Thanks 4 clearing that up.
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Offline Brownsugar

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Re: No Govt $$ to clear TTFF debt.
« Reply #2 on: February 11, 2012, 03:27:46 PM »
Steups!!!  and in other news dog bites man...... ::)
"...If yuh clothes tear up
Or yuh shoes burst off,
You could still jump up when music play.
Old lady, young baby, everybody could dingolay...
Dingolay, ay, ay, ay ay,
Dingolay ay, ay, ay..."

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Offline Football supporter

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Re: No Govt $$ to clear TTFF debt.
« Reply #3 on: February 11, 2012, 07:57:34 PM »
He rejected former national defender Brent Sancho’s call for him to launch an investigation into this matter.

“The powers of investigation fall within the remit of the Commissioner of Police, the Integrity Commission, these legal bodies,” Roberts explained.


So wait.....any government ministry that discovers that over $100 million of taxpayers has gone missing, maybe even stolen cannot investigate within its own Ministry? A simple check with their bank would tell them into which account the money went. From public documents they could then see if that money appeared in TTFF or LOC2006 accounts (Anil, let me save you the time....it didn't)

Is Roberts seriously saying that once an organisation is fighting a court case, no one else can sue them or investigate them? Is he mad?

This kind of  :bs: from a Minister should see him kicked out. Kamla is supposed to be a lawyer, even she would know this is not correct case law. 

Offline Tallman

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TTFA Debt Thread
« Reply #4 on: September 01, 2013, 11:42:31 AM »
T&T Football Association $25m in debt
By Asha Javeed


Football, the sport, is a business.

You might not believe it though, given Trinidad and Tobago’s interface with the sport—from the sporadically publicised regional tournaments which the teams participate in, to the lengthy legal battle by the Soca Warriors to get the money due to them for their 2006 World Cup appearance, to the politicising of the sport by its former national adviser and FIFA vice-president Jack Warner who resigned from the Government in April after the disclosure of the contents of  football body Concacaf’s Integrity Committee which detailed allegations of financial mismanagement by Warner and former Concacaf general secretary Chuck Blazer.

Today, the local football business is in debt—$25 million of it. 

The Trinidad and Tobago Football Association (TTFA) now has a triple challenge ahead...to reconcile the $25 million debt, to rebuild its image away from Warner’s shadow and to function as a proper business.

For now, the TTFA has no corporate sponsors or business partners. It functions on a FIFA stipend of US$60,000 every three months.

That sum, explains TTFA president Raymond Tim Kee, is used to pay staff salaries, rent and settle smaller debts.

In an interview with the Sunday Express at the TTFA’s offices at Ana Street, Woodbrook last Thursday, Tim Kee—who was elected to the post last November—spoke about the challenges in moving the organisation forward.

Read More...
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Offline dreamer

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Re: T&T Football Association $25m in debt
« Reply #5 on: September 01, 2013, 12:15:42 PM »
Refreshing signs of some crucial change. Will be watchin' Tim Kee with a hawk's eye. So far surpassing expectations c/w with the depressing hopeless past.
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Offline vb

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Re: T&T Football Association $25m in debt
« Reply #6 on: September 01, 2013, 12:45:03 PM »


The TTFA is supposed to have an annual budget from the MOS. Are we to assume that the usual budget of around 20-30 million TT dllrs is not available for the 2013?
I find it strange that this question and the exact amount of the budget was not asked.
Yes MOS is paying the Coaches but what about the other expenses etc??? They get blank? And why? A glaring hole in this article.

They want to boost football in the primary schools. Didn't we already have a primary school league?

I eh really know what the final sentence supposed to mean. What? He trying to repay all debts by then?

The more Kim Tee speaks the more embarrassing it is that these men stood by and allowed Warner to do this and yet have had the temerity to not resign.

He damn right he has to win the public's confidence. However, we as the public if our confidence is won must be ensure to maintain that certain factors are put into place as to not waste our public funds again.

This organisation was given around half a billion dollars between 2000-2009 and let Warner lambast the govt for a lack of support only to tell us they didn't know where the money went. The idiocy and the incompetence is staggering, compounded by the fact that many of them are still there.

VB
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Offline royal

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Re: T&T Football Association $25m in debt
« Reply #7 on: September 01, 2013, 03:58:45 PM »
Me ain't even taken on Tim Kee talking about TTFA debt. He was part of dat regime that WILLINGLY allowed Jack to run away with de money.He said nothing when Scotland and others were paying Jack directly and not de TTFF.I not even going into the LOC mess.

What he is doing however to rebound by looking at new streams of revenue sounds good. But he sat by and said nothing as a member of de executive as Jack raped T&T football 

Offline Big Magician

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Re: T&T Football Association $25m in debt
« Reply #8 on: September 01, 2013, 06:41:26 PM »
where is our f#cking 200 million dollars ??
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Offline Flex

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Re: T&T Football Association $25m in debt
« Reply #9 on: September 02, 2013, 01:01:12 AM »
He said there were 350 registered football organisations in the country.

Not good, this is why an overall change is needed and under one umbrella. A country this small cannot have so much organizations, we biting more than we can chew.

Anyhow, this might sound ignorant, but why did they change the name from TTFF to TTFA? I taught it was to escape depts in some instance? How can one sue the TTFA for something the TTFF did/owe? isn't this one of the reason BWEE is now Caribbean Airlines to escape depts and so on? I know big companies here who operate under a different name with the same people and the same employees but they did it to escape debts. Bankruptcy is another option they practice that is very effective to some extent.

Anyways, Just asking.

« Last Edit: September 02, 2013, 08:40:42 AM by Flex »
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Offline royal

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Re: T&T Football Association $25m in debt
« Reply #10 on: September 02, 2013, 05:25:13 AM »
He said there were 350 registered football organisations in the country.

Not good, this is why an overall change is needed and under one umbrella. A country this small cannot have so much organizations, we biting more than we can chew.

Anyhow, this might sound ignorant, but why did they change the name from TTFF to TTFA? I taught it was to escape depts in some instance? How can one sue the TTFA for something the TTFF did/owe? isn't this one of the reason BWEE is now Caribbean Airlines to escape depts and so on? I know big companies here who operate under a different name with the same people and the same employees but they did it to escape debts. Bankruptcy is another option they practice that is very effective to some extent.

Anyways, Just asking.



Tim Kee doh want to face de hard questions of a simple but knowledgeable fan base. Yuh ain't see he want to form his own fan club? why would you do that instead of working with a base that's already there? 
« Last Edit: September 02, 2013, 08:40:58 AM by Flex »

Offline Brownsugar

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Re: T&T Football Association $25m in debt
« Reply #11 on: September 02, 2013, 05:26:23 AM »
where is our f#cking 200 million dollars ??

Perhaps the green lantern might tell us one day from the platform during his campaign.  After all he did apologise for the corruption in this government.....perhpas he'll do the same for the TTFF and tell we where we money gone......and den turn heself into the police......oh to dream.....*sigh*
"...If yuh clothes tear up
Or yuh shoes burst off,
You could still jump up when music play.
Old lady, young baby, everybody could dingolay...
Dingolay, ay, ay, ay ay,
Dingolay ay, ay, ay..."

RIP Shadow....The legend will live on in music...

Offline Brownsugar

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Re: T&T Football Association $25m in debt
« Reply #12 on: September 02, 2013, 05:31:57 AM »
Anyhow, this might sound ignorant, but why did they change the name from TTFF to TTFA? I taught it was to escape depts in some instance? How can one sue the TTFA for something the TTFF did/owe? isn't this one of the reason BWEE is now Caribbean Airlines to escape depts and so on? I know big companies here who operate under a different name with the same people and the same employees but they did it to escape debts. Bankruptcy is another option they practice that is very effective to some extent.

Anyways, Just asking.

Flex, I think it has something to do with the TTFF not being the legitimate Association.  The TTFF was a business entity owned by Camps.  TTFA was/is the body that was incorporated to run football and was never officially changed to TTFF.  The reason behind the change of name to TTFF has do with something Camps and Jackula cook up some years ago most likely to run dey racket.

I remember about 4 - 5 years ago Warner went to parliament to try to get the name officially changed to TTFF but was unsuccessful.  In fact, a few forumites wrote letters to their MP's asking that the process be thwarted.  It eventually lapsed and was never effected.

Folks with more details on the drama can explain better than I can but this is my basic knowledge of the TTFF - TTFA saga......
"...If yuh clothes tear up
Or yuh shoes burst off,
You could still jump up when music play.
Old lady, young baby, everybody could dingolay...
Dingolay, ay, ay, ay ay,
Dingolay ay, ay, ay..."

RIP Shadow....The legend will live on in music...

Offline Flex

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Re: T&T Football Association $25m in debt
« Reply #13 on: September 02, 2013, 05:49:55 AM »
He said there were 350 registered football organisations in the country.

Not good, this is why an overall change is needed and under one umbrella. A country this small cannot have so much organizations, we biting more than we can chew.

Anyhow, this might sound ignorant, but why did they change the name from TTFF to TTFA? I taught it was to escape depts in some instance? How can one sue the TTFA for something the TTFF did/owe? isn't this one of the reason BWEE is now Caribbean Airlines to escape depts and so on? I know big companies here who operate under a different name with the same people and the same employees but they did it to escape debts. Bankruptcy is another option they practice that is very effective to some extent.

Anyways, Just asking.



Tim Kee doh want to face de hard questions of a simple but knowledgeable fan base. Yuh ain't see he want to form his own fan club? why would you do that instead of working with a base that's already there? 

Ent !!!
« Last Edit: September 02, 2013, 08:41:12 AM by Flex »
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Offline Flex

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Re: T&T Football Association $25m in debt
« Reply #14 on: September 02, 2013, 05:50:34 AM »
Anyhow, this might sound ignorant, but why did they change the name from TTFF to TTFA? I taught it was to escape depts in some instance? How can one sue the TTFA for something the TTFF did/owe? isn't this one of the reason BWEE is now Caribbean Airlines to escape depts and so on? I know big companies here who operate under a different name with the same people and the same employees but they did it to escape debts. Bankruptcy is another option they practice that is very effective to some extent.

Anyways, Just asking.

Flex, I think it has something to do with the TTFF not being the legitimate Association.  The TTFF was a business entity owned by Camps.  TTFA was/is the body that was incorporated to run football and was never officially changed to TTFF.  The reason behind the change of name to TTFF has do with something Camps and Jackula cook up some years ago most likely to run dey racket.

I remember about 4 - 5 years ago Warner went to parliament to try to get the name officially changed to TTFF but was unsuccessful.  In fact, a few forumites wrote letters to their MP's asking that the process be thwarted.  It eventually lapsed and was never effected.

Folks with more details on the drama can explain better than I can but this is my basic knowledge of the TTFF - TTFA saga......

I hear you.

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Offline Football supporter

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Re: T&T Football Association $25m in debt
« Reply #15 on: September 02, 2013, 06:18:20 AM »
I would imagine that the 350 football organisations include the Pro League, Super League and Zonal clubs as well as the Zones, Pro League and SuperLeague together with the Schools associations and the schools who are members. Then there's WLF and the clubs associated with that.  :beermug:

Offline sub1

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Re: T&T Football Association $25m in debt
« Reply #16 on: September 02, 2013, 07:03:46 AM »
Tim Kee is doing a good job so far. He, like every other leader will have his detractors. Be that as it may we have seen some genuine improvement since his inauguration. Although such improvement may not be something to write home about since the only way is up from any JW administration.
Flex, on the Issue of JW you may want to change the words "crook" and "stole" since they could produce some serious legal issues for you.
VB, you have asked some probing questions but I would mix that with the thought that the MOS moves to the rhythm of his own drumbeat. it appears that he holds that position because of JW.

Offline Trinitozbone

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Re: T&T Football Association $25m in debt
« Reply #17 on: September 02, 2013, 10:06:25 AM »
I am not impressed. Serious ideological flaws. Business without acknowledging fans and putting the interest of players and coaches who have been in the trenches for so long is starting off on the wrong foot! His approach on marketing seems flawed . Who is he marketing to? Who is he trying to fool? Is Beenhakker going to help in the cultural shift? Is it management culture he is speaking about? How was Sheldon Phillios and Anton  Corneal selected? Is not that the same old culture? How can you have new culture with same old nepotism in selection of personnel? Poor governance !what is needed to put a proper constitution in place , have the fans and persons involved in football be part of decision making. Fans too should have a say. Proper election of all officials in a transparent process. Tim kee camethrough the back door . He has no legitimacy to make those kind of statement for the long term . He should be focussing on putting some proper structures in place and he he will get more traction in the long term. He s trying to say the right things but doing it the wrong way! I still see an old school colonial thinking in Corneal and Phillios trying to run football through their sons. Doomed for failure !

Offline OutsideMan

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Re: T&T Football Association $25m in debt
« Reply #18 on: September 02, 2013, 02:28:44 PM »
Nothing with that story surprises me at all.  Anyone who's been paying attention for the past few years to the constant drama in this soap opera known at the TTFF (or the TTFA, or whatever they decide to call themselves to escape responsibilities from prior business dealings), should not be surprised by any story presenting financial loses, theft and misappropriations of funds, and other shady mis-deeds by this organization.

You really can't script these TTFF stories.  Wouldn't surprise me if the writers of 'Game of Thrones' probably get most of their inspiration and story ideas by coming on this site to read-up on the latest shennanigans by the TTFF.     
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Offline Controversial

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The Government should Pay off the TTFF Debt and Revitalize our National Football
« Reply #19 on: September 16, 2014, 12:21:25 PM »
The other day I saw posters and advertising of the Jamaica vs. Canada match and I thought to myself, T&T with all those resources and rich private sector and we can't pull our football out of the doldrums?

It doesn't make sense to me, none of it. The amount of corrupt governments we have had in the past and hundreds of millions in embezzlement and the public sector can't step forward and bail out our football? To restore one of our most beloved sports, a sport that can help restore morale and inspire the masses.

We need a bail out to salvage our national football, I know many would say, why should we? But why shouldn't we, if we are going to turn over a new leaf and be accountable, we need to start fresh.

I like Phillips but I don't trust Tim Kee, no offense, he has roots in the previous admin that was negligent of so many of our woes over the years. I can't help but say that if we are to bail out the program, we would need a new start with new faces and not usual suspects of friends and family of previous admin and controllers.

It's the only way we can recover, if nothing is done, we are venturing down another campaign destined for failure. Do we want this? NO, it stunts our growth, it halts our progress that SH has made. That he could make and qualify us for the next World Cup. But how will that be possible when you have so many benefactors holding our football ransom, sorry to say it but it's true. Do I blame them? No, they deserve their pay and in the current state our football is in right now, Phillips and Tim Kee can't deliver that capital.

Since this is the case, the control of our football needs to be handed off to a group who can manage our national body and bring it back to life. Perpetual money problems in a nation as rich as we are, is mind boggling.

I can only see one way out of this current fiasco and it's through government intervention once again.
« Last Edit: September 16, 2014, 12:23:20 PM by Controversial »

Offline dreamer

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Perceptions that I can't find documents to prove ...
1. Sorry to say, Uncle Tim looks suspect in covering for Jackulito these days. I kinda liked him for some of the transient trust he created by aiming to look like he was pushing a changed agenda from you-know-who, when he first came on board, but his actions speak very much louder than words. Anyway we have to be grateful for small mercies and he made a landmark decision to pay Sancho and the boys and some of the unpaid coaches and staff and that is important to heal the bottomless wounds. He might not be able to go further and end up incriminating himself. He could just be seen as a stepping stone to progress in the future that follows a catastrophic past.
2. The TTFA is being systematically starved of funds probably for multiple reasons including bad mind, a who-gives-a-shite-mentality but also perception of toxic assets in the TTFA as the socawarriors in the case have been told that they have to go after the missing money. TTFA accounts are possibly seen as radioactive and nobody wants to touch dem fellas with donations, sponsorships, while undercover lawyers might be snooping around. So not getting near, not even with a 10 foot pole.
3. Sheldon is an asset but he needs to show that he is divorced completely from the ways of Jackulito, Scampito and Rodent as the distrust runs very very deep. Peter payin' for Paul.
« Last Edit: September 16, 2014, 03:39:13 PM by dreamer »
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Offline socalion

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Very interesting  subject / points  raised  here ( Contro) i  am inclined to agree with many of what  has been said as it relates to the  current  financial dilemma  the  federation is facing at the moment .... The ttfa  without doubt  are in dire need of assistance   sooner rather than later ....... it is hoped  that the government  via  the sports ministry  collectively work alongside eachother to bring some stability once and for all to  the current  dilemma..    .......will the government step up to assist thats left to be seen... politics aside ..  ....... On a side  note  wanna wish  the under20's the best against  cuba today .... give it ur all .....stay discipline ....again  best team tnt

Offline elan

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All that private sector money staying in Goodwood and Moka.
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Offline Controversial

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All that private sector money staying in Goodwood and Moka.

the reason for that is a horrible taxation system and a non extractable economy in which the government can't allocate resources to benefit the nation in other vital areas.

Offline Rastaman

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But Aunty Kamala just paid the World Cup debt..... How much more you think they going to get ???????


Offline Football supporter

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Tim Kee allegedly deceived TTFA executive about Warriors’ debt
« Reply #25 on: November 17, 2014, 05:45:54 AM »
Tim Kee allegedly deceived TTFA executive about Warriors’ debt.
By Lasana Liburd (wired868).


Trinidad and Tobago Football Association (TTFA) president Raymond Tim Kee, according to a letter leaked to Wired868, apparently tried to deceive his own executive committee about the financial health of the football body and its debts to players and staff.

On 10 November 2014, Tim Kee, in a letter to his executive committee, appeared to dismiss claims that the TTFA had failed to meet its financial obligations to players and staff.

“There is no current debt to the national senior team and coaching staff,” wrote Tim Kee, in a letter that appeared to be signed by the football president and written on a TTFA letterhead. “The team has been paid all arrears and up to the date of this letter has been paid up to the CONCACAF tournament in Jamaica.”

The football president also told his executive committee that the arrears of his head coach, Stephen Hart, had been “addressed.”

“As you are aware, national senior team coach Stephen Hart, like his predecessors, is paid directly by the Ministry of Sport,” stated Tim Kee, on November 10, “and we have been working with them diligently to regularize Mr Hart’s salary arrangements.

“Currently Mr Hart’s arrears have been addressed.”

Both statements were, at best, economical with the truth. At worst, Tim Kee had presented a dishonest report to the football body and willfully misrepresented the condition of the TTFA’s flagship team.

On 14 November, four days after Tim Kee’s letter, Hart admitted that he still had not been paid by the TTFA while Wired868 understands he had gone eight months without a salary. The remaining staff and players have also gone six months since their last match fee with the combined debt believed to be in the region of $5 million.

And, in the period between the executive committee’s letter on October 22 and Tim Kee’s response, the “Soca Warriors” had been temporarily barred from their team camp at the Carlton Savannah hotel for non-payment. While the national players threatened to boycott the 2014 Caribbean Cup finals unless they received assurances regarding outstanding payments.

At present, the Warriors hope that outstanding money will be relayed to the squad via manager William Wallace on Tuesday November 18, which is the day of the Caribbean Cup final. The Trinidad and Tobago team, which faces host side Jamaica in the final, is bidding to lift the regional crown for the first time in 13 years.

The TTFA executive’s list of questions, which were signed by Lennox Watson, Rudy Thomas and Krishna Kuarsingh and apparently approved by Neville Ferguson, Roland Forde, Richard Quan Chan, Brian Layne, Sherwin Dyer, Paula Chester-Cumberbatch and Anthony Creed, also accused Tim Kee of failing to provide financial statements to the football body including figures for any of the Warriors’ international tours including the Argentina charter.

Tim Kee, who is also the Port of Spain Mayor, PNM Treasurer and chairman of the TTFA Finance Committee, conceded that there had been no audited accounting statements presented to the executive committee during his two years at the helm of the football body.

And he did not provide the requested information either. Instead, he blamed his failure to properly account for the football body’s spending on the “long list of financial issues” inherent in an organization that supposedly had not been audited between 2007 and 2012.

“It is particularly ironic that having inherited this previously poorly managed situation,” said Tim Kee, “that the same individuals responsible for the predicament of the organization now ‘demand’ to be presented financial statements that have been challenging to arrange due to the past mismanagement of TTFF accounts.”

Ironically, Tim Kee did not point out that he was a senior vice-president for more than half the period he identified. He did claim, though, that the football body’s management accounts would “be made available as soon as the auditors have had an opportunity to provide final sign off.”

He did not give himself a deadline to provide financial answers.

The executive committee had questions too about the TTFA’s use of FIFA funds, which should have been at least $4.8 million in 2014, and its treatment of the “Women Soca Warriors.”

“Why was the mandatory 15 percent (of the FIFA funds) not given to the national senior women’s team for their World Cup qualifying matches?” asked the executive committee.

Tim Kee did not say how much money his general secretary, Sheldon Phillips, received from FIFA but again suggested that such information would be provided after auditors had signed off on the football body’s account. Once more, he did not provide a date.

His response on the funding of the women’s team was also long-winded and vague.

Read More

« Last Edit: November 17, 2014, 05:51:18 AM by Flex »

Offline AB.Trini

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Re: Tim Kee allegedly deceived TTFA executive about Warriors’ debt
« Reply #26 on: November 17, 2014, 07:19:47 AM »
If these allegations are factual, immediate dismissal- and should be grounds for investigation as to  the credibility for future political office-
In other words- he should not be considered for public office. Time to STAMP out unethical and moral corruption among public officials.

Offline King Deese

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Re: Tim Kee allegedly deceived TTFA executive about Warriors’ debt
« Reply #27 on: November 17, 2014, 01:08:30 PM »
The inmates running the asylum.
I am the punishment of God...If you had not comitted great sins, God would not have sent a punishment like me upon you.

Offline elan

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Re: Tim Kee allegedly deceived TTFA executive about Warriors’ debt
« Reply #28 on: November 17, 2014, 01:41:14 PM »
Bakes boy they making it hard for you to keep up with defenses, I doubt you could type fast enough. Yuh doh only have to defend hard here, but now yuh have to run around the interweb too. Chat with these fellas and tell them slow down nah man.  ;D
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Offline Socapro

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Re: Tim Kee allegedly deceived TTFA executive about Warriors’ debt
« Reply #29 on: November 17, 2014, 01:52:30 PM »
Bakes boy they making it hard for you to keep up with defenses, I doubt you could type fast enough. Yuh doh only have to defend hard here, but now yuh have to run around the interweb too. Chat with these fellas and tell them slow down nah man.  ;D
;)
De higher a monkey climbs is de less his ass is on de line, if he works for FIFA that is! ;-)