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Offline Tallman

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TTFF must tackle Jack or face contempt charge
« on: February 14, 2012, 04:40:19 PM »
TTFF must tackle Jack or face contempt charge
By Lasana Liburd (wired868)


The Trinidad and Tobago Football Federation (TTFF) has three days to decide on a suitably tough legal suit against its former Special Advisor and “renegade agent” Jack Warner, the Minister of Works and a former FIFA Vice President, or face a charge for contempt of court.

Justice Devindra Rampersad gave the fresh deadline to the TTFF in the Port of Spain High Court today after a stop-start day of legal wrangling that included three breaks, multiple presentations by most of the four legal teams present, a false alarm and regular requests for a lengthy delay.

TTFF General Secretary Richard Groden was eventually left with a choice.

Groden must either satisfy the High Court that he is taking strong legal action against Warner to satisfy the court’s request for vital accounting statements related to the 2006 World Cup; or he could feasibly be jailed on Carnival Friday for contempt of court.

Justice Rampersad hinted that an independent suit by the TTFF might be the best course of action. That suit would run parallel to World Cup bonus case filed by the 13 World Cup players and would be handled and expedited by the Judge.

Stern John, Brent Sancho, Cyd Gray, Aurtis Whitley, Atiba Charles and Anthony Wolfe were present for the claimants while Groden and Treasurer Rudi Thomas represented the TTFF and its former President Oliver Camps was there as the second defendant.

One thing made abundantly clear is that Warner’s claim to have supplied the TTFF with all relevant documentation already—which was relayed to the local football body by letter last week—will not be taken seriously.

Justice Rampersad described Warner’s letter as strange and noted the TTFF’s former special advisor already promised, in an affidavit on 17 October 2011, that he was “prepared to provide to (the TTFF) the information or documentation relevant to the taking of the account between it and the claimants.”

“I have a situation where someone said one thing in an affidavit,” said Justice Rampersad, “and in a letter said something else.”

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Offline ZANDOLIE

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Re: TTFF must tackle Jack or face contempt charge
« Reply #1 on: February 14, 2012, 05:15:25 PM »
So after all the old talk it now clear the judge never issued directives to Jack warner. I like many others appreciate Lasana Liburd's contributions to exposing the current and historical facts surrounding this case. But your credibility will be lessened when you deviate from said facts. Don't be in such a rush to get Jack that you create misleading headlines claiming that Jack was given ultimatums.

As for Rampersad....yuh making a c*nt of yourself and dragging justice into the mud. Among other things we expect a judge to be expert in enforcing process. Locate your nutsack and stop these lawyers from making a bitch out you and a complete mockery of our laws.

« Last Edit: February 14, 2012, 05:22:52 PM by ZANDOLIE »
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Offline spideybuff

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Re: TTFF must tackle Jack or face contempt charge
« Reply #2 on: February 14, 2012, 05:33:41 PM »
Jack is not a defendant in the case so the judge cannot order him. He is applying pressure to the TTFF who is the defendant and are using Jack warner's title as a special advisor as an excuse. The onus is on them to get the accounts.
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Offline MEP

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Re: TTFF must tackle Jack or face contempt charge
« Reply #3 on: February 14, 2012, 05:47:00 PM »
What is misleading about his headlines? the TTFF must either do one or the other.. ask jack for the accounts and he might might tell themm go go go ask dey mudder or the TTFF can face contempt of court charges. The question is, would they go to jail for Jack?
Stop being so emotional ...... Rampersad has to proceed with caution as jack is a sitting member of Parliament.
We know who teef de money and we could say that with a fair measure of certainty we just cyah prove it.

Offline diamondtrim

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Re: TTFF must tackle Jack or face contempt charge
« Reply #4 on: February 14, 2012, 05:48:22 PM »
So after all the old talk it now clear the judge never issued directives to Jack warner. I like many others appreciate Lasana Liburd's contributions to exposing the current and historical facts surrounding this case. But your credibility will be lessened when you deviate from said facts. Don't be in such a rush to get Jack that you create misleading headlines claiming that Jack was given ultimatums.

As for Rampersad....yuh making a c*nt of yourself and dragging justice into the mud. Among other things we expect a judge to be expert in enforcing process. Locate your nutsack and stop these lawyers from making a bitch out you and a complete mockery of our laws.



Thank you.........

Offline ZANDOLIE

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Re: TTFF must tackle Jack or face contempt charge
« Reply #5 on: February 14, 2012, 06:14:52 PM »
What is misleading about his headlines? the TTFF must either do one or the other.. ask jack for the accounts and he might might tell themm go go go ask dey mudder or the TTFF can face contempt of court charges. The question is, would they go to jail for Jack?
Stop being so emotional ...... Rampersad has to proceed with caution as jack is a sitting member of Parliament.
We know who teef de money and we could say that with a fair measure of certainty we just cyah prove it.

(1) Several headlines were misleading. For example "Judge orders Warner: Show me the money". In the body of this article he implies that Warner had a deadline of until Feb to produce accounts. This was clearly NOT the case and such poor journalism is a let down to those of us who know Liburd can do much better.

(2) It abundantly clear that Jack was far more than an advisor. He should be added to the case. Simple. Instead the judge is looking to add a new layer of complexity by introducing another suit. And what is the timeframe to come up with a plan? 1/2hr? 1hr, 3days...what is next another 2 months? And the penalty for not having a suit? Groden gets to spend carnival weekend in jail. Not a bad price for the dissapearance of hundreds of millions.

(3) How much more caution you want this judge to show after Jack blatantly disregarded repeated orders to appear in court and have his lawyer continoiusly make a fool of the legal process. And what the hell does the fact that Jack is a sitting member of parliment have to do with anything. It have a different law for them?

(4) The courts don't 'prove' whether a criminal or civil violation took place. They weigh the evidence of such and make a ruling. Om Lalla obviously knows this and that is why he had Jack and the TTFF doing anything they could to delay a comprehensive and definitive ruling. This is where a judge worth their salt must be able to control the proceedings and keep focus on the court's business. and this is where Rampersad is failing miserably. The longer it drags out the greater the cost to society because no way Jack paying for this with all his own money
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Offline Brownsugar

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Re: TTFF must tackle Jack or face contempt charge
« Reply #6 on: February 14, 2012, 06:39:08 PM »
hhhhhhhmmmmm.......this is very, very interesting.......

Ah want to agree with Zando on the one hand that ah find de judge sticking......must be mih fedupness with the whole blasted thing.....

......on the other hand I want to give de judge the benefit of the doubt......I want to think that there is a reason why he is taking this particular course of action....

either way, its going to be an interesting couple of weeks/months......*pulls out bag of popcorn*

"...If yuh clothes tear up
Or yuh shoes burst off,
You could still jump up when music play.
Old lady, young baby, everybody could dingolay...
Dingolay, ay, ay, ay ay,
Dingolay ay, ay, ay..."

RIP Shadow....The legend will live on in music...

Offline Big Magician

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Re: TTFF must tackle Jack or face contempt charge
« Reply #7 on: February 14, 2012, 06:47:45 PM »
IT Second Defendsssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss
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Offline Big Magician

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Re: TTFF must tackle Jack or face contempt charge
« Reply #8 on: February 14, 2012, 06:50:20 PM »
EVIL "FU#KING" KNIEVEL
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Offline Brownsugar

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Re: TTFF must tackle Jack or face contempt charge
« Reply #9 on: February 14, 2012, 07:05:40 PM »
IT Second Defendsssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss

 :rotfl: :rotfl:  we miss this since the old Camps off the scene somewhat.....
"...If yuh clothes tear up
Or yuh shoes burst off,
You could still jump up when music play.
Old lady, young baby, everybody could dingolay...
Dingolay, ay, ay, ay ay,
Dingolay ay, ay, ay..."

RIP Shadow....The legend will live on in music...

Offline Jack Horner

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Re: TTFF must tackle Jack or face contempt charge
« Reply #10 on: February 14, 2012, 07:07:56 PM »
Today was a great day.

Justice Devindra Rampersad good show my friend.

Lets catch up for a drink later.

Remember guys, everyone have a price.

Jack will raise agian !!!!!!!!!!!!
Jack Warner will rise again and the world will beg him him to return and he will say "NO".............

Offline Big Magician

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Re: TTFF must tackle Jack or face contempt charge
« Reply #11 on: February 14, 2012, 07:08:17 PM »
yea bago Gyal.... poor old man... ah did tell im to retire long time...now he have to take it....
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Offline Big Magician

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Re: TTFF must tackle Jack or face contempt charge
« Reply #12 on: February 14, 2012, 07:08:51 PM »
yea Horner.... real drinks coming soon...pipe water whole day
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Offline D.H.W

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Re: TTFF must tackle Jack or face contempt charge
« Reply #13 on: February 14, 2012, 07:19:37 PM »
Today was a great day.

Justice Devindra Rampersad good show my friend.

Lets catch up for a drink later.

Remember guys, everyone have a price.

Jack will raise agian !!!!!!!!!!!!

Clown  :rotfl:
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Offline Bakes

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Re: TTFF must tackle Jack or face contempt charge
« Reply #14 on: February 14, 2012, 07:21:10 PM »
This is beyond laughable.  Ah tort de judge say if Jack didn't comply he would add him as a defendant to the case (ent Football Supporter)?

Now when yuh do hear de shout, he not adding him as a defendant, he telling de TTFF to sue Jack.  All along I say that the players should have sued Jack and bring him in, FS say I doh know what I talking about, the judge say this and the judge say that.  What de judge saying now?  Something different.

steups

Offline CK1

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Re: TTFF must tackle Jack or face contempt charge
« Reply #15 on: February 14, 2012, 08:26:26 PM »
Today was a great day.

Justice Devindra Rampersad good show my friend.

Lets catch up for a drink later.

Remember guys, everyone have a price. 

Jack will raise agian !!!!!!!!!!!!


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« Last Edit: February 14, 2012, 08:28:29 PM by Flex »
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Offline ribbit

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Re: TTFF must tackle Jack or face contempt charge
« Reply #16 on: February 14, 2012, 09:33:43 PM »
Good post zandolie. Too much enterprise in T&T does be one man show including journalism. Quality journalism doh fraid some fact checking.

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Re: TTFF must tackle Jack or face contempt charge
« Reply #17 on: February 15, 2012, 12:25:36 AM »
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/oDJCFUQil0E" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/oDJCFUQil0E</a>

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/Aq9cJ1HgxGs" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/Aq9cJ1HgxGs</a>
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Offline Brownsugar

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Re: TTFF must tackle Jack or face contempt charge
« Reply #18 on: February 15, 2012, 05:00:14 AM »
Today was a great day.

Justice Devindra Rampersad good show my friend.

Lets catch up for a drink later.

Remember guys, everyone have a price.

Jack will raise agian !!!!!!!!!!!!

Is yuh good friend but yuh calling him "Justice Devindra Rampersad"??......how come yuh eh calling yuh ole pal Devi or Rampersad or Judgy??....steups!!!  You is a real backside yes.......::) ::)

And ah tired tell yuh its not "raise again" is "rise again".......geez.... :frustrated:
"...If yuh clothes tear up
Or yuh shoes burst off,
You could still jump up when music play.
Old lady, young baby, everybody could dingolay...
Dingolay, ay, ay, ay ay,
Dingolay ay, ay, ay..."

RIP Shadow....The legend will live on in music...

Offline just cool

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Re: TTFF must tackle Jack or face contempt charge
« Reply #19 on: February 15, 2012, 06:25:56 AM »
That is ah real shameless man! imagine this man is in denial despite all the evidence. he was in denial with the bin hammam scandal, simpaul and now this. when will this man ever own up and man up?
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Offline mukumsplau

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Re: TTFF must tackle Jack or face contempt charge
« Reply #20 on: February 15, 2012, 07:26:23 AM »
jack goin down like ghaddaffi boy..i startin to feel sorry fuh him.....not!

Offline Football supporter

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Re: TTFF must tackle Jack or face contempt charge
« Reply #21 on: February 15, 2012, 08:14:13 AM »
First, this case is open to the public, which means if anyone is really interested in knowing what is going on, they should take a day off work and attend.

Because I find people here ready to criticise without really understanding whats happening.

Why is is it that the players are very happy with the way the case is proceeding, yet people here criticising the judge, Lasana, basically everyone?

People here should realise that when you're trying to trap an alligator, you have to make sure he don't bite off your arm or just slip away.

It may be pedantic, but the law is like that. You cannot skip a step because someone like Lalla will exploit that error.

How many times have you heard criminals being released because procedure wasn't followed?

Someone say the players should have sued Jack. Ok, what for? He was an employee, so therefore he could escape by saying he was just doing TTFF's bidding. He has no ownership of TTFF. So ultimately its TTFF's responsibility. Even the judge refers to him as agent of TTFF. Also, there is not one document that shows that Jack received a single cent in salary or sponsorship aside from the accounts he has produced. The case against Jack would have failed before it started.

To get to Jack you needed Camps, who is the sole proprietor of TTFF, and Groden (TTFF) to finger Jack. Once that has been established, then you can go after Jack.

That's where we are now. But before Jack can be added, there has to be an unchallengeable reason to add him. TTFF, as Jacks employer, have to show that Jack is not complying with their requests. They then have to sue him for their money and documents. Although everyone knows Jack has everything, its all hearsay. So, once the TTFF exercise their legal rights and sue him, his evidence will be utilised in the players case. Then he could be added. If TTFF refuse to sue Jack, they will be in contempt of court and punished accordingly. The judge would then, as a last resort, add Jack to the case.

Any deviation from this process would invite an appeal for so many reasons.

Yesterday, the judge was severe in his criticism. He made it clear that this situation would be resolved yesterday to his satisfaction. TTFF asked for 4 weeks to plan, he gave them 30 minutes. They then requested 2 weeks, he gave them 3 hours. They claimed all of the TTFF documents were illegally removed by the players, the judge allowed Sancho to return to TTFF offices to ensure everything was still there, and it was. The players requested permission to copy the documents. After TTFFs strenuous challenges, the judge approved the players request.

Lalla had no need to attend court. He no longer represented TTFF and Jack wasn't on trial. Yet the Judge ordered Lalla to attend. Each time, when TTFF lawyer, Ali, claimed unfamiliarity with the case or that he'd had no access to documents, the judge just told him that Lalla is here, ask him.

Lasanas headline is 100% accurate. On Friday, TTFF must return to court with a law suit against Jack. If they don't, or the suit is not strong enough, the judge will charge them with contempt. He can do this because he set up Groden beautifully. When Jacks letter to TTFF saying that he had given over all accounts and money to TTFF was read, the judge made Groden walk to the front of the court to face him. The judge said "Mr Groden, are you satisfied with this response?" Groden stammered and mumbled, but eventually admitted he was not satisfied. The judge immediately asked what TTFF planned to do. Groden was completely confused and clearly didn't know what the next correct move was. He then said, he should consult with counsel. But the judge just swung around on Ali and said "What are you going to do?"  Ali shit himself. He clearly hadn't recognised the seriousness of this hearing. He said he would consult with his clients and decide. The judge went garrity on him. "But your client isn't satisfied with the response from its agent. So what are you going to do?" This was when the first 30 minute break came.

Camps, Groden and their lawyers were clearly shook up. It was clear their strategy was to ask for another 4 weeks to respond. The judge said he was prepared to sit their until midnight. He's clearly had enough and his ducks are lined up ready to shoot at.

"It abundantly clear that Jack was far more than an advisor." Statements like this are legally naive, although obviously accurate. There is not a shred of evidence that Warner controlled money or gave orders to TTFF.

Maybe Liburd oversimplified some statements. Journalists do this for impact. "Judge orders Warner: Show me the money" may not be factually correct, but this is what actually happened. Perhaps the headline should have read:
 "Judge orders TTFF: Write to Warner to show you the money so you can then show it to me"

"Ah tort de judge say if Jack didn't comply he would add him as a defendant to the case (ent Football Supporter)?"  Jack did comply. He contradicted his affidavit. I'm not sure if this is perjury, but he certainly lied to either the court or his employer. The judge clearly said yesterday that if TTFF don't sue Jack, he will put them in contempt and use his powers to obtain the information.

Its my belief that Rampersad knows exactly what he's doing. The biggest fear of the players now is that Jack will make an offer to settle to avoid court. Although the players would like their money, they are really keen to see these people recognised legally as responsible for misappropriation of funds and unable to continue working in football.
 


Offline Sam

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Re: TTFF must tackle Jack or face contempt charge
« Reply #22 on: February 15, 2012, 08:24:48 AM »
I hope the players dont settle and go there and brun they ass....

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Offline weary1969

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Re: TTFF must tackle Jack or face contempt charge
« Reply #23 on: February 15, 2012, 08:29:22 AM »
First, this case is open to the public, which means if anyone is really interested in knowing what is going on, they should take a day off work and attend.

Because I find people here ready to criticise without really understanding whats happening.

Why is is it that the players are very happy with the way the case is proceeding, yet people here criticising the judge, Lasana, basically everyone?

People here should realise that when you're trying to trap an alligator, you have to make sure he don't bite off your arm or just slip away.

It may be pedantic, but the law is like that. You cannot skip a step because someone like Lalla will exploit that error.

How many times have you heard criminals being released because procedure wasn't followed?

Someone say the players should have sued Jack. Ok, what for? He was an employee, so therefore he could escape by saying he was just doing TTFF's bidding. He has no ownership of TTFF. So ultimately its TTFF's responsibility. Even the judge refers to him as agent of TTFF. Also, there is not one document that shows that Jack received a single cent in salary or sponsorship aside from the accounts he has produced. The case against Jack would have failed before it started.

To get to Jack you needed Camps, who is the sole proprietor of TTFF, and Groden (TTFF) to finger Jack. Once that has been established, then you can go after Jack.

That's where we are now. But before Jack can be added, there has to be an unchallengeable reason to add him. TTFF, as Jacks employer, have to show that Jack is not complying with their requests. They then have to sue him for their money and documents. Although everyone knows Jack has everything, its all hearsay. So, once the TTFF exercise their legal rights and sue him, his evidence will be utilised in the players case. Then he could be added. If TTFF refuse to sue Jack, they will be in contempt of court and punished accordingly. The judge would then, as a last resort, add Jack to the case.

Any deviation from this process would invite an appeal for so many reasons.

Yesterday, the judge was severe in his criticism. He made it clear that this situation would be resolved yesterday to his satisfaction. TTFF asked for 4 weeks to plan, he gave them 30 minutes. They then requested 2 weeks, he gave them 3 hours. They claimed all of the TTFF documents were illegally removed by the players, the judge allowed Sancho to return to TTFF offices to ensure everything was still there, and it was. The players requested permission to copy the documents. After TTFFs strenuous challenges, the judge approved the players request.

Lalla had no need to attend court. He no longer represented TTFF and Jack wasn't on trial. Yet the Judge ordered Lalla to attend. Each time, when TTFF lawyer, Ali, claimed unfamiliarity with the case or that he'd had no access to documents, the judge just told him that Lalla is here, ask him.

Lasanas headline is 100% accurate. On Friday, TTFF must return to court with a law suit against Jack. If they don't, or the suit is not strong enough, the judge will charge them with contempt. He can do this because he set up Groden beautifully. When Jacks letter to TTFF saying that he had given over all accounts and money to TTFF was read, the judge made Groden walk to the front of the court to face him. The judge said "Mr Groden, are you satisfied with this response?" Groden stammered and mumbled, but eventually admitted he was not satisfied. The judge immediately asked what TTFF planned to do. Groden was completely confused and clearly didn't know what the next correct move was. He then said, he should consult with counsel. But the judge just swung around on Ali and said "What are you going to do?"  Ali shit himself. He clearly hadn't recognised the seriousness of this hearing. He said he would consult with his clients and decide. The judge went garrity on him. "But your client isn't satisfied with the response from its agent. So what are you going to do?" This was when the first 30 minute break came.

Camps, Groden and their lawyers were clearly shook up. It was clear their strategy was to ask for another 4 weeks to respond. The judge said he was prepared to sit their until midnight. He's clearly had enough and his ducks are lined up ready to shoot at.

"It abundantly clear that Jack was far more than an advisor." Statements like this are legally naive, although obviously accurate. There is not a shred of evidence that Warner controlled money or gave orders to TTFF.

Maybe Liburd oversimplified some statements. Journalists do this for impact. "Judge orders Warner: Show me the money" may not be factually correct, but this is what actually happened. Perhaps the headline should have read:
 "Judge orders TTFF: Write to Warner to show you the money so you can then show it to me"

"Ah tort de judge say if Jack didn't comply he would add him as a defendant to the case (ent Football Supporter)?"  Jack did comply. He contradicted his affidavit. I'm not sure if this is perjury, but he certainly lied to either the court or his employer. The judge clearly said yesterday that if TTFF don't sue Jack, he will put them in contempt and use his powers to obtain the information.

Its my belief that Rampersad knows exactly what he's doing. The biggest fear of the players now is that Jack will make an offer to settle to avoid court. Although the players would like their money, they are really keen to see these people recognised legally as responsible for misappropriation of funds and unable to continue working in football.
 



U have plenty time 2 go through all dat explination. All u had 2 say was d bright peeps in these parts were right and Lasana was wrong.
Today you're the dog, tomorrow you're the hydrant - so be good to others - it comes back!"

Offline weary1969

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Re: TTFF must tackle Jack or face contempt charge
« Reply #24 on: February 15, 2012, 08:36:11 AM »
I hope the players dont settle and go there and brun they ass....



I was incline 2 support this statement b4 Angus and co start to bray. Why fight 4 jokers like dat. TAKE D MONEY AND RUN. Dem fellas eh deserve 2 b fought for.
Today you're the dog, tomorrow you're the hydrant - so be good to others - it comes back!"

Offline Sam

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Re: TTFF must tackle Jack or face contempt charge
« Reply #25 on: February 15, 2012, 08:43:25 AM »
Well if they burn them, Angus Eve gone to, everyone connected with the current TTFF - gone !!!!!!!!!!!

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Offline weary1969

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Re: TTFF must tackle Jack or face contempt charge
« Reply #26 on: February 15, 2012, 08:50:12 AM »
Well if they burn them, Angus Eve gone to, everyone connected with the current TTFF - gone !!!!!!!!!!!



I tink they have run their leg of this relay bout 10 times. They run out ah lane and run back in. It eh have nobody 2 pass d baton to.  So fellas I  :applause: :notworthy: :salute: but doh fight 4 people who happy wit d status quo. Anil go fund dem and d players go get d stipend and all will be well.
Today you're the dog, tomorrow you're the hydrant - so be good to others - it comes back!"

Offline Jack Horner

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Re: TTFF must tackle Jack or face contempt charge
« Reply #27 on: February 15, 2012, 08:55:04 AM »
I see some of you guys making excuses from the earlies.

The players are to greedy and will settle, its a no brainer.

Everyone have a price.

Kelvin Jack, Brent Sancho, Gray, Charles, Whitley and Wolfe are broke and will settle, I hope they do or else they will get nothing in the end.

Jack wins again and Jack will raise again !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Jack Warner will rise again and the world will beg him him to return and he will say "NO".............

Offline weary1969

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Re: TTFF must tackle Jack or face contempt charge
« Reply #28 on: February 15, 2012, 09:04:41 AM »
I see some of you guys making excuses from the earlies.

The players are to greedy and will settle, its a no brainer.

Everyone have a price.

Kelvin Jack, Brent Sancho, Gray, Charles, Whitley and Wolfe are broke and will settle, I hope they do or else they will get nothing in the end.

Jack wins again and Jack will raise again !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

So u offer 5000 and end up paying millions and u win. What dictionary u using?
Today you're the dog, tomorrow you're the hydrant - so be good to others - it comes back!"

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Re: TTFF must tackle Jack or face contempt charge
« Reply #29 on: February 15, 2012, 09:20:57 AM »
I see some of you guys making excuses from the earlies.

The players are to greedy and will settle, its a no brainer.

Everyone have a price.

Kelvin Jack, Brent Sancho, Gray, Charles, Whitley and Wolfe are broke and will settle, I hope they do or else they will get nothing in the end.

Jack wins again and Jack will raise again !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

So u offer 5000 and end up paying millions and u win. What dictionary u using?

 :beermug:

 

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