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Author Topic: Was king tut european?  (Read 8584 times)

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Offline Conquering Lion

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Re: Was king tut european?
« Reply #30 on: June 22, 2012, 11:05:57 AM »
When we were researching this project, we found that there had been numerous Pyramid like structures scattered through out Northern Africa and the Sahara from Zanzibar, Sudan and the largest being in Egypt. The African Pyramids are not uniquely Egypt, but their immensity is! The paintings on the walls of KV62 and other chambers had faces and skin that is dark. I mean there was color compositions that were used on parts of the paintings were white, or cream color, why paint the faces of Tut and his family dark brown. Tut name's meaning was supposed to be "son or walking image of anul" Anul is dark in all depictions that I have found.

@ JC a lot of times these projects are privately funded and the funders have a say in the outcome in the final product. Eg is the T-Rex an apex predator or a scavenger, anatomically it's a scavenger but depicted as a predator.... or what was it's true color composition. A lot of times the artist rendition is heavily influenced by external factors or executive input. Would you like to be told that your whole history was based on a misconception?

Most Egyptians (today) don't consider themselves black, and despise being called "African"

@DHW no but I travelled a lot!

Nice post.........Doh forget that the pyramids in Egypt and througout Mexico were based on a Pi ratio (when Pi was supposed to be "dscovered" by the Greeks)

I have to remember that one....son of Anil....How Anil reach dey anyway? ;D
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Offline D.H.W

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Re: Was king tut european?
« Reply #31 on: June 22, 2012, 11:09:32 AM »
I saw in Central America there are alot more pyramids but most of them the forest have taken them over. But from above you will see the peaks above the trees. Archaeologist simply don't have the money and time yet to go through all
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Offline elan

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Re: Was king tut european?
« Reply #32 on: June 22, 2012, 11:45:56 AM »
One of the very last projects I (a team of us) filmed & edited while at Discovery Communications was a Doc. on King TUT and his ancestral lines. I have some of the photos on FB of my trip to the Pyramids and the Valley of the Kings. When we took MRI of King Tut and recreated his face, the head of Egypt's Supreme Council of Antiquities and Head Archeologist Zahi Hawass, fought us tooth and nail. They did not want us to depict what we had found or what we were lead to recreate with the help of forensic recreations. That project was delayed from 2008 to 2010. Lets just say that Tut, his granny and his family buried their tombs were not european...

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Re: Was king tut european?
« Reply #33 on: June 22, 2012, 11:50:44 AM »
So because he has that type of DNA mean he is/was? So all them half chinee ting in T&T from/is China/ese  ???
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Re: Was king tut european?
« Reply #34 on: June 22, 2012, 12:12:35 PM »


Nice post.........Doh forget that the pyramids in Egypt and througout Mexico were based on a Pi ratio (when Pi was supposed to be "dscovered" by the Greeks)

I have to remember that one....son of Anil....How Anil reach dey anyway? ;D


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Offline D.H.W

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Re: Re: Was king tut european?
« Reply #35 on: June 22, 2012, 12:14:58 PM »
One of the very last projects I (a team of us) filmed & edited while at Discovery Communications was a Doc. on King TUT and his ancestral lines. I have some of the photos on FB of my trip to the Pyramids and the Valley of the Kings. When we took MRI of King Tut and recreated his face, the head of Egypt's Supreme Council of Antiquities and Head Archeologist Zahi Hawass, fought us tooth and nail. They did not want us to depict what we had found or what we were lead to recreate with the help of forensic recreations. That project was delayed from 2008 to 2010. Lets just say that Tut, his granny and his family buried their tombs were not european...

I have yet to see europeans with ah question mark head (side profile)







maasai/nubian








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Offline triniairman

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Re: Was king tut european?
« Reply #36 on: June 22, 2012, 07:30:08 PM »
I am going to see his mummy and and artifacts at the pacific Science center in Washington state this wknd. Should be interesting.

Offline just cool

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Re: Was king tut european?
« Reply #37 on: June 22, 2012, 08:04:18 PM »
Don't mean to over throw the thread but on the idea of Aliens etc. here are some facts on space travel. 
The closest galaxy to ours is 2mill light years away.  Now light speed is 180,000 mps. (Can't remember exactly).   A vessel at light speed would take 2 million years to get here.   Now let's say they are from some star in our own galaxy.  Even if the travel 1million miles a day it would take them 72,000 years to get to earth.  The closet star is called All-  something and it's 27.5 trillion miles from earth. :)
Plus space is not a vacuum anything traveling at speed of light will meet those particles in the form of unbelievable radiation.   So where could they be from?  And what are they? 

And BTW JC that whole white man vs black man idea is a relatively new concept, no more that 4-5 hundred years old. It's a New World device that worked.  But in the old world it was really about rich and poor and no one could deny the contributions of people with dark skin.  People of color had some many great empires.
Absolute crapola!!!!! ever since the white man set foot in africa the difference was quite noticeable and became an issue, the blackman distrust of the white man was evident, vise versa. the blackman felt that the whiteman was cursed and it showed in the way they conducted themselves.

whites came from a very hostile environment, months of coldness and months of intense heat.

in the cold months white ppl could not forage so they basically lived like hibernating animals, they stored up food for the whole season and hunted very little in the cold months and some months they would literally starve.

their hygiene was also very bad bc of the climate, abstaining from bathing for the whole winter months was normal, this happened all the way till the european Renaissance and beyond, in other words, no hot showers equals plenty perfume, so when he went into africa and saw the abundance of food and water he became grudging.

the black man on the other hand could not understand the ferocity of the white race, and gained a serious mistrust for him, so they came to the conclusion that they were cursed devils. the whiteman on the other hand hated the blackman bc of his looks, the black man was course and rugged, which lead the whiteman to believe that black ppl were animal like (close to animals).

there is a passage in the apocrapha where judah ben macabbe spoke of the greek invasion , and he said, "there were conquerors and wars amongst man kind for centuries, but nothing compared to these people (the greeks), they are the worst of all beings bc they had no heart and no morals", something to that effect, but go read the apocrypha and see how the israelites describe the white race during the greek conquest.

breds, the greeks were the first taste the middle east and africa got of the white race, and it left a lasting effect on them. read herodotus and see how the greeks considered blacks, and then come back and tell me that this concept of black and white is only"400" yrs old.
« Last Edit: June 22, 2012, 08:18:11 PM by just cool »
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Offline just cool

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Re: Was king tut european?
« Reply #38 on: June 22, 2012, 08:59:44 PM »
Don't mean to over throw the thread but on the idea of Aliens etc. here are some facts on space travel. 
The closest galaxy to ours is 2mill light years away.  Now light speed is 180,000 mps. (Can't remember exactly).   A vessel at light speed would take 2 million years to get here.   Now let's say they are from some star in our own galaxy.  Even if the travel 1million miles a day it would take them 72,000 years to get to earth.  The closet star is called All-  something and it's 27.5 trillion miles from earth. :)
Plus space is not a vacuum anything traveling at speed of light will meet those particles in the form of unbelievable radiation.   So where could they be from?  And what are they? 

And BTW JC that whole white man vs black man idea is a relatively new concept, no more that 4-5 hundred years old.  It's a New World device that worked.  But in the old world it was really about rich and poor and no one could deny the contributions of people with dark skin.  People of color had some many great empires.


What lion said. Man thought the earth was flat at one time. Man only existing just a small part in time. There are planets that were around billions of years before us. That means somewhere out there, somebody has a few billion years advantage over us. There are many things we as humans ain't begin to touch yet. We are new kids on the block. Whether or not we were visited is still up for debate, but I would not doubt it.

Yute, ah don't want tuh come @ yuh hard, but yuh forcing meh hand. bredder, this whole alien thing in regard to ancient civilizations is ah white supremacist conspiracy, trust! the whiteman could only go back as far as the greeks, don't you see that they said the greeks gave the world culture, they was talking bout their culture!

before the greeks there were hundreds if not more "thriving" civilizations on the planet. the ethiopians, the nubians, sumerians all had great civilizations, the chaldeans, the midianites, the chinese, the harrapan civilization in india, the empire of sheba in yemen (saba), the civilization of iram, the city in the desert(petra) and so many more! yet these jokers will go as far as to say that the greeks gave the world culture, what ah big fat fackin lie!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petra

fellas like Socrates, aristotle, plato and pythagoras the thief, all learned from the "ancient" egyptians. mr theiving pythagoras went as far as to say that he's the founder of mathematics, when the sumerians and egyptians were using mathematical equations thousands of yrs before pythagoras.

hippocrates said he was the father of medicine, when imohtep the great was using medicine and performing surgery way before the first man who claim to perform surgery in the european renaissance.

breds, doh get tied up, mankind ain't as fackin stupid as these arseholes would make yuh feel. these ppl hide history science and worldy knowledge all in the name of world dominance. yeh the ancients needed aliens to show them how to build things, but the white race accomplishments all came from intelligence through trial and error right?

BTW, which one is harder to produce, ah fackin aero plane or ah civilization made form clay and big stone?? i would say a plane for sure! ah wonder why no body never claimed an alien may have taught the wright brothers about aero dynamics? :thinking:

« Last Edit: June 23, 2012, 01:15:43 PM by just cool »
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Offline ribbit

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Re: Was king tut european?
« Reply #39 on: June 22, 2012, 10:25:17 PM »
Don't mean to over throw the thread but on the idea of Aliens etc. here are some facts on space travel. 
The closest galaxy to ours is 2mill light years away.  Now light speed is 180,000 mps. (Can't remember exactly).   A vessel at light speed would take 2 million years to get here.   Now let's say they are from some star in our own galaxy.  Even if the travel 1million miles a day it would take them 72,000 years to get to earth.  The closet star is called All-  something and it's 27.5 trillion miles from earth. :)
Plus space is not a vacuum anything traveling at speed of light will meet those particles in the form of unbelievable radiation.   So where could they be from?  And what are they? 

And BTW JC that whole white man vs black man idea is a relatively new concept, no more that 4-5 hundred years old. It's a New World device that worked.  But in the old world it was really about rich and poor and no one could deny the contributions of people with dark skin.  People of color had some many great empires.
Absolute crapola!!!!! ever since the white man set foot in africa the difference was quite noticeable and became an issue, the blackman distrust of the white man was evident, vise versa. the blackman felt that the whiteman was cursed and it showed in the way they conducted themselves.

whites came from a very hostile environment, months of coldness and months of intense heat.

in the cold months white ppl could not forage so they basically lived like hibernating animals, they stored up food for the whole season and hunted very little in the cold months and some months they would literally starve.

their hygiene was also very bad bc of the climate, abstaining from bathing for the whole winter months was normal, this happened all the way till the european Renaissance and beyond, in other words, no hot showers equals plenty perfume, so when he went into africa and saw the abundance of food and water he became grudging.

the black man on the other hand could not understand the ferocity of the white race, and gained a serious mistrust for him, so they came to the conclusion that they were cursed devils. the whiteman on the other hand hated the blackman bc of his looks, the black man was course and rugged, which lead the whiteman to believe that black ppl were animal like (close to animals).

there is a passage in the apocrapha where judah ben macabbe spoke of the greek invasion , and he said, "there were conquerors and wars amongst man kind for centuries, but nothing compared to these people (the greeks), they are the worst of all beings bc they had no heart and no morals", something to that effect, but go read the apocrypha and see how the israelites describe the white race during the greek conquest.

breds, the greeks were the first taste the middle east and africa got of the white race, and it left a lasting effect on them. read herodotus and see how the greeks considered blacks, and then come back and tell me that this concept of black and white is only"400" yrs old.

jc, yuh putting your own interpretation of white and black on top of the classical historians who talk about greeks and egyptians not white and black. doh conflate the two. yuh trying to pass a 6 for a 9.

another thing is egyptians didn't treat their african neighbours like dey was brethren. the greeks get similar treatment as other tribes outside of egypt. so again is not white vs black. is egypt vs non-egypt and greeks vs non-greeks. yuh had to build alliances back then. that's why when rome came on to the scene, egypt was rome's best friend because they were going to counterbalance the other powers in the region. again, is not this white vs. black monkey business yuh trying to push.

and yuh making like is geography and climate that dictate how people behave like yuh is a jared diamond disciple. why, in a land of such abundance as de congo, dey have the worst civil conflict in the world over the last generation? millions dead but plenty of resources to share. fact is the worst enemy of africans is other africans.

Offline just cool

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Re: Was king tut european?
« Reply #40 on: June 22, 2012, 10:35:18 PM »
Ah hate it when ever you join ah topic mr kakahole rabbit, so do me a fackin favor and stay out of this wid yuh sympathizing uncle tom arse, pleaseeeee!!

asrehole, the greeks was the first white race to malign black people. aristotle and herodotus dem hated blacks, and any black civilization, that is why they never gave credit to the egyptians and the sumarians for the technology and education they recieved, instead they tried to make it their own.

FYI, if you think that skin color and race made no difference and every thing was about tribes and nations, then read what herodtus had to say about the egytians and the ethiopians, yuh fackin stooge, and BTW, if yuh so informed, tell me why abbysinia is called ethiopia today? and while yuh @ it, could you tell me what "ethiopia" means if color was not important and relevant back then ?
« Last Edit: June 22, 2012, 10:38:03 PM by just cool »
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Re: Was king tut european?
« Reply #41 on: June 22, 2012, 10:59:26 PM »
Anybody mentioned the research by Cheik Anta Diop yet?
www.westindiantube.com

Check it out - it real bad!

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Re: Was king tut european?
« Reply #42 on: June 22, 2012, 11:24:33 PM »
Just to add a little white perspective here....the majority of  ordinary Anglo Saxons don't consider Greeks and Turks as white. Nor do they consider Latinos such as Spanish, Portuguese and Italians (and even French) as white.

Scandinavians may be white, but "they ain't like us". Celts (usually defined as Gingers - pronounced Gingas) are reluctantly accepted. So, the only "real" whites are English, Dutch, Belgians, Germans, Austrians and some Russians. And English people don't consider themselves associated with those nationalities either. (apparently I am 25% German, and the only advantage that gives me is that I score 1 in 4 penalties!) But people are so mixed these days, unless someone is overtly different in appearance, white people often can't tell who's who! 

However, some people in T&T assume I am Spanish. I usually first get offended, and then wonder how somebody could be so stupid as to assume I'm Spanish. I may now be classed as a redman due to my tan, but most Spanish people have an entirely different skin tone. Confusing me with a Spaniard is like confusing me with a Japanese in my opinion.

Which is funny considering many white people assume all black people are African unless they have a rass, which, of course makes them Jamaican.

My point to all of this is that whatever race you are from, there will always be people who are stupid enough to categorise people and their traits by their colour.

Now you may think this is wrong, but we all harbour tribal racism to some degree. Many African countries are divided on a tribal basis. Eastern Europe was mashed up over tribal issues. The Indian sub continent is bitterly divided. Trinis aren't like Jamaicans. Trini Indians are different to Trini Africans.

Whether or not my race stole ideas from black people I just don't know. But I know that while peoples of all colours across the world were building great civilisations, we were living in huts. So it just shows that whatever those white supremacists say, the facts don't lie. Maybe Greeks and Romans think they're the mutts nuts, but us Anglos didn't really cause havoc until after we were conquered by the French.

Once we hit the middle ages, we pushed out into the world by practically enslaving our own people and treating them like shit. The same serfdom used to control the filthy masses is very similar to how many developing countries are controlled today (maybe even in T&T to a lesser degree). And Britain still hasn't completely eradicated the class system.

I have no idea if it was Anglos, Latins or whoever who first bought slaves from Africa. All I know is that is was wrong on so many levels and none of my family over the last 3 (at least) generations had anything to do with it.

So why we have to turn a sensible and interesting debate into a cussing match, I don't know. There are some very interesting points being made and I'm certainly learning new stuff. But there is also a lot of hate and bile, none of which is useful as it just makes you switch off.

No one should forget past atrocities, but trying to visit those atrocities on the distant ancestors of those perpetrators just leads to a widening of the divide. We can't make the world all one colour, (at least not for another century or so) but we can eventually eradicate institutional racism. Those individuals that are left should be dealt with as individuals and not representative of their race.

Of course, I'll expect a response to this, but I really hope it is without the name calling and the hatred.

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Re: Was king tut european?
« Reply #43 on: June 22, 2012, 11:53:24 PM »
And here I was thinking that all black people WERE indeed African even when they do have a ras.

lol

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Re: Was king tut european?
« Reply #44 on: June 22, 2012, 11:58:09 PM »
And here I was thinking that all black people WERE indeed African even when they do have a ras.

lol

Point taken. Bad syntax.  :beermug:

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Re: Was king tut european?
« Reply #45 on: June 23, 2012, 12:00:56 AM »
However, some people in T&T assume I am Spanish. I usually first get offended, and then wonder how somebody could be so stupid as to assume I'm Spanish. I may now be classed as a redman due to my tan, but most Spanish people have an entirely different skin tone. Confusing me with a Spaniard is like confusing me with a Japanese in my opinion.

People calling you "spanish" is not the same as confusing you for a Spaniard.  A Spaniard would likely be called "white" in Trinidad, whereas "spanish"  is more equivalent to a Puerto Rican or Venezuelan... aka, a 'red man'.  Just go with it... doh try and make sense outta it, lol.

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Re: Re: Was king tut european?
« Reply #46 on: June 23, 2012, 06:31:03 AM »
Don't mean to over throw the thread but on the idea of Aliens etc. here are some facts on space travel. 
The closest galaxy to ours is 2mill light years away.  Now light speed is 180,000 mps. (Can't remember exactly).   A vessel at light speed would take 2 million years to get here.   Now let's say they are from some star in our own galaxy.  Even if the travel 1million miles a day it would take them 72,000 years to get to earth.  The closet star is called All-  something and it's 27.5 trillion miles from earth. :)
Plus space is not a vacuum anything traveling at speed of light will meet those particles in the form of unbelievable radiation.   So where could they be from?  And what are they? 

And BTW JC that whole white man vs black man idea is a relatively new concept, no more that 4-5 hundred years old.  It's a New World device that worked.  But in the old world it was really about rich and poor and no one could deny the contributions of people with dark skin.  People of color had some many great empires.


What lion said. Man thought the earth was flat at one time. Man only existing just a small part in time. There are planets that were around billions of years before us. That means somewhere out there, somebody has a few billion years advantage over us. There are many things we as humans ain't begin to touch yet. We are new kids on the block. Whether or not we were visited is still up for debate, but I would not doubt it.

Yute, ah don't want tuh come @ yuh hard, but yuh forcing meh hand. bredder, this whole alien thing in regard to ancient civilizations is ah white supremacist conspiracy, trust! the whiteman could only go back as far as the greeks, don't you see that they said the greeks gave the world culture, they was talking bout their culture!

before the greeks there were hundreds if not more "thriving" civilizations on the planet. the ethiopians, the nubians, sumerians all had great civilizations, the chaldeans, the midianites, the chinese, the harrapan civilization in india, the empire of sheba in yemen (saba), the civilization of iram, the city in the desert(petra) and so many more! yet these jokers will go as far as to say that the greeks gave the world culture, what ah big fat fackin lie!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petra

fellas like Socrates, aristotle, plato and pythagoras the thief, all learned from the "ancient" egyptians. mr theiving pythagoras went as far as to say that he's the founder of mathematics, when the sumerians and egyptians were using mathematical equations thousands of yrs before pythagoras.

hippocrates said he was the father of medicine, when imohtep the great was using medicine and performing surgery way before the first man who claim to perform surgery in the european renaissance.

breds, doh get tied up, man aint as fackin stupid as these arseholes would make yuh feel. these ppl hide history science and worldy knowledge all in the name of world dominance. yeh the ancients needed aliens to show them how to build things, but the white race accomplishments all came from intelligence through trial and error right?

BTW, which one is harder to produce, ah fackin aero plane or ah civilization made form clay and big stone?? i would say a plane for sure! ah wonder why no body never claimed an alien may have taught the wright brothers about aero dynamics? :thinking:

Yes I get all yuh points JC, like I said before I was joking with the alien thing from the start, I have no solid proof they were ever here.

(off topic) But my direct response to preacher and his space travel statement is valid. We can't claim we know everything about space, when we don't know everything.
« Last Edit: June 23, 2012, 06:53:43 AM by D.H.W »
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Re: Was king tut european?
« Reply #47 on: June 23, 2012, 07:36:59 AM »
However, some people in T&T assume I am Spanish. I usually first get offended, and then wonder how somebody could be so stupid as to assume I'm Spanish. I may now be classed as a redman due to my tan, but most Spanish people have an entirely different skin tone. Confusing me with a Spaniard is like confusing me with a Japanese in my opinion.

People calling you "spanish" is not the same as confusing you for a Spaniard.  A Spaniard would likely be called "white" in Trinidad, whereas "spanish"  is more equivalent to a Puerto Rican or Venezuelan... aka, a 'red man'.  Just go with it... doh try and make sense outta it, lol.
   :beermug:  Well, if I ever need to, I can claim the World Cup and over the next 2 weeks it might be preferable to being English lol

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Re: Was king tut european?
« Reply #48 on: June 23, 2012, 08:04:21 AM »
  :beermug:  Well, if I ever need to, I can claim the World Cup and over the next 2 weeks it might be preferable to being English lol

When did Venezuela win de World Cup???

 ;D

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Re: Was king tut european?
« Reply #49 on: June 23, 2012, 08:13:25 AM »
  :beermug:  Well, if I ever need to, I can claim the World Cup and over the next 2 weeks it might be preferable to being English lol

When did Venezuela win de World Cup???

 ;D

I'll have to check with the Minister of State in the Ministry of South American Football History to get that info  :angel:

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Re: Was king tut european?
« Reply #50 on: June 23, 2012, 04:18:33 PM »
Quote from: ribbit [quote
yuh had to build alliances back then. that's why when rome came on to the scene, egypt was rome's best friend because they were going to counterbalance the other powers in the region.
Why must you constantly come on the board with yuh personal feelings and yuh simple simon subjective views instead of understanding the nature of the situation and contribute positively to the discourse?

i not trying to win no argument here bro, bc in the end, i have nothing to gain. all i doing is helping to shed light on the situation, although the reality is, and as hard as it is to accept, these greeks were racially motivated, it's totally true, live with it!

as for the (black) egyptians forming alliances with the (white) romans, bro, do you know how many kingdoms were in egypt over their 4,000 yr reign? there were three major kingdoms. the old kingdom, the new kingdom, and between the two kingdoms had two intermediate periods, then egypt suffered a wealth of invasions from outside invaders.

from the hyksos to the persians were outsiders trying to over turn egypt, then the last kingdom was the ptolemaic dynasties who were greek invaders that took  control from the persians.

the egypt you talking bout was from the ptolemaic dynasties, which were 100% greek (white folks). after alexander the battyhole conquered egypt "from the persians" his 2nd in command general ptolemy took rule and established a dynastic for 300 yrs spanning from 332 bce to 30 bc, in the late yrs of the ptolemaic dynasty the romans traded and allied them selves with the greeks for a short time until they were strong enough to finally conquer and took power from the greeks and establish their own rule over egypt.

as for egypt forming alliances with rome, the pharohs of the 18 dynasties and before were firm believers in the fact that they descended from the "gods" and would not share their rulership with mare mortals, so there was absolutely no alliance between the old and new kingdom with rome.

lemme suggest something, instead of rushin gto defend ah ppl who don't give ah fork bout yuh, i recommend learning about a subject before you comment, it real easy too nowadays, all yuh have to do is use google, and you wiil get all the answers you want.  ;)
Quote
why, in a land of such abundance as de congo, dey have the worst civil conflict in the world over the last generation?
bredder, another case of not doing research. man, ppl have been going to war for centuries, especially in place where there were resources in plenty, that is elementary, even a 9 yr old could understand that.

right there in the middleast, ppl have been warring for milleniums over fertile land, water supply, trade routes, hunting territory, but that still don't make them savages. the whiteman's disposition coming out of europe was that of a hungry beast, when they entered warmer climates and saw the abundance of food and minerals, they went nuts!!

they not only wanted to share in it, they wanted it all! these tribes who lived side by side in africa and the middlest did not go around colonizing each other, though they fought wars for centuries, it was never about having a monopoly in the region, but rather over things they needed to survive.

as for the congo and their recent wars, bro don't let your eyes and the media deceive yuh, bc if you look closely, you will find the west as the biggest protagonist behind the scenes of those wars. don't you know that the congo has the most mineral resources in the entire world??

under the soil in the congo lies resources that the common man is not even privy to. the congo has minerals that would propel the world for the next 5,000 yrs, and the west wants to be in total control of it.

there is a mineral that is used in the production of cell phones that only the congo has, among many others. the congo is the key to who rules the world of economics and technology in the future.

so sit there with yuh fackin eyes close and stay deaf, and believe every thing the media feed yuh and don't get up and read and educate yuh self on what's really going on this planet.

 in this white supremacist economic world system and climate, yuh cyar afford tuh sleep, so yuh better stay sharp.
« Last Edit: June 23, 2012, 04:45:53 PM by just cool »
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Offline Conquering Lion

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Re: Was king tut european?
« Reply #51 on: June 23, 2012, 05:03:52 PM »
JC I have always said that you have a wealth of information and many good points but sometimes it is lost in the delivery.....but I get what you saying. People often choose to see what they want to see and ignore the facts before them....like the coltan mines in congo and the mineral wealth of africa.

People made a big thing about the movie blood diamonds (and it has helped things), but ignored the fact the boys in Antwerp controlled the whole thing all along. Instead they choose to focus on the atrocities on the ground in Africa instead of the root cause.

In a sense you are right about egypt history since there were changes in power over time between the north and south where as I recall  the nubians were from the south and of darker complexion..hence the differences in depictions over time. The Greeks and romans came much much later.

With regard to the article, just because it is in JAMA does not make it completely legit. There has to be an analysis of the tests used, reliability etc, if the results were interpreted correctly or if the scientist extrapolated on weak data.

Feel free to correct me.,...
We fire de old set ah managers we had wukkin..and iz ah new group we went and we bring in. And if the goods we require de new managers not supplying, when election time come back round iz new ones we bringin. For iz one ting about my people I can guarantee..They will never ever vote party b4 country

Offline just cool

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Re: Was king tut european?
« Reply #52 on: June 23, 2012, 06:27:39 PM »
JC I have always said that you have a wealth of information and many good points but sometimes it is lost in the delivery.....but I get what you saying. People often choose to see what they want to see and ignore the facts before them....like the coltan mines in congo and the mineral wealth of africa.

People made a big thing about the movie blood diamonds (and it has helped things), but ignored the fact the boys in Antwerp controlled the whole thing all along. Instead they choose to focus on the atrocities on the ground in Africa instead of the root cause.

In a sense you are right about egypt history since there were changes in power over time between the north and south where as I recall  the nubians were from the south and of darker complexion..hence the differences in depictions over time. The Greeks and romans came much much later.

With regard to the article, just because it is in JAMA does not make it completely legit. There has to be an analysis of the tests used, reliability etc, if the results were interpreted correctly or if the scientist extrapolated on weak data.

Feel free to correct me.,...
Bro, in all honesty, i don't care if tut was ah white boy or not, IMO he did shyte for egypt as far as i'm concerned.

i'm really not surprised either, since he came to the end of the great dynasties that preceded him. the pyramids were already build by sneferu and the great khufu, the great monuments and sphinx were already there so who cares.  he was also born after the great conquest of the hyksos, who was an euro asiatic ppl who ruled parts of egypt around the 12th and 13th dynasty 1700s bc so anything is possible.

i know one things for sure, the old kingdom and middle kingdom rulers were black as midnight! fellas like khufu, menkaura, mentuhotep the 2nd and amenemhet the 3rd, was all black african looking kings, and dem fellas was the crowning glory of egypt.
http://wysinger.homestead.com/mentuhotep.html
http://www.ancient-egypt.org/index.html


if the white supremacist want tut, then by all means have him. ;D
« Last Edit: June 23, 2012, 06:54:13 PM by just cool »
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Re: Was king tut european?
« Reply #53 on: June 24, 2012, 08:40:46 AM »
The greeks are credited with being great mathematicians, but early greek writings are devoid of the symbol "0" and without a zero, your math is just based on static measurements. In african culture you find closed loop symbols everywhere and through out all periods of the culture. The Egyptians and the Arabian Peninsular was said to introduce the concept of "zer0" to math. Also the pyramids were built hugely to align with certain astrological formations. Remember before the greeks were discussing philosophy and democracy, Places in Mali were discussing these similar topics on a grandiose scale, medicine was being done also.

I once read that the mythology of the huge stone structures of Easter Island is a representations of their Gods, what does those faces planted through out easter island look like.... not nubian...! I believe that there was a great expansion of knowledge that left Africa during the times of Pharaoh.

I read that there is written evidence of African tribes that spoke a language similar to latin and there are some African names that are really close to chinese, like Gao, Shao, Shin, Huang etc... things that make you go hmmm.
« Last Edit: June 24, 2012, 08:58:00 AM by Daft Trini »

Offline Deeks

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Re: Was king tut european?
« Reply #54 on: June 24, 2012, 12:57:07 PM »
I have read also that the concept of zero or a concept of zero was developed in India and could have been carried to the middle east by muslim scholars.

http://questionswithanswer.blogspot.com/2008/05/who-invented-concept-of-zero.html

The Mayans are said to have developed a concept of zero.

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=history-of-zero

Offline kaliman2006

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Re: Was king tut european?
« Reply #55 on: June 25, 2012, 04:19:19 PM »
This LA Times article from 2005 also illustrates further professional divisions over King Tut's ancestry:

Please note the highlighted portion of the article. Daft Trini, I know that you mentioned that you worked on this project. Do you agree with Ahmed Saleh's claims?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

(Copyright (c) 2005 Los Angeles Times)

Zahi Hawass moves through dim galleries at the Los Angeles County Museum of Art, a sport-coated platoon leader walking the point on a tense patrol.

The face so often smiling in television specials about ancient Egypt is stern. The brown eyes that shine when he's playing raconteur at sold-out lectures about the pyramids and pharaohs radiate cold intensity as he inspects each object in "Tutankhamun and the Golden Age of the Pharaohs."

"These monuments of Egypt are the heritage of everyone," he says later, and he wants them seen in their best light.

Hawass is Egypt's chief antiquities official, the man primarily responsible for the return of Tut's artifacts a generation after they caused a sensation in American museums in the 1970s. Like an ancient high priest, he must see that the pharaoh's touring treasures are properly arrayed.

Just as in the royal tombs, eternity is at stake. But instead of trying to achieve immortality for Tut's body and soul, Hawass wants to speed the rebirth of a torpid bureaucracy on whose vigor the future of Egyptian antiquity depends.

The Egyptian Supreme Council of Antiquities, which Hawass leads as secretary general, is responsible for the country's monuments and museums. But it has long been overshadowed by Europeans and Americans, who have the leading schools of Egyptology and, before Hawass, had run their digs with few restrictions from the impoverished host country.

Now, some Westerners are grumbling about his policies -- especially in England, where his 2003 call for the return of the iconic Rosetta Stone caused alarm. But many are applauding too. Hawass requires archeologists to concentrate on conserving what they've found, rather than digging for new discoveries. And in a field where some love digging more than writing, he insists that finds be published within five years. Otherwise, permit-holders lose the right to keep digging. The result -- less glamour, more desk work, more expense -- has not endeared Hawass to everyone, and his outsized ego makes him an easy target. But experts say that speedy publication expands knowledge and that conservation is a must.

To Hawass, it's all essential if he's to preserve his country's heritage while molding the 30,000-employee antiquities council into a modern priesthood of archeologists, educators and art conservators who will at last make Egypt a leading force in the discovery, protection and display of its ancient riches. He counts on Tut to generate the cash and publicity needed to give his ambitious program a push. Egypt already has received $20 million upfront; he hopes to increase that to $36 million by the end of the 27-month, four-city U.S. tour.

At 58, Hawass has been in charge for three years, with just five more to solidify his initiatives before law mandates he retire. And so, the return of Tut is his moment too. Detractors decry his famous self-promotion; admirers counter that it's his passion and personality that make him effective. Perhaps, they say, his greatest contribution may be that, for the first time, the face of Egyptology is Egyptian.

Hawass is known as an entertaining and exuberant promoter of his nation's antiquities, but to archeological insiders he also is a free-swinging and sometimes autocratic wielder of power.

At the National Geographic Society, where he holds the title of explorer-in-residence, he is known as "The Pharaoh" -- partly, says Tim Kelly, president of the organization's TV division, because he is given to occasional joking threats: "Do this, or I will cut off your head!"

Hawass says nothing as he walks LACMA's Tut layout for the first time, apart from exchanges in Arabic with his six assistants from the Egyptian Museum in Cairo. Then, he enters the final gallery, housing a photographic display dubbed "The Face of Tutankhamun." He stops short, glares from across the room at a latex bust of Tut -- and decides in an instant that he must cut off somebody's head. Specifically, the boy king's. This time, he is not joking.

The Tut head is meant to be the last object in the show, as laid out by its American producers and designers. National Geographic, the tour's creative sponsor, has provided the piece de resistance from a recent TV special in which Hawass presided over the first CT scan of Tut's mummy. Crafted by a French sculptor and forensic anthropologist who worked from the scan, the face already is famous, thanks to television and the cover of this month's National Geographic magazine.

Never mind all that. On this day, the exhibition's opening -- on June 16 -- is just three days away. The model belongs not in a display case, but "in the toilet," Hawass says, shocking an entourage that includes officials from the tour's corporate funder, AEG, and its designer, Arts and Exhibitions International. It's not an authentic art object, he complains, and it's not historic.

"This is an art exhibition. You don't ruin it with speculation." The head can be seen, he decides, but only in photographs. "Then it's perfect."

It's a classic Zahi moment. The sort that puts a fond chuckle in Dorothea Arnold's voice as she speaks by phone from her office at New York's Metropolitan Museum, where she heads the Egyptian art department.

"He's a full person, a full human," says Arnold, who has known Hawass since the 1970s, when she worked on German archeological digs in Egypt. "He's very jolly and very nice to be with, but also he can be very angry. He's not your careful person, and sometimes maybe he goes a bit over. But that's what makes him so inspiring. If you have an outstanding person, maybe you have to live through some more spectacular moments."

Salima Ikram, a Pakistani-born, Bryn Mawr- and Cambridge- educated professor at the American University in Cairo, has worked with Hawass over the last eight years on a variety of projects. She says he can be dictatorial, egotistical and just plain wrong, and he tends to drive his staff and everyone else mercilessly. But he will listen -- really listen -- to those strong enough to stand up to him and make a cogent case for an idea or opinion that contradicts his own. He seeks advice, and logic can win him over.

"It's what makes him charming, as opposed to a pain in the butt," Ikram says.

Hawass' ability to enthrall an audience ranks with an Egyptian flute player's skill at charming a cobra. When he was a small boy, his father would send him -- on the festive nights following the introspective days of Ramadan -- to a sheik who told stories.

Sitting barefoot in a Washington, D.C., hotel room -- to commence the national media blitz before the L.A. opening -- Hawass recalls what it was like to be an overactive 8-year-old gripped by stillness for two hours while an old man told tales from "Arabian Nights."

"I learned from this man the way that you can make people listen," he says.

*

He talks, people listen

A few hours later, several hundred people are listening, laughing, then listening some more as Hawass talks about Tut in an auditorium at National Geographic's Washington headquarters. His accent is heavy, his English syntax sometimes skewed. But his delivery engages.

Summing up the intrigue and mystery surrounding Tut, he says: "It's like a play that we don't know the end of the play." But the recent CT scan has filled in a few blanks. "This machine can change the dead to be alive."

The voice moves from piercing staccato when he's being emphatic or argumentative, to smooth and languid in moments of transport. His energy and focus are unflagging. It's like encountering the Arab equivalent of a first-class Irish yarn spinner. There is no lack of blarney.

Hawass considers himself a scientist and a scholar. His 1987 doctorate in Egyptology from the University of Pennsylvania says he is, and he has made significant discoveries in his 37-year career with the Supreme Council -- especially the tombs of the workers who built the pyramids.

But he's also a showman, an entertainer who knows which routines will grab 'em. "There is no mummy's curse," he'll declare simply. Then he'll detail all the spooky legends that gave rise to belief in a curse, and relate the many near-disasters and eerie coincidences in his own life. The mummy's curse, for Hawass, is what a ball of yarn is to a cat: so easy to unravel and tear apart, but since that would end all the fun, why not just keep poking at it and let it roll?

What enchants on TV doesn't play well in some academic circles, says Dennis Forbes, who as editorial director of KMT: A Modern Journal of Ancient Egypt, has watched -- and sometimes published -- Hawass since launching the quarterly in 1990.

"Some people [think] that a true scholar isn't supposed to be a star," Forbes says. "He's wined and dined and lionized," but that can leave him open to barbs and eye-rolling from the Egyptological cognoscenti.

"Zahi is known for making grand statements that have no basis," Forbes says, such as the oft-repeated contention that 70% of Egyptian antiquity still lies buried and waiting to be discovered. Nevertheless, the North Carolina-based editor counts himself firmly in Hawass' corner. "In my experience, he's the first [antiquities chief] who has really had an impassioned attitude toward the job. He's out there. He's everywhere. How he has the energy to do these things is beyond many people's understanding."

Lorelei H. Corcoran, director of the Institute of Egyptian Art and Archeology at the University of Memphis in Tennessee, says she and her students chuckle sometimes at Hawass' romantic pronouncements. But she wouldn't want him to trade his effusiveness for scholarly caution.

"It's a means to attract attention, excite enthusiasm and gain support for the prosaic things we do every day," she says.

If Hawass is a master at outreach, he's a black belt at infighting.

His loftiest target has been Dietrich Wildung, an eminent scholar who runs the Egyptian Museum in Berlin. In 2003, Hawass announced that Egyptian police had a tape of known antiquities thieves talking about the kinds of things Wildung would be willing to buy from them for his museum's collection.

"The ... authorities have incontrovertible evidence that he was involved in the illegal trafficking and buying of antiquities," Hawass wrote in his column for the English edition of the Egyptian newspaper Al-Ahram. But when asked why Egypt, two years later, still hasn't moved to indict Wildung -- as Italian authorities recently did in bringing a case against Marion True, the J. Paul Getty Museum's curator of antiquities -- Hawass acknowledges that the tapes are hearsay that can't prove a case.

Wildung, once friendly with Hawass, is now banned from excavating in Egypt but denies any wrongdoing. He says Hawass is playing to Egyptian public opinion and perhaps retaliating because Wildung criticized him for empty showmanship on a 2001 TV special that put a robot into a pyramid. "For populistic reasons, he has unfortunately invented these stories, which are 500% against my personal conviction and my understanding as a museum professional," Wildung says from his Munich home.

Hawass and his supporters say that banning foreigners if they break the rules -- as he has done in several cases besides Wildung's -- puts teeth behind policies that are in the best interest not only of Egypt, but also of scholarship and preservation. Others express concern that the big stick the secretary general wields could beat down debate and dissent. An archeologist on the periphery of one of Hawass' battles refuses to talk about him: "I plan to go back to Egypt, and I don't want anything that could hold that up."

Within Egypt, Hawass has been brawling lately with critics who question the methodology of the CT scan of Tut's mummy, and the forensic re-creation of his face. Hawass curbed the authority and docked the pay of one persistent foe, Ahmed Saleh, an archeological inspector for the Supreme Council who complained, among other things, that the procedures used in the facial re-creation made Tut look Caucasian, disrespecting the nation's African roots.

Hawass insists he is not angry, vindictive or power mad; firm enforcement of the rules is essential to prevent chaos, he says, given the hundreds of ongoing archeological projects in Egypt and the continued threat of antiquities theft.

"Yes, it's inflammatory," Willeke Wendrich, a UCLA professor of Egyptian archeology, says of Hawass' willingness to attack perceived rule breakers in the press and ban them from excavating. "Maybe cooperation would be better served if he formulated things slightly differently. But it's counterbalancing what has been going on too long, a colonialist attitude that hasn't disappeared even now. I think the way he acts is partly his personality, but it's partly a reaction to a very arrogant treatment of Egyptians and Egyptian officials."

*

Pondering his legacy

In retirement, Hawass -- married to a gynecologist and father of two sons, a physician and a businessman -- says he looks forward to the less grueling and contentious pursuit of writing up his discoveries for scholarly publication. He hopes to spend more time in L.A., where for six summers, from 1996 to 2001, he was a visiting professor in UCLA's department of Near Eastern languages and cultures. He says the greatest monument he will leave behind is a growing Egyptian corps of well-trained, highly motivated and better- paid archeologists, museum curators, antiquities guards and business managers who can carry on a vision that, ultimately, is too big for one man and one life's work.

Ikram, the Cairo-based professor, who is on the editorial board of a scholarly journal published by the Supreme Council, says that Pharaonic antiquity has meant little to most Egyptians and the pyramids have been nothing but a good place to picnic. But that began to change, she says, on the night in 2001 when Hawass went on live TV to send a little robot through a previously unexplored passageway in the Great Pyramid of Khufu at Giza.

"My maid said, 'Oh my God, did you see that program? Do you see what we have in the pyramids?' " Ikram recalls. "For the first time, there's identification, a great deal of pride and awareness."

As she left for a day of teaching university students and planning museum displays, Ikram says her maid, who previously had shown no interest in her employer's job, said something surprising for an Egyptologist to hear in the land whose ancient history and culture Egyptologists study.

"I'm glad you're doing what you're doing."

(Copyright (c) 2005 Los Angeles Times)

http://guardians.net/hawass/articles/Eternal_Egypt_Is_His_Business.htm

Offline just cool

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Re: Was king tut european?
« Reply #56 on: June 25, 2012, 05:05:21 PM »
Kalliman hawass believes that the ancient egyptians are the acestors of the modern egyptian, that is why he fights down the concept that the ancient egyptians were black.

this man is one of the biggest, if not "the" biggest racist piece of turd in the world! after all these yrs of being in charge and working with pharaonic artifacts and relics, this man still insist that they were not black, after all the experts anthropologist (black and white) findings, this racist arab still insist that the modern egyptians are descended from the old kingdom pharaohs, what ah c#nt!

he's the worst kind of racist, the kind that likes to change the faces of history.
The pen is mightier than the sword, Africa for Africans home and abroad.Trinidad is not my home just a pit stop, Africa is my destination,final destination the MOST HIGH.

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Re: Was king tut european?
« Reply #57 on: June 25, 2012, 07:15:30 PM »
Kalliman hawass believes that the ancient egyptians are the acestors of the modern egyptian, that is why he fights down the concept that the ancient egyptians were black.

this man is one of the biggest, if not "the" biggest racist piece of turd in the world! after all these yrs of being in charge and working with pharaonic artifacts and relics, this man still insist that they were not black, after all the experts anthropologist (black and white) findings, this racist arab still insist that the modern egyptians are descended from the old kingdom pharaohs, what ah c#nt!

he's the worst kind of racist, the kind that likes to change the faces of history.

Trust me, you're preaching to a member of the choir here. Of course, it would make sense that there were European pharaohs, given the Ptolemaic rule of Egypt and the Roman 400-year reign of Egypt. However, what many of these Egyptologists curiously gloss over the fact that the Nubian Empire ruled Egypt from712-664 B.C. Thus, there were nubian pharaohs. However, this fact always seems to be in the background.

« Last Edit: June 25, 2012, 07:18:16 PM by kaliman2006 »

Offline just cool

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Re: Was king tut european?
« Reply #58 on: June 25, 2012, 11:00:57 PM »
Kalliman hawass believes that the ancient egyptians are the acestors of the modern egyptian, that is why he fights down the concept that the ancient egyptians were black.

this man is one of the biggest, if not "the" biggest racist piece of turd in the world! after all these yrs of being in charge and working with pharaonic artifacts and relics, this man still insist that they were not black, after all the experts anthropologist (black and white) findings, this racist arab still insist that the modern egyptians are descended from the old kingdom pharaohs, what ah c#nt!

he's the worst kind of racist, the kind that likes to change the faces of history.

Trust me, you're preaching to a member of the choir here. Of course, it would make sense that there were European pharaohs, given the Ptolemaic rule of Egypt and the Roman 400-year reign of Egypt. However, what many of these Egyptologists curiously gloss over the fact that the Nubian Empire ruled Egypt from712-664 B.C. Thus, there were nubian pharaohs. However, this fact always seems to be in the background.


Now this is the confusing part, bc apart from the nubian Pharaohs (tarharka being one of them) ppl forget that the old kingdom was an extension of nubia, and the first pharonic dynasties were of pure black stock! from menes on down were coal black.

sneferu khufu (the builder of the pyramids) menkaura, mentuhotep. these men were of pure african stock! matter of fact, @ one time in the whole of africa all the way to the fertile crescent all the way to india there was nothing but black skin ppl, some with straight/curly hair and long noses, others with nappy hair and broad noses, it's only until the aryan invasion the region became light skinned, with the greeks and the romans more so.

the only reason africa stayed pure black it's bc in order to get into sub saharan africa was an arduous task so that save black africa from a lot of invasions. the first ppl to really penetrate sub saharan africa was the arab race, then the white race followed suit by way of sea travel, but that whole region @ one time was nothing but the dark race.

i real dislike fellas like haw- ass.
« Last Edit: June 25, 2012, 11:03:35 PM by just cool »
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Offline kaliman2006

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Re: Was king tut european?
« Reply #59 on: June 26, 2012, 07:47:26 PM »
Kalliman hawass believes that the ancient egyptians are the acestors of the modern egyptian, that is why he fights down the concept that the ancient egyptians were black.

this man is one of the biggest, if not "the" biggest racist piece of turd in the world! after all these yrs of being in charge and working with pharaonic artifacts and relics, this man still insist that they were not black, after all the experts anthropologist (black and white) findings, this racist arab still insist that the modern egyptians are descended from the old kingdom pharaohs, what ah c#nt!

he's the worst kind of racist, the kind that likes to change the faces of history.

Trust me, you're preaching to a member of the choir here. Of course, it would make sense that there were European pharaohs, given the Ptolemaic rule of Egypt and the Roman 400-year reign of Egypt. However, what many of these Egyptologists curiously gloss over the fact that the Nubian Empire ruled Egypt from712-664 B.C. Thus, there were nubian pharaohs. However, this fact always seems to be in the background.


Now this is the confusing part, bc apart from the nubian Pharaohs (tarharka being one of them) ppl forget that the old kingdom was an extension of nubia, and the first pharonic dynasties were of pure black stock! from menes on down were coal black.

sneferu khufu (the builder of the pyramids) menkaura, mentuhotep. these men were of pure african stock! matter of fact, @ one time in the whole of africa all the way to the fertile crescent all the way to india there was nothing but black skin ppl, some with straight/curly hair and long noses, others with nappy hair and broad noses, it's only until the aryan invasion the region became light skinned, with the greeks and the romans more so.

the only reason africa stayed pure black it's bc in order to get into sub saharan africa was an arduous task so that save black africa from a lot of invasions. the first ppl to really penetrate sub saharan africa was the arab race, then the white race followed suit by way of sea travel, but that whole region @ one time was nothing but the dark race.

i real dislike fellas like haw- ass.

Also bear in mind that not all Arabs look like the ones that are featured in the media and that are sanitized for white Western audiences. I know many Arabs, who are indigenous to the Middle East (One of them I know actually sports a dreadlocked hairstyle), and who have the same complexion of many African-descended people. However, as I said, this is not palatable for a Western culture that would probably like to see all dark-skinned people disappear off the planet.

This is the issue that Mr. Hawas has and why he cannot stomach the idea of any African connection to Egypt. Under no circumstances can it be revealed that there is an connection to Egypt.  For me the truth is most likely somewhere between the Eurocentric and Afrocentric extremes.

 

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