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Offline Touches

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Govt to remove nursing exam
« on: July 03, 2012, 06:10:31 AM »
 >:( :bs: They looking to kill more people down here now. This is a skilled and a noble profession, now because they can't pass the exam they want to let them in easy...steups. Theory and Practical is two different ting...Put a hand!!!  :pissedoff:

Source Trinidad Express

Govt to remove nursing exam...as it tries to fill over 3,000 vacancies

By Renuka Singh

Story Updated: Jul 3, 2012 at 12:55 AM ECT

GOVERNMENT is moving to remove a practical testing element for nurses to qualify in a bid to fill over 3,000 vacancies in the health sector.

This from Health Minister Dr Fuad Khan yesterday who said the examination overseen by the Nursing Council of Trinidad and Tobago will no longer be necessary for nurses to begin practising at the nation's hospitals once the amendments to the Nursing and Midwives Act are passed in Parliament.

Speaking at a media conference at the Ministry of Health's head office on Park Street, Port of Spain, Khan said between 2009-2012 over 40 per cent of graduating nurses failed the licensing exam.
He said that nurses who fail the exam on three consecutive occasions are permanently disqualified from practising.

Khan said nursing graduates were already holding nursing certificate or Bachelor's degree from a training institution yet the present law mandated that they still sit an examination imposed by the Nursing Council in order to be become registered nurses and practise their profession.

"The removal of this examination will bring the registration and licensing of our nurses in line with other such noble professionals. Our nurses who are trained in Trinidad and Tobago will have automatic registration to practice within Trinidad and Tobago, and those who wish to practice abroad can sit any relevant registration exam to practice in that territory," he said.

"This among other factors has impacted negatively on the Ministry's manpower planning, as there continues to be a serious shortfall in nursing personnel. In order to address this problem and to ensure there is continuous improvement within the health sector, the Ministry is exploring various initiatives," he said.

Khan said while the Ministry has increased its training programmes and now enrolls 300 nursing students, there continues to be a "severe shortage of nurses within our local health system".

Khan said five amendments to the Nurses and Midwives Act, already approved by Cabinet, will also reduce the current size of the Nursing Council.

He said the Nurses and Midwives Act currently stipulates that the Nursing Council consists of 22 people, but he thought that was too large and suggested that it be reduced to 13 people comprising elected, non-elected members and lay people.

To further streamline the training processes, Khan said the Government recently agreed to move all nursing training programmes from the Ministry of Health to the Ministry of Tertiary Education and Skills Training.
A representative of the Nurses Council yesterday said the body will be sending out a media release today, but would not speak on the issue until then.

Valerie Alleyne-Rawlins, president of the T&T Registered Nurses Association yesterday said the licensing exam determined the graduates "fitness" to practice as a nurse. She said she was unaware of the amendments and would only comment when she got more information from the Ministry of Health.


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Offline Michael-j

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Re: Govt to remove nursing exam
« Reply #1 on: July 03, 2012, 06:45:18 AM »
That is absolutely ridiculous! The whole point of having licensing exams is to ensure that those wishing to practice can  demonstrate that they are competent to do so, thus ensuring that the standard of health care delivery is maintained!
If we think the healthcare situation is bad now, wait and see what happens if this comes to pass

Offline Bourbon

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Re: Govt to remove nursing exam
« Reply #2 on: July 03, 2012, 07:00:57 AM »
But why is the failure rate so high?
The greatest single cause of atheism in the world today are Christians who acknowledge Jesus ;with their lips and walk out the door and deny Him by their lifestyle. That is what an unbelieving world simply finds unbelievable.

Offline Jah Gol

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Re: Govt to remove nursing exam
« Reply #3 on: July 03, 2012, 08:43:18 AM »
But why is the failure rate so high?


Quote
Our nurses who are trained in Trinidad and Tobago will have automatic registration to practice within Trinidad and Tobago, and those who wish to practice abroad can sit any relevant registration exam to practice in that territory," he said.

That is the obvious question. How then can the Minister use the fact that they were trained at an accredited institution as grounds for automatic registration if so many people fail the entrance exam ?

Offline Peong

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Re: Govt to remove nursing exam
« Reply #4 on: July 03, 2012, 09:21:08 AM »
wdf ppl go dead in trute.  This is a major step back, I can't comprehend the stupidity.  I've heard of making exams easier to increase the pass rate, but this is a whole level below that.

Offline lefty

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Re: Govt to remove nursing exam
« Reply #5 on: July 03, 2012, 10:22:44 AM »
time to have as many quack nurses as doctors in our hospitals.....steups.......an trust mih we have a high level of "quackery" in we system especially if dey graduated from UWI within d last 10-15 yrs......could have lost my leg 'cause a young intern couldn't or would properly examine my foot some years ago
« Last Edit: July 03, 2012, 10:28:13 AM by lefty »
I pity the fool....

Offline Football supporter

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Re: Govt to remove nursing exam
« Reply #6 on: July 03, 2012, 11:04:33 AM »
10 days ago, my girlfriend was hospitalised at Mount Hope Emergency Ward after suffering from breathing difficulties. The next day they suspected she had a blood clot on her lung.... but they couldn't be sure. They discharged her with a prescription for injections to be self administered into her stomach, twice a day and a list of tests to be taken. She returned to Mount Hope to book the tests and received a date in 2013! For a suspected blood clot on her lung!!

To make matters worse, when she tried to obtain more injections she was told that they had run out. Finally, she travelled to Port Of Spain hospital and filled her scrip there!

What a joke! Now we have to get tests privately. But what about all of those people who can't afford private tests? It made me realise, especially if this had been my child, if I couldn't afford to go private, I'd seriously consider crime to save my childs life.

$2 million for Basketball? Fix the hospitals first!

Offline Bourbon

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Re: Govt to remove nursing exam
« Reply #7 on: July 03, 2012, 12:04:57 PM »
A system is only as good as the people operating it.


It doh HAVE to be so. But people want to rape the system and advantage it and force people to go to their private practice etc.


Now the nurses does take the strain...but....now..with this.....you need to ask yourself.....what shortcomings are there that result in such a failure rate? Especially with a lack of nurses in the system?
The greatest single cause of atheism in the world today are Christians who acknowledge Jesus ;with their lips and walk out the door and deny Him by their lifestyle. That is what an unbelieving world simply finds unbelievable.

Offline zuluwarrior

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Re: Govt to remove nursing exam
« Reply #8 on: July 03, 2012, 02:42:04 PM »
SHAQ, I you are lifting my PM the way you squezing she, if she was to drop a drunken master fart in your face you wiil surely die, that would be the end of your basketball days
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Offline Socapro

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Re: Govt to remove nursing exam
« Reply #9 on: July 03, 2012, 04:23:33 PM »
In celebration of 50 years of independence seems like we want to go 50 years backwards?

But ent the people in T&T vote for this and the opposition is in tatters?!

So no use complaining, we rising!!!  :beermug:
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Offline congo

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Re: Govt to remove nursing exam
« Reply #10 on: July 03, 2012, 05:17:45 PM »
No No No....You all are not seeing the big picture here. By removing this exam from the nurses they remove their ability to be accepted internationally. This basically limits their mobility so in other words they have to eat the bread these DEVILS will be kneading.

So they basically can't even negotiate for better conditions because they become easily replaceable and they have to stay here and take what is given to them.

They feel they too smart. Why don't they also remove the exams at Hugh Wooding and the Medical School?

 I'm sure there are failures there as well.  :bs: :bs:

truetrini

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Re: Govt to remove nursing exam
« Reply #11 on: July 03, 2012, 08:09:30 PM »
No No No....You all are not seeing the big picture here. By removing this exam from the nurses they remove their ability to be accepted internationally. This basically limits their mobility so in other words they have to eat the bread these DEVILS will be kneading.

So they basically can't even negotiate for better conditions because they become easily replaceable and they have to stay here and take what is given to them.

They feel they too smart. Why don't they also remove the exams at Hugh Wooding and the Medical School?

 I'm sure there are failures there as well.  :bs: :bs:


BINGO!!!  That is exactly what they are trying to do.

Offline Touches

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Re: Govt to remove nursing exam
« Reply #12 on: July 04, 2012, 06:29:05 AM »
But by the same token...it means that foreign nurses could come and get a wuk easy too.  :worried:

So is more Phillipino and Cuban in we pwefin.





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Offline Bourbon

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Re: Govt to remove nursing exam
« Reply #13 on: July 04, 2012, 06:30:48 AM »
But by the same token...it means that foreign nurses could come and get a wuk easy too.  :worried:

So is more Phillipino and Cuban in we pwefin.






So how de ones that here already getting to practice? Dey sit the exam and pass?
The greatest single cause of atheism in the world today are Christians who acknowledge Jesus ;with their lips and walk out the door and deny Him by their lifestyle. That is what an unbelieving world simply finds unbelievable.

Offline congo

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Re: Govt to remove nursing exam
« Reply #14 on: July 04, 2012, 05:25:39 PM »
Most likely they would have passed an equivalent examination set by their medical council.

Offline Michael-j

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Re: Govt to remove nursing exam
« Reply #15 on: July 04, 2012, 05:36:55 PM »
But by the same token...it means that foreign nurses could come and get a wuk easy too.  :worried:

So is more Phillipino and Cuban in we pwefin.





I worked briefly with  a few of these nurses in the past and don't have a bad word to say against them....They are actually quite good, very proactive...they show a lot of initiative.

Offline Bourbon

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Re: Govt to remove nursing exam
« Reply #16 on: July 04, 2012, 08:28:29 PM »
Most likely they would have passed an equivalent examination set by their medical council.


Thats the key.

I recently finished training as an Emergency Medical Technican (Basic). While I would (and am) able to work in Trinidad, legislation is coming where we would need to be certified. The most popular standard is the NREMT standard, which is an American exam which all states generally insist that you do. It allows you to do it..and once your certification is current (up to 2 years) when applying for a job, regardless of the state, you simply give your registry number and you can work (depending on the state...that and some other things, but that is the general base line). The NREMT standard kinda is internationally considered as well since it gives a baseline competency for practice.



Does nursing have an equivalent? I heard that the exam allowed nurses to practice with distinction in England etc.

If that is the case...WHY are university graduates failing? I have heard that its more practical...but...from what I know...practicals should be part of their course of study given the nature of the profession.


So where is this problem happening and why?
The greatest single cause of atheism in the world today are Christians who acknowledge Jesus ;with their lips and walk out the door and deny Him by their lifestyle. That is what an unbelieving world simply finds unbelievable.

Offline Bakes

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Re: Govt to remove nursing exam
« Reply #17 on: July 04, 2012, 11:24:42 PM »
No No No....You all are not seeing the big picture here. By removing this exam from the nurses they remove their ability to be accepted internationally. This basically limits their mobility so in other words they have to eat the bread these DEVILS will be kneading.

So they basically can't even negotiate for better conditions because they become easily replaceable and they have to stay here and take what is given to them.

They feel they too smart. Why don't they also remove the exams at Hugh Wooding and the Medical School?

 I'm sure there are failures there as well.  :bs: :bs:


BINGO!!!  That is exactly what they are trying to do.

I cyah believe smart man like you agreeing with that nonsense. Yuh think some foreign jurisdiction allowing Trini nurses to come work in their country on the basis of having passed a Trini exam? Of course not, they would have to pass whatever local certification standards are in place. The exception would be if the foreign jurisdiction considers the Trini certification standards to be equivalent or better than its own. The lack of Trini certification does not bar Trini nurses from moving and working abroad, it just means they now have to pass the foreign certification in order to work there.

As to the larger issue, in a Newsday interview one of these affected individuals attributed the high failure rate to improper training from the degree-granting facility. As I said elsewhere, shocking then that the proposed solution would be to do away with the exam, rather than to improve training at/tighten accreditation of these facilities.

truetrini

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Re: Govt to remove nursing exam
« Reply #18 on: July 05, 2012, 01:44:38 AM »
I am shocked that you do not know that QUALIFIED nurses from Trinidad and Tobago are OFTEN given jobs in the USA...from as far back as the 1980's!  Yes they must pass the NCLEX but they are given a 15 month provisional license and now with this no exam shit they cannot be "registered'" in their home country so that option is now taken away!  OUR EXAM IS MODELED AFTER THE AMERICAN NCLEX!

AND that time there was a great nursing shortage in Trinidad and Tobago as nurses were leaving, and given work permits to fill positions in the USA and Canada!

Indeed one of the major tenets of Vision 20/20 was to prevent nurses and teachers from leaving the shores of T&T.
« Last Edit: July 05, 2012, 01:52:36 AM by truetrini SC »

truetrini

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Re: Govt to remove nursing exam
« Reply #19 on: July 05, 2012, 01:51:55 AM »
Registered nurses are exempt from having to obtain a labor certification, which puts them on a fast track for permanent residence. This profession has been precertified by the Department of Labor because there are not sufficient Americans who are able, willing, qualified and available. A professional nurse may have less than a baccalaureate degree in nursing as long as the nurse has completed a program for professional nurses in his/her country, Canada or the U.S.

Registered nurses as opposed to licensed nurses or practical nurses qualify for the 3rd employment preference if they have had at least 2 years of nursing studies after high school or secondary school and have a nursing license issued by their country and either a certificate from the Commission on Graduates of Foreign Nursing Schools (CGFNS), or a full and unrestricted license to practice professional nursing in the state intended for employment

The CGFNS exam is given several times each year at more than 50 exam locations in the U.S. and worldwide. For information about the CGFNS, the telephone number is 215-349-8767.

Before an immigrant visa or adjustment of status is granted, the Visa Screen Certificate or a certified statement must be obtained from the International Commission on Healthcare Professions (ICHP), a part of the CGFNS.

THE VISA SCREEN CERTIFICATE OR THE CERTIFIED STATEMENT

Professional nurses must pass all 3 sections of the Test of English as a Foreign Language

(TOEFL), or the Michigan English Language Assessment Battery (MELAB), to prove English proficiency. An equivalency evaluation of the nursing credentials such as transcripts of school records, diplomas and licenses is made by ICHP. The Visa Screen Certificate verifies that the applicant has the education, training, license and experience equivalent to American registered nurses; that the documents demonstrated are authentic and unencumbered, and that the applicant is fluent in English and has an appropriate professional license.

In lieu of the Visa Screen Certificate for nurses who completed their nursing education in English that includes Australia, Canada (except Quebec), South Africa, Ireland, New Zealand, the United Kingdom and the U.S., a certified statement may be issued by CGFNS. Starting on July 1, 2002, nurses from Trinidad and Tobago have been granted provisional eligibility for 15 months to apply for the certified statement in place of the Visa Screen Certificate. For the certified statement to be released, the prospective nurse must be licensed in the state of intended employment and shall have passed the National Council Licensure Examination (NCLEX). Each state will establish that the prospective nurse has an authentic and unencumbered foreign license. Within 35 days after receipt of an application, CGFNS must issue the certified statement.

TEMPORARY LICENSE

A temporary license may be issued after the prospective nurse enters the U.S. and registers to take the NCLEX test for permanent licensing. After the nurse arrives in the U.S., and/or obtains permanent residence, an application for NCLEX must be filed immediately and the test must be taken within 30 days of registering. In most states, the temporary permit is issued when the application is filed. Some states do not have temporary licenses. Each state must be checked for its particular licensing requirements. Some states require all foreign nurses to pass the CGFNS; other states require the NCLEX. In all cases, the nurse must address the licensing requirements of the State of intended employment, which usually encompasses passing the NCLEX exam.

Offline Touches

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Re: Govt to remove nursing exam
« Reply #20 on: July 05, 2012, 06:27:09 AM »

http://www.trinidadexpress.com/news/Nursing_Council_defends_exam_-161394985.html



Nursing Council defends exam
By

Story Created: Jul 4, 2012 at 11:58 PM ECT

Story Updated: Jul 4, 2012 at 11:58 PM ECT

The Nursing Council of Trinidad and Tobago (NCTT) yesterday defended the need for a Council-level licensing for graduating nurses.



In what has now become a public war-of-words between the two, Council members Russel Salcedo and David Murphy yesterday took Health Minister Dr Fuad Khan to task for his plans to amend the Nursing and Midwives Act without consultation.

The Council also denied having any previous discussions with Health Minister Dr Fuad Khan and dismissed his quotation of the 40 per cent failure rate for nurses sitting the Council licence exam.

"Unlike if I am at a factory and a tin goes bad I could dump it, we cannot afford to make mistakes and in order to ensure that we do not make mistakes, we must have some method of assessing the individuals competency and aptitude to be a nurse," Salcedo said.

"Any mistake that a nurse makes is either harm to a client or death and that is a critical factor," he added.

Salcedo said the Minister's quotation of the failure rate was also incorrect and instead said they have documents that show a fail-out rate of three to four per cent.

A fail-out rate is the nurses failure of all three chances to pass the Council's licensing exam within a five-year period.

"The Minister made reference to the percentages and some figures were quoted. In 2008, we had a pass rate of 66 per cent, in 2009 we had a pass rate of 89 per cent, in 2010 we had 62 per cent and in 2011 we had 64 per cent," he said.

He said while there were many institutions preparing nurses, they taught a different curriculum.

"The fail-out rate is three to four per cent and when we look at the number of nurses, there's quite a large number passing the system," he said.

"Nurses are being successful, but not being employed," he said.

He asked Khan to explain why there was a shortage, when nurses have passed the licensing exam a year ago and still remain unplaced in public hospitals.

He said that while locally trained and licensed nurses remain unplaced, nurses under a "Government to Government" exchange programme, like Cuba, St Kitts and Nevis, were placed immediately.

In response to those statements though, Khan said in a telephone interview he in fact did meet with the Council when he first assumed office.

Khan said the Council's licensing exam was done to ensure reciprocity of the nurses throughout the Commonwealth.

"For nurses to migrate, they have to have that licence," Khan said, adding that it was that reciprocity that added to the large amount of vacancies in the local health care system.

Khan though said he was not giving up the fight to have the five amendments passed as the "archaic" Council systems needed to change and "adapt to new technology".

He said in the absence of the licence, student nurses would still have to attend schools accredited by the Accreditation Council of Trinidad and Tobago.

"I am ready for the fight," Khan said.

óRenuka Singh


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Offline asylumseeker

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Re: Govt to remove nursing exam
« Reply #21 on: July 05, 2012, 08:06:46 AM »
Spot on TT. What you've addressed is a key structural component of what's at stake.

Regardless of the failure rate, the unaccountable abandon in arriving at this policy outcome is ridiculous ... particularly for a Dr. Fuad Khan. Lamentable.
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Offline Bakes

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Re: Govt to remove nursing exam
« Reply #22 on: July 05, 2012, 09:14:58 AM »
I am shocked that you do not know that QUALIFIED nurses from Trinidad and Tobago are OFTEN given jobs in the USA...from as far back as the 1980's!  Yes they must pass the NCLEX but they are given a 15 month provisional license and now with this no exam shit they cannot be "registered'" in their home country so that option is now taken away!  OUR EXAM IS MODELED AFTER THE AMERICAN NCLEX!

AND that time there was a great nursing shortage in Trinidad and Tobago as nurses were leaving, and given work permits to fill positions in the USA and Canada!

Indeed one of the major tenets of Vision 20/20 was to prevent nurses and teachers from leaving the shores of T&T.

So you arguing just to concede that foreign trained nurses must meet state certification here in the US in order to work? A provisional license is just that... until they pass. If they fail they can't work in that jurisdiction, "registered" or not.
« Last Edit: July 05, 2012, 09:20:39 AM by Bakes »

truetrini

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Re: Govt to remove nursing exam
« Reply #23 on: July 05, 2012, 09:26:26 AM »
There must be some form of accreditation to meter the standard of qualified.  Removal of the exam and thusly, the accreditation stupid the flow.of nurses from TT to europe.and north.america.

No accrediation no provisional license

truetrini

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Re: Govt to remove nursing exam
« Reply #24 on: July 05, 2012, 09:36:38 AM »
By the way a 15 month provisional license is a permit to practice nursing for almost  ayear and a half while rpeparing for the NCLEX.  So yeah for a year and a half you can work as a nurse.  Making 50 US or 50 T&T which you think is a better deal for a year and a half?

Now if the pan tro remove the exam is successful, nurses cyar wuk anywhere even in the Caricom region for a day!

Offline Bakes

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Re: Govt to remove nursing exam
« Reply #25 on: July 05, 2012, 01:57:38 PM »
There must be some form of accreditation to meter the standard of qualified.  Removal of the exam and thusly, the accreditation stupid the flow.of nurses from TT to europe.and north.america.

No accrediation no provisional license

You didn't read what you post or what?

Quote
In lieu of the Visa Screen Certificate for nurses who completed their nursing education in English that includes Australia, Canada (except Quebec), South Africa, Ireland, New Zealand, the United Kingdom and the U.S., a certified statement may be issued by CGFNS

If Trini nurses are "registered" then they can bypass the Visa Screen Certificate requirement and apply for a "certified statement" attesting to the fact that they are qualified to practice. While that application is pending they can be issued the provisional license. If they are not registered then a Visa Screen Certificate is required as part of their immigration application, lack of registration does not bar them from coming to the US to work as you assert... it doesn't "stupid the flow" lol

Where I agree with you is that it imposes a greater than necessary hardship by taking the pro isional license out the picture but that ( your entire second post) is a red herring, no one here, certainly not I, is arguing in favor of the exam's removal. I'm just disagreeing with you and. Onto that this is manifestation of some kinda plot to limit overseas employment prospects for nurses. If implemented this will not limit opportunities for long term employment any more than with the examination in place, it just means that Trini applicants will have to apply for the VSC and wait before they can work at all, just like applicants from most other countries.

truetrini

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Re: Govt to remove nursing exam
« Reply #26 on: July 05, 2012, 09:48:36 PM »
Listen it does limit employment opportunity.  And yes it amounts to a plot.  Why would anyone in their right mind remove an accreditation exam especially for such a skill sensitive profession?

There is copious evidence that we lose many nurses and teachers to foreign markets.

Additioanlly, not only to developed nations but also to our Caricom neighbours.   Now that T&T they want to remove the exam, they will also remove regional accreditation...thus restricting and impacting employment opportunities.

Offline Socapro

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Re: Govt to remove nursing exam
« Reply #27 on: July 05, 2012, 10:01:30 PM »
Listen it does limit employment opportunity.  And yes it amounts to a plot.  Why would anyone in their right mind remove an accreditation exam especially for such a skill sensitive profession?

There is copious evidence that we lose many nurses and teachers to foreign markets.

Additioanlly, not only to developed nations but also to our Caricom neighbours.   Now that T&T they want to remove the exam, they will also remove regional accreditation...thus restricting and impacting employment opportunities.
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Offline Bakes

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Re: Govt to remove nursing exam
« Reply #28 on: July 05, 2012, 10:17:50 PM »
Listen it does limit employment opportunity.  And yes it amounts to a plot.  Why would anyone in their right mind remove an accreditation exam especially for such a skill sensitive profession?

There is copious evidence that we lose many nurses and teachers to foreign markets.

Additioanlly, not only to developed nations but also to our Caricom neighbours.   Now that T&T they want to remove the exam, they will also remove regional accreditation...thus restricting and impacting employment opportunities.

You need to step your game up, simply repeating the same talking points over and over again doesn't make your argument any more persuasive.  There must be something akin to facts to substantiate the ridiculous claim that this somehow a plot to keep nurses local.  How then, were that the case, to explain the  la by the head of the examination council that many registered nurses are still finding it hard to find work locally? Or do you then argue that govt is trying to flood the local nursing supply so as to keep wages low?

Removing the exam simply denies local nurses an automatic entre into whichever foreign market accepted the Trini certification as being good enough. Without that certification the opportunity to work regionally or elsewhere doesn't go away, instead Trini nurses would have to OTHERWISE satisfy whatever criteria the foreign jurisdiction has in place for all other nurses. You are making it seem as though passing the exam is the ONLY way to get work overseas, when the very info you posted says otherwise. Confronted with that you simply repeat your unproven claim in a more authoritative voice, as though I'm supposed to cower before your word, lol
« Last Edit: July 05, 2012, 10:21:47 PM by Bakes »

truetrini

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Re: Govt to remove nursing exam
« Reply #29 on: July 05, 2012, 10:31:58 PM »
I can ask why did numerous studies lament the fact that so many nurses are leaving our shores for better wages abroad?