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Offline FireBrand

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Turtle tragedy
« on: July 09, 2012, 10:31:08 AM »


Turtle tragedy...thousands of hatchlings crushed to death
By: Kim Boodram (Trinidad Express).

 
THOUSANDS of leatherback hatchlings were crushed to death at the weekend as the Ministry of Works used excavators to redirect the Grande Riviere River, at the north east coast.

The Ministry had been called in when the river, running west, eroded most of the beach front, threatening the stability of several homes and hotels.

The community was horrified, though, when excavation work began Saturday without their knowledge on what is the most nest-intensive part of the beach.

Among those buildings under threat was the Mt Plaisir Estate Restaurant and Hotel, the most popular tourist accommodation during turtle nesting season.

The Ministry was called in two weeks ago by hotel owner Piero Guerrini.
The massacre that took place over the past two days was not the help that was expected.
"It is so unfortunate and there are so many mixed feelings," Guerrini said.
"This is a shock. On the one hand the erosion needed to be stopped but what has happened here is not right," he said.

Marc deVerteuil, of Papa Bois Conservation said the debacle could have been avoided with proper land zoning and co-ordination between relevant agencies.

Sherwin Reyz, a member of the Grand Riviere Environmental Organisation, spent yesterday salvaging those hatchlings that were still alive – and clearing the beach of hundreds of dead ones.

Brought to tears several times, Reyz contended that the river mouth could have been opened without that part of the beach being torn up.

"You think they had to do this?" Reyz said.

"This is the worst set of destruction I have ever seen by humans on turtles."

Reyz was among those in the community who began a rescue mission early yesterday and by evening had saved abut 500 hatchlings.

The babies were kept in a cool dugout area behind Mt Plaisir hotel, to be released last night.

Among them could be seen those who had been too badly injured and would clearly not make it.

On the beach, hundreds of eggs could be seen, some crushed and some rolling in the surf. Here and there, hatchlings could be seen fighting for life, some still partially in the shell.

Excavation work went on all day in what is classed by conservationists as zone four of Grande Riviere, which is just over a kilometre long and is the third most prolific sea turtle nesting site in the world.

Len Peters, head of Turtle Village Trust, said while yesterday's toll was unfortunate, much of the nesting area had already been lost to the river.

Peters said there was also sometimes a compromise to be made when animals and people share the same space. In this case, the welfare of the community had to be considered.

Peters said the weekend's tragedy should not have happened in the first place, since the river had started to swing west since December last year.

Repeated attempts to have the course redirected since then were futile, he said, and the Ministry waited too late to act.

"This intervention was necessary," Peters said.

"We would have lost more nesting space eventually. We didn't lose a lot of eggs, although this is an engineering disaster. At the very least, the EMA (Environmental Management Authority) should have been present to direct this operation."
« Last Edit: July 09, 2012, 12:18:09 PM by FireBrand »
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Offline ZANDOLIE

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Re: Turtle tragedy
« Reply #1 on: July 09, 2012, 10:57:43 AM »
banana republic ting. thank god for the few people with the foresight to conserve the few eggs left.
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Offline Football supporter

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Re: Turtle tragedy
« Reply #2 on: July 09, 2012, 11:41:00 AM »
As usual, government departments rushing in to correct a problem that is 6 months old. There should have been consultations, planning and volunteers on hand to move eggs and hatchlings. We wonder why tourism is not better. Hear this;

If , in December, govt announced a major restructuring work to redirect the river and save the world's third most prolific turtle nesting site, there would have been hundreds of volunteers fly in to assist. Plus, the work may have been supervised and paid for by environmental and wildlife charities. There may even have been funds to really improve the site for visitors and community alike.

Its just a case of thinking through a problem and finding a soloution that not only benefits all stakeholders, but is also cost effective or even cost positive. In other countries, they call this "good governance"

This vexes me. Not because I'm a turtle hugger, but because this was a totally thoughtless act...and another example of T&T receiving bad press (even if it is just in the green press)
« Last Edit: July 09, 2012, 11:43:16 AM by Football supporter »

Offline Mr Fix-it

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Re: Turtle tragedy
« Reply #3 on: July 09, 2012, 11:58:29 AM »
As usual, government departments rushing in to correct a problem that is 6 months old. There should have been consultations, planning and volunteers on hand to move eggs and hatchlings. We wonder why tourism is not better. Hear this;

If , in December, govt announced a major restructuring work to redirect the river and save the world's third most prolific turtle nesting site, there would have been hundreds of volunteers fly in to assist. Plus, the work may have been supervised and paid for by environmental and wildlife charities. There may even have been funds to really improve the site for visitors and community alike.

Its just a case of thinking through a problem and finding a soloution that not only benefits all stakeholders, but is also cost effective or even cost positive. In other countries, they call this "good governance"

This vexes me. Not because I'm a turtle hugger, but because this was a totally thoughtless act...and another example of T&T receiving bad press (even if it is just in the green press)

LOL at turtle hugger...Back to the point, yu think all stakeholders didn't know the information you posted, dem men jus say do it and doh worry, hotel falling into the water, lets fix that problem first.  Yu think the backhoe operator didn't know dat he/she was working in a turtle nesting ground.  From de first time they see eggs or babies, all work should have stopped and the right ppl should have been called to clear the area.  Government needs to step up and really hold themselves accountable for de sh*t that happened.
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Offline Socapro

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Re: Turtle tragedy
« Reply #4 on: July 09, 2012, 12:13:54 PM »
Another example of why I was forced to create this thread the other day:

Is T&T a country run by nincompoops bent on taking us 50 years backwards?
http://www.socawarriors.net/forum/index.php?board=1.0
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Offline Bakes

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Re: Turtle tragedy
« Reply #5 on: July 09, 2012, 12:38:12 PM »
Part of me want to laugh at the utter and complete incompetence exhibited here... if it wasn't so sad.  Where Dinho and the rest of Jack supporters who claim he's the most this and most that Minister?  Or this doesn't count since it happen 10 days after his oversight ended?

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Re: Turtle tragedy
« Reply #6 on: July 09, 2012, 12:49:57 PM »
Part of me want to laugh at the utter and complete incompetence exhibited here... if it wasn't so sad.  Where Dinho and the rest of Jack supporters who claim he's the most this and most that Minister?  Or this doesn't count since it happen 10 days after his oversight ended?

Or alternatively, it DIDN'T happen during the last 6 months of his tenure as Action Man  :beermug:

Offline weary1969

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Re: Turtle tragedy
« Reply #7 on: July 09, 2012, 01:54:15 PM »
Animals and all seein trouble wit these peeps. Is a good ting we went when we did.
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Offline Deeks

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Re: Turtle tragedy
« Reply #8 on: July 09, 2012, 05:56:15 PM »
When Curepe Jr sec was built by the bank of the St. Joseph river, the contractor fill up the bathing pools when they were doing constucttion. The main civil engineer of that project did not care about and/or did not know the importance of the St. Joseph river. Did you know the Spanish sailed up that river to the back of where the church stands now. there is a flat part where we use to play football and cricket called the valley. When I saw the river at farm road, I almost cried. I shook my head in pity and asked my partner to drive away.

Offline D.H.W

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Re: Turtle tragedy
« Reply #9 on: July 09, 2012, 07:04:05 PM »
Trinidad leatherback turtle hatchlings crushed

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-18778013
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Offline ZANDOLIE

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Re: Turtle tragedy
« Reply #10 on: July 09, 2012, 08:43:41 PM »
Trinidad leatherback turtle hatchlings crushed

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-18778013

unforking believable. yet another international embarrasment. ignoring the obvious ecological issues, how much money does the presence of just one of these creatures bring in for the community on an annual basis? might as well just burn money while they at it. real c**hole move dey.
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Offline Peong

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Re: Turtle tragedy
« Reply #11 on: July 09, 2012, 09:11:46 PM »
In a natural setting only a fraction of those hatchlings make it to adulthood, so the number of turtles they prevented from surviving to adulthood is much less than the pile of turtles yuh see in the pic there.
Doh kill meh please, I just makin a point.

Offline Bakes

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Re: Turtle tragedy
« Reply #12 on: July 09, 2012, 09:19:02 PM »
 
Trinidad leatherback turtle hatchlings crushed

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-18778013

unforking believable. yet another international embarrasment. ignoring the obvious ecological issues, how much money does the presence of just one of these creatures bring in for the community on an annual basis? might as well just burn money while they at it. real c**hole move dey.

The cruel irony is that the hotel primarily makes it's revenue from turtle watchers (if I read the article correctly), and it was to save this self-same hotel (owned by an Italian, it would seem) that is now the cause of the deaths of the turtles.  Talk about killing the goose that laid the golden egg.

In a natural setting only a fraction of those hatchlings make it to adulthood, so the number of turtles they prevented from surviving to adulthood is much less than the pile of turtles yuh see in the pic there.
Doh kill meh please, I just makin a point.

The 'point' yuh making is beyond ridiculous.  The reason why nature has allowed the leatherback to evolve to produce so many offsprings is so that a fair number will survive the travails faced by newborn hatchlings.  By decimating the population of hatchlings the number of survivors will necessarily be much lower than normal.  The focus shouldn't be on what numerical count typically survives versus how many died at the hands of these incompetent ignoramuses... the focus should be on the mortality rate of the hatchlings. 

If, hypothetically speaking, only 10% make it to adulthood and the typical brood (if that is what it's called) yields 1000 hatchlings, then that's 100 adults added to the population count this year.  If these fools killed 300 hatchlings then only 70 are likely to survive to adulthood, threatening the stability of the population of leatherbacks from this region.
« Last Edit: July 10, 2012, 05:13:04 AM by Bakes »

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Re: Turtle tragedy
« Reply #13 on: July 09, 2012, 10:49:06 PM »
I met the hotelier when I went to Grand Riviera in November. Very hospitable guy. There was a torrential rainfall and although we were not patronising his bar, he allowed us to shelter there alongside paying guests. 

He told us that he originally visited as a tourist and loved the place so much, he sold up and moved here. At that time he was lamenting the shortsightedness of the locals and the regional corporation. He said the locals left lots of litter and homeless people were allowed to live on the beach and pester tourists. Although he had sympathy with the locals standard of living, he pointed out that if investment was made in the area, far more eco tourists would come and this would increase income for the locals.

I've visited this area several times and I feel its one of the most beautiful areas of Trinidad. I love the fact that you can bathe in the river and follow its course to the sea.

We played a VFI game up there and the locals were great, laying on a sound system for an impromptu party for the evening.

Sometimes I feel that T&T believes that the only gold in the country is oil and gas, when there are so many more treasures to share with the world and bring in dollars.

Offline Socapro

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Re: Turtle tragedy
« Reply #14 on: July 10, 2012, 12:09:40 AM »
I met the hotelier when I went to Grand Riviera in November. Very hospitable guy. There was a torrential rainfall and although we were not patronising his bar, he allowed us to shelter there alongside paying guests. 

He told us that he originally visited as a tourist and loved the place so much, he sold up and moved here. At that time he was lamenting the shortsightedness of the locals and the regional corporation. He said the locals left lots of litter and homeless people were allowed to live on the beach and pester tourists. Although he had sympathy with the locals standard of living, he pointed out that if investment was made in the area, far more eco tourists would come and this would increase income for the locals.

I've visited this area several times and I feel its one of the most beautiful areas of Trinidad. I love the fact that you can bathe in the river and follow its course to the sea.

We played a VFI game up there and the locals were great, laying on a sound system for an impromptu party for the evening.

Sometimes I feel that T&T believes that the only gold in the country is oil and gas, when there are so many more treasures to share with the world and bring in dollars.
Looks like it’s only when the oil and gas run out that this regular Pappy Show nonsense is going to done!  :-[
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Offline ZANDOLIE

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Re: Turtle tragedy
« Reply #15 on: July 10, 2012, 01:11:14 AM »
In a natural setting only a fraction of those hatchlings make it to adulthood, so the number of turtles they prevented from surviving to adulthood is much less than the pile of turtles yuh see in the pic there.
Doh kill meh please, I just makin a point.

Yellow card  :devil: To add to Bakes point the leatherback is a k-selected species, meaning it reproduces in low numbers and can reach critical population levels very easily. And turtle eggs are extremely sensitive to temperature. In fact they undergo temperature dependent sex-selection. So the relocation efforts while well meaning expose the eggs to changes in temperature that affect the balance between males and females. That may be no big deal for common reptiles, but this is an internationally recognized endangered species worth a LOT of money. And believe it or not, Trinidad is one of the planet's top nesting and viewing sites for leatherbacks. No matter how you slice it that was a thoughtless, assinine move.   
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Offline ZANDOLIE

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Re: Turtle tragedy
« Reply #16 on: July 10, 2012, 01:19:46 AM »
Trinidad is known to be critical for survival of turtles. They even mention us in the Wikipedia entry on leatherbacks.

From wikipedia.org

"Earthwatch Institute, a global non-profit that teams volunteers with scientists to conduct important environmental research, launched a program called "Trinidad's Leatherback Sea Turtles." This program strives to help save the world's largest turtle from extinction in Matura Beach, Trinidad, as volunteers work side-by-side with leading scientists and a local conservation group, Nature Seekers. This tropical island off the coast of Venezuela is known for its vibrant ethnic diversity and rich cultural events. It is also the site of one of the most important nesting beaches for endangered leatherback turtles, enormous reptiles that can weigh a ton and dive deeper than many whales. Each year, more than 2,000 female leatherbacks haul themselves onto Matura Beach to lay their eggs. With leatherback populations declining more quickly than any other large animal in modern history, each turtle is precious. On this research project, Dr. Dennis Sammy of Nature Seekers and Dr. Scott Eckert of Wider Caribbean Sea Turtle Conservation Network work alongside a team of volunteers to help prevent extinction of Leatherback Sea Turtles."

http://www.earthwatch.org/exped/sammy.html

Seems everybody else appreciates the beauty and vitality of the country except the people who live there
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Offline Jumbie

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Re: Turtle tragedy
« Reply #17 on: July 10, 2012, 06:27:13 AM »
Sad..very sad!

Now that the deed is done, can this (exposure) work to help in conservation and protection? Wait.. is Trinidad we dealing with here, so expect nothing to change.



Divers will know the shape of our reef as well.. imagine people used to walk on them not too long ago.

Offline weary1969

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Re: Turtle tragedy
« Reply #18 on: July 10, 2012, 07:51:29 AM »
It was reported on the tv6 news that the EMA said that the reports in the press was largely exaggerated. i would think 1 egg being crushed would b 2 much. Another day in this 2x4 green fig republic. I guess the EMA have to sing for their supper.
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Offline Deeks

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Re: Turtle tragedy
« Reply #19 on: July 10, 2012, 08:07:38 AM »
I just heard the news again on NPR. We reached when you hear something on National Public Radio.

Offline lefty

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Re: Turtle tragedy
« Reply #20 on: July 10, 2012, 08:27:22 AM »
It was reported on the tv6 news that the EMA said that the reports in the press was largely exaggerated. i would think 1 egg being crushed would b 2 much. Another day in this 2x4 green fig republic. I guess the EMA have to sing for their supper.

"it was hundreds  and not thousands"...I was like WTF dese people cyar be serious.......I wonder if ah trini public officer holder will ever have d integrity to say "Is my fault, ah fuuck up, I take full responsibility" .......steups
I pity the fool....

Offline FireBrand

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Re: Turtle tragedy
« Reply #21 on: July 10, 2012, 11:17:37 AM »
Hundreds of baby turtles killed in botched earth works but...
Rondon happy with work at Grande Riviere.
By: Cherisse Moe (Trinidad Guardian).


Earth works to realign the Grande Riviere river to prevent soil erosion has caused the death of hundreds of baby leatherback turtles. The river has been blocked and rerouted but at a great cost to the turtle population which is the focus of ecotourism in the area.

CEO of the Environmental Management Authority (EMA) Dr Joth Singh says the EMA did its best to help save the turtles of Grande Riviere, although hundreds were killed during excavation to re-route the river over the weekend. The work brought relief to Grande Riviere residents whose properties were being threatened by the river, which had changed its direction  from south to west,eroding the beach. The re-routing came at a huge cost. Hundreds of turtles and hatchlings were destroyed.  Singh was on his way to Grande Riviere to assess the damage when contacted yesterday morning. He said despite receiving guidance last week from Piero Guerrini, owner of the Mt Plaisir Estate Hotel, whose property was being threatened, the Ministry of Works crew who carried out the work did not follow directions. “The intent of re-routing the river was to prevent further damage and protect the rest of the beach, where there are still turtle nests, and also to save properties,” he said. “It's unfortunate that intervention was not done in the proper fashion. “But the damage has been done. I’m interested in seeing the condition of the hatchlings which were recovered, to see what we can do.”

Singh said while he could not speak for other ministries and agencies which Guerrini had previously contacted for help, the EMA moved quickly to rectify the problem. “He spoke to the EMA on Wednesday and we were there on Thursday, and work began over the weekend,” Singh said. However, Guerrini, who described the situation as an environmental travesty, said the crew that did the work did more harm than good. About 200 of the 400 villagers directly benefit from eco-tourism—a major element of which is the leatherback turtle egg-laying season. “Turtles were struggling to come up on the sand. They were dying. I could see the destruction but there was nothing I could have done. It was too late,” said Guerrini. “They cannot continue to operate in an environmental area like if they are building a highway. Yes, they closed the river and stopped the erosion, but at what cost?” Guerrini said the army brought in the excavator and bulldozer, the machinery needed to re-route the river, on Friday evening and work began on Saturday morning. Although workers were told to excavate the lower end of the beach, he said they “did their own thing,” resulting in the death of hundreds of turtles. “They bulldozed the highest part of the beach to make a big pile of sand. They pushed the sand into the river to block the river mouth—but in doing so, they dug on top of the turtle and hatchling nests. They totally disregarded the turtles,” Guerrini said. “You could see the turtles trying to come out. Hundreds of nests were damaged. “Of course they would have seen it, but nobody, even from the turtle groups, intervened to stop them. When I went to the beach on Sunday, I was shocked. “There were many tourists on the beach and most of them had cameras. They were looking on in horror. I’m sure they will be talking about this disaster all over the world.”

Guerrini said he expected the problem to recur soon, as no permanent barrier was constructed to prevent the river from changing its course again and doing more damage to the area. “They used sand, so if there is a heavy rain again, it will go back to how it was. They needed to put something like a boulder to stop it.”

Councillor for Toco/Fishing Pond Terry Rondon, said while he was not present during the excavation, there was nothing the workers could have done to avoid killing the turtles. Calling on Guerrini and residents to look at the bigger picture, Rondon said the army and the workers should be congratulated for their efforts. “There are turtles throughout the beach, so there was no way they could have avoided that situation. I was the first politician to visit the area three weeks ago, and I am humbly apologising for it, but there is nothing we could have done,” said Rondon. “Hotels going, people losing their jobs—I know the struggles of the north-east coast. “It took that army truck two days to get up here. But at the end of the day, you are hearing they didn’t follow instructions. “Residents should be thankful. I want to tell the workers that they did a good job. I am happy with it, very happy with it.”
« Last Edit: July 10, 2012, 11:19:44 AM by FireBrand »
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Offline Peong

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Re: Turtle tragedy
« Reply #22 on: July 10, 2012, 11:56:27 AM »
In a natural setting only a fraction of those hatchlings make it to adulthood, so the number of turtles they prevented from surviving to adulthood is much less than the pile of turtles yuh see in the pic there.
Doh kill meh please, I just makin a point.

The 'point' yuh making is beyond ridiculous.  The reason why nature has allowed the leatherback to evolve to produce so many offsprings is so that a fair number will survive the travails faced by newborn hatchlings.  By decimating the population of hatchlings the number of survivors will necessarily be much lower than normal.  The focus shouldn't be on what numerical count typically survives versus how many died at the hands of these incompetent ignoramuses... the focus should be on the mortality rate of the hatchlings. 

If, hypothetically speaking, only 10% make it to adulthood and the typical brood (if that is what it's called) yields 1000 hatchlings, then that's 100 adults added to the population count this year.  If these fools killed 300 hatchlings then only 70 are likely to survive to adulthood, threatening the stability of the population of leatherbacks from this region.

So you think that I am not talking about the mortality rate? Ok then.
Ok maybe there's confusion because I referenced number of turtles in the picture, but you have to know that I'm talking about the mortality rate.

I would like to see more pictures of the scene.  I remember how the river used to run and it's not a big beach so there's not much room for it to meander. Express is a failure with their two little pics.  Nobody post up a gallery of the scene?
« Last Edit: July 10, 2012, 12:03:12 PM by Peong »

Offline Deeks

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Re: Turtle tragedy
« Reply #23 on: July 10, 2012, 12:10:14 PM »
I wonder if this could have been done manually. See if we had National Service. All them out of work yutes would be doing that instead of heavy machinery.

Offline Bakes

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Re: Turtle tragedy
« Reply #24 on: July 10, 2012, 12:57:49 PM »
So you think that I am not talking about the mortality rate? Ok then.
Ok maybe there's confusion because I referenced number of turtles in the picture, but you have to know that I'm talking about the mortality rate.

I would like to see more pictures of the scene.  I remember how the river used to run and it's not a big beach so there's not much room for it to meander. Express is a failure with their two little pics.  Nobody post up a gallery of the scene?

Right because I'm a mind reader.  Even IF you were talking about the mortality rate, the focus of your argument remains misplaced.  It shouldn't be how much they killed versus how much would have died anyway... it should be on how much they killed unnecessarily.  Nature's murderous hand didn't need any help.

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Re: Turtle tragedy
« Reply #25 on: July 10, 2012, 01:02:32 PM »
Quote
Nature's murderous hand didn't need any help.

Turtle Taliban.  ;)


Offline Peong

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Re: Turtle tragedy
« Reply #27 on: July 10, 2012, 03:22:52 PM »
So you think that I am not talking about the mortality rate? Ok then.
Ok maybe there's confusion because I referenced number of turtles in the picture, but you have to know that I'm talking about the mortality rate.

I would like to see more pictures of the scene.  I remember how the river used to run and it's not a big beach so there's not much room for it to meander. Express is a failure with their two little pics.  Nobody post up a gallery of the scene?

Right because I'm a mind reader.  Even IF you were talking about the mortality rate, the focus of your argument remains misplaced.  It shouldn't be how much they killed versus how much would have died anyway... it should be on how much they killed unnecessarily.  Nature's murderous hand didn't need any help.

Apply a mortality rate to a population and you get a number, no mind reading necessary to understand that.
See that's where you went wrong, I not makin an argument.  Just stating something that nobody else mentioned. Ridiculous eh?

Offline Bakes

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Re: Turtle tragedy
« Reply #28 on: July 10, 2012, 03:35:50 PM »
Apply a mortality rate to a population and you get a number, no mind reading necessary to understand that.
See that's where you went wrong, I not makin an argument.  Just stating something that nobody else mentioned. Ridiculous eh?

The only ostensible "point" yuh was trying to make is that most of these turtles would have died anyways, so the harm isn't as great as it's being made out to seem.  Good luck convincing yuhself that that line of thinking (since yuh not making any argument) has merit.

Offline chinee boi

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Re: Turtle tragedy
« Reply #29 on: July 10, 2012, 03:44:48 PM »
when i see this on canadian news i shake my head.  People's comments were i never going to Trinidad ever again!  Bad publicity!!!!

 

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