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Author Topic: 2012 Boys & Girls SSFL & InterCol Thread.  (Read 37783 times)

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Offline asylumseeker

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Re: 2012 Boys & Girls SSFL & InterCol Thread.
« Reply #300 on: November 28, 2012, 08:23:38 PM »
Pres has sent out an update that they will not be playing the replay.
While I agree with not playing I am interested to hear the reasons for not playing

A letter was sent to Jaiks making specific mention to the safety concerns for the players and staff.  Mention was also made of the psychological effect on the players themselves, bearing in mind that the team was in preparation to play a final since last week Wednesday.  Exams have already started and the players have their academic duties to perform.  We at Pres are grooming youngsters for life and not just for football. The letter would have also hinted at the spurious and inconsistent decisions taking by the south zone SSFL regarding the way Shiva Boys found themselves in the finals in the first place.

Another thing is that the Referees Association had indicated that they were not going to send any officials to play over the game.  I don't know if talks with the TTFF has resolved this issue as yet.

Amen.
"It is not possible to make successful policy in a state of ignorance or indifference to what goes on in the real world." --- Martin Daly.

Offline asylumseeker

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Re: 2012 Boys & Girls SSFL & InterCol Thread.
« Reply #301 on: November 28, 2012, 08:37:54 PM »
Too much drama and meetings yesterday to make any posts.  I could now give my account of what happened in the game on Monday.

I reached the stadium about 3:15pm on Monday. At first I thought the game was called off again as there were about 10 cars in the car park and the stadium was almost deserted. No tassa, no drums, no horns, no setta people.  I sat in the first top seat of the lower (uncovered) section of the covered stands.  Mr. Godfrey Adams...the same man who caused the fracas sat in the isle seat opposite me...only the stairs between us.  There were two other guys there at the time.  No one seemed to know each other but conversation started up.  Adams started by saying that Shiva was an attacking team and Pres was a more defensive team so we were in for a good game of football.  Others started to put in their own two cents.  A little while later the female stadium security officer came and told him to remove his feet from the back of the seats in front of him.  He willingly obliged and profusely apologized to her.  (I say this is a cool fella boy...he ent give the woman no back talk). By then a lot of Shiva supporters were filling up the seats nearby.  They came looking for seats in a hostile mood, saying they ent want no Pres supporters near here.  Anyway the game started and I realised that I in hostile territory and I moved to sit on the isle seat to at the other end...more Presmen there.

My synopsis of the game...  The referee started off good.  There were some questionable decisions at times but you get that at every game.  I thought that some calls were unwarranted and he could have let the game go one without the stoppages, as they seemed to be very minor infringements.  Of course that is from my perspective in the stands.  The good thing though was that he was VERY consistent in his calls...for both teams.  The thing was that most of the infringements went against Shiva Boys who were showing to be more aggressive in their approach. They were showing as though they wanted it more than Pres in the early stages.  Pres gradually got more involved in the game and won a penalty that was put away. That was the first big issue the crowd had with the referee, but it was a good call in my opinion.  In the second half was more of the same from the ref. Funny thing is that there were some tackles by both teams that I thought another ref would have shown yellow cards for, but this one just spoke to the players.  The turning point came when a Shiva midfielder was shown a yellow card for the manner in which he challenged for the ball.  He extended his leg to win a 50-50 ball with studs showing, the ref now trying to stamp his authority on the game issued the yellow.  That started to rile the crowd and a youthman walked down the steps at the side of me cussing and saying he go make a jail today.

All through the second half Mr Adams by now drinking beers that came in the stadium from who knows where, cause they not allowed to sell beers, and or glass bottled drinks in the stadium at school events.  He was cussing at some of the decisions, and the same policeman who dive and tackle him was behind me with a female officer.  They were contemplating approaching him, but didn't, taking into consideration the atmosphere and everything.  Is when the clock started winding down and the linesman refused to raise his flag for what they thought was a hand ball in the Pres area...all hell break loose (slow mo replay showed there was no handball).  Adams say he cyah take it no more and he go buss the muddah so and so head today.  The mudda talk is what get the police moving one time.  They started down the steps next to me, but Adams was already nearly down to the bottom of the steps.  Usually there is security by the bottom stairs leading unto the track, but there were none there that day, so he had free access to the field.  All the time I thought the man just grandcharging eh.  Is when I see him walking across the track and emptying the contents of the Stag bottle as he approaching the linesman whose back was turned...I say nah this man serious boy.  Well  :busshead: he connect the bottle behind the linesman head, and that started the melee. The linesman did well to defend himself though. 

More police came on the scene and fight break out between police and angry spectators.  One police draw he gun and crowd scatter one time, except for the modern badboys who take off they jersey and daring the police to shoot them in front of the crowd. 

We later learnt that the linesman is a Prisons Officer, which is why he was able to defend himself so.  I just wondering if Adams get put away for a couple weeks or months...crapo smoke he pipe in whichever prison they send him to... :whip: :whip: :whip:


Both of these things are absolute foolishness that in a less permissive environment would have dire consequences.
"It is not possible to make successful policy in a state of ignorance or indifference to what goes on in the real world." --- Martin Daly.

Offline Raul

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Re: 2012 Boys & Girls SSFL & InterCol Thread.
« Reply #302 on: November 28, 2012, 08:38:58 PM »
'Shiva' is the Hindu God of destruction...

Offline Bakes

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Re: 2012 Boys & Girls SSFL & InterCol Thread.
« Reply #303 on: November 28, 2012, 08:49:53 PM »
There should be legislation that recognizes attacks on match officials, coaches etc as a separate and specific offence above and beyond generic assault etc.

Bakes?

There's precedent for that. Typically simple assault requires an act or attempted act that causes bodily injury, and simple assault becomes aggravated assault if the act involves a weapon, or otherwise causes serious bodily injury.  When simple assault is committed against certain individuals however, it becomes aggravated assault, irrespective as to whether a weapon is used, or as to the nature of the injuries.  Consider the following statutory language, typical of what you'd normally find in most US jurisdictions:



Quote
§ 2702.  Aggravated assault.
        (a)  Offense defined.--A person is guilty of aggravated
     assault if he:
            (3)  attempts to cause or intentionally or knowingly
        causes bodily injury to any of the officers, agents,
        employees or other persons enumerated in subsection (c), in
        the performance of duty;
           ------
        (c)  Officers, employees, etc., enumerated.--The officers,
     agents, employees and other persons referred to in subsection
     (a) shall be as follows:
            (1)  Police officer.
            (2)  Firefighter.
            (3)  County adult probation or parole officer.
            (4)  County juvenile probation or parole officer.
            (5)  An agent of the Pennsylvania Board of Probation and
        Parole.
            (6)  Sheriff.
            (7)  Deputy sheriff.
            (8 )  Liquor control enforcement agent.
            (9)  Officer or employee of a correctional institution,
        county jail or prison, juvenile detention center or any other
        facility to which the person has been ordered by the court
        pursuant to a petition alleging delinquency under 42 Pa.C.S.
        Ch. 63 (relating to juvenile matters).
            (10)  Judge of any court in the unified judicial system.
            (11)  The Attorney General.
            (12)  A deputy attorney general.
            (13)  A district attorney.
            (14)  An assistant district attorney.
            (15)  A public defender.
            (16)  An assistant public defender.
            (17)  A Federal law enforcement official.
            (18)  A State law enforcement official.
            (19)  A local law enforcement official.
            (20)  Any person employed to assist or who assists any
        Federal, State or local law enforcement official.
            (21)  Emergency medical services personnel.
            (22)  Parking enforcement officer.
            (23)  A magisterial district judge.
            (24)  A constable.
            (25)  A deputy constable.
            (26)  A psychiatric aide.
            (27)  A teaching staff member, a school board member or
        other employee, including a student employee, of any
        elementary or secondary publicly funded educational
        institution, any elementary or secondary private school
        licensed by the Department of Education or any elementary or
        secondary parochial school while acting in the scope of his
        or her employment or because of his or her employment
        relationship to the school.
            (28)  Governor.
            (29)  Lieutenant Governor.
            (30)  Auditor General.
            (31)  State Treasurer.
            (32)  Member of the General Assembly.
            (33)  An employee of the Department of Environmental
        Protection.
            (34)  An individual engaged in the private detective
        business as defined in section 2(a) and (b) of the act of
        August 21, 1953 (P.L.1273, No.361), known as The Private
        Detective Act of 1953.
            (35)  An employee or agent of a county children and youth
        social service agency or of the legal representative of such
        agency.
            (36)  A public utility employee or an employee of an
        electric cooperative.

The rationale for extending protection to these individuals is that they are providing a service of intrinsic value to the community (my words, but same basic idea), and therefore they need added protection in the performance of their duties.  Not sure that I would agree with adding match/game officials to that list... not convinced that the service they provide rises to the same level as the 'enumerated' individuals above.

Offline Tallman

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Official Response to the SSFL by Presentation College
« Reply #304 on: November 28, 2012, 10:10:14 PM »
28th November, 2012.
 
Mr. Azard Khan
General Secretary
Secondary Schools Football League
 
u.f.s. Mr. Gerard Elliot
Secretary
South Zone Secondary Schools Football League
 
Dear Sir,
 
It is with grave concern that I view the decision taken by the SSFL that the disrupted South Zone Intercol Final between Presentation College, San Fernando and Shiva Boys’ College be replayed.
 
My investigations have revealed a frightening sequence of events that transpired at the game played on Monday 26th November, 2012 at the Mannie Ramjohn Stadium, events that appear to have been pre- planned and orchestrated. Your decision to have the teams replay the game will not only condone criminal behaviour but may actively encourage it. It may well become the practice for the supporters of teams that are behind on score sheets to indulge in hooliganism and criminality in order to disrupt games if they perceive that this will work in favour of their teams by forcing replays.
 
Any investigation will show that no students or fans of Presentation were involved in the activities that disrupted the game. Indeed, the violent attack on the assistant referee occurred after some Shiva supporters had decided that one of our players had committed an infraction. When the assistant referee did not signal an infringement, this did not find favour with the supporters of the Shiva Boys team. I need not remind you of the issues of crime and violence that face our nation at this time.
 
As leader of an educational institution, I cannot be party to the message that is being sent to the nation at large that violence can be overlooked in the interest of achieving one’s aims. I am sure that the fatal stabbing of a student outside the Mannie Ramjohn Stadium in 2009 after a secondary school match cannot possibly have escaped your memory. I am also seriously disturbed by a radio report on the incident which revealed that the alleged attacker had said that he was very upset that the game result appeared to be going in favour of Presentation College.
 
The argument that the loyalty of the alleged perpetrator could not be ascertained must surely be brought into question now. If it is proven that he did, indeed, make this admission, the only possible just decision with regard to the match result must rule that Presentation College, San Fernando are the rightful winners of the match. To insist that Presentation College San Fernando should participate in a replay of the game defies all principles of justice and fair play. We are, therefore, not going to be party to this transgression of justice and we will not be participating in the farce which is being perpetrated upon us.
 
I wish to add, at this point, that I have not been invited to be a party to any investigation into the incident. Additionally, there has been, to the best of my knowledge, no comprehensive investigation into the incident. Surely questionable conduct on the part of the SSFL, to put it mildly.
 
It would be remiss of me if I did not use this opportunity to raise additional concerns that I have about the conduct of the SSFL.
 
The SSFL has consistently failed to provide an environment that prioritizes the safety of players, fans and officials at games. After the disrupted match on Monday 26, no attempt was made by the SSFL officials to bring any sense of calm or order in the face of the chaos that ensued. No attempt was made to ensure that the players, officials or the spectators should be protected from any further violence or danger. No announcement was forthcoming other than that the match had been “cancelled” and that spectators should leave the stadium. The SSFL has failed to provide a comprehensive plan to ensure the safety of our students during any further participation in this year’s competition despite the unfortunate and tragic events of the competition’s past. I have always been especially concerned with post-game security in the environs of the different stadia/ playing fields and this year’s incident and that of 2010 indicate that my concerns are well placed.
 
Furthermore, the inconsistencies in the decision-making process both regarding the playing/re- scheduling of games and the manner in which these decisions are communicated to schools by the SSFL have created unnecessary controversy within the league. Many of these inconsistencies may well be regarded as instances of injustice or, at the very least, bias by the schools participating in the games.
 
You should also be aware that the now extended duration of the league competition has placed our students/athletes at a disadvantage in terms of the successful completion of their academic curriculum this term. In fact, our students’ performance in their end of term examinations is being seriously affected by this seemingly unending series of re-scheduled matches. This is of grave concern to all the stakeholders of our school and should also be to any organizations which prioritise the players’ overall wellbeing and development over other concerns.
 
I also wish to underscore the fact that the additional costs we have had to incur with postponements and suggested replays have placed a heavy financial burden on an already strained school budget. I remind you also of the costs we have had to shoulder this season with regard to payments for a Police presence at our home games, a cost which should have rightly been borne by the SSFL.
 
I would like to wish the SSFL all the best and look forward to the opportunity to contribute to any reformation of systems that can effectively manage school football in Trinidad and Tobago.
 
Sincerely
Errol Jaikaransingh
Principal Secondary
 
c.c. The Permanent Secretary, Ministry of Education
Chairman, Catholic Education Board of Management
Brand Marketing Coordinator, Coca Cola Caribbean Bottlers, Trinidad and Tobago
Head of Public Affairs, BGTT
The Conquering Lion of Judah shall break every chain.

Offline asylumseeker

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Re: 2012 Boys & Girls SSFL & InterCol Thread.
« Reply #305 on: November 28, 2012, 10:23:13 PM »
There should be legislation that recognizes attacks on match officials, coaches etc as a separate and specific offence above and beyond generic assault etc.

Bakes?

There's precedent for that. Typically simple assault requires an act or attempted act that causes bodily injury, and simple assault becomes aggravated assault if the act involves a weapon, or otherwise causes serious bodily injury.  When simple assault is committed against certain individuals however, it becomes aggravated assault, irrespective as to whether a weapon is used, or as to the nature of the injuries.  Consider the following statutory language, typical of what you'd normally find in most US jurisdictions:



Quote
§ 2702.  Aggravated assault.
        (a)  Offense defined.--A person is guilty of aggravated
     assault if he:
            (3)  attempts to cause or intentionally or knowingly
        causes bodily injury to any of the officers, agents,
        employees or other persons enumerated in subsection (c), in
        the performance of duty;
           ------
        (c)  Officers, employees, etc., enumerated.--The officers,
     agents, employees and other persons referred to in subsection
     (a) shall be as follows:
            (1)  Police officer.
            (2)  Firefighter.
            (3)  County adult probation or parole officer.
            (4)  County juvenile probation or parole officer.
            (5)  An agent of the Pennsylvania Board of Probation and
        Parole.
            (6)  Sheriff.
            (7)  Deputy sheriff.
            (8 )  Liquor control enforcement agent.
            (9)  Officer or employee of a correctional institution,
        county jail or prison, juvenile detention center or any other
        facility to which the person has been ordered by the court
        pursuant to a petition alleging delinquency under 42 Pa.C.S.
        Ch. 63 (relating to juvenile matters).
            (10)  Judge of any court in the unified judicial system.
            (11)  The Attorney General.
            (12)  A deputy attorney general.
            (13)  A district attorney.
            (14)  An assistant district attorney.
            (15)  A public defender.
            (16)  An assistant public defender.
            (17)  A Federal law enforcement official.
            (18)  A State law enforcement official.
            (19)  A local law enforcement official.
            (20)  Any person employed to assist or who assists any
        Federal, State or local law enforcement official.
            (21)  Emergency medical services personnel.
            (22)  Parking enforcement officer.
            (23)  A magisterial district judge.
            (24)  A constable.
            (25)  A deputy constable.
            (26)  A psychiatric aide.
            (27)  A teaching staff member, a school board member or
        other employee, including a student employee, of any
        elementary or secondary publicly funded educational
        institution, any elementary or secondary private school
        licensed by the Department of Education or any elementary or
        secondary parochial school while acting in the scope of his
        or her employment or because of his or her employment
        relationship to the school.
            (28)  Governor.
            (29)  Lieutenant Governor.
            (30)  Auditor General.
            (31)  State Treasurer.
            (32)  Member of the General Assembly.
            (33)  An employee of the Department of Environmental
        Protection.
            (34)  An individual engaged in the private detective
        business as defined in section 2(a) and (b) of the act of
        August 21, 1953 (P.L.1273, No.361), known as The Private
        Detective Act of 1953.
            (35)  An employee or agent of a county children and youth
        social service agency or of the legal representative of such
        agency.
            (36)  A public utility employee or an employee of an
        electric cooperative.

The rationale for extending protection to these individuals is that they are providing a service of intrinsic value to the community (my words, but same basic idea), and therefore they need added protection in the performance of their duties.  Not sure that I would agree with adding match/game officials to that list... not convinced that the service they provide rises to the same level as the 'enumerated' individuals above.

Scrolling back up the thread, it seems that Arimaman has that protection where he is. Not sure whether it is a minority of states that have the protection but it applies elsewhere ... for instance, in North Carolina under N.C. Gen. Stat. sect. 14.33 (b)(9).

(I'll paste the language rather than reference when the device I'm using more easily permits.)

« Last Edit: November 28, 2012, 10:24:52 PM by asylumseeker »
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Offline Bakes

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Re: 2012 Boys & Girls SSFL & InterCol Thread.
« Reply #306 on: November 28, 2012, 11:41:28 PM »
Scrolling back up the thread, it seems that Arimaman has that protection where he is. Not sure whether it is a minority of states that have the protection but it applies elsewhere ... for instance, in North Carolina under N.C. Gen. Stat. sect. 14.33 (b)(9).

(I'll paste the language rather than reference when the device I'm using more easily permits.)



Yeah it seems that the grading is more serious if yuh assault a ref in NC:

Quote
(9)        Commits an assault and battery against a sports official when the sports official is discharging or attempting to discharge official duties at a sports event, or immediately after the sports event at which the sports official discharged official duties. A "sports official" is a person at a sports event who enforces the rules of the event, such as an umpire or referee, or a person who supervises the participants, such as a coach. A "sports event" includes any interscholastic or intramural athletic activity in a primary, middle, junior high, or high school, college, or university, any organized athletic activity sponsored by a community, business, or nonprofit organization, any athletic activity that is a professional or semiprofessional event, and any other organized athletic activity in the State.

Again... not sure I agree with that.

---------------

As for the Jaikaransingh letter Tallman post above...

Quote
My investigations have revealed a frightening sequence of events that transpired at the game played on Monday 26th November, 2012 at the Mannie Ramjohn Stadium, events that appear to have been pre- planned and orchestrated.

Nothing from what Pardners post suggests that this was pre-planned.  One or two Shiva fans just let the moment get to them and took leave of their senses.  I think a replay at a neutral site is a fair consequence, and Shiva should be forced to play a number of games either at away sites or all their fans otherwise banned from some of their matches next season.

Offline Flex

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Shiva to meet Tigers in InterCol semis.
« Reply #307 on: November 29, 2012, 03:37:54 AM »
Shiva to meet Tigers in InterCol semis.
T&T Guardian Reports.


Shiva Boys was handed a spot in the Secondary Schools Football League (SSFL) National Coca-Cola InterCol semifinal against title-holder and North champion, St Anthony’s College, after it was awarded the win by default in its semifinal match against Presentation College, which was ordered to be replayed, yesterday.
 
Presentation College of San Fernando, followed through on statements made by vice-principal Preston Kissoon that it will not replay the semifinal encounter with Shiva which was abandoned in the 80th minute on Monday, following the invasion of the field at the Manny Ramjohn Stadium, Marabella, by a spectator which resulted in assistant referee Kevin Charles, sustaining a head injury.
 
At that time, Presentation was ahead 2–1 and ten minutes away from completing the South Zone League and InterCol double. However following the incident, a decision was first made by the SSFL executive to play the final ten minutes of the match, which was also scheduled to be played, yesterday.
 
But later on, the T&T Football Federation (TTFF), the body responsible for all football in T&T, advised the SSFL that the South Zone InterCol final be replayed in its entirety, behind close doors. A decision which Presentation also objected to.

In a release from the SSFL assistant secretary, Gerald Elliot, stated its executive was informed via letter from the Principal of Presentation College, San Fernando that the team would not be participating in the rescheduled match on Wednesday (yesterday) at the Manny Ramjohn Stadium.
 
As a consequence, the SSFL made a decision to award the outcome of the SSFL South InterCol final to Shiva Boys, which now faces the “Westmoorings Tigers” in the national semifinal tomorrow with the match being shifted from Marabella to the Hasely Crawford Stadium, Mucurapo, for the right to face East Zone champion, St Augustine Secondary, in the national final on Monday at a venue to be determined.
 
With regards to Charles, the SSFL said it would like to empathise with him and his team, who were involved in the incident.
 
The release also stated that “at these matches, the safety of all our stakeholders, players, spectators and referees are paramount to the SSFL and as such there were a 12 police officers, 15 private security officers and an ambulance with two paramedics in attendance while similar is provided at all other matches held under the auspices of the SSFL executive.”


Shiva Boys’ Shaquille Jogie, left, tries to evade Presentation College’s Yohance Alexander during the InterCol South Zone final at the Manny Ramjohn Stadium in Marabella on Monday. Presentation was ahead 2–1 when the match ended in the 80th minute after assistant referee Kevin Charles was attacked by a spectator. PHOTO: TONY HOWELL

The real measure of a man's character is what he would do if he knew he would never be found out.

Offline Flex

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Re: 2012 Boys & Girls SSFL & InterCol Thread.
« Reply #308 on: November 29, 2012, 03:46:10 AM »
Grayson: The Boys did well under the circumstances.
By KEVIN SUNICH (Newsday).


ST AUGUSTINE head coach Michael Grayson was elated after his team claimed a hard fought 4-3 win from penalty kicks against Chaguanas North in the Coca Cola Secondary Schools Football League (SSFL) National Intercol semi-final on Tuesday at the Ato Boldon Stadium, Couva.

“Gustine” had to come from behind twice to make it 2-2 at the end of regulation against a determined Chaguanas team which was on a high heading into the encounter having taken care of Carapichaima in the quarter-finals.

The “Green Machine” which will return to the final after a couple of years, went into the encounter without four of their players including skipper Shannon Gomez who were all in camp with the National U-17 team which departed for the Cali, Colombia yesterday.

The TT team will be competing in the 11th Tournament of the Americas which runs until the December 10.

“We were not sure if we were going to perform the way they were accustomed to since we were missing the players. We were tentative at the start of the match which resulted in us throwing away the first chance a one on one with the keeper.

Nevertheless the boys played well enough especially in the second half when they started putting the ball on the ground and that was the deciding factor as we were able to keep possession and move the ball around,” said Grayson.

While he will be without the U-17 players for the final the “Gustine” coach feels that his present squad has what it takes to get them the National Intercol title. “We just have a couple days to get ready but I think the boys are prepared enough to handle which ever team we meet in the final.”

Grayson said he will be dealing specifically in the goal scoring area when he takes his team through their final couple of sessions. “We have to work on this area since we need to come out with a win. With one game to go either we put them away and win or we throw them away and loose so that is where our work will centre around for this final,” said the coach.

The real measure of a man's character is what he would do if he knew he would never be found out.

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Re: 2012 Boys & Girls SSFL & InterCol Thread.
« Reply #309 on: November 29, 2012, 03:49:19 AM »
SSFL decision wrong says former Fifa instructor.
T&T Guardian Reports.


Former FIFA and Concacaf referee’s instructor Desmond Downer has questioned the Secondary School Football League (SSFL) for its decision to replay only the final ten minutes of the Coca-Cola South Zone InterCol final between Shiva Boys’ Hindu College and Presentation College of San Fernando, after it was abandoned on Monday.
 
The match was called off after an altercation between assistant match referee Kevin Charles and a spectator, with Presentation leading 2-1. Following a meeting with executive members of the SSFL yesterday, it was decided to complete the last ten minutes behind closed doors.
 
Downer, third vice-president of the T&T Football Referees Association (TTRFA), said yesterday that the Fifa regulations, which the league encompasses, states that the match should be replayed, not restarted.
 
Downer cited Law 7 of the Fifa “Laws of the Game,” which states: “An abandoned match is replayed unless the competition rules provide otherwise.” The SSFL rules, however, do not specify whether an abandoned match should be replayed or continued, neither does the constitution, according to one senior league executive, Gerald Elliot.
 
Contacted, Ewing Davis, SSFL president, chastised the actions of the unruly spectator but offered neither agreement nor disagreement with the former top official, saying he would prefer to have a personal discussion with Downer before making any further statements.
 
Davis added that the match “technically was not abandoned,” and should be continued rather than restarted. He implied that the officials deemed that the match was unable to be completed but ought to be continued at a later date.
 
“The SSFL does not condone violence between schoolchildren, and it is unfortunate that it (the assault) occurred, but we will be having discussions to ensure that incidents such as those do not reoccur,” said David.
 
Although the incident resulted in clashes between police and students, it stemmed from the attack on the official from a man who appeared to be in his 30s. When asked whether such incidents would affect the number of willing referees at SSFL matches, Davis replied, “I would not want to believe so. I think if that’s the case, T&T would be setting a bad precedent.”

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Offline Bakes

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Re: 2012 Boys & Girls SSFL & InterCol Thread.
« Reply #310 on: November 29, 2012, 04:56:01 AM »
Guardian good yes... "Desmond" Downer.


...as for ordering the full-match replay, can't blame the League for that.  Presentation decide not to participate... to what end?

Offline asylumseeker

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Re: 2012 Boys & Girls SSFL & InterCol Thread.
« Reply #311 on: November 29, 2012, 05:08:45 AM »
In principle, the Tigers should show solidarity with Pres and let Shiva lift the title with an asterisk.
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Re: 2012 Boys & Girls SSFL & InterCol Thread.
« Reply #312 on: November 29, 2012, 05:56:28 AM »
pres also received a letter on the 28th saying the game is to be replayed "at 4pm tomorrow"..so game should really be played today! The SSFL is just a waste, they can't get simple things such as a letter right. Copy of the letter is on FB
That is one of the ellis twins in the pic..not Alexander.
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Re: 2012 Boys & Girls SSFL & InterCol Thread.
« Reply #313 on: November 29, 2012, 06:09:21 AM »
Pardners may be able to answer this. But has contact been made with the schools left in the competition? I don't expect them to boycott and stand with pres as asylumseeker suggests but would say something if they even play under protest to show that they disagree with how things have gone
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Re: 2012 Boys & Girls SSFL & InterCol Thread.
« Reply #314 on: November 29, 2012, 06:39:18 AM »
Pardners may be able to answer this. But has contact been made with the schools left in the competition? I don't expect them to boycott and stand with pres as asylumseeker suggests but would say something if they even play under protest to show that they disagree with how things have gone

allyuh need to wake up...play under protest for what?  u think they care about what happened in the south zone?  the real issues here are safety and the SSFL poor administration but u think st augustine and st anthonys thinking about the big picture?  they thinking about winning a national intrecol title and nothing else.

i hope shiva collect about 10 goals in dey tail but if they losing all they have to do is storm de field and slap de ref and get a replay.

Offline Football supporter

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Re: 2012 Boys & Girls SSFL & InterCol Thread.
« Reply #315 on: November 29, 2012, 07:13:44 AM »
So, if I understand this correctly, Presentations stance towards violence has shown every schoolchild that violence is actually very productive. After all, Pres was winning 2-1 and now Shiva are in the semis.

This whole thing is a mess. You can't blame the Shiva team for the actions of their fans, but this was an ideal opportunity to show supporters, and school children, that violence doesn't pay.

Everyone involved here should receive an "F" grade.

Offline Deeks

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Re: 2012 Boys & Girls SSFL & InterCol Thread.
« Reply #316 on: November 29, 2012, 07:29:26 AM »
Times have changed. The SSFL, the stadium authority and the security services have to set strict rules and guidelines. After that, enforce the law. For intercol, no alchohol to be sold period.

Offline Deeks

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Re: 2012 Boys & Girls SSFL & InterCol Thread.
« Reply #317 on: November 29, 2012, 07:32:01 AM »
'Shiva' is the Hindu God of destruction...

Don't blame Shiva. Blame it on those who can't hold their liquor. TT is one kind of a weird place. A Hindu school where almost 90 percent of footballers appear not to be Hindus. What a paradise!!!. This is not tong-in-cheek!

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Re: 2012 Boys & Girls SSFL & InterCol Thread.
« Reply #318 on: November 29, 2012, 07:38:06 AM »
We later learnt that the linesman is a Prisons Officer, which is why he was able to defend himself so.  I just wondering if Adams get put away for a couple weeks or months...crapo smoke he pipe in whichever prison they send him to... :whip: :whip: :whip:


So what yuh saying... de ability tuh windmill yuh arms and swing from behind yuh back is a prerequisite among Prisons Officers?

I will take this is an attempt at humour Bakes.  ::)
'...de ability tuh windmill yuh arms and swing from behind yuh back' as you put it, is not a prerequisite among Prisons Officers, but the manner of response to a threat is the main thing.  And yes they trained to use their baton in a particular way.  Who knows another linesman might've chosen to run, maybe even pelt the flag at the man and then choose to go hand to hand combat with the assailant.
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Re: 2012 Boys & Girls SSFL & InterCol Thread.
« Reply #319 on: November 29, 2012, 07:58:18 AM »
Pardners may be able to answer this. But has contact been made with the schools left in the competition? I don't expect them to boycott and stand with pres as asylumseeker suggests but would say something if they even play under protest to show that they disagree with how things have gone

There were some discussions with other schools, but not to deal with the issue of playing under protest.  It was more in line with the administration of the league and some decisions by the SSFL.  It was more like the coaches bouncing ideas off each other.
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Offline real madness

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Re: 2012 Boys & Girls SSFL & InterCol Thread.
« Reply #320 on: November 29, 2012, 08:01:49 AM »
Pardners may be able to answer this. But has contact been made with the schools left in the competition? I don't expect them to boycott and stand with pres as asylumseeker suggests but would say something if they even play under protest to show that they disagree with how things have gone

There were some discussions with other schools, but not to deal with the issue of playing under protest.  It was more in line with the administration of the league and some decisions by the SSFL.  It was more like the coaches bouncing ideas off each other.

Pardners,

What happened yesterday? According to the Newsday (http://www.newsday.co.tt/sport/0,169915.html) both teams did not show up.  Other media outlets state Shiva won by default.

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Re: 2012 Boys & Girls SSFL & InterCol Thread.
« Reply #321 on: November 29, 2012, 08:09:01 AM »
Pardners may be able to answer this. But has contact been made with the schools left in the competition? I don't expect them to boycott and stand with pres as asylumseeker suggests but would say something if they even play under protest to show that they disagree with how things have gone

There were some discussions with other schools, but not to deal with the issue of playing under protest.  It was more in line with the administration of the league and some decisions by the SSFL.  It was more like the coaches bouncing ideas off each other.

Pardners,

What happened yesterday? According to the Newsday (http://www.newsday.co.tt/sport/0,169915.html) both teams did not show up.  Other media outlets state Shiva won by default.

I can't speak for Shiva, but we got a letter dated 28th Nov, saying that the game was to be replayed in its entirety tomorrow (meaning today 29th Nov).  However, there was a meeting with Gerald Elliot in the college yesterday (28th Nov) where he was alluding to the fact that they really meant to replay the game yesterday self on the 28th.  He felt quite embarrassed when he was told that all Pres had to do was show up in uniform today (29th) at the stadium and win the game on a technicality.  I have to assume though that Shiva would have gotten a similiar letter with the same date.

Pres was always of the conviction that they would not be participating.  Apart from the letter from the Principal, I believe an official protest was lodged against the SSFL decision to replay the game.  Last I heard is that they would meet to determine the outcome of the protest.  It's my strong belief though...based on how they have interacted with us over the past couple seasons...that the protest will not amount to anything.
« Last Edit: November 29, 2012, 08:13:06 AM by pardners »
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Offline Tallman

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Re: 2012 Boys & Girls SSFL & InterCol Thread.
« Reply #322 on: November 29, 2012, 09:09:59 AM »
Courtesy of Pres Watch

BREAKING NEWS: Minister of Sports Anil Roberts has called an emergency meeting with Presentation principal Errol Jaikaransingh and Shiva boys Principal Dexter Sakal.
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Re: 2012 Boys & Girls SSFL & InterCol Thread.
« Reply #323 on: November 29, 2012, 09:13:36 AM »
Courtesy of Pres Watch

BREAKING NEWS: Minister of Sports Anil Roberts has called an emergency meeting with Presentation principal Errol Jaikaransingh and Shiva boys Principal Dexter Sakal.

wonder what will be the outcome of this

Offline pardners

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Re: 2012 Boys & Girls SSFL & InterCol Thread.
« Reply #324 on: November 29, 2012, 09:18:07 AM »
Courtesy of Pres Watch

BREAKING NEWS: Minister of Sports Anil Roberts has called an emergency meeting with Presentation principal Errol Jaikaransingh and Shiva boys Principal Dexter Sakal.

wonder what will be the outcome of this

Let's wait and see  :-\
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Offline asylumseeker

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Re: 2012 Boys & Girls SSFL & InterCol Thread.
« Reply #325 on: November 29, 2012, 11:12:20 AM »
The Ministry of Education should have a seat @ today's meeting, no?
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Offline Bakes

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Re: 2012 Boys & Girls SSFL & InterCol Thread.
« Reply #326 on: November 29, 2012, 03:00:59 PM »
I will take this is an attempt at humour Bakes.  ::)
'...de ability tuh windmill yuh arms and swing from behind yuh back' as you put it, is not a prerequisite among Prisons Officers, but the manner of response to a threat is the main thing.  And yes they trained to use their baton in a particular way.  Who knows another linesman might've chosen to run, maybe even pelt the flag at the man and then choose to go hand to hand combat with the assailant.

Attempt at humor yes... because that linesman didn't show no kinda discipline or training in how he responded to the threat.  Apparently the sheer fact that he didn't turn heel and run away is a sign of training to you, but in the least I would expect to see him negate the threat more effectively than just pelting handbags.  Did he even throw one punch that landed?  He didn't even self ketch he wind until the police had the man on the ground all of a sudden he want to stand over him and grandcharge?  Look like they eh even teach him how to take off he shirt in Prisons... because even that he was struggling with.
« Last Edit: November 29, 2012, 03:02:35 PM by Bakes »

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Re: 2012 Boys & Girls SSFL & InterCol Thread.
« Reply #327 on: November 29, 2012, 06:00:48 PM »
I was just listening to Andre Baptiste show on i95FM , from what the assistant Secretary of the college league said no decision was reached between the teams ,they are awaiting on Prez Principal to say if they are prepared to play over the game or not.

Also Prez coach called the show he said the team want to play ,they just came from practicing .
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Re: 2012 Boys & Girls SSFL & InterCol Thread.
« Reply #328 on: November 29, 2012, 06:35:24 PM »
Scrolling back up the thread, it seems that Arimaman has that protection where he is. Not sure whether it is a minority of states that have the protection but it applies elsewhere ... for instance, in North Carolina under N.C. Gen. Stat. sect. 14.33 (b)(9).

(I'll paste the language rather than reference when the device I'm using more easily permits.)



Yeah it seems that the grading is more serious if yuh assault a ref in NC:

Quote
(9)        Commits an assault and battery against a sports official when the sports official is discharging or attempting to discharge official duties at a sports event, or immediately after the sports event at which the sports official discharged official duties. A "sports official" is a person at a sports event who enforces the rules of the event, such as an umpire or referee, or a person who supervises the participants, such as a coach. A "sports event" includes any interscholastic or intramural athletic activity in a primary, middle, junior high, or high school, college, or university, any organized athletic activity sponsored by a community, business, or nonprofit organization, any athletic activity that is a professional or semiprofessional event, and any other organized athletic activity in the State.

Again... not sure I agree with that.

---------------


I'm for it. Completely. Conduct of this nature is particularly egregious ... compromising the integrity of the field of play, compromising ppl's safety on dey wuk, threatening the overall spirit in which sports are played and decisions made ... Sure, the services they render are different to the services provided by a government actor but the impact is no less deleterious.
 
Excerpt:
Quote
Ask yourself whether you would want to work in a job in which your chances of being physically attacked are 1 in 7? You probably wouldn't want that job. Of course, we do know that mail carriers are the exception that proves the rule, as we can assume that a disproportionately high number of mail carriers have been attacked by dogs. However, mail carriers aside, how many people would be willing to accept such a high frequency of attacks in their profession or avocation.

http://www.momsteam.com/team-experts/west-virginia-expected-to-criminalize-assaults-on-sports-officials

Excerpt:
Quote
The nature of the offender, however, holds much more promise in youth leagues because prosecutions are more likely to deter rational thinkers than people who lack self-control. Despite the usually impulsive nature of attacks on officials, I suspect that in places where prosecution for youth sports violence is a real possibility, publicity does indeed encourage self-control in some parents and coaches. These adults are normally family people trying to earn a living and raise their children, they are the kind of people who make good neighbors until the game starts, and they value their jobs and their place in the community. They are not career criminals, and the youth-league assault is typically their first brush with the law. Most of all, parents and coaches sense what indictment, prosecution and sentencing would mean for them and their families. The potential for deterrence can be strong.

http://askcoachwolff.com/2011/04/01/would-more-criminal-prosecutions-deter-assaults-on-youth-sports-officials/

There is lots of discussion that could be had around this issue.
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Offline asylumseeker

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Re: 2012 Boys & Girls SSFL & InterCol Thread.
« Reply #329 on: November 29, 2012, 06:39:54 PM »
Something else ... maybe a ref could respond ... but is the victim assistant ref here open to some possible disciplinary sanction because of his physical response to the situation and his attempt to attack Adams?
"It is not possible to make successful policy in a state of ignorance or indifference to what goes on in the real world." --- Martin Daly.