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Author Topic: 2012 Boys & Girls SSFL & InterCol Thread.  (Read 37748 times)

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Offline Bakes

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Re: 2012 Boys & Girls SSFL & InterCol Thread.
« Reply #330 on: November 29, 2012, 07:29:49 PM »
I'm for it. Completely. Conduct of this nature is particularly egregious ... compromising the integrity of the field of play, compromising ppl's safety on dey wuk, threatening the overall spirit in which sports are played and decisions made ... Sure, the services they render are different to the services provided by a government actor but the impact is no less deleterious.

Come on man, doh make mih laugh... "particularly egregious"?  Why stop at the officials then... why not make an assault on anyone on the field an equal offense? If yuh run and kick down the goalkeeper that too is an aggravated offense. Then of course that would necessitate the rationalization that people engaged in sports deserve some heightened degree of protection from your average Joe Blow.  Doubt that would fly very far.  "Compromising the integrity of the field of play"?  This is sport.. not the UN Security Council.  The same field of play where man does be diving and kicking down next man and officials missing and overlooking call left and right?  "Integrity" yuh say?  And if yuh mean integrity as in 'sanctity'... why that deserve more protection than the 'integrity' of the post office?  Nah... come better than that.
 
Quote
Ask yourself whether you would want to work in a job in which your chances of being physically attacked are 1 in 7?

If they get assaulted then there's punishment for the offender.  People whining as though yuh could just attack a ref with impunity.  Mind you we ent talking about those who getting away with it, we talking about who get caught and prosecuted... so who is a ref that s/he deserve protection the same as a police or fireman?  Parking lot attendants does get assaulted, as do supermarket cashiers, bouncers, convenience store clerks... should we make it an aggravated offense to assault them as well?  What makes the ref's job any more inherently dangerous than the 7-11 clerk?

Quote
Excerpt:
Quote
The nature of the offender, however, holds much more promise in youth leagues because prosecutions are more likely to deter rational thinkers than people who lack self-control. Despite the usually impulsive nature of attacks on officials, I suspect that in places where prosecution for youth sports violence is a real possibility, publicity does indeed encourage self-control in some parents and coaches. These adults are normally family people trying to earn a living and raise their children, they are the kind of people who make good neighbors until the game starts, and they value their jobs and their place in the community. They are not career criminals, and the youth-league assault is typically their first brush with the law. Most of all, parents and coaches sense what indictment, prosecution and sentencing would mean for them and their families. The potential for deterrence can be strong.

http://askcoachwolff.com/2011/04/01/would-more-criminal-prosecutions-deter-assaults-on-youth-sports-officials/

There is lots of discussion that could be had around this issue.

Sure there is lots of discussion that could be had... as demonstrated by my responses thus far.  I just don't buy that people engaged in play, be it free or for money are somehow on the same level of importance or substance as those providing a service of direct and tangible benefit to the public.
« Last Edit: November 29, 2012, 07:31:34 PM by Bakes »

Offline Bakes

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Re: 2012 Boys & Girls SSFL & InterCol Thread.
« Reply #331 on: November 29, 2012, 07:33:39 PM »
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/K6Rhfv4e0O4&amp;list=UL" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/K6Rhfv4e0O4&amp;list=UL</a>

Them police could take lessons from some ah dese fat men working stadium security up here... is all kinda form tackle flying, lol

Offline soccerman

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Re: 2012 Boys & Girls SSFL & InterCol Thread.
« Reply #332 on: November 29, 2012, 08:05:09 PM »
Bakes solider lucky he didn't get tazed like de fella in Philly lol

Offline soccerman

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Re: 2012 Boys & Girls SSFL & InterCol Thread.
« Reply #333 on: November 29, 2012, 08:09:46 PM »
Dem handcuffs woulda go on nice and easy
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/VqtPUhYdz6M" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/VqtPUhYdz6M</a>

Offline Bakes

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Re: 2012 Boys & Girls SSFL & InterCol Thread.
« Reply #334 on: November 29, 2012, 08:17:22 PM »
Bakes solider lucky he didn't get tazed like de fella in Philly lol

Hahaha... ent?  Dem men and dem jokey.  And on top ah dat yuh getting charge with trespassing.  Imagine if yuh gone tuh ah baseball game and stretch fuh ah ball and fall they not only kicking yuh out but charging yuh too LOL.  That might be the other extreme, but police in Trinidad like they fall into two categories, "Robocop" and "Keystone Kop".

Offline Tallman

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Re: 2012 Boys & Girls SSFL & InterCol Thread.
« Reply #335 on: November 29, 2012, 09:41:34 PM »
Apparently the game between Pres and Shiva will be replayed on Saturday behind closed doors.
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Offline pardners

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Re: 2012 Boys & Girls SSFL & InterCol Thread.
« Reply #336 on: November 30, 2012, 03:45:47 AM »
Apparently the game between Pres and Shiva will be replayed on Saturday behind closed doors.

That is the final word.
"Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better."        Every once in while a good post does come along.

Offline Flex

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Re: 2012 Boys & Girls SSFL & InterCol Thread.
« Reply #337 on: November 30, 2012, 04:44:24 AM »
Full South InterCol final must be replayed.
By Roger Seepersad (Express).


Presentation College San Fernando and Shiva Boys Hindu College will have to replay the Secondary Schools Football League (SSFL) Coca Cola InterCol South Zone final to determine who will advance to the National semifinal.

That was the consensus following a meeting between the parties and the Minister of Sport Anil Roberts, in Port of Spain yesterday.

The teams met on Monday in the original South Zone final at Manny Ramjohn Stadium, Marabella, but the game was abandoned ten minutes before the final whistle when a spectator attacked assistant referee Kevin Charles.

Pres were leading 2-1 when the incident occurred, forcing a premature end to the game.

The match was scheduled to be replayed on Wednesday behind closed doors, but Pres protested the decision to replay the game and did not turn up.

First vice president of the SSFL, Anthony Creed said the decision whether or not to replay the game will be made today.

He said the parties had frank and good discussions at yesterday's meeting.

Presentation College San Fernando principal, Errol Jaikaransingh, who was in the meeting with Roberts, said the Minister asked what could be done so that the game could be replayed.

Jaikaransingh said he had to have consultations with stakeholders before he could make that decision.

If Pres maintain their stance that they will not replay the game, they will forfeit the match and Shiva will advance to the National semifinal.

The replay can take place either today or tomorrow, but Jaikaransingh said today is not likely.

Pres and Shiva have until 12 noon today to decide whether or not they will replay the match.

The Pres and Shiva footballers were hard at work at their respective training sessions, yesterday, not knowing their fate.

Shiva manager, Sheldon Maharaj said his team were preparing, and would be ready for anything.

"If we have to play tomorrow (today), we will be ready," he said.

The real measure of a man's character is what he would do if he knew he would never be found out.

Offline pardners

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Re: 2012 Boys & Girls SSFL & InterCol Thread.
« Reply #338 on: November 30, 2012, 08:00:55 AM »
Anil Roberts was not at the meeting. He was at the Cabinet Meeting and Post Cabinet Meeting. The Permanent Sec chaired the meeting with the principals et al.
"Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better."        Every once in while a good post does come along.

Offline weary1969

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Re: 2012 Boys & Girls SSFL & InterCol Thread.
« Reply #339 on: November 30, 2012, 11:14:42 AM »
Anil Roberts was not at the meeting. He was at the Cabinet Meeting and Post Cabinet Meeting. The Permanent Sec chaired the meeting with the principals et al.


Well he obviously eh have nutten 2 do if he was at that meeting. Y the Minister Of Sport have to be involve in a matter at that level? They obviously have to learn the difference between strategic and operational leadership.
Today you're the dog, tomorrow you're the hydrant - so be good to others - it comes back!"

Offline pardners

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Re: 2012 Boys & Girls SSFL & InterCol Thread.
« Reply #340 on: November 30, 2012, 11:50:07 AM »
Weary, I'm sure you would have heard how Elliot was stupified last night when Andre Baptiste challenged him on the Shiva red card issue. 
He started off boldface talking about the disciplinary committee and Appeals Committee, but when Andre put it to him that he talking shit...he start to back track saying how they taking they time to make sure and get it right this time.

I was waiting to call in when Andre was interviewing him on the phone, but changed my mind when I heard Andre dealing with him in that manner.  Good thing too cause he ent take no more calls on the issue.
"Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better."        Every once in while a good post does come along.

Offline asylumseeker

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Re: 2012 Boys & Girls SSFL & InterCol Thread.
« Reply #341 on: November 30, 2012, 01:18:17 PM »
Anil Roberts was not at the meeting. He was at the Cabinet Meeting and Post Cabinet Meeting. The Permanent Sec chaired the meeting with the principals et al.


Well he obviously eh have nutten 2 do if he was at that meeting. Y the Minister Of Sport have to be involve in a matter at that level? They obviously have to learn the difference between strategic and operational leadership.

Precisely why I referenced the Ministry of Education above rather than the Minister of Education.
"It is not possible to make successful policy in a state of ignorance or indifference to what goes on in the real world." --- Martin Daly.

Offline weary1969

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Re: 2012 Boys & Girls SSFL & InterCol Thread.
« Reply #342 on: November 30, 2012, 05:28:42 PM »
Weary, I'm sure you would have heard how Elliot was stupified last night when Andre Baptiste challenged him on the Shiva red card issue. 
He started off boldface talking about the disciplinary committee and Appeals Committee, but when Andre put it to him that he talking shit...he start to back track saying how they taking they time to make sure and get it right this time.

I was waiting to call in when Andre was interviewing him on the phone, but changed my mind when I heard Andre dealing with him in that manner.  Good thing too cause he ent take no more calls on the issue.

D fella clueless 2 d nth power
« Last Edit: November 30, 2012, 05:32:14 PM by weary1969 »
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Offline weary1969

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Re: 2012 Boys & Girls SSFL & InterCol Thread.
« Reply #343 on: November 30, 2012, 05:31:16 PM »
Anil Roberts was not at the meeting. He was at the Cabinet Meeting and Post Cabinet Meeting. The Permanent Sec chaired the meeting with the principals et al.


Well he obviously eh have nutten 2 do if he was at that meeting. Y the Minister Of Sport have to be involve in a matter at that level? They obviously have to learn the difference between strategic and operational leadership.

Precisely why I referenced the Ministry of Education above rather than the Minister of Education.

D Minister of Education as well have no business there. There is an SS3 in Victoria where both schools are situated. It have a Chief Education Officer this is anissue for them fellas.
« Last Edit: November 30, 2012, 05:32:58 PM by weary1969 »
Today you're the dog, tomorrow you're the hydrant - so be good to others - it comes back!"

Offline weary1969

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Re: 2012 Boys & Girls SSFL & InterCol Thread.
« Reply #344 on: December 01, 2012, 09:40:40 PM »
Shiva win on penalties.
Today you're the dog, tomorrow you're the hydrant - so be good to others - it comes back!"

Offline Football supporter

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Re: 2012 Boys & Girls SSFL & InterCol Thread.
« Reply #345 on: December 01, 2012, 10:01:18 PM »
So, basically, a Shiva fan got the game abandoned and Shiva won the re match. Is this justice? It may not have been the fault of the Shiva players, but the attack on the linesman certainly benefited them. So, whats the lesson here? If you're losing, attack an official and earn a 2nd bite at the cherry?  :banginghead:

Offline asylumseeker

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Re: 2012 Boys & Girls SSFL & InterCol Thread.
« Reply #346 on: December 01, 2012, 11:44:01 PM »
So, basically, a Shiva fan got the game abandoned and Shiva won the re match. Is this justice? It may not have been the fault of the Shiva players, but the attack on the linesman certainly benefited them. So, whats the lesson here? If you're losing, attack an official and earn a 2nd bite at the cherry?  :banginghead:

Yeah, it rings hollow.
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Offline Flex

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Re: 2012 Boys & Girls SSFL & InterCol Thread.
« Reply #347 on: December 02, 2012, 05:43:34 AM »
Penal boys beat Pres on penalties in replayed South InterCol final.
By Kern De Freitas (Express).


SHIVA PREVAIL

It was overwhelming joy for Shiva Boys Hindu College and gut-wrenching pain for Presentation College San Fernando as the Penal-based side lifted the South Zone InterCol title yesterday after prevailing 4-2 in a penalty shootout at Manny Ramjohn Stadium, Marabella.

Neither team could gain the ascendency in regulation time in rainy conditions in an empty stadium, with the match played behind closed doors.

The teams finished locked at 0-0, but Shiva Boys goalkeeper Kwesi Weston saved Anthony Charles' penalty kick, and Yohance Alexander booted his attempt wide after "Pres" started the shootout, while Shiva Boys were perfect from the spot.

It belatedly ended the South Zone battle and Presentation's season after controversy and uncertainty surrounded the event, following Monday's spectator attack on an assistant referee during the encounter that forced it to be abandoned with Presentation leading 2-1.

Shiva Boys will now meet St Anthony's College in a National InterCol semifinal, tomorrow, at the Hasely Crawford Stadium in Port of Spain from 4.30 p.m., with the winners to meet St Augustine Secondary in the final.

Presentation might feel hard done after Monday's incident interrupted their charge for victory with ten minutes to go, but in the end, their chances did lie at their own feet.

Perhaps fittingly, the match had to be decided with kicks from the penalty mark after the teams cancelled each other out. Neither side could boast of dominance in the match as the momentum swung back and forth, with the rain making things more challenging.

The second half ended with neither team breaking the deadlock, and although chances were few, there certainly was quality.

One such chance could have handed Shiva Boys the opener after Shavon Diaz forced a save out of Presentation goalkeeper Kelvin Henry from an acute angle, but Anthony Charles in the Pres defence was there to help out.

Four minutes later Shiva Boys had a vociferous shout for penalty turned down in a sustained period of pressure and Diaz also had a tame shot at the Pres near post.

Around the hour mark Presentation took over with some crisp passing, but Civaughn Dimsoy was not clinical enough to take advantage of good positioning, and Shiva Boys did a good job of attending to Pres talisman, striker Shakiel Henry, to make sure he would not have an easy evening.

With consistent rain growing in strength as full time approached, Presentation had a powerful free kick late on from 35 metres force a great save out of Shiva Boys goalie Kwesi Weston.

With no crowd of supporters behind the teams, the stadium was uncharacteristically quiet. Still, the determination of the teams to overcome a difficult week was fully apparent, particularly in their defensive displays on a spongy, sluggish outfield drenched by rain.

With captain Kegan Ellis marshalling the defence, Presentation looked mostly solid, and if there was a mistake, Henry was there to clean up.

For Shiva Boys it was a similar scene; Weston was a lot more solid than his outing on Monday in the abandoned final, during which he was substituted at half-time. And Shiva Boys captain, Dwight Pope made sure there were no fatal slip-ups behind him.

In terms of attack, Presentation perhaps had the edge.

But the best chance in the first half came from Shiva's Nathaniel "Spanish" Garcia in the 34th, but his close range header off a Kyle Thomas feed that originated from a short corner kick, was not on target.

Garcia ended the half with a free-kick blasted into the wall from 20 metres to maintain the 0-0 scoreline.

That's how things stayed after 90 minutes, before Shiva Boys won at the spot to beat Presentation for the first time this season in four attempts.

Shiva stuns Presentation
...wins first South InterCol title.
T&T Guardian Reports.


Shiva Boys Hindu College created history yesterday as it lifted the Coca-Cola National South Zone InterCol title for the first time after defeating favourites Presentation College of San Fernando 4-2 on penalty kicks after a goalless encounter.
 
The match, which was staged at the Manny Ramjohn Stadium, Marabella, minus full support for either team, resulted in a spot in Monday’s National InterCol semifinal for Shiva against defending champion St Anthony’s College.
 
The match did not feature as much flair and excitement, which was on display at the original hosting of the final on Monday, which was abandoned after 80 minutes after a referee’s assistant Kevin Charles was attacked by an unruly spectator. Monday’s match was called off, at which point Presentation held a 2-1 lead.
 
Presentation almost did not participate in a replay of the South Zone final as it held the view that it should have been awarded a win, due to the fact that the supporter, who struck the official allegedly admitted to being a supporter of Shiva Boys.
 
The Secondary Schools Football League (SSFL) subsequently awarded Shiva a place in the national semifinal. However, Presentation later consulted with several players, who unanimously agreed to replay the match.
 
Not only did the abandoned final stir controversy but so did the semifinal which Shiva was made to play twice. Shiva won its original match against Pleasantville Secondary 4-0, before the latter team appealed to the SSFL claiming that Shiva fielded an ineligible player, who received a red card in the previous match. In unusual circumstances, the SSFL called for a replay, which Shiva won 2-0.
 
There, however, were no grudges to be held in yesterday’s final. No red cards were produced and there were no incidents of foul play in the handful of spectators, officials and media, who were allowed access to the stadium.
 
Shiva Boys was second best to Presentation in the league, and by a wide ten-point margin. Presentation entered the match with a record of just one loss in all SSFL competitions, ironically from penalty kicks, when the “Lions” were dropped in the Big-Five final by Carapichaima East Secondary.
 
Yesterday, Presentation was out in full force with its best players, some of whom included Civaughn Dimsoy and Shackiel Henry, who arguably could have produced and finished more opportunities. Skipper Kegan Ellis, too, was guilty of missing a close-ranged opportunity in the final 15 minutes, despite his ever tireless efforts.
 
Shiva, too, despite creating a couple of chances particularly in the early stages of the second half, did not impress. The school’s top attacker and national Under-17 player Nathaniel Garcia, could have scored with ten minutes left in the first half had his header been on target. Ten minutes into the second half, Garcia again almost put his team up, had it not been for the heroics of Presentation custodian Kelvin Henry.
 
The match ended with Shiva edging Presentation in many ways apart from the score. Shiva followed up by converting all of its attempts from the penalty spot, while Presentation failed in its second and third attempt.

Shiva goalkeeper Quesi Weston scored the first, followed by successful shots from Anderson Cornwall and Dwight Pope. The final shot taken by Shaquille Jogie found the back of the net to the jubilation of the Shiva players.
 
Shiva meets St Anthony’s College, tomorrow, for a spot in the InterCol final, of which one place is already occupied by East Zone champion, St Augustine Secondary. The semifinal will be staged at the Hasely Crawford Stadium, Port-of-Spain, from 4 pm.


Shiva Boys Hindu College players and staff celebrate its first Coca-Cola South Zone InterCol triumph following a 4-2 penalty kick win over Presentation College, San Fernando, after both teams ended full time goalless. Shiva will meet St Anthony’s College in the national semifinal, at the Hasely Crawford Stadium in Mucurapo tomorrow at 4 pm. Photo: Anthony Harris.

« Last Edit: December 02, 2012, 05:49:00 AM by Flex »
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Offline royal

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Re: 2012 Boys & Girls SSFL & InterCol Thread.
« Reply #348 on: December 02, 2012, 05:51:30 AM »
So, basically, a Shiva fan got the game abandoned and Shiva won the re match. Is this justice? It may not have been the fault of the Shiva players, but the attack on the linesman certainly benefited them. So, whats the lesson here? If you're losing, attack an official and earn a 2nd bite at the cherry?  :banginghead:

this is why in the States the game would have been resume and not replayed at high school level. Now a fan can disrupt a game if his team losing and have it replayed........ nonsense 

Offline Bakes

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Re: 2012 Boys & Girls SSFL & InterCol Thread.
« Reply #349 on: December 02, 2012, 09:11:56 AM »
Yeah, it rings hollow.

For fans of Presentation, maybe.  As a neutral, if you ask me entirely too much is being made over this... the replay was the only fair result given how much time remained.  The lesson learned is that more security measures must be taken at these games, it has already been pointed out that police and stadium security had opportunities to intercept the attacker before he reached the field, but failed to properly assess the threat before it materialized.

Offline asylumseeker

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Re: 2012 Boys & Girls SSFL & InterCol Thread.
« Reply #350 on: December 02, 2012, 03:22:58 PM »
Yeah, it rings hollow.

For fans of Presentation, maybe.  As a neutral, if you ask me entirely too much is being made over this... the replay was the only fair result given how much time remained.  The lesson learned is that more security measures must be taken at these games, it has already been pointed out that police and stadium security had opportunities to intercept the attacker before he reached the field, but failed to properly assess the threat before it materialized.[/b]

See Royal above. Given how much time remained, it is a travesty that a replay was contemplated. Period.

Furthermore, the vagaries of stadium security should not affect the non-offending team.
« Last Edit: December 02, 2012, 03:30:32 PM by asylumseeker »
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Offline Bakes

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Re: 2012 Boys & Girls SSFL & InterCol Thread.
« Reply #351 on: December 02, 2012, 05:38:33 PM »
See Royal above. Given how much time remained, it is a travesty that a replay was contemplated. Period.

Furthermore, the vagaries of stadium security should not affect the non-offending team.

What would have happened had this been the states is immaterial.  If Downer is to be believed then FIFA rules call for a replay.  As for the "non-offending team" talk... which team is the "offending" team here?  Your issue of non/offending team isn't open and shut either, just as some of you insist all a fan of a losing team has to do is to disrupt a game/attack an official, same too, all a fan of a winning team has to do is to pull the same stunt once his team goes ahead.  Here both teams had an equal chance, to win the game, Presentation didn't.  Hard luck.

Offline asylumseeker

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Re: 2012 Boys & Girls SSFL & InterCol Thread.
« Reply #352 on: December 02, 2012, 10:45:02 PM »
I'm for it. Completely. Conduct of this nature is particularly egregious ... compromising the integrity of the field of play, compromising ppl's safety on dey wuk, threatening the overall spirit in which sports are played and decisions made ... Sure, the services they render are different to the services provided by a government actor but the impact is no less deleterious.

Come on man, doh make mih laugh... "particularly egregious"?  Why stop at the officials then... why not make an assault on anyone on the field an equal offense? If yuh run and kick down the goalkeeper that too is an aggravated offense. Then of course that would necessitate the rationalization that people engaged in sports deserve some heightened degree of protection from your average Joe Blow.  Doubt that would fly very far. "Compromising the integrity of the field of play"?  This is sport.. not the UN Security Council.  The same field of play where man does be diving and kicking down next man and officials missing and overlooking call left and right?  "Integrity" yuh say?  And if yuh mean integrity as in 'sanctity'... why that deserve more protection than the 'integrity' of the post office?  Nah... come better than that.
 
Quote
Ask yourself whether you would want to work in a job in which your chances of being physically attacked are 1 in 7?

If they get assaulted then there's punishment for the offender.  People whining as though yuh could just attack a ref with impunity.  Mind you we ent talking about those who getting away with it, we talking about who get caught and prosecuted... so who is a ref that s/he deserve protection the same as a police or fireman?  Parking lot attendants does get assaulted, as do supermarket cashiers, bouncers, convenience store clerks... should we make it an aggravated offense to assault them as well?  What makes the ref's job any more inherently dangerous than the 7-11 clerk?

Quote
Excerpt:
Quote
The nature of the offender, however, holds much more promise in youth leagues because prosecutions are more likely to deter rational thinkers than people who lack self-control. Despite the usually impulsive nature of attacks on officials, I suspect that in places where prosecution for youth sports violence is a real possibility, publicity does indeed encourage self-control in some parents and coaches. These adults are normally family people trying to earn a living and raise their children, they are the kind of people who make good neighbors until the game starts, and they value their jobs and their place in the community. They are not career criminals, and the youth-league assault is typically their first brush with the law. Most of all, parents and coaches sense what indictment, prosecution and sentencing would mean for them and their families. The potential for deterrence can be strong.

http://askcoachwolff.com/2011/04/01/would-more-criminal-prosecutions-deter-assaults-on-youth-sports-officials/

There is lots of discussion that could be had around this issue.

Sure there is lots of discussion that could be had... as demonstrated by my responses thus far.  I just don't buy that people engaged in play, be it free or for money are somehow on the same level of importance or substance as those providing a service of direct and tangible benefit to the public.

You don't hold sporting pursuit in high enough esteem. Legislative initiatives in the various jurisdictions (within and outside the US) recognize that this has nothing to do with a comparative of utility between public/quasi-public functionaries and sports officials. That is not the benchmark on which the legislative protection should be assessed or is/was assessed. Yeah, we know ... referees are not Attorneys General or firemen. So what? They were exposed in a manner that the law had previously been deficient in addressing (in the progressive jurisdictions). In other jurisdictions, absent the legislation, there is a sense of impunity held by some bad actors that they could f--k up a ref and dahis that. Officials perform a social and quasi-public good that merits the special treatment. You think it's bad law. I disagree.

The field of play possesses its own "integrity" because the activities on the field of play are governed by rules that apply to the specific game. For this reason, courts also look askance at entertaining charges for conduct occurring on the field of play that would had it occurred elsewhere would be properly entertained in a court. Things cut both ways.

Just as courts err, so too do referees ... so the consequence of flawed calls is par for the course. The integrity of courts is no less or no more maligned upon the occurrence of error ... so then why impugn the integrity of sport because of error?

Sport is entertainment openly extended to the public, and refs are placed front and center in a manner that renders them uniquely vulnerable. They are not gladiators performing for caesar. 
« Last Edit: December 02, 2012, 10:51:00 PM by asylumseeker »
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Offline Bakes

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Re: 2012 Boys & Girls SSFL & InterCol Thread.
« Reply #353 on: December 02, 2012, 11:08:24 PM »
You don't hold sporting pursuit in high enough esteem.

No I don't, clearly not as highly as you do... and I'm comfortable with that.

Legislative initiatives in the various jurisdictions (within and outside the US) recognize that this has nothing to do with a comparative of utility between public/quasi-public functionaries and sports officials.

You don't know what the legislative initiatives as you call them, are premised on.

That is not the benchmark on which the legislative protection should be assessed or is/was assessed. Yeah, we know ... referees are not Attorneys General or firemen. So what? They were exposed in a manner that the law had previously been deficient in addressing (in the progressive jurisdictions). In other jurisdictions, absent the legislation, there is a sense of impunity held by some bad actors that they could f--k up a ref and dahis that. Officials perform a social and quasi-public good that merits the special treatment. You think it's bad law. I disagree.

No different from any "sense of impunity" that they'd feel about f--king up the average Joe and getting away with it.  The ref is just an average Joe in a uniform.  Therefore, why should special legislation be enacted to protect refs from the same attitude that jeopardizes the rest of us?

The field of play possesses its own "integrity" because the activities on the field of play are governed by rules that apply to the specific game. For this reason, courts also look askance at entertaining charges for conduct occurring on the field of play that would had it occurred elsewhere would be properly entertained in a court. Things cut both ways.

Has nothing to do with any kinda "integrity" and more to do with assumption of the risk by actors.  Anything egregious and outside the scope of the rules more often than not subjects the transgressor to criminal penalties outside of the sanction of sport.  This is premised on the belief that egregious behavior is outside the scope of anything the other participants have bargained for by their participation in the sport.  I can name any number of incidents, in any number of sports where this has been true.

Just as courts err, so too do referees ... so the consequence of flawed calls is par for the course. The integrity of courts is no less or no more maligned upon the occurrence of error ... so then why impugn the integrity of sport because of error?

Sport is entertainment openly extended to the public, and refs are placed front and center in a manner that renders them uniquely vulnerable. They are not gladiators performing for caesar. 

"Uniquely vulnerable"?  Hardly.  The incident of assaults on officials are sufficiently rare as to serve as a reminder that additional legislative protection is unnecessary.

Offline asylumseeker

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Re: 2012 Boys & Girls SSFL & InterCol Thread.
« Reply #354 on: December 02, 2012, 11:32:23 PM »
asylumseeker:
Quote
Legislative initiatives in the various jurisdictions (within and outside the US) recognize that this has nothing to do with a comparative of utility between public/quasi-public functionaries and sports officials.

Bakes:
Quote
You don't know what the legislative initiatives as you call them, are premised on.

Beware of blanket statements.
"It is not possible to make successful policy in a state of ignorance or indifference to what goes on in the real world." --- Martin Daly.

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Re: 2012 Boys & Girls SSFL & InterCol Thread.
« Reply #355 on: December 05, 2012, 03:55:25 AM »

St Anthony's College Keane Mc Ivor, right, is challenged for the ball by Shiva Boys' Anderson Cornwall in yesterday's Coca Cola Intercol semi-final at the Hasely Crawford Stadium. St Anthony's won the game 4-2 on penalties. ...Author: Azlan Mohammed

The real measure of a man's character is what he would do if he knew he would never be found out.

Offline jr sams

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Re: 2012 Boys & Girls SSFL & InterCol Thread.
« Reply #356 on: December 05, 2012, 07:57:01 AM »
Justice?
well yes

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Re: 2012 Boys & Girls SSFL & InterCol Thread.
« Reply #357 on: December 05, 2012, 09:29:00 AM »
asylumseeker:
Quote
Legislative initiatives in the various jurisdictions (within and outside the US) recognize that this has nothing to do with a comparative of utility between public/quasi-public functionaries and sports officials.

Bakes:
Quote
You don't know what the legislative initiatives as you call them, are premised on.

Beware of blanket statements.


Heal thyself, physician.

Offline asylumseeker

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Re: 2012 Boys & Girls SSFL & InterCol Thread.
« Reply #358 on: December 05, 2012, 04:29:57 PM »
asylumseeker:
Quote
Legislative initiatives in the various jurisdictions (within and outside the US) recognize that this has nothing to do with a comparative of utility between public/quasi-public functionaries and sports officials.

Bakes:
Quote
You don't know what the legislative initiatives as you call them, are premised on.

Beware of blanket statements.


Heal thyself, physician.

smh yes ... I eh asking yuh, ah telling yuh ... because it is as such. This is qualitatively different from you knowing what you suppose I don't know.

Quote
The incident of assaults on officials are sufficiently rare as to serve as a reminder that additional legislative protection is unnecessary.

Patently false. The incidence of assaults on officials is not "sufficiently rare". 

Anyway:

http://www.naso.org/Portals/0/downloads/reports/SpecReptAssault.pdf

http://www.naso.org/Resources/Legislation/StateLegislation.aspx
« Last Edit: December 05, 2012, 04:45:28 PM by asylumseeker »
"It is not possible to make successful policy in a state of ignorance or indifference to what goes on in the real world." --- Martin Daly.

Offline Bakes

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Re: 2012 Boys & Girls SSFL & InterCol Thread.
« Reply #359 on: December 05, 2012, 05:21:25 PM »
smh yes ... I eh asking yuh, ah telling yuh ... because it is as such. This is qualitatively different from you knowing what you suppose I don't know.

And I not asking you either... did you see a question mark at the end of my statement? 

There are 18 jurisdictions which have legislation directed at protecting sports officials.  One would have to take a look at the legislative history (complete with comment and minutes) to determine the motivation and intent behind the particular legislation.  This is elementary stuff, to be honest, I don't need to have an argument with you on this.  Unless you have looked at the legislative history and can point to comments that substantiate your claim that "[Legislatures] recognize that this has nothing to do with a comparative of utility between public/quasi-public functionaries and sports officials." then you cannot speak to the motivation behind these laws.  And yes, I know what you don't know because even a cursory review of the legislative history shows that in at least the 10 of those 18 states that I picked at random (CA, IL, KY, MT, DE, PA, NJ, NV, NC, TX) there is no "recognition" of this "comparative utility" that you mention.  So yes, I know that yuh don't know what yuh talking about.

Quote
The incident of assaults on officials are sufficiently rare as to serve as a reminder that additional legislative protection is unnecessary.

Patently false. The incidence of assaults on officials is not "sufficiently rare". 

Anyway:

http://www.naso.org/Portals/0/downloads/reports/SpecReptAssault.pdf

http://www.naso.org/Resources/Legislation/StateLegislation.aspx

You pointing to a ten-year old document, that itself borrows liberally from a Marquette Law Review article from 1998, to argue that there is a high incidence of assaults on sports officials TODAY?  Neither of the documents seek to quantify the incidence of assaults on sports officials, relative to the incidence of assault in the larger context.  This is how you determine whether the occurrence is rare or not. Both documents list a relative handful of assaults on sporting officials, compared to assaults on the larger civilian population.  I understand that this might be confusing to you, but that actually supports my argument that the incidence is rare.  Unfortunately for you, no amount of false bravado or assumed authority on your part changes that.
« Last Edit: December 05, 2012, 05:23:30 PM by Bakes »