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Offline trinindian

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Re: PNM Sour puss
« Reply #30 on: September 08, 2012, 08:52:59 AM »
Dougla..lol

My great grandfather came with his family from Madras (Chennai) India to Trinidad. My grandfather is African and Indian. His Indian family used to call him dougla, and laugh. He accepted that as a term for mix African and Indian like majority of Trinis. As my grandfather grew up, he learned that dougla is Bhojpuri (Hindu dialect) for bastard. Thats why his Indian family used to laugh when they called him dougla or dougala...

See I learn something today

The word originated from doogala (दुगला), which is a Bhojpuri and Hindi word that has many meanings such as many, a mix, or much. It literally means "two necks" in Bhojpuri and is highly insulting in the Bihar and Purvanchal regions of North India. Some of the connotations of the word such as bastard, illegitimate and son of a whore are secondary and limited to sections of North India where the term may have originated.[1] The term itself has a puzzling connotation, for it has very limited use within the subcontinent for the purpose that it gained in the West Indies. In other words, there is no recorded use of the word other than that which the definition describes, and yet, there is little or no record of such a defined use anywhere on the continent. Originally, the use of the word in the West Indies was only used for Afro-Indo racial hybrids, despite its origin as a word used to describe inter-caste mixing. In Bihar and Uttar Pradesh it is considered highly offensive, as it denotes that one is of mixed caste or a half-breed.
 

Offline gawd on pitch

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Re: PNM Sour puss
« Reply #31 on: September 08, 2012, 08:59:20 AM »
Dougla..lol

My great grandfather came with his family from Madras (Chennai) India to Trinidad. My grandfather is African and Indian. His Indian family used to call him dougla, and laugh. He accepted that as a term for mix African and Indian like majority of Trinis. As my grandfather grew up, he learned that dougla is Bhojpuri (Hindu dialect) for bastard. Thats why his Indian family used to laugh when they called him dougla or dougala...

See I learn something today

The word originated from doogala (दुगला), which is a Bhojpuri and Hindi word that has many meanings such as many, a mix, or much. It literally means "two necks" in Bhojpuri and is highly insulting in the Bihar and Purvanchal regions of North India. Some of the connotations of the word such as bastard, illegitimate and son of a whore are secondary and limited to sections of North India where the term may have originated.[1] The term itself has a puzzling connotation, for it has very limited use within the subcontinent for the purpose that it gained in the West Indies. In other words, there is no recorded use of the word other than that which the definition describes, and yet, there is little or no record of such a defined use anywhere on the continent. Originally, the use of the word in the West Indies was only used for Afro-Indo racial hybrids, despite its origin as a word used to describe inter-caste mixing. In Bihar and Uttar Pradesh it is considered highly offensive, as it denotes that one is of mixed caste or a half-breed.

Yep. Although Madras is in Southern India.. Many newly arrived Indians in T&T were familiar with what it meant, regardless of where in India they came from.

Its always good to learn. Thanks Trinindian.

Offline rotatopoti3

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Re: PNM Sour puss
« Reply #32 on: September 08, 2012, 09:19:33 AM »
No other intellectuals come to mind immediately, but i will see what i can find should be educational if nothing else

T.I you dont have to search far....here are some names I am sure you are familiar with and Island Scholars in there own right...
Lionel Seemungal   Jerningham Medal back in the day when the gov't was TOUGH on awarding real scholarship...which I believe was in 1941 or 1942.
Rupert Seemungal
Lloyd Best... Sorbonne graduate if I recall

All I must add are QRC boys....

As for Canada Gawd..I would not say genius but Neil Bissoondath comes from the Capildeo Clan...(York Uni) graduate and married a Francophone...resides in that province they call Quebec I believe...

Gawd..I know you mean well like the rest of the Canucks..u UFT,York, UBC, Queens or McMaster of hard knocks???

I didnt single you out....and I all about learning...

Its interesting you gentleman are all talking about trini accomplishments and I feel sorry when I look at how dem Canadian does call yuh dey own but once any form of _uck up....crappo smoke yuh pipe..eg Ben Johnson...we love u Donovan Bailey...u sound so eloquent.... Ben......WHO
Ah say it, how ah see it

Offline gawd on pitch

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Re: PNM Sour puss
« Reply #33 on: September 08, 2012, 09:27:38 AM »
No other intellectuals come to mind immediately, but i will see what i can find should be educational if nothing else

T.I you dont have to search far....here are some names I am sure you are familiar with and Island Scholars in there own right...
Lionel Seemungal   Jerningham Medal back in the day when the gov't was TOUGH on awarding real scholarship...which I believe was in 1941 or 1942.
Rupert Seemungal
Lloyd Best... Sorbonne graduate if I recall

All I must add are QRC boys....

As for Canada Gawd..I would not say genius but Neil Bissoondath comes from the Capildeo Clan...(York Uni) graduate and married a Francophone...resides in that province they call Quebec I believe...

Gawd..I know you mean well like the rest of the Canucks..u UFT,York, UBC, Queens or McMaster of hard knocks???

I didnt single you out....and I all about learning...

Its interesting you gentleman are all talking about trini accomplishments and I feel sorry when I look at how dem Canadian does call yuh dey own but once any form of _uck up....crappo smoke yuh pipe..eg Ben Johnson...we love u Donovan Bailey...u sound so eloquent.... Ben......WHO

Thanks Rota.

Its true. You tend to find that love/hate relationship amongst the "Canadian Canadians" towards the non "Canadians".

Offline rotatopoti3

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Re: PNM Sour puss
« Reply #34 on: September 08, 2012, 09:36:59 AM »
You tend to find that love/hate relationship amongst the "Canadian Canadians" towards the non "Canadians".

LOL.....We can sit here all our lives and argue "Canadian Canadians".....who is Canadian?  what is Canadian food? Do I need to speak with a jackass twang for me to considered assimilated???  So my three and your 3 does sound different....WELL my 3 is pronounced like that from the Irish in d Caribbean  Assimilation u say...win the Stanley cup first....  ;D
Ah say it, how ah see it

Offline Bakes

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Re: PNM Sour puss
« Reply #35 on: September 08, 2012, 09:47:24 AM »
Dougla doesn't mean 'bastard', I don't trust that Wikipedia definition because it cannot be substantiated. The word originally referred to the progeny of inter-varna marriages, or children born to parents from different caste sects. It subsequently took on racial tones once Indians began mixing with other races with greater frequency.

Offline gawd on pitch

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Re: PNM Sour puss
« Reply #36 on: September 08, 2012, 09:49:45 AM »
You tend to find that love/hate relationship amongst the "Canadian Canadians" towards the non "Canadians".

LOL.....We can sit here all our lives and argue "Canadian Canadians".....who is Canadian?  what is Canadian food? Do I need to speak with a jackass twang for me to considered assimilated???  So my three and your 3 does sound different....WELL my 3 is pronounced like that from the Irish in d Caribbean  Assimilation u say...win the Stanley cup first....  ;D

Canadian Canadians is just a way of saying "white Canadians". This is very popular in France where the white French claim that they are the "original French" or French-French.

Offline gawd on pitch

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Re: PNM Sour puss
« Reply #37 on: September 08, 2012, 11:12:00 AM »
Dougla doesn't mean 'bastard', I don't trust that Wikipedia definition because it cannot be substantiated. The word originally referred to the progeny of inter-varna marriages, or children born to parents from different caste sects. It subsequently took on racial tones once Indians began mixing with other races with greater frequency.

There are much more resources that can confirm the etymological root of the word dougla.

Think of the context in which this word was being introduced into the Trinidadian lexicon.. This was a time when many of the Indian men followed the caste system to a tee. If their daughters had children out of wedlock with the African-Caribbean man... Do you think he (the Indian grandfather) was willing to accept this? How do you think he referred to them..  hence dougla or doogala. 

The original meaning of the word is a symbol of the attitudes held by Indian men when their Indian daughters had children with Afri Caribbean men.

If you ask anyone who speaks Bhojpuri that is from India, they will tell you it means mixed or out of caste but has a  derogatory connotation.
« Last Edit: September 08, 2012, 11:28:00 AM by gawd on pitch »

Offline Jah Gol

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Re: PNM Sour puss
« Reply #38 on: September 08, 2012, 01:21:35 PM »
I'm experiencing something strange in my understanding of things. It’s almost as if the emergence of this 'discourse' briefly warped my reality. As a schoolboy I never once viewed the steelpan as an African invention even though it was indisputably created by Trinidadians of African descent. The views in some quarters including that of the Prime Minister herself, which was quite unnecessarily revealed in her response to the President's comments during the opening of this session of Parliament, have created an ugly specter on the national identity.

It is unrealistic, no, it is absurd for the sake of political correctness to deny the past to create a convenient present. The systematic suppression of african culture , language and religion and the diametrically  opposite policy in the treatment of the indentured labourers created divergent pathways in development of the two major groups. I am cautious to also recognise that african descendants did in fact retain elements of their past despite the official policy and that Indians were not entirely closed to cultural adaptation or borrowing in this new space.

In my view the emergence of the steelpan , calypso and soca are the result of a passion to recreate a culture whereas in the indian experience a significant effort has  been placed on the retention and preservation of an already present identity and particularly in its most classical form. Consider the purity of classical indian dance which I must confess I find to be among most elegant and beautiful of all and the songs and the teaching of Hindi, and the adherence to the ancient faith of Hinduism and you must recognise a difference in the experience of the two groups and way their collective creations have been perceived nationally.

There is a tv station called IEtv that actually has "the # 1 Indian station" as a slogan, additionally there are several tv and radio stations as well as paid programmes on national tv that are specifically called 'indian format'. The thing I love most about the free market is it solves the problem of what goods and services should be produced or offered democratically. These stations and their programming would not exist if there was no demand or didn't reflect a particular interest. Conversely there is no Radio Yoruba.  It is clear the practice of  indian culture and the expression of indian artforms in Trinidad has and evidently continues reflect a parochial interest. I mention this only as a point of information and do not mean to cast aspersions on any group. I simply find it unreasonable to claim that indian culture has been under-represented in national history and in the national identity given the absence of any suppressive policy and in fact the historical support through the state media and avenues such as the Prime Minister’s Best Village Award or the stories in the books I read at school. 

It is no coincidence that as Dr. Williams said the only true national movement is carnival and the fact that steelpan , calypso and soca have been widely received and has come to represent the sound of Trinidad and Tobago at home and globally.Their popularity denigrates or marginalizes other artforms about as much as roti  marginalizes pelau.  I remember so vividly when the Soca Warriors returned from Bahrain victoriously, they were greeted at the airport by thousands and saluted by a throng of red clad mokojumbies and tassa drummers. I was emotional not only about our qualification but the sight and the sound of something so majestic and so beautiful and in that instant I knew nobody else did it like this. I remain unclear about the Prime Minister’s version of ‘unity in diversity.’

Offline Bakes

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Re: PNM Sour puss
« Reply #39 on: September 08, 2012, 02:59:57 PM »
Dougla doesn't mean 'bastard', I don't trust that Wikipedia definition because it cannot be substantiated. The word originally referred to the progeny of inter-varna marriages, or children born to parents from different caste sects. It subsequently took on racial tones once Indians began mixing with other races with greater frequency.

There are much more resources that can confirm the etymological root of the word dougla.

Think of the context in which this word was being introduced into the Trinidadian lexicon.. This was a time when many of the Indian men followed the caste system to a tee. If their daughters had children out of wedlock with the African-Caribbean man... Do you think he (the Indian grandfather) was willing to accept this? How do you think he referred to them..  hence dougla or doogala. 

The original meaning of the word is a symbol of the attitudes held by Indian men when their Indian daughters had children with Afri Caribbean men.

If you ask anyone who speaks Bhojpuri that is from India, they will tell you it means mixed or out of caste but has a  derogatory connotation.


How is that different from what I stated above?  Fact is there were no racial connotations or issues related to legitimacy (children born in or out of wedlock) associated with the word.  Therefore the "bastard" definition isn't really controlling or applicable.  Not to say that it may not have some minor connotation or legitimacy, since inter-varna marriages would have been frowned upon if not prohibited.  Therefore, if prohibited folks probably just had common law unions giving rise to 'bastard' kids.  Again though, that connotation would have been derived out of the original inter-varna meaning under this scenario.

As for what Indian men would have felt about their women marrying African Caribbean men... how could that possibly tell us anything about the original meaning of the word when the word itself pre-dated Indian/African mixing?   Of course this was the connotation it took on once transplanted to the Caribbean... of course in the Caribbean we know it refers specifically to that admixture, and yes, with negative connotations.
« Last Edit: September 08, 2012, 03:25:54 PM by Bakes »

Offline Bakes

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Re: PNM Sour puss
« Reply #40 on: September 08, 2012, 03:45:11 PM »
Great points Jah Gol... when you look at the premise for changing the mandate of the Min. of Culture... to Min. of Multiculturalism, that of promoting the many cultures represented in TnT.  How can they say with a straight face, "there is no Mother Africa or Mother India" when you suppressing the expression of one unified culture in favor of promoting a mosaic of cultures. This isn't the US where there has been an official policy of suppressing minority voices... we have never had that in Trinidad.  Of course many would argue, with some merit that the Williams PNM government didn't do enough for Indians, or to promote Indian culture... but Indians were doing a fine enough job of promoting their own culture even during this period.  They, unlike African slaves, were permitted to retain their cultural heritage... so it's been accepted, even if tacitly... from ever since they got off the ship.  Why the "we time now" attitude then... when it was never NOT 'your time'?

Offline just cool

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Re: PNM Sour puss
« Reply #41 on: September 08, 2012, 05:33:08 PM »
No other intellectuals come to mind immediately, but i will see what i can find should be educational if nothing else

T.I you dont have to search far....here are some names I am sure you are familiar with and Island Scholars in there own right...
Lionel Seemungal   Jerningham Medal back in the day when the gov't was TOUGH on awarding real scholarship...which I believe was in 1941 or 1942.
Rupert Seemungal
Lloyd Best... Sorbonne graduate if I recall

All I must add are QRC boys....

As for Canada Gawd..I would not say genius but Neil Bissoondath comes from the Capildeo Clan...(York Uni) graduate and married a Francophone...resides in that province they call Quebec I believe...

Gawd..I know you mean well like the rest of the Canucks..u UFT,York, UBC, Queens or McMaster of hard knocks???

I didnt single you out....and I all about learning...

Its interesting you gentleman are all talking about trini accomplishments and I feel sorry when I look at how dem Canadian does call yuh dey own but once any form of _uck up....crappo smoke yuh pipe..eg Ben Johnson...we love u Donovan Bailey...u sound so eloquent.... Ben......WHO
To make things easy, there's a book by dr eric williams called "the history of the people of trinidad and tobago",  in that book there's a whole chapter that is dedicated towards the east indian contribution to T&T.

now ah man would have to be ah complete fool to think that the biggest populous of T&T didn't make any significant contribution to the nation, and though indians did not make big cultural or sporting strides in the outside world putting T&T on the map, they did however excelled in other areas and made positive contributions to the nation unknown to the outside world.        check out the book.
The pen is mightier than the sword, Africa for Africans home and abroad.Trinidad is not my home just a pit stop, Africa is my destination,final destination the MOST HIGH.

Offline Jah Gol

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Re: PNM Sour puss
« Reply #42 on: September 08, 2012, 05:35:58 PM »
No other intellectuals come to mind immediately, but i will see what i can find should be educational if nothing else

T.I you dont have to search far....here are some names I am sure you are familiar with and Island Scholars in there own right...
Lionel Seemungal   Jerningham Medal back in the day when the gov't was TOUGH on awarding real scholarship...which I believe was in 1941 or 1942.
Rupert Seemungal
Lloyd Best... Sorbonne graduate if I recall

All I must add are QRC boys....

As for Canada Gawd..I would not say genius but Neil Bissoondath comes from the Capildeo Clan...(York Uni) graduate and married a Francophone...resides in that province they call Quebec I believe...

Gawd..I know you mean well like the rest of the Canucks..u UFT,York, UBC, Queens or McMaster of hard knocks???

I didnt single you out....and I all about learning...

Its interesting you gentleman are all talking about trini accomplishments and I feel sorry when I look at how dem Canadian does call yuh dey own but once any form of _uck up....crappo smoke yuh pipe..eg Ben Johnson...we love u Donovan Bailey...u sound so eloquent.... Ben......WHO
To make things easy, there's a book by dr eric williams called "the history of the people of trinidad and tobago",  in that book there's a whole chapter that is dedicated towards the east indian contribution to T&T.

now ah man would have to be ah complete fool to think that the biggest populous of T&T didn't make any significant contribution to the nation, and though indians did not make big cultural or sporting strides in the outside world putting T&T on the map, they did however excelled in other areas and made positive contributions to the nation unknown to the outside world.        check out the book.
It should have been required reading of every school child in this country. Good stuff.

Offline Jah Gol

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Re: PNM Sour puss
« Reply #43 on: September 08, 2012, 05:55:27 PM »
Great points Jah Gol... when you look at the premise for changing the mandate of the Min. of Culture... to Min. of Multiculturalism, that of promoting the many cultures represented in TnT.  How can they say with a straight face, "there is no Mother Africa or Mother India" when you suppressing the expression of one unified culture in favor of promoting a mosaic of cultures. This isn't the US where there has been an official policy of suppressing minority voices... we have never had that in Trinidad.  Of course many would argue, with some merit that the Williams PNM government didn't do enough for Indians, or to promote Indian culture... but Indians were doing a fine enough job of promoting their own culture even during this period.  They, unlike African slaves, were permitted to retain their cultural heritage... so it's been accepted, even if tacitly... from ever since they got off the ship.  Why the "we time now" attitude then... when it was never NOT 'your time'?
I was always bemused by this Ministry of Multiculturalism. The  Ministry of National Diversity and Social Integration is another gem. Even Minister Clifton De Coteau said he didn't know what it all about.

Offline gawd on pitch

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Re: PNM Sour puss
« Reply #44 on: September 08, 2012, 07:28:30 PM »
Dougla doesn't mean 'bastard', I don't trust that Wikipedia definition because it cannot be substantiated. The word originally referred to the progeny of inter-varna marriages, or children born to parents from different caste sects. It subsequently took on racial tones once Indians began mixing with other races with greater frequency.

There are much more resources that can confirm the etymological root of the word dougla.

Think of the context in which this word was being introduced into the Trinidadian lexicon.. This was a time when many of the Indian men followed the caste system to a tee. If their daughters had children out of wedlock with the African-Caribbean man... Do you think he (the Indian grandfather) was willing to accept this? How do you think he referred to them..  hence dougla or doogala. 

The original meaning of the word is a symbol of the attitudes held by Indian men when their Indian daughters had children with Afri Caribbean men.

If you ask anyone who speaks Bhojpuri that is from India, they will tell you it means mixed or out of caste but has a  derogatory connotation.


How is that different from what I stated above?  Fact is there were no racial connotations or issues related to legitimacy (children born in or out of wedlock) associated with the word.  Therefore the "bastard" definition isn't really controlling or applicable.  Not to say that it may not have some minor connotation or legitimacy, since inter-varna marriages would have been frowned upon if not prohibited.  Therefore, if prohibited folks probably just had common law unions giving rise to 'bastard' kids.  Again though, that connotation would have been derived out of the original inter-varna meaning under this scenario.

As for what Indian men would have felt about their women marrying African Caribbean men... how could that possibly tell us anything about the original meaning of the word when the word itself pre-dated Indian/African mixing?   Of course this was the connotation it took on once transplanted to the Caribbean... of course in the Caribbean we know it refers specifically to that admixture, and yes, with negative connotations.

Good point Bakes.. But I cant think of another experience where this word "dougla or doogala" would have been more appropriate from the Indian man's view.

Also, it is a agreed that dougla  has some relationship to something derogatory. Inter racial mixing or miscegenation also occurred between Indian and European. Now is there any negative or derogatory term to describe the offspring of Indian and European?


Offline Bakes

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Re: PNM Sour puss
« Reply #45 on: September 08, 2012, 09:10:09 PM »
Good point Bakes.. But I cant think of another experience where this word "dougla or doogala" would have been more appropriate from the Indian man's view.

Also, it is a agreed that dougla  has some relationship to something derogatory. Inter racial mixing or miscegenation also occurred between Indian and European. Now is there any negative or derogatory term to describe the offspring of Indian and European?



Definitely derogatory... inter-caste mixing was frowned upon.  Technically speaking "dogala" would apply to Indo-Europeans as well, even though they belong to the same race.

Offline gawd on pitch

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Re: PNM Sour puss
« Reply #46 on: September 09, 2012, 01:37:41 PM »
Good point Bakes.. But I cant think of another experience where this word "dougla or doogala" would have been more appropriate from the Indian man's view.

Also, it is a agreed that dougla  has some relationship to something derogatory. Inter racial mixing or miscegenation also occurred between Indian and European. Now is there any negative or derogatory term to describe the offspring of Indian and European?



Definitely derogatory... inter-caste mixing was frowned upon.  Technically speaking "dogala" would apply to Indo-Europeans as well, even though they belong to the same race.

You would think so Bakes..

"Lighter skin" is not frowned upon in Hindu culture/religion. However, "darker skin" is. . We do not have to go far to see how much "lighter" or even "white" skin is exalted in Hindi culture/religion . In that culture/religion "mixing up" (Indian and European) is much more favourable in than "mixing down" (Indian and African). And yes, "doogala" could probably mean mixing Indian and European. But its use will depend on who is in the position of power.

Even in our Caribbean culture, darker skin is frowned upon. Having lighter skin usually means better life chances in the Caribbean. Specifically, more opportunities.

Offline weary1969

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Re: PNM Sour puss
« Reply #47 on: September 09, 2012, 08:50:27 PM »
Great points Jah Gol... when you look at the premise for changing the mandate of the Min. of Culture... to Min. of Multiculturalism, that of promoting the many cultures represented in TnT.  How can they say with a straight face, "there is no Mother Africa or Mother India" when you suppressing the expression of one unified culture in favor of promoting a mosaic of cultures. This isn't the US where there has been an official policy of suppressing minority voices... we have never had that in Trinidad.  Of course many would argue, with some merit that the Williams PNM government didn't do enough for Indians, or to promote Indian culture... but Indians were doing a fine enough job of promoting their own culture even during this period.  They, unlike African slaves, were permitted to retain their cultural heritage... so it's been accepted, even if tacitly... from ever since they got off the ship.  Why the "we time now" attitude then... when it was never NOT 'your time'?
I was always bemused by this Ministry of Multiculturalism. The  Ministry of National Diversity and Social Integration is another gem. Even Minister Clifton De Coteau said he didn't know what it all about.

He just enuff of Tim and they give him a Ministry.
Today you're the dog, tomorrow you're the hydrant - so be good to others - it comes back!"

Offline Bakes

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Re: PNM Sour puss
« Reply #48 on: September 09, 2012, 09:46:34 PM »
You would think so Bakes..

"Lighter skin" is not frowned upon in Hindu culture/religion. However, "darker skin" is. . We do not have to go far to see how much "lighter" or even "white" skin is exalted in Hindi culture/religion . In that culture/religion "mixing up" (Indian and European) is much more favourable in than "mixing down" (Indian and African). And yes, "doogala" could probably mean mixing Indian and European. But its use will depend on who is in the position of power.

Even in our Caribbean culture, darker skin is frowned upon. Having lighter skin usually means better life chances in the Caribbean. Specifically, more opportunities.

Whether it's frowned upon or not, the term "dogala" would technically still apply.  Now whether it's actually applied in practice or whether there's another term, I don't know.

Offline warmonga

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Re: PNM Sour puss
« Reply #49 on: September 17, 2012, 07:53:35 AM »
here we go again PNM dunce ass voted on the thing and now bawling.. talk bout freeking sour puss..
http://www.trinidadexpress.com/news/Rowley_must_resign-169988026.html
AG slams Opposition failure to act on Section 34

 By Anna Ramdass anna.ramdass@trinidadexpress.com



Story Created: Sep 16, 2012 at 11:56 PM ECT
(
Story Updated: Sep 17, 2012 at 12:16 AM ECT )


Attorney General Anand Ramlogan has repeated his call for the resignation of Opposition Leader Dr Keith Rowley.
 
Asked to comment last night on Rowley's plan to march tomorrow from the Red House on St Vincent Street to President's House, around the Queen's Park Savannah against Government's proclamation of Section 34 of the Administration of Justice (Indictable Proceedings) Act, Ramlogan said Rowley needs to explain to the people why he supported the legislation.
 
Rowley, he said, is trying to deflect attention from the fact that he led the PNM in voting for Section 34 in both the Upper and Lower House.
 
"He has failed to clarify and answer questions regarding his rationale for voting for Section 34
. whether it was proclaimed by itself or as part of the entire Act in one go, the undisputable fact is accused persons with pending cases would have been able to make application and walk free," said Ramlogan.
 
"This would have been so whenever the law he voted for was proclaimed. He seeks to divert attention from the PNM support for this crucial limitation on criminal prosecution. I therefore call upon him to do a separate petition explaining why he supported such a measure whether he consulted the PNM membership on same," he added.
 
He said Rowley cannot "blow hot and cold" at the same time.

"He ought properly therefore to do the decent thing and resign as Opposition Leader on account of his unexplained flip flop. The nation is yet to hear why he passed a law that will allow accused persons to walk free without facing trial," said Ramlogan.
 
Questioned on Rowley's call for a new Attorney General to preside over the legal matters involving businessmen Steve Ferguson and Ishwar Galbaransingh, Ramlogan responded: "All criminal prosecutions are under the sole discretion and control of the DPP, so this call demonstrates his lack of understanding of the constitutional role and responsibility of these two offices."
Black Lives Matter..

Offline elan

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Re: PNM Sour puss
« Reply #50 on: September 17, 2012, 12:19:39 PM »
here we go again PNM dunce ass voted on the thing and now bawling.. talk bout freeking sour puss..
http://www.trinidadexpress.com/news/Rowley_must_resign-169988026.html
AG slams Opposition failure to act on Section 34

 By Anna Ramdass anna.ramdass@trinidadexpress.com



Story Created: Sep 16, 2012 at 11:56 PM ECT
(
Story Updated: Sep 17, 2012 at 12:16 AM ECT )


Attorney General Anand Ramlogan has repeated his call for the resignation of Opposition Leader Dr Keith Rowley.
 
Asked to comment last night on Rowley's plan to march tomorrow from the Red House on St Vincent Street to President's House, around the Queen's Park Savannah against Government's proclamation of Section 34 of the Administration of Justice (Indictable Proceedings) Act, Ramlogan said Rowley needs to explain to the people why he supported the legislation.
 
Rowley, he said, is trying to deflect attention from the fact that he led the PNM in voting for Section 34 in both the Upper and Lower House.
 
"He has failed to clarify and answer questions regarding his rationale for voting for Section 34
. whether it was proclaimed by itself or as part of the entire Act in one go, the undisputable fact is accused persons with pending cases would have been able to make application and walk free," said Ramlogan.
 
"This would have been so whenever the law he voted for was proclaimed. He seeks to divert attention from the PNM support for this crucial limitation on criminal prosecution. I therefore call upon him to do a separate petition explaining why he supported such a measure whether he consulted the PNM membership on same," he added.
 
He said Rowley cannot "blow hot and cold" at the same time.

"He ought properly therefore to do the decent thing and resign as Opposition Leader on account of his unexplained flip flop. The nation is yet to hear why he passed a law that will allow accused persons to walk free without facing trial," said Ramlogan.
 
Questioned on Rowley's call for a new Attorney General to preside over the legal matters involving businessmen Steve Ferguson and Ishwar Galbaransingh, Ramlogan responded: "All criminal prosecutions are under the sole discretion and control of the DPP, so this call demonstrates his lack of understanding of the constitutional role and responsibility of these two offices."


Dude trying following the thing as it unravel nah. Read ah couple thread regarding yuh PM and them skullduggery with the BIG 34.
<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/blUSVALW_Z4" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/blUSVALW_Z4</a>

Offline lefty

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Re: PNM Sour puss
« Reply #51 on: September 17, 2012, 03:01:50 PM »
Dude trying following the thing as it unravel nah. Read ah couple thread regarding yuh PM and them skullduggery with the BIG 34.
u have time

Propaganda does not deceive people; it merely helps them to deceive themselves. - Eric Hoffer

wuss if d motive is purely ethnic.....steups u should know war seen long time
I pity the fool....

Offline Deeks

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Re: PNM Sour puss
« Reply #52 on: September 17, 2012, 04:21:17 PM »
War, did you follow the entire espiode. The all voted for the law. They all agree that the law will be implemented in 2013. Then , Independence day Volney and Anand (with full knowledge of the UNC) went to the President to implement the law. What kind of crap is that. You yourself would have infliction some JA cuss words on Anand and Volney.

All the time allyuh jumping on Rowley. He and the PNM decided to go along then allyuh want to cut they throat. From now on Rowley and them should be nitpickey for every bill that come thru parliament. "why that "i" is not dotted? why that "t" is not crossed?
« Last Edit: September 17, 2012, 04:32:07 PM by Deeks »

Offline FF

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Re: PNM Sour puss
« Reply #53 on: September 17, 2012, 04:46:30 PM »
Look the relevant parts here Deeks... it have none so blind as those who will not see


When the Bill was debated in Parliament, the impact of the Act on the current Piarco related cases was raised by the PNM. The Parliament received assurances from the Minister who piloted the Bill that the Act would not be proclaimed until the necessary infrastructure to administer the legislation was put in place.

 Additional Masters of the Court had to be appointed.

 Criminal Procedure Rules had to be brought to Parliament to allow for the operation of the new system.
The judiciary had to re organize itself to deal with the anticipated flood of applications.
In short, Parliament and the people of this country were assured by the current Minister of Justice that no one could benefit from the legislation until these necessary infrastructural changes were put in place including passage of further legislation in Parliament.

On the 18th November 2011 the Minister Volney stated in the Senate during the debate on the Bill:
“So while this measure can work without rules because it establishes a framework, I can assure members opposite that nothing is going to be proclaimed before all the necessary measures required to make it succeed happens.” (Page 127 Hansard- Senate- 2011.11.18)

These changes take time and money to be put into effect and are yet to be completed.
It is therefore a cause for alarm to learn that the legislation was proclaimed and put into force, during the 50th Anniversary Independence celebrations, without prior warning, in the circumstance where the Preliminary Enquiry into the Airport charges is about to resume, thereby appearing to facilitate the making of an application to a judge by accused in the Piarco Airport scandal for an order to declare themselves NOT GUILTY. 

In other words, despite the absence of the promised infrastructure, the government has proceeded to make the Act law so that person may now claim the benefit of the Act. Without the proclamation, the accused in the Piarco matters would have to submit to a Preliminary Enquiry which could result in their trial before judge and jury.
THE BEATINGS WILL CONTINUE UNTIL MORALE IMPROVES

Offline warmonga

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Re: PNM Sour puss
« Reply #54 on: September 22, 2012, 10:36:53 AM »
heare di c**trell again...

Talk bout sour f**kin Puss.....!!!!!!!!!!!!!

THE People's Partnership Government can expect absolutely no cooperation from the Opposition People's National Movement (PNM) from now on, Opposition Leader Dr Keith Rowley has said.
 
Rowley said the PNM was willing to "communicate, consult and mobilise" with all forces in opposition to the government and was now calling for early general elections.
 
Rowley made the statement yesterday at a press conference at the Port of Spain office of the Opposition Leader where he responded to Prime Minister Kamla Persad-Bissessar's address on the Section 34 fiasco on Thursday night.
 
"We want to put the Government on notice that from here on in, for whatever time they remain in office, they can expect absolutely no cooperation from the Opposition and we want to put the country on notice that we are not prepared to accept without protest a government that is so stained and so shamed so we would now move to communicate with, to consult with, to discuss with and to mobilise in this country the people of this country who will say that wrong is wrong and right is right... we come down on the side of right," Rowley said.
 
"We will not cooperate with this Government and we are of the view that there are people in the Cabinet, in the Government who on proper investigation can be shown to be engaged in criminal conduct because all of this is one grand design with one particular effect....and the effect has been perverting the course of justice," he said.
 
Rowley said the People's Partnership administration led by Persad-Bissessar was unfit to be in office.
 
"They do not deserve to be in office, they have betrayed the trust of the people of Trinidad and Tobago. They are stained and they are shamed and they must leave office and we are calling for elections now," Rowley said.
 
Asked whether the willingness to collaborate with other political entities was against PNM policy, Rowley said:
 
"The PNM remains the PNM but we will extend our reaches to cooperate, invite and collaborate with any citizen in this country who is prepared to stand for decency and tell this Government enough is enough and you have not fooled us," he added.
Black Lives Matter..

truetrini

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Re: PNM Sour puss
« Reply #55 on: September 22, 2012, 09:26:10 PM »
warmonga yuh is some kinda serious c**t boi.   Steups...de f**king PP doing shit, they corrupt eeking to pervert justice and yuh want to have people coperate with dem and they betraying the trust?  f**king eediat bwoy shut tuh f**k up nah  de PP is c**ts

Offline warmonga

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Re: PNM Sour puss
« Reply #56 on: September 29, 2012, 01:11:17 AM »
and di sour puss is back at it again... now he stop holding meeting wid gangsters now he sucking di union dem cock.. talk bout sour PUSS!!!!!!!!!!


Some 17 organisations, including the People’s National Movement, the Movement for Social Justice, the Joint Consultative Council and other civil organisations last night demanded the immediate removal of National Security Minister Jack Warner and Attorney General Anand Ramlogan from the Cabinet. That was among the major recommendations contained in the declaration issued by the group after a three-and-a-half hour meeting at Hotel Normandie, St Ann’s.
 
 
 
The issue of the proclamation of Section 34 of the Administration of Justice (Indictable Proceedings) Act 2011 and the subsequent attacks on media workers in T&T were among the major discussion points at the meeting. Ossie Warrick, secretary of the Joint Trade Union Movement told reporters there was a need for the People’s Partnership Government, led by Prime Minister Kamla Persad-Bissessar, to explain the entire Section 34 fiasco.
 
 
 
The call was made hours after acting President Timothy Hamel-Smith issued a statement saying citizens had a right to be concerned about the development. Warrick said Warner’s attack on President George Maxwell Richards, Dean Sampson, of the Anglican Church, and Asha Javeed, a journalist, “was an attack on the head of State, the clergy and freedom of expression and freedom of the press.
 
 
 
Warrick said the groups remained “committed to further action to ensure the these demands are met.” He said the meeting wanted fundamental change to the system of governance and the need for constitutional reform.  Opposition Leader Dr Keith Rowley led the People’s National Movement team, which included the party’s vice-chairman Camille Robinson-Regis,  PNM whip Marlene McDonald and PNM PRO Senator Faris Al-Rawi. Some 41 people attended the meeting.
 
 
 
Meanwhile, Rowley was the recipient of a death threat yesterday. Sources revealed this, saying it appeared to be a matter of serious concern. Sources said Rowley was told of the threat earlier yesterday. Sources say he reported the matter to the police. Rowley, however, did not comment on the matter last night.
 
 
 
The PNM leader had been in the forefront of criticisms of the Government in the past several months. He told a party meeting in Five Rivers on Wednesday it was time for someone to stand up against the Government in the interest of the nation and put citizens of T&T first.
 
Black Lives Matter..

Offline mukumsplau

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Re: PNM Sour puss
« Reply #57 on: September 29, 2012, 05:05:45 AM »
how old is warmonga?

Offline gawd on pitch

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Re: PNM Sour puss
« Reply #58 on: September 29, 2012, 08:15:19 AM »
how old is warmonga?

lol.. War is an ole boi. He pushing at least 65.. Just kidding

Offline warmonga

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Re: PNM Sour puss
« Reply #59 on: September 29, 2012, 05:55:40 PM »
how old is warmonga?
I really dont tell woman mi age but you is an exception .. I am 40 years ole gunta with 5 boys and still throwing wood .  I dont discriminate wid woman I throwing wood on any kind .. yu looking for a man?
war


war
« Last Edit: September 29, 2012, 06:00:21 PM by warmonga »
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