Racism in football Thread.

[morvant]

i've been to sigonella and experienced racism

[Blue]

i've been to sigonella and experienced racism

Who plays in Sigonella?

[morvant]

i've been to sigonella and experienced racism

Who plays in Sigonella?

yuh say italy so ah telling yuh when i went to sig and was at some local football game men was watching meh funny and i could feel de (how could i say this in english) vibes on meh neck.

[Augi]

Will have to be italy

[davidephraim]

 I still believe that the Italian Authority and the courtrymen who bought into the foolishness are probably the most blatant haters around the world. This is my biased judgement and I make it on the grounds of deeds passed.

Show of hands - anyone been to an Italian football match. Or Spanish? Or Turkish? Or know anyone that's been and experienced racism? 

This statement was not based on football this was just as a country. On a soccer note I happen to dislike Argentina the most.

[Jumbie]

this thread is kinda ironic since it will expose our own biases and ignorance...most have no clue what they are talking about and their answers to this question are based on guessing and broad generalizations...every country has a racist element...do not let the press tell you who is more racist than who. just because their is less racism in a football stadium does not say squat about the attitudes of the general public.....I've been to a lot of places and the greatest racism I have ever experienced is in Brazil...but Brazil does not have a particularly racist reputation, and I certainly do not think there is more racism there than anywhere else. Racists from their ignorant opinions by using broad generalizations and using a few negative examples and attributing it to everyone of a certain ilk...and that is exactly what we doing on this thread....

Funny you should say Brazil. My cousin (he's there right now) have been going to Brazil every year now for the past 5-6 years for the winter (3-4 months). The main reason he goes there other than he now has a house there is the fact that as he says "it the most comfortable place i've ever been.. he claims that white, black green blue.. all live better together, than he's ever experienced. Even better than the way he remembered it being in trinidad. He says that he does not get the feeling that he's black. or judged or identified by the colour of his skin or the curl of his hair. He referred to by his name and not his features (the black guy).

I'll have to ask him when we speak next if his judgment is based on his eyes being clouded by all the bubblenuts.. on the copa beaches.

[kicker]

this thread is kinda ironic since it will expose our own biases and ignorance...most have no clue what they are talking about and their answers to this question are based on guessing and broad generalizations...every country has a racist element...do not let the press tell you who is more racist than who. just because their is less racism in a football stadium does not say squat about the attitudes of the general public.....I've been to a lot of places and the greatest racism I have ever experienced is in Brazil...but Brazil does not have a particularly racist reputation, and I certainly do not think there is more racism there than anywhere else. Racists from their ignorant opinions by using broad generalizations and using a few negative examples and attributing it to everyone of a certain ilk...and that is exactly what we doing on this thread....

Good point but looking at the origninal question I think it was supposed to be a football racism question

with all this issue of racism in soccer, i was wondering , just out of sheer curiosity,which country you think would black soccer players be most uncomfortable? due to racism on/off the field?

.......but the part about on/off the field sorta broadened it and made it unclear......football or not, it is impossible to measure racism, and most of us can only go off what we hear in the press......If I had to guess which country it would be most uncomfortable for a black player just based on the press, I'd have to say Spain & Italy. But I could imagine it to be difficult in Eastern Europe as well (but news coming out of those leagues is alot more limited)

[Trinimassive]

Italy, Spain, Greece, Argentina. I hate Italy and Argentina the worst wid spain comin in 3rd.

I would concur with all the countries yuh name there. Some fellas asking how yuh know the country racist yuh ever been there...etc.

Many of the countries named throughout this thread have a racist past and don't have the kind of laws to help stamp out racism.  

And yes Brazil does have problems...more of an Superior vs Inferior population...Not seen as much as racist because many "Black" Brazilians don't even consider themselves Black. Well until they go other countries where they get called Black like in the US.

[Pointman]

this thread is kinda ironic since it will expose our own biases and ignorance...most have no clue what they are talking about and their answers to this question are based on guessing and broad generalizations...every country has a racist element...do not let the press tell you who is more racist than who. just because their is less racism in a football stadium does not say squat about the attitudes of the general public.....I've been to a lot of places and the greatest racism I have ever experienced is in Brazil...but Brazil does not have a particularly racist reputation, and I certainly do not think there is more racism there than anywhere else. Racists from their ignorant opinions by using broad generalizations and using a few negative examples and attributing it to everyone of a certain ilk...and that is exactly what we doing on this thread....

Funny you should say Brazil. My cousin (he's there right now) have been going to Brazil every year now for the past 5-6 years for the winter (3-4 months). The main reason he goes there other than he now has a house there is the fact that as he says "it the most comfortable place i've ever been.. he claims that white, black green blue.. all live better together, than he's ever experienced. Even better than the way he remembered it being in trinidad. He says that he does not get the feeling that he's black. or judged or identified by the colour of his skin or the curl of his hair. He referred to by his name and not his features (the black guy).

I'll have to ask him when we speak next if his judgment is based on his eyes being clouded by all the bubblenuts.. on the copa beaches.

I think it's safe to say that every country will have a different racial outlook on how Black folks are viewed and treated based on a number of different factors...history  being the main factor.

Brazil's racial climate is different from T&T's which is different from the US which is different from Mexico etc, etc. In terms of football, I don't think a Black player will have the same experience playing in Brazil as in Spain or Italy. At the same token outside of football, Blacks in Brazil have a very difficult life. Money is also a MAJOR factor in how people(Blacks) are treated in most countries...if you have money yuh cool if not tuff.

[Teflon Don]

Serbia

to be honest not really...have sum black frens that play water polo out there......ITALY is by far the most racist

[saga pinto]

The truth is you'll find many countries with a racist side...........

[NYtriniwhiteboy..]

The truth is you'll find many countries with a racist side...........

racists are everywhere...but some places they a lil more open about it than others...
Up here in upstate new york first question a couple pple from de area ask me wen i said i from Trinidad is how i make out with all de black pple...i does hadda ask if thats a serious question...cuz i does jus be in shock

[Andre]

eastern europe and russia supposed to be real bad. i eh going there to find out though.

[warmonga]

I hear nuff man saying Italy ..yet still dey praying for  Italy to beat USA?.. Dat means dey promoting Racialism!!!!!!!! but wah this fadda?
warmonga

[fishs]

eastern europe and russia supposed to be real bad. i eh going there to find out though.

Nah, it eh bad fuh de genuine black man. Is de darker white people that in trouble in Russia, like de kazahks, Azeris , Georgians etc, dey skin lil darker than de white white Russians an dey does actually call them " Blackies". Go figure , white people calling white people black.

[marcel]

the usa!

i have a friend ,and she is dutch,she is not white and lives now for about a year in the usa,she witnessed a klu klux clan demonstration,with the white hads and all!!!!
she couldn´t believe it!
i come from holland and have been in every country in europe ,but there is allmost no racism anymore,not the way the usa have it at this moment.

but what can you expect from a country where the average IQ is maesured by the amount of jerry springer episodes that you have seen.

[Pompey]

the usa!

i have a friend ,and she is dutch,she is not white and lives now for about a year in the usa,she witnessed a klu klux clan demonstration,with the white hads and all!!!!
she couldn´t believe it!
i come from holland and have been in every country in europe ,but there is allmost no racism anymore,not the way the usa have it at this moment.

but what can you expect from a country where the average IQ is maesured by the amount of jerry springer episodes that you have seen.

One nation of the people, for the people, as long as you are a white christian male.

Why is it, If you watch an eminem video, there are black and white singers/dancers. If you watch a Puff Daddy, snoop dog, 50 cent  video, there are no white people to be seen.

Does America have a racial issue, or just a racial divide?

[Pompey]

to answer the question though, if you look at the recent history of Serbia, Croatia, Bosnia etc, there has been attempted "Ethnic Cleansing" so it would be fair to say that the most racist countries are down there, however, I think this may be directed more intenally than externally.

However, i do recall English Black players being taunted in an Eastern European country.

[marcel]

yes ,ok,but i think that the worldcup allso is being played in a country were there were some ´etnic cleanings' ......

but the poorer european countries have more racism thats true.

its peanuts compared to the usa.

[Filho]

the usa!

i have a friend ,and she is dutch,she is not white and lives now for about a year in the usa,she witnessed a klu klux clan demonstration,with the white hads and all!!!!
she couldn´t believe it!
i come from holland and have been in every country in europe ,but there is allmost no racism anymore,not the way the usa have it at this moment.

but what can you expect from a country where the average IQ is maesured by the amount of jerry springer episodes that you have seen.

One nation of the people, for the people, as long as you are a white christian male.

Why is it, If you watch an eminem video, there are black and white singers/dancers. If you watch a Puff Daddy, snoop dog, 50 cent  video, there are no white people to be seen.

Does America have a racial issue, or just a racial divide?

your hip hop example simply isn't true...but it is kinda funny
Your sentiments about America cannot be denied though. The country has racist problems, but as a nation it is relatively open about it and there are a lot of people and organizations with political clout who work to stamp it out, with varying degrees of success. I believe that the one truth about racism in the US is...white people think there less than there really is...and black people think there more than there really is. But the US also seems more racist because Americans like to talk about it...always...the media is seems to be always uncovering the issue somewhere. If you look for it..you will find it. And America is always lookign for it, unlike most European nations. I do not think the average white American is less enlightened than the average white Brit...Brits and Europeans as a whole tend to be less vocal in their racism. And like England, you won't really find it in sports arenas...in fact, hte US is way ahead of England on that score....that says nothing to me about racism in actually society, but some seem to like to use that as ane xample...so I broought it up. I have been here for 13 years and the only time I have seen anything explicity racist was from a German tourist....well....I guess he could have been Austrian or Swiss German 

[Filho]

yes ,ok,but i think that the worldcup allso is being played in a country were there were some ´etnic cleanings' ......

but the poorer european countries have more racism thats true.

its peanuts compared to the usa.

you are so clearly anti US you are starting to sound irrational....ethnic cleansing in Serbia is peanuts to racism in the US today?
A Klu Klux clan rally is pretty disgusting, but it has lost its menace and happens less and less...

Holland seems like a very racially open country. I have a cousine who lives in Amsterdam and loves it and she is black. But let's be honest..in most of continental Europe today, the treatment of Jews, Gypsies and Arabs is as horrendous. You may find a klu klux rally here and there in the US, but you will find a neo nazi skin-head rally every week in your friendly neighborhood football stadium all over continental Europe...including Holland. In many cases (not all) blacks face equal amounts of racism in Europe as in the US, but one can argue that our numbers are so few, we are often not seen as a real threat on the landscape......once blacks become a large enough part of the population, you see changing attitudes...like France...very open and racially-integrated by European standards...yet a right-wing, anti-immigration political party has come close to winning general elections there last time around...my point is, it is impossible to actually measure the degrees of racism. Europeans should not point fingers either...they ahve their own dirty laundry to deal with.....Anyway, we could argue for eternity...and we would probably still all be right to some degree...

[Pompey]

the usa!

i have a friend ,and she is dutch,she is not white and lives now for about a year in the usa,she witnessed a klu klux clan demonstration,with the white hads and all!!!!
she couldn´t believe it!
i come from holland and have been in every country in europe ,but there is allmost no racism anymore,not the way the usa have it at this moment.

but what can you expect from a country where the average IQ is maesured by the amount of jerry springer episodes that you have seen.

One nation of the people, for the people, as long as you are a white christian male.

Why is it, If you watch an eminem video, there are black and white singers/dancers. If you watch a Puff Daddy, snoop dog, 50 cent  video, there are no white people to be seen.

Does America have a racial issue, or just a racial divide?

your hip hop example simply isn't true...but it is kinda funny
Your sentiments about America cannot be denied though. The country has racist problems, but as a nation it is relatively open about it and there are a lot of people and organizations with political clout who work to stamp it out, with varying degrees of success. I believe that the one truth about racism in the US is...white people think there less than there really is...and black people think there more than there really is. But the US also seems more racist because Americans like to talk about it...always...the media is seems to be always uncovering the issue somewhere. If you look for it..you will find it. And America is always lookign for it, unlike most European nations. I do not think the average white American is less enlightened than the average white Brit...Brits and Europeans as a whole tend to be less vocal in their racism. And like England, you won't really find it in sports arenas...in fact, hte US is way ahead of England on that score....that says nothing to me about racism in actually society, but some seem to like to use that as ane xample...so I broought it up. I have been here for 13 years and the only time I have seen anything explicity racist was from a German tourist....well....I guess he could have been Austrian or Swiss German 

the Hip Hop example was meant to be fairly light hearted, but that is the impression that i get of the states and certaily the impression I got of New York.

But then again, most of my impressions of the States come from MTV and Hollywood so i am very impressed by the way some hip hop artists can also Box, fight aliens, make geeks more attractive to women and save Los Angeles from drug barons ably assisted by a stand up comedian. By the way, where is Belle Aire?

[Jayerson]

this thread is kinda ironic since it will expose our own biases and ignorance...most have no clue what they are talking about and their answers to this question are based on guessing and broad generalizations...every country has a racist element...do not let the press tell you who is more racist than who. just because their is less racism in a football stadium does not say squat about the attitudes of the general public.....I've been to a lot of places and the greatest racism I have ever experienced is in Brazil...but Brazil does not have a particularly racist reputation, and I certainly do not think there is more racism there than anywhere else. Racists from their ignorant opinions by using broad generalizations and using a few negative examples and attributing it to everyone of a certain ilk...and that is exactly what we doing on this thread....

Funny you should say Brazil. My cousin (he's there right now) have been going to Brazil every year now for the past 5-6 years for the winter (3-4 months). The main reason he goes there other than he now has a house there is the fact that as he says "it the most comfortable place i've ever been.. he claims that white, black green blue.. all live better together, than he's ever experienced. Even better than the way he remembered it being in trinidad. He says that he does not get the feeling that he's black. or judged or identified by the colour of his skin or the curl of his hair. He referred to by his name and not his features (the black guy).

I'll have to ask him when we speak next if his judgment is based on his eyes being clouded by all the bubblenuts.. on the copa beaches.

From what I've read, it's more of a class thing in Brazil and also brothers and sisters of the same parents are sometimes classed in different racial categories.

As far as I know, in football terms, Italy,Spain and Argentina. As you can see these countries are very similar as most Argentines are of Spanish and Italian decent. Also these countries, although many attempts have been made to hide it, have had a signifcant black presence in the past.

[Pompey]

yes ,ok,but i think that the worldcup allso is being played in a country were there were some ´etnic cleanings' ......

but the poorer european countries have more racism thats true.

its peanuts compared to the usa.

you are so clearly anti US you are starting to sound irrational....ethnic cleansing in Serbia is peanuts to racism in the US today?
A Klu Klux clan rally is pretty disgusting, but it has lost its menace and happens less and less...

Holland seems like a very racially open country. I have a cousine who lives in Amsterdam and loves it and she is black. But let's be honest..in most of continental Europe today, the treatment of Jews, Gypsies and Arabs is as horrendous. You may find a klu klux rally here and there in the US, but you will find a neo nazi skin-head rally every week in your friendly neighborhood football stadium all over continental Europe...including Holland. In many cases (not all) blacks face equal amounts of racism in Europe as in the US, but one can argue that our numbers are so few, we are often not seen as a real threat on the landscape......once blacks become a large enough part of the population, you see changing attitudes...like France...very open and racially-integrated by European standards...yet a right-wing, anti-immigration political party has come close to winning general elections there last time around...my point is, it is impossible to actually measure the degrees of racism. Europeans should not point fingers either...they ahve their own dirty laundry to deal with.....Anyway, we could argue for eternity...and we would probably still all be right to some degree...

I can understand your point and I am obviously only speaking from a moderate white position, but I would say you are being a bit harsh on Europe there. I am not saying there is room for complacency, in parts of the UK the BNP are getting stronger and stronger and feeding off peoples fears of Immigration and crime, but the average British person recognises the significance of these extremists and will not be prepared to let them get too powerful.

all the time you have got Muslims blowing themselves up on buses though, you will have fuel for the fascists.

[Filho]

I can understand your point and I am obviously only speaking from a moderate white position, but I would say you are being a bit harsh on Europe there. I am not saying there is room for complacency, in parts of the UK the BNP are getting stronger and stronger and feeding off peoples fears of Immigration and crime, but the average British person recognises the significance of these extremists and will not be prepared to let them get too powerful.

all the time you have got Muslims blowing themselves up on buses though, you will have fuel for the fascists.

no harsher than you are being on Americans.....the issue is real on both sides of the pond and I don't see the point in 'measuring' who is worse than who.

[Pompey]

I can understand your point and I am obviously only speaking from a moderate white position, but I would say you are being a bit harsh on Europe there. I am not saying there is room for complacency, in parts of the UK the BNP are getting stronger and stronger and feeding off peoples fears of Immigration and crime, but the average British person recognises the significance of these extremists and will not be prepared to let them get too powerful.

all the time you have got Muslims blowing themselves up on buses though, you will have fuel for the fascists.

no harsher than you are being on Americans.....the issue is real on both sides of the pond and I don't see the point in 'measuring' who is worse than who.

I've got no desire to measure or compare. I would also say that we both have problems to sort out. In europe, we have all been at war with each other for the last two thousand years so we have a lot of issues to resolve.

The knuckle dragging Neo Nazi's are not something you see on every street corner and when you do see them there are more "Anti" than "Pro" demonstrators. I'm sure the same thing applies to the KKK. By the way, I just heard that, for the first time since it's inception in 1964 in San Quentin state prison, That it is no longer necessary to be white to join The Aryan Brotherhood. 

[kicker]

I just heard that, for the first time since it's inception in 1964 in San Quentin state prison, That it is no longer necessary to be white to join The Aryan Brotherhood. 

Good to know........my application should be processed more quickly now.

[Filho]

Funny you should say Brazil. My cousin (he's there right now) have been going to Brazil every year now for the past 5-6 years for the winter (3-4 months). The main reason he goes there other than he now has a house there is the fact that as he says "it the most comfortable place i've ever been.. he claims that white, black green blue.. all live better together, than he's ever experienced. Even better than the way he remembered it being in trinidad. He says that he does not get the feeling that he's black. or judged or identified by the colour of his skin or the curl of his hair. He referred to by his name and not his features (the black guy).

I'll have to ask him when we speak next if his judgment is based on his eyes being clouded by all the bubblenuts.. on the copa beaches.

From what I've read, it's more of a class thing in Brazil and also brothers and sisters of the same parents are sometimes classed in different racial categories.

As far as I know, in football terms, Italy,Spain and Argentina. As you can see these countries are very similar as most Argentines are of Spanish and Italian decent. Also these countries, although many attempts have been made to hide it, have had a signifcant black presence in the past.

nah horse...if you use your conscience, we all know that classism is just another term for racism. Look I am NOT the utmost authority on Brazil..I think Brazilians in general really cool and I love most of the culture.  I have a large crew of Brazilian friends, all of them happen to be white and very cool...According to them....lack of racism in Brazil is a joke. They saw it every day growing up in predomianantly white areas of Sao Paulo. Some parts in southern Brazil like Porto Alegre are almost all-white, and would like to keep it that way. Let's just say a lot of 'germans' fled there after the World war II. That is how the term 'Alemao' got popular in brazil. Literally it means german and is used today to describe anyone with blond hair...Brazil does little to recognize its indigenous people and most blacks deny even having any african heritage. The gov't systematically keeps poor people uneducated by charging a 'fee' to sit pre-university entrance exams....poor bright kids do not get to go to university in Brazil as you actually have to do the exam to qualify for a scholarship. Brazil was one of the last countries on the planet to outlaw slavery. Inevitably, when you meet black people in Brazil...they are most likely going to be poor.

Look, I am painting Brazil in a poor light to make a point. The truth is, in many ways Brazil is one of the least racist societies you could come across. Socially it is very comfortable for all races in most parts of the country. Pele is reverred as a God. Most people choose not to define themselves by their race, even those who are white...but in many ways that count..education, job prospects, places to live, access to capital, etc....racism is rife in Brazil. Ask Brazilians that have actually lived there..go visit Brazil carnival and witness the segregation yourself. I saw not one black person in a Salvador carnival band...they were all outside the ropes begging for an abada (costume shirt)...I was the only black  person I saw for 4 days who was not outside the ropes...I almost couldn't believe I was in Brazil. But I am not letting my personal experience dictate how anyone should view an entire nation...I just saying that element exists

[Filho]

I just heard that, for the first time since it's inception in 1964 in San Quentin state prison, That it is no longer necessary to be white to join The Aryan Brotherhood. 

Hahahah. Actually, it's no longer necessary to be white to have an Aryan Brotherhood 'roommate'. I guess there are times when segregation is a damn good thing 

[kicker]

post of the thread
I fully agree
just watch that movie "Crash"
as far as I can acertain, it is just the tip of the iceberg

that movie crash was very entertaining, but also not realistic. Racism is way more subtle than that,.......come better than that West Coast...you make an adult assessment based on a 2hr movie ?.......not even a documentary....... a movie.........steups !!!